Why is every golden era/GOAT player from the 80's/90's

[GIF REACTION]

In most major pro sports?

NBA - Jordan

NFL - Jerry Rice

MLB - Barry Bonds

All 3 of these guys literally started their careers in the early/mid 80's, and finished in the early/mid 2000's

Global expansion, Exposure boom, rampant PED usage before the public scrutiny which came in the early 2000's

The NBA didn't even have PED tests til 1999

[warriorfan]

Jerry Rice GOAT
Barry Bonds GOAT
Michael Jordan GOAT

[GIF REACTION]

Jerry Rice GOAT
Barry Bonds GOAT
Michael Jordan GOAT
Yeah Bay Area dominates pro sports

[poido123]

Yet your hero Lequeen been chomping down, injecting PED's faster than any of the GOAT's could.


Lebron greatest PED abuser of all time!



:banana: :banana: :banana:

[riseagainst]

except Tom Brady is now the GOAT. Jerry Rice is a close 2nd though.

[kshutts1]

None of them are the unquestioned GOATs in their respective sports.

Since a label like "GOAT" is so subjective, it's generally given to different players for different generations. It just so happens that the "80's generation" is the one that's dominating the media outlets right now, so they're all shoving their opinions down our throats as fact, and most people are naive enough to believe them.

Edit: And you forgot Gretzky. Is he not also from that time?

[OldSchoolBBall]

None of them are the unquestioned GOATs in their respective sports.

Since a label like "GOAT" is so subjective, it's generally given to different players for different generations. It just so happens that the "80's generation" is the one that's dominating the media outlets right now, so they're all shoving their opinions down our throats as fact, and most people are naive enough to believe them.

lol

[ArbitraryWater]

None of them are the unquestioned GOATs in their respective sports.

Since a label like "GOAT" is so subjective, it's generally given to different players for different generations. It just so happens that the "80's generation" is the one that's dominating the media outlets right now, so they're all shoving their opinions down our throats as fact, and most people are naive enough to believe them.

Edit: And you forgot Gretzky. Is he not also from that time?

lol

[kshutts1]

None of them are the unquestioned GOATs in their respective sports.

Since a label like "GOAT" is so subjective, it's generally given to different players for different generations. It just so happens that the "80's generation" is the one that's dominating the media outlets right now, so they're all shoving their opinions down our throats as fact, and most people are naive enough to believe them.

Edit: And you forgot Gretzky. Is he not also from that time?
lol

so this is what it feels like to be an ishiot. Interesting.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yet your hero Lequeen been chomping down, injecting PED's faster than any of the GOAT's could.


Lebron greatest PED abuser of all time!



:banana: :banana: :banana:

You're going to acknowledge Barry Bonds as the GOAT and then turn around and accuse LeBron of using steroids? :roll:

[Sarcastic]

Barry Bonds is not the GOAT baseball player.

[Psileas]

None of them are the unquestioned GOATs in their respective sports.

Since a label like "GOAT" is so subjective, it's generally given to different players for different generations. It just so happens that the "80's generation" is the one that's dominating the media outlets right now, so they're all shoving their opinions down our throats as fact, and most people are naive enough to believe them.

Edit: And you forgot Gretzky. Is he not also from that time?

:applause:

[warriorfan]

Barry Bonds is not the GOAT baseball player.

:biggums:

[kennethgriffin]

it can be argued that....


Bill russell is the GOAT basketball player

Ruth/Mays are the GOAT baseball players

Bobby Orr is the GOAT hockey player

Jim Brown is the GOAT football player

Sugar Ray/Ali are the GOAT boxers

Jack Nicklaus is the GOAT golfer





so...

[Sarcastic]

:biggums:

No legitimate baseball fan thinks of Barroid as the GOAT, I should say.

Ruth, or Mays are the consensus.

[kennethgriffin]

:biggums:



a) mays was a better all around player

b) ruth was a dominant pitcher aswell

c) bonds cheated

[warriorfan]

old white people don't thinks of Barry Bonds as the GOAT, I should say.

Ruth, or Mays are the consensus.

Fixed.

Watch the games. Check the stat books. Your eyes will not lie. The numbers will not lie. Barry Bonds is the GOAT. No one gives a fucc what some old racist sports writers write. Those guys are insanely biased.

[Sarcastic]

Bonds' numbers are all fake. He won't even get in the Hall of Fame.

[kennethgriffin]

Fixed.

Watch the games. Check the stat books. Your eyes will not lie. The numbers will not lie. Barry Bonds is the GOAT. No one gives a fucc what some old racist sports writers write. Those guys are insanely biased.


bonds is the goat offensive POWER player if you dont discount steroids

sure



but there 2 sides to the game. ruth and mays were basically a hair under bonds production

WITHOUT the advancements, roids, hgh, body armour, equipment, shortened fences


babe ruth was batting in old yankee stadium with a 461 foot center field wall



that and bonds wasnt half the outfielder willie mays was... nore did he possess 1/10th the pitching skills babe ruth had






bonds is not the GOAT.. dude won jack sh*t... ruth carried his franchise to 7 world titles.

[kennethgriffin]

ontop of all that... ruth hit over 700 homeruns while batting .342 his whole career



bonds hit .298 lifetime

[warriorfan]

a) mays was a better all around player

b) ruth was a dominant pitcher aswell

c) bonds cheated

Mays was not a better all around player.

How many 40 Home Runs / 40 Stolen Bases seasons does Willie Mays have?

Barry did it in 1996, well before he was juicing. Barry started juicing after Sosa and Mcguire surpassed him after it was widely known they were on another tier or two below Bonds on talent. Everyone knew why Sammy Sosa came out of nowhere. After those seasons is when Barry evened the odds.

Ruth was in a different era. He played literally 100 years ago.

http://s8.postimg.org/5vxyp8bnp/babe_ruth_car.jpg

That was what cars looked like when Babe Ruth played baseball... If he played today he wouldn't be nearly as dominant.

[warriorfan]

bonds is the goat offensive POWER player if you dont discount steroids

sure



but there 2 sides to the game. ruth and mays were basically a hair under bonds production

WITHOUT the advancements, roids, hgh, body armour, equipment, shortened fences


babe ruth was batting in old yankee stadium with a 461 foot center field wall



that and bonds wasnt half the outfielder willie mays was... nore did he possess 1/10th the pitching skills babe ruth had






bonds is not the GOAT.. dude won jack sh*t... ruth carried his franchise to 7 world titles.

Candlestick Park was the furthest thing from a hitters park. Especially after they fully enclosed it in 1971.

[warriorfan]

ontop of all that... ruth hit over 700 homeruns while batting .342 his whole career



bonds hit .298 lifetime

On base + slugging percentage is widely accepted as the most accurate way to gauge offensive performance. Let's also remember that this was 100 years ago. It was just a totally different era with way less talent. You are sitting here and trying to argue George Mikan over Michael Jordan. Not a good look my friend.

[TommyGriffin]

They were lucky my son wasn't in the league yet.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Fixed.

Watch the games. Check the stat books. Your eyes will not lie. The numbers will not lie. Barry Bonds is the GOAT. No one gives a fucc what some old racist sports writers write. Those guys are insanely biased.

Pre-roids Bonds may have been on track to finish his career as the GOAT but he decided to try taking the easy way out and tainted his legacy in the process.

Of his 22 year career, only the first 14 are valid.

1986-1999: .288/.409/.559 (164 OPS+)

2000-2007: .322/.517/.724 (221 OPS+)

Bonds' all-time OPS+ WITH the juiced numbers is 3rd all-time (behind Williams and Ruth) but the 164 OPS+ that he posted while clean moves him down to 10th. Had he finished his career without steroids, regression would likely have dropped him further. His offensive numbers with the effects of steroids aren't enough to establish him as the best hitter ever, and without them he leaves the discussion entirely.

Compare the pre-steroids line (.288/.409/.559) to Ted Williams' line (who I consider to be the greatest hitter ever): .344/.482/.634. Not even close, and that's with Williams missing several years in his prime.

Now, for defense. Defensive numbers are more difficult to deal with as sabermetrics have introduced many ways of evaluating players.

Defensive WAR: Bonds is 398th.

Fielding % among OF: Bonds is 273rd.

Putouts among OF: Bonds is 8th (1400 behind the #1 OF, Willy Mays)

Assists among OF: Bonds is 81st

Total Zone Runs: Bonds is 6th, 100 runs behind the leader.

You claim that the stats don't lie, and you're right about that. Offensively, he was great but nowhere near the greatest. Defensively, the same thing applies.

If you'd like to go to the eye test, we can do that too, but Griffey's vastly superior aesthetic value relative to Bonds makes it clear how inaccurate a measure that can be in baseball. The eye test is why some people still believe that Jeter was an amazing defensive shortstop, something that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[warriorfan]

Pre-roids Bonds may have been on track to finish his career as the GOAT but he decided to try taking the easy way out and tainted his legacy in the process.

Of his 22 year career, only the first 14 are valid.

1986-1999: .288/.409/.559 (164 OPS+)

2000-2007: .322/.517/.724 (221 OPS+)

Bonds' all-time OPS+ WITH the juiced numbers is 3rd all-time (behind Williams and Ruth) but the 164 OPS+ that he posted while clean moves him down to 10th. Had he finished his career without steroids, regression would likely have dropped him further. His offensive numbers with the effects of steroids aren't enough to establish him as the best hitter ever, and without them he leaves the discussion entirely.

Compare the pre-steroids line (.288/.409/.559) to Ted Williams' line (who I consider to be the greatest hitter ever): .344/.482/.634. Not even close, and that's with Williams missing several years in his prime.

Now, for defense. Defensive numbers are more difficult to deal with as sabermetrics have introduced many ways of evaluating players.

Defensive WAR: Bonds is 398th.

Fielding % among OF: Bonds is 273rd.

Putouts among OF: Bonds is 8th (1400 behind the #1 OF, Willy Mays)

Assists among OF: Bonds is 81st

Total Zone Runs: Bonds is 6th, 100 runs behind the leader.

You claim that the stats don't lie, and you're right about that. Offensively, he was great but nowhere near the greatest. Defensively, the same thing applies.

If you'd like to go to the eye test, we can do that too, but Griffey's vastly superior aesthetic value relative to Bonds makes it clear how inaccurate a measure that can be in baseball. The eye test is why some people still believe that Jeter was an amazing defensive shortstop, something that couldn't be farther from the truth.

You are being ridiculous.

Why are you trying to penalize Barry Bonds for using PEDs. The entire league was using. When your competition is using you have to use as well. Barry Bonds got into the steroid game extremely late. The numbers you are taking are from when Barry was facing roided out pitchers while he wasn't on the same playing level.

If you think Babe Ruth had to deal with roided out Eirc Gagnes throwing 103 miles per hour than you are absolutely insane.

Also great how you don't ever mention stolen bases once in your post. Same way how you post Nash stuff and never mention the word defense. You are not only a poster with little knowledge, even worse you are a poster that is dishonest.

[kennethgriffin]

Ruth 10 best years:

1920 - .376 average, 158 runs, 135 rbi, 54 homeruns, .847 slug, 11.9 WAR
1921 - .378 average, 177 runs, 168 rbi, 59 homeruns, .846 slug, 12.9 WAR
1923 - .393 average, 151 runs, 130 rbi, 41 homeruns, .764 slug, 14.1 WAR
1924 - .378 average, 143 runs, 124 rbi, 46 homeruns, .739 slug, 11.7 WAR
1926 - .372 average, 139 runs, 153 rbi, 47 homeruns, .737 slug, 11.5 WAR
1927 - .356 average, 158 runs, 165 rbi, 60 homeruns, .772 slug, 12.4 WAR
1928 - .323 average, 163 runs, 146 rbi, 54 homeruns, .709 slug, 10.1 WAR
1929 - .345 average, 121 runs, 154 rbi, 46 homeruns, .697 slug, 8.0 WAR
1930 - .359 average, 150 runs, 153 rbi, 49 homeruns, .732 slug, 10.3 WAR
1931 - .373 average, 149 runs, 162 rbi, 46 homeruns, .700 slug, 10.3 WAR




Bonds 10 best years:

1990 - .301 average, 104 runs, 114 rbi, 33 homeruns, .565 slug, 9.7 WAR
1992 - .311 average, 109 runs, 103 rbi, 34 homeruns, .624 slug, 9.0 WAR
1993 - .336 average, 129 runs, 123 rbi, 46 homeruns, .677 slug, 9.9 WAR
1996 - .308 average, 122 runs, 129 rbi, 42 homeruns, .615 slug, 9.6 WAR
1997 - .291 average, 123 runs, 101 rbi, 40 homeruns, .585 slug, 8.1 WAR
1998 - .303 average, 120 runs, 122 rbi, 37 homeruns, .609 slug, 8.1 WAR
2000 - .306 average, 129 runs, 106 rbi, 49 homeruns, .688 slug, 7.7 WAR
2001 - .328 average, 129 runs, 137 rbi, 73 homeruns, .863 slug, 11.9 WAR
2002 - .370 average, 117 runs, 110 rbi, 46 homeruns, .799 slug, 11.8 WAR
2004 - .362 average, 129 runs, 101 rbi, 45 homeruns, .812 slug, 10.6 WAR



and i dont give a sh*t about a stolen base. thats calculated into "runs" if you score anyway







i'm not even factoring in these seasons by ruth


1915 - 18 wins, 8 losses, 2.44 ERA, 16complete games, 1 shut out
1916 - 23 wins, 12 losses, 1.75 ERA, 23 complete games, 9 shut outs
1917 - 24 wins, 13 losses, 2.01 ERA, 35 complete games, 6 shut outs
1918 - 13 wins, 7 losses, 2.22 ERA, 18 complete games, 1 shut out
1919 - 9 wins, 5 losses, 2.97 ERA, 12 complete games





the great bambino, the sultan of swat, the king of crash.

some say he was less than a god. but more than a man


black people these days scoff at the idea of a white man being the GOAT

theyre in denial.. pure and simple


Babe Ruth is the GOAT




http://comblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Talk-is-Cheap.jpg

dude called his own shot for christ sake

[riseagainst]

Ruth played against a lesser population of top athletes and talents. So automatically all of his stats should be cut down by 1/3.

[ralph_i_el]

it can be argued that....


Bill russell is the GOAT basketball player

Ruth/Mays are the GOAT baseball players

Bobby Orr is the GOAT hockey player

Jim Brown is the GOAT football player

Sugar Ray/Ali are the GOAT boxers

Jack Nicklaus is the GOAT golfer





so...



Except everyone who watched them play is dead or senile.

In 20 years all the goats will be from this era

[warriorfan]

Ruth 10 best years:

1920 - .376 average, 158 runs, 135 rbi, 54 homeruns, .847 slug, 11.9 WAR
1921 - .378 average, 177 runs, 168 rbi, 59 homeruns, .846 slug, 12.9 WAR
1923 - .393 average, 151 runs, 130 rbi, 41 homeruns, .764 slug, 14.1 WAR
1924 - .378 average, 143 runs, 124 rbi, 46 homeruns, .739 slug, 11.7 WAR
1926 - .372 average, 139 runs, 153 rbi, 47 homeruns, .737 slug, 11.5 WAR
1927 - .356 average, 158 runs, 165 rbi, 60 homeruns, .772 slug, 12.4 WAR
1928 - .323 average, 163 runs, 146 rbi, 54 homeruns, .709 slug, 10.1 WAR
1929 - .345 average, 121 runs, 154 rbi, 46 homeruns, .697 slug, 8.0 WAR
1930 - .359 average, 150 runs, 153 rbi, 49 homeruns, .732 slug, 10.3 WAR
1931 - .373 average, 149 runs, 162 rbi, 46 homeruns, .700 slug, 10.3 WAR




Bonds 10 best years:

1990 - .301 average, 104 runs, 114 rbi, 33 homeruns, .565 slug, 9.7 WAR
1992 - .311 average, 109 runs, 103 rbi, 34 homeruns, .624 slug, 9.0 WAR
1993 - .336 average, 129 runs, 123 rbi, 46 homeruns, .677 slug, 9.9 WAR
1996 - .308 average, 122 runs, 129 rbi, 42 homeruns, .615 slug, 9.6 WAR
1997 - .291 average, 123 runs, 101 rbi, 40 homeruns, .585 slug, 8.1 WAR
1998 - .303 average, 120 runs, 122 rbi, 37 homeruns, .609 slug, 8.1 WAR
2000 - .306 average, 129 runs, 106 rbi, 49 homeruns, .688 slug, 7.7 WAR
2001 - .328 average, 129 runs, 137 rbi, 73 homeruns, .863 slug, 11.9 WAR
2002 - .370 average, 117 runs, 110 rbi, 46 homeruns, .799 slug, 11.8 WAR
2004 - .362 average, 129 runs, 101 rbi, 45 homeruns, .812 slug, 10.6 WAR



and i dont give a sh*t about a stolen base. thats calculated into "runs" if you score anyway







i'm not even factoring in these seasons by ruth


1915 - 18 wins, 8 losses, 2.44 ERA, 16complete games, 1 shut out
1916 - 23 wins, 12 losses, 1.75 ERA, 23 complete games, 9 shut outs
1917 - 24 wins, 13 losses, 2.01 ERA, 35 complete games, 6 shut outs
1918 - 13 wins, 7 losses, 2.22 ERA, 18 complete games, 1 shut out
1919 - 9 wins, 5 losses, 2.97 ERA, 12 complete games





the great bambino, the sultan of swat, the king of crash.

some say he was less than a god. but more than a man


black people these days scoff at the idea of a white man being the GOAT

theyre in denial.. pure and simple


Babe Ruth is the GOAT




http://comblu.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Talk-is-Cheap.jpg

dude called his own shot for christ sake

Segregated soft serve league.

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/0910/mlb.10.best.hitters/images/ty-cobb.jpg

Look what happened after they let black guys play.

Mays, Aaron, Bonds.

[kennethgriffin]

Ruth played against a lesser population of top athletes and talents. So automatically all of his stats should be cut down by 1/3.


baseball is barely even athletic to begin with. its 90% skill


does prince fielder look like hes in top physical condition?


allot of baseball players are gassed running to first base


you could put babe ruth in todays game and he doesn't skip a beat

infact he probably hits more homeruns due to ball park fences being 40-50 feet shorter from home plate on average



the only advantage bonds had was steroids, protective pads, and he still couldnt match babe ruth for more than 1-2 seasons.



its obvious bonds was half the man without drugs cause his best years came well after his prime

[warriorfan]

Ruth played against a lesser population of top athletes and talents. So automatically all of his stats should be cut down by 1/3.

& segregated leagues. that era didn't nearly have as much talent as the modern era.

[kennethgriffin]

Segregated soft serve league.

http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/0910/mlb.10.best.hitters/images/ty-cobb.jpg

Look what happened after they let black guys play.

Mays, Aaron, Bonds.


the blacks never sniffed babe ruths yearly numbers


jacky robinson, hank aaron, willie mays... none of them were putting up near 400 averages with 150 runs, 140 rbis and 50 homeruns with 11-13 WAR


none of them can throw no hitters, shut outs all year. then hit 50 homeruns the next


babe ruth is basically god on a baseball diamond..




all you storm troopers need to lay off that odom pipe

[warriorfan]

baseball is barely even athletic to begin with. its 90% skill


does prince fielder look like hes in top physical condition?


allot of baseball players are gassed running to first base


you could put babe ruth in todays game and he doesn't skip a beat

infact he probably hits more homeruns due to ball park fences being 40-50 feet shorter from home plate on average



the only advantage bonds had was steroids, protective pads, and he still couldnt match babe ruth for more than 1-2 seasons.



its obvious bonds was half the man without drugs cause his best years came well after his prime

Babe was an alcoholic and drug abuser. He wouldn't of lasted in the modern media era.




Even Babe Ruth, the legendary outfielder for the New York Yankees, tried to inject himself with extract from sheep testicles in 1925.

[kennethgriffin]

Babe was an alcoholic and drug abuser. He wouldn't of lasted in the modern media era.


which is what makes babe ruths legend that much more impressive


the guy could hit .350 drunk


imagine if he was sober



:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

which is what makes babe ruths legend that much more impressive


the guy could hit .350 drunk


imagine if he was sober



:oldlol:

yeah it shows you how terrible the league was 100 years ago :oldlol:

imagine if he wasn't playing against guys pitching 80 miles per hour fastballs

:eek:

[kennethgriffin]

imagine if he wasn't playing against guys pitching 80 miles per hour fastballs

:eek:


i can go outside right now and throw 80... i think they were closer to 90


and since when does a pitcher have to throw hard to be effective?



its all about movement, change of speeds anyway




and another thing.. we're talking power... yet ruth hit 80 mph soft pitches for 50 homeruns every year in ball parks that were 50 feet deeper than todays fences?


lol if anything youre giving him credit... its way harder to hit slow pitches 450-500 feet than it is a 99MPH fast ball





but back on topic.


argue all you want. bonds stats ( which dont even compare regardless ) were tainted with roids


sorry blacks. you lose again. stick to worshipping shooty hoops ... baseball is a white mans game...

[warriorfan]

i can go outside right now and throw 80... i think they were closer to 90


and since when does a pitcher have to throw hard to be effective?



its all about movement, change of speeds anyway




and another thing.. we're talking power... yet ruth hit 80 mph soft pitches for 50 homeruns every year in ball parks that were 50 feet deeper than todays fences?


lol if anything youre giving him credit... its way harder to hit slow pitches 450-500 feet than it is a 99MPH fast ball





but back on topic.


argue all you want. bonds stats ( which dont even compare regardless ) were tainted with roids


sorry blacks. you lose again. stick to worshipping shooty hoops ... baseball is a white mans game...

what a meltdown

[kennethgriffin]

what a meltdown

http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-greatest-mlb-players

#1 babe ruth

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1977372-the-100-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/page/61

#1 babe ruth

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisn100.shtml

#1 babe ruth

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-greatest-baseball-players-of-all-time

#1 babe ruth



its pretty much as broad common knowledge and accepted that babe ruth is the goat baseball player as it is michael jordan is the goat basketball player




people who argue bonds sounds like lebron f*ggots

:oldlol:



and bonds doesn't even have the 1.5 rings Kang Kung has


:roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You are being ridiculous.

Why are you trying to penalize Barry Bonds for using PEDs. The entire league was using. When your competition is using you have to use as well. Barry Bonds got into the steroid game extremely late. The numbers you are taking are from when Barry was facing roided out pitchers while he wasn't on the same playing level.

If you think Babe Ruth had to deal with roided out Eirc Gagnes throwing 103 miles per hour than you are absolutely insane.

Also great how you don't ever mention stolen bases once in your post. Same way how you post Nash stuff and never mention the word defense. You are not only a poster with little knowledge, even worse you are a poster that is dishonest.

1. Okay, go ahead and penalize everyone in the league who was linked to steroids. Multiple people cheating doesn't make cheating acceptable. Plenty of great players from the steroid era have never been linked to PEDs, and until they are, their careers remain untainted (Griffey, Martinez, Johnson, Maddux, Jeter, etc.).

2. While it is much more difficult to verify, 95-100 MPH pitchers did exist through Williams' era, if not Ruth's as well.

3. Alright, let's look at stolen bases too. That's an oversight on my part, no need to get testy (and for the hundredth time, I readily admit that Steve Nash was NOT a good defender and that his greatness comes solely from his OFFENSIVE impact. No idea why this has yet to sink in).

Bonds ranks 33rd, which is a great rank for a great hitter, and definitely boosts his case as far as a blend of speed and power but his hitting numbers just aren't good enough to contend with the real juggernauts.

Everything that I have posted as far as stats is factually true, don't start slinging mud just because you don't like what they say. You said that the stats would bear your argument out, they didn't, so I fail to see how you can question anyone's knowledge or credibility.

[warriorfan]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-greatest-mlb-players

#1 babe ruth

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1977372-the-100-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/page/61

#1 babe ruth

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisn100.shtml

#1 babe ruth

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-greatest-baseball-players-of-all-time

#1 babe ruth



its pretty much as broad common knowledge and accepted that babe ruth is the goat baseball player as it is michael jordan is the goat basketball player




people who argue bonds sounds like lebron f*ggots

:oldlol:



and bonds doesn't even have the 1.5 rings Kang Kung has


:roll:

Trying to compare individual impact in baseball and basketball.

Exposed as not knowing shit about baseball and basketball.

[aj1987]

I can't believe that I actually agree with Kenny here. Dumbassfan is a troll and literally has no knowledge of ANY sport.

[Psileas]

Except everyone who watched them play is dead or senile.

In 20 years all the goats will be from this era

In 20 years, everyone who will have watched this era will also be "dead or senile".

[kennethgriffin]

Trying to compare individual impact in baseball and basketball.

Exposed as not knowing shit about baseball and basketball.



the difference is babe ruth single handedly actually could carry a baseball team



take away his home run total away from his runs scored. add that number to his total RBI's

thats 286 in 1921

devided by a 153 game season

thats almost 2 runs per game ( 1.87 )

and he can pitch at the same time on no rest with complete games at a 1.75 ERA


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

the difference is babe ruth single handedly actually could carry a baseball team



take away his home run total away from his runs scored. add that number to his total RBI's

thats 286 in 1921

devided by a 153 game season

thats almost 2 runs per game ( 1.87 )

and he can pitch at the same time on no rest with complete games at a 1.75 ERA


:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ok CavsJr.

:roll:

[warriorfan]

1. Okay, go ahead and penalize everyone in the league who was linked to steroids. Multiple people cheating doesn't make cheating acceptable. Plenty of great players from the steroid era have never been linked to PEDs, and until they are, their careers remain untainted (Griffey, Martinez, Johnson, Maddux, Jeter, etc.).


Were pitchers roiding in the 90's?

Do pitchers gain an advantage from roiding?

Was Barry Bonds roiding in the 90s?

To answer the questions for you. It's Yes, Yes, and No. So to try to compare Babe Ruth's 90+ year old stats to Barry Bond's in the modern era vs PED using pitching is absurd.




2. While it is much more difficult to verify, 95-100 MPH pitchers did exist through Williams' era, if not Ruth's as well.


Bro you sound like CavsFTW right now and it's not a good look.




3. Alright, let's look at stolen bases too. That's an oversight on my part, no need to get testy (and for the hundredth time, I readily admit that Steve Nash was NOT a good defender and that his greatness comes solely from his OFFENSIVE impact. No idea why this has yet to sink in).

Bonds ranks 33rd, which is a great rank for a great hitter, and definitely boosts his case as far as a blend of speed and power but his hitting numbers just aren't good enough to contend with the real juggernauts.

Everything that I have posted as far as stats is factually true, don't start slinging mud just because you don't like what they say. You said that the stats would bear your argument out, they didn't, so I fail to see how you can question anyone's knowledge or credibility.

Now you are looking at stolen bases with a shallow perspective. For the best overall 5 tool player there is going to be no one better than Barry Bonds and his 40/40 with Gold Glove seasons.

1996 Barry Bonds

517 AB / 122 R / 159 H / 42 HR / 40 SB / 129 RBI / 151 BB / 76 SO / .308 AVG / 1.076 OPS

+ Gold Glove

Bonds has more power and speed than Mays. Bonds has night and day difference with baserunning when compared to Ruth. Bonds is the better fielder as well. Ruth has better power numbers but it is under dubious circumstances considering it was 90+ years ago. Barry Bonds was facing better talent that was well into PED abuse by 1996. When factoring in the level of competition Barry Bond's numbers are very similar to Ruth's, but Bonds has him beat handily in all the other areas of play.

[kennethgriffin]

Were pitchers roiding in the 90's?

Do pitchers gain an advantage from roiding?

Was Barry Bonds roiding in the 90s?

To answer the questions for you. It's Yes, Yes, and No. So to try to compare Babe Ruth's 90+ year old stats to Barry Bond's in the modern era vs PED using pitching is absurd.




Bro you sound like CavsFTW right now and it's not a good look.




Now you are looking at stolen bases with a shallow perspective. For the best overall 5 tool player there is going to be no one better than Barry Bonds and his 40/40 with Gold Glove seasons.

1996 Barry Bonds

517 AB / 122 R / 159 H / 42 HR / 40 SB / 129 RBI / 151 BB / 76 SO / .308 AVG / 1.076 OPS

+ Gold Glove

Bonds has more power and speed than Mays. Bonds has night and day difference with baserunning when compared to Ruth. Bonds is the better fielder as well. Ruth has better power numbers but it is under dubious circumstances considering it was 90+ years ago. Barry Bonds was facing better talent that was well into PED abuse by 1996. When factoring in the level of competition Barry Bond's numbers are very similar to Ruth's, but Bonds has him beat handily in all the other areas of play.


in the end. clean or doped. bonds doesnt compare to babe ruth



at best even if we didn't discount bonds for anything. you could say hes the 3rd best ever


ruth and mays are heads and shoulders above everyone

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Kenny Griffey would have been Goat if not for injury plague. Prob could have hit 800 Homeruns . :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Kenny Griffey would have been Goat if not for injury plague. Prob could have hit 800 Homeruns . :bowdown: :bowdown:


i agree


i've said this countless times


the only guy that compares to griffeys all around play is willie mays


and if healthy griffey hits over 800 home runs with ease


he got to 630 missing 60% of the 2000's for god sake

[warriorfan]

in the end. clean or doped. bonds doesnt compare to babe ruth



at best even if we didn't discount bonds for anything. you could say hes the 3rd best ever


ruth and mays are heads and shoulders above everyone

1996 Barry Bonds is a better player than any year of Babe Ruth or Willie Mays.

[warriorfan]

i agree


i've said this countless times


the only guy that compares to griffeys all around play in the outfield is willie mays


and if healthy griffey hits over 800 home runs with ease


he got to 630 missing 60% of the 2000's for god sake

Griffey had tons of freak injuries all the time because he was doping...

[kennethgriffin]

Griffey had tons of freak injuries all the time because he was doping...


they werent freak injuries though. they were mainly all the same one or 2 injuries that never healed properly


his hamstring was the worst one by far



and griffeys never been linked to roids. even after the manhunt, trainers, doctors, testimonies, grand juries, books, alligations, tests... not even one peep was heard about griffeys name



so you lose again

:lol


and another thing... griffey will be the only one out of that fab four 90s group to make the hall of fame



Bonds = NOPE
Mcgwire = NOPE
Sosa = NOPE


sorry...


griffeys name will be the only one that is immortalized in coopers town


http://24.media.tumblr.com/dc11be8a68161b961fa815311926b92c/tumblr_mgv4x7Fl991renuivo1_500.gif

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You just keep bending over to justify the same flawed argument. It's not working.

Bonds juiced, his legacy suffered as a result, and what we saw of pre-roids Bonds wasn't enough to definitively call him the GOAT.

[warriorfan]

Willie Mays has an argument with Barry Bonds.

Ruth no.

Griffey double no. There is a reason why pitchers flat out wouldn't pitch to Barry and would pitch to Griffey. It's because Barry was a more dangerous hitter. In Bond's best year he had 40 stolen bases and 151 walks. In Griffey's he had 15 stolen bases and 76 walks. Griffey also had 121 strike outs. Ouch, that is almost double Barry's 76 strike outs. There is a reason why Bond's had such a great OPS. There is no way Ken Griffey was a better all around player than Barry Bonds. If you tried to bring up Griffey as the GOAT with anyone who knows baseball you would get laughed out of the room.

[warriorfan]

You just keep bending over to justify the same flawed argument. It's not working.

Bonds juiced, his legacy suffered as a result, and what we saw of pre-roids Bonds wasn't enough to definitively call him the GOAT.

Stop backtracking. There is not one better 5 tool player than 1996 pre-roid Barry Bonds.

1996 Barry Bonds GOAT

[warriorfan]

they werent freak injuries though. they were mainly all the same one or 2 injuries that never healed properly

his hamstring was the worst one by far

and griffeys never been linked to roids. even after the manhunt, trainers, doctors, testimonies, grand juries, books, alligations, tests... not even one peep was heard about griffeys name

so you lose again

:lol

and another thing... griffey will be the only one out of that fab four 90s group to make the hall of fame

Bonds = NOPE
Mcgwire = NOPE
Sosa = NOPE

griffeys name will be the only one that is immortalized in coopers town



no one cares what racist old white cuck writers think

people that know baseball know that Barry is the GOAT, pre-juice and post-juice.

keep your head in the sand about griffey not using PED's...you said you got some inheritance money? If you want I got a bridge I could sell you...

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Stop backtracking. There is not one better 5 tool player than 1996 pre-roid Barry Bonds.

1996 Barry Bonds GOAT

I'm backtracking? You've gone from declaring Barry Bonds the GOAT baseball player to picking one season and using that as your entire argument. We are comparing careers, not single seasons, you're only switching to something new because you've realized how hopeless your original argument was. :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

I'm backtracking? You've gone from declaring Barry Bonds the GOAT baseball player to picking one season and using that as your entire argument. We are comparing careers, not single seasons, you're only switching to something new because you've realized how hopeless your original argument was. :oldlol:

you are the dude trying to cut barry bonds career in half :roll:

I'm telling you that even if you do that bullshit, he is still the goat

deal with it

[24-Inch_Chrome]

you are the dude trying to cut barry bonds career in half :roll:

I'm telling you that even if you do that bullshit, he is still the goat

deal with it

This post isn't even worth a proper reply. Pre-roids Bonds is the only Bonds who holds any weight, and what weight it does give just isn't enough.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.sportstravelandtours.com/images/PKG_BASEBALL-bahofanytime.jpg


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1858855!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/cooperstown13f-2-web.jpg


http://i58.tinypic.com/2emd9ms.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/k1q45u.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/10368ns.jpg

[warriorfan]

Barry Bonds was the GOAT. Lesser players (Sosa, Mcguire, Griffey, and half the MLB pitchers) had to cheat using PED's to try to get ahead of Bonds.

So what does Bonds do? He evens the playing field and starts using PEDs. Guess what happens? He is the GOAT once again.

Bonds the GOAT before, during, and after steroids.

[warriorfan]

This post isn't even worth a proper reply. Pre-roids Bonds is the only Bonds who holds any weight, and what weight it does give just isn't enough.

What player is better than 1996 Barry Bonds?

[kennethgriffin]

you need 75% to make the Hall of fame



Barry Bonds
Hall of Fame votes:
2013 BBWAA (36.2%)
2014 BBWAA (34.7%)
2015 BBWAA (36.8%)


Mark Mcgwire
Hall of Fame votes:
2007 BBWAA (23.5%)
2008 BBWAA (23.6%)
2009 BBWAA (21.9%)
2010 BBWAA (23.7%)
2011 BBWAA (19.8%)
2012 BBWAA (19.5%)
2013 BBWAA (16.9%)
2014 BBWAA (11.0%)
2015 BBWAA (10.0%)


Sammy Sosa
Hall of Fame votes:
2013 BBWAA (12.5%)
2014 BBWAA ( 7.2%)
2015 BBWAA ( 6.6%)



Roger Clemens
Hall of Fame vote:
2013 BBWAA (37.6%)
2014 BBWAA (35.4%)
2015 BBWAA (37.5%)






it doesn't matter how good you are. if you cheat. you'l NEVER make the HOF



PERIOD

[feyki]

Cause global(tv?ınternet) era .

[warriorfan]

you need 75% to make the Hall of fame



Barry Bonds
Hall of Fame votes:
2013 BBWAA (36.2%)
2014 BBWAA (34.7%)
2015 BBWAA (36.8%)


Mark Mcgwire
Hall of Fame votes:
2007 BBWAA (23.5%)
2008 BBWAA (23.6%)
2009 BBWAA (21.9%)
2010 BBWAA (23.7%)
2011 BBWAA (19.8%)
2012 BBWAA (19.5%)
2013 BBWAA (16.9%)
2014 BBWAA (11.0%)
2015 BBWAA (10.0%)


Sammy Sosa
Hall of Fame votes:
2013 BBWAA (12.5%)
2014 BBWAA ( 7.2%)
2015 BBWAA ( 6.6%)



Roger Clemens
Hall of Fame vote:
2013 BBWAA (37.6%)
2014 BBWAA (35.4%)
2015 BBWAA (37.5%)






it doesn't matter how good you are. if you cheat. you'l NEVER make the HOF



PERIOD

you don't know baseball

[kennethgriffin]

What player is better than 1996 Barry Bonds?

griffey





bonds 1996 = .308 average, 122 runs, 129 rbi, 42 homeruns, .615 slug, 9.6 WAR
Griffey 1996 = .303 average, 125 runs, 140 rbi, 49 homeruns, .628 slug, 9.7 WAR



its obvious that griffey was better PRE bonds steroids



if griffey played in the NL he'd have had way more MVP awards too





what can't be argued is that griffey was WAAAAAAY better in the outfield

.. and thats what separated the 2



ken was the better player before bonds cheated

[24-Inch_Chrome]

What player is better than 1996 Barry Bonds?

Based on what? The only thing missing from the majority of other great seasons is stolen base totals, though vastly superior offense could more than make up for that.

1939 DiMaggio

1923 and 1927 Ruth

1941 Williams

1911 Cobb (probably more than just that)

Are we counting pitchers too?

1999 and 2000 Martinez

1994 and 1995 Maddux

I can come up with more if you'd like.

[kennethgriffin]

stolen bases are overrated




if a guy scored 20-30 more total runs. thats better than 10-20 more stolen bases

[kennethgriffin]

Based on what? The only thing missing from the majority of other great seasons is stolen base totals, though vastly superior offense could more than make up for that.

1939 DiMaggio

1923 and 1927 Ruth

1941 Williams

1911 Cobb (probably more than just that)

Are we counting pitchers too?

1999 and 2000 Martinez

1994 and 1995 Maddux

I can come up with more if you'd like.


bonds wasnt even the best player in 1996.. you dont have to dig deep



griffey had the better stats, WAR and was the better defensive player by far...


its laughable that this is even a conversation


yes bonds on roids was legendary for a few years in the early 2000s. but who gives a sh*t


give griffey 20-30 more pounds of muscle and he hits 80 homeruns in a year

[warriorfan]

stolen bases are overrated




if a guy scored 20-30 more total runs. thats better than 10-20 more stolen bases

Stolen Bases are a better measure for individual production. Runs scored are heavily dependent on your team. Yankees would have insanely stacked teams in Ruths Era so there would always be players to bat him home. Modern day players don't get that luxury. Stolen Bases show how much of a threat the player is on the base path. If a runner gets on first and is a huge threat to steal he is going to make the pitcher uncomfortable. He is going to give the manager options to hit and run or bunt the runner to third to put them in a position for a sacrifice fly tag up. Stolen Bases and base running in general are a huge portion of baseball, people who don't know the game will completely overlook these things and just not get it.

[warriorfan]

Based on what? The only thing missing from the majority of other great seasons is stolen base totals, though vastly superior offense could more than make up for that.

1939 DiMaggio

1923 and 1927 Ruth

1941 Williams

1911 Cobb (probably more than just that)

Are we counting pitchers too?

1999 and 2000 Martinez

1994 and 1995 Maddux

I can come up with more if you'd like.

So you can only bring up guys from 90+ years ago in the segregated leagues? And you are going to sit here with a straight face and tell me they are a better 5 tool player than Barry Bonds? This is just totally insane.

Sorry guys but Canadian stat nerds should not talk baseball. This is awful.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

So you can only bring up guys from 90+ years ago in the segregated leagues? And you are going to sit here with a straight face and tell me they are a better 5 tool player than Barry Bonds? This is just totally insane.

Sorry guys but Canadian stat nerds should not talk baseball. This is awful.

Your exact words, "What player is better than 1996 Barry Bonds?" I answered your question, don't try altering it now.

Again, don't get pissy just because reality clashes with your fantasy world.

[kennethgriffin]

Stolen Bases are a better measure for individual production. Runs scored are heavily dependent on your team. Yankees would have insanely stacked teams in Ruths Era so there would always be players to bat him home. Modern day players don't get that luxury. Stolen Bases show how much of a threat the player is on the base path. If a runner gets on first and is a huge threat to steal he is going to make the pitcher uncomfortable. He is going to give the manager options to hit and run or bunt the runner to third to put them in a position for a sacrifice fly tag up. Stolen Bases and base running in general are a huge portion of baseball, people who don't know the game will completely overlook these things and just not get it.




heres the thing


a) history is not on your side.


b) literally the entire world agrees with me


c) bonds didnt make the hall of fame and your chances only decrease as years go by


d) stolen bases are not worth more than runs scored or RBI's


:lol

[warriorfan]

heres the thing


a) history is not on your side.


b) literally the entire world agrees with me


c) bonds didnt make the hall of fame and your chances only decrease as years go by


d) stolen bases are not worth more than runs scored or RBI's


:lol

RBI's and runs scored are heavily dependent on your team. You never even played baseball and have no idea what you are talking about :lol

[kennethgriffin]

So you can only bring up guys from 90+ years ago in the segregated leagues? And you are going to sit here with a straight face and tell me they are a better 5 tool player than Barry Bonds? This is just totally insane.

Sorry guys but Canadian stat nerds should not talk baseball. This is awful.



griffey is a better 5 tool player than bonds... know why?



even if griffey never hit a single homerun and drove in half as many runs ... he'd still be a max contract player just off his defense



nobody covered more ground in the outfield than griffey

nobody climbed walls like griffey

nobody risked their body like griffey

nobody stole more homeruns than griffey

nobody made more leaping, diving catches than griffey

nobody will ever be as great an offensive/defensive player .. period


the only guy who compares is willie mays. and thats because griffey was injured a shit ton in the 2000s


without those injuries the guy wins 15-16 gold gloves and hits 800 homeruns







now sit the f*ck down little boy

:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Your exact words, "What player is better than 1996 Barry Bonds?" I answered your question, don't try altering it now.

Again, don't get pissy just because reality clashes with your fantasy world.

you gave a poor answer, you couldn't give me one name that was in the last 70 years....you are taking stats from an ancient era and presenting them with no context. do you realize you are being like CavsFTW when he comes in here posting about Wilt's 55 point per game average when comparing him to Michael Jordan?

[kennethgriffin]

RBI's and runs scored are heavily dependent on your team. You never even played baseball and have no idea what you are talking about :lol


griffey was busy getting doubles most times he didnt get a homerun


its harder to steal 3rd than 2nd


:lol


and bonds played on way better teams his whole career than griffey did


griffey had a good team for maybe 3-4 seasons

:roll:

[warriorfan]

griffey is a better 5 tool player than bonds... know why?



even if griffey never hit a single homerun and drove in half as many runs ... he'd still be a max contract player just off his defense



nobody covered more ground in the outfield than griffey

nobody climbed walls like griffey

nobody risked their body like griffey

nobody stole more homeruns than griffey

nobody made more leaping, diving catches than griffey

nobody will ever be as great an offensive/defensive player .. period


the only guy who compares is willie mays. and thats because griffey was injured a shit ton in the 2000s


without those injuries the guy wins 15-16 gold gloves and hits 800 homeruns







now sit the f*ck down little boy

:oldlol:


24 inch chrome is a stat nerd

you are just a plain old nerd

[kennethgriffin]

i just now realized warriorb*tch is from san francisco


can't believe i didn't realize the clear bias yet


hes probably a nog too





i'm from ottawa/canada...


no affiliation to Seattle or Cincinnati

and i'm white






i think my opinion on this holds a bit more validity

[kennethgriffin]

a black giants fan from sanfrancisco thinks bonds is the greatest





well there goes the neighborhood.

[warriorfan]

griffey was busy getting doubles most times he didnt get a homerun


its harder to steal 3rd than 2nd


:lol


and bonds played on way better teams his whole career than griffey did


griffey had a good team for maybe 3-4 seasons

:roll:

Bonds vs Griffey

Batting - Bonds
Baserunning - Bonds
Power - Bonds
Fielding - Tie
Arm - Tie


Griffey struck out almost twice as much as Bonds did with half the amount of walks. If Barry wasn't intentionally walked so much ( he was the most intentionally walked player of all time) he would have better power numbers as well.

[warriorfan]

a black giants fan from sanfrancisco thinks bonds is the greatest





well there goes the neighborhood.




white canadian boy is unhealthily obssessed with tall brothers from LA and Seattle


:eek:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

you gave a poor answer, you couldn't give me one name that was in the last 70 years....you are taking stats from an ancient era and presenting them with no context. do you realize you are being like CavsFTW when he comes in here posting about Wilt's 55 point per game average when comparing him to Michael Jordan?

Better is better. :confusedshrug:

Again, you don't like that reality is clashing with your warped perception so you're trying to discount anything that goes against it. Keep going with the mental gymnastics.

Mantle (1956/1957), Henderson (1990), Walker (1997), Boggs (1987), Musial (1948), etc., there have been tons of players who put up seasons that can match up with Bonds in 1996. You just don't want to accept it.

[kennethgriffin]

Bonds vs Griffey

Batting - Bonds
Baserunning - Bonds
Power - Bonds
Fielding - Tie
Arm - Tie


Griffey struck out almost twice as much as Bonds did with half the amount of walks. If Barry wasn't intentionally walked so much ( he was the most intentionally walked player of all time) he would have better power numbers as well.

Batting - griffey in 1990s, Bonds in 2000s on roids
Baserunning - Bonds
Power - griffey in 1990s, Bonds in 2000's on roids
Fielding - griffey by a country mile
Arm - griffey by a country mile in the 90s... are you kidding me?





you really are a f*cking homer 1000




:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

Better is better. :confusedshrug:

Again, you don't like that reality is clashing with your warped perception so you're trying to discount anything that goes against it. Keep going with the mental gymnastics.

Mantle (1956/1957), Henderson (1990), Walker (1997), Boggs (1987), Musial (1948), etc., there have been tons of players who put up seasons that can match up with Bonds in 1996. You just don't want to accept it.

5 tool player

Batting
Batting for Power
Baserunning and Speed
Fielding
Armstrength

Go through that check list and compare Barry Bonds to ANY of the players you have mentioned. None of them compare to Barry Bonds as a complete baseball player. The only player that does is the one that you didn't mention surprisingly enough, Willie Mays.

Willie Mays is the only other 5 tool player that can compare to Barry Bonds.

[kennethgriffin]

white canadian boy is unhealthily obssessed with tall brothers from LA and Seattle


:eek:


atleast i can look outside the box


my favorite baseball player all time isnt larry walker

my favorite basketball player isnt steve nash

my favorite team isnt the raptors



youre just a f*cking sheep bro


:lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

The only advantage Bonds had was base-running and it's more than made up for in the superior offensive numbers that other players posted. You're acting like a player only counts as great if they display those 5 tools. Keep going with the mental gymnastics.

You're discounting everything that can't fit into the narrow confines of your definition of great despite it not being shared by the rest of the world. It's like dealing with a brick wall, you seem to want to live in ignorance so I'll leave you to it.

[warriorfan]

Batting - griffey in 1990s, Bonds in 2000s on roids
Baserunning - Bonds
Power - griffey in 1990s, Bonds in 2000's on roids
Fielding - griffey by a country mile
Arm - griffey by a country mile in the 90s... are you kidding me?



How is Griffey a better batter in the 90's?

Bonds has better OPS than Griffey does when they were both in their young primes before any of the two did steroids.

Bonds was a better power hitter in the 90's. Why do you think Barry Bonds got walked 151 times in 1996? It is because he was the most dangerous hitter in baseball. Griffey only got walked 75 times on average, half as less. Pitchers weren't afraid of Griffey, they were afraid of Bonds. Barry was also hitting in Candlestick Park, the windiest park in the league with swirling cold gusts coming off the bay. Griffey had a cozy dome that was a hitters park.

Baserunning is Bonds by a country mile. No explanation is needed here.

Fielding is a tie. They both have the same amount of Gold Gloves and are both top level defenders.

Arm is a tie as well. Griffey may have had a slightly stronger arm but he had a longer windup. Barry Bond's had an extremely fast throwing motion and release, he had excellent mechanics and would be able to get the ball out of his mit from when he caught the ball faster than anyone in the league.

[warriorfan]

The only advantage Bonds had was base-running and it's more than made up for in the superior offensive numbers that other players posted. You're acting like a player only counts as great if they display those 5 tools. Keep going with the mental gymnastics.

You're discounting everything that can't fit into the narrow confines of your definition of great despite it not being shared by the rest of the world. It's like dealing with a brick wall, you seem to want to live in ignorance so I'll leave you to it.

You think the definition of a prototypical 5 tool baseball player was invented by me and not shared by the rest of the baseball world? :confusedshrug:

What the fucc dude? Do you even baseball? :confusedshrug:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You think the definition of a prototypical 5 tool baseball player was invented by me and not shared by the rest of the baseball world? :confusedshrug:

What the fucc dude? Do you even baseball? :confusedshrug:

5 tool player is a means of evaluation but it is not a definitive guideline for greatness where all players have to fit into it to be considered great. I think that you're being purposefully obtuse, which isn't exactly surprising considering your usual posting style.

[kennethgriffin]

How is Griffey a better batter in the 90's?

Bonds has better OPS than Griffey does when they were both in their young primes before any of the two did steroids.

Bonds was a better power hitter in the 90's. Why do you think Barry Bonds got walked 151 times in 1996? It is because he was the most dangerous hitter in baseball. Griffey only got walked 75 times on average, half as less. Pitchers weren't afraid of Griffey, they were afraid of Bonds. Barry was also hitting in Candlestick Park, the windiest park in the league with swirling cold gusts coming off the bay. Griffey had a cozy dome that was a hitters park.

Baserunning is Bonds by a country mile. No explanation is needed here.

Fielding is a tie. They both have the same amount of Gold Gloves and are both top level defenders.

Arm is a tie as well. Griffey may have had a slightly stronger arm but he had a longer windup. Barry Bond's had an extremely fast throwing motion and release, he had excellent mechanics and would be able to get the ball out of his mit from when he caught the ball faster than anyone in the league.


in the 1990s griffey averaged 40 HR, 113 RBI, .299 average
in the 1990s bonds averaged 38 HR, 107 RBI, .303 average


Bonds
Gold Gloves
1990 NL (OF)
1991 NL (OF)
1992 NL (OF)
1993 NL (OF)
1994 NL (OF)
1996 NL (OF)
1997 NL (OF)
1998 NL (OF)
Silver Sluggers
1990 NL (OF)
1991 NL (OF)
1992 NL (OF)
1993 NL (OF)
1994 NL (OF)
1996 NL (OF)
1997 NL (OF)

15 total


Griffey
Gold Gloves
1990 AL (OF)
1991 AL (OF)
1992 AL (OF)
1993 AL (OF)
1994 AL (OF)
1995 AL (OF)
1996 AL (OF)
1997 AL (OF)
1998 AL (OF)
1999 AL (OF)
Silver Sluggers
1991 AL (OF)
1993 AL (OF)
1994 AL (OF)
1996 AL (OF)
1997 AL (OF)
1998 AL (OF)
1999 AL (OF)


17 total

[warriorfan]

5 tool player is a means of evaluation but it is not a definitive guideline for greatness where all players have to fit into it to be considered great. I think that you're being purposefully obtuse, which isn't exactly surprising considering your usual posting style.

I'm sorry if you think trying to objectively rate a player in all categories of their play is obtuse.

As to apposed of typing the numbers into some calculated advanced stat and trying to read off it with zero context applied to it... Treating 1920 MLB as it was the same environment as 1995 MLB. C'mon man. You are here just spouting out 100 year old numbers that don't relate to modern baseball. It's like CavsFTW coming in here talking about Wilt's 50 ppg and 25 rpg seasons from 1960. It's bullshit, it doesn't work and now you are doing it for baseball.

[warriorfan]

in the 1990s griffey averaged 40 HR, 113 RBI, .299 average
in the 1990s bonds averaged 38 HR, 107 RBI, .303 average


American League inflation. If Barry had a DH to bat in front of him or behind him he would of been protected and not able to be intentionally walked as much. Would of had more runners on base for him to bat home. This is common baseball knowledge.

Bonds OPS blew griffey's out of the water in the 90's.

No stolen bases mentioned because Bonds blew him out of the water there as well.

Griffey has no argument.

[Vaniiiia]

I'm sorry if you think trying to objectively rate a player in all categories of their play is obtuse.

As to apposed of typing the numbers into some calculated advanced stat and trying to read off it with zero context applied to it... Treating 1920 MLB as it was the same environment as 1995 MLB. C'mon man. You are here just spouting out 100 year old numbers that don't relate to modern baseball. It's like CavsFTW coming in here talking about Wilt's 50 ppg and 25 rpg seasons from 1960. It's bullshit, it doesn't work and now you are doing it for baseball.
As to apposed. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

think of it this way


if i'm drafting between bonds and griffey with both completely healthy for 20 years each


i'm taking griffey


not just cause griffey produces more when healthy

but hes a center fielder ... and probably the best or 2nd best ever


left field is where they stick slow a** bums like manny ramirez

center coveres nearly TWICE the distance

a great CF is the ANCHOR of the outfield



look at the blue jays best defensive outfielder... hes in center

willie mays... CENTER



the best player center field. period


GRIFFEY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BONDS

nuff said

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I'm sorry if you think trying to objectively rate a player in all categories of their play is obtuse.

As to apposed of typing the numbers into some calculated advanced stat and trying to read off it with zero context applied to it... Treating 1920 MLB as it was the same environment as 1995 MLB. C'mon man. You are here just spouting out 100 year old numbers that don't relate to modern baseball. It's like CavsFTW coming in here talking about Wilt's 50 ppg and 25 rpg seasons from 1960. It's bullshit, it doesn't work and now you are doing it for baseball.

You're being purposefully obtuse because you're refusing to acknowledge any player or season as being great if they don't fit perfectly into the 5 tool evaluation. Which is ridiculous.

I cited seasons from the 1990s and 1980s, you still dismiss them out of hand with the others just because they fail to score perfectly into one category (usually speed) despite matching or exceeding Bonds in everything else. I'm done feeding the troll, you're welcome to believe whatever garbage you want.

[kennethgriffin]

I'm sorry if you think trying to objectively rate a player in all categories of their play is obtuse.

As to apposed of typing the numbers into some calculated advanced stat and trying to read off it with zero context applied to it... Treating 1920 MLB as it was the same environment as 1995 MLB. C'mon man. You are here just spouting out 100 year old numbers that don't relate to modern baseball. It's like CavsFTW coming in here talking about Wilt's 50 ppg and 25 rpg seasons from 1960. It's bullshit, it doesn't work and now you are doing it for baseball.


center field >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> left field



bonds played the manny ramirez, jose canseco spot




basically left field is the retard position in baseball..

:lol




griffey was right there with bonds on offense. then double the value in the outfield



give it up sanfrancisco lover


your g*y pride wont work here


now go wear some flowers in your hair qu*er boi

[kennethgriffin]

Center Field = guys like


Ken Griffey
Willie Mays
Joe Dimaggio
Ty Cobb
Mickey Mantle
Tris Speaker



Left Field = guys like


Barry Bonds
Manny Ramirez
Jose Canseco



:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

You're being purposefully obtuse because you're refusing to acknowledge any player or season as being great if they don't fit perfectly into the 5 tool evaluation. Which is ridiculous.

I cited seasons from the 1990s and 1980s, you still dismiss them out of hand with the others just because they fail to score perfectly into one category (usually speed) despite matching or exceeding Bonds in everything else. I'm done feeding the troll, you're welcome to believe whatever garbage you want.

Who? Rickey Henderson? Wade Boggs? Those guys are not on Barry Bond's level. Ricky Henderson never could hit for the power that Bonds could, Bonds was a much better fielder as well. Wade bogs had no speed, no power, not the best mit. He was known as a good hitter, that's it. I have no idea why you would bring him up and Barry Bonds in the same sentence.

You are going to try to give Ricky Henderson's stats when he shared the clubhouse with Jose Canseco and Mark Mcguire while on the other hand you try to write off half of Barry Bond's career like it never happened? Get the fucc out of my thread, you have spewed enough nonsense for today.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I can't let that go. First you ask for players who are better...and your argument was destroyed. Then you backtracked to individual seasons, which I provided, to which you're back to full careers. **** off, troll.

[kennethgriffin]

bonds isnt even a hall of famer


hes basically on adam morrisons level


except instead of fake rings he has fake stats


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBqe4LD42QY

^^^ LMFAO

[warriorfan]

I can't let that go. First you ask for players who are better...and your argument was destroyed. Then you backtracked to individual seasons, which I provided, to which you're back to full careers. **** off, troll.

no im not you straw manning piece of shit

1987 wade boggs had 24 hr, 1 stolen base

1996 bonds had 42 homeruns, 40 stolen bases

1990 henderson had 28 homeruns, 60 rbis, 119 runs scored

1996 bonds had 42 homeruns, 129 rbis, 122 runs scored

Bonds was a better fielder and won Gold Glove in 1996. Neither Henderson nor Boggs won Gold Gloves that year.

Trying to compare Wade Boggs and Ricky Henderson's season with Barry Bond's 1996 season is ridiculous.

You discount Barry Bond's best season because of steroid use yet you have no problems using Ricky Henderson's stats when he was in one of the dirtiest club houses in MLB history with the Bash Brothers. Absurd double standard if you are going to sit here and tell me that Ricky Henderson was completely clean during those years.

[kennethgriffin]

no im not you straw manning piece of shit

1987 wade boggs had 24 hr, 1 stolen base

1996 bonds had 42 homeruns, 40 stolen bases

1990 henderson had 28 homeruns, 60 rbis, 119 runs scored

1996 bonds had 42 homeruns, 129 rbis, 122 runs scored

Bonds was a better fielder and won Gold Glove in 1996. Henderson nor Boggs did.

Trying to compare Wade Boggs and Ricky Henderson's season with Barry Bond's 1996 season is ridiculous.

You discount Barry Bond's best season because of steroid use yet you have no problems using Ricky Henderson's stats when he was in one of the dirtiest club houses in MLB history with the Bash Brothers. Absurd double standard if you are going to sit here and tell me that Ricky Henderson was completely clean during those years.


left field/ roids/ 0 rings/ no HOF


next

[warriorfan]

left field/ roids/ 0 rings/ no HOF


next

half the strike outs of griffey, double the walks, over double the steals. playing in the non stat inflated National League

next


good to see that you moved on from your CavsFTW George Mikan style Ruth arguments. now that your homo griffey love is getting exposed you should probably fall back to Willie Mays. He is your best bet if Bonds is making you feel some type of way.

[kennethgriffin]

half the strike outs of griffey, double the walks, over double the steals. playing in the non stat inflated National League

next


good to see that you moved on from your CavsFTW George Mikan style Ruth arguments. now that your homo griffey love is getting exposed you should probably fall back to Willie Mays. He is your best bet if Bonds is making you feel some type of way.

left field/ roids/ 0 rings/ no HOF


next

[Cali Syndicate]

a) mays was a better all around player

b) ruth was a dominant pitcher aswell

c) bonds cheated

Bonds was well on his way to becoming the greatest all around player. He took roids for the prestigious hr record. Before that bonds was 300/300 club, became only 400/400 club and without all that extra weight gain would have been 500/500 possibly with another gold glove or two. Roids tainted the **** out of his career though, no doubt about that.

[GIF REACTION]

Holy shit

We had this discussion before

Bonds is the GOAT

It's not even up for debate

It literally is not up for debate

I guarantee you 100% if the players voted for HOF predominantly

He'd have made it in quick

These salty writers never played high level sports in their life

They don't understand

[Cali Syndicate]

Wow, bonds is grouped with manny and canseco because they played
Left field. What a joke. Bonds was an elite fielder. "Retarded position" yet probably the greatest professional athlete in all of sports bo Jackson played left field.

Griffey and bonds could be argued either way In the 90s but griffey definitely had more of that star power though. More powerful home run hitter, beautiful swing, automatic gold glover....without injuries, Griffey was on pace to break the hr record and with his field presence, very possible goat status. Bonds without roids was on pace to do what no other ball players have done. 400/400 club being one of them, 500/500 was definitely achievable. While not valued by historians as much as hr leaders go, but a feat that would have set him high in all time rankings.

[GIF REACTION]

Griffey hit more Home runs because even at that time they still intentionally walked Bonds more

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I don't think that it's ridiculous to say that Bonds would have gone down as the GOAT had he stayed clean...but he cheated, and his legacy went to shit as a result. All because he wanted the media fanfare that HR hitters like McGwire and Sosa were getting, what a shame.

[kennethgriffin]

Bonds was well on his way to becoming the greatest all around player. He took roids for the prestigious hr record. Before that bonds was 300/300 club, became only 400/400 club and without all that extra weight gain would have been 500/500 possibly with another gold glove or two. Roids tainted the **** out of his career though, no doubt about that.


how the hell can a guy be the best all around player when he was placed in left field where the slow fat people play

[GIF REACTION]

No Bonds IS the GOAT

He was the best at the game

He has the most accolades to prove it

And don't get me started on the numbers... 74 HRs.

Let me tell you something about pro sports

The NBA didn't even have PED tests til 1999

Jordan was using roids/HGH

ALOT of the NBA guys in the 80's and 90's used

But why don't you hold them accountable?

[kennethgriffin]

No Bonds IS the GOAT

He was the best at the game

He has the most accolades to prove it

And don't get me started on the numbers... 74 HRs.

Let me tell you something about pro sports

The NBA didn't even have PED tests til 1999

Jordan was using roids/HGH

ALOT of the NBA guys in the 80's and 90's used

But why don't you hold them accountable?

no he doesnt

:oldlol:

[Cali Syndicate]

how the hell can a guy be the best all around player when he was placed in left field where the slow fat people play

Rickey Henderson and bo Jackson were slow?

[Cali Syndicate]

I don't think that it's ridiculous to say that Bonds would have gone down as the GOAT had he stayed clean...but he cheated, and his legacy went to shit as a result. All because he wanted the media fanfare that HR hitters like McGwire and Sosa were getting, what a shame.

Yup To ****ing shit. Although his career was still hof worthy before roids imo anyways.

And as an edit it's the 600/600 club bonds may have achieved without roids, that I was talking about. Bonds is already the sole member of the 400/400 and 500/500 clubs.

[kennethgriffin]

Rickey Henderson and bo Jackson were slow?


his teams had faster guys at center field like willie wilson... who was carrying about 30 pounds less weight on his legs


and bo did play a bit of center field in his day before the injury

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yup To ****ing shit. Although his career was still hof worthy before roids imo anyways.

And as an edit it's the 600/600 club bonds may have achieved without roids, that I was talking about. Bonds is already the sole member of the 400/400 and 500/500 clubs.

I agree that he'd have made the HoF before 'roids, makes it that much sadder that he chose such a stupid option for such a stupid reason.

Any claim that he may have had to being the GOAT is gone, his legacy is tainted, and we the fans were robbed of being able to fully appreciate a generational talent.

[GIF REACTION]

Who are you honestly going to put over Bonds?

Hank Aaron? But wait, he admitted to using amphetamines

Babe Ruth? Dude played in a racist league with no blacks... Numbers are about as good as High school today

Willie Mays? Micky Mantle? They all used amphetamines like Aaron

Who are you going to put above Bonds? NO ONE.

[Cali Syndicate]

Griffey hit more Home runs because even at that time they still intentionally walked Bonds more

Shame he didn't get that 3000 hit milestone. All time walk leader does say a lot about him as a hitter and how pitchers pitched him even though a nice chunk did come from pitchers trying avoid the roided beast.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Who are you honestly going to put over Bonds?

Hank Aaron? But wait, he admitted to using amphetamines

Babe Ruth? Dude played in a racist league with no blacks... Numbers are about as good as High school today

Willie Mays? Micky Mantle? They all used amphetamines like Aaron

Who are you going to put above Bonds? NO ONE.

Greenies aren't steroids. Don't try to equate them.

That's crap. Might his numbers have slipped? Yes, they may have, but he was too good for it to be a big slip. It's silly to assume that whatever black pitchers coming into the league would have been able to handle a GOAT-tier talent.

Again, greenies aren't steroids. Don't try to equate them.

I take Williams as the best hitter ever but Ruth has an exceptional GOAT case. Cultural icon, one of the greatest hitters ever, highly decorated, and an elite pitcher.


Shame he didn't get that 3000 hit milestone. All time walk leader does say a lot about him as a hitter and how pitchers pitched him even though a nice chunk did come from pitchers trying avoid the roided beast.

He managed 1,430 walks before he started juicing, I think it's probable that he would have reached at least 2,000 had he finished his career clean.

[Cali Syndicate]

I agree that he'd have made the HoF before 'roids, makes it that much sadder that he chose such a stupid option for such a stupid reason.

Any claim that he may have had to being the GOAT is gone, his legacy is tainted, and we the fans were robbed of being able to fully appreciate a generational talent.

Two possible goats, one robbed due to injuries, the other because of ego. Narcissistic bitch.

[kennethgriffin]

i'l go with willie mays accolades over barrys any day



Mays:

Hall of Fame
1979 BBWAA (94.7%)
Selected to HOF in 1979 by BBWAA

All-Star Games
1954 *
1955 *
1956 *
1957 (CF)
1958 (CF)
1959-1 (CF)
1959-2 (CF)
1960-1 (CF)
1960-2 (CF)
1961-1 (CF)
1961-2 (CF)
1962-1 (CF)
1962-2 (CF)
1963 (CF)
1964 (CF)
1965 (CF)
1966 (CF)
1967 *
1968 (CF)
1969 *
1970 (CF)
1971 (CF)
1972 (CF)
1973 *


Awards (yr lg award)
1951 NL Rookie of the Year
1954 NL batting_title
1954 NL MVP
1963 AS MVP
1965 NL MVP
1968 AS MVP
1971 Roberto Clemente Award

Gold Gloves
1957 ML (CF)
1958 NL (CF)
1959 NL (CF)
1960 NL (CF)
1961 NL (OF)
1962 NL (OF)
1963 NL (OF)
1964 NL (OF)
1965 NL (OF)
1966 NL (OF)
1967 NL (OF)
1968 NL (OF)
All multiple winners

Wins Above Replacement† †s c a p y
1954 NL 10.6 (1st)
1955 NL 9.0 (1st)
1957 NL 8.3 (1st)
1958 NL 10.2 (1st)
1960 NL 9.5 (1st)
1962 NL 10.5 (1st)
1963 NL 10.6 (1st)
1964 NL 11.0 (1st)
1965 NL 11.2 (1st)



World Series champion (1954)









Bonds:

Hall of Fame
2013 BBWAA (36.2%)
2014 BBWAA (34.7%)
2015 BBWAA (36.8%)

NOPE

All-Star Games
1990 *
1992 (LF)
1993 (LF)
1994 (LF)
1995 (LF)
1996 (LF)
1997 (LF)
1998 (LF)
2000
2001 (LF)
2002 (LF)
2003 (DH)
2004 (LF)
2007 (LF)

1990 NL MVP
1992 NL MVP
1993 NL MVP
2001 NL MVP
2002 NL MVP
2002 NL batting_title
2003 NL MVP
2004 NL batting_title
2004 NL MVP

Gold Gloves
1990 NL (OF)
1991 NL (OF)
1992 NL (OF)
1993 NL (OF)
1994 NL (OF)
1996 NL (OF)
1997 NL (OF)
1998 NL (OF)


Wins Above Replacement† †s c a p y
1990 NL 9.7 (1st)
1996 NL 9.6 (1st)
2001 NL 11.9 (1st)
2002 NL 11.8 (1st)
2003 NL 9.2 (1st)
2004 NL 10.6 (1st)

[Cali Syndicate]

his teams had faster guys at center field like willie wilson... who was carrying about 30 pounds less weight on his legs


and bo did play a bit of center field in his day before the injury

Bonds also played center to start his career. He was moved to left and ended up just staying there. You're dense if you think bonds couldn't play center.

[GIF REACTION]

Still performance enhancing and can extend a career

Simple question

Do you hold Michael Jordan accountable for taking steroids? He clearly did

Do you?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Two possible goats, one robbed due to injuries, the other because of ego. Narcissistic bitch.

It's been a while since I last watched it but Ken Burns has a really good documentary on the history of baseball, and the episode(s?) that cover the steroid era do a good job of exploring Bonds as a person (though it is fairly brief as there was so much going on in baseball) and helped contextualize exactly why he made such a dumb decision. Really interesting series if you ever get a chance (I think it's on Netflix).

[kennethgriffin]

Who are you honestly going to put over Bonds?

Hank Aaron? But wait, he admitted to using amphetamines

Babe Ruth? Dude played in a racist league with no blacks... Numbers are about as good as High school today

Willie Mays? Micky Mantle? They all used amphetamines like Aaron

Who are you going to put above Bonds? NO ONE.


racist league with no blacks?


yall act like nogs are dominating baseball or something?



Whites, who are 61.5 percent of the players, account for 68 percent of the pitchers. The outfield is where speed is most important in baseball.May 4, 2012



According to the league, only 8.3 percent of players on 2014 opening day rosters identified themselves as African-American or black. The highest percentage of African-Americans in the majors, according to research by Mark Armour of the Society of American Baseball Research, was 19 percent in 1986.Apr 9, 2014




whites dominate the game. and a white guy is the GOAT



like i've said. its common knowledge



http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-greatest-mlb-players

#1 babe ruth

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1977372-the-100-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/page/61

#1 babe ruth

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisn100.shtml

#1 babe ruth

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-greatest-baseball-players-of-all-time

#1 babe ruth

[GIF REACTION]

:facepalm

I'm arguing with a bunch of cracker jacks and dudes who have never played a high level of competitive sports

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm

I'm arguing with a bunch of cracker jacks and dudes who have never played a high level of competitive sports


61.5% white



8.3% black




whites win


http://i.imgur.com/VkhvKmp.gif

[kennethgriffin]

jacky robinson really paved the way for all 8% of baseball players that are african american



THROW AWAY ALL THE WHITE GUY RECORDS!


everything PRE 8% doesnt count anymore


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

throw out all the nba records PRE Wang Zhizhi



everything PRE chinese segregation doesnt count anymore

[Cali Syndicate]

It's been a while since I last watched it but Ken Burns has a really good documentary on the history of baseball, and the episode(s?) that cover the steroid era do a good job of exploring Bonds as a person (though it is fairly brief as there was so much going on in baseball) and helped contextualize exactly why he made such a dumb decision. Really interesting series if you ever get a chance (I think it's on Netflix).

A buddy of mine actually has that series and says it's really good watch. Most pbs sports documentaries usually are. He always asks if want to watch it too lol. I'll probably check it out. Good look.

[GIF REACTION]

Never tested positive

Never convicted of use

GOAT

You can't just say he used steroids and then ignore the facts

[kennethgriffin]

Never tested positive

Never convicted of use

GOAT

You can't just say he used steroids and then ignore the facts

Never made the hall of fame

Never won a championship

Never sniffed Babe Ruths all around numbers

Never played a respectable position defensively

Never won a reputable Poll for GOAT consideration






http://espn.go.com/mlb/feature/video/_/id/8652210/espn-hall-100-ranking-all-greatest-mlb-players

#1 babe ruth

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1977372-the-100-greatest-mlb-players-of-all-time/page/61

#1 babe ruth

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/lisn100.shtml

#1 babe ruth

http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-greatest-baseball-players-of-all-time

#1 babe ruth

[GIF REACTION]

Never tested positive

Never convicted of use

GOAT

You can't just say he used steroids and then ignore the facts

[GIF REACTION]

The court system is put in place to deal with issues like this

The facts are he never tested positive and they never convicted him of steroid usage

Your steroid accusations are as good as conspiracy theories

Law and justice laughs at you crack pots

[kennethgriffin]

Never tested positive

Never convicted of use

GOAT

You can't just say he used steroids and then ignore the facts


your opinions worth about as much as a fart in the wind though


you do realize 90% of the world has babe ruth as goat right?

[GIF REACTION]

If public opinion and media agendas determined guilt, then everyone would be ****ing guilty of something

We have these systems put in place to deal with these issues in the most unbiased possible way

There is this thing called; INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

These steroid cries are nothing more than conspiracy theories.

[kennethgriffin]

If public opinion and media agendas determined guilt, then everyone would be ****ing guilty of something

We have these systems put in place to deal with these issues in the most unbiased possible way

There is this thing called; INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

These steroid cries are nothing more than conspiracy theories.


again

your opinions worth about as much as a fart in the wind though


you do realize 90% of the world has babe ruth as goat right?


i'm sorry but the white's win this one.. just as the blacks won the nba


sorry.. this is a white dominated sport


you lose blacky

[kennethgriffin]

blacks dominate the NBA and the NFL

whites dominate the NHL, MLB, Soccer, Golf, Racing, MMA, and mostly everything else except table tennis. that belongs to the chinese


:oldlol:

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

So this battle is still going on. What a Great show of stamina, perseverance and dedication.

[GIF REACTION]

This isn't about race you ****ing moron

This is about law and justice

Innocent

[kennethgriffin]

This isn't about race you ****ing moron

This is about law and justice

Innocent


oh common. its always about race

whatever fits the racial agenda..

blacks absolutely hate babe ruth


bonds was asked if it meant anything to pass ruth on the way to catching hank aaron. he said "i dont care about that guy man. it aint about him. i didnt even think about it"


theyel go OJ, trayvon, michael brown mode and defend absolute scum to push their PRO black agenda



bonds could have broken a live fetus in half and sucked the stem cells out to get enhanced muscle growth and yall would still back the man


like isaih thomas said on the all decade show... "we cheered for the celtics cause they had blacks... we cheered for the cardinals because they had blacks"



yall racist as sh*t. thats what separates whites from blacks... atleast some whites cheer for black athletes


my favorite athletes = kobe, griffey, deion, tyson,


i push willie mays just as hard as i push ruth


but youl never see a black man stand up for babe ruth. theyre racist

pure and simple. blacks are 10 times more racist than white people today


fact*

[GIF REACTION]

meltdown

Bonds isn't the GOAT because he is black

He is the GOAT because of the numbers the accolades the tenure the longevity the reputation as a hitter his natural talent

EVERYTHING

It has nothing to do with race

[kennethgriffin]

show me a black ted williams fan


:roll:


hes practically just as great a hitter as the guys we've been talking about


he gets no love from the black community either

[kennethgriffin]

meltdown

Bonds isn't the GOAT because he is black

He is the GOAT because of the numbers the accolades the tenure the longevity the reputation as a hitter his natural talent

EVERYTHING

It has nothing to do with race

bonds isnt the goat period. when the hell has any large group of people agreed on that

:lol


and his case for the spot isnt based on being black .. i agree


YOUR case however... is largely racially motivated

[Cali Syndicate]

Y'all made a wrong turn somewhere

[GIF REACTION]

Soon as these crack old salty writers start dying off watch Bonds get more respected

Especially since he was proven innocent this year

[kennethgriffin]

show me a black mickey mantle fan


:roll: :roll: :roll:


show me a black ty cobb fan

:oldlol:


show me a black stan musial fan


show me a black honas wagner fan

show me a black lou gehrig fan

show me a black joe dimaggio fan



yall blackys will push bonds till youre blue in the face.. or the blacks with a bit of sense will say mays


but you'l never mention any of those guys or babe ruth




period


me on the other hand... its ruth or mays... i dont see colour

[catch24]

bonds isnt the goat period. when the hell has any large group of people agreed on that

:lol


and his case for the spot isnt based on being black .. i agree


YOUR case however... is largely racially motivated

GIF REACTION = white australian bloke

I actually think he's plowkings alt, but that's neither here or there. :oldlol:

[BasedTom]

who does kenneth press the enter key after every statement

like this

and this

and this

this isn't school m8

you don't get extra points for double spacing

[kennethgriffin]

who does kenneth press the enter key after every statement

like this

and this

and this

this isn't school m8

you don't get extra points for double spacing



Well i could easily type like this instead. Making it more aesthetically pleasing in a way thats more common to readers. Never quite knowing when or if to make an end to ones paragraph. Wondering aimlessly in a sea of madness that is an ever so eloquent evolutionary twist to ones story. Purposefully extending my point of view in a non progressive stagnant context of contemporary complacency. A bland manifestation reserved for those who portray themselves as literary progressive authors.


but i have my own style so f*ck outa here with yo b*tch a**

[warriorfan]

meltdown

bonds GOAT

can't deal with it

:roll: :roll: :roll:


DUdes insinuating that Bonds took steroids and then tell us to look at stats from Ricky Henderson and Ken Griffey Jr. :roll:

[warriorfan]

and little boy 24

"taking amphetamines and steroids is different!"

:roll:

little boy 24 having a penthouse rent free for Barry, the kid is wathcing netflix docs on him and shit. keep hating the GOAT and loving losers like steve nash. let me know how that works out for you

[GIF REACTION]

24 inch chrome doesn't have experience

The ones holding him out the hall are the ones that never played

And since he has been declared innocent, it makes it even more ridiculous

Guy has the most accolades

the best stats

The deadliest reputation (What other hitter gets intentionally walked 120 times in one season?)

[kennethgriffin]

meltdown

bonds GOAT

can't deal with it

:roll: :roll: :roll:


DUdes insinuating that Bonds took steroids and then tell us to look at stats from Ricky Henderson and Ken Griffey Jr. :roll:


so its your opinion vs mine


good thing for both of us the world is built on more than just 2 guys thoughts on who the greatest baseball player was

[warriorfan]

24 inch chrome doesn't have experience

The ones holding him out the hall are the ones that never played

And since he has been declared innocent, it makes it even more ridiculous

Guy has the most accolades

the best stats

The deadliest reputation (What other hitter gets intentionally walked 120 times in one season?)

Griffey was great but Bonds got twice the walks with half the strike outs and over 3 times the stolen bases. Barry Bond's batting eye is legendary. Ask anyone who knows baseball and they will tell you that Barry had the best eye in baseball history and it's not even close.

[warriorfan]

so its your opinion vs mine


good thing for both of us the world is built on more than just 2 guys thoughts on who the greatest baseball player was

world was built for the peeps who know shit about baseball

get the fucc out of here with your racist 100 year old babe ruth shit. mother fuccing CavsFTW jr.

[GIF REACTION]

Kenneth

do you think kobe was innocent?

If you think kobe was innocent, then you must think Bonds is innocent

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth

do you think kobe was innocent?

If you think kobe was innocent, then you must think Bonds is innocent

under the strict female favouring ways of the law in which a woman can consider consensual sex as rape if they regret it after the fact



yeah sure kobes guilty


but she settled for money cause thats probably what she wanted and why she made the allegation



theres a difference between kobe and bonds situation though



whats evident is in terms of public perception. both kobe and bonds are looked at majority wise as guilty of wrong doing whether or not either has been convicted.

the court of public opinion is what defines a person.



good thing for kobe his unfair treatment for being a man in todays feminist society has no effect on his place all time as a basketball player



unfortunately for bonds however.... it does

[warriorfan]

under the strict female favouring ways of the law in which a woman can consider consensual sex as rape if they regret it after the fact



yeah sure kobes guilty


but she settled for money cause thats probably what she wanted and why she made the allegation



theres a difference between kobe and bonds situation though



whats evident is in terms of public perception. both kobe and bonds are looked at majority wise as guilty of wrong doing whether or not either has been convicted.

the court of public opinion is what defines a person.



good thing for kobe his unfair treatment for being a man in todays feminist society has no effect on his place all time as a basketball player



unfortunately for bonds however.... it does

bonds was the GOAT even before the alleged steroid use

[kennethgriffin]

world was built for the peeps who know shit about baseball

get the fucc out of here with your racist 100 year old babe ruth shit. mother fuccing CavsFTW jr.


i'm not racist. i have ruth and mays as my goats


griffey is my favorite player


how the hell am i racist




but seriously.. you do realize that time is a constant right? it didnt stop when bonds retired


its already been almost a decade since barry last played


another 10 years from now and he'l be ancient history aswell...


would you like the new generation treating anything that happened before their time as insignificant?

no...





fact is 50-100 years from now the steroid era will pretty much be erased from history... with a small portion of its players like griffey getting a bit of recognition

[kennethgriffin]

bonds was the GOAT even before the alleged steroid use


on what planet

[warriorfan]

i'm not racist. i have ruth and mays as my goats


griffey is my favorite player


how the hell am i racist




but seriously.. you do realize that time is a constant right? it didnt stop when bonds retired


its already been almost a decade since barry last played


another 10 years from now and he'l be ancient history aswell...


would you like the new generation treating anything that happened before their time as insignificant?

no...





fact is 50-100 years from now the steroid era will pretty much be erased from history... with a small portion of its players like griffey getting a bit of recognition

OK LAz :lol

[GIF REACTION]

If public perception determined guilt, Kobe would be locked up in the slammer

But luckily for us we have this thing called the Justice system

[kennethgriffin]

OK LAz :lol


i consider the bonds situation on the same level as the oj simpson trial


i mean...


any blind idiot can understand what common sense is


do we really need admission of guilt or some sh*t


his trainer, people around him, his production after his prime, his hat size increasing 10 fold, his massive muscle gain for a scrawny guy in the early 90s, his obstruction of justice, his name coming up in testimonies, his blacklisting from baseball, his banishment from ever making the hall of fame, public opinion

i mean... my god... anyone who still backs bonds or OJ has to be on that black tip frenzy

some michael brown innocence type agenda garbage



:lol


and if a white guy supports any of them.. its obvious too much black semens been pumped up their asses in jail that theyre becoming one

[kennethgriffin]

If public perception determined guilt, Kobe would be locked up in the slammer

But luckily for us we have this thing called the Justice system


no... theres no sentencing in public opinion


youre just guilty in their eyes and thats it



and i admit kobes looked at as guilty and hes reminded of it all the time... look at larry nance jr.




luckily for me i dont care about what a guy does off the court... and i personally feel the laws unfairly favour women... so a person can be guilty and not really be ashamed of anything

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/GGMMc/retard-funny-gifs-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-804_zpsdfcf233b.gif

:sleeping

[warriorfan]

Little boy 24 doesn't know shit about baseball or basketball.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/GGMMc/retard-funny-gifs-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-804_zpsdfcf233b.gif

:sleeping

[warriorfan]

:sleeping

U don't know baseball. U don't have to post gifs making fun of handicapped people because of it. Just deal with it.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/GGMMc/retard-funny-gifs-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-804_zpsdfcf233b.gif

Anyone speak retard? I don't understand. :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

Anyone speak retard? I don't understand. :confusedshrug:

Unathletic nerd meltdown.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h385/GGMMc/retard-funny-gifs-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-804_zpsdfcf233b.gif

:confusedshrug:

[TonyMontana]

because most people you talk to probably grew up in the 80s/90s and everyone overrates sh!t that happened during their childhood becuase of "nostalgia" factors.

Also the only truly undisputed GOAT was left out, even though he played in that same era?

NHL - Wayne Gretzky

http://www.valuewalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Wayne-Gretzky-1.jpg

[dannywpt]

It's only Jordan and Gretzky who are undisputed GOATs of their sports (in the 4 big ones)?

[kennethgriffin]

There is no such thing as an undisputed goat


As far as percentages of people who think a guy is goat


Basketball:
Around 85% jordan

Hockey:
Around 90% gretzky

Football:
Around 65% rice

Baseball:
Around 80% ruth

[ArbitraryWater]

There is no such thing as an undisputed goat


As far as percentages of people who think a guy is goat


Basketball:
Around 85% jordan

Hockey:
Around 90% gretzky

Football:
Around 65% rice

Baseball:
Around 80% ruth

I found it, a reasonable kennethgriffin post...... :eek:

[feyki]

TV Broadcast .