Kobe/Shaq or Pippen/Jordan?

[West-Side]

I've had this discussion with a Jordan fan last week.
I ended the conversation with a what-if scenario.

Switch their role players, which team would improve?
The greatest myth about Jordan is his help. The fact that THREE of his teammates made the all-star team when he played for the Sox should solidify how underrated his teammates were throughout the 90's.

BJ Armstrong
Horace Grant
Bill Carthwright
John Paxton
Toni Kokuc
Dennis Rodman
Ron Harper

Or

Glen Rice (for 1 year)
Derek Fisher
Robert Horry
Rick Fox
Brian Shaw
AC Green (36 year old)
Ron Harper (36 year old)
Deveon George
Horace Grant (35 year old)
Samaki Walker

I see Kobe & Shaq winning every title that the Bulls won in the 90's with that supporting cast.

Just envision.

Shaq, Grant, Bryant, Paxton, BJ Armstrong from 91 - 93'.
Shaq, Rodman, Kokuc, Bryant, Harper from 96' - 98'.

The Bulls had 3-4 players arguably as good as the best role player Shaq & Kobe had (for 1 year) by the name of Glen Rice.

Grant, Kokuc, Rodman & Ron Harper.
Heck, Harper with the Clippers dropped 20 PPG, 6 RPG & 5 APG (and 2 SPG) before coming to the Bulls in 95.

Both Grant & Armstrong made the all-star squad in 94'.

[Marchesk]

Horry doe

[OldSchoolBBall]

Armstrong was one of the weakest all-star selections in history. He was a 15 pt/4 ast player. Grant was only moderately better as a selection, mostly because of his defense. Fact is, 1994 was a down year for the league as a whole for several reasons, and the ASG that year exemplified it.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Like KobeShaq, Drose and Butler we be balling

[Thesmallmamba]

The team with 2 superstars will always beat the team with 1 superstar and 1 star


Therefore....











I'm picking Jordan and Pippen

[IllegalD]

Armstrong was one of the weakest all-star selections in history. He was a 15 pt/4 ast player. Grant was only moderately better as a selection, mostly because of his defense. Fact is, 1994 was a down year for the league as a whole for several reasons, and the ASG that year exemplified it.

Can't wait to hear the downplaying excuses by you and the rest of the Jordan Stanleys when Kukoc inevitably gets selected into the Hall of Fame, making a grand total of 3 HOF teammates for Jordan during the 2nd 3peat (Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc) :lol :facepalm

[OldSchoolBBall]

Can't wait to hear the downplaying excuses by you and the rest of the Jordan Stanleys when Kukoc inevitably gets selected into the Hall of Fame, making a grand total of 3 HOF teammates for Jordan during the 2nd 3peat (Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc) :lol :facepalm

So a 15/4 player is an all-star most years? :facepalm :roll:

[IllegalD]

So a 15/4 player is an all-star most years? :facepalm :roll:

And Horrace Grant's 15 and 11 on 52% FG and elite D isn't? :confusedshrug:

I bet you're the type of dude that cites Lamar Odom (never even made an All-star) whenever you talk about how "stacked Kobe's teams were". But then here you are downplaying Jordan's help. :lol

Jordan Stanleys... :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe and shaq on the 90s bulls in place of jordan and pippen woulda won 8-9 championships


Pippens a legend. Top 20-25


But kobe and shaq are both top 6-8 all time

[j3lademaster]

And Horrace Grant's 15 and 11 on 52% FG and elite D isn't? :confusedshrug:How is this a response to:
So a 15/4 player is an all-star most years? :facepalm :roll:?

[Clifton]

I think most would agree that Kobe/Shaq has the advantage over Jordan/Pippen.

The reason it's a conversation is because the CHEMISTRY between Pippen and Jordan allowed them to play together for a decade, and their chemistry improved as they aged, making them just as deadly. Same can not be said for Shaq and Kobe. But at their 3-peat best? Shaq and Kobe are the deadlier duo IMO. OP is right that 3peat Lakers won with a pathetic supporting cast.

It's a good thing for the league that people didn't understand the value of 3-and-D roleplayers then like they do now.

[Papaya Petee]

Kobe and Shaq for me. 2 superstars vs 1 superstar and 1 allstar

[97 bulls]

I don't see the point of this..... I see no reason why Jordan/Pippen wouldn't win three championships with the Lakers cast like Shaq/Kobe.

Even more. Jordan and Pippen never lost when favored. Shaq and Kobe were supposed to beat the Pistons in 04.

Finally, the only difference between Kobe Bryants career and Scottie Pippen is that Bryant got and extra 10 years to fail and succeed. Pip didn't had Bryant stayed behind Shaq, he wouldn't be regarded as high. Fortunately, the Lakers and the NBA gifted Gasol to the Lakers so that Bryant ended up with the best team in the league again.

[West-Side]

I don't see the point of this..... I see no reason why Jordan/Pippen wouldn't win three championships with the Lakers cast like Shaq/Kobe.

Even more. Jordan and Pippen never lost when favored. Shaq and Kobe were supposed to beat the Pistons in 04.

Finally, the only difference between Kobe Bryants career and Scottie Pippen is that Bryant got and extra 10 years to fail and succeed. Pip didn't had Bryant stayed behind Shaq, he wouldn't be regarded as high. Fortunately, the Lakers and the NBA gifted Gasol to the Lakers so that Bryant ended up with the best team in the league again.

Dumbass at its finest.
2001 Kobe shits on anything Pippen has ever done; especially in the playoffs.

[G0ATbe]

Kobe > Jordan
Shaq = Pippen


I'll take Kobe/Shaq in a heartbeat. Any duo that has a guy who can outscore an entire team alone should win by default:bowdown: .

[West-Side]

Only true Jordan **** suckers actually believe Odom & Gasol is better than Pippen/Grant/Armstrong or Rodman/Pippen/Kokuc.

The only reason LA became the best team when they acquired Gasol is because of KOBE BRYANT. LA had the best record in the west before Bynum went down that year as well.

If you don't believe me go re-watch the playoffs from 08' to 10' and see how Kobe dominated teams in the playoffs.

[West-Side]

Kobe > Jordan
Shaq = Pippen


I'll take Kobe/Shaq in a heartbeat. Any duo that has a guy who can outscore an entire team alone should win by default:bowdown: .

Kobe & Shaq is clearly better.
Not only from a dominance & talent perspective but from a match-up perspective. An inside-outside threat just makes you a far more efficient and balanced team.

[97 bulls]

Dumbass at its finest.
2001 Kobe shits on anything Pippen has ever done; especially in the playoffs.
I disagree. All Kobe is is a better scorer. If you feel this way fine. You keep your stats. I want the results.

And to add to your idiotic topic. Why stop at Jordan and Pippen (agenda cough)? What about Bird and Mchakes Celtics? Or Magic and Jabaar? Or Russell and Cousey? Hell move on.to duos that didn't win because their talent wasn't very good.

The fact is the Shaq/Kobe Lakers won becaue of them and lost because of them. That team was talented. You just had two pre-madonnas arguing over shots. Thats why Glen Rice complained so much.

And don't even get me started on Kobe.

[97 bulls]

Only true Jordan **** suckers actually believe Odom & Gasol is better than Pippen/Grant/Armstrong or Rodman/Pippen/Kokuc.

I agree. Thats why the Bulls win average during their best three seasons, is higher than the Shaq/Kobe Lakers best single season.


The only reason LA became the best team when they acquired Gasol is because of KOBE BRYANT. LA had the best record in the west before Bynum went down that year as well.
It was all because if Bryant, but when Bynum goes down, they play .500 ball (roughly), then Bryant publicly demads a trade on the Stephen A. Smith show. Apparently Kobe himself didn't feel it was only him.

[La Frescobaldi]

kobe & shaq for my part those boys would've tore it up somethin fierce anytime, anyplace

[1987_Lakers]

I don't think we will ever see a duo like 2001 Shaq & Kobe again.

'01 Postseason (15-1)
Shaq - 30 PPG | 15 RPG | 3 APG | 2.4 BPG | 55 FG%
Kobe - 29 PPG | 7 RPG | 6 APG | 47 FG%

Kobe as a 22 year old was already better than any version of Pippen, when has Pippen ever performed like '01 Kobe did in the postseason? And we all know peak Shaq was right up there with Jordan as well. If you are talking longevity then you go with Jordan/Pippen, but just talking about straight up talent and dominance then the answer is Shaq/Kobe.

[GrapeApe]

I disagree. All Kobe is is a better scorer. If you feel this way fine. You keep your stats. I want the results.

That's a bit disingenuous. 2001 Kobe was a great all around player and an outstanding defender. In the playoffs he played at a historically good level offensively while also being tasked with guarding the opponent's top perimeter player. I don't think it's unfair or a knock against Pippen to say that 2001 Kobe reached a level of overall play that Pippen never achieved. Few perimeter players in history have. That's a top 10 player all time arguably his best.

I also don't really understand the comment about stats and results since the Lakers won a title. Kobe had amazing stats and reached the pinnacle of results. What other results are you looking for?

[Goro]

Pippen and Jordan's disadvantage is that taking Shaq away from the Lakers really strips them of bigs, much worse than the bigs on the Bulls.

Kobe and Shaq are more balanced with the Bulls, but I still don't see them sticking together for all the years from 91-98. They split by '95 just like Shaq and Kobe couldn't co-exist in the mid-2000s.

[1987_Lakers]

That's a bit disingenuous. 2001 Kobe was a great all around player and an outstanding defender. In the playoffs he played at a historically good level offensively while also being tasked with guarding the opponent's top perimeter player. I don't think it's unfair or a knock against Pippen to say that 2001 Kobe reached a level of overall play that Pippen never achieved. Few perimeter players in history have. That's a top 10 player all time arguably his best.

I also don't really understand the comment about stats and results since the Lakers won a title. Kobe had amazing stats and reached the pinnacle of results. What other results are you looking for?

Ya, anyone who thinks a peak Pippen was a better player than '01 Kobe needs to have their heads examined, Kobe was already playing at a top 10 all-time level by that point.

[Goro]

Ya, anyone who thinks a peak Pippen was a better player than '01 Kobe needs to have their heads examined, Kobe was already playing at a top 10 all-time level by that point.
:roll:

[Bankaii]

That's a bit disingenuous. 2001 Kobe was a great all around player and an outstanding defender. In the playoffs he played at a historically good level offensively while also being tasked with guarding the opponent's top perimeter player. I don't think it's unfair or a knock against Pippen to say that 2001 Kobe reached a level of overall play that Pippen never achieved. Few perimeter players in history have. That's a top 10 player all time arguably his best.

I also don't really understand the comment about stats and results since the Lakers won a title. Kobe had amazing stats and reached the pinnacle of results. What other results are you looking for?
In this giant post you didn't address what you bolded at all.

Other than scoring, was Kobe better at
Defense?
Stealing?
Blocking?
Playmaking?
Rebounding?

Literally all aspects Kobe was better at only involve scoring.


Ya, anyone who thinks a peak Pippen was a better player than '01 Kobe needs to have their heads examined, Kobe was already playing at a top 10 all-time level by that point.
Dumbest post of the day.

[feyki]

2001 Kobe-Shaq better than any version of Jordan-Pippen . But 91-93 Jordan-Pipen better than 00,02,03,04 Kobe-Shaq . And than 00,02,03,04 Kobe-Shaq better than 95-98 Jordan-Pippen .

[HOoopCityJones]

Ya, anyone who thinks a peak Pippen was a better player than '01 Kobe needs to have their heads examined, Kobe was already playing at a top 10 all-time level by that point.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btu00qoIAAEQz9r.jpg:large

And this was the year before , where Kobe's widely considered a glorified sidekick.

[Straight_Ballin]

So Pippen and Jordan who have never lost a finals together and have undisputed excellent team chemistry are inferior to Shaq/Kobe that split up and couldn't beat the 04 Pistons?

:lol :lol

Dat ISH logic running wild!

[gcvbcat]

Kobe and shaq on the 90s bulls in place of jordan and pippen woulda won 8-9 championships


Pippens a legend. Top 20-25


But kobe and shaq are both top 6-8 all time

shakeel is majorly overrated on this forum, jordan & pippen all day.

[Angel Face]

Jordan - Pippen is the better duo. Kobe and Shaq has known chemistry issues, while Pippen always knew that he was MJ's sidekick at best. Kobe tried to take the top dog position from Shaq (2004) they got embarrassed. At least we know Jordan and Pip wouldn't have that kind of problem because Pip knew his role.

6/6 > 3/4

[GrapeApe]

In this giant post you didn't address what you bolded at all.

Other than scoring, was Kobe better at
Defense?
Stealing?
Blocking?
Playmaking?
Rebounding?

Literally all aspects Kobe was better at only involve scoring.

I absolutely addressed what I bolded. Kobe was better at the aspect of basketball. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. The post I was responding to implied that while Kobe was a better scorer, Pippen was the better overall player. It's a passive aggressive way of downplaying Kobe's abilities outside of scoring. Think of it in terms of someone who knows nothing about Kobe or Pippen. What he said would lead them to believe that Pippen was a better player, which IMO is disingenuous because it simply isn't true.

Kobe was obviously more than just a great scorer, and his overall play in 2001 surpassed a level Pippen had ever reached. I didn't feel it necessary to break down every individual element of the game. It's irrelevant that Pippen may have been marginally better at more things. Kobe was the better player, and that was my point.

[GoatBoy]

shakeel is majorly overrated on this forum, jordan & pippen all day.
00-02 is arguably the greatest three year stretch in NBA history. How is he overrated?

[Rocketswin2013]

That's a bit disingenuous. 2001 Kobe was a great all around player and an outstanding defender. In the playoffs he played at a historically good level offensively while also being tasked with guarding the opponent's top perimeter player. I don't think it's unfair or a knock against Pippen to say that 2001 Kobe reached a level of overall play that Pippen never achieved. Few perimeter players in history have. That's a top 10 player all time arguably his best.

I also don't really understand the comment about stats and results since the Lakers won a title. Kobe had amazing stats and reached the pinnacle of results. What other results are you looking for?
Something I've noticed... People overrate the shit out of Kobe's defense that postseason. Guy was blending in out there with Fisher and the rest. Shaw's intimidation was the main reason they were so good out there.


And by the time the Finals came around, Kobe's was getting beat like a drum off the dribble. Only to have Shaq literally throw shots into the stands.

[1987_Lakers]

Dumbest post of the day.

2001 WCF
Kobe - 33 PPG | 7 RPG | 7 APG | 51 FG% (Had a better series than Shaq)

2001 WCSF
Kobe - 35 PPG | 9 RPG | 4 APG | 47 FG%

You are really going to sit here and say a prime Pippen was as good as '01 Kobe? Kobe was slaughtering teams that year, Pippen never in his career was that dominant.

[1987_Lakers]

In this giant post you didn't address what you bolded at all.

Other than scoring, was Kobe better at
Defense?
Stealing?
Blocking?
Playmaking?
Rebounding?

Dumbest post of the day.

Pippen was better than Michael Jordan in pretty much every category you just mentioned, does that make him better than Jordan?:oldlol:

What kind of logic do you have?

[aj1987]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btu00qoIAAEQz9r.jpg:large

And this was the year before , where Kobe's widely considered a glorified sidekick.
You Kobeturds cling onto that one game. What happened in the closeout game? Game 5, when the Lakers had a 3-1 series lead.

[Thesmallmamba]

You Kobeturds cling onto that one game. What happened in the closeout game? Game 5, when the Lakers had a 3-1 series lead.

Ether :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Dumbest post of the day.

Pippen was better than Michael Jordan in pretty much every category you just mentioned, does that make him better than Jordan?:oldlol:

What kind of logic do you have?
No. Because Michael Jordan was also better than Bryant at all those categories and he was more efficient, his defense was also better than Bryant as well as his over all floor game.

Kobe was great, BUT, his IQ in my opinion wasn't as good as other greats.

This logic never ceases to amaze me. Stop putting so much damn stock in stats. Bryant has cost his team at least one championship. his attitude that he needs ti be the man has cost the Lakers at least two championships. You can't say the same for Jordan.

[1987_Lakers]

No. Because Michael Jordan was also better than Bryant at all those categories and he was more efficient, his defense was also better than Bryant as well as his over all floor game.

Kobe was great, BUT, his IQ in my opinion wasn't as good as other greats.

This logic never ceases to amaze me. Stop putting so much damn stock in stats. Bryant has cost his team at least one championship. his attitude that he needs ti be the man has cost the Lakers at least two championships. You can't say the same for Jordan.

That same attitude won Kobe back to back championships once Shaq left, Pippen as the man couldn't even reach a Finals in a year when Ewing with role players & Hakeem with role players reached the Finals.:oldlol:

[Wade's Rings]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btu00qoIAAEQz9r.jpg:large

And this was the year before , where Kobe's widely considered a glorified sidekick.

Where was Kobe in Games 5 & 6 of that series?

[GrapeApe]

Something I've noticed... People overrate the shit out of Kobe's defense that postseason. Guy was blending in out there with Fisher and the rest. Shaw's intimidation was the main reason they were so good out there.


And by the time the Finals came around, Kobe's was getting beat like a drum off the dribble. Only to have Shaq literally throw shots into the stands.

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree. There's some truth to I suppose, and Shaw was definitely tenacious out on the edge. Kobe's lateral quickness has never been stellar and he did get beat from time to time, but overall I thought he was very good defensively, especially in late game situations. In terms of the Pippen comparison, Kobe obviously wasn't at his level. However when you combine what was at worst "good" defense with 29/7/6 on 56%TS, I don't see how it can be argued that Pippen ever reached 2001 Kobe's level of overall play.

[HOoopCityJones]

You Kobeturds cling onto that one game. What happened in the closeout game? Game 5, when the Lakers had a 3-1 series lead.

You're just a salty bitch because while Kobe was out performing Prime Shaq your boy Dwade was carrying his old corpse while walking to the line thanks to the Refs. Back the fucc up bitch this is just to support 1987 Lakers point about Kobe's all around game in 01, just look at those numbers, this is the year all of you harp about 15ppg and all that bullshit. This is Kobe before his maturity in the 01 post season.

Now go sit down or go suck a D!ck and get off my nuts.

[97 bulls]

That same attitude won Kobe back to back championships once Shaq left, Pippen as the man couldn't even reach a Finals in a year when Ewing with role players & Hakeem with role players reached the Finals.:oldlol:
The same attitude????? The Lakers (along with the Celtics) had the best team in the league. Bynum went went down, Bryant cried and demanded a trade cuz the Lakers, (a team he led) was playing .500 ball and he couldn't do it by himself. What won the Lakers the championship was them getting Gasol.

And mind you, I'm not saying Gasol was the best player, or that he won by himself. But trying to push across this asinine narrative that one man (Bryant) and his attitude, won on his own is ridiculous.

Give any great player 3-4 years leading the best team in the league and theyd win too.

[97 bulls]

I got a question. How many times has a player had the best team in the league for at least three year and NOT been able to win at least one championship? I think its very rare.

[jstern]

Funny, I'm reading the Phil Jackson book, I'm up to the Laker's 3 peat part, and the way Phil describes the team, that is pretty good. It's set up to help Shaq, and he mentions some of the adjustments made with the personnel. So just looking at the list, it feels as if the Lakers would lose if you simply switch the teams.

But I understand that this is all about superficial thinking.

[aj1987]

You're just a salty bitch because while Kobe was out performing Prime Shaq your boy Dwade was carrying his old corpse while walking to the line thanks to the Refs. Back the fucc up bitch this is just to support 1987 Lakers point about Kobe's all around game in 01, just look at those numbers, this is the year all of you harp about 15ppg and all that bullshit. This is Kobe before his maturity in the 01 post season.

Now go sit down or go suck a D!ck and get off my nuts.
:biggums:

What does Wade have to do with Kobe and Shaq, you ****ing idiot? Kobe choked his ass off in a game which should have closed out the series. Got carried by Shaq to 3 titles. That's an indisputable fact. You Kobeturds can't cry all you want, but that won't change history.

Do you want to post their numbers from the Finals that year?

[catch24]

Kobe was never better than Shaq from 2000-2002. For a series or two? I'll buy that, but for entire seasons and playoff runs? Hell no.

Kobe was somewhat of a 1B in 2001, but he wasn't on Shaq's level.

MDE in 2000 = probably the greatest player in history.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe was never better than Shaq from 2000-2002. For a series or two? I'll buy that, but for entire seasons and playoff runs? Hell no.

Kobe was somewhat of a 1B in 2001, but he wasn't on Shaq's level.

MDE in 2000 = probably the greatest player in history.

Agreed. :cheers:

[Showtime2001]

:biggums:

What does Wade have to do with Kobe and Shaq, you ****ing idiot? Kobe choked his ass off in a game which should have closed out the series. Got carried by Shaq to 3 titles. That's an indisputable fact. You Kobeturds can't cry all you want, but that won't change history.

Do you want to post their numbers from the Finals that year?
http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg

Indisputable fact doe. :lol

[Thesmallmamba]

http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg

Indisputable fact doe. :lol

Finals average 2000-2002


Shaq 36/15 on 58%Fg


Kobe 22/4 on 42%FG


:lol

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq and Kobe were better as a duo but Jordan and Pippen were greater as a duo.

[Showtime2001]

Finals average 2000-2002


Shaq 36/15 on 58%Fg


Kobe 22/4 on 42%FG


:lol
2001 Playoffs average

Kobe 29/7/6 on 47% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Kobe 26/5/4 on 43% FG

"carried doe contributed nothing doe" :lol

[aj1987]

2001 Playoffs average

Kobe 29/7/6 on 47% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Kobe 26/5/4 on 43% FG

"carried doe contributed nothing doe" :lol
2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG

And point me to where I said Kobe contributed nothing. He was carried without a doubt, but he was great in the PO's.

[Showtime2001]

2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG

And point me to where I said Kobe contributed nothing. He was carried without a doubt, but he was great in the PO's.
Players who put up numbers like Kobe did during those playoff runs aren't being "carried" sorry to burst your bubble.

Mark Madsen, Robert Horry, Brian Shaw yeah you could say those guys were carried but its definitely an indisputable fact that Kobe was not carried get over it.

[jstern]

http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg

Indisputable fact doe. :lol

I'm reading the latest Phil Jackson book, where he talks about these series, and it's a perfect example of how stats can be misleading. He talks about how the plan of the opposing team was to hack the hell out of Shaq, double and triple teaming him, which allowed for Kobe to go off. Shaq was the complete and absolute focus of the defense. And yes it was nice for them to have a Kobe. And it was nice for Kobe not to be the focus.

[Foster5k]

It's hard to go against Jordan and Pippen. They won 6 championships. Jordan got labeled the greatest player of all time, etc. So, I have to go with Jordan and Pippen. We all know how the Kobe/Shaq story played out. Neither of them could really coexist. Their egos got the better of them and they split apart. Jordan and Pippen knew their roles and coexisted to form the best one-two punch the league has ever seen and won 6 championships, etc.

[DaOldLion]

Where was Kobe in Games 5 & 6 of that series?

leading the team in scoring, assist, steals and blocks :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[DaOldLion]

if 29/7/6 and leading the league in 4th quarter scoring for the PO is getting carried

then every player in nba history has been carried as well

[DaOldLion]

I'm reading the latest Phil Jackson book, where he talks about these series, and it's a perfect example of how stats can be misleading. He talks about how the plan of the opposing team was to hack the hell out of Shaq, double and triple teaming him, which allowed for Kobe to go off. Shaq was the complete and absolute focus of the defense. And yes it was nice for them to have a Kobe. And it was nice for Kobe not to be the focus.


you act like Kobe wasn't constantly doubled himself :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

leading the team in scoring, assist, steals and blocks :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
I must've missed that game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200005300LAL.html).


Players who put up numbers like Kobe did during those playoff runs aren't being "carried" sorry to burst your bubble.

Mark Madsen, Robert Horry, Brian Shaw yeah you could say those guys were carried but its definitely an indisputable fact that Kobe was not carried get over it.
:facepalm :facepalm

Keep living in denial.

[Showtime2001]

:facepalm :facepalm

Keep living in denial.
Only one living in denial is you son it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a player who is putting up 29/7/6 in a playoff run isn't being carried.

By all means continue believing that myth.

:lol

[DaOldLion]

I must've missed that game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200005300LAL.html).


:facepalm :facepalm

Keep living in denial.

Hey genius, i was responding to somebody who said game 6

[West-Side]

I must've missed that game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200005300LAL.html).


:facepalm :facepalm

Keep living in denial.

Than why couldn't Shaq win anything with Penny Hardaway, or Jones/Van Axel.
Dumbass.

[Straight_Ballin]

Only one living in denial is you son it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a player who is putting up 29/7/6 in a playoff run isn't being carried.

By all means continue believing that myth.

:lol

He said 29/7/6 is being carried.:lol

All credibility lost.

[HOoopCityJones]

you act like Kobe wasn't constantly doubled himself :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

He drew a quadruple Team for the most memorable moment of Shaq's career.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/673859_o.gif

As you can see , those guys didn't fear Kobe at all just like the haters say. Shaq was the main focus of the Defense 247.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0ce8e4861840205195dfc61762fbaca7/tumblr_mj1prrCg1M1rk0uv7o1_500.gif

[aj1987]

Only one living in denial is you son it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a player who is putting up 29/7/6 in a playoff run isn't being carried.

By all means continue believing that myth.

:lol
It's widely believed that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, kid. You're in the minority. Without Shaq, Kobe would't made it probably to the 2nd round MAX. The title rounds? Shaq averaged something around 35/15/4 on 56% and Kobe averaged 24/6/5 on 43%.


Than why couldn't Shaq win anything with Penny Hardaway, or Jones/Van Axel.
Dumbass.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386073&page=6

It has been a month. What happened to the destruction you promised?


Hey genius, i was responding to somebody who said game 6
My bad.


He said 29/7/6 is being carried.

All credibility lost.
Why you in a Kobe thread. Go back to sucking MJ's dick, ******.

[Straight_Ballin]

It's widely believed that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, kid. You're in the minority. Without Shaq, Kobe would't made it probably to the 2nd round MAX. The title rounds? Shaq averaged something around 35/15/4 on 56% and Kobe averaged 24/6/5 on 43%.



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386073&page=6

It has been a month. What happened to the destruction you promised?


My bad.


Why you in a Kobe thread. Go back to sucking MJ's dick, ******.

Amazing how you are able to even see these posts with your head so far up lebrons ass. Go back to living that sad life of yours stanning a 2/6 colluding beta.

[aj1987]

Amazing how you are able to even see these posts with your head so far up lebrons ass. Go back to living that sad life of yours stanning a 2/6 colluding beta.
Great rebuttal, **********. MJ's juices blinding you from FACTS?

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

I don't know what this arguement is about

But 2001 Kobe is a top 3 Kobe season, Imo. People ignore his defense that year. It was amazing.

Was he better than shaq? No, but who is?

[Hey Yo]

He drew a quadruple Team for the most memorable moment of Shaq's career.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/673859_o.gif
1. There's a big difference between being double teamed and the defense collapsing on the guy (whose already in the lane) driving to the basket.

2. Actually, that pass to Shaq is considered Kobe's most memorable play in his playoff history.

Definitely more memorable than anything he did in the Finals.

[Straight_Ballin]

Great rebuttal, **********. MJ's juices blinding you from FACTS?

Here are the FACTS:

Lebron James colluded twice, plays in the weak east, has never won without Wade, and has a finals record of 2/6. Based on these facts, I am predicting 2/7.

Are you telling me that you are predicting 3/7 despite these facts?

[ImKobe]

1. There's a big difference between being double teamed and the defense collapsing on the guy (whose already in the lane) driving to the basket.

2. Actually, that pass to Shaq is considered Kobe's most memorable play in his playoff history.

Definitely more memorable than anything he did in the Finals.

More people remember his game-tying shot + the GW against the Suns in 06

His Game 4 against Indiana in the 2000 Finals to me is far more memorable to those that actually were old enough to see it, when Shaq fouled out in OT and he just took over on the road to win the game.

You can't really give me any big moments from Shaq in the Finals :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

More people remember his game-tying shot + the GW against the Suns in 06

His Game 4 against Indiana in the 2000 Finals to me is far more memorable to those that actually were old enough to see it, when Shaq fouled out in OT and he just took over on the road to win the game.

You can't really give me any big moments from Shaq in the Finals :confusedshrug:
Kobe scored 4pts after Shaq fouled out. Had a put back and hit 2ft's

[West-Side]

1. There's a big difference between being double teamed and the defense collapsing on the guy (whose already in the lane) driving to the basket.

2. Actually, that pass to Shaq is considered Kobe's most memorable play in his playoff history.

Definitely more memorable than anything he did in the Finals.

:facepalm

[scandisk_]

Shaq and Kobe were better as a duo but Jordan and Pippen were greater as a duo.

BINGO!

peak vs consistency

As always MJ+PIP

[West-Side]

BINGO!

peak vs consistency

As always MJ+PIP

I can agree with that.
Kobe & Shaq's relationship was very rocky, which only highlights the fact that they were a more dominant duo.

They had less support around them and did not see eye to eye; yet were still able to win 3 straight titles.

I think even with the drama surrounding Shaq & Kobe, if they had Pippen & Jordan's teammates from 00' to 06', I don't see them losing a single year.

Prime Horace Grant, Toni Kokuc, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper etc. just shit on anything Kobe & Shaq had outside of Glen Rice. Guys like Fish, Horry, Shaw etc. were capable role players who did their job defensively, and got open looks all game long because of Kobe & Shaq.

Just imagine having Rodman grabbing 15+ boards a night, or Kokuc's outside shooting, or Grant's defense plus jumper.

You essentially add another legit star to the duo. Which is something Jordan & Pippen always had PLUS capable role players who knew their roles (Kerr, Paxton, Longley etc.)

From 00 - 02', you add a prime Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong off the bench.
From 02' - 05', you add in Rodman & Kokuc.

I just don't see how Kobe & Shaq would not win 6 straight titles.
Most will pin point to Malone & Payton, but they were extremely old. Malone got injured during the Pistons series and Payton just disappeared come playoff time. He averaged like 7 PPG on 35% shooting I believe.

[aj1987]

I can agree with that.
Kobe & Shaq's relationship was very rocky, which only highlights the fact that they were a more dominant duo.

They had less support around them and did not see eye to eye; yet were still able to win 3 straight titles.

I think even with the drama surrounding Shaq & Kobe, if they had Pippen & Jordan's teammates from 00' to 06', I don't see them losing a single year.

Prime Horace Grant, Toni Kokuc, Dennis Rodman, Ron Harper etc. just shit on anything Kobe & Shaq had outside of Glen Rice. Guys like Fish, Horry, Shaw etc. were capable role players who did their job defensively, and got open looks all game long because of Kobe & Shaq.

Just imagine having Rodman grabbing 15+ boards a night, or Kokuc's outside shooting, or Grant's defense plus jumper.

You essentially add another legit star to the duo. Which is something Jordan & Pippen always had PLUS capable role players who knew their roles (Kerr, Paxton, Longley etc.)

From 00 - 02', you add a prime Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong off the bench.
From 02' - 05', you add in Rodman & Kokuc.

I just don't see how Kobe & Shaq would not win 6 straight titles.
Most will pin point to Malone & Payton, but they were extremely old. Malone got injured during the Pistons series and Payton just disappeared come playoff time. He averaged like 7 PPG on 35% shooting I believe.

If Kobe and Shaq had their egos in check, they could've won from '00-'04. That's 5 titles. Could've won in '06 as well, if Shaq stayed. They would've ended up with 6 titles at the least and Shaq would've ended up with 4 FMVP's and Kobe with 2. Would've been the GOAT duo (they still kinda are).

[NBAplayoffs2001]

If Kobe and Shaq had their egos in check, they could've won from '00-'04. That's 5 titles. Could've won in '06 as well, if Shaq stayed. They would've ended up with 6 titles at the least and Shaq would've ended up with 4 FMVP's and Kobe with 2. Would've been the GOAT duo (they still kinda are).

I think even if they kept their egos in check, I think the 2003 Spurs were simply a better team than the 2003 Lakers. I do think if ego is in check, they squeeze by in 7 games against the Pistons in 2004. 2006 is their last run.

If somehow they are able to succeed in what I listed above, I say they win of course the three peat (2000, 2001, 2002). I still think they lose in 2003. If any remember to, all the role players were noticeably worse that year and Devean George didn't turn into the player the Lakers were hoping he could become (more consistent etc, he had flashes of potential early in his career... kind of reminded me of a worse version of Ariza on those 2009 Laker team). 2004, Gary Payton was a solid pickup but Karl Malone was the missing piece. If Horace Grant was his 2001 self and healthy in the playoffs after Malone got hurt, I think they win again. This team was so burnt out by the time they got to the NBA finals. Kobe also shot themselves out of a 6-7 game series that could have gone down to the wire. Detroit really couldn't stop Shaq but he wasn't fed the ball that much because of Kobe's ballhogging. I do get how both of them get along now but I'm sure if they both sat together in private, they can agree that the lack of agreeing with each other especially hurt in those 2004 finals where they were pegged as the champions by many pundits before it turned out to be a near sweep by the Pistons. In 2006, I'm not sure they can beat the Mavs if they met them in the playoffs. In terms of 2006 and 2011 championship teams, I felt 2006 had a ton of talent and depth even though the 2011 team was slightly better. The Lakers biggest problem when they had Kobe/Shaq post 2002 was the lack of depth around them. They both had to carry the heavy load and have to drop 50 points combined a night just to have a chance of winning the game. If they somehow build a support cast around them in 2005, maybe they win in 2006. Realistically, I say they still win 4 championships, one more than they did if they were getting along. I would probably still say they are the GOAT duo because at least in my opinion, Scottie and MJ had a lot more solid role players and supporting cast than the Lakers did after 2002. However, Shaq wanted $30 million a year which would have definitely stunted the potential the Lakers could have had in the mid 2000s and that's the time when the Mavs/Suns/Spurs were dominating the West and even if Shaq and Kobe stayed together, I don't think they outshine all three teams even with a slightly improved supporting cast. When Shaq is pretty much done after 2006, Kobe would probably have been stuck with an injured/old Shaq eating up the salary cap and be far from contention once again. They wouldn't win in 2009 and 2010. With this scenario playing out, I also think Kobe's legacy takes a hit because he's on the backburner of Shaq's career and also the backburner of the aging Lakers in the mid 2000s assuming the management doesn't change the team much in order to maintain chemistry.

[HOoopCityJones]

1. There's a big difference between being double teamed and the defense collapsing on the guy (whose already in the lane) driving to the basket.

2. Actually, that pass to Shaq is considered Kobe's most memorable play in his playoff history.

Definitely more memorable than anything he did in the Finals.

Shaq himself said it's the most memorable play of his career you fuccing imbecile. :coleman:

Again, why would I take your spin master bullshit over something right from the man himself?

I swear Kobe stans can be ignorant about Lakers or Kobe's play level expectations , but you Lebron stan ni99as is straight delusional. :wtf:

[Showtime2001]

It's widely believed that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick, kid. You're in the minority. Without Shaq, Kobe would't made it probably to the 2nd round MAX. The title rounds? Shaq averaged something around 35/15/4 on 56% and Kobe averaged 24/6/5 on 43%.

Yes its widely believed by Kobe haters that he was carried I don't disagree with that at all.

You already lost son give it up.

29/7/6 "carried"

:roll:

[aj1987]

Yes its widely believed by Kobe haters that he was carried I don't disagree with that at all.

You already lost son give it up.

29/7/6 "carried"

:roll:
2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG


2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 35/15/4 on 56%
Kobe - 24/6/5 on 44%

+10 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +12 FG%.

Hold this L, little man.

[Thesmallmamba]

Yes its widely believed by Kobe haters that he was carried I don't disagree with that at all.

You already lost son give it up.

29/7/6 "carried"

:roll:

No but 22/5 on 42% from 2000-2002 in the finals is carried compared to Shaqs 36/15 on 58% FG

[aj1987]

No but 22/5 on 42% from 2000-2002 in the finals is carried compared to Shaqs 36/15 on 58% FG
Where did you get those numbers from?

[Straight_Ballin]

Where did you get those numbers from?

The same place where these numbers come from:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg~original :confusedshrug:

[Thesmallmamba]

Where did you get those numbers from?

Here's an insightful post about the subject from current banned user: Dubeta

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385572

[Showtime2001]

2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG


2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 35/15/4 on 56%
Kobe - 24/6/5 on 44%

+10 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +12 FG%.

Hold this L, little man.
29/7/6 son

Just accept the L and move on.

[aj1987]

The same place where these numbers come from:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg~original :confusedshrug:
Dude, LeBron is a millionaire. You don't have to let him stay at no charge.


Here's an insightful post about the subject from current banned user: Dubeta

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385572
Those numbers are wrong. Kobe averaged 24 PPG. Not 22, IIRC.


29/7/6 son

Just accept the L and move on.
I understand that you have a mental disability. I'll post it again.

2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG


2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 35/15/4 on 56%
Kobe - 24/6/5 on 44%

+10 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +12 FG%

It's ok, kid. You were born with the disability. I'll post it again, if you still aren't able to comprehend. :cheers:

[Thesmallmamba]

Dude, LeBron is a millionaire. You don't have to let him stay at no charge.


Those numbers are wrong. Kobe averaged 24 PPG. Not 22, IIRC.


I understand that you have a mental disability. I'll post it again.

2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG


2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 35/15/4 on 56%
Kobe - 24/6/5 on 44%

+10 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +12 FG%

It's ok, kid. You were born with the disability. I'll post it again, if you still aren't able to comprehend. :cheers:

Pretty sure its 22 and 5 for Kobes finals


he averaged 15ppg in 2000

24 in 2001

26 in 2002


That averages out to 22

[Showtime2001]

I understand that you have a mental disability. I'll post it again.

2001 Playoffs average

Shaq 30/15/3 on 56% FG

2002 Playoffs average

Shaq 29/13/3 on 53% FG


2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 35/15/4 on 56%
Kobe - 24/6/5 on 44%

+10 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +12 FG%

It's ok, kid. You were born with the disability. I'll post it again, if you still aren't able to comprehend. :cheers:
29/7/6 = "carried"

This dude talking bout a mental disability self exposed.

:yaohappy:

[aj1987]

29/7/6 = "carried"

This dude talking bout a mental disability self exposed.

:yaohappy:
http://i.imgur.com/BSrvaI4.jpg

[Showtime2001]

http://i.imgur.com/BSrvaI4.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/lgos06epb/9t_ZCa_zps27d735f8.jpg

[aj1987]

http://s9.postimg.org/lgos06epb/9t_ZCa_zps27d735f8.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPRJlbxCQAA_IuX.jpg

[Straight_Ballin]

Only on ISH would someone with low bball IQ claim that 29/7/6 = "carried"

[Thesmallmamba]

Only on ISH would someone with low bball IQ claim that 1-9 = "GOAT"


Agreed. :applause:

[Showtime2001]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPRJlbxCQAA_IuX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlwouP7CAAAaZLz.jpg

[aj1987]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlwouP7CAAAaZLz.jpg
2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 36/15/4 on 59%
Kobe - 22/6/5 on 43%

+14 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +16 FG%

Dat denial doe. :oldlol:

[Straight_Ballin]

Only on ISH would someone with low bball IQ claim that 2/6 = "GOAT"

Can't argue with that. :cheers:

[Showtime2001]

2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 36/15/4 on 59%
Kobe - 22/6/5 on 43%

+14 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +16 FG%

Dat denial doe. :oldlol:
I know right :lol

http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg

[Straight_Ballin]

I know right :lol

http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg

http://media.giphy.com/media/l41lVSySRf15JgBkA/giphy.gif

[aj1987]

I know right :lol

http://s30.postimg.org/iub8nbxqp/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_fc.j pg
Yep.

2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 36/15/4 on 59%
Kobe - 22/6/5 on 43%

+14 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +16 FG%

[Showtime2001]

Yep.

2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 36/15/4 on 59%
Kobe - 22/6/5 on 43%

+14 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +16 FG%
2001 Playoffs + Finals
Kobe 29/7/6

Not "carried"

[Thesmallmamba]

Yep.

2000-2002 Finals:

Shaq - 36/15/4 on 59%
Kobe - 22/6/5 on 43%

+14 PPG, +9 RPG, -1 APG, +16 FG%


:lebronamazed:



And Gasol was also better than Kobe in 2009-2010 as well


Kobe has never been the best player on a championship team

:biggums:

[aj1987]

2001 Playoffs + Finals
Kobe 29/7/6

Not "carried"
Shaq - 33/16/5/3 on 57%
Kobe - 25/8/6/1 on 42%

[RRR3]

Shaq - 33/16/5/3 on 57%
Kobe - 25/8/6/1 on 42%
http://i.imgur.com/4Z9C9hP.jpg