Lebron won't average 25 points a game this year

[StrongLurk]

Man he has looked stiff as ever, and his 3 point shot is just as broke as it was in the 2015 playoff.

With the decrease in minutes this year, there is no way Lebron will average 25 points per game.

Crazy to think that he has averaged at least that many points since he was 19.
We really are witnesses the decline of regular season Lebron.

[Rocketswin2013]

Only due to something like minutes. He'll be around 23-24.

32 - 33 mpg.

[raprap]

Only due to something like minutes. He'll be around 23-24.

32 - 33 mpg.
This.

[StrongLurk]

Only due to something like minutes. He'll be around 23-24.

32 - 33 mpg.

It's pretty damn disappointing.

I was hoping he would be better than that at this point in his career.

I understand his career minutes are insane and he is worn down, but his skills still leave a lot to desire when it comes to scoring the ball.

[Genaro]

He looked bad during the first half of last season until his mid season vacation, there's still time to bounce back.

[Indian guy]

He does look pretty stiff. The explosiveness/mobility in the half-court just isn't there. And that jumper looks more broke than the 2015 playoffs.

[3ball]

Man he has looked stiff as ever, and his 3 point shot is just as broke as it was in the 2015 playoff.

With the decrease in minutes this year, there is no way Lebron will average 25 points per game.

Crazy to think that he has averaged at least that many points since he was 19.
We really are witnesses the decline of regular season Lebron.
This ***** was never top 15 all-time.. He never achieved all-time stats unless:

1) he was losing (the 28/9/6 that he averaged in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs (when he actually won) are not all-time great stats,

2) reducing the stats of teammates (teammates averaged more PPG/APG before they played with Lebron.)
.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

This ***** was never top 15 all-time..
.

Damn, lol. Seeing the real Treeball come out now.

:eek:

[3ball]

Damn, lol. Seeing the real Treeball come out now.

:eek:

I can't respect any player that achieves his stats by significantly lowering the APG and assist % of his teammates:


Wade apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): 6.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:per_game), 34.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2004-2010-sum:advanced)
Wade apg and assist % with... Lebron (11'-14'): 4.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), 25.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)

Bosh apg and assist % before Lebron (04'-10'): 2.2, 10.5%
Bosh apg and assist % with... Lebron (11'-14'): 1.6 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:per_game), .8.0% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html#2011-2014-sum:advanced)

Irving apg and assist % before Lebron (12'-14'): 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:per_game), 33.2 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html#2012-2014-sum:advanced)
Irving apg and assist % with... Lebron (2015):... 5.2, 25.0%

Kevin Love apg and assist % in MIN: 2.5, 13.0%
Kevin Love apg and assist % in CLE:. 2.2, 10.7%

Mo Williams apg and assist % before Lebron: 6.3, 30.0%
Mo Williams apg and assist % with... Lebron: 4.1, 20.1%

FYI...

Pippen apg and assist % with.. Jordan 91'-93': 6.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:per_game), 24.5 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:advanced)
Pippen apg and assist % w/out Jordan 94'-95': 5.4 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:per_game), 23.7 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1994-1995-sum:advanced)
Pippen apg and assist % with.. Jordan 96'-98': 5.8 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:per_game), 25.1 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:advanced)

Source: basketball-reference.com


There's a reason the stats show Lebron lowering the assist capacity of his team - starting fives normally have only 1 ball-dominant, low-assisted player that teammates rarely throw assists to - the point guard.. But Lebron's point guard style from the forward position adds a 2nd low-assisted player that teammates can't throw assists to - he turns a normally high assisted forward position into a low assisted one, which lowers the assist capacity of the team relative to other teams whose forwards are highly-assisted..

So it shouldn't be surprising that Lebron significantly reduces the APG and assist % of teammates - and he also increases their assisted rate - this proves Lebron's presence as an extra point guard turns teammates from playmakers into play-finishers, thus preventing the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that the the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors, and 90's Bulls used (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s), where all 5 guys share the playmaking duties - since Lebron prevents the best brand of basketball, various equal or less-talented teams have pulled upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he accumulates them at the expense of teammates.. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, playground style, rather than trying to win.. His stat-friendly style is far less impressive than the superior, nuanced skill MJ needed to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.
.

[3ball]

Damn, lol. Seeing the real Treeball come out now.

:eek:



Furthermore, I can't respect a player that isn't capable of shooting well at high volume, and therefore doesn't require a double team to PREVENT high volume - the fact that Lebron uncomplicates an opponent's defense by not commanding a double-team is a horrific indictment on his game compared to any other top player:


The 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume playoffs and we saw what happened when the high volume forced him to stray from his normal diet of 3-pointers and layups - unfortunately, Lebron's efficiency is poor at the additional midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting, so he can't shoot well at high volume or require a double-team to PREVENT high volume..

At 39%, it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so they encouraged his high volume by not double-teaming - they only double-teamed him 18 times in the entire Finals.. Compare that to MJ, where his high efficiency at high volume caused teams to double-team him 10+ times in a single quarter, as standard (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210) - teams couldn't afford high volume from Jordan, since it was accompanied by high efficiency too..

But the real holy grail of basketball skill is far greater than controlling pace with high volume like Lebron, or adding good efficiency to the high volume like MJ.. The real holy grail of basketball skill is good efficiency at high volume while winning championships because the high volume must be achieved within the team concept - the high volume must be achieved without diminishing teammates' statistics so the team can reach it's ceiling and be a championship team..

MJ (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem (1995) are the only players that reached the holy grail of basketball skill by achieving high efficiency at high volume while winning a championship (25+ shot attempts on 45%+ during the playoffs).. Ultimately, their elite midrange efficiency allowed them to shoot well at high volume.. As you can see, midrange is the key to goat-level skill.. In MJ's case, he averaged an amazing 25.1 shot attempts in the playoffs on 49%.. When you compare his per 100 stats to other wings (playoffs stats shown below), it's clear that he did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts

[SouBeachTalents]

This ***** was never top 15 all-time.. He never achieved all-time stats unless:

1) he was losing (the 28/9/6 that he averaged in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs (when he actually won) are not all-time great stats,

2) reducing the stats of teammates (teammates averaged more PPG/APG before they played with Lebron.)
.

:lol Dude put up 30/10/6 on 50% during the '12 playoffs, better numbers than any perimeter player not named Jordan averaged during a title run.

And just to prove how insanely idiotic your point is, Bird put up 26/9/8 during the '86 playoffs. I guess those aren't all time great stats either

[3ball]

:lol Dude put up 30/10/6 on 50% during the '12 playoffs, better numbers than any perimeter player not named Jordan averaged during a title run.


See - you're making my point - one good run doesn't make you top 15 all time, especially when you offset that with goat chokes and goat losses..

Top 15 players don't lose four Finals by losing the last 3 games each time - the other teams figure out Lebron-ball, and then that's a rap... I'm sorry - this type of rudimentary, solvable game is just not top 15 caliber.. Bird's game didn't have holes like that.

Then when you consider that his stats are achieved by reducing teammates stats - this is statistical fact (see above post #9).. Furthermore, he can't shoot well at high volume, so he can't command a double-team, thus uncomplicating an opponent's defense - this is part of the reason he gets figured out and loses 3 straight in the Finals every time) - it's a horrific indictment on his game compared to his peers like Bird.

[dhsilv]

This ***** was never top 15 all-time.. He never achieved all-time stats unless:

1) he was losing (the 28/9/6 that he averaged in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs (when he actually won) are not all-time great stats,

2) reducing the stats of teammates (teammates averaged more PPG/APG before they played with Lebron.)
.

do you even watch basketball? Seriously dumbest thing you've said, and you say some stupid crap!

[Gileraracer]

If he continues his production from last years finals, he will only need 24 shot attempts per game to get 25 points per game. GOAT :bowdown:

[AirFederer]

Who cares as long as the Cavs play winning basketball?

[Goofsta Knicca]

He might as well grow a Danny Glover moustache and start telling the other team he's getting too old for this sh1t at the beginning of each game.

[Smoke117]

This ***** was never top 15 all-time.. He never achieved all-time stats unless:

1) he was losing (the 28/9/6 that he averaged in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs (when he actually won) are not all-time great stats,

2) reducing the stats of teammates (teammates averaged more PPG/APG before they played with Lebron.)
.

meltdown.

[J Shuttlesworth]

He looks a little stuff because of the back most likely

But he's still got some good ups. Getting up pretty high on some of the dunks lately. He's also been pretty quick when he feels like exploding. He's averaging 22/7/6 on 49% FG. Outside of his 3, he's been pretty good