How do you pay for Free College??

[Patrick Chewing]

Maybe I misunderstood some of the ideas of the Democratic candidates, but I could have sworn they said something about making college free for all students. Essentially, no more college tuition.

If this is the case, and I did hear correctly, how is this then paid for? Where does the money come from to pay the book companies and distributors, the professors, the janitorial staff, the security guards, the administrative staff, etc.??

Can one of the fine, young, educated Liberals on this board please explain it to me. I want to learn. I want to know how. I want free stuff.

God Bless.

[Nick Young]

It's free, you don't have to pay for it! The political revolution is coming, you'll see!

[NumberSix]

If the government got out of the student loan business, college would be affordable just like it was before the government got into it.

[Patrick Chewing]

It's free, you don't have to pay for it! The political revolution is coming, you'll see!


It sounds like hocus pocus magic to me. And I love magic! One minute you have a school loan for $25000.00 and the next minute, *poof* it's gone!

[dkmwise]

"They just write it off"
- Kramer

[DeuceWallaces]

How is high school free?

[Nick Young]

How is high school free?
Public high schools are shit, especially in LA.

[dkmwise]

If the government got out of the student loan business, college would be affordable just like it was before the government got into it.

:applause: :applause: :applause:



Such a scam going on between colleges and democrats. Non-profit organizations my ass

[Patrick Chewing]

How is high school free?


Magic? Explain it to me, Norman.

[knickballer]

They usually mean public colleges that are already funded partially by the state. Public Universities are relatively cheap compared to Private and I think most of the student debt comes from the private universities. I do agree that students going to public schools should be helped.

But that being said at the end of the day the students are part of the problem as well. If you think going to a private university costing nearly $30k a semester while you don't have the means to pay it off is a good idea then I don't know what to tell you... You exactly wouldn't buy a brand new mercedes benz if you worked a part time minimum wage job. People need more common sense.

[bladefd]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Hundreds of trillions dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol

edit: *Sorry, not several hundred trillion are traded yearly but HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS yearly on wall street. .01% tax of that would be enough in theory to pay for the colleges. If the transactions get you that much through speculative tax, I'm not sure why you even need the states to fund 1/3 of it. The speculative tax can pay the $300 billion for public colleges off the bat. I guess they want a remainder to be used elsewhere - why not directly work on bringing down the international debt? Just my opinion :P

[DonDadda59]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Several hundred trillion dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol

Hocus Pocus. Now back to real business- the forced removal of 20 million undocumented people and the building of the great wall of America, paid for by Mexico. :rockon:

[TripleA]

Get off your lazy asses and get a job that's how you pay for college.
Damn liberals.

[Jameerthefear]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Hundreds of trillions dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol
This was actually a really good rundown. Future repped.

[Akrazotile]

Retard mentality is retarded.

Every person doesn't need to go to college. You need a degree to be a plumber? A car salesman? A mail carrier? A pre-school teacher? A police officer? A limmo driver? A telemarketer?

There are MILLIONS of job positions in America that you can make a living off of that DO NOT require a college education. Everyone can't be a lawyer or a software engineer. MOST people simply do not need a college 'education.'

Why would we gin up a bunch of extra tax revenue to send kids to college so they can party for four years and take bullshit classes which do nothing for them except indoctrinate them into liberal- oh. I see.

Some of the degree programs I hear of being offered these days are hilarious. Shit has become a legit idiocracy.

[Akrazotile]

This is about liberal denial of the inherent talent gap among humans.

"If only everyone went to college, everyone would make the same money and we'd have ut0piA!"


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


Anything to deny the truth about evolution.

[LikeABosh]

If you go to some private university and get some BS liberal arts degree, then find yourself 100k in debt and can't get a job, thats on you. Go to an instate, public school and major in something worth a damn. That's what I did. Through a few scholarships, federal financial aid and working part time I graduate with <5k in debt. So much of this student loan debt "crisis" is because of the situation described above. If you can't get the scholarships, can't get a worthwhile degree, cant work part time, maybe college just isnt for you. This free college for everyone is such a joke

[DeuceWallaces]

Retard mentality is retarded.

Every person doesn't need to go to college. You need a degree to be a plumber? A car salesman? A mail carrier? A pre-school teacher? A police officer? A limmo driver? A telemarketer?

There are MILLIONS of job positions in America that you can make a living off of that DO NOT require a college education. Everyone can't be a lawyer or a software engineer. MOST people simply do not need a college 'education.'

Why would we gin up a bunch of extra tax revenue to send kids to college so they can party for four years and take bullshit classes which do nothing for them except indoctrinate them into liberal- oh. I see.

Some of the degree programs I hear of being offered these days are hilarious. Shit has become a legit idiocracy.

You could say the same for high school.

I mean, if you look at the past 12 years of your adult life I think it's safe to say that a 6th grade education would have sufficed. Think of all the money you could have saved tax payers by dropping out before middle school.

[Akrazotile]

You could say the same for high school.

I mean, if you look at the past 12 years of your adult life I think it's safe to say that a 6th grade education would have sufficed. Think of all the money you could have saved tax payers by dropping out before middle school.


Yet I've gotten laid more than you by a factor of a dozen.

Life just aint fair.

[TripleA]

Yet I've gotten laid more than you by a factor of a dozen.

Life just aint fair.

Stay mad liberalism is taking over. Their is nothing you can do about it.
:lebroncry: When conservatives change their ways the sooner we can start making bigger changes.

[NumberSix]

Stay mad liberalism is taking over. Their is nothing you can do about it.
:lebroncry: When conservatives change their ways the sooner we can start making bigger changes.
Except that it isn't. Progressivism is "taking over". Progressivism isn't liberal.

[bladefd]

Retard mentality is retarded.

Every person doesn't need to go to college. You need a degree to be a plumber? A car salesman? A mail carrier? A pre-school teacher? A police officer? A limmo driver? A telemarketer?

There are MILLIONS of job positions in America that you can make a living off of that DO NOT require a college education. Everyone can't be a lawyer or a software engineer. MOST people simply do not need a college 'education.'

Why would we gin up a bunch of extra tax revenue to send kids to college so they can party for four years and take bullshit classes which do nothing for them except indoctrinate them into liberal- oh. I see.

Some of the degree programs I hear of being offered these days are hilarious. Shit has become a legit idiocracy.

You are right that many jobs can be done without needing college education, but education is not just about getting a job. It's about the journey of learning how to learn and having a better educated society as a result.

Educated people, on average, do less crimes than those with no education, and they also tend to make better decisions. Yes, there are anomalies like Steve Jobs, but look, Steve Jobs enjoyed learning. He did not get college degree, but he was a lifelong learner & proponent of education reform (he did go to college for a bit before dropping out bc he had a business idea that turned into Apple).

More educated society is better for everyone. Of course, you don't have to attend if you don't want to. You can continue to wash windows and sweep the floor, but give those that are seeking better jobs a chance to grasp their dreams. We can have more innovation, ideas, inspiration if more people are educated.

[Nick Young]

You are right that many jobs can be done without needing college education, but education is not just about getting a job. It's about the journey of learning how to learn and having a better educated society as a result.

Educated people, on average, do less crimes than those with no education, and they also tend to make better decisions. Yes, there are anomalies like Steve Jobs, but look, Steve Jobs enjoyed learning. He did not get college degree, but he was a lifelong learner & proponent of education reform (he did go to college for a bit before dropping out).

More educated society is better for everyone. Of course, you don't have to attend if you don't want to. You can continue to wash windows and sweep the floor, but give those that are seeking better jobs a chance to grasp their dreams. We can have more innovation, ideas, inspiration if more people are educated.
This is the kind of myth bullshit they tell kids to get them to take out massive government loans.

"Get a degwee, all of youw wildest dweams will come twue!":hammerhead:

Also, good job looking down your elitist nose at everyone who doesn't have a university degree. How "liberal", "tolerant" and "accepting" of you.

[gigantes]

excellent post, bladefd. future repped as well. :cheers:


-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.
it really is a crippling problem. altho from the rundown i read earlier, even with the lowered interest, a lot of people are still going to owe a lot of money. there will be no debt forgiveness. still, something better than nothing.



Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol
also from what i read, students will still have to pay room & board where applicable. that's a lot right there, meaning plenty of folks still living with the folks, commuting.

also i'm not 100%... but it sounds like with sanders' plan you still don't get to loaf your way through college for free. meaning there will be standards to meet and a big black boot for the slackers.

[dkmwise]

This is the kind of myth bullshit they tell kids to get them to take out massive government loans.

"Get a degwee, all of youw wildest dweams will come twue!":hammerhead:

Also, good job looking down your elitist nose at everyone who doesn't have a university degree. How "liberal", "tolerant" and "accepting" of you.

So, if you're 18 and go off to a 4 year college, start living on your own, participate in something like a team sport or student government, take some classes in accounting, science, literature, etc, maybe do a few internships, how do you not come out of that for the better?

I understand a traditional degree is not necessary for everyone and I'm not saying everyone needs one, however the experience is beneficial in many ways.

Student loans aside, there is nothing you can do in life where you would look back and say man, I'm really so much worse off for getting that bachelors degree.

[Nick Young]

So, if you're 18 and go off to a 4 year college, start living on your own, participate in something like a team sport or student government, take some classes in accounting, science, literature, etc, maybe do a few internships, how do you not come out of that for the better?

I understand a traditional degree is not necessary for everyone and I'm not saying everyone needs one, however the experience is beneficial in many ways.

Student loans aside, there is nothing you can do in life where you would look back and say man, I'm really so much worse off for getting that bachelors degree.
There are a lot of popular degrees right now where people will look back and say that.

Also, saying things like "student loans aside" makes it seem like you're a rich person who never had to deal with student loans and has no understanding of how much student loans are screwing some people over.

[Akrazotile]

You are right that many jobs can be done without needing college education, but education is not just about getting a job. It's about the journey of learning how to learn and having a better educated society as a result.

Educated people, on average, do less crimes than those with no education, and they also tend to make better decisions. Yes, there are anomalies like Steve Jobs, but look, Steve Jobs enjoyed learning. He did not get college degree, but he was a lifelong learner & proponent of education reform (he did go to college for a bit before dropping out bc he had a business idea that turned into Apple).

More educated society is better for everyone. Of course, you don't have to attend if you don't want to. You can continue to wash windows and sweep the floor, but give those that are seeking better jobs a chance to grasp their dreams. We can have more innovation, ideas, inspiration if more people are educated.


College doesnt educate people. It's a business, handing out homework and tests to justify the grades they give people, and sheepl mindlessly pay for this because a degree is the social substitute for initiative, leadership, and true learning which are qualities most dont possess.

You think Pablo who was in a high school gang, father an alcoholic, grew up poor and with no supervision is gonna commit less crime bc school is 'free?' Smh. Look at the SEC football thugs. Every year a bunch of em are on scholarship and get opped for armed robbery :facepalm

You are idealizing college. College doesnt make anyone into anythin. Professors are tenured and lazy, students are average, it's not a place of high motivation except for those who find that motivation THEMSELVES. And I'm all for giving high achievers with a clear academic purpose scholarship. But average joe does not need to go to college and its a waste of his OWN time, let alone taxpayer dollar.

[Akrazotile]

So, if you're 18 and go off to a 4 year college, start living on your own, participate in something like a team sport or student government, take some classes in accounting, science, literature, etc, maybe do a few internships, how do you not come out of that for the better?

I understand a traditional degree is not necessary for everyone and I'm not saying everyone needs one, however the experience is beneficial in many ways.

Student loans aside, there is nothing you can do in life where you would look back and say man, I'm really so much worse off for getting that bachelors degree.


Which of these do yo need to be a college student to do? You wanna learn about literature and history and science?

Read.

[dkmwise]

There are a lot of popular degrees right now where people will look back and say that.

Also, saying things like "student loans aside" makes it seem like you're a rich person who never had to deal with student loans and has no understanding of how much student loans are screwing some people over.

:hammerhead:

People may wish they had picked a better major for sure, but even learning something with little transferable skill to real life won't hurt you, and most schools make you take at least some classes in math, science, etc.

Actually far from Rich, thanks though. I worked two jobs while in college and still had to take out loans and then cosigned on my wife's loans because her parents didn't help her out with a single dollar for school.

[Nick Young]

College doesnt educate people. It's a business, handing out homework and tests to justify the grades they give people, and sheepl mindlessly pay for this because a degree is the social substitute for initiative, leadership, and true learning which are qualities most dont possess.



it's not a place of high motivation except for those who find that motivation THEMSELVES
Yep:applause:

Unless you are studying a STEM field or Law, your degree is largely pointless and a waste of money and resources.

[Nick Young]

:hammerhead:

People may wish they had picked a better major for sure, but even learning something with little transferable skill to real life won't hurt you, and most schools make you take at least some classes in math, science, etc.

Actually far from Rich, thanks though. I worked two jobs while in college and still had to take out loans and then cosigned on my wife's loans because her parents didn't help her out with a single dollar for school.
that was quite dumb of you. Good luck with that.

[dkmwise]

College doesnt educate people. It's a business, handing out homework and tests to justify the grades they give people, and sheepl mindlessly pay for this because a degree is the social substitute for initiative, leadership, and true learning which are qualities most dont possess.

You think Pablo who was in a high school gang, father an alcoholic, grew up poor and with no supervision is gonna commit less crime bc school is 'free?' Smh. Look at the SEC football thugs. Every year a bunch of em are on scholarship and get opped for armed robbery :facepalm

You are idealizing college. College doesnt make anyone into anythin. Professors are tenured and lazy, students are average, it's not a place of high motivation except for those who find that motivation THEMSELVES. And I'm all for giving high achievers with a clear academic purpose scholarship. But average joe does not need to go to college and its a waste of his OWN time, let alone taxpayer dollar.

Man, you got some serious hate for college. Trying to get a handle on the nonsense youre saying, so not trying to be rude or say as a negative but are you just mad you didn't get to go to college or something?

College is a business, 100% agree, that doesn't mean it can't also educate people

[Nanners]

gotta love seeing these two jabronies who flunked out saying that college is a scam and waste of time :oldlol:

[dkmwise]

that was quite dumb of you. Good luck with that.

Yes, now that she has her masters and a good job making good money because of it I am really regretting the decision

[Nick Young]

gotta love seeing these two jabronies who flunked out saying that college is a scam and waste of time :oldlol:
I graduated in 3 years though. For me, it wasn't a scam, because I am self motivated and realized early on in second year I would be a failure if I didn't work my ass off, but I saw how it was scamming a majority of the students in my uni who had no motivation, and expected for jobs to just appear upon doorsteps upon graduating. I even worked full-time at my university the year after graduating, and saw first hand in several board meetings and reports how ****ed up the UK education system is. For example, many UK universities WANT students to fail, so that they get the full 7 years of student loan payments from the british government from each student.

Yes, in the UK there are several universities who purposefully accept students incapable of passing a degree course, purposefully provide inadequate teaching, and overwork the staff so they are unmotivated to help the students. Students who fail and retake years means more money for the uni. The UK government has incentivized universities to fail their students.

I guess I am not as familiar with the US education system as I am with the UK system but from what I'm reading, the whole degree mill phenomenon is happening there too.

[bladefd]

excellent post, bladefd. future repped as well. :cheers:

it really is a crippling problem. altho from the rundown i read earlier, even with the lowered interest, a lot of people are still going to owe a lot of money. there will be no debt forgiveness. still, something better than nothing.

also from what i read, students will still have to pay room & board where applicable. that's a lot right there, meaning plenty of folks still living with the folks, commuting.

also i'm not 100%... but it sounds like with sanders' plan you still don't get to loaf your way through college for free. meaning there will be standards to meet and a big black boot for the slackers.

Yeah, you have to meet a certain minimum gpa/grades or they can throw you out the door. A few fools in this thread said students will just party. Sure, you can party, but if your grades are not good, you're out the door.

It already is that way in many colleges. My cousin got thrown out of engineering school for partying/failing. He had to go to community college for a year, got his life in order & GPA high, and state college gave him a 2nd chance after 1yr at community college (I think they put him on probation to keep an eye on his grades). He graduated with engineering degree and makes over $150k.

[Nanners]

I graduated in 3 years though. For me, it wasn't a scam, but I saw how it was scamming a majority of the students in my uni who had no motivation, and expected for jobs to just appear upon doorsteps without graduating. I even worked at my university the year after graduating, and saw first hand how ****ed up the UK education system is. For example, many UK universities WANT students to fail, so that they get the full 7 years of student loan payments from the british government from each student.

Yes, in the UK there are several universities who purposefully provide inadequate teaching, and overwork the staff, as students who fail and retake years means more money for the uni.

I guess I am not as familiar with the US education system as I am with the UK system but from what I'm reading, the whole degree mill phenomenon is happening there too.

yeah sure, 9erempire graduated too :oldlol:

just last year you were posting about how proud you were of the logic bombs you had been dropping on the feminists in your freshman womens studies classes.

also, werent you the person who posted a year or two ago about how architecture classes were too hard so you were dropping out to go to art school? or do i have you confused with someone else?

[Akrazotile]

Man, you got some serious hate for college. Trying to get a handle on the nonsense youre saying, so not trying to be rude or say as a negative but are you just mad you didn't get to go to college or something?

College is a business, 100% agree, that doesn't mean it can't also educate people


Reason, logic, and pragmatism are always deemed 'hate' by people with a predetermined delusion they desperately wish to stick to.

I'm sorry if you want to believe this silly liberal ideal that college, rather than personal initiative, is what makes a person educated. Just keep pumpin out those excuses. It is what it is.

[bladefd]

This is the kind of myth bullshit they tell kids to get them to take out massive government loans.

"Get a degwee, all of youw wildest dweams will come twue!":hammerhead:

Also, good job looking down your elitist nose at everyone who doesn't have a university degree. How "liberal", "tolerant" and "accepting" of you.

So, are we better off having only the rich educated and everyone else just doing jobs that require no degree for their entire life? Sounds like oligarchy.

So tell me - how should somebody's dreams come true with no college education to speak of? Working at McDonalds their whole life and getting a promotion from 30k a year to 40k after 30 years of work? Tell me, genius.

[BasedTom]

nothing in this world is free. The money is coming from somewhere

I do agree, however, that the current situation where you're virtually guaranteed to force yourself into student debts (and paying off those debts decades later) really needs to be examined.

[Akrazotile]

gotta love seeing these two jabronies who flunked out saying that college is a scam and waste of time :oldlol:


Note that us two jabronies are two of the most creative, opinionated, and well rounded posters here. College just doesnt offer anything for alphas.

[Nick Young]

yeah sure, 9erempire graduated too :oldlol:

just last year you were posting about how proud you were of the logic bombs you had been dropping on the feminists in your freshman womens studies classes.

also, werent you the person who posted about how architecture classes were too hard so you were dropping out to go to art school? or do i have you confused with someone else.
I think that was about 3-4 years ago now. It was a second year course called some shit like "Understanding Media" but it was really women's studies feminist brainwash class. I switched out of architecture I believe 4-5 years ago now. Time flies by brah.

Architecture classes were not too hard but I had no talent for architecture. I did it for 2 years, 1 year in America, 1 year in the UK, then switched majors. I could have forced my way through and passed, but I wouldn't have been a very good architect by the end of it. Also, realistically I don't think I could have afforded the 7 years of education required to be an architect in the UK. Yes, I switched to an art degree, but unlike most, I am making a living with art. I am only doing this because I busted my ass, and not ignoring the business side of art. My art school teachers meanwhile were actively teaching students that they should ignore the business side of things and focus "on the art".

Art school taught that arty farty conceptual theory>making art that people want, and perfecting technique. I am only able to work as an artist because I realized the things university was teaching me were bullshit, so I spent all my free time improving my skill and technique, and learning how to sell my work. I succeeded in spite of my university degree, not because of it.

My professors were actively telling students with strong technique that they sucked, and encouraged lazy conceptualists who half-assed everything. I am glad that time has shown my tutors were morons, and I was right to ignore them. The kid who my tutors were calling a genius for 3 years now works as a window cleaner. The girl with amazing technique who my teachers constantly said was shit now works for Blizzard and League of Legends doing concept art. Had I followed what my university degree leaders wanted me to do, I would have become an unemployable waste man too.

I do not wish to provide my details about what I do, as e-stalkers have struck before. You are one of them, as you very well know.

Upon graduating, I had a job at my university which involved sitting in on board of governor meetings, HR meetings, ethics and environment meetings, vice chancellors office meetings, and reading reports. I could tell that my uni and the UK education system was phucked up, but having this job confirmed it.

I would politely ask all to not e-stalk me, thanks brahs. I am by no means a master at what I do, but atleast I am making a humble living in the field that I got a degree in. That doesn't mean like I'm going to pretend that my liberal arts degree has been useful. I do wish I had done an apprenticeship instead.

[falc39]

:hammerhead:

People may wish they had picked a better major for sure, but even learning something with little transferable skill to real life won't hurt you, and most schools make you take at least some classes in math, science, etc.


Actually it can hurt you.. Not only does it cost money but it also cost time. Now you have a bunch of people still living with their parents in their late 20s and early 30s. They prob thought they had all the time in the world. Then life hits and they realize they want to marry, have a family, buy a house, etc... Well you can't say their decision didn't hurt them. It did.

[gigantes]

it's not a place of high motivation except for those who find that motivation THEMSELVES
as usual with black-or-white statements, there is some truth to that and some falseness.


no. i think the schooling process is a test and a shaper of lives... a generally positive experience and motivator in and of itself. it has negatives and can be harmful to an extent, but that's not the overall point.

family, genetics, community, environment... all parts of the recipe.

[bladefd]

College doesnt educate people. It's a business, handing out homework and tests to justify the grades they give people, and sheepl mindlessly pay for this because a degree is the social substitute for initiative, leadership, and true learning which are qualities most dont possess.

You are idealizing college. College doesnt make anyone into anythin. Professors are tenured and lazy, students are average, it's not a place of high motivation except for those who find that motivation THEMSELVES. And I'm all for giving high achievers with a clear academic purpose scholarship. But average joe does not need to go to college and its a waste of his OWN time, let alone taxpayer dollar.

Let me ask you something. Are you educated? What do you do for a living?

Second paragraph- the average joe doesn't have to go to college. Nobody is forcing them. They have a right to think for themselves - if he thinks it's a waste of his time then don't go to college! As I said, they can wash the window & sweep the floor if they wish for their whole life. It's not your job to decide for them. If they decide to fail bc they're too busy partying, they will be kicked out of college.

College helps give you knowledge & teaches you how to learn - what you do with the knowledge is your business. Find motivation yourself to put what you learned to use.

[Akrazotile]

Let me ask you something. Are you educated? What do you do for a living?

1. More than the average person, I suspect.
2. Test out pharmaceutical drugs, philosophize on the internet and make Youtube videos.


Second paragraph- the average joe doesn't have to go to college. Nobody is forcing them. They have a right to think for themselves - if he thinks it's a waste of his time then don't go to college! As I said, they can wash the window & sweep the floor if they wish for their whole life. It's not your job to decide for them. If they decide to fail bc they're too busy partying, they will be kicked out of college.

College helps give you knowledge & teaches you how to learn - what you do with the knowledge is your business. Find motivation yourself to put what you learned to use.


And if they WANT to go, they can pay for it. There are already subsidies and loans available. Making it completely free will just encourageall those young kids who shouldnt be going, to go for the wrong reasons; social pressure, their friends are going, they think college makes millionaires out of C students etc.

It's not taxpayer responsibility to pay for every kid to waste time in college. There is a REASON Germany sends like 30% of graduates to college and therest move on to vocation. Germany knows what its doing. Ofc these days theyre feeling the pressure of widespread liberal idealism that infects young and irrational minds. But for the vast majority of the last 30 years Germany has had no minimum wage and sends just a fraction of grads to college. And theyre the strngest economy in Europe. Liberal American rhetoric seems to imply these kinds of policies lead to mass economic depression and destitution. But evidently... It doesnt.

"Education" is a political buzzword used as something easy and "noble" that the masses can repeat to feel involved in political issues.

True facts, brother. It is what it is.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Advice to the youth of ISH

Study Finance at a private university

[Patrick Chewing]

nothing in this world is free. The money is coming from somewhere

I do agree, however, that the current situation where you're virtually guaranteed to force yourself into student debts (and paying off those debts decades later) really needs to be examined.

Agree. But if you're going to try and sell Free College as an additional tax, good luck trying to sell that to the American people. That's lunacy. College should not be treated as a right. I don't care what other countries do. College should be a privilege for those with the abilities and desire. Some schools are ripping people off no doubt though.

[bladefd]

And if they WANT to go, they can pay for it. There are already subsidies and loans available. Making it completely free will just encourageall those young kids who shouldnt be going, to go for the wrong reasons; social pressure, their friends are going, they think college makes millionaires out of C students etc.

Yeah, loans where the government makes big bucks off through very high interest rates. Private loans tend to be even worse. Only people that can afford it are in decent financial situation going in. Unless if you have top-notch grades but even scholarships are tough to get.

I can tell you that the average person comes out of college more improved than they went in. As I said, what they do with the knowledge is up to those individuals.


It's not taxpayer responsibility to pay for every kid to waste time in college. There is a REASON Germany sends like 30% of graduates to college and therest move on to vocation. Germany knows what its doing. Ofc these days theyre feeling the pressure of widespread liberal idealism that infects young and irrational minds. But for the vast majority of the last 30 years Germany has had no minimum wage and sends just a fraction of grads to college. And theyre the strngest economy in Europe. Liberal American rhetoric seems to imply these kinds of policies lead to mass economic depression and destitution. But evidently... It doesnt.

-waste time in college? Did you go to college at all?
-You want vocational school? Ok, lets get that for everyone through the speculation tax on wall street. Rather than .01, lets make it .005.. Bachelors degree for in-state might cost $50,000 through public college while vocational school might be $30,000. What, you thought vocational school was free? :oldlol:
-Is there any particular reason why every single post of yours becomes an attack on somebody else? Usually, it is an attack on the generalized term of "liberals." I'm curious, what do you define 'liberal' as? Is it everyone that doesn't agree with you?

Anyways, it's important to choose the right field. I have bachelors in IT so I chose the right field, but I knew a few psychology majors that are very limited when it comes to jobs. Psychology is fine as a minor or if you're doing double-major with something else, but not as the primary major.

[Goro]

Maybe I misunderstood some of the ideas of the Democratic candidates, but I could have sworn they said something about making college free for all students. Essentially, no more college tuition.

If this is the case, and I did hear correctly, how is this then paid for? Where does the money come from to pay the book companies and distributors, the professors, the janitorial staff, the security guards, the administrative staff, etc.??

Can one of the fine, young, educated Liberals on this board please explain it to me. I want to learn. I want to know how. I want free stuff.

God Bless.

How do you expect to be taken seriously in political debates if you can't understand this very basic concept. Dems want free public college (not private) which would be paid for by increases in taxes.

[Goro]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Hundreds of trillions dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol

edit: *Sorry, not several hundred trillion are traded yearly but HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS yearly on wall street. .01% tax of that would be enough in theory to pay for the colleges. If the transactions get you that much through speculative tax, I'm not sure why you even need the states to fund 1/3 of it. The speculative tax can pay the $300 billion for public colleges off the bat. I guess they want a remainder to be used elsewhere - why not directly work on bringing down the international debt? Just my opinion :P

:applause:

[longtime lurker]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Hundreds of trillions dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol

edit: *Sorry, not several hundred trillion are traded yearly but HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS yearly on wall street. .01% tax of that would be enough in theory to pay for the colleges. If the transactions get you that much through speculative tax, I'm not sure why you even need the states to fund 1/3 of it. The speculative tax can pay the $300 billion for public colleges off the bat. I guess they want a remainder to be used elsewhere - why not directly work on bringing down the international debt? Just my opinion :P

Lmao Republicunts slayed on the first page. Notice how they're avoiding this post like it's the plague. Free education would probably help a lot of you dumb ****s

[Patrick Chewing]

How do you expect to be taken seriously in political debates if you can't understand this very basic concept. Dems want free public college (not private) which would be paid for by increases in taxes.


Listen you fat little tard sandwich. Everything I do on this board has a purpose. I'm trying to expose how crazy and downright stupid Liberals are. And you just exposed the truth by saying it would be an increase in taxes.

You have to be a moron to vote for more taxes so that jabronis all over the country that you will never know can go to college and use that degree to wipe their ass with cause it don't nearly amount to shit in today's day and age as it used to.

[Akrazotile]

Yeah, loans where the government makes big bucks off through very high interest rates. Private loans tend to be even worse. Only people that can afford it are in decent financial situation going in. Unless if you have top-notch grades but even scholarships are tough to get.

I can tell you that the average person comes out of college more improved than they went in. As I said, what they do with the knowledge is up to those individuals.



-waste time in college? Did you go to college at all?
-You want vocational school? Ok, lets get that for everyone through the speculation tax on wall street. Rather than .01, lets make it .005.. Bachelors degree for in-state might cost $50,000 through public college while vocational school might be $30,000. What, you thought vocational school was free? :oldlol:
-Is there any particular reason why every single post of yours becomes an attack on somebody else? Usually, it is an attack on the generalized term of "liberals." I'm curious, what do you define 'liberal' as? Is it everyone that doesn't agree with you?

Anyways, it's important to choose the right field. I have bachelors in IT so I chose the right field, but I knew a few psychology majors that are very limited when it comes to jobs. Psychology is fine as a minor or if you're doing double-major with something else, but not as the primary major.

What did I say to suggest vocational school is free??? It's a much better option for many than "majoring in psychology" which as you pointed out is all too common. I myself majored in sociology at Ohio State University for about two trimesters, bc I felt compelled to go to make my parents happy, and figured sociology would be interesting, but as soon as I realized I didnt truly know what kind of career I wanted yet and that it was a waste of my time to show up to English class where a lesbian teacher assistant I could already write circles around as a freshman was assigning us CLEARLY agenda-driven BS assignments, I was like F this, I'm out.

If we're going to invest OTHER peoples money, lets be responsible and do it on things that make sense, eh? Not for Johnny Everyman to 'study psychology'

Learn that shit on your own. If you wanna go to school for engineering, dentistry, law, meteorology, fine. If you wanna waste time taking classes in "marketing," do it on your own dime.

[DonDadda59]

Agree. But if you're going to try and sell Free College as an additional tax, good luck trying to sell that to the American people. That's lunacy. College should not be treated as a right. I don't care what other countries do. College should be a privilege for those with the abilities and desire. Some schools are ripping people off no doubt though.

Why not? Kindergarten through 12 grade is already treated as a right (pre-K in some places). Why shouldn't so-called higher education?

[Nick Young]

Why not? Kindergarten through 12 grade is already treated as a right (pre-K in some places). Why shouldn't so-called higher education?
If I can be serious for a minute
http://wrestlingonearth.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/sad-lance.png


Some people are straight up retarded, and government resources shouldn't be spent to fast track them through 4 years of university so they can have a nice little gender studies diploma for mommy to stick on the refrigerator.


PC answer: University isn't right for everyone. Everyone shouldn't be encouraged to go to university. Sometimes it is wrong to force square pegs in to round holes.

[DukeDelonte13]

free college tuition is not a crazy far out idea. It's reality there are a lot of countries that do it.

I heard that California, Texas, and Florida offer major discounts for their own state universities through different funding systems.

And as a parent, i'd much rather pay a little more in taxes and have my kid's tuition taken care of than putting away thousands in the 529.

[DonDadda59]

Some people are straight up retarded, and government resources shouldn't be spent to fast track them through 4 years of university so they can have a nice little gender studies diploma for mommy to stick on the refrigerator.

Yet Kindergarten-12th grade is 'free' for them regardless. Why should the cut off begin at College?

And I don't think anybody would be 'fast-tracked'. If you flunk all your classes, you're ass is grass. You still have to do your work, pass, etc.

Why would anyone who isn't a bitter college dropout/flunker be against a more educated society and more people having access to higher education? :confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

Why not? Kindergarten through 12 grade is already treated as a right (pre-K in some places). Why shouldn't so-called higher education?

Well 8 year olds cant really be expected to pay tuition.

The cutoff has to be somewhere. Or why not make it free for every student to get a Ph.D? 10 years free room and board, books, classes, tutors, meals. Free ride til 30.

I think adulthood, 18 yrs old is a reasonable cutoff for free, blanket education. After that earn a scholarship, work a part time job, or pursue a self-educational path. It's really not a big deal. Very few people go to college for any reason other than it's expected and employers use "a degree" as a mindless cuttoff and substitute for a thorough candidate review process. Thats the system that needs changing. Most college students arent thinking men. Look at that UConn fool. We dont need to pay for all these kids Mac n Cheese.

[Patrick Chewing]

If we all have degrees at the end of the day, it would almost certainly make it harder for companies to hire people based on qualifications.

Face it, somebody is going to have to shovel horse shit. And I don't think anyone with a college degree is going to sign up for that.

[DonDadda59]

Well 8 year olds cant really be expected to pay tuition.

Virtually no 18-22 year olds pay tuition either, their parents do. And many parents pay tuition for their 8 year olds to go to private schools. Those without those means have the right of sending their 8 year old to a free public school.

Why should it be different past 12th grade?


The cutoff has to be somewhere. Or why not make it free for every student to get a Ph.D? 10 years free room and board, books, classes, tutors, meals. Free ride til 30.

If we can come up with a viable way to cover it, there doesn't need to be a cut off. But I think the idea is that undergraduate public colleges would be covered.


I think adulthood, 18 yrs old is a reasonable cutoff for free, blanket education. After that earn a scholarship, work a part time job, or pursue a self-educational path. It's really not a big deal. Very few people go to college for any reason other than it's expected and employers use "a degree" as a mindless cuttoff and substitute for a thorough candidate review process. Thats the system that needs changing. Most college students arent thinking men. Look at that UConn fool. We dont need to pay for all these kids Mac n Cheese.

Again, why does there need to be a cutoff?

How many 18 year olds did you know that were personally paying their college tuition?

[Nick Young]

Yet Kindergarten-12th grade is 'free' for them regardless. Why should the cut off begin at College?

And I don't think anybody would be 'fast-tracked'. If you flunk all your classes, you're ass is grass. You still have to do your work, pass, etc.

Why would anyone who isn't a bitter college dropout/flunker be against a more educated society and more people having access to higher education? :confusedshrug:
Because good university professors cost a lot of money.

I am a college graduate with a shit liberal arts degree, who has worked in the education sector. I personally don't believe that it is a good message to send out to kids that they need a university degree to be considered "educated". I don't think everyone having a degree will lead to anything. It will just lead to universities all over the USA lowering the bar to a very low level, effectively rendering many degrees worthless, which is what is happening in the UK, which underwent a similar "Everyone should have a uni degree and the state should pay for it" movement relatively recently under Tony Blair.

It sounds nice in theory but it didn't lead to people becoming more educated. It lead to universities lowering their standards.

I'm not even joking. In my job I interviewed a final year psych student who refused to take evolutionary psychology because it went against their religion, and they didn't know who Freud and Jung were. They were able to graduate their course and obtain a psychology degree. I wish I was making this up. But that is the kind of moron being passed through the UK university system. Now this moron is walking around with a psychology degree. A psychology degree used to mean something. Now you can skip learning a fundamental part of the field (evolutionary psychology), not know who Freud and Jung are (I still don't get how you can sit through a 3 year psych course and not know that, either the course was shit or the kid was phucking retarded, I'm going to go with both) and still obtain a degree in the UK and become a practicing psychologist. I can only assume that the US having a higher population means it also has a higher amount of morons than exists in the UK.

You can be educated without a university degree. Apprenticeships should not be considered low-class and second rate, and people without degrees should not be shamed and looked down on.

You don't need a university degree to be successful. It is wrong that the US government is trying to make it seem like people will be failures if they didn't go to university. University isn't right for everyone. There's nothing wrong with this. People with an apprenticeship in plumbing or electrical engineering for example should not be considered lower than some moron with a degree in Latino Trans Cultural Literature and Poetry.

In fact, with an apprenticeship, you obtain on the job experience and actually acquire employable skills. Knowing what I know now, I wish I had done an apprenticeship in something useful and valuble rather than gone to university.

[dkmwise]

free college tuition is not a crazy far out idea. It's reality there are a lot of countries that do it.

I heard that California, Texas, and Florida offer major discounts for their own state universities through different funding systems.

And as a parent, i'd much rather pay a little more in taxes and have my kid's tuition taken care of than putting away thousands in the 529.

To be honest you're right, it's not that crazy an idea, although much depends on how it is ultimately implemented and I don't trust any of these candidates with that.

I'm not saying I am for this idea, but if they included certain state colleges to be tuition free for in state residents, it really wouldn't have to be that expensive. Think about it, if you did tuition, not room and board which can be the most expensive part anyway. Tuition for in state students (which is already subsidized by taxpayers) at many state schools can be less than $1,000 per year. That is really not that much. You already have the poorest people getting free rides for these things anyway and the wealthy families will probably still send their kids to private colleges and many people will still not want to go to college, so you are looking at a somewhat small percentage that will actually take part anyway. It would really help out middle class kids more than anyone.

[UK2K]

-Bernie Sanders said it would come directly from the wallstreet tax on transactions/speculation. So if you buy/sell/trade $10,000 worth of stock, a small tax is added to that. His plan says it would be .01% for each transaction. For the $10,000 example, it would amount to $1. It's not much in short term but it adds up considering how many transactions are done daily & throughout the year.

-Trillions of dollars are traded back&forth throughout a month. Hundreds of trillions dollars worth of trading is done yearly.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/22/opinion/the-case-for-a-tax-on-financial-transactions.html

-Keep in mind this only applies to public colleges. Private colleges can do what they want as they have always done.

-About $300 billion are spent yearly on public colleges/universities so the speculation tax of .01% will cover 2/3rd of it. Sanders plan asks states to pay the remaining 3rd.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=75

-As for college loan question.. If you already owe a college loan, I believe you get to re-negotiate to a much lower interest rate. The government is currently making big bucks over high college loan interest rates on the backs of students. Remember, students on average are still paying the college loans 10-15 years after graduating from college while the interest keeps rolling. Sanders/Clinton/others want to lower that interest rate to lessen the burden.

Ensure your community is well educated will help people find better jobs, lower crime, lower poverty, help businesses grow as the people have more spending money due to better job through education & make better decisions. More educated public is better for everyone, including the corporations that bought & own republicans, Clinton, everyone but Sanders/Web..

Only question remains: Can every state afford to pay the remaining 3rd? If every state can't or won't, there could be issues for whichever state doesn't. Students will all move out of the state to some other state :lol

edit: *Sorry, not several hundred trillion are traded yearly but HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS yearly on wall street. .01% tax of that would be enough in theory to pay for the colleges. If the transactions get you that much through speculative tax, I'm not sure why you even need the states to fund 1/3 of it. The speculative tax can pay the $300 billion for public colleges off the bat. I guess they want a remainder to be used elsewhere - why not directly work on bringing down the international debt? Just my opinion :P

Soon, 75% of the labor force will be made up of former students from these private colleges because employers will know the public universities are shit.

Then we'll complain about education inequality some more.

There's a reason people pay for them.

[DonDadda59]

If we all have degrees at the end of the day, it would almost certainly make it harder for companies to hire people based on qualifications.

That would make the job market more competitive and force us as a society to come up with new industries. Before the 90s, how big was the tech industry? What happens if we stop spending trillions of dollars on pointless excursions into the Middle East and we concentrate some of that money on creating new sources of energy? That could create a new industry that requires skilled, educated people with particular skill sets; ie, what happened with the tech boom.


Face it, somebody is going to have to shovel horse shit. And I don't think anyone with a college degree is going to sign up for that.

There will always be more than enough people to do menial labor. Shit, we got a whole shadow industry of undocumented workers who handle that sort of work now that most people balk at.


Because good university professors cost a lot of money.

There will still be plenty of $50,000-$70,000 per year Universities that they milk for their lifestyle needs.

[NumberSix]

Why not? Kindergarten through 12 grade is already treated as a right (pre-K in some places). Why shouldn't so-called higher education?
Nothing that has to be provided by someone else (exluding obvious things like parents taking care of their children) should be considered a right.

If everybody in America suddenly decided to stop working, you'd still have your right to speech, religion, self defense, etc... Where would this right to free college come from?

[dkmwise]

Soon, 75% of the labor force will be made up of former students from these private colleges because employers will know the public universities are shit.

Then we'll complain about education inequality some more.

There's a reason people pay for them.

that is a quality point.

I've said the same about single payer healthcare, that will do more to hurt the middle class because if the government takes it all over there will still be rich people with private plans and they will end up as the only ones who have good care. Right now a middle class worker can find a union or government job that has good health benefits.

[dkmwise]

I think the biggest thing people should be talking about with education is how democrats are in bed with the colleges to work out government backed loans so that schools can raise prices to whatever they want. If they didn't keep pushing these guaranteed loans then the market would sort itself out and tuition prices would come way down.

[dkmwise]

Nothing that has to be provided by someone else (exluding obvious things like parents taking care of their children) should be considered a right.

If everybody in America suddenly decided to stop working, you'd still have your right to speech, religion, self defense, etc... Where would this right to free college come from?

I think a point to be made too is that K-12 is for kids, people under 18 or maybe just turning 18. I think as a country we are ok with more social programs and protections for children, less so for adults.

[Akrazotile]

Virtually no 18-22 year olds pay tuition either, their parents do. And many parents pay tuition for their 8 year olds to go to private schools. Those without those means have the right of sending their 8 year old to a free public school.

Why should it be different past 12th grade?



If we can come up with a viable way to cover it, there doesn't need to be a cut off. But I think the idea is that undergraduate public colleges would be covered.



Again, why does there need to be a cutoff?

How many 18 year olds did you know that were personally paying their college tuition?


I think a lot of 18 year olds pay for it themselves via loans. Isnt that what the whole debt issue is about? I personally feel bad myself that I wasted all the money my parents saved up on a few months of out of state tuition which was multiple thousands of dollars. Should have spent my senior year studying investing and told them to let me start some kind of entrepreneurial thing with that money. But again, I just went because I was "supposed to" and my parents are of a generation where it would have been "embarrassing" for them if I didnt. But that money could have been much better spent. And there areLOTS of examples just like that. How many kids drop out of college before finishing? Rather than publicly waste money on their unfinished degrees, we should encourage kids to understand college isnt the only path to success, and not to commit to it until they have a specific purpose in mind. Thats a rational solution thats more effective than the typical "just spend more money to fix things." Thats what I hate about the left wing. Im pro environment. I dont gaf about homosex marriage. But when money alone is not getting something done, they automatically shout "throw MORE money at it! Thats the fix!" And usually theyre wrong. They dont seem to understand that principles, practicality, and useful knowledge are more important than dollar bills. They cant seem to understand ANYTHING besides "tax and spend!!!" Its too much close minded thinking.

[DonDadda59]

Nothing that has to be provided by someone else (exluding obvious things like parents taking care of their children) should be considered a right.

If everybody in America suddenly decided to stop working, you'd still have your right to speech, religion, self defense, etc... Where would this right to free college come from?

Isn't the right to speech, religion, self defense, etc guaranteed by the constitution and laws that were created by... someone else? :confusedshrug:

Where does the right to free education from K-12 come from?

What's the point of this semantics debate? :confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

I think the biggest thing people should be talking about with education is how democrats are in bed with the colleges to work out government backed loans so that schools can raise prices to whatever they want. If they didn't keep pushing these guaranteed loans then the market would sort itself out and tuition prices would come way down.


Proble is Democrat voters cant conceive of their own party conning them. They receive the class warfare, "pro education" propaganda and instantly authorize a blank check for "tax and spend on education! Education! Go education!"

Tuition/degrees/professors =/= Education

[DonDadda59]

I think a lot of 18 year olds pay for it themselves via loans. Isnt that what the whole debt issue is about? I personally feel bad myself that I wasted all the money my parents saved up on a few months of out of state tuition which was multiple thousands of dollars. Should have spent my senior year studying investing and told them to let me start some kind of entrepreneurial thing with that money. But again, I just went because I was "supposed to" and my parents are of a generation where it would have been "embarrassing" for them if I didnt. But that money could have been much better spent. And there areLOTS of examples just like that. How many kids drop out of college before finishing? Rather than publicly waste money on their unfinished degrees, we should encourage kids to understand college isnt the only path to success, and not to commit to it until they have a specific purpose in mind. Thats a rational solution thats more effective than the typical "just spend more money to fix things." Thats what I hate about the left wing. Im pro environment. I dont gaf about homosex marriage. But when money alone is not getting something done, they automatically shout "throw MORE money at it! Thats the fix!" And usually theyre wrong. They dont seem to understand that principles, practicality, and useful knowledge are more important than dollar bills. They cant seem to understand ANYTHING besides "tax and spend!!!" Its too much close minded thinking.

But what's lost on you and many people is that there are kids whose parents don't have the luxury of sending their children to private institutions in other states simply to avoid embarrassment :lol

[Nick Young]

Isn't the right to speech, religion, self defense, etc guaranteed by the constitution and laws that were created by... someone else? :confusedshrug:

Where does the right to free education from K-12 come from?

What's the point of this semantics debate? :confusedshrug:
There is no right to free education anywhere in the US constitution.

[Akrazotile]

Don, you are pretty knowledgable about some subjects. Religious text/history. Mafia stuff. 90s basketball. And presumabl you didnt learn in depth about these things in school.

If there were some job available where this knowledge was of high value, would you expect them to hire you, or some bozo with a degree who doesnt know it half as good as you?

Thats the problem. In the current climate, the bozo gets the job. And people thus go to college for things its not necessary to go to college for.

Why?? Its just mobthink. If kids wanna be part of that, its on them. It doesnt need to be added to the federal budget.

[Patrick Chewing]

That would make the job market more competitive and force us as a society to come up with new industries. Before the 90s, how big was the tech industry? What happens if we stop spending trillions of dollars on pointless excursions into the Middle East and we concentrate some of that money on creating new sources of energy? That could create a new industry that requires skilled, educated people with particular skill sets; ie, what happened with the tech boom.



There will always be more than enough people to do menial labor. Shit, we got a whole shadow industry of undocumented workers who handle that sort of work now that most people balk at.



There will still be plenty of $50,000-$70,000 per year Universities that they milk for their lifestyle needs.


Sounds promising all joking aside.

[DonDadda59]

There is no right to free education anywhere in the US constitution.

Yet every citizen in this country (and even non citizens in some cases) can go through Kindergarten through 12th grade free of charge. Go figure.


Sounds promising all joking aside.

America needs a kick in the ass. Sooner or later we have to get to the point where we realize nothing good will ever come from our involvement in the most volatile spot on Earth simply because we need that sweet sweet black gold. This could be the catalyst for us becoming a more productive and educated society.

Times change. Stop fighting it.

[NumberSix]

Isn't the right to speech, religion, self defense, etc guaranteed by the constitution and laws that were created by... someone else? :confusedshrug:

Where does the right to free education from K-12 come from?

What's the point of this semantics debate? :confusedshrug:
No. The constitution does not grant these rights. The constitution recognizes these as pre-existing natural rights and prohibits the government from restricting them. Free speech is something you inherently have. Nobody can give you free speech. They can only try to take it away.

[DonDadda59]

No. The constitution does not grant these rights. The constitution recognizes these as pre-existing natural rights and prohibits the government from restricting them. Free speech is something you inherently have. Nobody can give you free speech. They can only try to take it away.

Again, this is a pointless semantics argument.

What gives every American citizen the right to a 12th grade education free of charge? I'd really like to get an answer on this.

[DonDadda59]

Don, you are pretty knowledgable about some subjects. Religious text/history. Mafia stuff. 90s basketball. And presumabl you didnt learn in depth about these things in school.

If there were some job available where this knowledge was of high value, would you expect them to hire you, or some bozo with a degree who doesnt know it half as good as you?

Thats the problem. In the current climate, the bozo gets the job. And people thus go to college for things its not necessary to go to college for.

Why?? Its just mobthink. If kids wanna be part of that, its on them. It doesnt need to be added to the federal budget.

Just the way the World works. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of jobs that require degrees but don't NEED degrees. Millions of people end up working in fields that they didn't study in College, but they would not even have been considered for the position without that piece of paper.

Changing that would require some sort of mass paradigm shift and a new way of thinking that I just don't see happening in any of our lifetimes.

[NumberSix]

Yet every citizen in this country (and even non citizens in some cases) can go through Kindergarten through 12th grade free of charge. Go figure.you know how when you're a little kid, you don't pay for the food and clothes your parents give you and you don't pay rent or utilities? Just because YOU don't pay for it doesn't mean its free.

[Akrazotile]

But what's lost on you and many people is that there are kids whose parents don't have the luxury of sending their children to private institutions in other states simply to avoid embarrassment :lol


There are tons of grants and scholarships available in those cases. But they should only be used for kids going into programs that have a reasonable expectation of job placement and income.

I'm sorry, but if youre an impoverished child whose dream is to get a masters in french poetry, youre gonna have to figure out a way to get that on your own. Lifes unfair sometimes.

Kids who have no idea what they want to do yet, and subsequently spend four years getting a broad degree in "communications" have done no service to themselves nor whomever paid for that degree. We dont need to encourage more of that.

[DonDadda59]

you know how when you're a little kid, you don't pay for the food and clothes your parents give you and you don't pay rent or utilities? Just because YOU don't pay for it doesn't mean its free.

And the proposed 'free' College tuition plan would be 'free' in the same way that Kindergarten through 12th grade is 'free' for every American citizen.

But again, you never answered my question.

[NumberSix]

And the proposed 'free' College tuition plan would be 'free' in the same way that Kindergarten through 12th grade is 'free' for every American citizen.

But again, you never answered my question.
What question?

[DonDadda59]

What question?

This one here:


What gives every American citizen the right to a 12th grade education free of charge? I'd really like to get an answer on this.

[NumberSix]

This one here:


What gives every American citizen the right to a 12th grade education free of charge? I'd really like to get an answer on this.
Nothing does.

[DonDadda59]

Nothing does.

Yet somehow EVERY American citizen, 300+ million and growing... can get a 12th grade education for 'free'.

What a concept.

[Akrazotile]

This one here:


What gives every American citizen the right to a 12th grade education free of charge? I'd really like to get an answer on this.

According to this very sensible article, it actually is written into many state constitutions. So I believe that would be the answer to your question.


Survey after survey shows Americans know less than they think about their Constitution—as damning an indictment of U.S. public education as any government “metric” or middling outcome on an international test. But the most damning indictment of all may be the belief that education is, or ought to be, a constitutional right.

In fact, the Constitution—which we celebrate on September 17, the day the framers signed the new document after months of careful if contentious deliberation—says nothing about public education. Not a word. And it’s a good thing, too. The Constitution defines and limits the power of government, a fact barely understood today.

That education is essential to good citizenship cannot be denied. That public education should be micromanaged through the supreme law of the land is another matter entirely. Comprehending why education appears nowhere in the Constitution is a key to understanding why the American experiment in self-government is at once so brilliant and so fragile.

The 39 brave, farsighted individuals who gathered in Philadelphia in 1787 crafted a constitution to establish a strong central government empowered to do certain jobs that the states could not manage effectively on their own. These duties included making sure to provide a common defense, for example, and to ensure that a contract signed in one state is binding in another.

But the framers also understood that there were many more jobs the federal government could not do better than the states, and hence should not do. Education was foremost among them.

Education is necessarily a state and local concern. Most states, in fact, include education among several rights guaranteed in their constitutions. But even if the subjects of education are the same everywhere—two plus two equals four in Anchorage, Alaska just as it does in Bangor, Maine—the needs and the character of any given community are often quite different from others’. We elect school boards because we believe local oversight is better than deference to far-flung bureaucracies. And parents know what their children need better than officials in distant capitols. Even if we accept the need for state academic standards, that doesn’t preclude the need for local accountability.

If people are now seeing education as more of a job for the federal government, it may be because the schools have done such a poor job of educating people about their rights—and about the limits the Constitution places on government. A recent poll by the American Revolution Center in Philadelphia, for example, found more than half of those surveyed misidentified the system of government established in the Constitution as a direct democracy rather than a republic. (The question appears on all U.S. naturalization tests.)

Even more troubling were the latest results of the National Assessment of Educational Progress in civics, which found most of the nation’s high school seniors had only a “basic knowledge” of American government and a “limited understanding” of how it works.

The result of such a limited understanding is an accumulation of power in Washington, DC at the expense of state and local authority and responsibility.

Two decades ago the nation’s central government contributed approximately 5 percent of the funds devoted to public education in the United States. Today it’s closer to 19 percent and growing.

The Obama administration envisions a federal bureaucracy soon developing national tests and certifying public schools’ curricula, for the first time ever. Federal bureaucrats would dictate what children all across the nation will read and how long they will read it. Local school administrators would become mere federal apparatchiks, regardless of who signs their paychecks. Locally elected school boards would be obsolete. Parents would have fewer and fewer choices for educating their kids.

And this massive accumulation of power without accountability would occur in the absence of any explicit constitutional authority.

Too many Americans, and their elected leaders, labor under the belief that there is no problem the federal government cannot “solve.” In reality, the problem of public education only worsens the more federal bureaucrats interfere. If Americans revere the Constitution as much as we’d like to think, we’ll put a stop to this usurpation of state and local accountability—and soon.

https://www.heartland.org/policy-documents/what-constitution-says-about-education

[DonDadda59]

According to this very sensible article, it actually is written into many state constitutions. So I believe that would be the answer to your question.

Thank you. :applause:

So from what I take it, in order for Bernie's plan to work 2/3 of the funds for his plan would be executed at the Federal level (with the new transaction tax) with the remaining 1/3 for each individual state, coming from said states. I'm sure most sensible States would amend their constitutions to include public universities. Naturally there will be the rogue Governors who'll preach about how Commie Bernie's plan would include death panels for students and scare their constituents away from 'free' college educations.

But once they see their neighbors in other states getting higher paying jobs they don't have access to... Obamacare all over again. :lol

[bladefd]

What did I say to suggest vocational school is free???

Ok, lets make vocational school free for everyone for 2 years. From speculation tax of .005%.

What do the cynics like you, UK2K, PatrickChewing, NickYoung, and others have to say to that? Will you blow a gasket now too bc I said to make vocational school free for everyone? Keep in mind vocational school is also considered higher education.

[Akrazotile]

Ok, lets make vocational school free for everyone for 2 years. From speculation tax of .005%.

What do the cynics like you, UK2K, PatrickChewing, NickYoung, and others have to say to that? Will you blow a gasket now too bc I said to make vocational school free for everyone? Keep in mind vocational school is also considered higher education.

Until Ive given the feasibility and logistics of it more than 30 seconds of consideration I dont have anything to say to it. But I'll tell you between that and free college education which serves no purpose for a huge number of students who enroll, it's probably the better idea of the two.

[dkmwise]

Also keep in mind that currently everyone in the country already has the ability to go to college for free. Join the military, they pay for your college.

[ALBballer]

This one here:


What gives every American citizen the right to a 12th grade education free of charge? I'd really like to get an answer on this.

It's not exactly free it's mainly financed through property taxes.

As for the OP, you pay for "free college" like you would pay for any other good provided by the government ie via taxes. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of free 2 year colleges but I am also under the opinion that college isn't necessarily the answer to everything and more money should be allocated to vocational schools.

[sammichoffate]

Free College-->Demand for more teachers and research-->More Educated Workforce-->Growth of Industries and presumably Middle Class-->???-->Cure for Cancer
Or something like that :bowdown:

[sundizz]

Retard mentality is retarded.

Every person doesn't need to go to college. You need a degree to be a plumber? A car salesman? A mail carrier? A pre-school teacher? A police officer? A limmo driver? A telemarketer?

There are MILLIONS of job positions in America that you can make a living off of that DO NOT require a college education. Everyone can't be a lawyer or a software engineer. MOST people simply do not need a college 'education.'

Why would we gin up a bunch of extra tax revenue to send kids to college so they can party for four years and take bullshit classes which do nothing for them except indoctrinate them into liberal- oh. I see.

Some of the degree programs I hear of being offered these days are hilarious. Shit has become a legit idiocracy.

That is such short-sighted thinking though. College is not only about learning a specific skill, or gaining some direct knowledge. It is the process of becoming an educated, self aware individual that understands how to function in a progressive society that embraces individuals and the collective good.

It is the same reason there is high school. After someone learns how to read, every single basic knowledge from high school could be taught in 1 year with a private tutor (e.g., math, science, history, etc). That sort of basic knowledge is so easy to learn. The point of going to all these schools though is that young adults have progressive steps to becoming functioning members of society.

You cannot expect people to vote, to care about the infrastructure of the country, have discussions about embracing different religions/ideals/living in harmony etc with them if they don't expose themselves to anything beyond what they already know. Only 1-2% of the population have "real" jobs, everyone else is simply a cog in the wheel of society. The better greased we are as cogs as a population the smoother the ride will be for everyone.

It should be our aim as a nation for every citizen to be provided (through taxes):

Healthcare
Education
Housing
Utilities (e.g., power)
Water
Roads
Public Transportation
Defense (e.g., military)
Police/fire
Unemployment/homelessness plans
Etc.

These "provided" things allow people the freedom to pursue careers and lifestyles of their choice. These are basic human safety nets that we all need. You may think you don't need it but if one of these taken for granted areas goes down we'd all be screwed. I don't want to pay for infrastructure, such as some stupid stop sign renovation, but at the same time I know that money goes toward other things like making sure our roads are taken care. If a data center is hit (making internet/ISH unavailable) there is a way for the public protection services (police/fire/military) to get there and handle the situation.

It has to be a mix of private and public. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is for people to be all about a place like Walmart (which basically is a micro-economy of governmental capitalism (provides everything) and not down for a bigger, more people minded version of it to integrate better into our society.

This rant was way too long, but I'm so sick of SF having so many rich people and also having such terrible public transportation + housing + homelessness + nonviolent loiterers. I'm living in Seoul right now and there are 10,000,000 people here (there are 900,000 in SF). There is a subway system that connects the entire city, it is easy to get anywhere affordably, housing is affordable, and they have every tech/Western food etc you could want. It makes no sense that SF is such a shithole (except for that top 5%) and some city in Asia dominates it in so many ways.

[Akrazotile]

You cannot expect people to vote, to care about the infrastructure of the country, have discussions about embracing different religions/ideals/living in harmony etc with them if they don't expose themselves to anything beyond what they already know. Only 1-2% of the population have "real" jobs, everyone else is simply a cog in the wheel of society. The better greased we are as cogs as a population the smoother the ride will be for everyone.



And this can only be done by paying 5-10k a year in a University setting?

:rolleyes:


We are all online exchanging ideas for free right now (well, plus the cost of internet, 40 bucks or whatever). You can go to meetup.com and join free sports leagues, chess clubs, language programs.



These colleges, boy, they've got the people hooked on this idea that "go to college or else you cannot be anything on ur own!!!!!"

That's sheep think. That's limited, conventional, reactive, obedient mental servitude.

You don't need to go to a college to "find yourself." Use that tuition money to go volunteer in a foreign country for a year and you'll learn plenty of social lessons.

Pointless homework assignments and expensive textbooks are a waste of peoples time if they're not going into very specific professions. The idea that "EVER1 NEEDS 2 DO DIS" is just simply something that has been beaten so hard into peoples heads they don't question it. It's a fallacy and a highly inefficient method of public improvement. And it is rooted in this liberal denial of evolutionary advantages. Some people are simply more talented than others. They generally end up as higher earners. Libs desperately trying to convince themselves universal college education will even the playing field and create ubiquitous financial equality. :oldlol: It's hardcore denial. College is not necessary for everyone. Period.

[Pushxx]

Retard mentality is retarded.

Every person doesn't need to go to college. You need a degree to be a plumber? A car salesman? A mail carrier? A pre-school teacher? A police officer? A limmo driver? A telemarketer?

There are MILLIONS of job positions in America that you can make a living off of that DO NOT require a college education. Everyone can't be a lawyer or a software engineer. MOST people simply do not need a college 'education.'

Why would we gin up a bunch of extra tax revenue to send kids to college so they can party for four years and take bullshit classes which do nothing for them except indoctrinate them into liberal- oh. I see.

Some of the degree programs I hear of being offered these days are hilarious. Shit has become a legit idiocracy.

I like how you wrote in the moment it dawned on you. :cheers:

Even though in actuality it's just blowing smoke up America's ass, like all politicians do.

[KyrieTheFuture]

A very, very important distinction between us, and countries that provide free education, is that for some stupid reason, Americans think college is a right of passage, and everyone has to go. Even if you plan on being an electrician, **** it I wanna party for 4 years so gimme 20k in debt please! Plenty of nordic folk just straight up don't go. Why? BECAUSE IT IS A WASTE. I would be all for free college tuition if it didn't mean I was paying for trashy sluts and frat douches to not actually attend class and party all day. I liked Hillary's idea of mandatory 10 hour minimum work week if you get assistance, but I also think there should be a grade minimum and attendance minimum that needs to be adhered to our you get no money. Most importantly, no free money for a god damn gender studies degree, or sociology, or all that bullshit where you just become a professor of what you majored in. That does not help the country, the country shouldn't pay for it. I firmly believe those classes are important, as they generate interesting thought and discussion, but they ultimately are not necessary. The country would be just fine without people majoring in human geography.

If I took the money I spent over the 4 years in college and invested it, I wouldn't need a ****ing job.

[Goro]

Listen you fat little tard sandwich. Everything I do on this board has a purpose. I'm trying to expose how crazy and downright stupid Liberals are. And you just exposed the truth by saying it would be an increase in taxes.

You have to be a moron to vote for more taxes so that jabronis all over the country that you will never know can go to college and use that degree to wipe their ass with cause it don't nearly amount to shit in today's day and age as it used to.

Nice backpedaling. You really did not know the answer, and now that you do you simply don't like it. If your complaint was about tax increases, you would have stated that in the OP. Many of the best countries in the world have high tax rates and socialized medicine/much more affordable school. Heck, many people (particularly conservatives) point to the 50s as being the tops for the country, had a 90% tax rate. People at like 30% would devastate them, yet one of the most prosperous times in our countries history had a super high tax rate. The difference between then and now (besides the obvious social issues), is that the money was more evenly distributed back then, while now most of the money is at the top.

[Akrazotile]

A very, very important distinction between us, and countries that provide free education, is that for some stupid reason, Americans think college is a right of passage, and everyone has to go. Even if you plan on being an electrician, **** it I wanna party for 4 years so gimme 20k in debt please! Plenty of nordic folk just straight up don't go. Why? BECAUSE IT IS A WASTE. I would be all for free college tuition if it didn't mean I was paying for trashy sluts and frat douches to not actually attend class and party all day. I liked Hillary's idea of mandatory 10 hour minimum work week if you get assistance, but I also think there should be a grade minimum and attendance minimum that needs to be adhered to our you get no money. Most importantly, no free money for a god damn gender studies degree, or sociology, or all that bullshit where you just become a professor of what you majored in. That does not help the country, the country shouldn't pay for it. I firmly believe those classes are important, as they generate interesting thought and discussion, but they ultimately are not necessary. The country would be just fine without people majoring in human geography.

If I took the money I spent over the 4 years in college and invested it, I wouldn't need a ****ing job.

That's real tawk.

I know blue collar dudes that are like 27 and whenever someone asks them what they do, they're sheepishly like "Well, I work construction... but I'm taking classes!" like they're afraid to admit they're "just a construction worker." And that's the misguided pressure that most people feel, which is exploited by schools and rhetoric-happy politicians. Hell, every time I've asked a girl what she does and it turns out she's a stripper, she says "Well, I'm a dancer... But I'm taking classes at (insert community college)." What the hell is she gonna do with those classes, become a VP of Investor Relations for Oracle? She's a stripper with an IQ of 81.

THe idea of college education for everyone is a scam. Schools are in bed with politicians, and politicians manipulate their shmuck voters into thinking its some noble, benevolent ideal to have every person enrolled in a university. Everyone isn't smart! Everyone isn't ambitious! Moreover, those who are often don't NEED school anyway! College is useful for a very narrow selection of career paths and that's it.

THAT'S IT!

[KyrieTheFuture]

That's real tawk.

I know blue collar dudes that are like 27 and whenever someone asks them what they do, they're sheepishly like "Well, I work construction... but I'm taking classes!" like they're afraid to admit they're "just a construction worker." And that's the misguided pressure that most people feel, which is exploited by schools and rhetoric-happy politicians. Hell, every time I've asked a girl what she does and it turns out she's a stripper, she says "Well, I'm a dancer... But I'm taking classes at (insert community college)." What the hell is she gonna do with those classes, become a VP of Investor Relations for Oracle? She's a stripper with an IQ of 81.

THe idea of college education for everyone is a scam. Schools are in bed with politicians, and politicians manipulate their shmuck voters into thinking its some noble, benevolent ideal to have every person enrolled in a university. Everyone isn't smart! Everyone isn't ambitious! Moreover, those who are often don't NEED school anyway! College is useful for a very narrow selection of career paths and that's it.

THAT'S IT!
****ing this. ****ing this. I'll never understand how it's better to be taking classes and not working, than working and not taking classes. It's not even just liberal arts classes that don't need college. In business, Marketing and HR 100% do not need to be majors. Management was one of my two majors, and in 4 years all I learned was don't be a dick to your employees. ****ing incredible waste of time. Finance as a degree is almost useless to. You get retrained no matter where you get a job! They know that what you learn in college is useless, you learn formulas which you never ever use again because it's not 1650 and we have computers that do shit for us. A business class that actually would improve your business skills are debate and speech classes. I would argue the only jobs that really absolutely need college are STEM careers.

Edit: Also hilariously enough, electricians and construction managers make more money than most office jobs but oh well. It's "embarrassing".

[Nick Young]

Just the way the World works. As has been pointed out, there are plenty of jobs that require degrees but don't NEED degrees. Millions of people end up working in fields that they didn't study in College, but they would not even have been considered for the position without that piece of paper.

Changing that would require some sort of mass paradigm shift and a new way of thinking that I just don't see happening in any of our lifetimes.
Do you know what's happening in the UK right now? Everyone who wants a degree gets one, because the UK government gives out loans TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS ONE. Employers are realizing that a degree doesn't mean what it used to, because everyone has one. They are hiring kids with degrees who come in to their jobs and don't know how to do shit because the standards to get a degree have been lowered so much. Employers are now choosing to hire kids straight out of the UK equivalent of high school because they can hire them for less than they would a university graduate, and spend time training them up so they know how to do the job properly.

Everyone has a degree, and pay overall is lower for everyone, even those with degrees.

It doesn't work magical lala land like you think it does. If everyone has a degree, high paying jobs won't suddenly come in to existance for everyone. All it means is more competition for the good jobs, and all the people with degrees who suck still have to work shit retail and fast food jobs. They have student loans that they'll never be able to pay back because they can't get a high paying job in the field their degree is in because they suck.

The UK population has not gotten smarter. Universities have just gotten worse. Shit universities, nicknamed "Degree Mills" by people in the education sector, are opening up to take advantage of all the idiotic kids who, quite frankly, are too stupid and lazy for university, and giving them degrees.

A degree over there now means very little compared to what it once did.

Is that what you want to happen in the United States?

[Nick Young]

Ok, lets make vocational school free for everyone for 2 years. From speculation tax of .005%.

What do the cynics like you, UK2K, PatrickChewing, NickYoung, and others have to say to that? Will you blow a gasket now too bc I said to make vocational school free for everyone? Keep in mind vocational school is also considered higher education.
Did you know that many apprenticeships actually pay you to attend them? Atleast that's how it is in the UK, dunno how it is in the US.

You GET PAID to learn an EMPLOYABLE SKILL, and when your apprenticeship ends, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE WORK. If you do an apprenticeship to become a plumber, or a mechanic, or an electrician, or an air conditioning engineer, you can start your own business and make BANK.

So basically, you get paid to learn a valuable skill that is always useful to society and pays well. You only spend 2-3 years in work experience rather than 4 like at uni. You get REAL ON THE JOB EXPERIENCE.

Quite frankly, America would be better off if apprenticeships were encouraged, like they are in Germany, rather than looked down upon like they are in the US by elitist snobs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with with doing an apprenticeship rather than go to university. And in fact, unless you are doing a STEM degree or law, the apprenticeship is likely a much wiser choice for you long term financially.


Sorry bro. Some people are just too stupid and lazy to go to uni. It's just how it is. Uni isn't for everyone. Rather than force square pegs in to round holes, why not offer everyone different opportunities that they have to succeed in.


Do you know why these politicians are so obsessed with "free university for everyone?" ITS ANOTHER THING THEY CAN TAX. IT'S A WAY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO GET MORE MONEY. We should offer more skilled apprenticeships. A degree means JACK SHIT if all of America has one. And university standards will lower to accommodate all the idiots and ensure that they're happy and pass on through*

I have seen it with my own eyes. UK universities are passing morons through psychology courses who refuse to learn evolutionary psychology because it goes against their beliefs. These morons graduate with Psychology degrees with a massive black hole in the knowledge of their chosen field and are allowed to practice psychology on real people. Is this the kind of shit you want? Morons who refuse to learn still being allowed to get degrees, simply because they want one? That is what will happen.

*What's the PC term for people who aren't academically intelligent and suck at school?

[DonDadda59]

Do you know what's happening in the UK right now? Everyone who wants a degree gets one, because the UK government gives out loans TO EVERYONE WHO WANTS ONE. Employers are realizing that a degree doesn't mean what it used to, because everyone has one. They are hiring kids with degrees who come in to their jobs and don't know how to do shit because the standards to get a degree have been lowered so much. Employers are now choosing to hire kids straight out of the UK equivalent of high school because they can hire them for less than they would a university graduate, and spend time training them up so they know how to do the job properly.

Everyone has a degree, and pay overall is lower for everyone, even those with degrees.

It doesn't work magical lala land like you think it does. If everyone has a degree, high paying jobs won't suddenly come in to existance for everyone. All it means is more competition for the good jobs, and all the people with degrees who suck still have to work shit retail and fast food jobs. They have student loans that they'll never be able to pay back because they can't get a high paying job in the field their degree is in because they suck.

The UK population has not gotten smarter. Universities have just gotten worse. Shit universities, nicknamed "Degree Mills" by people in the education sector, are opening up to take advantage of all the idiotic kids who, quite frankly, are too stupid and lazy for university, and giving them degrees.

A degree over there now means very little compared to what it once did.

Is that what you want to happen in the United States?

Yeah, no offense to the United 'Kingdom' but there's a reason why we won the Revolutionary War. Now we have a new Revolution on our hands and there's nothing your Benedict Arnold ass can do about it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NGwgkcvIL._SX342_QL70_.jpg

[Nick Young]

Ok, lets make vocational school free for everyone for 2 years. From speculation tax of .005%.

What do the cynics like you, UK2K, PatrickChewing, NickYoung, and others have to say to that? Will you blow a gasket now too bc I said to make vocational school free for everyone? Keep in mind vocational school is also considered higher education.
Why do you use cynic like it's an insult? It isn't. The world isn't a Disney movie brah. What you call cynical, others call being realistic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a cynic. Do you have a problem with Diogenes too?I know you had to google Diogenes bro, because you didn't know who he was. What a great education you have. Did you get it at an American university?

[Nick Young]

Yeah, no offense to the United 'Kingdom' but there's a reason why we won the Revolutionary War. Now we have a new Revolution on our hands and there's nothing your Benedict Arnold ass can do about it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NGwgkcvIL._SX342_QL70_.jpg
Maybe it will work out here, but the UK is kind of like America Jr. the people in the US and UK are pretty similar culturally and attitude wise. I don't think it's smart to try something in the US that is clearly failing in the UK.

The better example to follow is Germany. The state pays for smart and motivated kids to attend university for free. They prove their intelligence and motivation through grades and testing. The idiots who suck at school or are unmotivated are given a choice of vocations to learn.

Vocational schools and apprenticeships have zero negative social stigma associated with them.

If the idiots who aren't smart enough to get in on merit really want to go to university badly, they can pay for it.

That's how it should be. I have no problem with that system.

If Sanders or Clinton become president, and they create a system like that, I would be down for it. If they just start giving out free university loans to every retard in the country like Tony Blair did, we are ****ed long term and our universities, which are currently recognized as the best in the world, will lower their standards, and we will lose our proud reputation.


Also the smart kids in classes will be held back by the morons, as professors and teachers will have to slow things down and make things simple so everyone can follow along. Everyone loses in this scenario.

[Nick Young]

This rant was way too long, but I'm so sick of SF having so many rich people and also having such terrible public transportation + housing + homelessness + nonviolent loiterers. I'm living in Seoul right now and there are 10,000,000 people here (there are 900,000 in SF). There is a subway system that connects the entire city, it is easy to get anywhere affordably, housing is affordable, and they have every tech/Western food etc you could want. It makes no sense that SF is such a shithole (except for that top 5%) and some city in Asia dominates it in so many ways.
I hope you are aware that that's because the automobile industry wants it to be that way. There's nothing stopping San Fransisco and Los Angeles from building a great public transportation system like the ones in London, Germany or Seoul. Except automobile lobbyists who always successfully stop politicians from making it happen.

[bladefd]

Did you know that many apprenticeships actually pay you to attend them? Atleast that's how it is in the UK, dunno how it is in the US.

You GET PAID to learn an EMPLOYABLE SKILL, and when your apprenticeship ends, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE WORK. If you do an apprenticeship to become a plumber, or a mechanic, or an electrician, or an air conditioning engineer, you can start your own business and make BANK.

So basically, you get paid to learn a valuable skill that is always useful to society and pays well. You only spend 2-3 years in work experience rather than 4 like at uni. You get REAL ON THE JOB EXPERIENCE.


Doesn't work like that in America afaik.. no such thing as guaranteed work.

You have to pay for it unless if you have some sort of disability (physical or mental) or if you are someone that gets in trouble a lot with drugs/authority/etc & need vocational rehab. There is also small limited vocational schooling if you are extremely poor or a legal refugee receiving asylum. Some high schools have limited vocational schooling if you have very troubled upbringing and/or parents are drunkards or something crazy.

You surely don't get paid for attending vocational school though lol. They will often help you look for a job by setting you up with a job coach to guide you in job search. Once again, no guarantee you will get a job.

[falc39]

This rant was way too long, but I'm so sick of SF having so many rich people and also having such terrible public transportation + housing + homelessness + nonviolent loiterers. I'm living in Seoul right now and there are 10,000,000 people here (there are 900,000 in SF). There is a subway system that connects the entire city, it is easy to get anywhere affordably, housing is affordable, and they have every tech/Western food etc you could want. It makes no sense that SF is such a shithole (except for that top 5%) and some city in Asia dominates it in so many ways.

There are many reasons for why SF is the way it is. A lot of it is geographical. Just not enough space to expand outward. That actually applies to the whole bay area. But it's ironic that you mention SF, a bastion of liberal policies, because the rest of the fault for SF being so horribly mismanaged really comes down to central planning by the government. Regulations of land use and rent control have stunted the growth in the city backwards. Horribly backwards. To the point that the damage still being felt stemming back from decades. And yet there are still some people who will hold back the city because they don't want change. They will protest. They will try their best to keep other people out. These people can be the working poor and they display a different type of greed and selfishness.

And that is the problem with the mentality that every problem can be solved through taxation and/or regulation, because it can't. California has some of the highest tax rates, yet the infrastructure horribly lags behind other states. There are potholes and crumbling roads everywhere. At the same time we are trying to build a high speed rail (which isn't really high speed at all) up and down the whole state, a mind boggling project that was represented to taxpayers at a fraction of the cost of which it has exploded into today. Who is there to regulate the government? To rein in the corruption and wasteful spending? What do you do when the intellectual central planners, who are by the way highly educated, fail with their duties? People distrust the greed of the market, yet their solution involves entrusting other "selected" people with the responsibilities of regulating the market or planning some kind of utopia. They don't realize that the government itself is just as susceptible to that same greed and that greed will end up manifesting regardless (only now completely backed by the law). All these planners, who have wild dreams of being able to manage our tax dollars are sometimes the most clueless.

[Nick Young]

Doesn't work like that in America afaik.. no such thing as guaranteed work.

You have to pay for it unless if you have some sort of disability (physical or mental) or if you are someone that gets in trouble a lot with drugs/authority/etc & need vocational rehab. There is also small limited vocational schooling if you are extremely poor or a legal refugee receiving asylum. Some high schools have limited vocational schooling if you have very troubled upbringing and/or parents are drunkards or something crazy.

You surely don't get paid for attending vocational school though lol. They will often help you look for a job by setting you up with a job coach to guide you in job search. Once again, no guarantee you will get a job.
If you have a skill that is always in high demand, like electical engineering, plumbing or fixing cars, there is. Of course, if you suck at your apprenticeship, they won't hire you on afterwards.

Some people are so retarded they can't do anything. It is good so many Taco Bells and McDonalds exist.

Do you really think these retards who aren't capable of anything more than assembling taco bell tacos should be allowed in to universities for free so they can hold the entire class back and waste everyone's time?

[bladefd]

Why do you use cynic like it's an insult? It isn't. The world isn't a Disney movie brah. What you call cynical, others call being realistic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a cynic. Do you have a problem with Diogenes too?I know you had to google Diogenes bro, because you didn't know who he was. What a great education you have. Did you get it at an American university?

It is not good to be a cynic. You act as if almost everyone is acting against you or trying to take you down. You turn every disagreement others have with you into a personal attack or name calling session. Don't turn into Trump because he is notorious for that.

Rather than being cynical of almost everyone and everything, accept something called healthy skepticism. Google it up since I doubt you know the difference between that and cynicism. Cynicism is dangerous because you automatically instantly assume people are after you. Healthy skepticism is when you question someone without assuming they must have ulterior motive for disagreeing with you. Quit getting obnoxious and defensive - it is all I see from you on these boards.

[bladefd]

If you have a skill that is always in high demand, like electical engineering, plumbing or fixing cars, there is. Of course, if you suck at your apprenticeship, they won't hire you on afterwards.

Some people are so retarded they can't do anything. It is good so many Taco Bells and McDonalds exist.

Do you really think these retards who aren't capable of anything more than assembling taco bell tacos should be allowed in to universities for free so they can hold the entire class back and waste everyone's time?

Well, there are internships. Usually not paid but you get resume accolades and recommendation.

I am sure there is apprenticeship but paid? Rare in USA. It is usually nonpaid. Even if you got paid, it would be tiny amounts. Experience counts more than anything and if they truly like your work, they could and may hire you. Again, not guaranteed even if they like your work.

Sometimes they get internships just to get free work done (not like they would ever admit it openly as it is illegal).

[Nick Young]

It is not good to be a cynic.
Why? What is a good way to be?




You act as if almost everyone is acting against you or trying to take you down. You turn every disagreement others have with you into a personal attack or name calling session.

How so breh? Post examples.



Don't turn into Trump because he is notorious for that.
What's with the personal attacks and namecalling sessions breh?



Rather than being cynical of almost everyone and everything, accept something called healthy skepticism. Google it up since I doubt you know the difference between that and cynicism. Cynicism is dangerous because you automatically instantly assume people are after you. Healthy skepticism is when you question someone without assuming they must have ulterior motive for disagreeing with you. Quit getting obnoxious and defensive - it is all I see from you on these boards.

thanks for the life lesson breh:cheers:XD this guy

[masonanddixon]

If the government got out of the student loan business, college would be affordable just like it was before the government got into it.

THIS. It's the second most profitable enterprise outside of the defense industry.

A country profiting off its youth trying to make something of their lives.

A generation of Baby Boomers who were all entitled to a free education have now turned around and made billions in profit while leaving a generation in thousands and thousands of dollars in debt and with no hope of ever owning a hope or having gainful employment.

[UK2K]

Ok, lets make vocational school free for everyone for 2 years. From speculation tax of .005%.

What do the cynics like you, UK2K, PatrickChewing, NickYoung, and others have to say to that? Will you blow a gasket now too bc I said to make vocational school free for everyone? Keep in mind vocational school is also considered higher education.

I've wanted to do that for a long time.

No cost job training is something very feasible, and gives people an alternative to paying for college. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters, mechanics... those jobs do not require a 'degree' but they do require an education. I'm all for the government offering free vocational education. There is no room and board, or high priced professors to pay. Just learning technical skills. Diesel mechanics are in high demand, plumbers and electricians are always needed.

And, in terms of monetary cost, it would be a fraction of what no cost college would be. Win/win for everyone, IMO.

[Dbrog]

I'm not even joking. In my job I interviewed a final year psych student who refused to take evolutionary psychology because it went against their religion, and they didn't know who Freud and Jung were. They were able to graduate their course and obtain a psychology degree. I wish I was making this up. But that is the kind of moron being passed through the UK university system. Now this moron is walking around with a psychology degree. A psychology degree used to mean something. Now you can skip learning a fundamental part of the field (evolutionary psychology), not know who Freud and Jung are (I still don't get how you can sit through a 3 year psych course and not know that, either the course was shit or the kid was phucking retarded, I'm going to go with both) and still obtain a degree in the UK and become a practicing psychologist. I can only assume that the US having a higher population means it also has a higher amount of morons than exists in the UK.


:oldlol: Unless that person was a doctoral student, they aren't anywhere close to becoming a practicing psychologist. Still though, I see your point. An undergrad who doesn't know about the most famous names in their field is just sad and it shows teachers aren't doing their job that this person was able to graduate...unless he/she was cheating. Besides that, the administration there is clearly weak. If someone tried to say "I can't take this class cause my religion" in the US, they would get told to take it or they don't get their degree. Universities don't **** around and it's their way or the highway. This wouldn't change (hopefully) if colleges were free. However, if they became high school 2.0, it would be disastrous :(

[Giaodollo]

We have free collage. We pay it with taxes.

[BoutPractice]

The actual quality of the education that American and British higher ed institutions deliver at an absurdly high price isn't significantly higher than what continental European universities that cost almost nothing have to offer.

The main difference is that the colleges and universities in America and the UK have a better brand, and as a result their degrees are more effective as a signaling device in the global marketplace. What they're selling is effectively a name.

[Nick Young]

:oldlol: Unless that person was a doctoral student, they aren't anywhere close to becoming a practicing psychologist. Still though, I see your point. An undergrad who doesn't know about the most famous names in their field is just sad and it shows teachers aren't doing their job that this person was able to graduate...unless he/she was cheating. Besides that, the administration there is clearly weak. If someone tried to say "I can't take this class cause my religion" in the US, they would get told to take it or they don't get their degree. Universities don't **** around and it's their way or the highway. This wouldn't change (hopefully) if colleges were free. However, if they became high school 2.0, it would be disastrous :(
It is two things-the universities are afraid of upsetting Muslim students and getting negative "Islamophobic" press against them, as it is mainly Muslim students who are outright refusing to learn evolutionary psychology, and evolution in other courses.

I sat in a meeting where the psych course leaders brought this up to the Deputy Vice Chancellor and Ethics and Diversity officer and asked what they should do when students refused to learn evolutionary psychology and walked out of the classroom. They weren't aware how they should test the students in the future. The teachers were told to just make sure they get to the next year, and don't make a big deal to the students, and warn them before you start speaking about evolutionary biology in case anyone wants to leave the class. They also began implying that the psych teachers should also teach "alternative theories" such as intelligent design so the students "have a clearer picture".

ARE YOU PHUCKING SERIOUS?

I hope this same shit doesn't happen in other fields but I have no doubt it does, in universities across the UK.

The second thing is, the Unis get the money from these students so they do everything they can to accommodate them, even if they're actually retarded. To the unis, it's worth lowering their standards rather than losing out on 2-3 years of a students tuition because they transfer or drop out.

I don't want this to happen in the United States but if you start letting every moron in to university, I'm afraid it will.
Remember, if university is free, every single university will now be competing with other universities for a finite amount of students. When this happens, unis lower their standards to attract the lowest common denominator, because that's just what the majority of people are in the world. It happened in the UK and it will happen in the US.


Not everyone belongs in university. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[BoutPractice]

Universities can be highly selective and not cost the equivalent of a whole year of salary.

I don't think they should be free, but they clearly shouldn't be as expensive as they are right now.

[Dbrog]

Stuff about UK unis

That's actually really crazy and sad. I hadn't realized that this "political correctness" trend had extended its grasp to Europe, or at least the UK. Your statements certainly show the dangers of how this movement can progress and really...what does it teach people? I think it perpetuates already growing feelings of entitlement and actually ends up separating people more since everything is put into specific categories now. Also, what happens to social justice? You suddenly have people losing their jobs or even being tried in court for literally just saying something to someone or as a result of the other person regretting their decisions/interactions in hindsight. Such a slippery slope...

[Nick Young]

Yep, I've seen how this whole "uni for everyone" movement has f*cked shit up in the UK, that's why I don't want it to happen in the US with Sanders or Clinton repeating Blair's mistakes.

[NumberSix]

Yep, I've seen how this whole "uni for everyone" movement has f*cked shit up in the UK, that's why I don't want it to happen in the US with Sanders or Clinton repeating Blair's mistakes.
Isn't it only "free" for people who are allegedly Scottish?

[Nick Young]

Isn't it only "free" for people who are allegedly Scottish?
They give student loans to anyone who wants them, regardless of how stupid they are, so I guess technically it isn't "free".

But I don't see how the US version of "free uni for everyone" will be any different.

I don't know if Scottish are given free education, if so, that's funny, the rest of the UK must be pissed about that.

[bladefd]

They give student loans to anyone who wants them, regardless of how stupid they are, so I guess technically it isn't "free".

But I don't see how the US version of "free uni for everyone" will be any different.

You should see how high the interest rates are on college loans in USA. You would see how outrageous the issue is. It is almost unaffordable unless if you go to community college.

I tell people to go to in-state colleges and commute. Saves lots of money. I did that and saved HUGE money while ending with a marketable degree in IT from Rutgers. You don't have to go to Stanford or UPenn or NYU or MIT to get a Bachelors degree because you learn same stuff.

It only matters for Masters or PhD -- choose the college depending on who you will be learning under & who you want to learn under. For BSc or BA? Forget it. Save money by going in-state & commute.

[kurple]

We have free collage. We pay it with taxes.
This. We even get paid to study beyond high school

America is still in the 1900's

[kurple]

Student loans in Norway is the shit.. Almost no intrest and you can pay it off til you're 70 or some shit.

60% of it you don't even have to pay back. Unless you drop out

[UK2K]

Bernie Sanders ✔ @BernieSanders
It makes no sense that students and their parents pay higher interest rates for college than they pay for car loans or housing mortgages.

You all want THIS dude for president? Seriously? :lol

Is he that dumb?

[kurple]

How is that stupid? Education is the key to continue to grow as a society

If what he said is true ofc

[UK2K]

Student loans in Norway is the shit.. Almost no intrest and you can pay it off til you're 70 or some shit.

60% of it you don't even have to pay back. Unless you drop out

US Labor Force Participation Rate - 62.6%

Norway Labor Force Participation Rate - 71.6%

Norway has more people paying for less bums. I wonder how much money the US would save if our participation rate was 72%, and we cut off ~13% of off our welfare bill every year.

Roughly $50 billion per year or so.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/

According to this website, about $62 billion per year would do it.

[UK2K]

How is that stupid? Education is the key to continue to grow as a society

If what he said is true ofc

Because home and car loans have thing a called collateral? Student loans have are given out on... good faith?

More risk, higher rate.

Oh, and there's this:


The share of auto loans newly in default ticked down to an annualized 0.85% in June — the lowest reading since the data series started in mid-2004 — from 0.86% in May and 0.96% in June 2014, S&P Dow Jones Indices and Experian reported, using a three-month rolling average.

Meanwhile, the default rate for first mortgages was 0.80% in June, up a bit from May’s record low of 0.74%, but down from 0.89% a year earlier. And defaults for credit cards issued by banks fell to 2.88% in June, a relatively low reading, from 3.02% a year earlier.

The default rate for student loans is around 12-14%.

Again, more risk, higher rate. That's how economics work.

[ALBballer]

They give student loans to anyone who wants them, regardless of how stupid they are, so I guess technically it isn't "free".

But I don't see how the US version of "free uni for everyone" will be any different.

I don't know if Scottish are given free education, if so, that's funny, the rest of the UK must be pissed about that.

Government loans are also easily available in the United States. As NumberSix mentioned, the introduction of these student loans is the reason why private unis are so expensive in the US.

[kurple]

US Labor Force Participation Rate - 62.6%

Norway Labor Force Participation Rate - 71.6%

Norway has more people paying for less bums. I wonder how much money the US would save if our participation rate was 72%, and we cut off ~13% of off our welfare bill every year.

Roughly $50 billion per year or so.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/heres-exactly-how-much-the-government-would-have-to-spend-to-make-public-college-tuition-free/282803/

According to this website, about $62 billion per year would do it.

what does this mean?

i get paid to smoke weed and study two times a year.

i win, u lose

[kurple]

Because home and car loans have thing a called collateral? Student loans have are given out on... good faith?

More risk, higher rate.

Oh, and there's this:



The default rate for student loans is around 12-14%.

Again, more risk, higher rate. That's how economics work.
you can find ways to argue anything.. literally anything

Education is still key to the modern society.. and its pathetic to still see systems wher certain people dont have a chance to get sed education

[UK2K]

you can find ways to argue anything.. literally anything

Education is still key to the modern society.. and its pathetic to still see systems wher certain people dont have a chance to get sed education

You're a bank. You have three people wanting loans.

Guy A wants a $30,000 loan for a car.
Guy B wants a $200,000 loan for a house.
Guy C wants a $80,000 loan for college.

If Guy A and Guy B don't pay you, you can take the car/house, sell it, and get your money back. If Guy C doesn't pay you.... then what? That's called risk. With no collateral, and default rates 15x mortgage and auto loans, the interest is going to be high. That's how life works. I wouldn't expect you to loan money to someone because its the right thing to do.

Community College, when I went three years ago, was about $1500 a semester with books and all. Why can't people go that route?

[NumberSix]

you can find ways to argue anything.. literally anything

Education is still key to the modern society.. and its pathetic to still see systems wher certain people dont have a chance to get sed education
No, it isn't. The key to prosperity is is productivity. Every person, unless physically or mentally handicapped has the ability to be productive.

The problem is, the government education system doesn't teach people basic economics. They teach idiotic ideas like somehow people that create wealth are taking wealth away from people who don't create wealth. Or that it is somehow economically beneficial for only some people to be productive and shift credit from them to people who aren't productive. It makes no sense, but it doesn't have to make sense. You just enough voters to not understand basic economics to give you government power which you then use to make sure government education doesn't teach.

There's a reason why people who go to private schools do better in life. It's not because they know the right people. It's not because they're privileged. It's because they go to schools that teach basic reality. Their education isn't government propaganda. So maybe your right. Education is the key. NON-government education.

[bladefd]

Community College, when I went three years ago, was about $1500 a semester with books and all. Why can't people go that route?

You could. Degree on resume won't be as respected as a university and there will not be much variety in course/degree choices. Best option is to take basic courses like Calc 1, intro courses, etc at community college for 2 years then transfer to university for the more advanced courses & to finish degree there. I should have done that myself.

I chose the route of in-state college + commute. After federal/state financial aid, scholarship, subsidized loan (I didn't even take a loan every semester).. it ended up costing under $10,000 total for everything included (all semesters included). My parents paid that so I'm debt-free. I still need to find a very good job before I can say I'm set :lol

You just have to be smart with your decisions. A few HS friends of mine were like "I'm out of this state. I don't want to be around people I might recognize." Who cares if people might recognize you? You say "Hello", talk for 30 seconds and walk on if you don't like them. For that foolish reason, they will be paying back loans for 10 or more years after graduating. Either that or their parents will :confusedshrug: :no:

[UK2K]

Universities can be highly selective and not cost the equivalent of a whole year of salary.

I don't think they should be free, but they clearly shouldn't be as expensive as they are right now.

Demand says they can charge whatever they want if some are willing to pay it.

[Nick Young]

Student loans in Norway is the shit.. Almost no intrest and you can pay it off til you're 70 or some shit.

60% of it you don't even have to pay back. Unless you drop out
Norway is an oil rich nation with only 4 million people in it. Do not project your elitist first estate imperialist values upon the United States, a nation over 90 times larger than yours.

Your oil based gravy train will not last forever bro. Enjoy it while you can.

[Jailblazers7]

Demand says they can charge whatever they want if some are willing to pay it.

Then let's at least take away their tax-exempt status if we are going to go with that philosophy.


No, it isn't. The key to prosperity is is productivity. Every person, unless physically or mentally handicapped has the ability to be productive.

The problem is, the government education system doesn't teach people basic economics. They teach idiotic ideas like somehow people that create wealth are taking wealth away from people who don't create wealth. Or that it is somehow economically beneficial for only some people to be productive and shift credit from them to people who aren't productive. It makes no sense, but it doesn't have to make sense. You just enough voters to not understand basic economics to give you government power which you then use to make sure government education doesn't teach.

There's a reason why people who go to private schools do better in life. It's not because they know the right people. It's not because they're privileged. It's because they go to schools that teach basic reality. Their education isn't government propaganda. So maybe your right. Education is the key. NON-government education.

:oldlol:

So education doesn't improve productivity? And I think the level of private school funding might have a little something to do with the difference in outcomes.

[NumberSix]

So education doesn't improve productivity? And I think the level of private school funding might have a little something to do with the difference in outcomes.
Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. An education in engineering is obviously valuable in creating and improving products.

Some "educations" are not valuable though. I can tell you, the people designing the newest Apple gadgets are not people with educational backgrounds in "women's studies" or other nonsense sociology degrees. These are snake-oil courses.

[DeuceWallaces]

You could. Degree on resume won't be as respected as a university and there will not be much variety in course/degree choices. Best option is to take basic courses like Calc 1, intro courses, etc at community college for 2 years then transfer to university for the more advanced courses & to finish degree there. I should have done that myself.

I chose the route of in-state college + commute. After federal/state financial aid, scholarship, subsidized loan (I didn't even take a loan every semester).. it ended up costing under $10,000 total for everything included (all semesters included). My parents paid that so I'm debt-free. I still need to find a very good job before I can say I'm set :lol

You just have to be smart with your decisions. A few HS friends of mine were like "I'm out of this state. I don't want to be around people I might recognize." Who cares if people might recognize you? You say "Hello", talk for 30 seconds and walk on if you don't like them. For that foolish reason, they will be paying back loans for 10 or more years after graduating. Either that or their parents will :confusedshrug: :no:

Yeah, CC is a joke. Pretty much a worthless piece of paper no matter how cheap it is. Two years of CC into 2 years of a standard university is a good idea, but you better be prepared for a massive increase in workload and expectations going from a CC to 300 and 400 Big Ten classes.