If Lebron is great, why does he need a big three?

[JohnMax]

http://i.imgur.com/OiKV9gF.png
http://i.imgur.com/vze5SJI.jpg

[iTare]

idk man. all i know is that during the playoffs both of those big 3s didn't always look like a big 3. it's all about actual plays not career stats, but a lot of you don't get that. :lol

[Cocaine80s]

Because he wasnt blessed with a Shaq or Pippen

[dubeta]

Outside of 2011, LeBron never had a big 3

2012 : Bosh injured

2013: Wade 15 ppg Bosh 12 ppg

2014: Wade and Bosh were role players

2015: Kyrie Love were injured


Love wasnt even an all star last year.




So no, LeBron never had a big 3

[Levity]

idk man. all i know is that during the playoffs both of those big 3s didn't always look like a big 3. it's all about actual plays not career stats, but a lot of you don't get that. :lol

i think you could put a fair amount of the blame for those guys always under-performing on the fact that theyve all seen themselves as first options prior to teaming up. theyre all worldly talents, but adjusting their game to fit their leader in james, seems to be a struggle for every single one of them.

had lebron teamed up with legit 2nd options/non ball dominant players, it would have been a completely different story. IE: marc gasol and a klay thompson-like player.

those type of guys compliment him and his game worlds better.

[knicksman]

only his idiot fans thinks he is. Colluding means they arent the best. Insecurities means youre not the best. And statpadders are insecure losers. Just look at wilt and oscar and now lebron. They have one thing in common. The L in their balding heads.

[iTare]

i think you could put a fair amount of the blame for those guys always under-performing on the fact that theyve all seen themselves as first options prior to teaming up. theyre all worldly talents, but adjusting their game to fit their leader in james, seems to be a struggle for every single one of them.

had lebron teamed up with legit 2nd options/non ball dominant players, it would have been a completely different story. IE: marc gasol and a klay thompson-like player.

those type of guys compliment him and his game worlds better.
100% agree. I think him and kyrie are going to develop that kind of chemistry though.

[Hey Yo]

only his idiot fans thinks he is. Colluding means they arent the best. Insecurities means youre not the best. And statpadders are insecure losers. Just look at wilt and oscar and now lebron. They have one thing in common. The L in their balding heads.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/colluding
Dictionary.com
to act together through a secret understanding, especially with evil or harmful intent. 2. to conspire in a fraud

[Mr. Jabbar]

Cause he isnt

[iTare]

Anyone with 4 mvps is great.

[FKAri]

I guess Duncan, Kareem, Magic, Bird etc weren't great. Thanks for the info OP.

[pauk]

If Jordan was great why did he need a big 3 or 4 or 5+ (goat coach):

http://blogstorage.s3.amazonaws.com/upload/SportsBlogcom/151330/0838674001437175534_filepicker.jpg

If Russell was great why did he need a big 11:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rNljJ4Wzs4w/VJgXDI8wQII/AAAAAAAAD98/h8qXkL0weVo/s1600/Naulls-Celtics-team-photo-1965.jpg

If Wilt was great why did he need a big 3+:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/58/cc/54/58cc54f25d024cf04913ae69e5531daf.jpg

If Magic was great why did he need a big 3+:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/4/49974/1798866-lakers.jpg

If Bird was great why did he need a big 5+:

http://www.nbaarena.com/img/haberler/boston-celtics-80s.jpg

If Shaq was great why did he need a big 3+ or 4 or 5:

https://36.media.tumblr.com/ecafe53d0ec901ee234a9d2503b55d99/tumblr_njz34nOnl31sbxj8ao1_500.jpg
http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IFWT-KICKS-AIR-JORDAN-CONCORDS-KOBE-BYRANY-LA-LAKERS-SHAQ-PHIL-JACKSON-GARY-PAYTON-KARL-MALONE.jpg
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/06/07/heat-vets-topper.jpg

If Kobe was great.....................

If Duncan was....................

If...........

.......


Do you get the point yet or do i need to continue forever?

[Spurs m8]

Because he's just not that great tbh

[pauk]

Hell when you think about it compared to the usual top 5-10 suspects Lebron had the absolute least to work with the LEAST TIME aswell.... WHEN he had the best lineup/best help (where they were also relatively healthy & so on) he had it only for 2-4 seasons....

[poido123]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

[dubeta]

I regard Greats as top 20 all time.


Good, cause lebron never had a top 20 player

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Curry and Dirk have both won Championships recently without having a big 3.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

Lol, well then LeBron didn't either considering Wade wouldn't make most peoples top 20

[poido123]

Good, cause lebron never had a top 20 player


Top 20 in the league, which is pretty similar to what most of the greats had, only that on those great teams they built their greatness together in most cases.


There wasn't a deliberate collusion to gain an edge on the competition. The greats of the previous era wanted to beat each other, not join each other.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Last I checked, a basketball team has 5 players on the court at a time.

[pauk]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

Why is every occasion of owning trolls with their own stupid logic a "meltdown", shit doesnt make sense :biggums:

and for your last paragraph, exactly, then surely Lebron never had a "Big 3" (or at least, u cant call Bosh/Wade GREATS) unless you think Bosh/Wade > Moses Malone / Hakeem / Oscar Robertson and stuff like that....

[knicksman]

curry is the opposite of lebron. Not insecure about his status as the best so no need to statpad. Thats why hes underrated which resulted in him not winning the FMVP. But the most determining stat of how good you are, clutch and not just RS clutch but the clutchiest of all,(4th qrtrs in the finals) he is 3rd all time and above all jordans 4th quarters with the highest TS%. Meanwhile bran knows hes not the best so he compensates that with statpadding and fool idiots into believing hes the best. But in the end, he is shit in 4th qrtrs which exposes the true lebron just like wilt. And its no surprise theyre at least 2/6.

[Hey Yo]

Top 20 in the league, which is pretty similar to what most of the greats had, only that on those great teams they built their greatness together in most cases.


There wasn't a deliberate collusion to gain an edge on the competition. The greats of the previous era wanted to beat each other, not join each other.



Definition.

Collusion:

noun


secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

"there had been collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups"
___________

When has the definition above happened in the NBA? Who got away with illegal activity by cheating?

[knicksman]

Definition.

Collusion:

noun


secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

"there had been collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups"
___________

When has the definition above happened in the NBA? Who got away with illegal activity by cheating?

Bro, bran is a fakkit. Real men dont cheat. Real men compete with other men not join them. Real talk

[tmacattack33]

I didn't see a big 3 in last years playoffs but he still took Cleveland to the Finals and gave Golden State a more competitive series than anyone else did.

And I didn't see a big 3 in 2012 when he won the title.

[hiphopfan777]

So did bosh. He was a career loser till he team up with lebron james

[GrapeApe]

It's no coincidence that nearly every all-time great with multiple rings had HOF teammates. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Russell was surrounded by HOFers. Wilt had Greer and West. Kareem had Magic and vice versa. Shaq had Kobe and Wade. Bird had McHale and Parrish. Duncan had Ginobli and Parker. Kobe had Shaq and Gasol. Lebron had Wade and Bosh. Hakeem had Drexler.

The point is, everyone needs help and every team to ever win a championship was a great team. Some were obviously better than others, but it's literally impossible to win a championship at the highest level in the top league in the world without being a great team and having great contributions from multiple players. It can't be done.

The big 3 Heat were top heavy with talent but they were always flawed teams 1-12. If any one of the big 3 was injured or underperformed, the team struggled. We saw it in the 2011 finals when Lebron underperformed. We saw it in 2012 when Bosh was hurt. We saw it in 2013 when Wade was hurt. Just because those teams had a big 3 doesn't mean they were as strong top to bottom as several other championship teams.

[LAKingKobe]

Because after playing 7 years with a Big (-3) M.Williams, Z.Ilgauskus, Mike Brown, he decided to screw it and actually go to a good team.

[bukowski81]

Definition.

Collusion:

noun


secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.

"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

"there had been collusion between the security forces and paramilitary groups"
___________

When has the definition above happened in the NBA? Who got away with illegal activity by cheating?

Dont be so dense, thats not the only definition of collusion

DEFINITION of 'Collusion'
A non-competitive agreement between rivals that attempts to disrupt the market's equilibrium.

[poido123]

Dont be so dense, thats not the only definition of collusion

DEFINITION of 'Collusion'
A non-competitive agreement between rivals that attempts to disrupt the market's equilibrium.



:applause:


Damn. :banana: :banana:

[Straight_Ballin]

If Lebron is great, why does he need a big three?

Because he needs all the help he can get. He's 2/6.

[SpecialQue]

If Shaq was great why did he need a big 3+ or 4 or 5:

https://36.media.tumblr.com/ecafe53d0ec901ee234a9d2503b55d99/tumblr_njz34nOnl31sbxj8ao1_500.jpg


ISH: Where Derek Fisher has the same impact as Kyrie Irving.

[Straight_Ballin]

If bron was so great, why can't he win without any other superstars?

Never seemed to be a problem for Billups, who had Prince, the Wallace's and Rip. None of them were superstars. :confusedshrug:

[Smook A.]

It's not about having a big three, its about having a really good supporting cast. No matter how good one player is, his team WILL NEVER win a championship unless the team he's playing on is well built from top to bottom. 05-06 Kobe is an example. The guy's numbers were absolutely absurd (35/5/5 on 45/35/85% shooting). Lakers finished with a 45-37 record that year and eventually lost in the 1st round of the playoffs. Anyone who says things like "only a loser needs that many stars on his team" is stupid. If you look back, every star player that won a ring had a great supporting cast around them. People, especially here, act as if LeBron is the first guy to win a champion with a legit star or stars around him. Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Timmy had D-Rob, Parker, Ginobili, Leonard, and now Aldridge. Shaq had Kobe and D-Wade. Kobe had Pau, and Shaq. Wade had Shaq, LeBron, and Bosh. List goes on and on.

[3ball]

.
Lebron needs an overload of talent to overcome the fact that his presence reduces the stats of teammates - this is statistical fact - Lebron significantly reduces the apg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) of Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Love and Bosh, while also cratering Bosh and Love's ppg.

When a star player's stats are achieved at the expense of teammates, the team will need those teammates to have crazy amazing stats BEFORE they joined the team, so that when Lebron reduces them, it's still enough to win the championship.. This is what happened with Bosh and Love, the greatest third options in the history of the game - their stats were spectacular before teaming with Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
This is what happened with Bosh and Love, the greatest third options in the history of the game

:lol


their stats were spectacular before teaming with Lebron

How did they do in the playoffs before teaming with LeBron?

[PsychoBe]

:lol



How did they do in the playoffs before teaming with LeBron?

better than anyone else's third option did

[dubeta]

.
Lebron needs an overload of talent to overcome the fact that his presence reduces the stats of teammates - this is statistical fact - Lebron significantly reduces the apg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841) of Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Love and Bosh, while also cratering Bosh and Love's ppg.

When a star player's stats are achieved at the expense of teammates, the team will need those teammates to have crazy amazing stats BEFORE they joined the team, so that when Lebron reduces them, it's still enough to win the championship.. This is what happened with Bosh and Love, the greatest third options in the history of the game - their stats were spectacular before teaming with Lebron.

The funny thing is MJ's 4th option, Kukoc, was better than LeBrons 3rd, Bosh

[dubeta]

better than anyone else's third option did

Better than champion Rodman? :lol :lol

[PsychoBe]

Better than champion Rodman? :lol :lol

defensive roleplayer

[04mzwach]

Lebron needs the big 3 because it's possible for him to win without them but it's easier to win with them. I could physically do all the work at my job but why do it when you can work with others and sustain a longer career? He doesn't need to carry a big load when he can have others carry some of it.

[Foster5k]

Reporter: "Lebron, why do you need a big 3?"

LeBron: "Salary cap will not allow a big 4."

[Gileraracer]

Because he isn't available in 4th quarters :lol

:(

[Magic 32]

https://gametimersnation.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/antoine.jpg

[StephHamann]

Why is a muslim from Europe stanning Lebron so hard? Is he so turned on by his bbc?

:biggums:

[tobethdope]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

u r right, u just phrased it wrong; its about franchise players, lebald now plays for the second time with 2 other guys that have been considered franchise players for their respective teams prior to that, thats just unheard of, none of pauks example is similar if u exclude the lakers with players way past their prime...3 franchise players in their prime teaming up has almost never happened in nba history, the only other example that comes to mind is the celtics with KG ect (and they even just had one year left in their prime..(and funnily enuf one of them joins lebald as a role player right after :applause: ))
when pippen joined mj he wasn't considered top 20 or so or a franchise player, same goes for virtually any other team of which u can say now that they had like 3 or 4 great players
what lebald did is a complete joke, u don't need more then two hands to count the players who teamed up with 2 other franchise players in their prime in nba history and ****ing lebald has done it twice:applause: :applause:

wp lebald wp

[imdaman99]

Nobody wins titles alone you idiot.

You think Steph Curry did it alone? He couldn't even win Finals MVP, that's how stacked his team was. Not saying Klay or Green or Iggy are stars, but they all were important in winning.

[ShawkFactory]

Are Bosh and Love both better than Worthy and Parish?

[ralph_i_el]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

:facepalm Wade and Bosh are top 20 all time?

Bosh went from being a 1st option to a really good "role player". Last season we saw Love become a "role player". "Role Players" have a huge impact on the game you know. Who would you rather have as your third best player, Bosh or Rodman? Knowing they aren't going to get many/any plays called for them.

[HurricaneKid]

only his idiot fans thinks he is. Colluding means they arent the best. Insecurities means youre not the best. And statpadders are insecure losers. Just look at wilt and oscar and now lebron. They have one thing in common. The L in their balding heads.

You have a strange definition of loser. Especially for a Knicks fan. Out of curiosity, who was the last Knick that wasn't a loser?

[HurricaneKid]

Pauk having a meltdown :lol


Have another look at those examples. A big 3 DOES NOT include vital roleplayers :hammerhead:


jordan had Pippen, rodman was a very good role player.


kobe had shaq

magic had kareem


bird had some really solid top 100 players but not GREATS. I regard Greats as top 20 all time.

Rodman is a role player? GTFO. You think the best rebounder and defender of the last 40 years is less valuable than a 3rd scorer? WTF is wrong with you?

Bird had Bill Walton coming off the bench. MVP and Finals MVP couldn't start over Parish and McHale. Magic had Bob McAdoo coming off the bench. McAdoo once avg 34.5ppg. Ron Harper avg >20ppg the season before he went to the Bulls.

[Derka]

Because teams win championships, you nitwit.

[BarberSchool]

If he were truly great, he wouldn't have needed so much help to drag him to 1.5 chips.

Also, he wouldn't need:

Winstrol
Deca-Durabolin
Human Growth Hormone
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin

[3ball]

If he were truly great, he wouldn't have needed so much help to drag him to 1.5 chips.

Also, he wouldn't need:

Winstrol
Deca-Durabolin
Human Growth Hormone
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin


:applause:

He isn't even capable of good efficiency at high volume - the 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume playoffs and we saw what happened when the high volume (27 fga) forced him to stray from his normal diet of 3-pointers and layups - he shot an abysmal 41%.. Unfortunately, Lebron has poor efficiency at the additional midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting, so he can't shoot well at high volume or require a double-team to PREVENT high volume.

In the Finals, he only shot 39% - it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so they encouraged his high volume by not double-teaming.. They only double-teamed him 18 times in the entire Finals.. Compare that to MJ, where his high efficiency at high volume caused teams to double-team him 10+ times in a single quarter, as standard (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210) - teams couldn't afford high volume from Jordan, since it was accompanied by high efficiency too..

But the real holy grail of basketball skill is far greater than controlling pace with high volume like Lebron, or adding good efficiency to the high volume like MJ.. The real holy grail of basketball skill is good efficiency at high volume while winning championships because the high volume must be achieved within the team concept - the high volume must be achieved without diminishing teammates' statistics so the team can reach it's ceiling and be a championship team..

MJ (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem (1995) are the only players that reached the holy grail of basketball skill by achieving high efficiency at high volume while winning a championship (25+ shot attempts on 45%+ during the playoffs).. Ultimately, their elite midrange efficiency allowed them to shoot well at high volume.. As you can see, midrange is the key to goat-level skill.. In MJ's case, he averaged an amazing 25.1 shot attempts in the playoffs on 49%.. When you compare his per 100 stats to other wings (playoffs stats shown below), it's clear that he did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:

JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts

[KirbyPls]

If he were truly great, he wouldn't have needed so much help to drag him to 1.5 chips.

Also, he wouldn't need:

Winstrol
Deca-Durabolin
Human Growth Hormone
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin

MJ Stanley discussing PEDs, as if his idol wasn't on them either. :lol

[riseagainst]

because he just isn't that good of a player.

[3ba11]

Broussard said the Lakers will have a "puncher's chance" to be a contender with AD

If Lebron can barely contend with AD, then he's obviously nowhere near goat - he only won in 2020 because AD was the statistical leader in regular season and playoffs.. Otherwise, Lebron is lottery out West without AD, while a good team wasn't needed to win the East most years, so he never carried teams