How many PG's have averaged 25/5/5 in modern era?

[BlakFrankWhite]

Modern era (1980-)

AFAIK..Russell GOATbrook is the only point guard to do it...averaged 28/7/9 previous season.

Most productive player in the league, most alpha player in the league :applause:

[L.Kizzle]

Didn't Arenas do it a few times?

[Thesmallmamba]

The PG LeBron :applause:

[Genaro]

Didn't Arenas do it a few times?
No. Gilbert had 25/4/5, 29/3/6 and 28/4/6

[GrapeApe]

On .426 shooting and 4.4 TO's per game. Less than 2/1 assist to turnover ratio.

[Thesmallmamba]

On .426 shooting and 4.4 TO's per game. Less than 2/1 assist to turnover ratio.

Current Westbrook > Prime Wade

[dhsilv]

Modern era (1980-)

AFAIK..Russell GOATbrook is the only point guard to do it...averaged 28/7/9 previous season.

Most productive player in the league, most alpha player in the league :applause:

who cares? Those are meaningless random numbers....

Assuming that's points, rebounds, and assists the only guy to do it was Mr Pace Inflation himself Oscar....

[GrapeApe]

Current Westbrook > Prime Wade

:rolleyes:

No.

[Thesmallmamba]

:rolleyes:

No.

Better scorer? Check

Better rebounder? Check

Better playmaker? Check

:confusedshrug:

[dhsilv]

Better scorer? Check

Better rebounder? Check

Better playmaker? Check

:confusedshrug:

making the playoffs? Oh...

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Better scorer? Check

Better rebounder? Check

Better playmaker? Check

:confusedshrug:

Obviously what he meant by no. GOATbrook is a tier better.

[GrapeApe]

Better scorer? Check

Better rebounder? Check

Better playmaker? Check

:confusedshrug:

Wade averaged 30 ppg on 49% yet Westbrook is a better scorer? Wade's most inefficient shooting season of his career is better than Westbrook's best. Prime Wade was also a much better defender and much more intelligent. Wade led the league in scoring while also finishing 3rd in DPOY. He had a better assist to turnover ratio and was a more efficient playmaker. Also, get back to me when Westbrook carries a team to a title averaging 35/8/4/3 with a 30+ PER.

Westbrook is a better rebounder. That's it.

BTW, I was half joking and basically playing devil's advocate when I posted Westbrook's FG% and TO's. He's obviously a teriffic player.

[WayOfWade]

Better scorer? Absolutely not

Better rebounder? Yes

Better playmaker? Heck No

:confusedshrug:
Better Defender? Wade

Better champion? Wade, Also

In short, Wade >>>>>>>Westbrook, it's not even a debate

[GrapeApe]

Better Defender? Wade

Better champion? Wade, Also

In short, Wade >>>>>>>Westbrook, it's not even a debate

Yeah, and now that I think about it, the "better scorer" part kind of gave it away as trolling. Oh well.

[Wally450]

Better Defender? Wade

Better champion? Wade, Also

In short, Wade >>>>>>>Westbrook, it's not even a debate

:applause:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Better scorer? Check

Better rebounder? Check

Better playmaker? Check

:confusedshrug:
Prime Wade was a way better scorer not close. He had a better shot from everywhere, midrange, floaters, dropping on a dime, pullup, even 3 etc. and was a GOAT level slasher and he actually finished at elite levels at the rim unlike Westbrook who misses alot. He only shot 58% at the rim last season which is pretty bad honestly. Wade at his best was like 10%+ more efficient thats a huge edge. Plus Wade was more crafty and skilled at drawing fouls as well, had better footwork tho not the explosion.

Defensively they are a wash on rebounding. Westbrook is better overall rebounder since hes about as good as any guard has ever been on the offensive glass.

Wade kills playmaking too. He was one of the most deadly pickandroll players ever at his prime. Westbrook is really good there tho not at alltime/elite levels, defenses arent as scared of his playmaking from the perimeter/wing, its only when he drives thru the teeth of a defense and creates opportunities from the chaos inside. Wade had a higher IQ, tighter dribble and court awareness at spots outside the paint.

And defensively while his stans can overrate him at times Wade was a much better defender. Westbrook really isnt a very good defender. Nikkas just look at his steals and athleticism, but he makes alot of mistakes, rotating, spotting his man, he goes for boards sometimes and leaves his assignment, completely loses guys on screens etc. He can lock down when hes focused but hes like 2011 Kobe defensively. It got the point where OKC just used him as a roamer in their defensive sets since in a bigger role he was hurting the D alot but was allowed to gamble and freelance more with better recovery options

[bdreason]

And watched the playoffs from his couch. :applause:

[Duffy Pratt]

Not just Oscar. Jerry West did it six times. Havlicek did it twice. Maravich did it in 77. There is nothing about 1980 that marks it as the modern era, unless you insist the appearance of Bird and Magic totally altered the game.

[GrapeApe]

Prime Wade was a way better scorer not close. He had a better shot from everywhere, midrange, floaters, dropping on a dime, pullup, even 3 etc. and was a GOAT level slasher and he actually finished at elite levels at the rim unlike Westbrook who misses alot. He only shot 58% at the rim last season which is pretty bad honestly. Wade at his best was like 10%+ more efficient thats a huge edge. Plus Wade was more crafty and skilled at drawing fouls as well, had better footwork tho not the explosion.

Defensively they are a wash on rebounding. Westbrook is better overall rebounder since hes about as good as any guard has ever been on the offensive glass.

Wade kills playmaking too. He was one of the most deadly pickandroll players ever at his prime. Westbrook is really good there tho not at alltime/elite levels, defenses arent as scared of his playmaking from the perimeter/wing, its only when he drives thru the teeth of a defense and creates opportunities from the chaos inside. Wade had a higher IQ, tighter dribble and court awareness at spots outside the paint.

And defensively while his stans can overrate him at times Wade was a much better defender. Westbrook really isnt a very good defender. Nikkas just look at his steals and athleticism, but he makes alot of mistakes, rotating, spotting his man, he goes for boards sometimes and leaves his assignment, completely loses guys on screens etc. He can lock down when hes focused but hes like 2011 Kobe defensively. It got the point where OKC just used him as a roamer in their defensive sets since in a bigger role he was hurting the D alot but was allowed to gamble and freelance more with better recovery options

Very well said.

In terms of Wade's defense being overrated at times, I think that's mostly due to frustration from him being snubbed from all-defense teams he probably deserved. Kind of overcompensation I guess. All in all though, great post.

:cheers:

[Brunch@Five]

What's impressive is that Westbrook is doing this in limited minutes. He's basically putting up Oscar Roberston numbers per 40 minutes.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Monta Ellis missed it by one rebound in the 2009-2010 season. He posted 25/5/4/2.

[GrapeApe]

Monta Ellis missed it by one rebound in the 2009-2010 season. He posted 25/5/4/2.

He's a SG. Plenty of SG's have posted those numbers, though Westbrook is probably closer to a SG than a PG. It's kind of hard to call a player a PG when they average over 22 shots per game.

[dhsilv]

Not just Oscar. Jerry West did it six times. Havlicek did it twice. Maravich did it in 77. There is nothing about 1980 that marks it as the modern era, unless you insist the appearance of Bird and Magic totally altered the game.

I feel like the thread was edited as I could have sworn it wasn't 5 and 5.

That said West last did it on a team with a pace of 118. Maravich was a shooting guard no? Havlicek was listed as a small forward as well.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: Thesmallmamba go absolutely bodied. RIP, ******.

[Thesmallmamba]

:oldlol: Thesmallmamba go absolutely bodied. RIP, ******.

Keep telling that to yourself

LOL @ the idea of Westbrook missing the playoffs in the East with Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic :roll: :roll: :roll:


They'd be a contender with Westbrook, probably the best team in the league, yet with Wade they are a lottery team :oldlol:



Wade was never elite just deal with it.

[aj1987]

Keep telling that to yourself

LOL @ the idea of Westbrook missing the playoffs in the East with Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic :roll: :roll: :roll:

They'd be a contender with Westbrook, probably the best team in the league, yet with Wade they are a lottery team :oldlol:

Wade was never elite just deal with it.
You do know that those 3 played a COMBINED total of ~100 games, right?

I'll try what you did. WB missed the PO's WITH prime Durant and Ibaka, while he himself is in his prime. You really want to compare 33 year old Wade to prime/peak WB? :oldlol:

[Thesmallmamba]

Deflections :roll:

Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500

A lottery team in the weak East, just stop it :oldlol:


Westbrook was above .500 WITHOUT Durant




Think about it...


seriously..


Wade WITH Bosh and Whiteside = below .500


Westbrook WITHOUT Durant and Ibaka = above .500





This is not even close, Wade is like 2 tiers below Westbrook



:yaohappy:

[GrapeApe]

Keep telling that to yourself

LOL @ the idea of Westbrook missing the playoffs in the East with Bosh, Deng, Whiteside, Dragic :roll: :roll: :roll:


They'd be a contender with Westbrook, probably the best team in the league, yet with Wade they are a lottery team :oldlol:



Wade was never elite just deal with it.

Terrible trolling, up your game dude.

Bosh missed half the season, Dragic played 26 games, and Whiteside barely played until January and averaged 23 mpg for the season. Also, why are you comparing 33 year old Wade to current Westbrook? Lowering the bar I see.

Wade at Westbrook's age was dropping 35/8/4/3 in the finals and carrying his team to a title. Prime Wade was averaging 30/8/5/2.2/1.3 and finished 3rd in DPOY.

Not elite. :oldlol:

[Thesmallmamba]

Terrible trolling, up your game dude.

Bosh missed half the season, Dragic played 26 games, and Whiteside barely played until January and averaged 23 mpg for the season. Also, why are you comparing 33 year old Wade to current Westbrook? Lowering the bar I see.

Wade at Westbrook's age was dropping 35/8/4/3 in the finals and carrying his team to a title. Prime Wade was averaging 30/8/5/2.2/1.3 and finished 3rd in DPOY.

Not elite. :oldlol:

Read my post above you, Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500



And Westbrook is 26-27, at that age Wade was losing in the 1st round and missing the playoffs, stop lying



So, basically everything you posted was wrong, try again.

[Wade's Rings]

Deflections :roll:

Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500

A lottery team in the weak East, just stop it :oldlol:


Westbrook was above .500 WITHOUT Durant




Think about it...


seriously..


Wade WITH Bosh and Whiteside = below .500


Westbrook WITHOUT Durant and Ibaka = above .500





This is not even close, Wade is like 2 tiers below Westbrook



:yaohappy:


Damn you got wrecked and suck at trolling. Can Dubeta or 3ball give this guy some tips?

[GrapeApe]

Read my post above you, Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500



And Westbrook is 26-27, at that age Wade was losing in the 1st round and missing the playoffs, stop lying


So, basically everything you posted was wrong, try again.

You CAN'T be serious. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Deflections :roll:

Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500

A lottery team in the weak East, just stop it :oldlol:

Westbrook was above .500 WITHOUT Durant

Think about it...

seriously..

Wade WITH Bosh and Whiteside = below .500

Westbrook WITHOUT Durant and Ibaka = above .500


This is not even close, Wade is like 2 tiers below Westbrook

:yaohappy:

Again, ****tard, you're comparing prime/peak WB, who missed the PO's WITH Ibaka and KD, to a 33 year old Wade.



Which LeTurd stan are you, BTW??

[Thesmallmamba]

Which LeTurd stan are you, BTW??



So saying Westbrook >> Wade makes me a Lestan? :lol



Its called being objective, I destroyed all your arguments and you couldnt say anything


Westbrook did more with f*cking Steve Adams and Jeremy Lamb than Wade did in the games he played with Bosh and Whiteside

[Wade's Rings]

Again, ****tard, you're comparing prime/peak WB, who missed the PO's WITH Ibaka and KD, to a 33 year old Wade.



Which LeTurd stan are you, BTW??

Wade is so good he compares past prime Wade to Peak/Prime Westbrook :bowdown:

[GrapeApe]

Again, ****tard, you're comparing prime/peak WB, who missed the PO's WITH Ibaka and KD, to a 33 year old Wade.



Which LeTurd stan are you, BTW??

It's pointless arguing with that guy. I said that at Westbrook's age Wade won a title playing at a historic level and he countered that with "Westbrook is a year older, stop lying".

:oldlol:

[Young X]

Westbrook isn't a PG.

[Young X]

Being a scorer and having the highest single season usage rate in NBA history are 2 different things.

[TheCalmInsanity]

Current Westbrook > Prime Wade




Deflections :roll:

Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500

A lottery team in the weak East, just stop it :oldlol:


Westbrook was above .500 WITHOUT Durant




Think about it...


seriously..


Wade WITH Bosh and Whiteside = below .500


Westbrook WITHOUT Durant and Ibaka = above .500





This is not even close, Wade is like 2 tiers below Westbrook



:yaohappy:



Wait, PRIME WADE (the one you compared Westbrook to in your original post) was teammates with Whiteside and was below .500?

Or are you that dumb to forget your original post had the word "PRIME" in it?

[GrapeApe]

I've never gotten this logic. Out of all the great PGs in NBA history, how many of them save for like 3 weren't known for being big time scorers?

Magic, Isiah, Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Cousy, Paul, Frazier.

Basically just Big O and West were dominant scorers (if you consider West a PG). Payton perhaps as well, but I never really considered him a "big time scorer".

[LBJFTW]

Modern era (1980-)

AFAIK..Russell GOATbrook is the only point guard to do it...averaged 28/7/9 previous season.

Most productive player in the league, most alpha player in the league :applause:

You know the game is watered down and inferior to past era's when you have PG's averaging 28 ppg. And these viewers of inferior era ball wonder why no one will ever beat John Stockton's assist record. :facepalm

[Young X]

Usage rate is a function that takes into account turnovers and assists as well as field goal attempts. Add that together with the fact that Westbrook plays on a team that relies heavily on its two superstars and one of them was out for the majority of the season it's no surprise that his USG% was so high.

That doesn't mean he isn't a point guard.What makes him a PG and not guys like Wade, Lebron or Harden? Besides him being listed as one?

Other than him being a primary ballhandler nothing about his game says he's a point guard. He jacks up shots like Kobe despite shooting below league average every season, he isn't a great distributor, doesn't take care of the ball or play with any control or pace.

When he's out there, his first instinct isn't always to get his team the highest % shot possible. That's what a PG is supposed to do, not jack up more FG attempts than one of the greatest scorers ever.

I'm sorry but no PG should ever use the same amount of possessions as Jordan/Kobe/Wilt in their seasons on bad teams especially when they're not efficient.

[GrapeApe]

Magic had multiple 30 and 40 point playoff games and in the early 90s the Lakers offense was centered around him being a threat from the post. Sure, he could've been a 24ppg career scorer if he wanted but he still had times when he would go and get his

Isiah was doing 25 a game during the Pistons run & gun years. He set the finals records for points in a quarter. He was known as a relentless attacker with crazy handle

Kidd got more praise in the '03 playoffs than he did in the regular season when his scoring was up (over 20ppg) and his assists were down

Cousy had multiple playoff runs shooting around 20fga and also shooting between 35-40% from the field. No one told him to stop shooting

I've seen Gary Payton have consecutive games shooting like 23-24 times a game and no one cared. No one said he wasn't a PG.

People always cite Stockton and Nash as the two main examples of the way a "true" PG should play, because they are the only examples. And that's all well and good, I'm not saying that it's not, I just don't get this notion where shooting the ball a lot is something that's new for PGs and all PGs prior to 2008 all played like Rondo in 2011

PGs like Stockton and Nash are the exception, not the rule. It's like people think PGs can't have plays called for themselves. Is Eric Snow more of a PG than Westbrook because he sat and passed the ball instead of shooting it?

I never said some of those guys weren't capable scorers, but scoring wasn't the primary focus of their game. It's more about mentality than ability. A guy like Westbrook is a scorer first and foremost.

As Young X mentioned, guys like Wade, Lebron, Harden, and even Jordan and Kobe could be called point guards since they are primary ball handlers. It's semantics really.

[Cocaine80s]

Westbrook>Wade

I dont ever see Westbrook falling off the planet like Wade did from 2011-2015

[Thesmallmamba]

Westbrook>Wade

I dont ever see Westbrook falling off the planet like Wade did from 2011-2015

Yup, and Westbrook and Wade already have had the same amount of knee surgeries, so the 'injury' excuse every Wade stan in this thread used goes out the window


So either way you look at it, peak, prime, career Westbrook > Wade

[GrapeApe]

Westbrook>Wade

I dont ever see Westbrook falling off the planet like Wade did from 2011-2015

Over the course of those 5 years Wade has averaged 22/5/5 on 50% and been a 5x all star. If that's falling off the planet then I guess prime Wade was GOAT level.

Plus I'm not sure why you're even including 2011 and 2012 since he was obviously still an elite player those years.

[GrapeApe]

Yup, and Westbrook and Wade already have had the same amount of knee surgeries, so the 'injury' excuse every Wade stan in this thread used goes out the window


So either way you look at it, peak, prime, career Westbrook > Wade

Just stop it. Seriously. It's been thoroughly established that prime Wade was better and in terms of career Westbrook isn't even close.

[aj1987]

Magic had multiple 30 and 40 point playoff games and in the early 90s the Lakers offense was centered around him being a threat from the post. Sure, he could've been a 24ppg career scorer if he wanted but he still had times when he would go and get his

Isiah was doing 25 a game during the Pistons run & gun years. He set the finals records for points in a quarter. He was known as a relentless attacker with crazy handle

Kidd got more praise in the '03 playoffs than he did in the regular season when his scoring was up (over 20ppg) and his assists were down

Cousy had multiple playoff runs shooting around 20fga and also shooting between 35-40% from the field. No one told him to stop shooting

I've seen Gary Payton have consecutive games shooting like 23-24 times a game and no one cared. No one said he wasn't a PG.

People always cite Stockton and Nash as the two main examples of the way a "true" PG should play, because they are the only examples. And that's all well and good, I'm not saying that it's not, I just don't get this notion where shooting the ball a lot is something that's new for PGs and all PGs prior to 2008 all played like Rondo in 2011

PGs like Stockton and Nash are the exception, not the rule. It's like people think PGs can't have plays called for themselves. Is Eric Snow more of a PG than Westbrook because he sat and passed the ball instead of shooting it?
You're using minuscule sample sizes. Isiah was always ~20 PPG and went over like twice, peaking at ~22, IIRC. Same with Magic, Kidd, GP, and Cousy.

All those players were known for their high IQ, decision and playmaking. Nobody really says "Oh wow! Kidd was a terrific scorer!". That wasn't their game. Sure, Magic, Isiah, etc. could score if they wanted to. Heck, if Magic decided to be a scoring PF, he could've have a career stat line of 26/12/6 easily. As I said, that wasn't them though. They all had extremely high IQ's and looked to make the perfect play, rather than try to take over a game with their forced scoring. That's what a PG is supposed to do. Get the best available shot for yourself or you teammate.

I've seen Westbrook dribble up to the key and launch a 3 with 20 seconds left on the clock and a defender in his grill. That's just retarded basketball. I'd bet that those others have done if fewer times in their careers, than WB did in the last season alone.

I tried looking for it, but I can't find it. The best example is from 2 seasons ago. I still remember that play. There was around 18 seconds on the clock. WB was brining up the ball and KD was WIDE open on the left side of the key. Dude just launched a contested 3 from the top of the key. With a wide open KD and still ~18 seconds left on the clock. How many of those other PG did stupid shit like that. It's not like it's an isolated incident either. Dude does shit like that constantly.


The highest percentage shot is 9/10 one that is generated by Westbrook, whether it involves him shooting or getting one of his 8 assists per game.
Are you forgetting that he also racked up ~4.5-5 TOV's a game? That he shot ~42% and under 30% from the 3? Are you implying that there was no better shot available all those times he launched ill-advised contested shots?


Considering the Thunder's circumstances last year, what was Westbrook supposed to do? They had a myriad of injuries, and that's not even including Durant. Again, I'm not even saying that way he plays is the best possible way. I just don't get the logic behind people saying that he's not a PG because he shoots a lot.
He is a PG, but he more often than not plays like a 2 guard. He's basically a 2 guard stuck in the body of a PG.


Just stop it. Seriously. It's been thoroughly established that prime Wade was better and in terms of career Westbrook isn't even close.
Ignore them. They're retarded Bran stans.

[chips93]

Yup, and Westbrook and Wade already have had the same amount of knee surgeries, so the 'injury' excuse every Wade stan in this thread used goes out the window

:facepalm

this is too dumb

[Wade's Rings]

Yup, and Westbrook and Wade already have had the same amount of knee surgeries, so the 'injury' excuse every Wade stan in this thread used goes out the window


So either way you look at it, peak, prime, career Westbrook > Wade

You're trolling is horrible. I'm upset that you're trolling is this pathetic and not even you saying Westbrook > Wade :lol

[ralph_i_el]

Wade averaged 30 ppg on 49% yet Westbrook is a better scorer? Wade's most inefficient shooting season of his career is better than Westbrook's best. Prime Wade was also a much better defender and much more intelligent. Wade led the league in scoring while also finishing 3rd in DPOY. He had a better assist to turnover ratio and was a more efficient playmaker. Also, get back to me when Westbrook carries a team to a title averaging 35/8/4/3 with a 30+ PER.

Westbrook is a better rebounder. That's it.

BTW, I was half joking and basically playing devil's advocate when I posted Westbrook's FG% and TO's. He's obviously a teriffic player.


Footwork and post game:
Wade>>Westbrook

[BlakFrankWhite]

Deflections :roll:

Even WITH Bosh, Wade still went below .500

A lottery team in the weak East, just stop it :oldlol:


Westbrook was above .500 WITHOUT Durant




Think about it...


seriously..


Wade WITH Bosh and Whiteside = below .500


Westbrook WITHOUT Durant and Ibaka = above .500





This is not even close, Wade is like 2 tiers below Westbrook



:yaohappy:

This just won the arguement!

[RidonKs]

its certainly no sign of how good of a player you are

does show you're a tenacious rebounder and a shot jocker though