Kobe without Shaq vs Lebron without Wade vs Jordan without Pippen

[kennethgriffin]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/sxumnzssdwq462h5iqzk.jpg



When healthy enough to compete in the playoffs:



Jordan without Pippen

1984-85 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 23ppg ) lost 1st round 1-3
1985-86 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 21ppg ) Swept 1st round
1986-87 - Jordan had future Allstar Charles Oakley ( 15.0ppg ) Swept 1st round
2001-02 - Jordan had future Allstar richard hamilton ( 20.0ppg ) missed playoffs
2002-03 - Jordan had Allstar Jerry Stackhouse ( 22ppg ) missed playoffs


Lebron without Wade

2003-04 - Lebron had future Allstar Carlos Boozer ( 16ppg ) missed playoffs
2004-05 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 17ppg ) missed playoffs
2005-06 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2006-07 - Lebron had former 20ppg Larry Hughes ( 15ppg ) lost finals
2007-08 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 14ppg ) lost 2nd round
2008-09 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 18ppg ) lost 3rd round
2009-10 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2014-15 - Lebron had Timofy Mozgov ( 14ppg finals ) lost finals



Kobe without Shaq


2005-06 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 15ppg ) lost first round
2006-07 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 16ppg ) lost first round
2007-08 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) lost in finals
2008-09 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Won Championship
2009-10 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 18ppg ) Won Championship
2010-11 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Lost 2nd round
2011-12 - Kobe had Andrew Bynum ( 19ppg ) lost 2nd round





i see allot of people on here saying "what about kobe without gasol"


well then we're defeating the point. cause if lebron won with ilgauskas.. then we can say "without wade and big z?" or if jordan won with woolridge.. then its "without pippen or woolridge" and so on ...

thats dumb.


each guy with a barely adequate 2nd man ... thats what we're looking at


wade/pippen/shaq are all legends... all these other guys mentioned are not

and its obvious who can get the job done without needing that legendary 2nd man

[Thesmallmamba]

It should be without their 2 best players

Kobe without Shaq/Gasol

LeBron without Wade/Bosh

Jordan without Pippen/Rodman

[kennethgriffin]

It should be without their 2 best players

Kobe without Shaq/Gasol

LeBron without Wade/Bosh

Jordan without Pippen/Rodman


but then if lebron wins next year his next best player will be whoever his 2nd man is

that guy will instantly pass bosh

then lebrons still ringless without his "2 best other guys"


:lol

youre just creating an agenda driven exclusion that favors your choking hero

[Thesmallmamba]

LOL why did you copy my avi btw??


Where you so shook by my avi, that it forced you to change the avi you've been using for the past 5 years, just to copy my avi within 2 minutes of seeing it



Do I scare you so much, that I caused you to completely change your avi of 5 years within 2 minutes

:lol

[SouBeachTalents]

but then if lebron wins next year his next best player will be whoever his 2nd man is

that guy will instantly pass bosh

then lebrons still ringless without his "2 best other guys"


:lol

youre just creating an agenda driven exclusion that favors your choking hero

Dat irony :lol

[Thesmallmamba]

youre just creating an agenda driven exclusion that favors your choking hero


Hows that different from your agenda of "All time rankings are based on amount of Rings by MVP winners, but they also have to win at least 1 FMVP, but they also only count 50% of a ring if won before 1980, but we also have to look at all-nba teams, but we also have to look at all-defensive teams, but lockout seasons dont count, but Kobe >> Duncan because ppg >> everything"





Your arguments have gotten repetitive and lame :lol

[kennethgriffin]

LOL why did you copy my avi btw??


Where you so shook by my avi, that it forced you to change the avi you've been using for the past 5 years, just to copy my avi within 2 minutes of seeing it



Do I scare you so much, that I caused you to completely change your avi of 5 years within 2 minutes

:lol


because its a handsome man and i'm just helping you promote it

[kennethgriffin]

Hows that different from your agenda of "All time rankings are based on amount of Rings by MVP winners, but they also have to win at least 1 FMVP, but they also only count 50% of a ring if won before 1980, but we also have to look at all-nba teams, but we also have to look at all-defensive teams, but lockout seasons dont count, but Kobe >> Duncan because ppg >> everything"





Your arguments have gotten repetitive and lame :lol


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aJmLKq4Q--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_north,h_358,q_80,w_636/18kx9t3on9n28jpg.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

the avi you've been using for the past 5 years[/U]

:lol



wait a minute. i thought you were new to this forum. how would you know what my avatar was for the last 5 years


http://blogs.thenews.com.pk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/confused_l.jpg

[Thesmallmamba]

wait a minute. i thought you were new to this forum. how would you know what my avatar was for the last 5 years


http://blogs.thenews.com.pk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/confused_l.jpg

Considering LeBrons living so rent-free in your head, that you discuss him far more than Kobe, I'd assume most of your posting career (since 2009) would be an avi of him :confusedshrug:


Its not rocket science, we don't need tons of research to know you're a loser

[kennethgriffin]

Considering LeBrons living so rent-free in your head, that you discuss him far more than Kobe, I'd assume most of your posting career (since 2009) would be an avi of him :confusedshrug:


Its not rocket science, we don't need tons of research to know you're a loser




you sound allot like this dubeta character



hes a 15 year old virgin that spends his entire day on ISH logging in and out of 10 different alt accounts in order to have conversations with himself

the dudes so pathetic that he needs to create a new identity every other month to use as his dominant handle. its the only way he can feel important.

he hides every year after lebron loses in the finals ... we dont see him for about a month. then he comes back thinking everyones forgotten that lebrons 2 for 5 or 2 for 6

i'm sure itel happen again when he goes 2 for 7

[Thesmallmamba]

#meltdown

#gotem

:lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

#meltdown

#gotem

:lol :lol


alt backfire

#exposed

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Hows that different from your agenda of "All time rankings are based on amount of Rings by MVP winners, but they also have to win at least 1 FMVP, but they also only count 50% of a ring if won before 1980, but we also have to look at all-nba teams, but we also have to look at all-defensive teams, but lockout seasons dont count, but Kobe >> Duncan because ppg >> everything"





Your arguments have gotten repetitive and lame :lol

:oldlol:

[NZStreetBaller]

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aJmLKq4Q--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_north,h_358,q_80,w_636/18kx9t3on9n28jpg.jpg

U see that big long red concrete pump on the side there. Thats what im doing for work these days. Just thought it was cool seeing one of those on ish lol.

[Hittin_Shots]

U see that big long red concrete pump on the side there. Thats what im doing for work these days. Just thought it was cool seeing one of those on ish lol.

How the **** does a large red pipe operate a keyboard?

[KG215]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/sxumnzssdwq462h5iqzk.jpg



When healthy enough to compete in the playoffs:



Jordan without Pippen

1984-85 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 23ppg ) lost 1st round 1-3
1985-86 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 21ppg ) Swept 1st round
1986-87 - Jordan had future Allstar Charles Oakley ( 15.0ppg ) Swept 1st round
2001-02 - Jordan had future Allstar richard hamilton ( 20.0ppg ) missed playoffs
2002-03 - Jordan had Allstar Jerry Stackhouse ( 22ppg ) missed playoffs


Lebron without Wade

2003-04 - Lebron had future Allstar Carlos Boozer ( 16ppg ) missed playoffs
2004-05 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 17ppg ) missed playoffs
2005-06 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2006-07 - Lebron had former 20ppg Larry Hughes ( 15ppg ) lost finals
2007-08 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 14ppg ) lost 2nd round
2008-09 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 18ppg ) lost 3rd round
2009-10 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2014-15 - Lebron had Timofy Mozgov ( 14ppg finals ) lost finals



Kobe without Shaq


2005-06 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 15ppg ) lost first round
2006-07 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 16ppg ) lost first round
2007-08 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) lost in finals
2008-09 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Won Championship
2009-10 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 18ppg ) Won Championship
2010-11 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Lost 2nd round
2011-12 - Kobe had Andrew Bynum ( 19ppg ) lost 2nd round





i see allot of people on here saying "what about kobe without gasol"


well then we're defeating the point. cause if lebron won with ilgauskas.. then we can say "without wade and big z?" or if jordan won with woolridge.. then its "without pippen or woolridge" and so on ...

thats dumb.


each guy with a barely adequate 2nd man ... thats what we're looking at


wade/pippen/shaq are all legends... all these other guys mentioned are not

and its obvious who can get the job done without needing that legendary 2nd man
:roll:


I think you've finally convinced me that the only stat that exists and the only stat that matters in basketball is points. It must be true because that's the only stat you ever use to make your arguments.

[ShawkFactory]

It's settled then. Kobe > Jordan

[kennethgriffin]

Its amazing how silent the trolls get when i post facts

[ShawkFactory]

Its amazing how silent the trolls get when i post facts
:kobe:

[warriorfan]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/sxumnzssdwq462h5iqzk.jpg



When healthy enough to compete in the playoffs:



Jordan without Pippen

1984-85 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 23ppg ) lost 1st round 1-3
1985-86 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 21ppg ) Swept 1st round
1986-87 - Jordan had future Allstar Charles Oakley ( 15.0ppg ) Swept 1st round
2001-02 - Jordan had future Allstar richard hamilton ( 20.0ppg ) missed playoffs
2002-03 - Jordan had Allstar Jerry Stackhouse ( 22ppg ) missed playoffs


Lebron without Wade

2003-04 - Lebron had future Allstar Carlos Boozer ( 16ppg ) missed playoffs
2004-05 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 17ppg ) missed playoffs
2005-06 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2006-07 - Lebron had former 20ppg Larry Hughes ( 15ppg ) lost finals
2007-08 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 14ppg ) lost 2nd round
2008-09 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 18ppg ) lost 3rd round
2009-10 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2014-15 - Lebron had Timofy Mozgov ( 14ppg finals ) lost finals



Kobe without Shaq


2005-06 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 15ppg ) lost first round
2006-07 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 16ppg ) lost first round
2007-08 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) lost in finals
2008-09 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Won Championship
2009-10 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 18ppg ) Won Championship
2010-11 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Lost 2nd round
2011-12 - Kobe had Andrew Bynum ( 19ppg ) lost 2nd round





i see allot of people on here saying "what about kobe without gasol"


well then we're defeating the point. cause if lebron won with ilgauskas.. then we can say "without wade and big z?" or if jordan won with woolridge.. then its "without pippen or woolridge" and so on ...

thats dumb.


each guy with a barely adequate 2nd man ... thats what we're looking at


wade/pippen/shaq are all legends... all these other guys mentioned are not

and its obvious who can get the job done without needing that legendary 2nd man

Curry scored 28 points a game and won the championship with zero HoF teammates.

[JT123]

Curry scored 28 points a game and won the championship with zero HoF teammates.
Klay Thompson is going to be in the Hall of Fame bruh
And Steve Kerr is a HOF coach

[Smoke117]

:roll:


I think you've finally convinced me that the only stat that exists and the only stat that matters in basketball is points. It must be true because that's the only stat you ever use to make your arguments.

I've been saying this forever...he doesn't know one god damn thing about basketball. He doesn't even know anything about the player he obsesses about, even.

hey kenneth, why is kobe such a great scorer?

"he averaged 35ppg for a season."

hey kenneth, why was kobe such a great defensive player?

"he was first team all defensive team 9 times"

Those are the kind answers the little retard gives.

[SouBeachTalents]

Curry scored 28 points a game and won the championship with zero Finals MVP votes

:applause:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Why do you have to take Jordan in this comparison? Neither Kobe nor Lebron is near as good as MJ, and its beyond doubt.

[warriorfan]

Klay Thompson is going to be in the Hall of Fame bruh
And Steve Kerr is a HOF coach

Klay Thompson is not going to be in the Hall of Fame and he scored 15 ppg. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobes the only guy to legitimately back up his rings with a legendary teammate


Multiple titles with... multiple titles without


Nobody else can say the same

[Dr Hawk]

Pau is a legendary player

[kennethgriffin]

Pau is a legendary player


You have a loosely based definition of legend


To me its top 50


Paus around 85-90

[HOoopCityJones]

Pau is a legendary player

I love Pau , but this shit is laughable.

[BoutPractice]

Gasol is a true legend, maybe not top 50 although it's arguable.

But that's beside the point. Whatever he is, he was on a whole other level than Orlando Woolridge and Zydrunas Ilgauskas...

[kennethgriffin]

Gasol is a true legend, maybe not top 50 although it's arguable.

But that's beside the point. Whatever he is, he was on a whole other level than Orlando Woolridge and Zydrunas Ilgauskas...


Theres not that many nba legends



He might be a legend in spain i guess


Hes a euro basket tourny legend.. but nba?

[HOoopCityJones]

Gasol is a true legend, maybe not top 50 although it's arguable.

But that's beside the point. Whatever he is, he was on a whole other level than Orlando Woolridge and Zydrunas Ilgauskas...

If Pau is a Legend , then what is someone like Bosh? On their own respective Teams they were about the same, Bosh probably had better numbers.

[kennethgriffin]

If Pau is a Legend , then what is someone like Bosh? On their own respective Teams they were about the same, Bosh probably had better numbers.


Bosh has twice as many allstar appearences with the same number of titles.. around the same career average

[Hey Yo]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/sxumnzssdwq462h5iqzk.jpg



When healthy enough to compete in the playoffs:



Jordan without Pippen

1984-85 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 23ppg ) lost 1st round 1-3
1985-86 - Jordan had Orlando Woolridge ( 21ppg ) Swept 1st round
1986-87 - Jordan had future Allstar Charles Oakley ( 15.0ppg ) Swept 1st round
2001-02 - Jordan had future Allstar richard hamilton ( 20.0ppg ) missed playoffs
2002-03 - Jordan had Allstar Jerry Stackhouse ( 22ppg ) missed playoffs


Lebron without Wade

2003-04 - Lebron had future Allstar Carlos Boozer ( 16ppg ) missed playoffs
2004-05 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 17ppg ) missed playoffs
2005-06 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2006-07 - Lebron had former 20ppg Larry Hughes ( 15ppg ) lost finals
2007-08 - Lebron had Allstar Zydrunas Ilgauskas ( 14ppg ) lost 2nd round
2008-09 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 18ppg ) lost 3rd round
2009-10 - Lebron had Allstar Mo Williams ( 16ppg ) lost 2nd round
2014-15 - Lebron had Timofy Mozgov ( 14ppg finals ) lost finals



Kobe without Shaq


2005-06 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 15ppg ) lost first round
2006-07 - Kobe had Lamar Odom ( 16ppg ) lost first round
2007-08 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) lost in finals
2008-09 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Won Championship
2009-10 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 18ppg ) Won Championship
2010-11 - Kobe had Allstar Pau Gasol ( 19ppg ) Lost 2nd round
2011-12 - Kobe had Andrew Bynum ( 19ppg ) lost 2nd round





i see allot of people on here saying "what about kobe without gasol"


well then we're defeating the point. cause if lebron won with ilgauskas.. then we can say "without wade and big z?" or if jordan won with woolridge.. then its "without pippen or woolridge" and so on ...

thats dumb.


each guy with a barely adequate 2nd man ... thats what we're looking at


wade/pippen/shaq are all legends... all these other guys mentioned are not

and its obvious who can get the job done without needing that legendary 2nd man

Kobe also had Ron Artest.
NBA All-Star (2004)
All-NBA Third Team (2004)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2004)
2

[DaOldLion]

^^^^

did you even read what he said?

Because what you're claiming he said, is the exact opposite of what he actually said

:biggums: :biggums:

nvm he deleted the post

[DaOldLion]

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Kobe also had Ron Artest.
NBA All-Star (2004)
All-NBA Third Team (2004)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2004)
2

[Smoke117]

Whatever these Kobe stans want to say...Pau had one of the biggest impacts in the league during those championship years. There's a reason why in 09 and 10 that he is the leader in win shares. You aren't going to find any other team where the guy who is considered the 2nd best player has more win shares than the guy considered the best. (but you'll also not find any other team where the guy considered the best is as overrated as kobe)

[Lebron23]

Pau Gasol in the 2010 NBA Finals > Kawhi Leonard, and Iggy in the NBA Finals.

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Kobe also had Ron Artest.
NBA All-Star (2004)
All-NBA Third Team (2004)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2004)
2

[kennethgriffin]

Pau Gasol in the 2010 NBA Finals > Kawhi Leonard, and Iggy in the NBA Finals.


i dont see how that could be true. considering they were given the award for putting up gasol type scoring numbers while also shutting down the other teams best player


gasol wasnt a defensive stopper shutting down the leagues "best player" according to critics


which is why kawhi and iggy were awarded the finals mvp over top of their teams established superstars

[Hey Yo]

oh please


that guy was a shell of his former self. and his former self was basically a one hit wonder in 2004

thats like me listing shaq for lebrons help
Yet you use Boozer who wasn't an all-star with Cleveland and only played 1yr with James.

Hughes was in a contract year when Cavs signed him. Broke his finger in January and never recovered his shooting touch. His game went straight down hill and for every team he played with after that.

Z was a shell of his former self in 2007.

Mo Williams was a last minute replacement in the all-star game (he was closest player to the arena and could get there on time)

[Dr Hawk]

You have a loosely based definition of legend


To me its top 50


Paus around 85-90

85 players better than Pau? Nah

He is Top 50

[Dr Hawk]

I love Pau , but this shit is laughable.

Is it?

2x NBA Champion
5

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=Dr Hawk]Is it?

2x NBA Champion
5

[kennethgriffin]

i have trouble saying a guy is an NBA legend when hes 0-16 as his teams leader in the playoffs

[ShaqTwizzle]

i have trouble saying a guy is an NBA legend when hes 0-16 as his teams leader in the playoffs

Not everyone can start their career sidekicking for Peak Shaq.

When Kobe was on shitty teams (05-07) he did not achieve significantly more then a young Gasol did.
*Missed the playoffs
*Bounced out of the 1st round against Nash + roleplayers (no Amare)
*Bounced out in 5 by Phoenix

Put Kobe against the incredibly strong teams Gasol faced and he is not going to do significantly better.
I mean the 04 Peak Duncan led Spurs
The 05 ultra stacked Suns (the far, far weaker 06 version took Kobe out).
The 06 Finalist Mavericks.

So yeah that argument is just factually stupid and you should stop trolling with it.

Last year Grandpa Gasol was the best player on a Bulls team that made the 2nd round and had he not gotten injured I do believe they would have made the CFinals and quite possibly even the Finals.

[kennethgriffin]

Not everyone can start their career sidekicking for Peak Shaq.

When Kobe was on shitty teams (05-07) he did not achieve significantly more then a young Gasol did.
*Missed the playoffs
*Bounced out of the 1st round against Nash + roleplayers (no Amare)
*Bounced out in 5 by Phoenix

Put Kobe against the incredibly strong teams Gasol faced and he is not going to do significantly better.
I mean the 04 Peak Duncan led Spurs
The 05 ultra stacked Suns (the far, far weaker 06 version took Kobe out).
The 06 Finalist Mavericks.

So yeah that argument is just factually stupid and you should stop trolling with it.

Last year Grandpa Gasol was the best player on a Bulls team that made the 2nd round and had he not gotten injured I do believe they would have made the CFinals and quite possibly even the Finals.


stopped reading right there..


you gotta be some kinda f*cking asshole to use shaq as an excuse why kobes record as leader is solid


kobe didnt start leading the lakers till 2003 you f*cking tool



and if youre refering to before that in any way..

a) why? i said AS LEADER

b) even if we're counting before then.. kobe absolutely dominated and took over tons of games on his own..

some of them with shaq on the bench fouled out or benched cause of hackashaq


does gasol have any series in which he averaged 35ppg+? like kobe in 2001? 33ppg through the 1st 3 rounds??

[ShaqTwizzle]

a) why? i said AS LEADER


Ok well.
Wade in 2012 & 2013 certainly did not perform better in the playoffs then Gasol did in 2009 & 2010.

So that alone disturbs the basis of your argument as if Wade was a better performing 2nd option when infact outside of 2011 he was not.


does gasol have any series

Perhaps not and I freely admit that Kobe in 2001 performed at a higher level then Gasol ever has.

On the other hand though Gasol in 2009 & 2010 together easily had better playoff runs then Kobe had in 00 & 02 together.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ok well.
Wade in 2012 & 2013 certainly did not perform better in the playoffs then Gasol did in 2009 & 2010.

So that alone disturbs the basis of your argument as if Wade was a better performing 2nd option when infact outside of 2011 he was not.



Perhaps not and I freely admit that Kobe in 2001 performed at a higher level then Gasol ever has.

On the other hand though Gasol in 2009 & 2010 together easily had better playoff runs then Kobe had in 00 & 02 together.

'09 & '10 Gasol > '13 Wade, especially factoring in the playoffs, but '12 Wade is definitely close

[HOoopCityJones]

'09 & '10 Gasol > '13 Wade, especially factoring in the playoffs, but '12 Wade is definitely close

:biggums:

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=Dr Hawk]Is it?

2x NBA Champion
5

[GrapeApe]

'09 & '10 Gasol > '13 Wade, especially factoring in the playoffs, but '12 Wade is definitely close

Yeah, for some reason Wade's 2012 season has become insanely underrated (cough, Lebron stans, cough, cough). He had a top 3 PER in the regular season and save for the knee swelling game averaged 24/5/5/1.8/1.3 on 48% in the playoffs. It was definitely on par with Gasol's championships seasons, probably better than Pau's 2009 and equal to Pau's 2010.

I don't understand the argument and semantics regarding who was or who wasn't a "legend" or "superstar", blah blah. Who gives a shit. What does any of that have to do with how the player actually performed? It's completely irrelevant. Being a "legend" is meaningless if that player plays mediocre (Wade for much of the 2013 playoffs). Pau played like a legend for much of his championships runs. Actual performance is what matters, not some subjective and arbitrary all-time status.

[SouBeachTalents]

:biggums:

I'd love to hear an argument for '13 Wade over '09/'10 Gasol

[GrapeApe]

:biggums:

I think what he said is a fair assessment. 2012 Wade may have been better than 2009 Pau, but I think Pau was as good in 2010. In terms of 2013, Wade was great during the regular season but was injured and underperformed for much of the playoffs. He stepped up in the finals but overall I think Pau was better in both 2009 and 2010.

2012 Wade > 2009 Pau
2012 Wade = 2010 Pau
2013 Wade < 2009 and 2010 Pau

I think that's pretty accurate, no?

[kennethgriffin]

even if wade gets 15 points and gasol gets 18

wade is making twice the impact on the game. because hes 4 times the player all time


a top 20 player all time vs a top 90 player all time


one guys getting the type of attention from a defense that the other guy probably never saw in his entire life. even on that top 20 players OFF nights



put kobe out there as a decoy ... dude will open up others without even getting his name in the box score.

you can put him on the other side and he completely changes the way the game is played




people look at gasols numbers and dont even realize that theyre half due to kobe drawing his defender


not just for gasols points. but for his assists aswell


give kobe dwyane wade from 2008 till 2014... kobe wins more than 2 titles. and probly doesnt rip his achilles in half carrying a team on his back cause other guys arent performing

[kennethgriffin]

:bowdown:

Pau Gasol has had one of the greatest basketball careers ever. He would make the HOF just based on his legendary international exploits, even if he hadn't played a minute in the NBA.


no he doesnt

:oldlol:


"one of" meaning one of like 80 guys?


i dont see how europian medals against dudes we've never heard of put him ahead of anyone in nba history he has a lesser career than

[DonDadda59]

no he doesnt

:oldlol:


"one of" meaning one of like 80 guys?


i dont see how europian medals against dudes we've never heard of put him ahead of anyone in nba history he has a lesser career than

I said BASKETBALL careers, not just NBA. Learn to read.

Name a player with a better combination of International and NBA success Historically. Not even guys like Dirk or Petrovic measure up.

Like I said before, Pau would've been a first ballot HOFer even if he hadn't played a minute in the NBA. But winning ROY, making multiple all stars, all NBA teams, winning multiple rings, and being one of the absolute most skilled players in the league also makes him a first ballot HOFer just based on his work in the Association alone too.

[kennethgriffin]

I said BASKETBALL careers, not just NBA. Learn to read.

Name a player with a better combination of International and NBA success Historically. Not even guys like Dirk or Petrovic measure up.

Like I said before, Pau would've been a first ballot HOFer even if he hadn't played a minute in the NBA. But winning ROY, making multiple all stars, all NBA teams, winning multiple rings, and being one of the absolute most skilled players in the league also makes him a first ballot HOFer just based on his work in the Association alone too.



Pau could win 100 euro basket medals vs julio sanjuan carlos and the neck bearded midgets none of us ever heard of..... i dont consider it a real accomplishment

[DonDadda59]

Pau could win 100 euro basket medals vs julio django and the neck bearded midgets none of us ever heard of..... i dont consider it a real accomplishment

Dude just won the Eurobasket MVP CLOWNING (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlFzYF73F3A) the likes of Rudy Gobert (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JCUa4lmB30) who was 5th in DPOY this past season. He also led 2 teams to Silver Medals in the Olympics, nearly beating the U.S. team featuring Kobe, Bron, Wade, etc all in or near their primes.

The man is a legendary International basketball player. Multiple MVP, champion, Olympic medalist, etc and so on.

But if you can name a player with a better combination of International and NBA success... go right ahead.

[DaOldLion]

:bowdown:

Pau Gasol has had one of the greatest basketball careers ever. He would make the HOF just based on his legendary international exploits, even if he hadn't played a minute in the NBA.

Oh and let me guess.. Pippen was some scrub huh? :oldlol:

Jordan had the best perimiter defender and all first team nba defensive player Scottie Pippen by his side his entire career.. and you morons try to act like he was some scrub :facepalm

[DonDadda59]

Oh and let me guess.. Pippen was some scrub huh? :oldlol:

Jordan had the best perimiter defender and all first team nba defensive player Scottie Pippen by his side his entire career.. and you morons try to act like he was some scrub :facepalm

Who the hell are you and what the f*ck are you talking about? :oldlol:

[DaOldLion]

Who the hell are you and what the f*ck are you talking about? :oldlol:

If Gasol had "one of the best basketball careers ever" then what is Pippen with his multiple all defensive teams (Gasol hasn't made one :oldlol: ) while having twice the amount of all nba team selections as Gasol.. multiple times making the second round without Jordan,, including a WCF run


:oldlol:

Pippen is easily better than Pau

Pippen = 10x all defense and 7x all nba..


Care to post Pau's........

[DonDadda59]

If Gasol had "one of the best basketball careers ever" then what is Pippen with his multiple all defensive teams (Gasol hasn't made one :oldlol: ) while having twice the amount of all nba team selections as Gasol.. multiple times making the second round without Jordan,, including a WCF run


:oldlol:

Pippen is easily better than Pau

Pippen = 10x all defense and 7x all nba..


Care to post Pau's........

I didn't even mention Pip once in this thread but OK.

Name a single MVP or any significant award Pippen won during his playing career.

[DaOldLion]

I didn't even mention Pip once in this thread but OK.

Name a single MVP or any significant award Pippen won during his playing career.

so you're avoding the question I proposed and creating your own

nice :oldlol: :oldlol:

Pippen = 17x all nba team selection

Pau = 4x all nba team selection

[DonDadda59]

so you're avoding the question I proposed and creating your own

nice :oldlol: :oldlol:

Pippen = 17x all nba team selection

Pau = 4x all nba team selection

Pippen's greatest accomplishment as the #1 option on a team = taking a 3-peat champion to the 2nd round. That's it. 17 years in the league, only once the best player on a team.

Pau accomplished that on the Bulls at age 34 while leading the league in double-doubles.

For the record, Pau has won 10 MVPs/Player of the year awards (should also have a Finals MVP on his mantle).

[SouBeachTalents]

even if wade gets 15 points and gasol gets 18

wade is making twice the impact on the game. because hes 4 times the player all time


a top 20 player all time vs a top 90 player all time


one guys getting the type of attention from a defense that the other guy probably never saw in his entire life. even on that top 20 players OFF nights



put kobe out there as a decoy ... dude will open up others without even getting his name in the box score.

you can put him on the other side and he completely changes the way the game is played




people look at gasols numbers and dont even realize that theyre half due to kobe drawing his defender


not just for gasols points. but for his assists aswell


give kobe dwyane wade from 2008 till 2014... kobe wins more than 2 titles. and probly doesnt rip his achilles in half carrying a team on his back cause other guys arent performing

So is '88/'89 Kareem 10x the player '09/'10 Gasol is?

[IllegalD]

Pippen's greatest accomplishment as the #1 option on a team = taking a 3-peat champion to the 2nd round. That's it. 17 years in the league, only once the best player on a team.

Pau accomplished that on the Bulls at age 34 while leading the league in double-doubles.

For the record, Pau has won 10 MVPs/Player of the year awards (should also have a Finals MVP on his mantle).

Jimmy Butler was the Bulls' best player last season, not Pau.

Also LOL Leastern Conference.

How many playoff games did Pau win in his prime when he was the go to guy in the Western Conference?

You must be a Jordan Stan.

[3ball]

When Jordan finally got just 1 all-star teammate, he went 6/6.. Otoh, Lebron missed the playoffs with Zydrunas, and only went 2/4 with Wade/Bosh.

Also - guys like Kobe and Lebron LOST with their all-star teammates.. Kobe lost in playoffs with Shaq several times... Lebron lost with Wade/Bosh several times.. MJ never lost in playoffs with all-star Pippen.

All players need a some help to win a championship - MJ just needed the least - he 3-peated with just HOF Pippen...... and HOF Pippen < HOF's Kareem/Worthy... HOF's McHale/Parish/DJ... HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen.... HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi.... HOF Shaq... MJ simply had the least help of Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan, or Kobe... It's not even close.
.

[DonDadda59]

Jimmy Butler was the Bulls' best player last season, not Pau.

Except for the fact he wasn't.


Also LOL Leastern Conference.

Pau was the only non Cavs Player in the East who made an All NBA team last season. :applause:


How many playoff games did Pau win in his prime when he was the go to guy in the Western Conference?

He was at least the best player on his own team and by all advanced metrics, the best player on the Lakers during one of their championship runs.


You must be a Jordan Stan.

Boss of the Jordan Family. :pimp:

[DaOldLion]

Pippen's greatest accomplishment as the #1 option on a team = taking a 3-peat champion to the 2nd round. That's it. 17 years in the league, only once the best player on a team.

Pau accomplished that on the Bulls at age 34 while leading the league in double-doubles.

For the record, Pau has won 10 MVPs/Player of the year awards (should also have a Finals MVP on his mantle).

So again you avoid that Pippen = 17x all nba player and Pau = 4x nba player

and who ****ing cares about overseas accomplishments.. :oldlol:

I guess we should begin propping up V Spans & Sonny Weems MVP's too :oldlol:


Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting with more votes than Shaq and was 4th in DPOY that same year (94 without Jordan).. Pau could only dream of that..


what a joke this is honestly..

[SouBeachTalents]

MJ never lost in playoffs with all-star Pippen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYDBO3G_gBE


MJ just needed the least - he 3-peated with just HOF Pippen

http://www.athletepromotions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Dennis-Rodman-Appearance.jpg

[RRR3]

So again you avoid that Pippen = 17x all nba player and Pau = 4x nba player

and who ****ing cares about overseas accomplishments.. :oldlol:

I guess we should begin propping up V Spans & Sonny Weems MVP's too :oldlol:


Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting with more votes than Shaq and was 4th in DPOY that same year (94 without Jordan).. Pau could only dream of that..


what a joke this is honestly..
:biggums:
Pass the crack pipe, bro.

[IllegalD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYDBO3G_gBE



http://www.athletepromotions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Dennis-Rodman-Appearance.jpg

First 3peat? :confusedshrug:

Or you still holding out hope for that Horrace Grant HOF induction... :lol

[DonDadda59]

and who ****ing cares about overseas accomplishments.. :oldlol:
Basketball fans and the International Basketball Hall of Fame :confusedshrug:


Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting with more votes than Shaq and was 4th in DPOY that same year (94 without Jordan).. Pau could only dream of that..

And he took a 3X defending champion to the second round, having the absolute worst meltdown in NBA History.

Again, Pau at 35 got the Bulls this past season as far as Pip did his one season as lead dog of a team.


what a joke this is honestly..

:lol

You're the one who came out of left field with this bullshit when I was having a completely unrelated conversation with someone else. I really have no clue who you are.

[RRR3]

Basketball fans and the International Basketball Hall of Fame :confusedshrug:

I guess we should begin propping up V Spans & Sonny Weems MVP's too :oldlol:




And he took a 3X defending champion to the second round, having the absolute worst meltdown in NBA History.

Again, Pau at 35 got the Bulls this past season as far as Pip did his one season as lead dog of a team.



:lol

You're the one who came out of left field with this bullshit when I was having a completely unrelated conversation with someone else. I really have no clue who you are.
Kobe kid alt obviously

[3ball]

Even the 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) lists MJ's 1991 supporting cast as worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with...

So MJ won with less than they ever did.. And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with.. :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

So is '88/'89 Kareem 10x the player '09/'10 Gasol is?


Did 89-90,90-91 kareem average 20+ppg like wade?


How the **** is that the same thing lol

[DonDadda59]

http://www.athletepromotions.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Dennis-Rodman-Appearance.jpg

:lol

Give us a rundown of Rodman's production in the playoffs and finals during the Bulls' second 3-peat.

LeBron got just as much out of Ben Wallace (who was the same age when he joined the Cavs as Rodman was when he joined the Bulls) during the '08 playoffs as Jordan got out of Dennis in '97.

Dudes just see a name and make assumptions based on reputation. It'll be hilarious when some ignorant kid years from now tells you how lucky Bron was to play with Shaq. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Even the 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) lists MJ's 1991 supporting cast as worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with...

So MJ won with less than they ever did.. And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with.. :confusedshrug:

Jordan's '91 >>> Duncan's '03

[kennethgriffin]

Even the 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) lists MJ's 1991 supporting cast as worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with...

So MJ won with less than they ever did.. And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with.. :confusedshrug:


Advanced stats are dumb as **** tho


No way jordan ever won with less than kobe in 2009


Which stat nerds think was a great team all around lmao

[3ball]

Jordan's '91 >>> Duncan's '03
You're looking at 1993, not 1991 - put your bifocals on and read the list again.

The 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) say MJ's 1991 cast was worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with... So MJ won with less than they ever did.

And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with..

[DonDadda59]

Advanced stats are dumb as **** tho


No way jordan ever won with less than kobe in 2009


Which stat nerds think was a great team all around lmao

'97 + '98 Easily.

EASILY.

[kennethgriffin]

'97 + '98 Easily.

EASILY.



ummm no

[3ball]

Dudes just see a name and make assumptions based on reputation. It'll be hilarious when some ignorant kid years from now tells you how lucky Bron was to play with Shaq. :lol


:applause:

These guys weren't there at the time, so they make up claims after the fact... And if erroneous, they just shrug their shoulders and rewrite history.

In 10 years, some Lebron-hater will say that Cleveland-Shaq was a super force... That being said, Shaq did provide 12/7 with 1.5 blocks in 2010 - that isn't shit, but I value that much more than Cartwright's 12/7 with 0.5 blocks in 1989.

I guess that type of superior supporting cast is why Lebron's stats in 2010 yielded 62 wins, while MJ's equal stats in 1989 yielded only 47 wins (obviously, MJ's superior comp played a factor in addition to his weaker cast).

[kennethgriffin]

Scottie Pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau Gasol
Dennis Rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lamar odom
Toni Kukoc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rookie Ariza
steve kerr >>>>>> shannon brown
luc longley > 6ppg bynum
Ron Harper >>>> derek Fisher
jason caffey > radmanovic
randy brown > jordan farmar
robert parish >>>>>> dj mbenga
bison dele >>>>> luke walton
jud buechler >>>>>> adam morrison
dickey simpkins >> sasha




seriously wtf are people on ISH smoking these days...

[kennethgriffin]

:lol

Give us a rundown of Rodman's production in the playoffs and finals during the Bulls' second 3-peat.

LeBron got just as much out of Ben Wallace (who was the same age when he joined the Cavs as Rodman was when he joined the Bulls) during the '08 playoffs as Jordan got out of Dennis in '97.

Dudes just see a name and make assumptions based on reputation. It'll be hilarious when some ignorant kid years from now tells you how lucky Bron was to play with Shaq. :lol


15 rebounds per game in the 90s is basically 25 rebounds per game in the 60s

+ rodmans defense/ability to defend bigs like shaq


so hes basically bill russell... yet hes not an asset

:lol

[3ball]

Scottie Pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pau Gasol
Dennis Rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lamar odom
Toni Kukoc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rookie Ariza
steve kerr >>>>>> shannon brown
luc longley > 6ppg bynum
Ron Harper >>>> derek Fisher
jason caffey > radmanovic
randy brown > jordan farmar
robert parish >>>>>> dj mbenga
bison dele >>>>> luke walton
jud buechler >>>>>> adam morrison
dickey simpkins >> sasha




seriously wtf are people on ISH smoking these days...
If you reversed every single one except Kukoc and bison dele, you'd have it right.

[DonDadda59]

ummm no

Each guy's "help" in the playoffs/finals...

'97 Bulls Playoffs
Pippen: 19/7/4 (42% FG)
Rodman: 4/8 (37% FG)
Kukoc: 8/3/3 (36% FG)

'97 Bulls Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 (42% FG)
Rodman: 2/8 (25% FG)
Kukoc: 8/3/3 (41% FG)

'98 Bulls Playoffs
Pippen: 17/7/5 (42% FG) *Missed half the season after back surgery*
Rodman: 5/12/2 (37% FG) *Stripped of starting job by Phil Jackson*
Kukoc: 13/4/3 (39% FG)

'98 Bulls Playoffs
Pippen: 16/7/5 (41% FG) *Missed half the season after back surgery*
Rodman: 3/8 (46% FG) *Stripped of starting job by Phil Jackson*
Kukoc: 15/5/3 (50% FG)

'09 Lakers Playoffs
Pau Gasol: 18/11/3/2 (58% FG)
Lamar Odom: 12/9/2 (52% FG)
Trevor Ariza: 11/4/2 (50% FG)

'09 Lakers Finals
Pau Gasol: 19/9/2/2 (60% FG)
Lamar Odom: 13/8 (54% FG)
Trevor Ariza: 11/6/2/2 (36% FG)
*Derek Fisher: 11/3/2 (50% FG)*

Bean's help in '09>>Jordan's help in '97 & '98.

Cut and dry.

[3ball]

15 rebounds per game in the 90s is basically 25 rebounds per game in the 60s

+ rodmans defense/ability to defend bigs like shaq


so hes basically bill russell... yet hes not an asset


He asked you to give a rundown of Rodman's playoff and Finals performance during the 2nd three-peat, and you respond with some ignorant blather

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkodTydUR0E

[DonDadda59]

15 rebounds per game in the 90s is basically 25 rebounds per game in the 60s

+ rodmans defense/ability to defend bigs like shaq


so hes basically bill russell... yet hes not an asset

:lol

If Dennis Rodman putting up 2 PPG and 7.7 RPG on 25% FG a game means he's Bill Russell, then Pau in '09 was Wilt Chamberlain on the super soldier serum. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Each guy's "help" in the playoffs/finals...

'97 Bulls Playoffs
Pippen: 19/7/4 (42% FG)
Rodman: 4/8 (37% FG)
Kukoc: 8/3/3 (36% FG)

'97 Bulls Finals
Pippen: 20/8/4/2/2 (42% FG)
Rodman: 2/8 (25% FG)
Kukoc: 8/3/3 (41% FG)

'98 Bulls Playoffs
Pippen: 17/7/5 (42% FG) *Missed half the season after back surgery*
Rodman: 5/12/2 (37% FG) *Stripped of starting job by Phil Jackson*
Kukoc: 13/4/3 (39% FG)

'98 Bulls Finals
Pippen: 16/7/5 (41% FG) *Missed half the season after back surgery*
Rodman: 3/8 (46% FG) *Stripped of starting job by Phil Jackson*
Kukoc: 15/5/3 (50% FG)

'09 Lakers Playoffs
Pau Gasol: 18/11/3/2 (58% FG)
Lamar Odom: 12/9/2 (52% FG)
Trevor Ariza: 11/4/2 (50% FG)

'09 Lakers Finals
Pau Gasol: 19/9/2/2 (60% FG)
Lamar Odom: 13/8 (54% FG)
Trevor Ariza: 11/6/2/2 (36% FG)
*Derek Fisher: 11/3/2 (50% FG)*

Bean's help in '09>>Jordan's help in '97 & '98.

Cut and dry.


http://i39.tinypic.com/2ur9l5v.gif

[kennethgriffin]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ur9l5v.gif


the lakers were a sh*t defensive team, soft as hell when they won. basically won on offense

bulls throughout the 90s were built nearly ENTIRELY on team defense

having the top 3 overall defenders in the entire NBA on one roster. with other great defensive role players

and youre looking at ppg in the playoffs? come on man


i thought you were a real bulls fan

[3ball]

and youre looking at ppg in the playoffs? come on man


yeah, who cares about points... when's the last time that won a ballgame.. :rolleyes:

[IllegalD]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ur9l5v.gif

Jordan's Best Teammates: Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

Final Tally: 2 HOFs (soon to be 3, when Kukoc makes it for his international career).


Kobe's Best Teammates: Gasol, Odom, Ariza

Final Tally: 1 HOF, 1 Crackhead.

Jordan's Help >>> Kobe's help.

[kennethgriffin]

yeah, who cares about points... when's the last time that won a ballgame.. :rolleyes:


points are half the game...


gasol could outscore pippen and he'd still be worth half as much to a team


pippen was basically the only guy in the entire nba that could have slowed down jordan

and he played with jordan


the 2nd guy with the best chance at slowing down jordan was dennis rodman..

and he played with jordan


:roll:


f*ckin stupid as f*ck ... jordan was a lucky S.O.B

would be like kawhi and iggy being on lebrons team for the 2014 and 2015 finals

:lol


if kawhi or iggy were legendary HOF'rs ofcourse

[3ball]

Final Tally: 2 HOFs (soon to be 3, when Kukoc makes it for his international career).


Jordan 3-peated from 1991-1993 with just one HOF... Pippen... That's less help than Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan or Kobe had:

HOF Pippen < HOF's Kareem/Worthy... HOF's Mchale/Parish/DJ... HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen.... HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi... HOF Kobe or HOF Shaq.

So it's QUITE CLEAR that MJ won with the least help of all these guys - that's why he had better stats than all these guys... 2+2=4... Even the 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) say Jordan's 1991 cast as worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with... So MJ won with less than they ever did.. And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with..

[DonDadda59]

the lakers were a sh*t defensive team, soft as hell when they won. basically won on offense

bulls throughout the 90s were built nearly ENTIRELY on team defense

having the top 3 overall defenders in the entire NBA on one roster. with other great defensive role players

and youre looking at ppg in the playoffs? come on man


i thought you were a real bulls fan

http://a1.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/NBA/images/2014/12/03/120314-1-NBA-Barkley-Smith-OB-PI.vadapt.620.high.77.jpg

"Come on, Kenny..."

The Lakers were ranked 6th and 4th respectively in defense in '09 and '10.

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan's Best Teammates: Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

Final Tally: 2 HOFs (soon to be 3, when Kukoc makes it for his international career).


Kobe's Best Teammates: Gasol, Odom, Ariza

Final Tally: 1 HOF, 1 Crackhead.

Jordan's Help >>> Kobe's help.


youl say gasol, odom, ariza >>>>>>>>>>> pippen, rodman, kukoc


during a jordan love fest



then the next day when its a greatest team debate. youl hype those mother ****ers up like theyre actually who they are and were to their teams


:oldlol:


everyone says the 90s bulls were the best team ever



but they sucked at the same time


:lol


f*ck jordan fans are silly as shit

[kennethgriffin]

http://a1.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/fscom/NBA/images/2014/12/03/120314-1-NBA-Barkley-Smith-OB-PI.vadapt.620.high.77.jpg

"Come on, Kenny..."

The Lakers were ranked 6th and 4th respectively in defense in '09 and '10.


analytics say lebrons clutch and bill russell isnt a top 60 player all time


and even i know kobe wasnt better than shaq in 2001


f*ck espn last second stats

f*ck per

f*ck win shares


f*ck defensive ratings

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan 3-peated from 1991-1993 with just one HOF... Pippen... That's less help than Magic, Bird, Lebron, Duncan or Kobe had:

HOF Pippen < HOF's Kareem/Worthy... HOF's Mchale/Parish/DJ... HOF's Wade/Bosh/Allen.... HOF's Parker/Ginobili/Kawhi... HOF Kobe or HOF Shaq.

So it's QUITE CLEAR that MJ won with the least help of all these guys - that's why he had better stats than all these guys... 2+2=4... Even the 538 rankings (https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png) say Jordan's 1991 cast as worse than anything Lebron, Magic, Bird, Duncan, or Kobe ever won with... So MJ won with less than they ever did.. And his 1993 cast was ranked as worse than anything Lebron, Kobe, or Magic ever won with..


kobe won 2 titles without a top 80 player all time


all 6 of jordans came with a top 25 player all time

[DonDadda59]

Jordan's Best Teammates: Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc

Final Tally: 2 HOFs (soon to be 3, when Kukoc makes it for his international career).


Kobe's Best Teammates: Gasol, Odom, Ariza

Final Tally: 1 HOF, 1 Crackhead.

Jordan's Help >>> Kobe's help.

Exactly what I was talking about on the last page. Guys who never saw any of the games just going by name brand. Rodman was finished as an elite player after '96 and was getting benched by Phil because he was playing so badly and Pippen was playing on a surgically repaired back. He missed a huge chunk of the game 6 in '98 where Jordan had his legendary game, series, and championship clinching sequence.

Going by your 'logic', Kobe had more help in '04 and '13 than Jordan (or any player in History really) ever did:

http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kobe-malone-shaq-payton-174979_480_art_R0.jpeg

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

How many HOFers is that? :biggums:

[IllegalD]

Exactly what I was talking about on the last page. Guys who never saw any of the games just going by name brand. Rodman was finished as an elite player after '96 and was getting benched by Phil because he was playing so badly and Pippen was playing on a surgically repaired back. He missed a huge chunk of the game 6 in '98 where Jordan had his legendary game, series, and championship clinching sequence.

Going by your 'logic', Kobe had more help in '04 and '13 than Jordan (or any player in History really) ever did:

http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kobe-malone-shaq-payton-174979_480_art_R0.jpeg

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

How many HOFers is that? :biggums:

Malone was injured and in his 40s, Payton was way past his prime. So that still makes just one HOF teammate in SHaq.

in 2013 Nash barely played, and Artest isn't a HOF. So that's still just 2 HOF teammates to Jordan's (soon to be) 3.

[kennethgriffin]

Exactly what I was talking about on the last page. Guys who never saw any of the games just going by name brand. Rodman was finished as an elite player after '96 and was getting benched by Phil because he was playing so badly and Pippen was playing on a surgically repaired back. He missed a huge chunk of the game 6 in '98 where Jordan had his legendary game, series, and championship clinching sequence.

Going by your 'logic', Kobe had more help in '04 and '13 than Jordan (or any player in History really) ever did:

http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kobe-malone-shaq-payton-174979_480_art_R0.jpeg

http://alamocitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/LA-Lakers-2012-2013-Roster.jpg

How many HOFers is that? :biggums:



george karl said rodman was the real mvp of chicago


how many coaches around the league said gary payton or karl malone were the real mvps of L.A.


i'm going to bed. f*ck everything

[3ball]

kobe won 2 titles without a top 80 player all time

all 6 of jordans came with a top 25 player all time


If Pippen was really a top 50 player, other all-time greats wouldn't think he's garbage and snicker when his name is brought up.. i.e. Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, the entire Pistons team, or Shaq for that matter.... All-time greats don't laugh and snicker when Dr. J's name is brought up, or Moses Malone, or a REAL top 50 player like that.

Pau is easily better - in addition to better stats, Pau was a DOMINANT PLAYER, whereas Pippen has never dominated... Pau commanded double-teams... Pippen never did.

Here's the reality - Pippen required a ton of improvement when he first came in the league and therefore needed to land in the right situation to realize that development... He couldn't land on a team with a bad environment, and he couldn't land on a really good team either - for example, his 7.9 ppg would never have gotten playing time on the stacked, 1988 champion Lakers.. Landing on a bad team like the Bulls, alongside a hard worker and the reigning DPOY was perfect for Pippen.

Pippen's undeveloped game and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Pau, who was good right away - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Pau is easily the better player.. The funny thing is that out of all the teams Pip could've landed on - he landed on the goat's team, yet people think it's "coincidence" that Pippen turned out the way he did.
.

[DonDadda59]

Malone was injured and in his 40s, Payton was way past his prime. So that still makes just one HOF teammate in SHaq.

Scottie Pippen missed half of the '98 season following back surgery. A 35 year old Jordan won MVP, the scoring title, ASG MVP (Schooling Young Beans for good measure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LCvIFjjAA)), won all NBA + All NBA first team honors and led the Bulls to the championship in his typical legendary fashion while winning his 6th MVP.

Nobody's got time for excuses.


in 2013 Nash barely played, and Artest isn't a HOF. So that's still just 2 HOF teammates to Jordan's (soon to be) 3.

Shaq, Malone, Payton, Howard, Gasol, and Nash are all HOFers and Artest was DPOY.

Wow.

Does anyone else in History boast such stacked rosters?

I think not.


i'm going to bed. f*ck everything

:(

[3ball]

Pau was a DOMINANT PLAYER, whereas Pippen has never dominated... Pau commanded double-teams... Pippen never did.. Pippen had horrific, literally WOAT playoff series in his prime.. Pau never did.

Here's the reality - Pippen required a ton of improvement when he first came in the league and therefore needed to land in the right situation to realize that development... He couldn't land on a team with a bad environment, and he couldn't land on a really good team either - for example, his 7.9 ppg would never have gotten playing time on the stacked, 1988 champion Lakers.. Landing on a bad team like the Bulls, alongside a hard worker and reigning DPOY was perfect for Pippen.

Pippen's undeveloped game and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Pau, who was good right away - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Pau is easily the better player.. The funny thing is that out of all the teams Pip could've landed on - he landed on the goat's team, yet people think it's "coincidence" that he turned out the way he did.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pau was a DOMINANT PLAYER, whereas Pippen has never dominated... Pau commanded double-teams... Pippen never did.

Here's the reality - Pippen required a ton of improvement when he first came in the league and therefore needed to land in the right situation to realize that development... He couldn't land on a team with a bad environment, and he couldn't land on a really good team either - for example, his 7.9 ppg would never have gotten playing time on the stacked, 1988 champion Lakers.. Landing on a bad team like the Bulls, alongside a hard worker and reigning DPOY was perfect for Pippen.

Pippen's undeveloped game and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Pau, who was good right away - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Pau is easily the better player.. The funny thing is that out of all the teams Pip could've landed on - he landed on the goat's team, yet people think it's "coincidence" that Pippen turned out the way he did.

Pippen's lone season as #1 option > any Gasol #1 option season

[3ball]

Pippen's lone season as #1 option > any Gasol #1 option season


Pau was a dominant offensive player that could create his own shot consistently - Pippen could not.. Pippen needed a 3-peat supporting cast to win 50 games.. Otoh, Pau won 50 games and made playoffs multiple years without needing to win 3 rings first - by winning 3 rings on the back of MJ's goat stats, Pippen had the best supporting cast possible that anyone could ever have.

Btw, Pippen had seasons as a 2nd option that were better than his season as the #1 option:

Pippen 1992: 21.0 ppg.. 7.7 rpg.. 7.0 apg.. 50.6% fg
Pippen 1994: 22.0 ppg.. 8.7 rpg.. 5.6 apg.. 47.8% fg


Pippen's undeveloped game as a rookie and resulting need to land in the right situation made him more of a gamble compared to Pau, who was good right away - so if we're being realistic and considering what would happen if they were drafted by 100 different teams, Pau is easily the better player.. The funny thing is that out of all the teams Pip could've landed on - he landed on the goat's team who was a hard-worker and reigning DPOY, yet people think it's "coincidence" that Pippen turned out the way he did.

[ShaqTwizzle]

so you're avoding the question I proposed and creating your own

nice :oldlol: :oldlol:

Pippen = 17x all nba team selection

Pau = 4x all nba team selection

This post kept poking at me for some reason so I will respond and explain why it is unfair to compare them using All-NBA selections.

#1. They played a difference position and they played in different eras so a direct comparison would obviously be flawed to some degree no matter what.

#2. Gasol played in the strongest PF era ever.
During his Prime years he had to compete with guys like KG, Dirk, Duncan, Webber and even guys like Amare, Brand and Bosh had an impressive Peak year here or there further increasing the competition for the award.
Pau was also a partially finesse European player and his inability to grab much attention on a weak small market team also lowered the chance that he might snag an award (low visibility).

So yeah the All-NBA comparison is literally meaningless.

Pau had an amazing career.
He is truly one of the greatest offensive PF's ever and is also one of the most skilled and best passing PF's ever.
He won the ROY and averaged 18 / 9 / 2.7-apg / 2.1-bpg in his first NBA season.
He is also a solid rebounder and an overall good defender during his Prime (and excellent during his Peak years).

I see him as a slightly weaker overall McHale and I think that he is certainly on the same tier as McHale career-wise due to his superior longevitiy.
So he is at worst a Top 60 All-Timer and could arguably crack the Top 50.

There is a sort of cognitive dissonance amoung some fans (and many Kobe fans) where they just have been told or convinced themselves that Gasol wasn't that great so they end up not appreciating how special he was.

[Paul George 24]

LOL why did you copy my avi btw??


Where you so shook by my avi, that it forced you to change the avi you've been using for the past 5 years, just to copy my avi within 2 minutes of seeing it



Do I scare you so much, that I caused you to completely change your avi of 5 years within 2 minutes

:lol

2 FOR 7 NEXT YEAR :lol