If Len Bias/ Reggie Lewis not died, would Celtics have won in the 90's?

[senelcoolidge]

If Len Bias and Reggie Lewis both not tragically died would the Celtics have won a championship in the 90's? Would the Bulls still have their 6 chips in that decade? Lewis was ready to take the torch from Bird. Bias was a beast coming out of college.

Lewis v. MJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpqwkczXES8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHB7TAoUUc

[swagga]

they'd keep jordan out of rings for the 1st 3peat.

[feyki]

they'd keep jordan out of rings for the 1st 3peat.

No , they were finished at 89 season .

[riseagainst]

MJ would have retired after 1990.

[D.J.]

No. Bulls still win. Celtics were done after '88 but they would've remained a playoff team through the mid-90s.

[3ball]

.
All Games of MJ vs. Lewis, starting SG vs. starting SG:


.........................Date............MP....... ....FG%....REB...AST.....PTS

Michael Jordan....12/6/88.... 43:00:00........0.70........9........5........38
Reggie Lewis...... 12/6/88.... 43:00:00.......0.54........6........4........33

Michael Jordan.... 1/15/89.... 41:00:00.......0.56........9.......11........42
Reggie Lewis...... 1/15/89.... 40:00:00.......0.52........7........3.........32

Michael Jordan.... 11/4/89.... 34:00:00.......0.55........5........6.........24
Reggie Lewis...... 11/4/89.... 35:00:00.......0.42........2........2.........15

Michael Jordan.... 3/4/90..... 40:00:00.......0.47........6.......11........36
Reggie Lewis...... 3/4/90..... 28:00:00.......0.33........3........1..........8

Michael Jordan.... 4/17/90.... 36:00:00.......0.54.......11.......6.........35
Reggie Lewis...... 4/17/90.... 37:00:00.......0.84........3........2.........24

Michael Jordan.... 4/20/90.... 35:00:00.......0.72........8.......9..........45
Reggie Lewis...... 4/20/90.... 40:00:00.......0.52........7.......4..........28

Michael Jordan.... 11/6/90.... 45:00:00.......0.50........8.......12........33
Reggie Lewis...... 11/6/90.... 19:00 :00......0.71.........2........1........13

Michael Jordan.... 11/9/90.... 34:00:00.......0.68........5........6.........41
Reggie Lewis...... 11/9/90.... 35:00:00.......0.35........4........3.........11

Michael Jordan.... 2/26/91.... 35:00:00.......0.58........8........4.........39
Reggie Lewis...... 2/26/91.... 23:00:00.......0.62........3........1.........10

Michael Jordan.... 3/31/91.... 51:00:00.......0.33........7........9.........37
Reggie Lewis...... 3/31/91.... 53:00:00.......0.50........3........2.........25

Michael Jordan.... 11/6/91.... 38:00:00.......0.62........3........6.........44
Reggie Lewis...... 11/6/91.... 38:00:00.......0.47........3........2.........21

Michael Jordan.... 12/25/91.. 35:00:00.......0.42........8........5.........14
Reggie Lewis...... 12/25/91.. 34:00:00.......0.47........6........2.........20

Michael Jordan.... 3/11/92.... 35:00:00.......0.60.......13.......3.........32
Reggie Lewis...... 3/11/92.... 30:00:00.......0.28........8........1.........11

Michael Jordan.... 4/5/92..... 40:00:00.......0.42........2........2.........26
Reggie Lewis...... 4/5/92..... 38:00:00.......0.46........1........7.........21

Michael Jordan.... 12/5/92.... 37:00:00.......0.40........3........5.........24
Reggie Lewis...... 12/5/92.... 36:00:00.......0.26........5........1.........12

Michael Jordan.... 1/18/93... 30:00:00.......0.45........8........3.........29
Reggie Lewis...... 1/18/93.... 37:00:00.......0.50........2........1.........21

Michael Jordan.... 4/4/93..... 40:00:00.......0.60........5........2.........32
Reggie Lewis...... 4/4/93..... 44:00:00.......0.22........5........2.........11


MJ's Averages: 33.6 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 6.2 APG, 54.2% FG

Here is footage of MJ vs. Lewis, starting SG vs. starting SG - footage (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19)

Source of Data: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=lewisre01#stats::none


Reggie did block MJ 4 times once tho

[Dro]

If Len Bias and Reggie Lewis both not tragically died would the Celtics have won a championship in the 90's? Would the Bulls still have their 6 chips in that decade? Lewis was ready to take the torch from Bird. Bias was a beast coming out of college.

Lewis v. MJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpqwkczXES8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qHB7TAoUUc
:biggums:

[senelcoolidge]

:biggums:

Disagree? Bird had a bad back was set to retire, but Reggie past away. Just bad luck on the Celtics part. Lewis was blooming into a regular All Star player.

MJ was impossible to guard. Anyone can have a bad game even the greatest. But Reggie could defend him well, I mean compared to most others even if MJ still got 30+ ppg.

[dhsilv]

Disagree? Bird had a bad back was set to retire, but Reggie past away. Just bad luck on the Celtics part. Lewis was blooming into a regular All Star player.

MJ was impossible to guard. Anyone can have a bad game even the greatest. But Reggie could defend him well, I mean compared to most others even if MJ still got 30+ ppg.

He would have likely been MJ's biggest rival (since the clear rival for MJ was on his team) and who knows how the celtics would have built around him. That's the key to anything like this, the celtics would have had a piece to build around. But what would they have used?

Also he clearly had a heart condition. Does he have a long enough career even if he doesn't die?

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I bet if Bowie got severely injured, ending his career before playing a game, he would be considered a hofer who we were robbed of.

[SHAQisGOAT]

IF Bias lived up to the potential/hype...

IF Bird wouldn't have retired in 1988 (cus he said he probably would've if Len hadn't died)...

IF the Celtics somehow managed to have Bias and Reggie...

Hell yes.
Let's not forget that, for example, in 1991 the Celtics STILL won 56 games despite Bird and McHale being total shells and playing post serious injuries, with a 37 years old Parish, no DJ or Ainge, and alongside Reggie the younger dudes were Brian Shaw, Kevin Gamble, Dee Brown and Ed Pinckney...

Shit, if Bias was really so NBA-ready as he seemed, he would've been balling from the get-go and the Celtics would've had a more than legit 6th man, a good/young/athletic forward to come in for Bird/McHale... That way Boston would've been better than they were in 1987 and, imo most importantly, Bird could've spared himself/his back more while McHale wouldn't have been playing as much as he did when he suffered that broken foot... Seeing that in 1987 the C's had virtually no bench and that also made the starters log in more minutes than ever before.
If Len hadn't died, Celtics most likely would've done more in 1987, 1988, and then for years to come...

[90sgoat]

He would have likely been MJ's biggest rival (since the clear rival for MJ was on his team

You talk a big game but clearly don't know that much.

MJ's biggest rival position wise in the early 90s was Clyde Drexler. In the playoff where Clyde made the finals he average 26-7-7 on 47FG% with 1.5 steals and 1 block.

If someone posted those numbers today you and everyone else would go crazy and call him the second coming.

[Collie]

Reggie Lewis was good but not THAT good. Even if Bias turned out great, you'd still be looking at a 50 win team at the most probably on the level of the Pacers and Hawks of the 90's. Dee Brown, Dino Radja - good players, but not really guys you'd rely on to win rings.

As for Len Bias, well. here's a good writeup on how he probably could have been:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4011 --- so all star level, but not GOAT level as many people seem to think (of course impossible to predict).

They weren't winning a ring either way.

[RoseCity07]

I had no idea who Reggie Lewis was before last night. I was that video of his last game. I'm more interested in seeing what Bias could have done. They say he was like Jordan. I doubt that but still.

[senelcoolidge]

Bias was 6'8" 210lbs with MJ athletic ability. He had a mid range jumper and could jump out of the gym. Of course he would not have been better or equal to MJ, but he could have been damn good.

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/czbghajawih2qs0z0fel.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SSHEQDz0--/dtij9oxthc0cv3ylsdgo.jpg

[Derka]

We'd have been better but the Bulls would still have owned the 90s.

[dhsilv]

You talk a big game but clearly don't know that much.

MJ's biggest rival position wise in the early 90s was Clyde Drexler. In the playoff where Clyde made the finals he average 26-7-7 on 47FG% with 1.5 steals and 1 block.

If someone posted those numbers today you and everyone else would go crazy and call him the second coming.

1. I think Pippen is MUCH better than Drexler.
2. I think bias could have been better than Pippen.

Not sure why you're posting stats on a guy, you CLEARLY have to assume I know about. Have I not at least shown I'm pretty aware of the league at this point? Now if you disagree with my opinions that's cool. I stand buy Pippen was better than drexler and we can discuss that, but seriously I feel like we've exchanged some pretty detailed conversations at this point. I'd hope at this point you realize I know the game and the history. We can disagree, but drop the insults.



and i reread what I replied too, damn.

Lewis might have been a huge rival due to conference.

I was thinking about bias as I think he'd have been a huge rival for jordan. Sure not his position but he'd have guarded MJ often. Sorry yeah that was a bad post.

Lewis was an issue for MJ. He made MJ work like few others, but rival is a bit strong.

[greymatter]

A better question would be whether or not Detroit ever gets those 2 titles. Bird already had a bum back before Bias got drafted, but McHale might not have broken his foot in 87 if Bias was there to reduce his minutes.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Bias was 6'8" 210lbs with MJ athletic ability. He had a mid range jumper and could jump out of the gym. Of course he would not have been better or equal to MJ, but he could have been damn good.

http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/czbghajawih2qs0z0fel.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SSHEQDz0--/dtij9oxthc0cv3ylsdgo.jpg

Bias already had very close to a NBA-ready body in college, while he was 6'8 and pretty long, a freak of an athlete, with a good soft-touch, already a good jumper while releasing it at the apex of his jump (jumping out of the gym), good footwork, defensive instincts, putting in the effort on the boards... Imo, he would've been just a great player to say the least.

Here's Bias vs Jordan in college:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4u4MdSGSDo