The Classical Music thread

[Jasi]

Is there any classical music enthusiast on ISH?

If so, we can talk (and listen of course) here. :cheers:

I am aware that this thread will most likely be derailed but I'm giving i a try

[falc39]

Mozart is the GOAT

Chopin is the GOAT of the piano

Been listening to this one lately. Not exactly classical, but damn.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gH7zf8v1kU

[Jasi]

:D
I should have guessed that even a classical music discussion, on ISH, would have revolved around who's the GOAT.

Well I'll play along and say no, Beethoven is the GOAT.
And he's the GOAT on piano too.

Actually the second remark (in comparison to Chopin) is even less debatable than the first one in my book.

While Chopin takes the Romantic style to perfection, his work largely lacks variety. On the other hand Beethoven's cycle of piano sonatas and piano concerti has such depth to it and is much more influential to later developments of piano music.
I'd say that perhaps also Liszt, and certainly Mozart, are higher than Chopin in a "piano music ranking".

- I'm not diminishing Chopin who is a genius and whose music is extraordinarily balanced, intimate, and surely has inspired millions of composers and performers, but when I talk about influence I think more about "disruptive" influence. So not just an ideal model that other musicians look to replicate, but rather someone that leads future musicians towards exploring new paths.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Mozart is the GOAT

Chopin is the GOAT of the piano

Been listening to this one lately. Not exactly classical, but damn.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gH7zf8v1kU

:applause:

Nice rendition of Morricone's original. You'll hear most of his stuff in those old spaghetti westerns; great composer, and his music for the "Dollars" trilogy is just spectacular.

[LJJ]

I always keep an eye out on what's playing at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw and attend a performance once every other month or so. I don't like all the different styles, but I'm up for good concertos and symphonies.

It's funny when you go any other kind of musical performance you accept that the actual music will be quite flawed. You accept that the sound will not be perfect and the performance will be sloppy. You just hope the atmosphere is good, the performer is in good spirits and you get something that's good and fun enough for a friday night, but it's generally more about the overall experience than the music.


When you go see classical music in a decent hall performed by a good orchestra it's almost exactly the opposite. There is zero fluff, but you will probably hear the best version of that piece of music that you ever will hear in your life.

[Jasi]

I always keep an eye out on what's playing at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw and attend a performance once every other month or so. I don't like all the different styles, but I'm up for good concertos and symphonies.

It's funny when you go any other kind of musical performance you accept that the actual music will be quite flawed. You accept that the sound will not be perfect and the performance will be sloppy. You just hope the atmosphere is good, the performer is in good spirits and you get something that's good and fun enough for a friday night, but it's generally more about the overall experience.


When you go see classical music in a decent hall performed by a good orchestra it's almost exactly the opposite. There is zero fluff, but you will probably hear the best version of that piece of music that you ever will hear in your life.

This is true and I often wonder how the audience's approach has evolved in history. You always get to read how in '700 (but even as late as early '900) concert-going was in many instances a "popular" event, with a similar approach to the one we have today to rock/pop gigs.
But little about this is actually presented in detail in music history books. I'll keep searching.

PS Concertgebouw has appointed a Milan-born director, Daniele Gatti, from the next season on :cheers:

[rufuspaul]

:D
I should have guessed that even a classical music discussion, on ISH, would have revolved around who's the GOAT.

Well I'll play along and say no, Beethoven is the GOAT.
And he's the GOAT on piano too.

Actually the second remark (in comparison to Chopin) is even less debatable than the first one in my book.

While Chopin takes the Romantic style to perfection, his work largely lacks variety. On the other hand Beethoven's cycle of piano sonatas and piano concerti has such depth to it and is much more influential to later developments of piano music.
I'd say that perhaps also Liszt, and certainly Mozart, are higher than Chopin in a "piano music ranking".

- I'm not diminishing Chopin who is a genius and whose music is extraordinarily balanced, intimate, and surely has inspired millions of composers and performers, but when I talk about influence I think more about "disruptive" influence. So not just an ideal model that other musicians look to replicate, but rather someone that leads future musicians towards exploring new paths.


I've been working on Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata of late. It's a simple sounding piece but deceptively difficult. It has almost a subtle version of his usual "Sturm und Drang" with very delicate volume changes.

[Jailblazers7]

I've become a fan of Philip Glass after hearing Violin Concerto no. 1 a year ago. Blew my mind the first time I heard it.

[rufuspaul]

I've become a fan of Philip Glass after hearing Violin Concerto no. 1 a year ago. Blew my mind the first time I heard it.


Philip Glass Southpark Christmas Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9TeVdW8sYA)

[NumberSix]

Mozart is the GOAT

Chopin is the GOAT of the piano

Been listening to this one lately. Not exactly classical, but damn.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gH7zf8v1kU
Is he a white?

[DeuceWallaces]

When I studied classical in undergrad I loved Renaissance and 19th century romanticism. Tarrega, Sor, and Villa Lobos were my favorite guitarist-composers.

For piano I loved Chopin, Liszt, and Schoenberg.

Sadly, I sold my classical last year. Will probably regret it at some point down the line, but I just didn't play it anymore.

[Jailblazers7]

Philip Glass Southpark Christmas Song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9TeVdW8sYA)

:oldlol:

[DeuceWallaces]

Oh God I can't stand minimalism. **** Reich, Glass, worst damn month in Music Lit ever. I have nightmares about it 16 years later.

[falc39]

:D
I should have guessed that even a classical music discussion, on ISH, would have revolved around who's the GOAT.

Well I'll play along and say no, Beethoven is the GOAT.
And he's the GOAT on piano too.

Actually the second remark (in comparison to Chopin) is even less debatable than the first one in my book.

While Chopin takes the Romantic style to perfection, his work largely lacks variety. On the other hand Beethoven's cycle of piano sonatas and piano concerti has such depth to it and is much more influential to later developments of piano music.
I'd say that perhaps also Liszt, and certainly Mozart, are higher than Chopin in a "piano music ranking".

- I'm not diminishing Chopin who is a genius and whose music is extraordinarily balanced, intimate, and surely has inspired millions of composers and performers, but when I talk about influence I think more about "disruptive" influence. So not just an ideal model that other musicians look to replicate, but rather someone that leads future musicians towards exploring new paths.


lol hehe forgive me, I was right about to leave for work when I saw this thread, so I only had a minute to type the first couple of thoughts that came to my head. You definitely can make a case for Beethoven being the GOAT. I think the criteria I use and look for is if the music stands the test of time, and both Beethoven and Mozart's music definitely does that in flying colors. As for my own preferences and tastes, I prefer composers who have an elegant simplicity to their music. There is just something about Mozart and Chopin's music, with melodies that are so elegant and seamless, that puts them in another class for me when compared to others.

I would say that the only thing I disagree with what you mentioned is putting Liszt above Chopin. Being disruptive is also not something I factor in my criteria, but I can see why it has value to others and it is definitely something interesting to mention and talk about.

When you say that Chopin has little variety as a weakness, I see it as a strength, because he excels so well in what he does specialize in. Waltzes, Mazurkas, Preludes, Ballades, Noctournes, Etudes, etc... Not really your conventional composer. What impresses me the most about Chopin is that his style is completely unique (while staying very tonal) and how consistent he sticks to it with little need for experimentation. Obviously not a concert pianist, he still blazes his own path. I listen to other composers, I can easily hear their influences from the past. When I listen to Beethoven, I hear a lot of Mozart. etc. Chopin on the other hand, who is largely inspired by Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, sounds nothing like them. I find it really hard to categorize Chopin, who to me, is really an enigma, but yet his music still retains all that what is sought after in beautiful music. His music has shown to gain in popularity as time goes on, surprisingly with Asian cultures, especially Chinese, Japanese, and Korean performers and listeners. I feel he has done a lot more to get people interested in classical piano music and I would say the same with Beethoven in that regard. When it comes to Liszt, I find it hard to compare him to Chopin or rank above him. His music sometimes requires too much virtuosity and can even be technically difficult to a fault, sacrificing some of the qualities that make music enjoyable except to the most serious of performers and listeners.

[falc39]

Is he a white?

Mozart's Amadeus = MJ's Space Jam

GOAT

[Dresta]

I've been listening to Greig, Franck, Shostakovich and Debussy of late - tried and failed to get into Sibelius also.

My favourite piece at the moment has to be Brahms' 1st Cello Sonata (the Du-Pre/Barenboim interpretation.

As for Chopin, i'd have to say he reigns supreme in compositions for solo piano alone, particularly in the micro form: his mastery of that particular instrument and utilisation of harmony and texture exceeds that of Beethoven's piano music for sure (he is called a Romantic, but is never sentimental, only nostalgic and patriotic, bringing his own individuality to classical forms); though the latter is undoubtedly the master of the Sonata form, even though it was something he never took that seriously (composed them mostly just for money).

Essentially, they took a rather different approach to piano music, which meant far more to Chopin than it did to Beethoven.

[Jasi]

I've been working on Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata of late. It's a simple sounding piece but deceptively difficult. It has almost a subtle version of his usual "Sturm und Drang" with very delicate volume changes.

Yup. That Sonata has so much more to it than the simple arpeggio/melody everyone is familiar with.
It's easy to dismiss it as one of the "poppiest" works of LvB but it really isn't.

[Jasi]

I've become a fan of Philip Glass after hearing Violin Concerto no. 1 a year ago. Blew my mind the first time I heard it.

I will put it in my playlist.
I'm not a terrible fan of Glass but surely the commonplaces about his music do no justice to his oeuvre.

[ArbitraryWater]

Waiting for Beethoven to finish the 6th Symphony

[Jasi]

lol hehe forgive me, I was right about to leave for work when I saw this thread, so I only had a minute to type the first couple of thoughts that came to my head. You definitely can make a case for Beethoven being the GOAT. I think the criteria I use and look for is if the music stands the test of time, and both Beethoven and Mozart's music definitely does that in flying colors. As for my own preferences and tastes, I prefer composers who have an elegant simplicity to their music. There is just something about Mozart and Chopin's music, with melodies that are so elegant and seamless, that puts them in another class for me when compared to others.

I would say that the only thing I disagree with what you mentioned is putting Liszt above Chopin. Being disruptive is also not something I factor in my criteria, but I can see why it has value to others and it is definitely something interesting to mention and talk about.

When you say that Chopin has little variety as a weakness, I see it as a strength, because he excels so well in what he does specialize in. Waltzes, Mazurkas, Preludes, Ballades, Noctournes, Etudes, etc... Not really your conventional composer. What impresses me the most about Chopin is that his style is completely unique (while staying very tonal) and how consistent he sticks to it with little need for experimentation. Obviously not a concert pianist, he still blazes his own path. I listen to other composers, I can easily hear their influences from the past. When I listen to Beethoven, I hear a lot of Mozart. etc. Chopin on the other hand, who is largely inspired by Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, sounds nothing like them. I find it really hard to categorize Chopin, who to me, is really an enigma, but yet his music still retains all that what is sought after in beautiful music. His music has shown to gain in popularity as time goes on, surprisingly with Asian cultures, especially Chinese, Japanese, and Korean performers and listeners. I feel he has done a lot more to get people interested in classical piano music and I would say the same with Beethoven in that regard. When it comes to Liszt, I find it hard to compare him to Chopin or rank above him. His music sometimes requires too much virtuosity and can even be technically difficult to a fault, sacrificing some of the qualities that make music enjoyable except to the most serious of performers and listeners.

Yes let's start from the point that GOAT discussions or rankings are nothing but a playful way to look at composers and their work.
This said, I agree with everything you said about Chopin.
As for Liszt, what I love about him is the audacity and innovative scope of its compositions. He's definitely another composer whose general perception is skewed. Virtuosity was surely a great part of its work, and until I automatically made this association in my mind (Liszt = virtuoso piano playing) I had little to no interest in carefully exploring his music. But once I did, I could appreciate how - especially later in his life - he was a true innovator (not only in the piano domain but also for orchestral music). Chronologically he's a Romantic, but stylistically he's the true pioneer of the XX century.

[Jasi]

I've been listening to Greig, Franck, Shostakovich and Debussy of late - tried and failed to get into Sibelius also.

My favourite piece at the moment has to be Brahms' 1st Cello Sonata (the Du-Pre/Barenboim interpretation.

As for Chopin, i'd have to say he reigns supreme in compositions for solo piano alone, particularly in the micro form: his mastery of that particular instrument and utilisation of harmony and texture exceeds that of Beethoven's piano music for sure (he is called a Romantic, but is never sentimental, only nostalgic and patriotic, bringing his own individuality to classical forms); though the latter is undoubtedly the master of the Sonata form, even though it was something he never took that seriously (composed them mostly just for money).

Essentially, they took a rather different approach to piano music, which meant far more to Chopin than it did to Beethoven.

We are speaking of two absolute greats so it's a matter of tastes in the end.
Surely their approach was different, but as concerns its meaning to them I just don't know - except the objective fact that Chopin wrote almost exclusively for piano.

As for the rest, I do suggest you give one more chance to Sibelius' violin concerto which is one of the peaks of the genre imo - I prefer it over Beethoven's, just to mention him again.

[gigantes]

i just brought up google and saw THIS:

https://www.google.com/logos/2015/beethoven15/cta-bg.jpg


when you hit play, it turns in to this cool little game in which you have to assemble the pages of his compositions to make it to the next stage. you don't really need to read music to complete this, thankfully!

i don't remember google making games out of their logo other than the pacman one. pretty cool! :cheers:

[TomBrady]

Cool share!

[Smook B]

i just brought up google and saw THIS:

https://www.google.com/logos/2015/beethoven15/cta-bg.jpg


when you hit play, it turns in to this cool little game in which you have to assemble the pages of his compositions to make it to the next stage. you don't really need to read music to complete this, thankfully!

i don't remember google making games out of their logo other than the pacman one. pretty cool! :cheers:

Beat it so quickly cool game.

[Brunch@Five]

I spent most of the year listening to Robert Schumann. Very intense music, but the story behind it is almost more fascinating. Also worth noting that he was more recognized for being a music critic during his lifetime. Was married to the most famous female pianist of all time, but supposedly had a bipolar disorder and suffered from neuro-syphilis on top of that.
He spent the last years of his life in a mental asylum a few hundred meters from where I lived.

I love his "Kreisleriana" and his 4th symphony, which I had the pleasure to play with my University Orchestra.
His Lieder are also great.

4th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq98d0JOiKQ
Kreisleriana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdHH5DjYCk4