LeBron aims to emulate 'fearless' Jordan

[dunksby]

LeBron James is aiming to emulate the fearless approach of his idol Michael Jordan as he prepares for another tilt at glory with the Cleveland Cavaliers following last season's heartbreak.

The world's best basketball player is girding himself for the new season after suffering yet another disappointment in the NBA Finals, when the Cavs lost out to the Golden State Warriors.

James produced a remarkable individual contribution to the Cavaliers' unsuccessful challenge, becoming the first player in history to lead both teams in points, assists and rebounds for the entire series.

Yet the statistics -- which included an eye-popping average of 35.8 points across six games -- could not mask the bitter sting of disappointment felt by the 30-year-old forward, who has now finished on the losing side four times in six visits to the NBA Finals.


James admitted recently that the latest defeat was even harder to stomach, joking he had almost got to the point where he'd prefer not to reach the postseason rather than fall at the final hurdle.

Every year you lose in the Finals, it gets worse and worse to get over," James said following another summer of discontent.

"Last year during the post-season (I asked) would I rather not even make the playoffs than lose in the Finals?

"It's a very valid question to myself. You get all the way there and you lose, it's like, 'I could have those two months back, be laying out, helping my body get better."

- Freedom from fear -

In a revealing recent interview with ESPN, James said he often felt encumbered by a fear of failure -- something he believes six-time NBA champion Jordan rarely suffered from during his career.

"I look at it like this: MJ wasn't perfect. MJ had bad games. He had turnovers. He had games where he felt like he should've been better.

"But I think the greatest thing about MJ was that he never was afraid to fail. And I think that's why he succeeded so much -- because he was never afraid of what anybody ever said about him.

"Never afraid to miss the game-winning shot, never afraid to turn the ball over. Never afraid," James said, adding that he had struggled to mirror Jordan's sense of boldness.

That's one of my biggest obstacles," James said. "I'm afraid of failure. I want to succeed so bad that I become afraid of failing."

The remedy comes through victory, James said. "Keep winning and I don't have to worry about it. Keep winning," he said.
Interpret the last part as you wil, but I tthink LeBron himself knows he ain'tas ggood as Jordan.

[Cocaine80s]

Lol why lower himself to Jordan's level?

[KiiiiNG]

Lol why lower himself to Jordan's level?
It's called humility

It's not his job to talk about being the GOAT. It's OUR job.

That's the reason we were put on this planet

[AirFederer]

LeMentalmidget

[poido123]

It's called humility

It's not his job to talk about being the GOAT. It's OUR job.

That's the reason we were put on this planet



Is this what you call Alpha Simon?


:oldlol:


RIP Lebron stans

[Paul George 24]

Lol why lower himself to Jordan's level?

2-4,LEFLOP IS DONE

[Paul George 24]

It's called humility

It's not his job to talk about being the GOAT. It's OUR job.

That's the reason we were put on this planet
IS THIS A JOKE ???????
U SAID LEFLOP IS HUMILITY :roll:

[VengefulAngel]

IS THIS A JOKE ???????
U SAID LEFLOP IS HUMILITY :roll:


:facepalm

My god, absolutely atrocious. Go back to school kid.

'You said Lebron is humble'

[knicksman]

yeah bran. Joining 2 superstars after superstars is definitely fearless. LOL Only fakkits, aka betas, would ever idolize this clown

[KembaWalker]

Better late then never, I might actually become a fan of his again

[Paul George 24]

Better late then never, I might actually become a fan of his again

HE IS NOT EVEN TOP 15 :lol

[NumberSix]

I would doubt that Cleveland is going to the finals this season.

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

:lol I wouldn't call that an upgrade. Jordan was also a mental midget.:lol

[sportjames23]

yeah bran. Joining 2 superstars after superstars is definitely fearless. LOL Only fakkits, aka betas, would ever idolize this clown

Exhibit A:


Lol why lower himself to Jordan's level?


Exhibit B:


:lol I wouldn't call that an upgrade. Jordan was also a mental midget.:lol

[DonDadda59]

I've always maintained that LeBeta's shortcomings have always come as a result of his crippling fear of failure and competition. But he needs to know that alphas, or the apex predator ala the GOAT, are born not made. Real nigguhs can smell a fugazi coming from a mile away, you can't fake the funk.

12 years into his career and he thinks he can just all of a sudden magically wish away his bitch-made tendencies?

Good luck with that :oldlol:

[Spaulding]

HE IS NOT EVEN TOP 15 :lol

Ya he is. Will finish top 10 after another ring or two.

[Foster5k]

Wade: "LeBron, you ready? This is the moment of our lives. The 2011 NBA Finals. Now, it's time for you to get that first ring!"

LeBron: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Wade: "Huh? WTF!!?? What's wrong? Why are you crying LeBron?"

LeBron: "I'm afraid of the Finals Wade! I'm scared!" :cry:

Wade: "What the... Man up fool. Look, I didn't carry your sorry ass through this season for nothing. Who sat with you during press conferences? Who bailed you out game after game? Who taught you how to win against all odds? Who? Me. That's who. Now, get your ass up and let's get this show on the road!"

LeBron: "But, Wade... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[IGOTGAME]

at least he admits that he has had mental shortcoming in the past. It has been quite obvious for anyone that has watched his career. He is a frontrunner and performs best when the pressure is off. Either as an underdog or with a comfy advantage in talent.

[Bankaii]

Wade: "LeBron, you ready? This is the moment of our lives. The 2011 NBA Finals. Now, it's time for you to get that first ring!"

LeBron: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Wade: "Huh? WTF!!?? What's wrong? Why are you crying LeBron?"

LeBron: "I'm afraid of the Finals Wade! I'm scared!" :cry:

Wade: "What the... Man up fool. Look, I didn't carry your sorry ass through this season for nothing. Who sat with you during press conferences? Who bailed you out game after game? Who taught you how to win against all odds? Who? Me. That's who. Now, get your ass up and let's get this show on the road!"

LeBron: "But, Wade... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Almost 5,000 posts and every single one of them is corny as shit.

[oh the horror]

Lebron says shit that is so utterly ridiculous sometimes that his stans have no choice but to say utterly ridiculous shit as well in order to properly even be a fan of this guy. Look at the damn responses in this thread.

Deep down these dudes know Lebron is a f*cking ass :oldlol: goodness gracious.


This dude has been in the league how long now, and he's still talking too much

[ShawkFactory]

Wade: "LeBron, you ready? This is the moment of our lives. The 2011 NBA Finals. Now, it's time for you to get that first ring!"

LeBron: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Wade: "Huh? WTF!!?? What's wrong? Why are you crying LeBron?"

LeBron: "I'm afraid of the Finals Wade! I'm scared!" :cry:

Wade: "What the... Man up fool. Look, I didn't carry your sorry ass through this season for nothing. Who sat with you during press conferences? Who bailed you out game after game? Who taught you how to win against all odds? Who? Me. That's who. Now, get your ass up and let's get this show on the road!"

LeBron: "But, Wade... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Yea bruh...watch some Louis CK clips or something. Your humor, if it's much like that post, needs an actual upgrade.

[Indian guy]

That's one of my biggest obstacles," James said. "I'm afraid of failure. I want to succeed so bad that I become afraid of failing."

The remedy comes through victory, James said. "Keep winning and I don't have to worry about it. Keep winning," he said.

He said this in 2013, prior to the start of the 2014 season. I don't know why they decided to lump this into a current article talking about his 2015 Finals.

[inclinerator]

lebron is unstoppable

[Rocketswin2013]

at least he admits that he has had mental shortcoming in the past. It has been quite obvious for anyone that has watched his career. He is a frontrunner and performs best when the pressure is off. Either as an underdog or with a comfy advantage in talent.
While this is a fun narrative, it's not even close to true.

He's had his best games when the pressure was at it's highest. I can of about 4 off the top of my head.


Edit: 5

[Megabox!]

Lebron says shit that is so utterly ridiculous sometimes that his stans have no choice but to say utterly ridiculous shit as well in order to properly even be a fan of this guy. Look at the damn responses in this thread.

Deep down these dudes know Lebron is a f*cking ass :oldlol: goodness gracious.


This dude has been in the league how long now, and he's still talking too much
Uhhhhhhh...Exactly what did he say in that post that was so "utterly ridiculous"? He admitted his short comings and wants to better himself in that aspect

[WallIn]

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/cb1k5nrfv2bfk7kgybdu.png

[Megabox!]

at least he admits that he has had mental shortcoming in the past. It has been quite obvious for anyone that has watched his career. He is a frontrunner and performs best when the pressure is off. Either as an underdog or with a comfy advantage in talent.
It's quite obvious you've never seen him play or you're just a dipshit. Probably both

[Gileraracer]

Even I, the bigges Kebron stan ever, have to admit: he's a mental midget :(

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Interpret the last part as you wil, but I tthink LeBron himself knows he ain'tas ggood as Jordan.

Nope, it take's a big man to admit his fears. I like this move by LeBron. Respect:applause:

[guy]

While this is a fun narrative, it's not even close to true.

He's had his best games when the pressure was at it's highest. I can of about 4 off the top of my head.


Edit: 5

So what are the 5? Not saying he hasn't had any. He has. But those have seem to be more like exceptions and what the previous poster said has mostly been the case in his career it seems IMO.

[sdot_thadon]

So what are the 5? Not saying he hasn't had any. He has. But those have seem to be more like exceptions and what the previous poster said has mostly been the case in his career it seems IMO.
Not really, he's had a bunch of big playoff performances, game 5 in the palace, game 6 in the garden, the entire Orlando series in the ecf, game 6 and 7 2013 just to name a few without looking too deep. Also has the highest elimination game average of all time correct? Wouldn't that qualify as a pressure situation? He had what is likely the best finals game 7 ever against the spurs. Speaking of which isn't a game 7 in the finals the highest order of game there is? He has a similar number of postseason game-winners as Mj at this point iirc.

I'd say he's answered the bell far more times than he's underwhelemed, but since it's Lebron we'll just ignore it and follow a hollow narritive.

[DoctorP]

oh, man so fn beta. :lol

[ClipperRevival]

I've always maintained that LeBeta's shortcomings have always come as a result of his crippling fear of failure and competition. But he needs to know that alphas, or the apex predator ala the GOAT, are born not made. Real nigguhs can smell a fugazi coming from a mile away, you can't fake the funk.

12 years into his career and he thinks he can just all of a sudden magically wish away his bitch-made tendencies?

Good luck with that :oldlol:

Yup. You can't fake alpha dog mentality. LeBron is all but admitting what most already knew, that he was afraid of the moment, afraid to fail. GOAT killers LOVE the big stage. Their confidence grows in big moments. His 2011 finals was the ultimate "shrinkage" on the big stage.

[JerrySeinfeld]

2/6 Jordan wannabe :facepalm

A lil' late to be Jordan, that ship sailed in 2011

[guy]

Not really, he's had a bunch of big playoff performances, game 5 in the palace, game 6 in the garden, the entire Orlando series in the ecf, game 6 and 7 2013 just to name a few without looking too deep. Also has the highest elimination game average of all time correct? Wouldn't that qualify as a pressure situation? He had what is likely the best finals game 7 ever against the spurs. Speaking of which isn't a game 7 in the finals the highest order of game there is? He has a similar number of postseason game-winners as Mj at this point iirc.

I'd say he's answered the bell far more times than he's underwhelemed, but since it's Lebron we'll just ignore it and follow a hollow narritive.

He wasn't talking about him just having big playoff games though. Of course he's had that.

[ArbitraryWater]

at least he admits that he has had mental shortcoming in the past. It has been quite obvious for anyone that has watched his career. He is a frontrunner and performs best when the pressure is off. Either as an underdog or with a comfy advantage in talent.

Jeez, how does this shit still get passed around? He's literally the best elimination game player of all time, his numbers in the finals barring 2007 are staggering, and he's had huge games outside of that... there's a good reason his playoff #'s are among the top 4 ever.

[Asukal]

Jeez, how does this shit still get passed around? He's literally the best elimination game player of all time, his numbers in the finals barring 2007 are staggering, and he's had huge games outside of that... there's a good reason his playoff #'s are among the top 4 ever.

Because you only look at stats. The guy under performs every time in crunch time. Last year's finals is a fine enough example, look at how he shrinks when it comes to the 4thQ and overtime. Don't count his garbage time points just the possessions wherein he is supposed to score to save his team. He either misses the shot or turns it over. Lebaldo is a choke god. :whatever:

[Hey Yo]

Because you only look at stats. The guy under performs every time in crunch time. Last year's finals is a fine enough example, look at how he shrinks when it comes to the 4thQ and overtime. Don't count his garbage time points just the possessions wherein he is supposed to score to save his team. He either misses the shot or turns it over. Lebaldo is a choke god. :whatever:
dumb hater is dumb.

[ArbitraryWater]

Because you only look at stats. The guy under performs every time in crunch time. Last year's finals is a fine enough example, look at how he shrinks when it comes to the 4thQ and overtime. Don't count his garbage time points just the possessions wherein he is supposed to score to save his team. He either misses the shot or turns it over. Lebaldo is a choke god. :whatever:

and that isn't a "stat" ? :roll:

If that were true the stats would actually show it :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

He wasn't talking about him just having big playoff games though. Of course he's had that.
Yeah I hear ya, but I'm speaking on people equating that confessed fear to some indicator of failure, when in fact he's done the opposite. The post you responded to is saying what i expalined. He's blasted some major pressure situations Mj never faced and even one that Mj had the exact same situation and folded under. Time for the hollow narrative to stop. He's had some bad moments but there isn't a single guy in the top 10 that hasn't, not one. Nobody holds these failures over the other goat's careers so why should they do it to him? He's one of the best pressure players of all time.

[eeeeeebro]

he better develope that fadeaway then cause jordan was a beast right there. it wasnt his dunks or his good defense it was that unstoppable fade-away

[Dragonyeuw]

He's blasted some major pressure situations Mj never faced and even one that Mj had the exact same situation and folded under. .

I suppose the flipside to that is that MJ in his championship prime took care of business before he needed to face finals game 7s. That said, it does seem like excessive nitpicking of Lebron's shortcomings just for agenda purposes.

[sdot_thadon]

I suppose the flipside to that is that MJ in his championship prime took care of business before he needed to face finals game 7s. That said, it does seem like excessive nitpicking of Lebron's shortcomings just for agenda purposes.
Pretty much my point.

[Paul George 24]

he better develope that fadeaway then cause jordan was a beast right there. it wasnt his dunks or his good defense it was that unstoppable fade-away
GE WON'T,JUST LIKE HE NEVER SHOOT OVER 80FT% :roll:

[Beastmode88]

Lol why lower himself to Jordan's level?

At least if u bet on Jordan u wouldn't lose 1000 bucks. :roll:

[guy]

He's blasted some major pressure situations Mj never faced and even one that Mj had the exact same situation and folded under. Time for the hollow narrative to stop.

What situation was that?

[bluechox2]

hes trying to emulate the fear in jordans opponent

[Wade's Rings]

What situation was that?

The only situation that comes to my mind would be Game 6 vs the Celtics but even then..that happened because of Bron's Epic Choke the year before vs the Mavs. MJ may have never had a moment like that but that moment only happened because of Bron's choking, Mike wasn't choking.

[pauk]

Except for 2011 (Finals only) i never doubted his "fearlessness", im not entirely sure what Lebron talks about, everything else is Jordan simply being more selfish than Lebron... not saying Jordan was selfish (well...) but just surely more selfish than Lebron was, they just had different games... he idolised Jordan but patterned the game after Magic, Penny, Oscar, Hill, Bird etc scorers who were extremly unselfish & some even point-guards.... trying to emulate Jordans offensive mindset/instincts doesnt make sense, those are two completely different gamestyles / offensive mindsets / instincts... Why he finds it hard to play that "fearless" aka. more selfish is because he has always tried to play the game the right way, make the right pass, shot, have things go within the flow of the game, those have been his natural offensive instincts since high school..... Lebron has it in him i think due to his scoring ability, but he will have to change his offensive mindset/instincts completely, starting with chucking 25-30 FGA per game and leaving the Point-Guard / Pass-First job more alone.... something like he did in last Finals...

[theoneneo]

:hammertime: didn't read.... 2/7 in coming

[sdot_thadon]

What situation was that?
Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.

[JT123]

Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.
rat poison. Jordan stans will avoid this post like the plague

[Sarcastic]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538

[sdot_thadon]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538
Perhaps, but if you think lebron is as far inferior as many say here it shouldn't be an issue.

[Indian guy]

LeBron's 2 championships were won under a ridiculous amount of adversity and unprecedented media scrutiny. In 2012, Miami lost Bosh for 9 games in the playoffs and trailed in 3 consecutive playoff series' and still won the championship - only team to do so in NBA history. And look up LeBron's numbers in the 'must-win' games of each of those series' - 40/18/9, 45/15/5, 32/8/5. In the 2013 playoffs, they played in 3 elimination games and LeBron had lines of 32/8/4, 32/10/11 and 37/12/4.

This is the opposite of front-running or being mentally weak. LeBron was pretty much the embodiment of clutch when he won. And look at his over all career - he came in as at he most hyped athlete ever and not only did he match the hype, he actually exceeded it. That screams mentally weak, alright. And no, LeBron certainly wasn't "fearless" and there's nothing wrong with that. MJ and Kobe are the exceptions. LeBron is human and predisposed to fears everybody else is, but character is defined by how you face your challenges/demons, and LeBron's managed to carve out a top 10 career. I think we can agree he did alright.

[Magic 32]

LeBron is human and predisposed to fears everybody else is

Lebron's fear isn't like anyone else's though.

His fear is that he isn't going to be seen as the greatest thing that ever walked the earth.

He was "the chosen one". The savior of the world.

If that's your goal you better be mentally "fearless".

[guy]

Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.

So are you taking into account that one faced a much tougher opponent and had a much tougher road to the finals? The 89 Pistons are more like the 07 Spurs or 08 Celtics who beat Lebron's Cavs, not the 07 Pistons. Its not the exact same scenario. But to be fair, its hard to get to an "exact same scenario" for any two players. But with that said, it doesn't make sense to point out how this was something Jordan didn't do as an argument for Lebron.

As far as the bigger point goes, Lebron as one of the best playoff pressure players of all-time? I don't know. On one hand he's capable of having some of the greatest playoff performances under pressure ever i.e. 2007 ECF G5, 2012 ECF G6, 2013 Finals G7. On the other hand, he's had maybe just as many historically terrible playoff performances under pressure for someone of his standards as well i.e. 2007 Finals, 2010 ECSF G5, 2011 Finals. Its almost like you don't know what you're going to get with him in a pressure situation the higher the stakes are. One extreme or the other is equally likely. If you just remove those terrible performances, he definitely is. And to be fair, maybe we should cut him some slack and take into account that he might have a larger sample size of those situations then a lot of other superstars and no one's been under the microscope like him i.e. someone like Hakeem doesn't have those terrible performances but he also lost in the first round or didn't make the playoffs for like 5 years in a row and didn't have the same expectations like Lebron so he wasn't in the same situation as much.

So I don't know. What I do know is for the standards he's measured against i.e. GOAT, Jordan, etc. he's not really lived up to expectations as far as performing under pressure goes. And he's basically admitted that in this article.

[sdot_thadon]

So are you taking into account that one faced a much tougher opponent and had a much tougher road to the finals? The 89 Pistons are more like the 07 Spurs or 08 Celtics who beat Lebron's Cavs, not the 07 Pistons. Its not the exact same scenario. But to be fair, its hard to get to an "exact same scenario" for any two players. But with that said, it doesn't make sense to point out how this was something Jordan didn't do as an argument for Lebron.

As far as the bigger point goes, Lebron as one of the best playoff pressure players of all-time? I don't know. On one hand he's capable of having some of the greatest playoff performances under pressure ever i.e. 2007 ECF G5, 2012 ECF G6, 2013 Finals G7. On the other hand, he's had maybe just as many historically terrible playoff performances under pressure for someone of his standards as well i.e. 2007 Finals, 2010 ECSF G5, 2011 Finals. Its almost like you don't know what you're going to get with him in a pressure situation the higher the stakes are. One extreme or the other is equally likely. If you just remove those terrible performances, he definitely is. And to be fair, maybe we should cut him some slack and take into account that he might have a larger sample size of those situations then a lot of other superstars and no one's been under the microscope like him i.e. someone like Hakeem doesn't have those terrible performances but he also lost in the first round or didn't make the playoffs for like 5 years in a row and didn't have the same expectations like Lebron so he wasn't in the same situation as much.

So I don't know. What I do know is for the standards he's measured against i.e. GOAT, Jordan, etc. he's not really lived up to expectations as far as performing under pressure goes. And he's basically admitted that in this article.
You can nitpick quality and what not, but it's pretty close man. Both were going against the team that was THE roadblock for them. A top 3 to 5 defense without even needing to check. Of course they weren't the 04 pistons, but if you watched actively back then they owned the Cavs up to that point. As I responded to an earlier post if you're of the ilk that believes Lebron to be far inferior then it shouldn't really be an issue. Also you open quite the can of worms, the 89 pistons were also much better than the 91 version of the team.

Back to the meat of the discussion, u disagree with the notion that he's some big game failure. Lebron has had more good games than bad, the only reason guys hold on to his failures longer is this era of fans are totally different. New breed. For every bad game or series you mention, how many spectacular ones has he had on the flip side? He's shined in some pretty dire situations and had a great game in the ultimate basketball game, game 7 of the finals. I'm not sure what more you want from dude aside from replicating MJ's career 1:1, which isn't happening and isn't the only path to goat.

[sd3035]

I think it's a bit late

A career choker isn't going to suddenly become a killer when he's rapidly declining

[plowking]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538

Yep, he just had his team carry him in closeouts while shooting 5-19.

[guy]

You can nitpick quality and what not, but it's pretty close man. Both were going against the team that was THE roadblock for them. A top 3 to 5 defense without even needing to check. Of course they weren't the 04 pistons, but if you watched actively back then they owned the Cavs up to that point. As I responded to an earlier post if you're of the ilk that believes Lebron to be far inferior then it shouldn't really be an issue. Also you open quite the can of worms, the 89 pistons were also much better than the 91 version of the team.

Pretty close? I think most reasonable people would agree that if 07 Lebron and 89 Jordan switched places, with minor adjustments for positional differences the 89 Bulls w/Lebron are still not getting past the 89 Pistons and the 07 Cavs would still get past the 07 Pistons. So with that being the case, it is not close enough for this to be considered the EXACT SAME SCENARIO.

I don't understand how Lebron's inferiority is supposed to mean anything when you are trying to put the two on the same level and say Lebron did something that Jordan failed at.

The 89 Pistons were better then the 91 Pistons. Who's arguing that? I don't see the point.



Back to the meat of the discussion, u disagree with the notion that he's some big game failure. Lebron has had more good games than bad, the only reason guys hold on to his failures longer is this era of fans are totally different. New breed. For every bad game or series you mention, how many spectacular ones has he had on the flip side? He's shined in some pretty dire situations and had a great game in the ultimate basketball game, game 7 of the finals. I'm not sure what more you want from dude aside from replicating MJ's career 1:1, which isn't happening and isn't the only path to goat.

I didn't talk about just merely good games and bad games. Of course he's had more good games then bad games. If he didn't, he wouldn't even be considered a good player. :oldlol: But for every all-time great performance he's arguably had just as many all-time terrible performances (for his standards) or at least not a great ratio.

Barring a miracle, the GOAT ship has sailed. He's on the decline at this point so I don't see how anyone can envision an argument.

[sdot_thadon]

Pretty close? I think most reasonable people would agree that if 07 Lebron and 89 Jordan switched places, with minor adjustments for positional differences the 89 Bulls w/Lebron are still not getting past the 89 Pistons and the 07 Cavs would still get past the 07 Pistons. So with that being the case, it is not close enough for this to be considered the EXACT SAME SCENARIO.
I'm not really sure and don't know how you yourself can be so certain of these hypotheticals you present. You basically guarantee that lebron can't mimic or outdo mj in his position but at the same time are 100% percent sure Mj will recreate an alltime great performance that no one else has..........:rolleyes:



I don't understand how Lebron's inferiority is supposed to mean anything when you are trying to put the two on the same level and say Lebron did something that Jordan failed at.

The 89 Pistons were better then the 91 Pistons. Who's arguing that? I don't see the point.

The point is if Lebron is far inferior(in your opinion) then why should it matter if he did it against supposed inferior comp? That pretty much means it balances out and is a very moot point. The thing about the 91 team is nitpicking can work both ways.



I didn't talk about just merely good games and bad games. Of course he's had more good games then bad games. If he didn't, he wouldn't even be considered a good player. :oldlol: But for every all-time great performance he's arguably had just as many all-time terrible performances (for his standards) or at least not a great ratio.

Barring a miracle, the GOAT ship has sailed. He's on the decline at this point so I don't see how anyone can envision an argument.
So you mean to tell me you quoted and responded to a post you didn't read? The guy stated he's had some of the best pressure games ever basically and you questioned it. I said it in a previous post and several others have as well, he's buried that narrative long ago. And in the biggest and baddest situations that you could face as a superstar in his position.

I don't really care for the whole lebron goat discussion and whether or not he has a shot, it's not really wise as his career is still going. You forget Mj won half of his chips after 30, it's way too early to talk. Just know he's moving up in the discussion and enjoy seeing a top 10 guy live.

[WadeBronDonJuan]

It doesn't matter if LeBron wins this year and has an impressive season. You trolls are going to still find problems with it and are going to still talk trash. You'll probably put 2.5 out of seven this time around if he does win. If he doesn't you'll have a field day with that as well. You're all just a bunch of neck beards sitting in your chair is of your mothers basement talking trash on one of the all-time greatest NBA players.

[sportjames23]

It doesn't matter if LeBron wins this year and has an impressive season. You trolls are going to still find problems with it and are going to still talk trash. You'll probably put 2.5 out of seven this time around if he does win. If he doesn't you'll have a field day with that as well. You're all just a bunch of neck beards sitting in your chair is of your mothers basement talking trash on one of the all-time greatest NBA players.


Someone mad as ****. :oldlol:

[WadeBronDonJuan]

Someone mad as ****. :oldlol:

I'm fine. You're the guy that spends his free time bashing millionaire basketball players on a small time message board.

[guy]

I'm not really sure and don't know how you yourself can be so certain of these hypotheticals you present. You basically guarantee that lebron can't mimic or outdo mj in his position but at the same time are 100% percent sure Mj will recreate an alltime great performance that no one else has..........:rolleyes:


Saying "most reasonable would agree" = "guarantee"? And using context in a basketball discussion = nitpicking? Convenient :oldlol:

You're right, Jordan has never had an alltime great performance :rolleyes: Sarcasm aside, who says Jordan would have to have that exact same performance at that time? Who says the series is exactly like it was up until that point?

Here's a little secret that no one seems to remember about Lebron's 07 run: It really wasn't that great. He wasn't really having a great series outside of that game 5, and he wasn't really having a great playoff run outside that game 5. Out of playoff runs that went into at least the conference finals, every Jordan playoff run was better, and every other Lebron playoff run other then 2011, which mainly because of an historically epic choke, was better. And you think competition has nothing to do with them getting to the Finals that year and it was close enough to every other year?

Forget Jordan. Lets look at Lebron in his first stint with the Cavs. He was clearly a better player in from 08-10 then he was in 07. His supporting cast was clearly better from 09-10 and arguably 08 then it was in 07. But in 07, they made the Finals, and from 08-10 they couldn't. What could be the reason you think? Could it be that maybe the 08 Celtics, 09 Magic, and 10 Celtics were that much better then the 07 Pistons? (Of course Lebron choked in 10 too, which has something to do with it, but the competition probably had something to do with that.) The next few years after 07 weren't close enough. And you're going to argue that nearly 20 years apart it was close enough? :oldlol:



The point is if Lebron is far inferior(in your opinion) then why should it matter if he did it against supposed inferior comp? That pretty much means it balances out and is a very moot point. The thing about the 91 team is nitpicking can work both ways.


Umm, when we're comparing players, we aren't handicapping them. So cause 89 Jordan > 07 Lebron, 89 Pistons > 07 Pistons, that means 07 Lebron doing what he did against the 07 Pistons is just as impressive as if 89 Jordan did the same thing against the 89 Pistons? What sense does that make?

Well if you want to argue that the 91 Pistons are better then the 89 Pistons, no one would argue. Its also obvious that the 91 Bulls were better then the 89 Bulls. Both are pretty much undeniable, despite any concrete proof. So I don't see your point. If the 91 Bulls beat the 89 Pistons, it would've been more impressive. Oh well. Rarely do you actually ever see two all-time great teams face each other at their peaks.



So you mean to tell me you quoted and responded to a post you didn't read? The guy stated he's had some of the best pressure games ever basically and you questioned it. I said it in a previous post and several others have as well, he's buried that narrative long ago. And in the biggest and baddest situations that you could face as a superstar in his position.


I never said he hasn't had some of the best pressure games ever. I said I'm not sure I would call him one of the greatest pressure player ever, not because of those all-time great performances he's had but because he has some historically terrible pressure performances that drags that status down. With that said, I basically said its somewhat semantics and based on how you look at it.



I don't really care for the whole lebron goat discussion and whether or not he has a shot, it's not really wise as his career is still going. You forget Mj won half of his chips after 30, it's way too early to talk. Just know he's moving up in the discussion and enjoy seeing a top 10 guy live.

Jordan being better then Lebron has more to do with just rings and we've already seen enough of Lebron, who's probably on the decline, to say he's not on the same level. I don't know how much longer you expect him to play to say its too early to talk. Definitely a great top 5-10 player of all-time like you said though.

[sdot_thadon]

Saying "most reasonable would agree" = "guarantee"? And using context in a basketball discussion = nitpicking? Convenient :oldlol:

You're right, Jordan has never had an alltime great performance :rolleyes: Sarcasm aside, who says Jordan would have to have that exact same performance at that time? Who says the series is exactly like it was up until that point?

Here's a little secret that no one seems to remember about Lebron's 07 run: It really wasn't that great. He wasn't really having a great series outside of that game 5, and he wasn't really having a great playoff run outside that game 5. Out of playoff runs that went into at least the conference finals, every Jordan playoff run was better, and every other Lebron playoff run other then 2011, which mainly because of an historically epic choke, was better. And you think competition has nothing to do with them getting to the Finals that year and it was close enough to every other year?

Forget Jordan. Lets look at Lebron in his first stint with the Cavs. He was clearly a better player in from 08-10 then he was in 07. His supporting cast was clearly better from 09-10 and arguably 08 then it was in 07. But in 07, they made the Finals, and from 08-10 they couldn't. What could be the reason you think? Could it be that maybe the 08 Celtics, 09 Magic, and 10 Celtics were that much better then the 07 Pistons? (Of course Lebron choked in 10 too, which has something to do with it, but the competition probably had something to do with that.) The next few years after 07 weren't close enough. And you're going to argue that nearly 20 years apart it was close enough? :oldlol:



Umm, when we're comparing players, we aren't handicapping them. So cause 89 Jordan > 07 Lebron, 89 Pistons > 07 Pistons, that means 07 Lebron doing what he did against the 07 Pistons is just as impressive as if 89 Jordan did the same thing against the 89 Pistons? What sense does that make?

Well if you want to argue that the 91 Pistons are better then the 89 Pistons, no one would argue. Its also obvious that the 91 Bulls were better then the 89 Bulls. Both are pretty much undeniable, despite any concrete proof. So I don't see your point. If the 91 Bulls beat the 89 Pistons, it would've been more impressive. Oh well. Rarely do you actually ever see two all-time great teams face each other at their peaks.



I never said he hasn't had some of the best pressure games ever. I said I'm not sure I would call him one of the greatest pressure player ever, not because of those all-time great performances he's had but because he has some historically terrible pressure performances that drags that status down. With that said, I basically said its somewhat semantics and based on how you look at it.



Jordan being better then Lebron has more to do with just rings and we've already seen enough of Lebron, who's probably on the decline, to say he's not on the same level. I don't know how much longer you expect him to play to say its too early to talk. Definitely a great top 5-10 player of all-time like you said though.
I'm disappointed, you are one of the better jordan fans here but I can't believe you took the long way around to basically say that. You questioned what big games there were like you didn't know, then basically discredit every thing placed in front of you and replace actual events with bs hypotheticals. I didn't initiate this in a what if manner and I'd expect you to follow suit. It is what it is, he's done those things. And I didn't have to reach or stretch anything Mj did face the same situation, there's a reason really no Mj fans will touch that game when it comes up.

[guy]

I'm disappointed, you are one of the better jordan fans here but I can't believe you took the long way around to basically say that. You questioned what big games there were like you didn't know, then basically discredit every thing placed in front of you and replace actual events with bs hypotheticals. I didn't initiate this in a what if manner and I'd expect you to follow suit. It is what it is, he's done those things. And I didn't have to reach or stretch anything Mj did face the same situation, there's a reason really no Mj fans will touch that game when it comes up.

Long way to say what I've been saying the whole time? :oldlol:

It was a bad game, something you can call a choke, not really something regarding a fear of failure though if you knew the backstory. So that's like 1 for Jordan and at least like 6 for Lebron :oldlol: that's probably why no one really talks about it. Cause the argument is still so lopsided in that aspect.

Well I'm sorry that you are a simpleton and can't take context into account in a normal basketball discussion :oldlol: Take the L if you can't stick to basketball and respond to my points. No one cares about your disappointment. :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

Long way to say what I've been saying the whole time? :oldlol:

It was a bad game, something you can call a choke, not really something regarding a fear of failure though if you knew the backstory. So that's like 1 for Jordan and at least like 6 for Lebron :oldlol: that's probably why no one really talks about it. Cause the argument is still so lopsided in that aspect.

Well I'm sorry that you are a simpleton and can't take context into account in a normal basketball discussion :oldlol: Take the L if you can't stick to basketball and respond to my points. No one cares about your disappointment. :oldlol:
Oh you mad now bitch? You asked a question, got an answer you didn't like and started back pedaling like a bitch and moving goalposts. Call it context all you want but it's pretty convenient when it only goes one way. I've responded to your points already bro, they're nothing but irrelevant side tangents to get around the original point of the discussion. Your bitch ass salty because you can't refute the truth.

Lebron had a big game in as close a match to an exact basketball situation as you can get with 2 completely different careers. Mj couldn't and didn't deliver in the same scenario.

Here's a bonus, this is the bulls beat writer take on the game 5.
[QUOTE]The power struggle between Jordan and Collins was never more evident than in the 1990 playoffs against Detroit. In the fifth game of the conference finals, Jordan attempted just 8 shots; the Bulls lost, and were eliminated at home in the next game. Questions flew at Jordan and Collins after the game, only to be met by the standard response about double-teaming tactics. But Collins and Jordan knew otherwise. The coach had told Jordan he was shooting too much; he had taken 31 percent of the team

[guy]

Oh you mad now bitch? You asked a question, got an answer you didn't like and started back pedaling like a bitch and moving goalposts. Call it context all you want but it's pretty convenient when it only goes one way. I've responded to your points already bro, they're nothing but irrelevant side tangents to get around the original point of the discussion. Your bitch ass salty because you can't refute the truth.

Lebron had a big game in as close a match to an exact basketball situation as you can get with 2 completely different careers. Mj couldn't and didn't deliver in the same scenario.

Here's a bonus, this is the bulls beat writer take on the game 5.

If you take his perspective it's even worse.


Never said that perspective or another was worse. It was a very immature move on Jordan's part and easily the worst thing he's done in his career.

You didnt respond to any of my valid points about context. All you did was ignore it and call it nitpicking. Probably cause you didn't have an argument. You couldn't even admit that Jordan had tougher competition or even acknowledge that Lebron had tougher competition in the following years which had a lot to do with him not replicating the same success despite his and his own teams improvement.

No ones mad. You're the one disappointed. So wipe your tears and take the L you emotional bitch. :oldlol:

[sdot_thadon]

Never said that perspective or another was worse. It was a very immature move on Jordan's part and easily the worst thing he's done in his career.

You didnt respond to any of my valid points about context. All you did was ignore it and call it nitpicking. Probably cause you didn't have an argument. You couldn't even admit that Jordan had tougher competition or even acknowledge that Lebron had tougher competition in the following years which had a lot to do with him not replicating the same success despite his and his own teams improvement.

No ones mad. You're the one disappointed. So wipe your tears and take the L you emotional bitch. :oldlol:
None of that shit was valid it was just beating around the bush of what you really wanted to say, get to the point bro. You bring up competition level, they both faced the 1 seed in the conference finals. Can't do any better than that. And again if you feel Mj is way better than Mj should have beaten a higher quality team. Why shouldn't he have? He's god right? You also choose to attempt at discrediting the performance by saying the series wasn't that good. It only bolsters the claim of exactly how good and under pressure Lebron's game 5 was you nitwit. Also you keep reaching for something while drowning in this debate, oh oh oh he played better teams in future years....yeah dipshit, he also performed even better from a series standpoint in those years you wish to site. It's stupid and pointless. That's why I didn't respond to the shit, because it's toast that easily. And worst of all none of that shit changes my original point nor the guy you quoted. Here's some napkins, clean yourself up.:coleman:

[Straight_Ballin]

Bran fans taking another loss with their idol claiming that he will never be as good as his life long hero, Michael Jordan.

[sdot_thadon]

Bran fans taking another loss with their idol claiming that he will never be as good as his life long hero, Michael Jordan.
Oh the irony

[guy]

None of that shit was valid it was just beating around the bush of what you really wanted to say, get to the point bro. You bring up competition level, they both faced the 1 seed in the conference finals. Can't do any better than that. And again if you feel Mj is way better than Mj should have beaten a higher quality team. Why shouldn't he have? He's god right? You also choose to attempt at discrediting the performance by saying the series wasn't that good. It only bolsters the claim of exactly how good and under pressure Lebron's game 5 was you nitwit. Also you keep reaching for something while drowning in this debate, oh oh oh he played better teams in future years....yeah dipshit, he also performed even better from a series standpoint in those years you wish to site. It's stupid and pointless. That's why I didn't respond to the shit, because it's toast that easily. And worst of all none of that shit changes my original point nor the guy you quoted. Here's some napkins, clean yourself up.:coleman:

I never discredited the performance. In fact I said its one of the greatest clutch performances ever, multiple times in fact. I said him making the finals in a historically weak conference wasn't a fair comparison that should give Lebron some sort of leg up as something he did that no one else did and that he wasn't that good, relatively speaking of course, outside of that game for the whole series and playoff run. Check the numbers and check what people were saying back then leading up to that game 5.

Obviously you can't comprehend that not every 1 seed in history is the same. And if you couldn't understand the connection I was trying to make with 1989 and the years following 07, which you obviously couldn't, and you just decide to get emotional about it, forget it. Agree to disagree.

[Straight_Ballin]

Oh the irony

What irony, the irony of you making random statements despite the fact that bron is 2/6 and couldn't match his idol Jordan?

[Soundwave]

This isn't exactly news to anyone who knows what they're talking about. LeBron is a great player, Jordan was simply better because he was mentally much stronger.

Even LeBron acknowledges that.

[Straight_Ballin]

This isn't exactly news to anyone who knows what they're talking about. LeBron is a great player, Jordan was simply better because he was mentally much stronger.

Even LeBron acknowledges that.

But why couldn't bron get a life coach or some shit and build up his mental strength? You are gifted with all the tools to be great and you allow mental weakness to be your downfall? That's called letting an entire era of fans down. Jordan put an entire era on his back and remained mentally tough!

[Soundwave]

But why couldn't bron get a life coach or some shit and build up his mental strength? You are gifted with all the tools to be great and you allow mental weakness to be your downfall? That's called letting an entire era of fans down. Jordan put an entire era on his back and remained mentally tough!

To a degree ... no. It can't be taught. Once you're like 30 too ... lol, it is what it is.

[Straight_Ballin]

To a degree ... no. It can't be taught. Once you're like 30 too ... lol, it is what it is.

I meant he should have began seeking to build his mental toughness as soon as he discovered it was an issue. How the fvck does a player not understand that Jordan's mental toughness is was made him so great?

[sportjames23]

I meant he should have began seeking to build his mental toughness as soon as he discovered it was an issue. How the fvck does a player not understand that Jordan's mental toughness is was made him so great?


I think it's just the culture today. Bron's not the only star like this. Hell, look at Peyton Manning. Same as Lebron--hyped to be the GOAT, had all the tools, but came up short time and again. And also like Lebron, a losing record in the championship game/series.

Players were just mentally tougher back in the day. MJ wasn't the only athlete who was tough mentally. Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith, Magic, Bird, Gretzky, Super Mario, Ali, Russell, etc. Dudes were just tough back then. Many stars today are just soft.

[dubeta]

I meant he should have began seeking to build his mental toughness as soon as he discovered it was an issue. How the fvck does a player not understand that Jordan's mental toughness is was made him so great?

How great was that mental toughness when he went 1-9?

[Straight_Ballin]

I think it's just the culture today. Bron's not the only star like this. Hell, look at Peyton Manning. Same as Lebron--hyped to be the GOAT, had all the tools, but came up short time and again. And also like Lebron, a losing record in the championship game/series.

Players were just mentally tougher back in the day. MJ wasn't the only athlete who was tough mentally. Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith, Magic, Bird, Gretzky, Super Mario, Ali, Russell, etc. Dudes were just tough back then. Many stars today are just soft.

The softness goes right down to the kids playing little league and their coaches. A guy I know got in his kid's coach's face screaming at him asking why did his son bring home a trophy when his son's team LOST.

He just kept yelling right in tye coache's ear "TROPHY's ARE FOR WINNER's" take this shit back!!!

Soft ass current era.....

[Straight_Ballin]

How great was that mental toughness when he went 1-9?

Tougher than 2/6. At least when he had a team good enough around him he used mental toughness when it counted.

6/6

[sportjames23]

How great was that mental toughness when he went 1-9?


Better than going 0-2. Y'know, when Lebron failed to make the playoffs his first two seasons?