Jordan, while the GOAT, was allowed to be more aggressive than anyone defensively...

[stalkerforlife]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively. Jordan would get up into players, bump them, push them with the forearm, etc.

Can you imagine if players were allowed to do that these days? Kobe loves contact, so he'd thrive. Some players HATE contact, though...and wilt under the pressure.

Jordan is the GOAT...but he was given allowances on defense that i've never seen before.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Err, Pippen, Payton, and Kobe especially were all allowed to be WAY more physical. Nice try, though.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Jordan got plenty of ref love.
That is what happens when you become a gigantic league shaking brand.

Kobe also got lots of love despite being less of a slasher then others.

Career FTA (playoffs)
------
Kobe : 7.4
Wade : 7.3

But all that aside most big stars get some ref love so there probably isn't much point to talking about it.

[stalkerforlife]

Err, Pippen, Payton, and Kobe especially were all allowed to be WAY more physical. Nice try, though.

So you didn't watch Jordan.

Understood.

[stalkerforlife]

Jordan got plenty of ref love.
That is what happens when you become a gigantic league shaking brand.

Kobe also got lots of love.

Career FTA (playoffs)
------
Kobe : 7.4
Wade : 7.3

But all that aside most big stars get some ref love so there probably isn't much point to talking about.

This has nothing to do with defensive aggressiveness.

[ShaqTwizzle]

...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively.
Then you didn't see the Bad Boy Pistons or Riley's Knicks. The whole league was more physical in Jordan's day.

[Dr Hawk]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively

Agree with the bolded

[DonDadda59]

More aggressive than the Bad Boys, Riley's Knicks? F*ck outta here. Jordan didn't get away with anything defensively that other players didn't. That was just the nature of the game back then.

[kennethgriffin]

its pretty obvious its easier to score in the nba from 2005 onward ...which gave perimeter players a boost


open court said it made steve nash mvp caliber ...that being said. i've always been the one to suggest that as long as we're discounting offensive accolades


can we not elevate defensive accolades at the same time for perimeter guys?


considering from that time since:

2006 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2007 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2008 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2009 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2010 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2011 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2012 2nd team all defense = kobe bryant



now sure the last 1 or 2 might have been off reputation. but still... you gotta hand it to the guy. he won 7 or so during the toughest era to play defense and not foul out

kobe has the best footwork in the game offensively. and defensively. he didn't need handchecking and to body a guy

[ShaqTwizzle]

now sure the last 1 or 2 might have been off reputation.

The last 3 were.
I also don't think he deserved the nod for 06 or 07 either.
His defensive effort was not so great those years.
Even Phil called him out for it during that span.

So that leaves just 08 & 09.

[kennethgriffin]

The last 3 were.
I also don't think he deserved the nod for 06 or 07 either.
His defensive effort was not so great those years.
Even Phil called him out for it during that span.

So that leaves just 08 & 09.


and there it is people ^




i can b*tt**** the sh*t out of anyones agenda with simple logic. once it means you gotta give kobe credit they back peddle or lose their sh*t


:oldlol:

i'm a god damn genius

[Kblaze8855]

So Jordan was a more physical defender than Karl Malone?

Jordan was no more physical than Derek Harper.

[ClipperRevival]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively. Jordan would get up into players, bump them, push them with the forearm, etc.

Can you imagine if players were allowed to do that these days? Kobe loves contact, so he'd thrive. Some players HATE contact, though...and wilt under the pressure.

Jordan is the GOAT...but he was given allowances on defense that i've never seen before.

It goes the other way around too. Defenders were allowed to be aggressive with him also. It was the era MJ played in.

All I know is that if I'm an athletic wing player, I would rather play in today's rules versus MJ's rules.

[Wade's Rings]

The last 3 were.
I also don't think he deserved the nod for 06 or 07 either.
His defensive effort was not so great those years.
Even Phil called him out for it during that span.

So that leaves just 08 & 09.

He didn't deserve '09 either.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Attributing his superior man defensive abilities to more liberal refereeing in his favor is disingenuous. And wreaks of agenda. Jordan was a super man defender than Kobe or LeBron not because of rules. But because he was had superior anticipation skills, fastest player I've seen laterally for a guy his size (GP amazing too), fast hands, long arms, more tenacious, more intelligent with angles or taking away strengths as well as exposing weakness. Above all else, had a higher motor and in comparison to Kobe gave much more consistent high energy effort on that end of the ball on a night to night and possession to possession basis. Kobe is a show pony, gets up for big names sometimes and conserves energy as well as gambles a lot. That whole Era was allowed more physical play. That isn't a foundation for an argument as why MJ is one of the greatest defenders ever.

[Wade's Rings]

Attributing his superior man defensive abilities to more liberal refereeing in his favor is disingenuous. And wreaks of agenda. Jordan was a super man defender than Kobe or LeBron not because of rules. But because he was had superior anticipation skills, fastest player I've seen laterally for a guy his size (GP amazing too), fast hands, long arms, more tenacious, more intelligent with angles or taking away strengths as well as exposing weakness. Above all else, had a higher motor and in comparison to Kobe gave much more consistent high energy effort on that end of the ball on a night to night and possession to possession basis. Kobe is a show pony, gets up for big names sometimes and conserves energyas well as gambles a lot. That whole Era was allowed more physical play. That isn't a foundation for an argument as why MJ is one of the greatest defenders ever.

This is so true especially for his later years. He will play good/great Defense on a Wade, CP3, Bron but outside of those regular season games his defensive effort wouldn't be the same.

[Mr Feeny]

It goes the other way around too. Defenders were allowed to be aggressive with him also. It was the era MJ played in.

All I know is that if I'm an athletic wing player, I would rather play in today's rules versus MJ's rules.

This. I'm not sure the brain dead dimwit who started this thread understands what he's saying:oldlol:

[SwayDizzle]

that's what makes a good defender tho. you have to be aggressive

[feyki]

So Jordan was a more physical defender than Karl Malone?

Jordan was no more physical than Derek Harper.
True . Also Stockton more physical defensive player than Jordan .

[97 bulls]

I think most guys covered my point. There were plenty of guys that were more physical than Jordan.

[poido123]

Back in the day, I'd never of imagined stupid threads made like this diminishing Jordan.


It's crazy how many can't appreciate a true champion. He didn't fold, he didn't flop, he measured up to pressure, he had a superhero aura about him, people genuinely didn't know what he would do from game to game.


It's sad, but I understand that those who are frustrated with Lebron's career would only throw hate a player who measured up when Lebron couldn't.


:confusedshrug:

[Straight_Ballin]

its pretty obvious its easier to score in the nba from 2005 onward ...which gave perimeter players a boost


open court said it made steve nash mvp caliber ...that being said. i've always been the one to suggest that as long as we're discounting offensive accolades


can we not elevate defensive accolades at the same time for perimeter guys?


considering from that time since:

2006 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2007 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2008 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2009 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2010 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2011 1st team all defense = kobe bryant
2012 2nd team all defense = kobe bryant



now sure the last 1 or 2 might have been off reputation. but still... you gotta hand it to the guy. he won 7 or so during the toughest era to play defense and not foul out

kobe has the best footwork in the game offensively. and defensively. he didn't need handchecking and to body a guy

Gotta hand it to Kobe... watching all that Jordan footage day in and day out and putting in work to mimic the GOAT. Such is the difference between a great defender and a player like LeBron who get's smoked by Jason Terry and outplayed by role players like Kwahi and Iggy who take his MVP away from him.

[ShawkFactory]

Back in the day, I'd never of imagined stupid threads made like this diminishing Jordan.


It's crazy how many can't appreciate a true champion. He didn't fold, he didn't flop, he measured up to pressure, he had a superhero aura about him, people genuinely didn't know what he would do from game to game.


It's sad, but I understand that those who are frustrated with Lebron's career would only throw hate a player who measured up when Lebron couldn't.


:confusedshrug:
It's also because Jordan fans throw hate at everyone. Just because we weren't born in a certain time and don't kneel down for him the way some of you do.

Jordan's the GOAT. We understand greatness. You guys were spoiled and don't...unless it's Jordan.

Only speaking for myself, but fans of Lebron/the modern game don't hate that Lebron didn't become as good as Jordan. They hate that Jordan fans rub their face in it as though they had something to do with it.

[Straight_Ballin]

It's also because Jordan fans throw hate at everyone. Just because we weren't born in a certain time and don't kneel down for him the way some of you do.

Jordan's the GOAT. We understand greatness. You guys were spoiled and don't...unless it's Jordan.

Only speaking for myself, but fans of Lebron/the modern game don't hate that Lebron didn't become as good as Jordan. They hate that Jordan fans rub their face in it as though they had something to do with it.

There is greatness and there is GOAT. Bran stans (on ISH, it's like 4 kids with multiple accounts) expect those who witnessed Jordan to just sit back while they prop up an inferior player like Lebron James and make him out to be better than he really is. It's a completely limited sample size that they have to compare to. How the fvck is some kid who's only seen Bron play in any position to even question someone who's seen Jordan, Kobe, and Bron play? :lol

[Goro]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively. Jordan would get up into players, bump them, push them with the forearm, etc.

Can you imagine if players were allowed to do that these days? Kobe loves contact, so he'd thrive. Some players HATE contact, though...and wilt under the pressure.

Jordan is the GOAT...but he was given allowances on defense that i've never seen before.

That was just 80s/90s defense, not specifically Jordan.

[Straight_Ballin]

That was just 80s/90s defense, not specifically Jordan.

No worries. Guy got banned for posting nonsense about Jordan.

[Hey Yo]

No worries. Guy got banned for posting nonsense about Jordan.
Like when you referred to Jordan's senior year @ NC?

:roll:

[Straight_Ballin]

Like when you referred to Jordan's senior year @ NC?

:roll:

:lol To be fair, it's not my fault that Jordan's dominance at NC felt like he put in 4 years rather than 3....

[ShawkFactory]

There is greatness and there is GOAT. Bran stans (on ISH, it's like 4 kids with multiple accounts) expect those who witnessed Jordan to just sit back while they prop up an inferior player like Lebron James and make him out to be better than he really is. It's a completely limited sample size that they have to compare to. How the fvck is some kid who's only seen Bron play in any position to even question someone who's seen Jordan, Kobe, and Bron play? :lol
It wasn't about questioning. I've seen both Kobe and Bron play basically their entire careers. Bron at his best was a better player in my opinion. Many other level-headed basketball fans share it. It's obviously splitting hairs...but yea.

People recognize MJ as the GOAT. Even Bran stans.

He retired 17 years ago basically. It's time to move on.

[poido123]

It's also because Jordan fans throw hate at everyone. Just because we weren't born in a certain time and don't kneel down for him the way some of you do.

Jordan's the GOAT. We understand greatness. You guys were spoiled and don't...unless it's Jordan.

Only speaking for myself, but fans of Lebron/the modern game don't hate that Lebron didn't become as good as Jordan. They hate that Jordan fans rub their face in it as though they had something to do with it.



Be honest, most of the hate comes from young, immature Bron stans who prop up their hero and claim GOAT status.


That's probably why Jordan stans get drawn into stupid discussions. That's where it starts and ends.

[Hey Yo]

:lol To be fair, it's not my fault that Jordan's dominance at NC felt like he put in 4 years rather than 3....
His dominance (with the big smooth) wasn't able to win another title after Worthy left.

[ShawkFactory]

Be honest, most of the hate comes from young, immature Bron stans who prop up their hero and claim GOAT status.


That's probably why Jordan stans get drawn into stupid discussions. That's where it starts and ends.
Aren't Jordan stans, being adults...supposed to be the adults?

Instead they fight back against teenagers with insecurity and hatred. Why does it make someone so mad that a 15 year old kid who has only seen Lebron thinks that's he the best thing ever?

[poido123]

Aren't Jordan stans, being adults...supposed to be the adults?

Instead they fight back against teenagers with insecurity and hatred. Why does it make someone so mad that a 15 year old kid who has only seen Lebron thinks that's he the best thing ever?



Not insecurity, just a strong dislike for the little vermin.


This is a pretty good site, take away the stupid bait threads made by these young kids/Lebron stans which draw Jordan fans into flaming the shit out of them for it.


You have it totally wrong. 3ball is probably the only insecure one(still flames the shit out of the kids anyway), but the rest of Jordan fans just jump on stupidity. Don't mistake that for insecurity, just fed up with dumb fcks.

[ShawkFactory]

Not insecurity, just a strong dislike for the little vermin.


This is a pretty good site, take away the stupid bait threads made by these young kids/Lebron stans which draw Jordan fans into flaming the shit out of them for it.


You have it totally wrong. 3ball is probably the only insecure one(still flames the shit out of the kids anyway), but the rest of Jordan fans just jump on stupidity. Don't mistake that for insecurity, just fed up with dumb fcks.
That one other dude is 3ball level of insecurity. You know who I'm referring to probably?

But I agree. It's like two Jordan fans that are the problem. And there's like two Bron fans that are the problem. Both are bad

[poido123]

That one other dude is 3ball level of insecurity. You know who I'm referring to probably?

But I agree. It's like two Jordan fans that are the problem. And there's like two Bron fans that are the problem. Both are bad



Can you jog my memory on that other Jordan fan?


If the site took away 2 maybe 3 certain posters, the traffic would drop drastically and that means less money for Jeff.

It's as simple as that.

[Straight_Ballin]

Aren't Jordan stans, being adults...supposed to be the adults?

Instead they fight back against teenagers with insecurity and hatred. Why does it make someone so mad that a 15 year old kid who has only seen Lebron thinks that's he the best thing ever?

With insecurity? :lol No one is insecure when it comes to educating the bran stans on here that have only been on ISH for 2 years and have 70,000+ posts spread out between 5+ accounts because they are so insecure about being labeled a loser if all 70,000+ posts were viewable on the same account in said 2 year span. The threads where they talk to themselves on their different accounts are quite comical. Obviously they have no clue what they are doing in real life (as evidenced by high post count) so getting mentored on here by the adults is their only opportunity to actually learn something.

[poido123]

His dominance (with the big smooth) wasn't able to win another title after Worthy left.


TBF, every player who's ever played basketball has had one key guy alongside them to carry out success.

You can't do it alone, its a team game.

[ShawkFactory]

With insecurity? :lol No one is insecure when it comes to educating the bran stans on here that have only been on ISH for 2 years and have 70,000+ posts spread out between 5+ accounts because they are so insecure about being labeled a loser if all 70,000+ posts were viewable on the same account in said 2 year span. The threads where they talk to themselves on their different accounts are quite comical. Obviously they have no clue what they are doing in real life (as evidenced by high post count) so getting mentored on here by the adults is their only opportunity to actually learn something.
^

That dude :lol

I don't necessarily want it to go away but it's still annoying.

[Straight_Ballin]

TBF, every player who's ever played basketball has had one key guy alongside them to carry out success.

You can't do it alone, its a team game.

Kids will whine about Pippen being an all star in 91 even though he wasn't selected to play in the all star game. It burns their soul that Jordan can say that he technically won it all without having a single team mate play in the all star game that year.

[Straight_Ballin]

^

That dude :lol

I don't necessarily want it to go away but it's still annoying.

You think 35,000 posts per year of which 99% are about Lebron James shouldn't go away? You think a kid having conversations with himself on 5 accounts is healthy? Jeff looks at the IP addresses of these kids and sees that the user names are the same IP while logged on at the same time and just shakes his head and laughs like I do. I mean damn you got one poster writing 1500 essays about lebron. :lol

[ShawkFactory]

You think 35,000 posts per year of which 99% are about Lebron James shouldn't go away? You think a kid having conversations with himself on 5 accounts is healthy? Jeff looks at the IP addresses of these kids and sees that the user names are the same IP while logged on at the same time and just shakes his head and laughs like I do. I mean damn you got one poster writing 1500 essays about lebron. :lol
1500 essays about Lebron? 3ball?

[Mr Feeny]

His dominance (with the big smooth) wasn't able to win another title after Worthy left.

You and I both know that your don't win titles singlehandedly. Otherwise, Kobe fans' 5>2 arguments would have merit. Be consistent.

[Mr Feeny]

1500 essays about Lebron? 3ball?

Pauk, I think.

[Mr Feeny]

It wasn't about questioning. I've seen both Kobe and Bron play basically their entire careers. Bron at his best was a better player in my opinion. Many other level-headed basketball fans share it. It's obviously splitting hairs...but yea.

People recognize MJ as the GOAT. Even Bran stans.

He retired 17 years ago basically. It's time to move on.


This is fair and I think most people share that view. Just enjoy the greatest of this generation (Lebron) without denigrating the greatest players of all time. Let's see where Lebron ends up when it's all said and done; this will be interesting... If he can get one or two more rings as lead dog while being as dominant as he's been, then he's challenging MJ for the GOAT title. If not, he'll settle for top 5 all time. Let's see how this all plays out.

[julizaver]

Did any of you kids watch prime Jordan? I have NEVER seen a player in NBA history allowed to be so aggressive defensively. Jordan would get up into players, bump them, push them with the forearm, etc.

Can you imagine if players were allowed to do that these days? Kobe loves contact, so he'd thrive. Some players HATE contact, though...and wilt under the pressure.

Jordan is the GOAT...but he was given allowances on defense that i've never seen before.

Did you ever watch MJ prior to 1998 ?

He could get some refferee love as it is in all sports when you are the best, but I doubted that aggressive claim.

[ClipperRevival]

What annoys me with the some of the youngsters is that they bash MJ even though they never saw him play. Like when I was growing up, people were comparing MJ to Dr. J. But at some point, most people agreed that MJ had surpassed Dr. J and that MJ was clearly the superior player. And that was accepted as fact. Most people still regard MJ as the clear GOAT. That's not by accident. It is warranted. Yet, some of these youngster don't pay attention to that. That's disrespectful.

Same with Bird and Magic. Most people had them ahead of MJ before MJ started winning rings. But as MJ started to win rings AND put up all-time great individual numbers, the world pretty much accepted the fact that MJ had also passed them by.

It's the same with LeBron. I know it's easy for a 15 year old to see LeBron and think, "Wow, how could anyone have been better than THIS guy?" But that's just ignorance of not watching MJ live. If they had, they would just know the deal. So the ignorance of not watching MJ and disrespecting him is what bothers me.

[ClipperRevival]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/03/11/how-new-billionaire-michael-jordan-earned-100-million-in-2014/

There's a reason why MJ still makes close to $100 million per year. It's because he resonated with the world. People realized what they were watching. Possibly the best basketball player we will ever see in human history. The hang time, the tongue, the baggy shorts, the dunks, the championships, the will, the killer instinct, etc. It resonated with fans. You don't make that much by being fake. Everything about MJ was legit. Including his early failures in the playoffs. It made him more human. People saw that he had climbed a mountain. Winning didn't come easy to him. He had to earn it. People can relate to struggling and working hard to earn something.

[90sgoat]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/03/11/how-new-billionaire-michael-jordan-earned-100-million-in-2014/

There's a reason why MJ still makes close to $100 million per year. It's because he resonated with the world. People realized what they were watching. Possibly the best basketball player we will ever see in human history. The hang time, the tongue, the baggy shorts, the dunks, the championships, the will, the killer instinct, etc. It resonated with fans. You don't make that much by being fake. Everything about MJ was legit. Including his early failures in the playoffs. It made him more human. People saw that he had climbed a mountain. Winning didn't come easy to him. He had to earn it. People can relate to struggling and working hard to earn something.

Exactly, these fools don't understand it's likely there will NEVER be another Michael Jordan.

There might be someone like Shaq, someone very dominant, but a player like MJ who had a career like that probably not.

Jordan is the Beatles, Muhammed Ali, Shigeru Miyamoto, Mozart, Bobby Fisher.

He transcends his niche, everyone knows who Michael Jordan is. Everyone. And in the 90s he was a huge pop idol, not just a basketball player.

That's because humans fall in awe when they see genius, that most rare of human qualities, which we are lucky to witness and appreciate once in a generation.

Make no mistake Michael Jordan is a genius in his field. A once in a lifetime. There was no second Muhammed Ali and there will be no second Michael Jordan.

[livinglegend]

He is not the GOAT.

/thread

[Paul George 24]

He is not the GOAT.

/thread
leflop ain't top 15