Better peak: Chris Paul or Steph Curry (so far)

[IGOTGAME]

this is a very interesting question because Paul was the old pick challenge for greatest non-Magic pg. But in the new post 2010 NBA we see that he may not be all that we want in a point guard. On the other hand in Curry's short career he has already won a title and an MVP.

Tough choice...2007-2008 CP3 vs 2014-2015 Step Curry.

[Wade's Rings]

Cp3 Imo

[Fallen Angel]

Not tough at all, Chris Paul was better.

[Achilleas]

curry is better

[FreezingTsmoove]

Cp is at his peak right now. He has led the number one offense in the entire league every year under Doc

[IGOTGAME]

Cp is at his peak right now. He has led the number one offense in the entire league every year under Doc

2008 CP3 was a lot better than this version. He is a better game manager now and can get his points comfortable each quarter with good percentages but he lacks the ability to go to that next gear bc of the knee surgery.

2008 CP3 was a much more explosive player and a better defender.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Cp is at his peak right now. He has led the number one offense in the entire league every year under Doc

Where has he led them to exactly?

Have they even made a WCF?

[SHAQisGOAT]

I don't know man, Curry has a MVP, a ring but Chris Paul at his best was a savage... In terms of judging them as overall players I'd give the edge to CP3 but I don't think he would've done as well in place of Steph with last year's Warriors.

[Fallen Angel]

I don't think he would've done as well in place of Steph with last year's Warriors.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKiV6DMUEAArOKs.jpg

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

2008 CP3 was a lot better than this version. He is a better game manager now and can get his points comfortable each quarter with good percentages but he lacks the ability to go to that next gear bc of the knee surgery.

2008 CP3 was a much more explosive player and a better defender.
CP3 now is clearly a better defender than hornets days. His D was very good back then but in past couple years he's been one if the best perimeter defenders in basket. He wasn't at that level in 08 defensively. His shooting is better now too he has one of the best midrange shits ever now, pullup game alltime strong

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

AMC . He does not choke out of 2nd round every year.:rockon: :rockon:

[Smoke117]

CP3 before the knee injury was a far superior player to Curry. He's still a better player now, regardless. If you don't understand how great a basketball player Chris Paul is...you frankly just don't know anything about basketball.

[IGOTGAME]

CP3 now is clearly a better defender than hornets days. His D was very good back then but in past couple years he's been one if the best perimeter defenders in basket. He wasn't at that level in 08 defensively. His shooting is better now too he has one of the best midrange shits ever now, pullup game alltime strong

but he has a harder time getting those shots off than he used to becasue of the lack of quickness compared to his former self. That is why when the team needs Paul to get his he isnt always able to do it. Old CP3 was able to do it.

Old CP3 also had elite movement and was able to stay in front of very quick guards. New CP3 is slower and has to gamble more and he is very good at it. I still prefer the CP3 with better ability to move his feet.

I prefer the 2008 version. That version has an argument for best point guard ever after Magic. He was really frickin good...this version isn't even best point guard in the league. 2008 CP3 would have had a lot more to counter Curry, instead Curry made a fool of 2015 CP3.

[dhsilv]

Best year for each advance stats for each player.

Kinda ugly so I'll apologize. I need to get better with pretty graphs.

http://i.imgur.com/WPWWou4.jpg

This might be better to look at.

http://i.imgur.com/k5fndxU.jpg

Both graphs follow with what I'd have expected. From a stats stand point Paul is the better player and by a lot as far as peaks go. However, I'm not sure it's that simple. Curry draws defenses way better than Paul. Also Paul's best years stacked up against some of Lebron and Kobe's best. So I'm not sure if those were just great years for top level players or if it was more a fluke. Clearly 2015 Curry was the best player or right there with Harden as far as regular season play goes. The per minute stuff favors Curry so I'd favor him given also how absurdly good that team was with him on the court.

[Rocketswin2013]

2009 Paul was a step up at everything from 2008.

It's closer than that. I think Curry is a bit better.

[Fallen Angel]

is that graph backwards?

[feyki]

Curry .

[FreezingTsmoove]

Where has he led them to exactly?

Have they even made a WCF?

Im just pointing out a fact to help other posters make a decision

[dhsilv]

is that graph backwards?

It's best worst seasons. The line graph was a bad idea. But again best to worst. And for each stat, so it's not same years. I wanted to just see best to worst in the stats with that. I can mess with it some if you'd like ti see it differently or with other data.

[IGOTGAME]

Hold up hoss...so people think its actually a debate as to Paul's peak year. This used to be established around here.

[Fallen Angel]

It's funny how people forgot that Steph Curry won his MVP award mainly because of his team record. Curry's Warriors are easily better than Paul's Hornets.

Chris Paul was the better individual player.

[dhsilv]

Hold up hoss...so people think its actually a debate as to Paul's peak year. This used to be established around here.

Unless you're going to tell me the team being better in 08 was chris pual playing better and not his teammates still having gas in the tank/were just better I'm a bit at a loss how you'd take 08 over 09.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

2009 Paul was a step up at everything from 2008.

It's closer than that. I think Curry is a bit better.
Not playoffs

[inclinerator]

little beta-boy curry does not even compare

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

but he has a harder time getting those shots off than he used to becasue of the lack of quickness compared to his former self. That is why when the team needs Paul to get his he isnt always able to do it. Old CP3 was able to do it.

Old CP3 also had elite movement and was able to stay in front of very quick guards. New CP3 is slower and has to gamble more and he is very good at it. I still prefer the CP3 with better ability to move his feet.

I prefer the 2008 version. That version has an argument for best point guard ever after Magic. He was really frickin good...this version isn't even best point guard in the league. 2008 CP3 would have had a lot more to counter Curry, instead Curry made a fool of 2015 CP3.
I agree 08 is his peak but there are aspects of his game he is better at now

[greatest-ever]

Both are a little overrated, but i go with Curry. Simply much better scorer. It is pretty close though. Let me say though, i never buy when people use Cp3's defense in comparisons. He's 5'11, the defensive impact from someone that small is limited.

[DaOldLion]

It's funny how people forgot that Steph Curry won his MVP award mainly because of his team record. Curry's Warriors are easily better than Paul's Hornets.

Chris Paul was the better individual player.

and is Curry not the main reason for the Warriors having a great team?

Paul plays with one of the best players in the league and can't get out of the 2nd round to save his life.

in 08 Paul led his team to the worst playoff loss of all time, on his home court he let Melo's nuggets beat the Hornets by 60 points,

Paul consistently over dribbles, hesitates too much and is always looking to make the "assist [pass" and not always the best pass.

Curry does thing on the offensive end that Paul can't do, Paul on this Warriors team isn't getting out of the second round, they would have won 55 games in the regular season and lost to the Rockets in the second round... just like he did this year while having a better player (Griffin) beside him.

Paul these days isn't even the undisputed best player on his team.. still can't make the conference finals..

[IGOTGAME]

Unless you're going to tell me the team being better in 08 was chris pual playing better and not his teammates still having gas in the tank/were just better I'm a bit at a loss how you'd take 08 over 09.

you mean the year he had to sit out with a knee injury for over a month and then came back(played only 45 games) and played worst. yea, ill go with 2008 Paul.

[dhsilv]

It's funny how people forgot that Steph Curry won his MVP award mainly because of his team record. Curry's Warriors are easily better than Paul's Hornets.

Chris Paul was the better individual player.

Curry was first in VORP, WS/48. Second in WS and BPM (westbrook was ahead but with a lot less games played). He was third in PER to Westbrook and Davis who both played meaningfully less games than him.

He had MVP numbers if you're talking stats. His per games numbers actually suffered because his team was so good he sat out 4th quarters most of the year.

I'm still going with paul, but lets not act like he wasn't by most stats the best player last year. He didn't steal the MVP even if I'd have likely given it to harden by a hair.

[Young X]

I'm not even convinced Curry was better last season.

CP3 ran the best offense in the league and was one of the best defenders at his position. The only reason the Warriors were better than the Clippers was their defense which wasn't because of Curry. I thought they were real close last season and that wasn't even CP's peak as a player.

I don't think people realize how great of a player CP is. I can't name 5 PG's that have played at a higher level on both ends. Curry isn't one of them.

[dhsilv]

you mean the year he had to sit out with a knee injury for over a month and then came back(played only 45 games) and played worst. yea, ill go with 2008 Paul.

09....78 games and 3002 minutes played.
08....80 games and 3006 minutes played.

I believe you're talking about 2010...

[IGOTGAME]

and is Curry not the main reason for the Warriors having a great team?

Paul plays with one of the best players in the league and can't get out of the 2nd round to save his life.

in 08 Paul led his team to the worst playoff loss of all time, on his home court he let Melo's nuggets beat the Hornets by 60 points,

Paul consistently over dribbles, hesitates too much and is always looking to make the "assist [pass" and not always the best pass.

Curry does thing on the offensive end that Paul can't do, Paul on this Warriors team isn't getting out of the second round

this is dumb post. Paul was never surrounded by the talent Curry is surrounded by. I'm pretty sure 2008 Curry wins a title with the Warriors. Also, 2008 Paul was very different than this version...more willing and able to be aggressive offensively.

Also, Curry was never put in the position Paul was in...he has never been relied upon like Paul was. Curry can go through long periods of silence but those teams relied on CP3 for everything on offense. Curry isnt even always the primary ball handler on GS

[IGOTGAME]

09....78 games and 3002 minutes played.
08....80 games and 3006 minutes played.

I believe you're talking about 2010...

my fault. memory is getting pretty bad :cheers:

I don't have much memory of that year from him besides the Nuggets series. I do have a vivid memory of the 2008 year tho. I'll have to watch some games of him from that year.

[dhsilv]

and is Curry not the main reason for the Warriors having a great team?

Paul plays with one of the best players in the league and can't get out of the 2nd round to save his life.

in 08 Paul led his team to the worst playoff loss of all time, on his home court he let Melo's nuggets beat the Hornets by 60 points,

Paul consistently over dribbles, hesitates too much and is always looking to make the "assist [pass" and not always the best pass.

Curry does thing on the offensive end that Paul can't do, Paul on this Warriors team isn't getting out of the second round, they would have won 55 games in the regular season and lost to the Rockets in the second round... just like he did this year while having a better player (Griffin) beside him.

Paul these days isn't even the undisputed best player on his team.. still can't make the conference finals..

2008 paul played the mavs in the first round and won 4-1, the one loss being by 10. Then they took the spurs 7 games which did include a 20 point loss.

2009 is the year you're thinking. That team around him was pretty bad. David West after looking like an all nba guy suddenly wasn't the same. Peja was basically done. Chandler was gone. That team he had sucked. I'll give you he wasn't great either in that series. 16.6 and 10 isn't going to cut it...

[tmacattack33]

CP3 in 2008 and 2009 before injury.

And it isn't too hard of a decision. I mean, 2015 Paul vs 2015 Curry was pretty close...so 2008 CP3 takes this easily.

[DaOldLion]

I'm not even convinced Curry was better last season.

CP3 ran the best offense in the league and was one of the best defenders at his position. The only reason the Warriors were better than the Clippers was their defense which wasn't because of Curry. I thought they were real close last season and that wasn't even CP's peak as a player.

I don't think people realize how great of a player CP is. I can't name 5 PG's that have played at a higher level on both ends. Curry isn't one of them.

So he can lead them to the best offense but can't lead them to the second round after getting a 3-1 lead..

his team was good enough to almost go up 2-0 on the Rockets without Paul.. they won a road game with out Paul.. that shows how great of a team he has around him..

Curry is better offensively, defenses don't react to Paul the way they react to Curry, he's a better shooter, a better leader, and a his spacing creates so many opportunities for his team, not to mention his ability to play off ball at an elite level just puts him over the top

and Curry hardly ever over dribbles while Paul constantly does

you can't construct a team around Paul like you can around Curry - that's the biggest difference, you couldn't construct a team like the Warriors have with Paul as your best player.. it wouldn't work..

teams have spent 10 years trying to construct a successful team around Paul and it has gotten them nowhere, Paul has all the help he needs and still can't get it done in the playoffs

[dhsilv]

my fault. memory is getting pretty bad :cheers:

I don't have much memory of that year from him besides the Nuggets series. I do have a vivid memory of the 2008 year tho. I'll have to watch some games of him from that year.


http://i.imgur.com/nlUfyHw.jpg

Seasons of VORP of 9 or better, PER of 30 or better, BPM 10 or better and WS over 15.

Just going to VORP of 10 does msoto f this but this adds Lebron's 2013 year. Meh I wanted more people on here but whatever.

Just to show the stats. for Paul that year and where it stacks up.

[DaOldLion]

this is dumb post. Paul was never surrounded by the talent Curry is surrounded by. I'm pretty sure 2008 Curry wins a title with the Warriors. Also, 2008 Paul was very different than this version...more willing and able to be aggressive offensively.

Also, Curry was never put in the position Paul was in...he has never been relied upon like Paul was. Curry can go through long periods of silence but those teams relied on CP3 for everything on offense. Curry isnt even always the primary ball handler on GS

this post is terrible :facepalm


Paul was never surrounded by the talent Curry is surrounded by.

Paul has the best PF in the league, Griffin put up 26/13/6 in the playoffs.. who does Curry have that can do that? Paul has Deandre Jordan, one the best defensive bigs in the league and an alll nba team center, those two guys + a deep team with a great coach.. he has PLENTY of help


I'm pretty sure 2008 Curry wins a title with the Warriors.

no he wouldn't this team was built around having the GOAT shooter, something Paul is not, he doesn't have anywhere near the shot creating ability for himself that Curry has


Also, Curry was never put in the position Paul was in...he has never been relied upon like Paul was. Curry can go through long periods of silence but those teams relied on CP3 for everything on offense. Curry isnt even always the primary ball handler on GS

:roll: Dude watch an actual game, this is insane

[DaOldLion]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/20150401/5191637/killer-crossover-o.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/b4eb5b4368178505634aeb9487a34ca3/tumblr_nm46n7Px5M1qfmgozo1_400.gif

[DaOldLion]

[QUOTE]

[inclinerator]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/20150401/5191637/killer-crossover-o.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/b4eb5b4368178505634aeb9487a34ca3/tumblr_nm46n7Px5M1qfmgozo1_400.gif
curry has a few highlights on cp3, meanwhile cp3 has a whole movie on destroying curry

[Young X]

So he can lead them to the best offense but can't lead them to the second round after getting a 3-1 lead..

his team was good enough to almost go up 2-0 on the Rockets without Paul.. they won a road game with out Paul.. that shows how great of a team he has around him..

Curry is better offensively, defenses don't react to Paul the way they react to Curry, he's a better shooter, a better leader, and a his spacing creates so many opportunities for his team, not to mention his ability to play off ball at an elite level just puts him over the top

and Curry hardly ever over dribbles while Paul constantly does

you can't construct a team around Paul like you can around Curry - that's the biggest difference, you couldn't construct a team like the Warriors have with Paul as your best player.. it wouldn't work..

teams have spent 10 years trying to construct a successful team around Paul and it has gotten them nowhere, Paul has all the help he needs and still can't get it done in the playoffsYeah I don't give a f*ck about the conference finals shit. Baketball isn't tennis. Comparing their team success isn't an apples to apples comparison. The Warriors were clearly a better, more balanced team with more depth than the Clippers (or any team Paul has ever been on) last season.

You're view on the game is extremely one dimensional. You just don't get it, there's more to the game than PPG and rings.

[Legends66NBA7]

How long till OP eventually posts Curry vs Magic or Curry vs Jordan of this Curry vs _______ series ?

[catch24]

2015 Curry is better than any version of Chris Paul, so yea, Steph Curry.


https://38.media.tumblr.com/b4eb5b4368178505634aeb9487a34ca3/tumblr_nm46n7Px5M1qfmgozo1_400.gif

Curry just toying with his food. :eek:

[houston]

2015 Curry is better than any version of Chris Paul, so yea, Steph Curry.


yup

[dhsilv]

this post is terrible :facepalm



Paul has the best PF in the league, Griffin put up 26/13/6 in the playoffs.. who does Curry have that can do that? Paul has Deandre Jordan, one the best defensive bigs in the league and an alll nba team center, those two guys + a deep team with a great coach.. he has PLENTY of help



no he wouldn't this team was built around having the GOAT shooter, something Paul is not, he doesn't have anywhere near the shot creating ability for himself that Curry has



:roll: Dude watch an actual game, this is insane


What team were you watching with depth? That team was as shallow as they come. I still struggle with Doc being a great coach. Always felt his run with the celtics was a result of players and likely great assistant coaching work, but since everyone disagrees I won't argue.

[IGOTGAME]

2015 Curry is better than any version of Chris Paul, so yea, Steph Curry.



Curry just toying with his food. :eek:

CP3 was said to have the arguably the second best peak of any point guard in the history of the NBA. I agree Curry had a magical season, would you say it was one of the top 3 seasons for a guard(each person only listed once) in the history of the NBA?

1. Jordan
2. Curry
3. Kobe/Wade/Nash/Oscar

[catch24]

CP3 was said to have the arguably the second best peak of any point guard in the history of the NBA. I agree Curry had a magical season, would you say it was one of the top 3 seasons for a guard(each person only listed once) in the history of the NBA?

1. Jordan
2. Curry
3. Kobe/Wade/Nash/Oscar

I wouldn't rate Curry ahead of Kobe or Wade. He's better than Nash and I never saw Oscar play so...

What do you think?

[SHAQisGOAT]

CP3 was said to have the arguably the second best peak of any point guard in the history of the NBA. I agree Curry had a magical season, would you say it was one of the top 3 seasons for a guard(each person only listed once) in the history of the NBA?

1. Jordan
2. Curry
3. Kobe/Wade/Nash/Oscar

Where's Magic? :biggums:

[IGOTGAME]

Where's Magic? :biggums:
my fault...same tier with Kobe and Wade

[SHAQisGOAT]

my fault...same tier with Kobe and Wade

Huh? You gonna put Curry ahead of Magic? :wtf:

:roll:

I'm not putting Curry above players as Kobe, West, Wade or Oscar, as overall players at their peak but I let it slide on that one because you may consider single-season accolades/awards on that discussion... NOW Magic? Dude peaked around 1987 and won MVP, title and FMVP in dominant fashion...

Get real...

[IGOTGAME]

Huh? You gonna put Curry ahead of Magic? :wtf:

:roll:

I'm not putting Curry above players as Kobe, West, Wade or Oscar, as overall players at their peak but I let it slide on that one because you may consider single-season accolades/awards on that discussion... NOW Magic? Dude peaked around 1987 and won MVP, title and FMVP in dominant fashion...

Get real...

there were just things that Magic couldn't do that Curry can...also, Curry could have won finals MVP too.

NBA has changed since then. Point guards have evolved now and Magic's lack of reliable 3 point shot is a skill that is hard to make up for now. idk...in the context of their era their peak years were equally dominant but Curry's game provides so much more spacing and he doesnt have to be so ball dominant.

[ralph_i_el]

CP3 before the knee injury was a far superior player to Curry. He's still a better player now, regardless. If you don't understand how great a basketball player Chris Paul is...you frankly just don't know anything about basketball.

Far superior in every aspect of ball besides shooting. The thing is, Curry is such a great shooter that it's hard to compare him to anyone.

[catch24]

BTW OP... this was you during the finals:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376382

What changed so dramatically? I mean you had current Kobe over Curry, and weren't even trolling. :oldlol:

[SwishSquared]

Far superior in every aspect of ball besides shooting. The thing is, Curry is such a great shooter that it's hard to compare him to anyone.This is a good point. And it's the 3 point shooting that helps him prop up an offense in such a different way than we've seen from a PG. CP3 has a GOAT-caliber midrange game, especially from the right elbow.

I think it's safe to say that peak CP3 was more well-rounded than peak Curry, but Steph's shooting helps mitigate his deficiencies so much that I can't name 5 PGs who had a better regular season than him.

I still take peak CP3- feel it's easier to build a 2-way cast around him, he makes the right play even more often than Curry does, and his game translates to other eras easier. In the pace/space era, it's really tempting to put peak Curry over peak CP3. However, I feel peak CP3 could have done an exceptional job on this Warriors team as well.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Much like the absurd recent Curry or Wade comparison, though at a more comprabale level in this case ...

Chris is easily the better all around player. He's a better distributor, leader, floor general and just a slightly inferior scorer. While being a vastly superior defender. Clutch too. Chris Paul at his peak was better. Especially when he had more burst and quickness.

CP3 is the answer then, and now. Even if not as trendy given the popularity, and marketing push is for Curry. If you actually watch basketball it would be obvious.

[IGOTGAME]

BTW OP... this was you during the finals:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376382

What changed so dramatically? I mean you had current Kobe over Curry, and weren't even trolling. :oldlol:

been doing some reading on analytics. re-watching old tape and challenging my preconceived notions of the game.

[IGOTGAME]

Much like the absurd recent Curry or Wade comparison, though at a more comprabale level in this case ...

Chris is easily the better all around player. He's a better distributor, leader, floor general and just a slightly inferior scorer. While being a vastly superior defender. Clutch too. Chris Paul at his peak was better. Especially when he had more burst and quickness.

CP3 is the answer then, and now. Even if not as trendy given the popularity, and marketing push is for Curry. If you actually watch basketball it would be obvious.

If we are talking pre 2010 NBA I could see your argument. But in this new NBA we have to come to terms with the fact that shooting is king. 3 is greater than 2. Curry can get his shot at any time and on any defender while CP3 could not, not even getting into efficiency.

[brownmamba00]

my fault...same tier with Kobe and Wade
c'mon man I like Curry but he's not even close to a peak Kobe or Magic...Wade is arguable but I'll take Wade over Curry 8 times out of 10

[SamuraiSWISH]

If we are talking pre 2010 NBA I could see your argument. But in this new NBA we have to come to terms with the fact that shooting is king. 3 is greater than 2. Curry can get his shot at any time and on any defender while CP3 could not, not even getting into efficiency.
Yes, the soft physicality pace / space league is different. And it helps cater to Curry's game a crap ton.

But even so CP3 is still every bit as good in this era (RS and Playoffs for proof) that only elevates Curry's strengths, and negates many of his weaknesses.

Paul translates better to all eras of the game. Curry I don't think does to the same extent. Especially not if players were allowed to be more physical on the perimeter. Look at the trouble he had with an Australian journeyman in the Finals.

:oldlol:

[SHAQisGOAT]

there were just things that Magic couldn't do that Curry can...also, Curry could have won finals MVP too.

NBA has changed since then. Point guards have evolved now and Magic's lack of reliable 3 point shot is a skill that is hard to make up for now. idk...in the context of their era their peak years were equally dominant but Curry's game provides so much more spacing and he doesnt have to be so ball dominant.

:biggums:

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/mjlol.png

So, it has come to this, huh? Now you got some nikkas saying Curry had a better peak than Magic and such? :wtf: :facepalm

So? There were many things Magic could do that Curry just can't...
I don't care about could've and, tbh, even if had won FMVP (probably should've) it wouldn't make much of a difference here.

GTFOH with all that bullshit talk...
And yea, the game's different - not better - now but not to a certain extent that a PG like Magic would've been worse or something... Drop prime Magic in this league and he's still the best PG in the game, with a great case for best player.

I can also say - and these are actually facts - that Curry's doing his thing without handchecking, with much more star treatment, way less physicality... Ever wondered why most little dudes didn't last that long back then? Smaller nikkas were getting hammered left and right when they drove into the paint, pushed around more easily. Plus, Magic came up without the 3pt-line, didn't play in 3pt-era and he STILL developed a reliable 3pt-shot at some point in his career.
Rose won MVP without a great 3pt-shot, Parker did his thing without a great 3pt-shot, Westbrook or Wall don't have a great 3p-shot and are two of the best PG's in the game... And, tbh, they ain't ****ing with peak Magic. LeBron had plenty of terrific years where he didn't display a great 3pt-shot...

Peak Magic was clutcher than Stephen, a better leader, Curry's not that close to being able to run an offense like Magic could, he's not that close to Magic as a passer, Johnson is a better rebounder, Johnson was more versatile on offense, Curry's not even as good as a fastbreak player, Steph's definitely a better shooter but Magic could take over with his scoring as well while being EXTREMELY efficient... Magic was ****ing 6'8 with PG handles/mobility, terrific at going to the rim and finishing it inside, had a very good post-game, great soft-touch from up close, developed a reliable mid-range game and could kill you when given the space, like I've said even developed a 3pt-shot... Curry's EASILY a better shooter and yet Johnson STILL reached 90+% from FT-line twice, on MUCH MORE attempts than Steph's ever gotten to.
On the defense, the only edge Curry could've gotten there is at steals, but Magic was also very good at it. None of them is locking anyone down on D, not even remotely close to it, but at least you could put Magic guarding various positions just as well, and he was smart at it in his prime.

Curry was having trouble shaking off Dellavedova and the Cavs' D in the Finals, while Magic was eating Rodman/Dumars and the Bad Boys alive, killing Dennis Johnson and the Celtics, doing it vs Cheeks/Bobby Jones/Dr J, still did his thing in the 1991 Finals with his two best teammates injured, being guarded by Pippen and Jordan...

Johnson was the clear-cut best PG in the game with Isiah, Price, Stockton, Kevin Johnson, Gus Williams or Fat Lever in the league. He won MVP with Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone or Wilkins in the league... Shit, this shouldn't even be a discussion right here, this is not even THAT close, let alone Curry being better.

****ing fanboys never cease to amaze me :facepalm

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Paul. Better at everything except shooting, and it's not like he was a bad shooter or anything.

[IGOTGAME]

Yes, the soft physicality pace / space league is different. And it helps cater to Curry's game a crap ton.

But even so CP3 is still every bit as good in this era (RS and Playoffs for proof) that only elevates Curry's strengths, and negates many of his weaknesses.

Paul translates better to all eras of the game. Curry I don't think does to the same extent. Especially not if players were allowed to be more physical on the perimeter. Look at the trouble he had with an Australian journeyman in the Finals.

:oldlol:

That guy was a rough tough Aussie rugby player. He chased Curry for 2 games and almost died...think about that.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That guy was a rough tough Aussie rugby player. He chased Curry for 2 games and almost died...think about that.
And Curry was outplayed by injuried Kyrie in game 1, and the un-athletic journeyman Rugby player defended him quite well in games 1 - game 3.

[Legends66NBA7]

****ing fanboys never cease to amaze me :facepalm [/B]

OP is baiting this whole thread just for people to turn on Steph.

[catch24]

been doing some reading on analytics. re-watching old tape and challenging my preconceived notions of the game.

Cool, but maybe you should pump the brakes some. Your 'new outlook' is a drastically different opinion on basketball. :oldlol:

I agree that CP3 never had the impact Curry did last year, who also led the league in RPM. Steph's offense is scary good and his defense is underrated as well (people will bring up team strength, but RPM separates team from player).

Dude legit had one of the greatest offensive seasons ever last year, so yea, there's no doubt he was better than CP3 ever was.

On par with Kobe though? Different subject all-together.


Keeping it thread related... Here's another gif of Curry sonning CP3

https://i.imgflip.com/ililw.gif

You know Paul has nightmares thinking about their matchups. :oldlol:

[iznogood]

CP3 was putting up better numbers in 08, but he's a better player to me now, so I'm not even sure about his peak. The Curry : Paul comparison is difficult for me as well. Curry is clearly a better offensive player and CP3 could never dominate the game the way Curry can, but CP3 is one of the best defending PGs and a better overall player.

[Jacks3]

It's crazy how underrated Curry still is. Dude seriously might be the greatest offensive player of the post-Jordan era.

[juju151111]

RS and Playoffs peak Magic>Curry>>Paul. The fact is Curry being on the floor not even if he shooting or noy greatly change defense by his presence. Which is why his Offensive rating was so absurd along with his ORpm. The defenses have to shade all the way to him do way more hedging etc.... The fact is Cp3 never had that impact offensively and Curry is ridiculously efficient. Along with hos playoffs put him above cp3 peak. Facts

[24-Inch_Chrome]

It's crazy how underrated Curry still is. Dude seriously might be the greatest offensive player of the post-Jordan era.

:roll:

[juju151111]

And Curry was outplayed by injuried Kyrie in game 1, and the un-athletic journeyman Rugby player defended him quite well in games 1 - game 3.
Curry wasn't outplayed by Irving in game 1. Last time i checked The Warriors were up like 4 when Irving injured and Curry step up in ot.

[Cold soul]

It's crazy how underrated Curry still is. Dude seriously might be the greatest offensive player of the post-Jordan era.


Wow dude really? :oldlol:

I hope this is trolling otherwise... :facepalm

[SwishSquared]

Curry wasn't outplayed by Irving in game 1. Last time i checked The Warriors were up like 4 when Irving injured and Curry step up in ot.I'd have to rewatch but I think Curry started to play better once he was defended by Delly than when Kyrie was in. Irving held his own I think, but I really might be misremembering.

[Cold soul]

CP3 in 08 his peak is better than any version of Curry.

[BasedTom]

It's crazy how underrated Curry still is. Dude seriously might be the greatest offensive player of the post-Jordan era.
:coleman:

[qrich]

So, last season was arguable on who was better, and it was a good Paul season, but not as good as his peak.

Therefore, the peaks are comparable how?

[Sarcastic]

How many more ATG are gonna get disrespected by Curry stans?

[thefatmiral]

Talent is comparable. I think Paul fell short of his potential. Especially success wise. Curry, smarter more confident player, slightly more healthy is the better version. Very close call.

[Legends66NBA7]

How many more ATG are gonna get disrespected by Curry stans?

There are like 2 Curry Stans on this board and I don't see either posting or making these threads. The OP hates Curry and makes these threads based on what he read off Real GM.

All that said, Curry is an ATG at the end of the day too.

[Heavincent]

Curry is already a better and more accomplished player than Paul.

[SwishSquared]

Talent is comparable. I think Paul fell short of his potential. Especially success wise. Curry, smarter more confident player, slightly more healthy is the better version. Very close call.Curry isn't smarter in terms of BBIQ. He attempts more reckless passes than CP3 does (hence higher TOs/game).

Curry definitely was more confident last year. I think peak CP3 was self-confident to point of having healthy cockiness. He doesn't have as much of that anymore.

[KG215]

Curry is already a better and more accomplished player than Paul.
More accomplished? Yes.

Better? No.


Being more accomplished doesn't mean Player A is better than Player B. Chris Paul peaked higher than 2015 Curry. In fact, there are probably several versions of Chris Paul I'd take over 2015 Curry.

[Heavincent]

More accomplished? Yes.

Better? No.


Being more accomplished doesn't mean Player A is better than Player B. Chris Paul peaked higher than 2015 Curry. In fact, there are probably several versions of Chris Paul I'd take over 2015 Curry.

Debatable. Plenty of people consider Curry to be a better player.

[notatop29pg]

I don't mind saying Curry is ahead of Paul now. He's had 3 good years though.. talk about ATG when he nails the next 5.

[SwishSquared]

Debatable. Plenty of people consider Curry to be a better player.Could attribute that to recency bias and/or confirmation bias.

[DaOldLion]

Could attribute that to recency bias and/or confirmation bias.

maybe because recently Steph Curry accomplished more in 8 months than Paul has done in 10 years

[DMAVS41]

This is a really interesting question.

On one hand I think of Paul's game management, defense, and toughness and think he's played at a higher level...and I think that is probably true.

However, I wonder if Curry's style / abilities just are more valuable than a pure point.

I'm wondering if Curry's shooting really just is more valuable than the stuff Paul is so great at.

I don't know on this one...I'm leaning more and more to a realization that range shooting and scoring...especially out of guards...just matters more than being a pure point. It's not like Curry is some stiff on defense anymore...and he can pass and manage a game a lot better than just a couple years ago. There is just so much impact with Curry off the ball and that shooting just forces defense to do crazy things in the pick and roll.

Tough one...I'd have to think more, but I think there is something to this Paul might be better individually, but Curry's game just translates to more impact. Which is basically just saying Curry is better, but there is something to this...I'm just not able to verbalize it well just yet.

[dhsilv]

Talent is comparable. I think Paul fell short of his potential. Especially success wise. Curry, smarter more confident player, slightly more healthy is the better version. Very close call.

I don't see him being smarter or more confident...I'd say in those areas Paul has a huge lead. Paul lost a lot of his athletic level, but he's hardly been injury prone either. That to me is a wash unless you're just saying because of Paul's knees he's going to have a shorter career (very possible).

[dhsilv]

Curry is already a better and more accomplished player than Paul.

Define accomplished? A title and an MVP? He's got 1 all nba first team, one all nba second team, and two all star games to his name along with an mvp.


Chris Paul has 4 all NBA first team, 2 second team, 1 3rd team, 5 first team defensive team, and 2 second team defensive teams. Oh and 8 all star teams, rookie of the year, and if you want to throw it in all--star game mvp.

As for the MVP gap, Paul has an MVP Award Share of 1.554 compared to Curry at .977. Unless winning the MVP and the title are really THAT much bigger a deal to you and given I know I will say it and I know others will agree (in the world who knows here) but Paul was robbed of at least 1 MVP.

[IGOTGAME]

This is a really interesting question.

On one hand I think of Paul's game management, defense, and toughness and think he's played at a higher level...and I think that is probably true.

However, I wonder if Curry's style / abilities just are more valuable than a pure point.

I'm wondering if Curry's shooting really just is more valuable than the stuff Paul is so great at.

I don't know on this one...I'm leaning more and more to a realization that range shooting and scoring...especially out of guards...just matters more than being a pure point. It's not like Curry is some stiff on defense anymore...and he can pass and manage a game a lot better than just a couple years ago. There is just so much impact with Curry off the ball and that shooting just forces defense to do crazy things in the pick and roll.

Tough one...I'd have to think more, but I think there is something to this Paul might be better individually, but Curry's game just translates to more impact. Which is basically just saying Curry is better, but there is something to this...I'm just not able to verbalize it well just yet.

Thank you. A very well reasoned analysis and I find myself at the same place. It's a very interesting question and we are all gonna have to change our views in this post 2010 NBA

[warriorfan]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/20150401/5191637/killer-crossover-o.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/b4eb5b4368178505634aeb9487a34ca3/tumblr_nm46n7Px5M1qfmgozo1_400.gif

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[dhsilv]

This is a really interesting question.

On one hand I think of Paul's game management, defense, and toughness and think he's played at a higher level...and I think that is probably true.

However, I wonder if Curry's style / abilities just are more valuable than a pure point.

I'm wondering if Curry's shooting really just is more valuable than the stuff Paul is so great at.

I don't know on this one...I'm leaning more and more to a realization that range shooting and scoring...especially out of guards...just matters more than being a pure point. It's not like Curry is some stiff on defense anymore...and he can pass and manage a game a lot better than just a couple years ago. There is just so much impact with Curry off the ball and that shooting just forces defense to do crazy things in the pick and roll.

Tough one...I'd have to think more, but I think there is something to this Paul might be better individually, but Curry's game just translates to more impact. Which is basically just saying Curry is better, but there is something to this...I'm just not able to verbalize it well just yet.

Assuming Paul is healthy the clippers have a bench and legit talent around him this year. This year's team is a true title contender on paper. I think we'll finally be able to say, if he can't do it this year he just can't do. I for one can't wait to find out :)

[nathanjizzle]

curry is better and its more clear to anybody who knows about basketball. only an imbecile would have to "think about it more".:roll:

the results are in arleady, there is no question. one is an MVP and a nba champion. The other is a first round knockout.

[DMAVS41]

Assuming Paul is healthy the clippers have a bench and legit talent around him this year. This year's team is a true title contender on paper. I think we'll finally be able to say, if he can't do it this year he just can't do. I for one can't wait to find out :)

LOL...definitely not. You don't just claim someone "can't" do something...especially a player as good as Paul.

[warriorfan]

Rent Free AMC

[DMAVS41]

Rose fans really are such babies...just like their favorite player...who thinks it's smart to talk about "all that money" when he can't even stay on the court in the preseason and has probably been the worst player in the league relative to his contract since 2012

Just take the L...please

[nathanjizzle]

Rose fans really are such babies...just like their favorite player...who thinks it's smart to talk about "all that money" when he can't even stay on the court in the preseason and has probably been the worst player in the league relative to his contract since 2012

Just take the L...please

that was the worst rebuttal you have ever written. i really expected more from you.

[dhsilv]

LOL...definitely not. You don't just claim someone "can't" do something...especially a player as good as Paul.

Would we have proof? No. Would we have enough evidence/his career far enough along and on the decline to say it without a strong rebuttal? Yeah....I think we're there. If he can't make at least the conference finals with this team assuming no major setbacks, it's gotta be on him. Right?

[DMAVS41]

Would we have proof? No. Would we have enough evidence/his career far enough along and on the decline to say it without a strong rebuttal? Yeah....I think we're there. If he can't make at least the conference finals with this team assuming no major setbacks, it's gotta be on him. Right?

We just saw him beat the Spurs with a legendary game 7.

I'm going to hold off saying we can say a player can't do something.

[dhsilv]

We just saw him beat the Spurs with a legendary game 7.

I'm going to hold off saying we can say a player can't do something.

and then he got gassed without a bench in the next round. He's got a bench now. If he can't win next year, I'm not sure if he's got many more elite level years left in him. If you'd like we can say "won't" but he's not really had the right team to this point imo. Now he's got as good as he's going to likely get.

[DMAVS41]

and then he got gassed without a bench in the next round. He's got a bench now. If he can't win next year, I'm not sure if he's got many more elite level years left in him. If you'd like we can say "won't" but he's not really had the right team to this point imo. Now he's got as good as he's going to likely get.

There is huge difference in saying you don't think one can do something...and saying they can't do something.

[Heavincent]

LOL...definitely not. You don't just claim someone "can't" do something...especially a player as good as Paul.

If he doesn't win it this year, I think it's somewhat fair to question his ability to win a title as "the man". I mean, he hasn't even come close, and it's not like he's been playing with scrubs his entire career. The Clippers have done a decent job putting legit talent around him.

[IGOTGAME]

If he doesn't win it this year, I think it's somewhat fair to question his ability to win a title as "the man". I mean, he hasn't even come close, and it's not like he's been playing with scrubs his entire career. The Clippers have done a decent job putting legit talent around him.
It's also not like he has been playing with the best supporting cast in any year. He has been running around on super teams. I don't think any of his teams were good enough to win it all.

[Heavincent]

It's also not like he has been playing with the best supporting cast in any year. He has been running around on super teams. I don't think any of his teams were good enough to win it all.

No his teams aren't perfect, but people act like he's playing with crap.

[SwishSquared]

maybe because recently Steph Curry accomplished more in 8 months than Paul has done in 10 yearsThat just makes my point of both recency and confirmation bias...

Curry was the offensive engine of one of the best teams of all time, statistically-speaking. I might be in the minority on this board, but Kobe got a lifetime achievement award MVP when CP3 was truly the most valuable player to his team that season. CP3 has made All Star Games, All NBA teams, and All Defense teams like clockwork throughout his career. Not like he hasn't done jack.

Even this year, I think Harden had a really strong case for MVP over Curry considering the injuries Houston battled through. Curry had a much greater margin for error.

Now, winning a title and how a player performs en route to a ring is extremely important to evaluate. Curry in the end delivered and he deserves immense credit for that. Paul obviously hasn't gotten there. I honestly only expected him to make the WCF this season, even on the bum hamstring. Every other playoff series he's played in, I expected his team to lose simply because they were worse.

I also expected GSW to lose to the Clippers in 2014, Spurs in 2013, and Nuggets in 2013 fwiw. I expected GSW to win every series this season based on how complete they were and ability to play multiple styles.

I think you can make a real case that Curry > CP3 specifically for this era due to his outside shooting. However, Paul is great at so many things that it's easier to build a team around him in more eras imo. I feel that's worth something. Paul can't be your leading scorer en route to a title and Curry proved he could. That may matter more in this era than it did even 5 years ago.

[PHILA]

This somewhat reminds me of a Robertson vs. West comparison, at least in offensive styles, with CP3 as Big O and Curry as West. However West was a better defender than Big O, while CP3 is better than Curry on that end. And his small size (6'0) prevents him from being a great post player like Big O. While Curry, like West had a very quick shot release off the dribble with greater shooting range than Oscar/CP3. He may a better ball handler than West, but is not even close defensively. Honestly there is no wrong answer.


Jerry West on the comparison between him and Oscar:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6364549&postcount=42

Who’s better, Oscar or me? This is the one single question that has been asked more often that any other since I’ve been playing basketball. And it is really for others to decide, if it can be decided. But I personally have always felt that Oscar was the best.

He has had two big advantages over me. Number one: while we play the same position, he has greater size, which gives him some advantages. And number two: he’s a better ballhandler and passer. That’s for sure. I think we’re about equal as shooters. I’m a better outside shooter, but Oscar is better inside. I may have two advantages over him. One, I’m better defensively. And two (and I’m being so honest about this that it scares me a little), I do believe I’ve played better and done more than he has in certain situations when it counts the most.

[All Net]

Steph is a player who you can depend on in the playoffs. He even did it in his first playoff run making the 2nd round. It

[inclinerator]

[QUOTE=All Net]Steph is a player who you can depend on in the playoffs. He even did it in his first playoff run making the 2nd round. It

[All Net]

wat, cp3 always consistently put up great numbers in the playoffs
No he hasn't. He's also made bonehead plays that has cost his team a series. They had game 5 won in OKC until his stupid mistake.

[bdreason]

CP3 for me. Better defender. Better passer. Better ball control.



Curry is the better shooter and off-ball scorer.

[Noyze]

2008 Paul was retarded good. Funny how people forget how good he was before the knee. Paul could also play in any era.

Curry is great too, but I wanna see how he does when every point guard he faces isn't injured.

[WayOfWade]

This is probably going to sound stupid but while I think that Paul is the better player (i.e. Higher Peak), I'd go with Stephen Curry on my team seeing as his Peak isn't all that worse than Paul's, and he has shown us that he can get it done in the playoffs as All Net has previously stated. If Paul can take down Curry however this postseason and get his Clippers the title, my opinion will change. I doubt he'll do it though, seeing as he has choked away a Game 7 vs the Spurs in NO, gave up a 2-0 series lead against the Grizzlies, had one of the worst choke jobs I've seen against the Thunder (only outdone by the Michigan Punter Fumble vs. Michigan State), and watched his team go up 3-1 in the playoffs almost without his help only to lose 3 straight once he came back and lose the series (including blowing a 19-point lead in a close out game). Overall his track record isn't too impressive, whereas Curry has upset a team in his first playoff appearance and pushed the Spurs as a young inexperienced team, and just a year after a playoff disappointment against the Clippets came back to easily win the title. Paul has the accolades, but Curry has that edge

[Wade's Rings]

This is probably going to sound stupid but while I think that Paul is the better player (i.e. Higher Peak), I'd go with Stephen Curry on my team seeing as his Peak isn't all that worse than Paul's

This is debatable.


and he has shown us that he can get it done in the playoffs as All Net has previously stated. If Paul can take down Curry however this postseason and get his Clippers the title, my opinion will change.

CP3 has to get to the Finals now, the Conference Finals can't be his Goal.


I doubt he'll do it though, seeing as he has choked away a Game 7 vs the Spurs in NO, gave up a 2-0 series lead against the Grizzlies, had one of the worst choke jobs I've seen against the Thunder (only outdone by the Michigan Punter Fumble vs. Michigan State), and watched his team go up 3-1 in the playoffs almost without his help only to lose 3 straight once he came back and lose the series (including blowing a 19-point lead in a close out game).

In 2013 he played great. Blake got hurt and despite Paul's efforts the team still lost.

He played in Games 3 & 4 vs the Rockets.


Overall his track record isn't too impressive, whereas Curry has upset a team in his first playoff appearance and pushed the Spurs as a young inexperienced team, and just a year after a playoff disappointment against the Clippets came back to easily win the title. Paul has the accolades, but Curry has that edge

Curry faced injured teams in that title run and it he didn't "easily win it", easily winning it is the '89 Pistons, '92 Bulls, '01 Lakers.

[Top Gun]

Curry, CP3 has always flattered to deceive. Has had two very good big men and a perennial 6th man of the year and can't get it done.

[SwishSquared]

This is probably going to sound stupid but while I think that Paul is the better player (i.e. Higher Peak), I'd go with Stephen Curry on my team seeing as his Peak isn't all that worse than Paul's, and he has shown us that he can get it done in the playoffs as All Net has previously stated. If Paul can take down Curry however this postseason and get his Clippers the title, my opinion will change. I doubt he'll do it though, seeing as he has choked away a Game 7 vs the Spurs in NO, gave up a 2-0 series lead against the Grizzlies, had one of the worst choke jobs I've seen against the Thunder (only outdone by the Michigan Punter Fumble vs. Michigan State), and watched his team go up 3-1 in the playoffs almost without his help only to lose 3 straight once he came back and lose the series (including blowing a 19-point lead in a close out game). Overall his track record isn't too impressive, whereas Curry has upset a team in his first playoff appearance and pushed the Spurs as a young inexperienced team, and just a year after a playoff disappointment against the Clippets came back to easily win the title. Paul has the accolades, but Curry has that edgeThis is detailed, but I feel it's a straw man.

That was his 1st playoff run vs. the Spurs in NO back in '07-08. If we expect a team's leader to be flawless in his first playoff run that's pretty harsh. He lost a Game 7 at home to the defending champs that was a 1 possession game late in the fourth quarter (pretty sure it was a 1-possession game with ~1 minute left). You could argue that the Hornets took it to the Spurs more than the '13 Warriors did.

Steph got banged up vs. the Spurs (after shocking them initially). Games 3,5,6 were all wins for Spurs and they weren't exactly nail-biters (10, 18, 12 point wins, respectively). They did upset the Nuggets, which I didn't see coming.

LAC lost in 2012 to Spurs with both BG and CP3 banged up. They were both pretty clearly slowed down imo. In 2013 vs. Memphis in the first round BG had a high ankle sprain in Game 5 (after not playing particularly well throughout the series) and Del Negro had Lamar Odom closing out fourth quarters. Pretty sure that was the series where CP3 was deploring the coaching staff for a back-up play during their last time out in one late game situation and it was obvious there would be a coaching change after the season.

He clearly choked in Game 5 vs. OKC. The whole team choked vs. Houston and he does deserve a lot of that blame.

I think one thing we never talk about re: CP3 is the fact he tends to have muscle injuries in the playoffs. This was the 2nd consecutive postseason where he struggled with a hamstring. His durability can def be questioned, but maybe that's a result of him being so small in stature. Curry has at least been healthy past 2 postseasons, which is a credit to his durability and the training staff.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

And Curry was outplayed by injuried Kyrie in game 1, and the un-athletic journeyman Rugby player defended him quite well in games 1 - game 3.

How your boy Rose do against that man in the ECF?

:lol