Explain to me, in detail, how Wade is better than West...

[stalkerforlife]

Because the facts don't say it.

Go...

[Gileraracer]

So, who said it?

[Dragonyeuw]

What are the facts?

[stalkerforlife]

So, who said it?

Wade stans...

[stalkerforlife]

What are the facts?

You tell me.

[Dragonyeuw]

You tell me.

You tell me. You're the thread creator. You're the one who mentioned something about facts. So.....what facts?

[ClipperRevival]

You can make a case for Wade. In terms of sheer measurables, he was taller, longer and about 20 lbs heavier. Not to mention a more explosive athlete. So in many instances, he could be more impactful.

Wade was also GOAT level as a slasher and at breaking down defenders and attacking the basket. The hardest thing to do in basketball is to break down a set defender with a set defense to back up that defender. Few people have the ability to not only do this but also face the doubles and still dominate. Wade was one of those. West was the much better shooter but Wade was more complete offensively and more well rounded.

At their peak, you can make an argument for either. Wade has 3 rings, West has 1. Both have 1 FMVP. Neither ever won an MVP.

I'll be honest, I never saw West play. So my evaluation of him is based on common knowledge and what I've seen/read up on him. So I'm sure some old timers can add their 2 cents. But I have seen Wade play and at his best, he was ALMOST about as good as any 2 guard ever not named MJ.

[Fudge]

Hey Dustin, more videos instead of threads, brother.

[Levity]

Tough question to ask the majority posters of ISH

one guy, they have their grandpa how good he was in his prime

the other guy, they have to ask their older brother how good he was in his prime

so i guess it comes down to family biases

[sdot_thadon]

I can't say it with certainty because I never got to watch west at the same level of detail as wade. So my view of West is strictly highlight reels and history books, while I've seen the good, bad, and ugly with wade. At his absolute peak wade can be in the conversation with any sg ever, perhaps even with some of MJ's lesser years. As some mentioned wade was a bit bigger, he's probably the best shot blocking guard of all time. And his game was simply electric, the one fault we may be able to cite is his best didn't last as long as it did for those other guys.

[Mass Debator]

Tough question to ask the majority posters of ISH

one guy, they have their grandpa how good he was in his prime

the other guy, they have to ask their older brother how good he was in his prime

so i guess it comes down to family biases
Lol pretty much this.

I consider West a point guard though so that's why I have Wade as the 3rd best shooting guard. Same tier of players so it doesn't matter to me who puts that guy above that guy.

[ClipperRevival]

The big hit against Wade was he was never able to stay healthy for a sustained period of time. So we never got to see him put together a 10-12 year run where he was mostly healthy. But when he was healthy, he was jaw dropping good. Smoothest player I have ever seen. Always in control and none of that herky, jerky stuff. Amazing at changing speeds/pace. Great Euro step. Just incredibly impactful on both ends. GOAT level shot blocking too as a guard.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol pretty much this.

I consider West a point guard though so that's why I have Wade as the 3rd best shooting guard. Same tier of players so it doesn't matter to me who puts that guy above that guy.

West is in the 11-14 range, Wade is usually 22-27, so no, they're not the same tier.

[CurryOverLebron]

Wade's prime is too short to have him above West

[Dragonyeuw]

One little known or perhaps forgotten fact is that Wade was carving up the same Celtics defense that gave Lebron and Kobe fits between 2008 and 2010.

[Mass Debator]

Meh I meant same tier as a guard. But in that case, people have Isiah Thomas 15-20, and I don't see why Wade wouldn't be ranked higher than him.

1 = Jordan, Magic, Kobe, Oscar
2 = West, Wade, Isiah, ...

[Clifton]

I see them on the same level. If West were in his prime back when Wade and Lebron were running the league, I think Wade vs. West would be a very hot topic of debate. You have to account for his bball IQ and clutchness.

And considering how short Wade's prime was (was it even 4 years?), I don't think he'd be remembered as the greater player today.

At the same time when those two were at the top along with Kobe, Steve Nash was winning MVPs. If Nash can win MVPs in today's league, why not West? And West was an impact player defensively as well from what I understand, so the one-way player argument that always held Nash back in these discussions wouldn't work.

[WayOfWade]

I made this comment earlier today, I'll respond more in depth in a little bit, I'm currently walking home

[Dragonyeuw]

Pretty much any argument against Wade is going to start and end with his relative lack of longevity. You'd be hard pressed to find many 2-guards that peaked higher. His 2009 level really started after the 2006 title, but he got injured in 2007 and 2008. He was putting up like 29,7,7 or something like that in 2007 before the shoulder injury.

[ArbitraryWater]

I made this comment earlier today, I'll respond more in depth in a little bit, I'm currently walking home

Have a good walk home bro.. is it a joyful walk? You walking past some green? Nice scenery? Like a good walk.. good area, music, or none, if you just feel like being present.

[WayOfWade]

Have a good walk home bro.. is it a joyful walk? You walking past some green? Nice scenery? Like a good walk.. good area, music, or none, if you just feel like being present.
Yeah, I'm walking through a park right now listening to some Ellie Goulding. Kind of chilly, but not too bad

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah, I'm walking through a park right now listening to some Ellie Goulding. Kind of chilly, but not too bad
Where?

[WayOfWade]

Where?
At BYU

[ArbitraryWater]

At BYU

Steve Young :applause:

[West-Side]

Wade perhaps had a better peak, but who the hell in their right mind has Wade above West on an all-time list???

Wade's health issues cost him an opportunity to contend for a top 15 spot.

[feyki]

West is in the 11-14 range, Wade is usually 22-27, so no, they're not the same tier.


Wade's prime is too short to have him above West

True .

[WayOfWade]

Steve Young :applause:
Jimmer Fredette!!! Oh wait...

[aj1987]

I see them on the same level. If West were in his prime back when Wade and Lebron were running the league, I think Wade vs. West would be a very hot topic of debate. You have to account for his bball IQ and clutchness.

And considering how short Wade's prime was (was it even 4 years?), I don't think he'd be remembered as the greater player today.

At the same time when those two were at the top along with Kobe, Steve Nash was winning MVPs. If Nash can win MVPs in today's league, why not West? And West was an impact player defensively as well from what I understand, so the one-way player argument that always held Nash back in these discussions wouldn't work.
'05-'12 and considered by many to be a star in '13 as well (injuries hampered his PO's though).

MVP? Sure, if he was on a good team. Kobe on good teams would've won MVP's in '06 and '07. Wade could've won MVP if he was on a ~60 win team in '09 and '10.

Miami Heat average pace from '04-'15 - 95
Lakers' average pace from '61-'74 - 115.

[RidonKs]

we're about to find out this season

dwyane wade has never been so well rested. he missed a quarter of the regular season and his team missed the playoffs last year. his team is being called the most interesting in the league heading into one of recent memory's more interesting seasons. he has never had such an eclectic group of talent around him where he is the go to guy and defacto leader. we'll measure their potential as a unit by how well he plays.

he does have the opportunity to be better than west. he needs to put together a string of competitive series against lebron james and the cavs... pit himself square against the king and make a valiant effort. even if he doesn't win, that will cement his place.

but if he bows out early this season with injury, or if he lets the team crumble around him and give up, i think you have to give the logo a clear edge.

[catch24]

I'd roll with The Logo only because of his superior longevity. I believe as SG's, they're in the same tier though (impact on both ends and whatnot).

Wade's defense is what REALLY gets underlooked. Dude is arguably the greatest shot-blocker at his position.

[Rocketswin2013]

No one knows because no one has seen Jerry West play basketball.

[Dragonyeuw]

we're about to find out this season

dwyane wade has never been so well rested. he missed a quarter of the regular season and his team missed the playoffs last year. his team is being called the most interesting in the league heading into one of recent memory's more interesting seasons. he has never had such an eclectic group of talent around him where he is the go to guy and defacto leader. we'll measure their potential as a unit by how well he plays.


He's still a pretty beat up 33, soon to be 34. That's not young for a guard by any stretch, especially one with Wade's injury history. Now, if 2009 Wade had this current Heat team with Bosh/Dragic/Whiteside etc, that would be interesting.

[feyki]

'05-'12 and considered by many to be a star in '13 as well (injuries hampered his PO's though).

MVP? Sure, if he was on a good team. Kobe on good teams would've won MVP's in '06 and '07. Wade could've won MVP if he was on a ~60 win team in '09 and '10.

Miami Heat average pace from '04-'15 - 95
Lakers' average pace from '61-'74 - 115.

No , 2009 and 2010 Lebron better than Wade anyway .

05-14 Heat ortg is 1.08

62-73 Lakers ortg is 0.98

.

[Bankaii]

Why do people only choose to use their subjective bullshit on certain players?

No one complains about West playing in a weak ass era with a stacked team like for Wilt.

And I haven't seen one 3/5>>>1/10 in support of Wade. The ironic part is that this thread is made by a Kovetard that spams finals records.

Wade is clearly a better player, not even close.

[derb2k2]

Who would I take in a one-on-one? Who would you?

:coleman:

[SouBeachTalents]

Based on careers Wade just has no argument over West due to poor longevity for an all time great. You could make an argument for West over Kobe even. Peak wise, all 3 are fairly close

[JimmyMcAdocious]

No one knows because no one has seen Jerry West play basketball.

I'm not even sure he existed. A white guy dominating basketball during a decade with high racial tensions? Sounds too convenient.

[feyki]

Why do people only choose to use their subjective bullshit on certain players?

No one complains about West playing in a weak ass era with a stacked team like for Wilt.

And I haven't seen one 3/5>>>1/10 in support of Wade. The ironic part is that this thread is made by a Kovetard that spams finals records.

Wade is clearly a better player, not even close.

Ignorance .

[Cold soul]

Wade perhaps had a better peak, but who the hell in their right mind has Wade above West on an all-time list???

Wade's health issues cost him an opportunity to contend for a top 15 spot.


Yup around summer of 06 I was thinking to myself this Wade vs Kobe debate as best shooting guard since Jordan will be interesting around this time too bad injuries killed his career he was heading to maybe having top 10-15 career. I love Wade sucks how it played out his best was as good as Kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

Why do people only choose to use their subjective bullshit on certain players?

No one complains about West playing in a weak ass era with a stacked team like for Wilt.

And I haven't seen one 3/5>>>1/10 in support of Wade. The ironic part is that this thread is made by a Kovetard that spams finals records.

Wade is clearly a better player, not even close.

I agree with most of this.

[outbreak]

he's not and neither are kobe or lebron

[Cold soul]

Based on careers Wade just has no argument over West due to poor longevity for an all time great. You could make an argument for West over Kobe even. Peak wise, all 3 are fairly close


West has no case over Kobe what legit argument does he have? Hell West himself would laugh at notion of putting himself over Kobe.

[LoneyROY7]

Because Wade regularly hosts marijuana sex parties. Jerry who?

[SugarHill]

Who would I take in a one-on-one? Who would you?

:coleman:
:lol

[stalkerforlife]

I do not like Wade as a person, so maybe i'm biased.

Wade may very well be the greater player, regardless of the stats.

Thanks for all the replies.

[iTare]

I do not like Wade as a person, so maybe i'm biased.

Wade may very well be the greater player, regardless of the stats.

Thanks for all the replies.
You're welcome man.

[GrapeApe]

I've discussed this before and it may seem a bit strange, but I consider West to be "greater", but I have Wade ranked as the 3rd best SG. I think West's influence on the game and being "the logo" must be taken into consideration in terms of his all -time ranking, therefore imo he ranks higher than Wade in that regard. When it comes to positional rankings I'm less inclined to consider those kinds of things and focus more on performance and ability. Though I'm admittedly biased and perhaps a case can be made for West, I think Wade is the superior player. As others have mentioned, it's hard to truly rate West without having seen him play, and it's extremely hard to compare stats across eras. For the record, West himself has called Wade a better player than he ever was but maybe he was just being humble. Regardless, it's obviously very close between those two and it's probably just a matter of preference.

[Wade's Rings]

I've discussed this before and it may seem a bit strange, but I consider West to be "greater", but I have Wade ranked as the 3rd best SG. I think West's influence on the game and being "the logo" must be taken into consideration in terms of his all -time ranking, therefore imo he ranks higher than Wade in that regard. When it comes to positional rankings I'm less inclined to consider those kinds of things and focus more on performance and ability. Though I'm admittedly biased and perhaps a case can be made for West, I think Wade is the superior player. As others have mentioned, it's hard to truly rate West without having seen him play, and it's extremely hard to compare stats across eras. For the record, West himself has called Wade a better player than he ever was but maybe he was just being humble. Regardless, it's obviously very close between those two and it's probably just a matter of preference.

When was this?

[Smoke117]

Tough question to ask the majority posters of ISH

one guy, they have their grandpa how good he was in his prime

the other guy, they have to ask their older brother how good he was in his prime

so i guess it comes down to family biases

LOL. One of the best post I've ever read here and so accurate for all these youngsters.


I do not like Wade as a person, so maybe i'm biased.

Uh...the only thing you know about the man as a person is shit you read on the internet. Or are we talking about all these "cheap shots" the haters like to throw around? Which is ironic since it's usually Kobe stans and Kobe is one of the dirtiest players ever with his elbows.

[SouBeachTalents]

West has no case over Kobe what legit argument does he have? Hell West himself would laugh at notion of putting himself over Kobe.

You throw out team accomplishments, you could definitely make a case for West being ahead of Kobe. Similar personal accolades, with West having better stats, especially so postseason/Finals wise. You can bring up era, but West was having absolutely monster playoff/Finals series. I'm not even saying he is, or should be ranked ahead of Kobe, but to act like it's not at least debatable is ridiculous

[stalkerforlife]

LOL. One of the best post I've ever read here and so accurate for all these youngsters.



Uh...the only thing you know about the man as a person is shit you read on the internet. Or are we talking about all these "cheap shots" the haters like to throw around? Which is ironic since it's usually Kobe stans and Kobe is one of the dirtiest players ever with his elbows.

Wade is a fake nice guy. He's a fraud. He's a serial cheater that pretends to be a mama's boy. He is a dirty player. He broke Kobe's nose in an all-star game.

If he and his fans didn't push some kind of angelic persona for Wade, I wouldn't care.

[GrapeApe]

When was this?

During a Heat vs Lakers game in 2009 or 2010. He was being interviewed and was talking about Wade and Kobe being two of the best SG's of all time. The interviewer made a comment that West was great himself, and West said (paraphrasing) "I was never the player that those guys are".

Even before he made that comment he was basically implying that Kobe and Wade were the 2nd and 3rd greatest SG's of all time.

[Wade's Rings]

During a Heat vs Lakers game in 2009 or 2010. He was being interviewed and was talking about Wade and Kobe being two of the best SG's of all time. The interviewer made a comment that West was great himself, and West said (paraphrasing) "I was never the player that those guys are".

Even before he made that comment he was basically implying that Kobe and Wade were the 2nd and 3rd greatest SG's of all time.

Ok thanks :cheers:

[Rocketswin2013]

I'm not even sure he existed. A white guy dominating basketball during a decade with high racial tensions? Sounds too convenient.
Mate, the **** are you talking about?

[WayOfWade]

Alright, here is what I believe, and I believe that Wade currently is better all-time than West And here is why...
1. Wade has more rings than West doest, beating him 3-1, and even has a title as the man where as West does not.
2. Has a higher PER, beating West 25 to 23
3. Has a superior FG%, 49 compared to 47.4
4. Beats him out in efg%, .504 to .474
5. Edges him out in TS%, .566 and .550
6. To start a franchise, who honestly would you take? I'd take Wade over West without any second thought. Despite all the injuries, Wade is far and away the better player, eras taken into account or not
7. Higher peak than West, mainly because he is a more efficient player
8. Better performance in the finals, obviously holds the better record (3 for 5 > 1 for 9), and has better performances in the finals themselves, seeing as he was able to get the job done when it mattered most (2006 Finals, games 2-5 2012 Finals, games 4-7 2013 Finals) while West squandered golden opportunities (Game 7 vs. Celtics, 1969, Game 7 vs. NY 1970). Wade did as well, but he has delivered more times than not.

I am not going to claim to have ever watched Jerry West ever (I have only seen clips) or that I follow him all that much and I am probably a Wade stan, nor will I claim that a case cannot be made for West, seeing as he us a superior jump shooter, defender, would have higher %'s had there been a 3-point line, and would've won more were it not for Bill Russel, and is the Logo, but all things considered, Wade is greater all-time.

*if I got any stats wrong, my bad, I'm only human

[OldSchoolBBall]

Wade has a better peak season or two, but I wouldn't put him above West all time. I don't even think Wade had the better prime (5-6 consecutive years).

[ArbitraryWater]

Alright, here is what I believe, and I believe that Wade currently is better all-time than West And here is why...
1. Wade has more rings than West doest, beating him 3-1, and even has a title as the man where as West does not.
2. Has a higher PER, beating West 25 to 23
3. Has a superior FG%, 49 compared to 47.4
4. Beats him out in efg%, .504 to .474
5. Edges him out in TS%, .566 and .550
6. To start a franchise, who honestly would you take? I'd take Wade over West without any second thought. Despite all the injuries, Wade is far and away the better player, eras taken into account or not
7. Higher peak than West, mainly because he is a more efficient player
8. Better performance in the finals, obviously holds the better record (3 for 5 > 1 for 9), and has better performances in the finals themselves, seeing as he was able to get the job done when it mattered most (2006 Finals, games 2-5 2012 Finals, games 4-7 2013 Finals) while West squandered golden opportunities (Game 7 vs. Celtics, 1969, Game 7 vs. NY 1970). Wade did as well, but he has delivered more times than not.

I am not going to claim to have ever watched Jerry West ever (I have only seen clips) or that I follow him all that much and I am probably a Wade stan, nor will I claim that a case cannot be made for West, seeing as he us a superior jump shooter, defender, would have higher %'s had there been a 3-point line, and would've won more were it not for Bill Russel, and is the Logo, but all things considered, Wade is greater all-time.

*if I got any stats wrong, my bad, I'm only human

The ring count is completely irrelevant given their circumstances, completely.. 3 of your points revolve around a minor edge in efficiency, come on now. Point 6 is arbitrary, and point 8 is flatout false, lol.

This left me with a bigger belief in West's superiority, actually.. there just is nothing in the big picture Wade is better at, seemingly..

[houston]

Wade better than west. West get props for being white but he was vastly overrated. The reason why Wade don't have all-nba 1st teams like that cause he played in an era with Kobe.

[Wade's Rings]

The ring count is completely irrelevant given their circumstances, completely.. 3 of your points revolve around a minor edge in efficiency, come on now. Point 6 is arbitrary, and point 8 is flatout false, lol.

This left me with a bigger belief in West's superiority, actually.. there just is nothing in the big picture Wade is better at, seemingly..

Let's not adjust for pace and factor in era when it's Wade. If this was a Bron vs Oscar/Baylor all of that would be facrored in :rolleyes: