Why doesn't this affect Tim Duncan's legacy??

[VengefulAngel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRIMQi7X7mI

Any other top 10 player who misses a bunny like that in a game 7 would get destroyed by fans, why doesn't it seem to apply to TD.


Just playing Devil's advocate. Don't actually believe it should :P

[keep-itreal]

felt sorry for Tim Duncan. Had to carry a bunch of scrubs during that series

[SwishSquared]

His prior accomplishments are the reason people felt sorry for him instead of slamming him imo. I mean wouldn't somebody look weird for criticizing a guy with (at the time) 4 rings, perfect record in the Finals, 3 FMVPs, and 2 MVPs? He was already known as the GOAT PF and an all time great on both ends.

If this were in his first or second Finals? Eh I could see some backlash maybe. Just my 2 cents.

[GreatHILL]

nobody gives a shit about gay players

[Dragonyeuw]

1. Because his legacy was in stone already.

2. Expectations for what he can do at 37 aren't as high. Had that happened in his prime, and there may have been more of a fuss.

[Kblaze8855]

Missing a single shot in 1 game you played well in as part of a career you have been the best player on five championship teams during is hardly noteworthy.

Tim Duncan will never be heavily criticized by anyone the world takes serious. He's pretty much everything right with the sport. all anyone attempting to bring him down does is list a bunch of bullshit nobody cares about that just makes real basketball fans smirk and think less of them in the future.

he's virtually above hating on and it seems to really annoy a small section of fans who can't now and never will be able to do anything about it.

[HOoopCityJones]

1. Because his legacy was in stone already.

2. Expectations for what he can do at 37 aren't as high. Had that happened in his prime, and there may have been more of a fuss.

Bullshit. Tim Duncan was in his prime in 05 and got a MAJOR pass , no one brings up how awful he was because he's a nice guy and an all time great.

[Thesmallmamba]

Duncan's entire career is based on the 'myth' that he carried a bunch of scrubs in 2003 and therefore is an ATG. Even though he still had Parker, Robinson, Ginobli, and Pop, yup definately a bunch of 'scrubs' :facepalm


The truth is he's never been the best player on his team, but by simply carrying that 'nice guy persona' people forget every choke or underwhelming series he's had(basically every series post-2003)

[CJ Mustard]

Because Duncan in the 2013 Finals > Kobe in the 2010 Finals and Lebron in the 2011 Finals. And he was way older than either of them.

Duncan has been the cornerstone on a team that's been a contender for over 15 years straight. He's in another class than Lebron and Kobe when it comes to winning

[HOoopCityJones]

Because Duncan in the 2013 Finals > Kobe in the 2010 Finals and Lebron in the 2011 Finals. And he was way older than either of them.

Duncan has been the cornerstone on a team that's been a contender for over 15 years straight. He's in another class than Lebron and Kobe when it comes to winning

Kobe averaged 28.6 and 8 reb in the 2010 Finals. :coleman:

Do you guys just talk from the ass on a regular basis how it pertains Kobe or what?

[Dragonyeuw]

Bullshit. Tim Duncan was in his prime in 05 and got a MAJOR pass , no one brings up how awful he was because he's a nice guy and an all time great.

Maybe the outcome of the series might have had something to do with it? Maybe because, albeit on low percentages, he still managed 21/14 against Ben and Rasheed Wallace?Is Kobe's legacy impacted by 6/24 vs Boston in 2010? MJ 5/19 in 96 against Celtics? Tragic Johnson? Bird losing in the playoffs with HCA? Shaq's multiple sweeps? Hakeem's multiple first round losses before he won? Lebron's collapses in 2010 and 11?None of the GOAT players have a flawless resume, except someone like Russell. Duncan's highs far outweighs his lows, and ultimately his body of work over 19 seasons speaks for itself.

[Dragonyeuw]

Duncan's entire career is based on the 'myth' that he carried a bunch of scrubs in 2003 and therefore is an ATG. Even though he still had Parker, Robinson, Ginobli, and Pop, yup definately a bunch of 'scrubs' :facepalm


The truth is he's never been the best player on his team, but by simply carrying that 'nice guy persona' people forget every choke or underwhelming series he's had(basically every series post-2003)

Go back to sleep. Wasn't the best player in 99? Robinson wasn't better than him by then, so who else? Not the best player in 2003? Throwing out a bunch of names without context means nothing. Parker was up and coming at that point, and Ginobli was a rookie sub. There were flashes of things to come, but neither was remotely close to what they ultimately became. 2005 and 2007, even as good as Ginobli/Parker were, you honestly think they were better or more important to the Spurs success? The things I read on this fcuking board, I swear.

[HOoopCityJones]

Maybe the outcome of the series might have had something to do with it? Maybe because, albeit on low percentages, he still managed 21/14 against Ben and Rasheed Wallace?Is Kobe's legacy impacted by 6/24 vs Boston in 2010? MJ 5/19 in 96 against Celtics? Tragic Johnson? Bird losing in the playoffs with HCA? Shaq's multiple sweeps? Hakeem's multiple first round losses before he won? Lebron's collapses in 2010 and 11?None of the GOAT players have a flawless resume, except someone like Russell. Duncan's highs far outweighs his lows, and ultimately his body of work over 19 seasons speaks for itself.


All of these are brought up way more consistently than any of Duncan's shortcoming bro, stop. I'm not saying he should be stripped of his acclaim and accolades but fact of the matter is this guy gets a major pass on most things. The Olympics the previous year is a good example.

6/24 is one game out of a series that no one seems to care that Kobe was balling out of his mind up until that game 7 in which he still made or facilitated all of the crucial plays for The Lakers down the stretch in the 4th, including 15 boards. Like I said above he averaged like 29 pts and 8 reb for the entire series.

[toxicxr6]

Kobe stans coming in a talking about tim Duncan missing one shot when he was 37 years old in the NBA finals.... An NBA finals where he played exceptional...

When Kobe wasn't even making the playoffs in his prime...

Please explain that..

[ShawkFactory]

Missing a single shot in 1 game you played well in as part of a career you have been the best player on five championship teams during is hardly noteworthy.

Tim Duncan will never be heavily criticized by anyone the world takes serious. He's pretty much everything right with the sport. all anyone attempting to bring him down does is list a bunch of bullshit nobody cares about that just makes real basketball fans smirk and think less of them in the future.

he's virtually above hating on and it seems to really annoy a small section of fans who can't now and never will be able to do anything about it.
Shut it down bro

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe stans coming in a talking about tim Duncan missing one shot when he was 37 years old in the NBA finals.... An NBA finals where he played exceptional...

When Kobe wasn't even making the playoffs in his prime...

Please explain that..

Kobe only missed the playoffs in 05 during his prime, the year after Shaq left and he was battling injuries, get your facts straight. :cheers:

Even then leading a Team to the playoffs out in the Wild wild West where your second and third best players are Kwame Brown and Smush Parker is a feat within itself.

[All Net]

Missing a single shot in 1 game you played well in as part of a career you have been the best player on five championship teams during is hardly noteworthy.

Tim Duncan will never be heavily criticized by anyone the world takes serious. He's pretty much everything right with the sport. all anyone attempting to bring him down does is list a bunch of bullshit nobody cares about that just makes real basketball fans smirk and think less of them in the future.

he's virtually above hating on and it seems to really annoy a small section of fans who can't now and never will be able to do anything about it.
Amen

[Thesmallmamba]

Kobe only missed the playoffs in 05 during his prime, the year after Shaq left and he was battling injuries, get your facts straight. :cheers:

Even then leading a Team to the playoffs out in the Wild wild West where your second and third best players are Kwame Brown and Smush Parker is a feat within itself.

LOL? Caron Butler? Lamar Odom? That team was brimming with talent.


He didnt even have Kwame on his team that season :facepalm



Says how much of a "Laker fan" you are


Any top 10 GOAT would have gotten the 2005 Lakers to a top 6 seed at the very least.


Kobe's failure to not even make the playoffs with that team, is more of an indication on how bad his career is without Phil's brilliance

[HOoopCityJones]

LOL? Caron Butler? Lamar Odom? That team was brimming with talent.


He didnt even have Kwame on his team that season :facepalm



Says how much of a "Laker fan" you are


Any top 10 GOAT would have gotten the 2005 Lakers to a top 6 seed at the very least.


Kobe's failure to not even make the playoffs with that team, is more of an indication on how bad his career is without Phil's brilliance


Caron was on the 05 Team and Odom didn't emerge as a Laker until late 07 early 08 before we traded for Pau Gasol. Kobe only played 66 games that year smart one. I never even said he led anyone anywhere in 05 lol.

[toxicxr6]

Kobe only missed the playoffs in 05 during his prime, the year after Shaq left and he was battling injuries, get your facts straight. :cheers:

Even then leading a Team to the playoffs out in the Wild wild West where your second and third best players are Kwame Brown and Smush Parker is a feat within itself.


All I see is a bunch of excuses.. That's it..
It was his prime and he wasn't good enough to carry an average squad. That's the reality. That's it.. Replace him with tim Duncan and that is championship level squad.. Plain and simple.

Kobe can only win as a 1a/1b player.. He needs another elite player to get his open looks.. He was never good enough to carry a squad like 2003 tim Duncan.

[Thesmallmamba]

In terms of overall impact

LeBron > Duncan > Kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

All I see is a bunch of excuses.. That's it..
It was his prime and he wasn't good enough to carry an average squad. That's the reality. That's it.. Replace him with tim Duncan and that is championship level squad.. Plain and simple.

Kobe can only win as a 1a/1b player.. He needs another elite player to get his open looks.. He was never good enough to carry a squad like 2003 tim Duncan.

His excuses are just as good as any of Tim's sad to say , that's probably not what you want to hear but it's true.

What's your point in the bold btw? Was Tim not playing with David Robinson during his first championship run? An all time great? Were Tony and Manu not crucial members of his Team in 03?

Tim has been outplayed by Manu, Tony and Kawhi on three separate occasions in 05, 07 and 14, so what exactly are you trying to get at here?

Should I hold it against Tim that he's never defended any of his titles? The closest being to rectify the colossal choke OP is referring to?

We can play spin master all day buddy, that's all you seem to be interested in doing. :lol

[Dragonyeuw]

All of these are brought up way more consistently than any of Duncan's shortcoming bro, stop. I'm not saying he should be stripped of his acclaim and accolades but fact of the matter is this guy gets a major pass on most things. The Olympics the previous year is a good example.

6/24 is one game out of a series that no one seems to care that Kobe was balling out of his mind up until that game 7 in which he still made or facilitated all of the crucial plays for The Lakers down the stretch in the 4th, including 15 boards. Like I said above he averaged like 29 pts and 8 reb for the entire series.

They're brought up moreso because some of those players, specifically Jordan, Kobe, and Lebron, have rabid fanbases who bring up such failings to 'discredit' the other players. That's why you hear about it every 5 mins on this board. I generally find Duncan/Spurs fans to be much more reserved, at least around here, and Duncan has basically avoided the spotlight his entire career due to the nature of his game, personality, and not playing in a media circus city.

He has been criticized on the board, and others, about being a sub-par Int'l player( at least compared to his NBA level of play) and for the Spurs never repeating. To the same level as the aforementioned players? No, but that's because Duncan isn't part of the MJ/Kobe/ Lebron discussions. Duncan was playing well in the 2013 finals, at 37, and his missed shot was just about the only thing you could criticize him for. And if memory serves, he was. But we can go in circles on that: Between 1997 and 2003, Duncan won NBA rookie of the year, had 2 MVPs, 2 rings, and two Finals MVPs. That was in 6 years. Just those accomplishments themselves would make him a fringe top 10 player, without getting in being crucial parts of 3 more rings, or the longevity and consistency throughout his career. It's nitpicking over what he did in 2005 when he still put up 21/14( and WON) against a tremendous defensive frontline, or in 2013 missing a clutch shot as a 37 year old well past his prime.

[IllegalD]

It's because Duncan doesn't have a bunch of hating, rabid, obsessed losers swinging from his n*tsack (JT123, Dubeta, Mr. Feeney, Jameerthequeer, Thesmallmamba, etc.)

[j3lademaster]

I judge elite players by the length of their prime, what they could do at the peak of their powers, and a little bit of what they've accomplished in their primes.

If they're able to gracefully fall into smaller role and help their team when they're past their prime, that's just gravy; but to stay consistent with my own criteria it will have little to no effect to his overall legacy.

Duncan at that point was obviously a shell of his former self and no longer held to the standards of a early to mid 2000's Duncan. Also, Duncan's just not marketable because he's boring to watch and talk about for most fans.

[IllegalD]

All I'm reading is a bunch of excuses for Mr. Duncan... :facepalm

Dat ISH double-standard. :cheers:

[Thesmallmamba]

All I'm reading is a bunch of excuses for Mr. Duncan... :facepalm

Dat ISH double-standard. :cheers:


Yet 6/24

[IllegalD]

Yet 6/24

Right on cue! :cheers:

[3ball]

The shot he took wasn't a bunny.

The problem is that he rushed the play and took a running, fadeaway hook shot that he normally wouldn't take against a smaller player... He choked.. You'd thought he was shooting against Shaq or something.

Normally he'd gather himself, take maybe 1 dribble, and drop-step for a jump-hook of some kind, leaning a into/over the smaller defender if he can without fouling.. Instead, he was jumpy like the ball is a hot potato and took a running, fadeaway hook.
.

[Dr Hawk]

The shot he took wasn't a bunny.

The problem is that he rushed the play and took a running, fadeaway hook shot that he normally wouldn't take against a smaller player... He choked.. You'd thought he was shooting against Shaq or something.

Normally he'd gather himself, take maybe 1 dribble, and drop-step for a jump-hook of some kind, leaning a into/over the smaller defender if he can without fouling.. Instead, he was jumpy like the ball is a hot potato and took a running, fadeaway hook.

Great post

[dhsilv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRIMQi7X7mI

Any other top 10 player who misses a bunny like that in a game 7 would get destroyed by fans, why doesn't it seem to apply to TD.


Just playing Devil's advocate. Don't actually believe it should :P

1. Fans are idiots and are critical over nothing crap. Duncan flying under the radar he's avoided the idiots.
2. His legacy and career was already well established.
3. Stop reminding me! We'd have one less lebron ring on our hands! lol.

[3ball]

Great post



Thanks.. I think it should count against Duncan since he panic/choked and it might have cost his team the championship... But it shouldn't cost him anymore than Lebron missing the wide open 3-pointer and needing a lucky bounce on the offensive rebound in Game 6:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/cTFdXa.gif



Of course, in MJ and Duncan's first meeting in 1997, MJ got his chance to hit the walk-off three-pointer to force OT - and he didn't miss (and then dominated the OT to win):


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif

[Hey Yo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRIMQi7X7mI

Any other top 10 player who misses a bunny like that in a game 7 would get destroyed by fans, why doesn't it seem to apply to TD.


Just playing Devil's advocate. Don't actually believe it should :P
Miami really had no business winning that series. They lost HCA after dropping game 2. Next 3 were played in SA, losing 2 of 3. Must have B2B wins to secure a title which is not an easy thing to do against SA.

Then the B2B FMVP drills a dagger right into Kawhi's eye to secure the game 7 win and retains the title.

Duncan't shot and put back weren't even contested. Battier didn't have the length to do so.

[dhsilv]

Bullshit. Tim Duncan was in his prime in 05 and got a MAJOR pass , no one brings up how awful he was because he's a nice guy and an all time great.

Duncan was amazing in 05...he completely changed every single play in the game just by touching the ball. It was a thing of beauty!

[Hey Yo]

Thanks.. I think it should count against Duncan since he panic/choked and it might have cost his team the championship... But it shouldn't cost him anymore than Lebron missing the wide open 3-pointer and needing a lucky bounce on the offensive rebound in Game 6:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/cTFdXa.gif



Of course, in MJ and Duncan's first meeting in 1997, MJ got his chance to hit the walk-off three-pointer to force OT - and he didn't miss (and then dominated the OT to win):


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif
But he missed a hell of a lot of other shots that game.

MJ went 12 for 39 shooting 30% with a .464TS%

29pts on 39FGA....:oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199711030CHI.html

[Legends66NBA7]

Let's keep making rehashed threads.


I would figure threads like this would just die out with Kblaze's post but eh.

[dhsilv]

All of these are brought up way more consistently than any of Duncan's shortcoming bro, stop. I'm not saying he should be stripped of his acclaim and accolades but fact of the matter is this guy gets a major pass on most things. The Olympics the previous year is a good example.

6/24 is one game out of a series that no one seems to care that Kobe was balling out of his mind up until that game 7 in which he still made or facilitated all of the crucial plays for The Lakers down the stretch in the 4th, including 15 boards. Like I said above he averaged like 29 pts and 8 reb for the entire series.

A lot of the crap people say about Kobe is in response to his idiot fan boys who never shut up about a guy who's not nearly as good as they claim he is. Duncan doesn't have fans running their mouths at nearly the same rate and as a result people don't feel the need to shoot him down. The only times people attack Duncan are when people point out that Kobe for example wasn't as good as he was over their careers. For some reason stating a fact that really isn't debatable leads to rage and all this talk about who was "alpha" (yes for some reason on these boards the concepts of alpha and beta males gets brought up though nobody seems to know what it means) on these teams. Oh and then of course the old joking Phil Jackson asterisk title stuff comes out (though I don't think they understand jackson was having fun?).

It's really just petty stuff where people who don't have the understanding of the game or don't understand basic mathematics to put analytics into context resort to petty name calling and insulting people because they feel that makes their favorite players better. For the most part Duncan doesn't have enough fans or loud enough fans to do this stuff. Plus his career is pretty well established as ahead of most of the people we see talked about by the petty fans. The end result is there's not much left to be said.

Now all of that said, if Duncan were a hair better he'd have 7+ titles at this point in his career. He's definitely come up short. That is why you never see people saying he's in Jordan or Kareem level though. He definitely could be there if he'd had a few more plays and honestly even some dumb luck could have moved him up those lists all be it perhaps not deserved.

[Dragonyeuw]

But he missed a hell of a lot of other shots that game.

MJ went 12 for 39 shooting 30% with a .464TS%

29pts on 39FGA....:oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199711030CHI.html

That Bulls lineup looks horrific. No Pippen, aging Rodman and Harper, and Kukoc as the second option. Amazing that they won at all.

[Dragonyeuw]

A lot of the crap people say about Kobe is in response to his idiot fan boys who never shut up about a guy who's not nearly as good as they claim he is. Duncan doesn't have fans running their mouths at nearly the same rate and as a result people don't feel the need to shoot him down.

And nothing more needs to be said.

[HOoopCityJones]

A lot of the crap people say about Kobe is in response to his idiot fan boys who never shut up about a guy who's not nearly as good as they claim he is. Duncan doesn't have fans running their mouths at nearly the same rate and as a result people don't feel the need to shoot him down. The only times people attack Duncan are when people point out that Kobe for example wasn't as good as he was over their careers. For some reason stating a fact that really isn't debatable leads to rage and all this talk about who was "alpha" (yes for some reason on these boards the concepts of alpha and beta males gets brought up though nobody seems to know what it means) on these teams. Oh and then of course the old joking Phil Jackson asterisk title stuff comes out (though I don't think they understand jackson was having fun?).

It's really just petty stuff where people who don't have the understanding of the game or don't understand basic mathematics to put analytics into context resort to petty name calling and insulting people because they feel that makes their favorite players better. For the most part Duncan doesn't have enough fans or loud enough fans to do this stuff. Plus his career is pretty well established as ahead of most of the people we see talked about by the petty fans. The end result is there's not much left to be said.

Now all of that said, if Duncan were a hair better he'd have 7+ titles at this point in his career. He's definitely come up short. That is why you never see people saying he's in Jordan or Kareem level though. He definitely could be there if he'd had a few more plays and honestly even some dumb luck could have moved him up those lists all be it perhaps not deserved.


BULLSHIT. :roll:


So would Kobe , if he were a hair better.

[Kblaze8855]

His excuses are just as good as any of Tim's sad to say , that's probably not what you want to hear but it's true.

What's your point in the bold btw? Was Tim not playing with David Robinson during his first championship run? An all time great? Were Tony and Manu not crucial members of his Team in 03?


Manu had two twenty point games that SEASON playoffs included. He was a role player finding his way. Parker was still having people ask why Pop didnt bench him for Speedy Claxton more often and getting called out for shot selection by teammates. Duncan and Bowen were the only members of that team who were at the time...who they will be remembered as. That team was names...not people playing the games that earned them.

Drob was 54, Kevin Willis was even older and somehow still getting in 18 playoff games, Danny Ferry was spotted...somehow getting a start when he was probably 8% better at the time than he is...today. Malik Rose? THe guy whos career peaked with him a starter on a 20 win Knicks team that buried the myth of NY basketball being special?

Steve Smith had already drawn up retirement papers, Steve Kerr made 4 shots then promptly never played again, and the young players were the wildly up and down Parker, Manu in name only, Jackson looking ready to cuss Pop out for pulling him in games he was 2-12, and Speedy Claxton.


Meanwhile Duncan in his worst games that playoffs was dropping 10/23/10 and 15/20/10 triple doubles on off shooting nights or maybe a quick 18/11 as his worst game of the week. When he was on he was literally making a dynasty cry:

http://fat.gfycat.com/ImmaterialLinedGypsymoth.gif


Duncan did as much for that team as anyone ever did for a team that was even.....good. Much less a champion.

That team was Tim Duncan and people with the same name as a lot of guys who had good careers.

They were not playing like the names on the roster will be remembered.

[Dbrog]

Considering they still would have lost because Ginobili is awful, I don't think it mattered much. Not to mention Duncan was carrying that team in the twilight of his career. Kawhi was really the only other great person.

[kennethgriffin]

i agree with OP


if kobe or lebron did that. theyed never hear the end of it



duncans misfortunes are always swept under the rug



like the 5 times he lost with the #1 seed.

[Kblaze8855]

This is the kind of article coming out about the Spurs in 2003...

Tony getting criticized by the vets, Jackson being insane, Pop being questioned, and open wondering if they should sub in an entire retirement community to get the offense going:





PARKER SWAMPED IN LOSS SPURS GUARD BENCHED
BY Frank Isola /
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS /
Thursday, June 12, 2003, 12:00 AM


The boyish charm of Tony Parker, the fun-loving French point guard who up until last night had upstaged Jason Kidd in the NBA Finals, was replaced by a scowl. Bad aim usually leads to a bad mood, and last night, Parker's disposition was as nasty as his line in the box score: 1-for-12, five points, two turnovers. Afterward, David Robinson criticized his 21-year-old teammate, saying Parker took "ill-advised shots," and accused him of being passive. "Tony has to do a better job of staying involved in the game and picking and choosing moments, and I don't think Tony did a very good job of that tonight," Robinson said following the Nets' 77-76 Game 4 victory. "He's so talented, he's got to understand he plays a big role for us so he has to come in there and make things happen.

" Parker, who was averaging 21 points through the first three games, missed his last 10 shots and better served the Spurs on the bench. Backup Speedy Claxton, a Hofstra product, scored 10 points in 17 minutes and rallied San Antonio from 15 points down in the third quarter to a 63-58 lead. "There are no excuses," Parker said. "I just have to knock them down. That's basketball.

" Parker inherited a three-point lead, but in the final eight minutes, he missed two shots, failed to record an assist and the Spurs eventually lost the lead. All the blame, however, does not fall on Parker's shoulders. Tim Duncan's supporting cast betrayed him last night, particularly the Spurs' three starting guards, Parker, Bruce Bowen and Stephen Jackson. Bowen was 2-for-9 last night, Jackson was 1-for-9 and for the series the two are shooting 5-for-19 and 14-for-41, respectively. Backup shooting guard Manu Ginobili was 3-for-10 and missed what would have been the game-tying three in the last three seconds. "Did we want to make them, yeah," Bowen said. "But that's life.

" Bowen and Jackson have something else in common besides a poor shooting touch. Both players react incredulously every time Popovich removes them from the game. Jackson reentered the game with 8:04 remaining and the Spurs leading by three. He promptly committed a turnover and gave up five points to Richard Jefferson and fouled Jason Kidd as Kidd converted a finger roll. In 97 seconds with Jackson on the floor, the Spurs went from up three to down four. Popovich immediately went back to Ginobili as Jackson stormed off the court, tearing off the tape around his wrist. "That's something I can't explain," Jackson said. "It's very disappointing. That's why I have no answers.

" Popovich could have turned to Steve Kerr, who rescued the Spurs in Game 6 of the conference finals. The dilemma Popovich faces with Kerr on the floor is whom the veteran should guard. But with the Nets collapsing around Duncan, Kerr could have spread the floor. Popovich could have inserted Kerr with 1:12 remaining and the Spurs down 73-72. If the Spurs score on that possession there is a strong chance New Jersey would have called timeout, allowing Popovich to substitute Kerr for a defensive player. As it turned out, Ginobili misfired on a three, and when the Spurs finally regained possession, they were down 77-74 with 9.

1 seconds left. Kerr finally made it to the floor but failed to attempt a shot. When asked about his decision not to give Kerr more time, Popovich fired back: "I've got to answer that, right? Because I decided to do something else.
"


Those guys were...ok players. Some of them good with flashes of who they would become. Parker might have 20...he might miss every shot in the second half and piss off the vets.


That team had Duncan to rely on on both ends and Bowen and Drob to rely on on defense. Nothing else could be counted on on either end.

Lets just be real...by good team standards? It was a star and some guys.

[dhsilv]

Thanks.. I think it should count against Duncan since he panic/choked and it might have cost his team the championship... But it shouldn't cost him anymore than Lebron missing the wide open 3-pointer and needing a lucky bounce on the offensive rebound in Game 6:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/cTFdXa.gif



Of course, in MJ and Duncan's first meeting in 1997, MJ got his chance to hit the walk-off three-pointer to force OT - and he didn't miss (and then dominated the OT to win):


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-05-2015/rP-QUs.gif

Remember what Jordan did when he was 37? I mean dude was getting some golf on! I'm pretty sure he had some pretty nice puts, have any footage?

[Bankaii]

But he missed a hell of a lot of other shots that game.

MJ went 12 for 39 shooting 30% with a .464TS%

29pts on 39FGA....:oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199711030CHI.html
3Ball don't you want to address this?
Stay getting owned:roll:

[dhsilv]

BULLSHIT. :roll:


So would Kobe , if he were a hair better.

Kobe's teams tended to win the 50:50 calls unless I'm forgetting something. As we all know 2-3 different bounces and the lakers would have lost to the kings and blazers during the shaq and kobe run. The celtics I felt won their series with the lakers relatively convincingly. Was there another series or round I missed where it was that close? 04 lakers needed a bit more than a hair extra from kobe as well against the pistons.

[sportjames23]

It's because Duncan doesn't have a bunch of hating, rabid, obsessed losers swinging from his n*tsack (JT123, Dubeta, Mr. Feeney, Jameerthequeer, Thesmallmamba, etc.)


/thread

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Cause he is Tim Duncan nuff said.

[sportjames23]

But he missed a hell of a lot of other shots that game.

MJ went 12 for 39 shooting 30% with a .464TS%

29pts on 39FGA....:oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199711030CHI.html


Without Pippen and with Rodman playing like shit that game, IIRC. And the Bulls won.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

felt sorry for Tim Duncan. Had to carry a bunch of scrubs during that series


Good to see you back and posting on main forum :lol :lol ....Wind Defenders.

[Thesmallmamba]

Without Pippen and Rodman that game, IIRC. And the Bulls won.


Damn, MJ must have had some stacked teams to win while playing like complete shit

[dhsilv]

Without Pippen and with Rodman playing like shit that game, IIRC. And the Bulls won.

22 rebounds and solid defense on tim duncan is playing like shit? i didn't watch the whole game but his box score stats don't read like he was awful.

[Hey Yo]

Without Pippen and with Rodman playing like shit that game, IIRC. And the Bulls won.
So that's your excuse for MJ shooting 30% while missing 27FGA?

Rodman had 22 rebounds. He did his job.

[Lebron23]

He never gets blames even when his team underachieved in the playoffs, and quit on Team USA after the disastrous 2004 Olympics.

[dhsilv]

Your always been a box score watcher. You Stupid Puta!!!

Unless you have a youtube or torrent of the game, I can't recall every game I've ever seen let alone a game that odds are wasn't on national tv nearly 20 years ago.

The box score shows that neither robinson or duncan had a HUGE game scoring and he pulled down 22 boards before fouling out. If that's horrible I'm not sure what else to say...

[dhsilv]

I don't give a rat @$$. You are a terrible poster. Just get the F*ck out of this forum.

Aren't you cute....

[Gileraracer]

Shit happens. The other one was stacked as fvck.

[SwayDizzle]

It's because nobody gives a sh*t about Tim Duncan. When you're that boring, you can do anything you want unnoticed.

[Goro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRIMQi7X7mI

Any other top 10 player who misses a bunny like that in a game 7 would get destroyed by fans, why doesn't it seem to apply to TD.


Just playing Devil's advocate. Don't actually believe it should :P

Because old as dirt Duncan was allowed a gimmy after his teammates and Pop threw away his FMVP in game 6.

[Taller than CP3]

he was old and tired

[rmt]

he was old and tired

Don't know what they expect from a 37 year old playing 44:26 (2nd to Kawhi). Guess 30 pts / 17 rebs 61.9%FG isn't good enough for them that they harp on a missed bunny when he's dead tired at the end of the game. I'd like to see anyone of them playing high-stakes, high pressure basketball for that long at that age.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Duncan is a lot like Magic in that a ton of his failures/shortcomings get overlooked. For some reason they're both teflon. Yes, they are both all-time great players who won a ton, which helps, but they are teflon even more than other GOAT candidates like MJ/Shaq/KAJ/Wilt.

[Legends66NBA7]

Duncan is a lot like Magic in that a ton of his failures/shortcomings get overlooked. For some reason they're both teflon. Yes, they are both all-time great players who won a ton, which helps, but they are teflon even more than other GOAT candidates like MJ/Shaq/KAJ/Wilt.

What are the ton of failure/shortcomings that get overlooked for both players ?

Magic had "Tragic Magic" series and he gets the weak conference argument these days. Duncan ? He missed this shot and... 02 ? 04 ?

[Indian guy]

Duncan is a lot like Magic in that a ton of his failures/shortcomings get overlooked. For some reason they're both teflon. Yes, they are both all-time great players who won a ton, which helps, but they are teflon even more than other GOAT candidates like MJ/Shaq/KAJ/Wilt.

This is much more applicable to Bird than Magic. Magic, even in his losses, generally performed very well. Bird on the other hand has numerous playoff stinkers and a bunch of lost series' with HC. Yet, for whatever reason, he enjoys a spot-less reputation today.

[OldSchoolBBall]

What are the ton of failure/shortcomings that get overlooked for both players ?

Magic had "Tragic Magic" series and he gets the weak conference argument these days. Duncan ? He missed this shot and... 02 ? 04 ?

Never able to repeat, poor offensive efficiency in many series even in his prime etc.

[DMAVS41]

Never able to repeat, poor offensive efficiency in many series even in his prime etc.

What is the deal about repeating? They won 3 in 5 years....they've never really won under 50 games with Duncan in 18 years. This, considering circumstances, is the best 18 year run a franchise has ever had in the NBA in my opinion.

Poor offensive efficiency? That would matter more if Duncan's best attribute was his offense. It matters a whole lot more for Magic to play poorly on offense than Duncan.

Duncan isn't perfect, but there really isn't much to criticize him for. He's been elite from day 1 and has been close to the perfect team player for 18 years now both on and off the court.

He has had a career about as good as any in the history of the NBA. I rank him as the 4th best player of all time...maybe 3rd depending on how his career finishes.

He's been that good...

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

What is the deal about repeating? They won 3 in 5 years....they've never really won under 50 games with Duncan in 18 years. This, considering circumstances, is the best 18 year run a franchise has ever had in the NBA in my opinion.

Poor offensive efficiency? That would matter more if Duncan's best attribute was his offense. It matters a whole lot more for Magic to play poorly on offense than Duncan.

Duncan isn't perfect, but there really isn't much to criticize him for. He's been elite from day 1 and has been close to the perfect team player for 18 years now both on and off the court.

He has had a career about as good as any in the history of the NBA. I rank him as the 4th best player of all time...maybe 3rd depending on how his career finishes.

He's been that good...

I actually agree with you on alot of things. personally, I wouldnt put him at 3rd, but for me, 4th to 5th would be about right.

I like how people look at box score stats just because they are too lazy to look at intangibles and leadership and etc. most play by play and impact stats put duncan at another level. peak wise, he has an arguement, in my opinion, anywhere from 5-7.

and obviously, he has the 2nd greatest longevity ever, in my opinion at least. (just because the offense doesent run through him, doesent mean that it cant. its just that the spurs offense the past few seasons, when they hit their stride, has been better than any offense in nba history. i mean, in that historic finals, their offrtg was 120!)

[OldSchoolBBall]

What is the deal about repeating? They won 3 in 5 years....they've never really won under 50 games with Duncan in 18 years. This, considering circumstances, is the best 18 year run a franchise has ever had in the NBA in my opinion.


3 in 6 years, not 5.


He has had a career about as good as any in the history of the NBA. I rank him as the 4th best player of all time...maybe 3rd depending on how his career finishes.

He's been that good...

No, he has not been the 3rd-4th best player of all time. Sorry.

[Odinn]

Bird didn't repeat as well.
Magic got his repeat thanks to a phantom call. An Kareem would be without a repeat as well.
Kobe and Shaq only won 1 MVP awards each, only 2 players in top 10 without b2b mvp awards.

So?.. I can play this game. Only Jordan and Russell would survive.

[IllegalD]

What is the deal about repeating? They won 3 in 5 years....they've never really won under 50 games with Duncan in 18 years. This, considering circumstances, is the best 18 year run a franchise has ever had in the NBA in my opinion.

Poor offensive efficiency? That would matter more if Duncan's best attribute was his offense. It matters a whole lot more for Magic to play poorly on offense than Duncan.

Duncan isn't perfect, but there really isn't much to criticize him for. He's been elite from day 1 and has been close to the perfect team player for 18 years now both on and off the court.

He has had a career about as good as any in the history of the NBA. I rank him as the 4th best player of all time...maybe 3rd depending on how his career finishes.

He's been that good...


:eek:

:facepalm

:lol :roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude, Dirk doesn't even crack the Top 10. :no:

[DMAVS41]

3 in 6 years, not 5.



No, he has not been the 3rd-4th best player of all time. Sorry.

They won in 03, 05, and 07. Unless I'm missing something...that is 3 in 5 years.


There is no "sorry"...about it. He has an argument for that range of a player...the only reason people don't routinely put him there is because of his boring style combined with playing in a small market like San Antonio. If Duncan played his entire career on the Knicks and the Knicks had an 18 year run like this...he'd be getting talked about in a much different way in the all time rankings.

[Thesmallmamba]

They won in 03, 05, and 07. Unless I'm missing something...that is 3 in 5 years.


There is no "sorry"...about it. He has an argument for that range of a player...the only reason people don't routinely put him there is because of his boring style combined with playing in a small market like San Antonio. If Duncan played his entire career on the Knicks and the Knicks had an 18 year run like this...he'd be getting talked about in a much different way in the all time rankings.

LOL, replace any player in the top 10 in place of Duncan, and Spurs win 4-5 rings at least during that span


How does Duncan have an argument for #4?


Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic


Shaq is also better than Duncan, quite convincingly imo


Duncan is on par or worse than Bird, Bird had a better peak though


Also depends how you rate Wilt all time, if you value dominance

#6-7 is more accurate for Duncan all time

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

LOL, replace any player in the top 10 in place of Duncan, and Spurs win 4-5 rings at least during that span


How does Duncan have an argument for #4?


Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic


Shaq is also better than Duncan, quite convincingly imo


Duncan is on par or worse than Bird, Bird had a better peak though


Also depends how you rate Wilt all time, if you value dominance

#6-7 is more accurate for Duncan all time

2003.

Shaq would be better than duncan is we are talking about peaks.

Shaq takes a massive crap on almost everyone when it comes to his peak.

but we arent talking about his peak.

[DMAVS41]

LOL, replace any player in the top 10 in place of Duncan, and Spurs win 4-5 rings at least during that span


How does Duncan have an argument for #4?


Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic


Shaq is also better than Duncan, quite convincingly imo


Duncan is on par or worse than Bird, Bird had a better peak though


Also depends how you rate Wilt all time, if you value dominance

#6-7 is more accurate for Duncan all time


Completely disagree. You are not guaranteed to win 4 or 5 titles replacing Duncan with any top 10 players.

I would actually take Duncan over Kareem. I didn't see Wilt or Russell play...so I can't really weigh in on those two much.

I have Russell over Duncan and Magic over Duncan right now though.

I definitely wouldn't take Bird over Duncan. Duncan's longevity trumps Bird here.

I won't argue much with someone taking Shaq, but I think Duncan's ability to play any role and his leadership on and off the court make him a more valuable player than Shaq all time.

But you say he might be 6 all time...yet you have an issue with someone putting him 4? LOL...after certain tiers....there is a lot of subjectivity in the top 10.

[Sarcastic]

Duncan has probably the most coddled legacy of all time. He gets a +10 every time he does something good, but only gets a -1 when he does something not so good.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan has probably the most coddled legacy of all time. He gets a +10 every time he does something good, but only gets a -1 when he does something not so good.

In what way?

I mean....

He's on the short list of best two way players of all time.
He's on the short list of best teammate of all time.
He's on the short list of best guys that can dominate a game without the ball.
His 18 years in the league have arguably been the most successful 18 years any player/franchise has ever had.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/bill-russells-celtics-were-great-tim-duncans-spurs-have-been-better/

The above is based on objective data. You can't come up with stuff like that if his run hasn't been historic.

[dhsilv]

Lets all remember during the early 00's Laker run the lakers found themselves in two game seven OT games. Stuff happens in basketball and sometimes you get lucky. You can argue all day that great teams and players always find a way, but the reality is sometimes the ball just bounces the wrong way or a lesser player just makes the play.

We all remember the Fisher shot with what was it .4 seconds? That shot goes the other way and Duncan's the hero with a crazy game winner. The absurd foul on Dirk my Manu a few years later (I still strongly believe the spurs win the title that year if they get past the mavs). The Bosh rebound to give ray allen that shot. That isn't to say the Spurs haven't had luck. The 3 pointer by Duncan against the suns, the hip check by Horry.

We can all play what ifs about if Manu and Parker were actually healthy during some of the playoff runs as well.

The point here not to make excuses for Duncan's failings but more to put into context how small the margins for error are and how truly close Duncan and those spurs teams came to not just repeating but really being on another tier.

As for Duncan's all time ranking the top 10 is a mess. Most people are pretty unsure where he should rank next to wilt and russel since very few of us saw them play. MJ is MJ. I'm standing buy Kareem's legacy is just too much to pass. From there I'm not sure why Magic gets the bump over Duncan though I feel like it's fair. Bird's peak with 3 MVP's in a row is a bit better than Duncan but career wise I have to give it to Duncan. I don't see the argument for Shaq especially give the games missed during his peak. Lebron is in the discussion for Duncan's spot, but I'm not ready to give him that one yet. I need a few more ALL NBA seasons or another ring. After those players I'm not sure who's really left to argue that they've had a career better than Duncan.

[houston]

it did affect his legacy they lost the series:applause:

[rmt]

it did affect his legacy they lost the series:applause:

Cost him another FMVP too - that would have been a nice honor - MJ (6), Duncan (4) and Magic and Shaq (3). And Lebron with only 1 ring. But they probably wouldn't have won in 2014 (especially not in that fashion) and 2014 was SO satisfying.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Cost him another FMVP too - that would have been a nice honor - MJ (6), Duncan (4) and Magic and Shaq (3). And Lebron with only 1 ring. But they probably wouldn't have won in 2014 (especially not in that fashion) and 2014 was SO satisfying.

:cheers:

[sportjames23]

Completely disagree. You are not guaranteed to win 4 or 5 titles replacing Duncan with any top 10 players.

I would actually take Duncan over Kareem. I didn't see Wilt or Russell play...so I can't really weigh in on those two much.

I have Russell over Duncan and Magic over Duncan right now though.

I definitely wouldn't take Bird over Duncan. Duncan's longevity trumps Bird here.

I won't argue much with someone taking Shaq, but I think Duncan's ability to play any role and his leadership on and off the court make him a more valuable player than Shaq all time.

But you say he might be 6 all time...yet you have an issue with someone putting him 4? LOL...after certain tiers....there is a lot of subjectivity in the top 10.

:eek:

[HOoopCityJones]

:eek:

Bruh talking out his ass as always.

[DMAVS41]

Bruh talking out his ass as always.


Let me guess....you've been watching Kareem since 1970

[Naero]

It's simple, and it applies to any franchise where its culture doesn't lend itself into the perceptual over-hyping of players.

Fair or not, the genesis of most flak for players stems from the fans

[IllegalD]

I never agree with DMAVs, but I have to agree with him on this one.

At the very least Duncan over Kareem is an argument that can be had. Kareem has the edge offensively, obviously, but Duncan has the edge defensively.

Kareem never won a ring without another Top 10 player by his side (first ring with Big O, next 4 with Magic).

Duncan had good teams but he's never had another Top 10 player as a teammate like Kareem and Shaq had.

Not to mention that Duncan has the edge in Finals MVP. Funny how no one ever brings up Kareem's 2 Finals MVP to 6 rings ratio...

[Spurs5Rings2014]

I never agree with DMAVs, but I have to agree with him on this one.

At the very least Duncan over Kareem is an argument that can be had. Kareem has the edge offensively, obviously, but Duncan has the edge defensively.

Kareem never won a ring without another Top 10 player by his side (first ring with Big O, next 4 with Magic).

Duncan had good teams but he's never had another Top 10 player as a teammate like Kareem and Shaq had.

Not to mention that Duncan has the edge in Finals MVP. Funny how no one ever brings up Kareem's 2 Finals MVP to 6 rings ratio...

They don't bring up a lot of things. Like Kareem winning almost all of his MVP's in the worst era of NBA history. Or the fact that he only won a single ring during that era despite being pretty much the only top 10 player who played during that time. Or the fact that he was a glorified roleplayer (much worse than Duncan was in '14) for his last 1-2 rings. Or the fact that he played in a historically weak conference for most of his rings. Or the fact that his team in said conference was the most stacked of the era by far having multiple top 10 players of all time while other teams were lucky to have even 1 with most having 0.

The list goes on and on.

Do people really think Duncan wins LESS rings playing with Magic? On a stacked team in a weak conference? Do people think Duncan doesn't win a bunch of MVP's in the 70's with no Shaq, Kobe, etc?

C'mon. Context people. Use it.