The greatest "respond to losses" championship runs ever...

[Magic 32]

The averages from games after a loss (at least 5 games)


Michael Jordan 1992 (7 Games, 7-0 record)

35.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.7 apg, 2.0 spg, 50.6 fg%

http://s23.postimg.org/708mrnnqj/Jordan.jpg

Best performances...

Game 7 vs Knicks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U
Game 3 vs Cavs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO4Urf7jCzE
Game 5 vs. Blazers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIZ3d0pnY1U

Hakeem Olajuwon 1995 (7 Games, 5-2 record)

31.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.3 bpg, 53.1 fg%

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Zb.4r4AS924x0U0p5HBH2g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-02-09/5e5efb60-b09b-11e4-8e03-af44ac57e06b_HADR2915.jpg

Best performances...

Game 4 vs Jazz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk
Game 3 vs Suns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXu8jDyrasM
Game 5 vs. Spurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcae_NBtkb4

Kobe Bryant 2009 (7 Games, 7-0 record)

30.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.6 spg, 50.0 fg%

http://s21.postimg.org/7lqkmmmyv/jonestrip.jpg

Best performances...

Game 4 vs Jazz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0bh6wSg_ks
Game 2 vs Rockets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi1MQ3SsWwY
Game 3 vs Nuggets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wVwztfmNVI

Shaquille O'Neal 2000 (8 Games, 6-2 record)

26.3 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.1 bpg, 52.1 fg%

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Shaquille-ONeal1.jpg

Best performances...

Game 5 vs Kings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljHfXm_OlxE
Game 4 vs Pacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljHfXm_OlxE
Game 6 vs Pacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzIZ6YtJzto

Tim Duncan 2003 (8 Games, 7-1 record)

25.8 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.1 bpg, 51.1 fg%

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/lead/lead550.jpg~original

Best performances...

Game 4 vs Lakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagMsVeyfLk
Game 2 vs Mavs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSa5HiPeQz0
Game 5 vs Nets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrPaEqpA81U

[stalkerforlife]

Best two players to ever play the game.

[iTare]

Best two players to ever play the game.
shooting guards*

there's been better players than kobe for sure.

[stalkerforlife]

shooting guards*

there's been better players than kobe for sure.

No.

Best two players of all time, regardless of position.

[iTare]

No.

Best two players of all time, regardless of position.
How is Kobe Bryant better than Kareem?

[stalkerforlife]

How is Kobe Bryant better than Kareem?

Won two titles without a fellow top 85 player of all time.

[Magic 32]

Hakeem 94 or 95?

[GrapeApe]

Won two titles without a fellow top 85 player of all time.

Complete arbitrary and subjective nonsense. :oldlol:

Kareem is the one player that has legit case to be above Jordan (I don't agree he is but a case can be made).

I've never heard ANYONE argue that Kobe had a better career than Kareem. It's absurd.

[stalkerforlife]

Complete arbitrary and subjective nonsense. :oldlol:

Kareem is the one player that has legit case to be above Jordan (I don't agree he is but a case can be made).

I've never heard ANYONE argue that Kobe had a better career than Kareem. It's absurd.

Kobe went to b2b2b finals in the deepest and greatest conference in NBA history...without a fellow top 85 player of all time.

Kareem never even came close to such a feat.

Kobe's better.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Stalker is right on this one. I hate kobe but he has a case for GOAT. In the past I was VERY biased against him but even then I couldn't rank him lower than 5. Just the way it is..

[CavaliersFTW]

Elgin Baylor or Jerry West could probably win this.

[Magic 32]

Elgin Baylor or Jerry West could probably win this.

Championship runs.

[All Net]

San Antonio Spurs

[CavaliersFTW]

Championship runs.
Being in the finals is a championship run is it not?

Thread title doesn't say "championship wins".

[GrapeApe]

Kobe went to b2b2b finals in the deepest and greatest conference in NBA history...without a fellow top 85 player of all time.Again, arbitrary and subjective criteria

Kareem never even came close to such a feat. Kareem has several feats Kobe hasn't come close to, including 6 MVPS

Kobe's better.

For the record I'm a fan of Kobe. Always have been. I think he's firmly a top 10 player all time (I used to have him 10-12 but after a recent reexamination I think he's 7-8).

I know (well I think) you're a legit Kobe fan and not one of those dudes pretending to be a stan to intentionally make a player look bad, but slow down with the "second best player all time" talk. Seriously.

[DaOldLion]

Kobe went to b2b2b finals in the deepest and greatest conference in NBA history...without a fellow top 85 player of all time.

Kareem never even came close to such a feat.

Kobe's better.

not that i'm agreeing with you but Kareem gets held to an extreme double standard..

Haters bring up Shaq for Kobe.. but Kareem only won titles with two of the top 5 GOATS of during his time (1950-1990 Magic and Oscar were easily top 5 all time ) and nobody cares...

Kareem also missed the playoffs twice in his prime... and only began winning again after Oscar when Magic joined the Lakers..

the double standard is unreal..

[stalkerforlife]

For the record I'm a fan of Kobe. Always have been. I think he's firmly a top 10 player all time (I used to have him 10-12 but after a recent reexamination I think he's 7-8).

I know (well I think) you're a legit Kobe fan and not one of those dudes pretending to be a stan to intentionally make a player look bad, but slow down with the "second best player all time" talk. Seriously.

No.

[Magic 32]

Being in the finals is a championship run is it not?

Thread title doesn't say "championship wins".

Come on now.

[DaOldLion]

Kareem won his last two titles while averaging 19/7 in the playoffs and 14/6 in the playoffs

LMAO imagine if Jordan or Kobe won a title while averaging 14 ppg in the playoffs.. the hate would be unreal :oldlol:

Kareem averaged 13/4 on 41% in his last finals.. please tell me that Kobe Jordan or Lebron would get any credit for that title in this day and age.. I DARE YOU TO...

in game 7 of that series Kareem put up 4 points on 28% FG :oldlol: what ****ing joke

I'm sure Jordan and Kobe would get full credit for that ring like Kareem does :rolleyes:

And lets not forget that a rookie pg bailed out Kareem in the finals when Kareem was out and his team was till good enough to win the deciding game :oldlol:

the double standard is ridiculous..

[Megabox!]

Come on now.:facepalm

[DaOldLion]

Kobe averaged 20+/5/5/ for every title

Kareem's 4th title came while averaging 20ppg for the playoffs..


that would have been Kobe's absolute worse scoring production for a playoff run for a ring ever :oldlol:

yet we praise Kareem for his titles and discredit Kobe for his because he played with Shaq.. yet Magic is always >>>>>>> Shaq in all time rankings.. you haters are insane and have no clue about basketball :oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Come on now.
If a player averages 40ppg in a losing effort in the finals it's not a great "finals run"?

Sorry, but I call bullshit.

West and Baylor might have this and even if they don't they deserve a mention because they had some astounding "finals runs", someone should do the stats.

[Magic 32]

If a player averages 40ppg in a losing effort in the finals it's not a great "finals run"?

Sorry, but I call bullshit.


It might be a great run but it's not a "championship run".

Playing great and winning after almost every loss tend to result in championships.

That is what this is about.

Use your "championship wins" runs somwhere else.

[DaOldLion]

If a player averages 40ppg in a losing effort in the finals it's not a great "finals run"?

Sorry, but I call bullshit.

West and Baylor might have this and even if they don't they deserve a mention because they had some astounding "finals runs", someone should do the stats.

championship run = winning an actual championship

not that difficult to understand

[Mr Feeny]

No.

Best two players of all time, regardless of position.

Kobe Bryant is not a top 10 player tbf. He's right.

[CavaliersFTW]

championship run = winning an actual championship

not that difficult to understand
Well then still some great candidates to be mentioned or tracked might be Bob Pettit, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Rick Barry, Julius Erving etc.

This is kind of a funny thread though because some players had such dominant 'championship runs' they technically can't qualify for this criteria due to WINNING so much :lol

For example, Jabbar in 1970 I think the Bucks only lost like 1 game the entire playoffs. I think it should be noted because a player on a championship run like that is even more impressive in my opinion.

[DaOldLion]

Well then still some great candidates to be mentioned or tracked might be Bob Pettit, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Rick Barry, Julius Erving etc.

This is kind of a funny thread though because some players had such dominant 'championship runs' they technically can't qualify for this criteria due to WINNING so much :lol

For example, Jabbar in 1970 I think the Bucks only lost like 1 game the entire playoffs. I think it should be noted because a player on a championship run like that is even more impressive in my opinion.

if you feel that way then make a seperate thread?

there are plenty of instances like this where a criteria is made and other players barely miss it..

no reason to derail the thread just because somebody you know about was close to the criteria but didn't make it..


:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

you don't see Kobe stans coming in here saying "but aww that's not fair Kobe played off the charts in 01 when the Lakers had the GOAT post season run"

[GrapeApe]

Kobe averaged 20+/5/5/ for every title

Kareem's 4th title came while averaging 20ppg for the playoffs..


that would have been Kobe's absolute worse scoring production for a playoff run for a ring ever :oldlol:

yet we praise Kareem for his titles and discredit Kobe for his because he played with Shaq.. yet Magic is always >>>>>>> Shaq in all time rankings.. you haters are insane and have no clue about basketball :oldlol:

I agree with the jist of what you're saying, but answer these questions. Does Kobe rank above Kareem all time? Is Kobe the 2nd greatest player all time?

I've never heard anyone, anywhere, ever, so much as flirt with the idea that the answer could possibly be yes to either of those questions.

[Magic 32]

Hakeem Olajuwon 1995 (7 Games, 5-2 record)

31.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.3 bpg, 53 fg%

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Zb.4r4AS924x0U0p5HBH2g--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztmaT1maWxsO2g9Mzc3O2lsPXBsYW 5lO3B4b2ZmPTUwO3B5b2ZmPTA7cT03NTt3PTY3MA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-02-09/5e5efb60-b09b-11e4-8e03-af44ac57e06b_HADR2915.jpg

Best performances...

Game 4 vs Jazz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk
Game 3 vs Suns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXu8jDyrasM
Game 5 vs. Spurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcae_NBtkb4

[DaOldLion]

I agree with the jist of what you're saying, but answer these questions. Does Kobe rank above Kareem all time? Is Kobe the 2nd greatest player all time?

I've never heard anyone, anywhere, ever, so much as flirt with the idea that the answer could possibly be yes to either of those questions.

Did I say that he does? I'm just pointing out the obvious contradiction of Kareem compared to other players

its funny because most people here are falling for the usual bullshit with Kareem that they try to discount when talking about Kobe (ring count with no context and scoring totals)

Nobody here watched Kareem play, they just rank him based off rings and scoring totals.. the same shit that you guys giving Kobe fans hell for bringing up.. even though Kobe's last 3 titles >>>> Kareeem's as far as impact and performance.. yet it doesn't matter here because "RANZ & SCORING TOTALS"

Kareem misses the playoffs and wins MVP.. but nobody on ISH cares, they just list off his accolades with no context..

"Kobe had Shaq".. Ok.. Kareem had Oscar and Magic :confusedshrug:

That'd be like Kobe playing with Shaq and Duncan... :confusedshrug:

you guys fall into the same trap that you constantly berate Kobe fans for doing.. no actual context with career totals and ring count.. yet since nobody ever watched Kareem play and everybody hates Kobe nobody cares to actually look into the context..

just because some old farts who grew up in the 70's and 80's want to hold on to the thought that the best player during their childhood is the undisputed GOAT or 2nd GOAT doesn't make it fact..

if Kobe missed the playoffs and won MVP wouldn't that be constantly ridiculed? If Kobe averaged 20. 19 and 14 ppg during his last 3 championship runs do you think anybody would really care about those rings?

If Kobe scored 4pts in game 7 of the NBA finals and won wouldn't that be constantly ridiculed :confusedshrug:


Kareem gets the biggest double standard I've ever seen when compared to current GOATS like Kobe and Lebron

it's ****ing laughable really :rolleyes:

[BlueandGold]

It's at least arguable as a stat... which I hate using to make my point compared to raw game film but losses do suck and as a competitor of course everyone is going to be trying harder after a loss.

[GrapeApe]

Did I say that he does? I'm just pointing out the obvious contradiction of Kareem compared to other players

its funny because most people here are falling for the usual bullshit with Kareem that they try to discount when talking about Kobe (ring count with no context and scoring totals)

Nobody here watched Kareem play, they just rank him based off rings and scoring totals.. the same shit that you guys giving Kobe fans hell for bringing up.. even though Kobe's last 3 titles >>>> Kareeem's as far as impact and performance.. yet it doesn't matter here because "RANZ & SCORING TOTALS"

Kareem misses the playoffs and wins MVP.. but nobody on ISH cares, they just list off his accolades with no context..

"Kobe had Shaq".. Ok.. Kareem had Oscar and Magic :confusedshrug:

That'd be like Kobe playing with Shaq and Duncan... :confusedshrug:

you guys fall into the same trap that you constantly berate Kobe fans for doing.. no actual context with career totals and ring count.. yet since nobody ever watched Kareem play and everybody hates Kobe nobody cares to actually look into the context..

just because some old farts who grew up in the 70's and 80's want to hold on to the thought that the best player during their childhood is the undisputed GOAT or 2nd GOAT doesn't make it fact..

if Kobe missed the playoffs and won MVP wouldn't that be constantly ridiculed? If Kobe averaged 20. 19 and 14 ppg during his last 3 championship runs do you think anybody would really care about those rings?

If Kobe scored 4pts in game 7 of the NBA finals and won wouldn't that be constantly ridiculed :confusedshrug:


Kareem gets the biggest double standard I've ever seen when compared to current GOATS like Kobe and Lebron

it's ****ing laughable really :rolleyes:

Again, you make some great points. The part about the "old farts" may be true, I'd wager that HOF basketball minds such as Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, etc...would also contend that Kareem is at worst a top 3 player all time. We as fans tend to have a very flawed and inconsistent way of analyzing players, which is part of your point. In fact, if you asked those coaches to discuss the GOAT player rankings, their criteria and views would likely be wildly different from that of fans. I don't think they would care about who played with who, who won titles with who, or how much help a player had. That stuff is mostly nonsense really.

Anyway, I apolgize to OP for contrubuting to the derailing interesting thread.

[Magic 32]

Shaquille O'Neal 2000 (8 Games, 6-2 record)

26.3 ppg, 15.0 rpg, 2.8 apg, 52.1 fg%

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Shaquille-ONeal1.jpg

Best performances...

Game 5 vs Kings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljHfXm_OlxE
Game 4 vs Pacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljHfXm_OlxE
Game 6 vs Pacers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzIZ6YtJzto

[Magic 32]

Slightly surprised by Shaq.

Expected his 2000 numbers to be astronomical.

[SouBeachTalents]

If not record wise, statistically LeBron in 2012 deserves mention

32/11/5 on 50%

[Magic 32]

Tim Duncan 2003 (8 Games, 7-1 record)

25.8 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.1 bpg, 51.1 fg%

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/lead/lead550.jpg~original

Best performances...

Game 4 vs Lakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagMsVeyfLk
Game 2 vs Mavs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSa5HiPeQz0
Game 5 vs Nets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrPaEqpA81U

[LAZERUSS]

Chamberlain in '67.

4-0

25.0 ppg, 28.3 rpg, 9.0 apg, .627 FG%.

Oh, and he held his opposing centers (Dierking, Russell, and Thurmond) to a collective .340 FG% in those four games.

[Magic 32]

Chamberlain in '67.

4-0

25.0 ppg, 28.3 rpg, 9.0 apg, .627 FG%.

At least 5 games for this list.

Just to avoid 1 game elevating the whole bunch (see Shaq in 2002)

[Magic 32]

This one is difficult...

Hakeem Olajuwon 1995 (7 Games, 5-2 record)

31.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.3 bpg, 53.1 fg%

Hakeem Olajuwon 1994 (8 Games, 6-2 record)

27.0 ppg, 12.9 rpg, 3.8 apg, 4.0 bpg, 49.5 fg%

I went with 1995. Both amazing.

[LAZERUSS]

At least 5 games for this list.

Just to avoid 1 game elevating the whole bunch (see Shaq in 2002)

For the record, how about Wilt in his team's four losses in the '67 post-season?

26.8 ppg, 23.5 rpg, 6.0 apg, and on a .558 FG%. He was almost as dominant in those losses, as he was in his wins.

[Magic 32]

For the record, how about Wilt in his team's four losses in the '67 post-season?

26.8 ppg, 23.5 rpg, 6.0 apg, and on a .558 FG%. He was almost as dominant in those losses, as he was in his wins.

Sure.

But I still think "response" games are valid as a subject.

[LAZERUSS]

At least 5 games for this list.

Just to avoid 1 game elevating the whole bunch (see Shaq in 2002)

Not really fair to players who were so dominant that their opposing teams were annihilated.

For instance, in Alcindor's (Kareem) title run in '71...

His team went 12-2 in that post-season. In his only two "response" games, he played 39 and 43 minutes in games in which his team won by 50 and 23 points. In those two games, he averaged 27 ppg, 18.5 rpg, and on a .657 FG%. BTW, those two games were against Thurmond and Wilt.

Hell, Moses in his '83 playoff run only had one opportunity for a response, and he responded with a 28 pt, 17 reb, 4 blk, 12-18 FG/FGA (.667), and 4-4 FT/FTA game, and on a .700 TS%.

And why is the cut-off five games? Again, Wilt's '67 run came with a 4-0 record, and with a staggering stat-line of 25.0 ppg, 28.3 rpg, 9.0 apg, and on a .627 FG% (all while holding his opposing centers, two of which are in the HOF, to a collective .340 FG%.)

[Magic 32]

Not really fair to players who were so dominant that their opposing teams were annihilated.

For instance, in Alcindor's (Kareem) title run in '71...

His team went 12-2 in that post-season. In his only two "response" games, he played 39 and 43 minutes in games in which his team won by 50 and 23 points. In those two games, he averaged 27 ppg, 18.5 rpg, and on a .657 FG%. BTW, those two games were against Thurmond and Wilt.

Hell, Moses in his '83 playoff run only had one opportunity for a response, and he responded with a 28 pt, 17 reb, 4 blk, 12-18 FG/FGA (.667), and 4-4 FT/FTA game, and on a .700 TS%.

And why is the cut-off five games? Again, Wilt's '67 run came with a 4-0 record, and with a staggering stat-line of 25.0 ppg, 28.3 rpg, 9.0 apg, and on a .627 FG% (all while holding his opposing centers, two of which are in the HOF, to a collective .340 FG%.)

Why the cut-off?

I looked at MJ's 2 games from 1991 and Shaq's 4 games from 2002 and decided to go with a larger sample. I could say 7 games and still keep the current list.

I think that more losses shows that the performances were needed (that the opponents were competitive).

[LAZERUSS]

Why the cut-off?

I looked at MJ's 2 games from 1991 and Shaq's 4 games from 2002 and decided to go with a larger sample. I could say 7 games and still keep the current list.

I think that more losses shows that the performances were needed (that the opponents were competitive).

Kareem gets screwed in '80 then, as well.

4-0.

34.8 ppg, 13.8 rpg, .529 FG%, .829 FT%.

[Magic 32]

Lebron fans can decide which one should be included (winning vs stats once again)

2013 (7 games, 7-0 record)

26.4 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.1 spg, 49.3 fg%

2012 (7 games, 4-3 record)

32.4 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.4 spg, 50.9 fg%

[Magic 32]

Kareem gets screwed in '80 then, as well.

4-0.

34.8 ppg, 13.8 rpg, .529 FG%, .829 FT%.

Right, but those numbers most therefore be close to his overall playoff avg.

Then it's just a great championship run...period.

[kamil]

Being in the finals is a championship run is it not?

Thread title doesn't say "championship wins".

You trying to butter up LeBron*?

[Champ]

83 - Moses
86 - Bird