Underrated: Ability to adapt?

[Black and White]

I may be alone on this, but I feel like something thats not discussed much here when comparing players is their ability to adapt, by which I mean on a number if different levels:

adapting their game to fit different offensive and defensive schemes

adapting their games as they get older to maintain high levels of play

adjusting to playing with other players

is this something that should be considered? Or plays a part in how you rate a player?

Some players to consider in regards to this: Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Dirk just to name a few

[Duffy Pratt]

It should receive more attention. Other examples:

John Havliceks various roles as a Celtic.
Dennis Johnsons transition to the Celtics as he aged.
Earl Monroes transition to the Knicks.
Elvin Hayes playing alongside Wes Unseld.
Kareem's adjustments as a Laker.
Oscars adjustment as a Buck
Jerry Lucas move to the Knicks
Jason Kidds adjustments as he got older, especially his shot.
Chris Boshs ability to find a role in Bronball.

[brooks_thompson]

Vince Carter deserves a mention as well. The way he transitioned into 6th/7th man for Dallas was really impressive.

Kidd has shown the ability as both a player and coach. I believe he sits in the top-five (maybe 10) of all time threes made. Plus he learned to quit bleaching his hair.

On the opposite end, Gary Payton didn't fare so well in the triangle Lakers. I guess he redeemed himself with a couple big clutch playoff games for the Heat later down the line. But even on that team, his fit was tenuous.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt Chamberlain:

50ppg on 50% with 2.5assists

24ppg on 70% with 8 assists

14ppg on 73% leading centers in assists and focusing almost entirely on defense

About as versatile a center as there has ever been.

[Fire Colangelo]

Some players will fit in just about any system.

Guys like KG, Ray Allen come to mind.

Wade deserves a special mention.... his 2012 season one of the best season for a 2nd option in recent memory.

[Alamо]

Tim Duncan can play with anybody and still fit in. I think that's actually his best attribute and the biggest reason why the Spurs are so successful. I feel like he'd be any coaches favorite player.

[dhsilv]

This board seems to want to criticize players for not being the Jordan basically. As a result things like this which are clearly huge positive attributes get ignored.

[livingby3's]

The players mentioned in the op all play for a single franchise their lives. Maybe thats something to think about.

Also, I would bring Pierce into the discussion.
From being the sole star, to sharing the ball with a big 3, to being the vet leader in the wizards

[dhsilv]

The players mentioned in the op all play for a single franchise their lives. Maybe thats something to think about.

Also, I would bring Pierce into the discussion.
From being the sole star, to sharing the ball with a big 3, to being the vet leader in the wizards

Walker???? Come on now lol

[Clifton]

Vince Carter deserves a mention as well. The way he transitioned into 6th/7th man for Dallas was really impressive.
Agreed.

He was always "the injured guy" back in the day. Look how he's lasted. Iverson and Tmac long retired, Vince is still playing quality minutes for outside contenders.

Do you realize that Carter, Dirk, KG, Pierce, and Kobe are probably all going to retire at the end of this year?

[sdot_thadon]

Yeah, definitely op. I value it and it should be given more credit. Especially for guys who undergo stylistic changes mid career and still are successful. Sucks that things like this fly under the radar around here or are taken in a negative light.

[Bless Mathews]

Wilt Chamberlain:

50ppg on 50% with 2.5assists

24ppg on 70% with 8 assists

14ppg on 73% leading centers in assists and focusing almost entirely on defense

About as versatile a center as there has ever been.

Against white scrubs with the athleticism as you.

Should be a lot higher if he was really good.

[fpliii]

Definitely is undervalued in general. Some other places use the term portability.

Ability to fit and thrive in a variety of systems, in a variety of roles, with a variety of supporting casts.

[Pointguard]

I may be alone on this, but I feel like something thats not discussed much here when comparing players is their ability to adapt, by which I mean on a number if different levels:

adapting their game to fit different offensive and defensive schemes

adapting their games as they get older to maintain high levels of play

adjusting to playing with other players

is this something that should be considered? Or plays a part in how you rate a player?

Some players to consider in regards to this: Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Dirk just to name a few

I bring it up quite frequently in comparisons. Its under the bigger category of resourcefulness. I usually bring it up to show how Magic was different from other players in this regard (Bird as well). Magic and Bird were resourceful enough to change roles before the game and during the game. It changed the game and their intellectual reserves put the game at another level. It was something centers could not do.

In his first years Magic went from playing all of the positions to a great post player, a great offensive rebounder, an inside out player, an outside in player, lead player or support player, greatest PG, could penetrate, by '87 was steady on the outside shot, had a good hook shot, could see the whole floor and play it from all positions. He could have the Lakers outrun the running teams like Denver or slow it down in the half court with precise execution. He could totally balance the floor with the other four players getting equal play or he could feature one hot player. And he often adapted two or three times within the same game. Magic rarely got stuck in ruts or one place.

[jlip]

I fully agree with the OP. The ability to change your game and still be effective is very underrated. That's partially why I rank Magic so highly. I said the following about him some time ago.




IMO Magic is the greatest "puzzle piece" ever. By this I mean you could fit him in any offense, it would work, and he could still dominate without negatively impacting anyone else. He came in sharing pg duties with another player, and it worked. The pg was traded. He assumed full facilitating duties, and it worked. When it was time for him to become the team's leading scorer, he did so, and it worked.




Wilt Chamberlain:

50ppg on 50% with 2.5assists

24ppg on 70% with 8 assists

14ppg on 73% leading centers in assists and focusing almost entirely on defense

About as versatile a center as there has ever been.

:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

I may be alone on this, but I feel like something thats not discussed much here when comparing players is their ability to adapt, by which I mean on a number if different levels:

adapting their game to fit different offensive and defensive schemes

adapting their games as they get older to maintain high levels of play

adjusting to playing with other players

is this something that should be considered? Or plays a part in how you rate a player?

Some players to consider in regards to this: Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Dirk just to name a few

Magic and Wilt.

[Dr Hawk]

bird:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[dubeta]

LeBron


28/8/7 in first 7 Years as Cavs player- PG role

27/7/7 on 55% FG as a purely Off-ball player in Miami

[Dr Hawk]

LeBron


28/8/7 in first 7 Years as Cavs player- PG role

27/7/7 on 55% FG as a purely Off-ball player in Miami

Mods

[GrapeApe]

LeBron


28/8/7 in first 7 Years as Cavs player- PG role

27/7/7 on 55% FG as a purely Off-ball player in Miami

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in any of your rambling incoherent posts have you ever been close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all now dumber for having read that. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[Pointguard]

Magic and Wilt.
I have always maintained that Wilt was ahead of his time. There were no coaches that could channel his many advantages and complete game into a productive concept where the team and support players could play well off of a great talent. Coaches like Pat Riley, Pop and Jackson were great for dealing with great talent - provided support, cushion, and freedom for great talents to be themselves and get the team collaboration to turn players into winners. Wilt could run with Magic and/or play the half court game. Provide blocks and rebouding for fast breaks, rotate positions on the floor and get the max out of each other's gifts. But coaches don't always play to max great talent if a great front office can manage to get great players.

[Dr Hawk]

What you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in any of your rambling incoherent posts have you ever been close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. We are all now dumber for having read that. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

:bowdown:

[rmt]

I may be alone on this, but I feel like something thats not discussed much here when comparing players is their ability to adapt, by which I mean on a number if different levels:

adapting their game to fit different offensive and defensive schemes

adapting their games as they get older to maintain high levels of play

adjusting to playing with other players

is this something that should be considered? Or plays a part in how you rate a player?

Some players to consider in regards to this: Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Kobe, Dirk just to name a few

I think Wade had a BIG adjustment - playing/ego/mental wise when Lebron joined the Heat - had to get used to the ball not being in his hands.

I personally don't think that Kobe is a good example of the above - he's gonna play the way he plays regardless.

Dirk needs a certain type of big man (good rebounder, defensive, dirty work type - a true center) beside him. Don't think what passes for a center these days would be good beside him - meaning no Draymond Green, no Bonner, no Horry types.

Duncan - I think it's one of this greatest strength - the ability to play with anybody - gives the Spurs great flexibility being able to play C (with Diaw, Horry, Bonner, McDyess, Aldridge, West) or PF (DRob, Nazr, Rasho, Oberto, Blair, Splitter, Baynes, Ayres, Thomas, Elson, Rose).

[dhsilv]

Agreed.

He was always "the injured guy" back in the day. Look how he's lasted. Iverson and Tmac long retired, Vince is still playing quality minutes for outside contenders.

Do you realize that Carter, Dirk, KG, Pierce, and Kobe are probably all going to retire at the end of this year?

What makes you think Dirk is going to retire? He could honestly play another half dozen years with his jumper (no way he does) and I'd question KG just because I honestly think he wants to keep playing (I don't get it).

[dhsilv]

I think Wade had a BIG adjustment - playing/ego/mental wise when Lebron joined the Heat - had to get used to the ball not being in his hands.

I personally don't think that Kobe is a good example of the above - he's gonna play the way he plays regardless.

Dirk needs a certain type of big man (good rebounder, defensive, dirty work type - a true center) beside him. Don't think what passes for a center these days would be good beside him - meaning no Draymond Green, no Bonner, no Horry types.

Duncan - I think it's one of this greatest strength - the ability to play with anybody - gives the Spurs great flexibility being able to play C (with Diaw, Horry, Bonner, McDyess, Aldridge, West) or PF (DRob, Nazr, Rasho, Oberto, Blair, Splitter, Baynes, Ayres, Thomas, Elson, Rose).

Kobe adapted similar to MJ as he aged he went to basket less and changed how he dominated the ball. He was pretty good with it.

Wade's problem is mostly he doesn't shoot the ball well enough to transition into a different style of offensive play. He's adapted but his style is still very similar to what it always has been. If he's not getting to the basket he's not going to be effective.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Totally agree...

One of the reasons why peak Bird's a better overall player than peak LeBron.