The statistical value of college

[3ball]

http://www.hackcollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/UNC-CH-Campus-11.jpg


Compare performance as 21-year old versus championship-level teams and #1-ranked defenses:


Jordan vs. 1986 Celtics: 44 ppg on 51%

minus

Kobe.. vs. 2000 Pacers: 16 ppg on 37%
Lebron vs. 2007. Spurs: 22 ppg on 35%
____________________________________
Value of college = between 21-27 ppg and between 14-16% fg.... :eek:



This is as good of an analysis that I've seen on the topic
.

[buddha]

it's about a 15 million dollar difference bro.

[3ball]

it's about a 15 million dollar difference bro.
oh, i meant statistical value in terms of basketball production

[sdot_thadon]

http://www.hackcollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/UNC-CH-Campus-11.jpg


Compare how far they progessed in the playoffs as 21-year old:


Jordan vs. 1986 Celtics: 1st round

minus

Kobe.. vs. 2000 Pacers: champions
Lebron vs. 2007. Spurs: finals
____________________________________
Value of college = finals vs. 1st round sweep..... :eek:



This is as good of an analysis that I've seen on the topic
.
Indeed.

[SwishSquared]

Also is the difference between the 1st round and the Finals in your analysis.

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan was also taught by one of the greatest basketball coaches in the history of the game

[3ball]

Also is the difference between the 1st round and the Finals in your analysis.
that isn't statistical value.. this thread is about the statistical value which is between 21-27 ppg and between 14-16% fg

[FKAri]

Indeed.

http://media.giphy.com/media/97H9x4C52q82Q/giphy.gif

lol @ 3ball's response

"this thread isnt about that"

Ofcourse. Why would you want your own thread to be about you getting ass raped?

[SwishSquared]

that isn't statistical value.. this thread is about the statistical value which is between 21-27 ppg and between 14-16% fg4th round-1st round= +3 increase in value of final round of playoffs reached.

It's a numerical value, thus a measurable value.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Indeed.


:applause:

[3ball]

lol @ 3ball's response

"this thread isnt about that"

Ofcourse. Why would you want your own thread to be about you getting ass raped?


You guys all have the same response to the facts - play dumb..

We're only comparing their performance against championship-level teams and top defenses, so it's apples to apples - obviously, MJ played his championship team and #1 defense in the 1st Round, while Lebron and Kobe didn't face that theirs until the Finals.

Kobe was actually very horrible the whole 2000 playoffs, and it was his 4th season.. He only averaged 21 ppg on 44%.. That's better than Pippen most years, but Shaq still had to carry the team (although Shaq's career and peak playoff/Finals stats are materially worse than Jordan's, showing Jordan carried his teams more).

Btw, show me a single playoffs series where MJ's stats were anywhere near as bad as Kobe and Lebron's were here... Kobe and Lebron both have MANY series where their stats were at this same atrocious level.

[ShawkFactory]

You guys all have the same response to the facts - play dumb..

We're only comparing their performance against championship-level teams and top defenses, so it's apples to apples - obviously, MJ played his championship team and #1 defense in the 1st Round, while Lebron and Kobe didn't face that theirs until the Finals.

Kobe was actually very horrible the whole 2000 playoffs, and it was his 4th season.. He only averaged 21 ppg on 44%.. That's better than Pippen most years, but Shaq still had to carry the team (although Shaq's career and peak playoff/Finals stats are materially worse than Jordan's, showing Jordan carried his teams more).

Btw, show me a single playoffs series where MJ's stats were anywhere near as bad as Kobe and Lebron's were here... Kobe and Lebron both have MANY series where their stats were at this same atrocious level.
This is why I find it funny that Kobe fans applaud you. If Kobe were at his peak right now they'd realize what you're all about too.

[RRR3]

This is why I find it funny that Kobe fans applaud you. If Kobe were at his peak right now they'd realize what you're all about too.
No one ever accused Kobe fans of having strong critical thinking skills.

[ShawkFactory]

No one ever accused Kobe fans of having strong critical thinking skills.
It's just funny. They see someone jumping all over Lebron and they're on board. Now that Curry seems to be taking over everyone will realize that it isn't actually about Lebron at all, but more about 3ball being insecure :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Empty stats, first round sweep.

[3ball]

This is why I find it funny that Kobe fans applaud you. If Kobe were at his peak right now they'd realize what you're all about too.



Kobe > Lebron easily, although Reggie destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals, averaging 24 ppg to Kobe's 15.. Reggie would've done the same thing to Lebron in 2007 or 2011, only his Pacers would've won.

You forget that Reggie was a playoff legend - he was the hero against the Knicks in various wars, he almost beat MJ in 1998 ECF, and destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals..

Reggie > Vince Carter, Ray Allen... Playoff Stats:


Miller.: 20.6 ppg.. 44.9 fg.. 60.4 ts.. 119 ortg.. 19.5 PER.. 0.180 ws/48
Carter: 19.1 ppg.. 41.3 fg.. 51.2 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.6 PER.. 0.125 ws/48
Allen..: 16.1 ppg.. 44.3 fg.. 58.5 ts.. 115 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.143 ws/48

rebs, ast, stl, and blk, dbpm negligible

[3ball]

Empty stats, first round sweep.


You have to understand - playing a superior brand of basketball is how teams win when they have equal or lesser talent than the opponent.

This is where the term "empty stats" comes from.. When a team loses despite having equal or greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent several times - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe > Lebron easily, although Reggie destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals, averaging 24 ppg to Kobe's 15.. Reggie would've done the same thing to Lebron in 2007 or 2011, only his Pacers would've won.

You forget that Reggie was a playoff legend - he was the hero against the Knicks in various wars, he almost beat MJ in 1998 ECF, and destroyed Kobe in 2000 Finals..

Reggie > Vince Carter, Ray Allen... Playoff Stats:


Miller.: 20.6 ppg.. 44.9 fg.. 60.4 ts.. 119 ortg.. 19.5 PER.. 0.180 ws/48
Carter: 19.1 ppg.. 41.3 fg.. 51.2 ts.. 106 ortg.. 18.6 PER.. 0.125 ws/48
Allen..: 16.1 ppg.. 44.3 fg.. 58.5 ts.. 115 ortg.. 16.3 PER.. 0.143 ws/48

rebs, ast, stl, and blk, dbpm negligible
:wtf:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

First round sweep.

Agreed, empty stats.

[3ball]

Agreed, empty stats.


You have a misunderstanding about empty stats.

When a team loses despite having greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball, rendering his stats empty - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

[swagga]

You have a misunderstanding about empty stats.

When a team loses despite having greater talent, that means their brand of basketball was inferior, rendering the stats "empty", since they were achieved within a system that couldn't win (so the system ended up being more to stat-pad than win).

Lebron has lost several times when his team had equal or greater talent - of course, this was due to an inferior brand of basketball, rendering his stats empty - this happened in the 2009 ECF, 2011 Finals, and 2014 Finals, rendering the stats he achieved in those series, empty.

michael jordan's brand of basketball is the greatest. NIKE :applause:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

First round sweep.

I agree, empty stats. Glad to see we're on the same page.

Winning in the finals > losing in the finals > first round sweep.

[3ball]

I agree, empty stats. Glad to see we're on the same page.


Lebron lost too, but his stats weren't empty, just like MJ's stats weren't empty.

Definition of empty stats: when a player loses despite his team having greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior brand of basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You're right, LeBron made it to the finals while Jordan was swept in the first round. Empty stats.

Agreed.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron lost too, but his stats weren't empty, just like MJ's stats weren't empty.

Definition of empty stats: when a player loses despite his team having greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior brand of basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.
You mean YOUR definition? As it pertains to your quest to downplay Lebron

[3ball]

You mean YOUR definition? As it pertains to your quest to downplay Lebron
It isn't my definition - when a team with less talent wins, they overcame the talent deficit by playing a superior brand of basketball.

Anytime a player loses when his had greater talent, his stats are "empty" because his scoring was part of the inferior basketball that allowed the other team to overcome their talent deficit.. The inferior brand of basketball was better at padding stats than winning.

Lebron's inferior brand of basketball allowed opponents to overcome a talent deficit or stalemate in 2009, 2011, and 2015... And if Kyrie had been there in 2015 Finals, then 2015 too.

Otoh, MJ never lost with equal or greater talent - anytime he lost, his team had less talent, so his stats were never empty.
.

[JohnFreeman]

Indeed.
:applause:

[KobesFinger]

Wasn't Jordan was 23 in '86?

[oarabbus]

Agreed.


Didn't realize that MJ's opponents were so weak.

[Gus Hemmingway]

Wasn't Jordan was 23 in '86?

Yes

MJ was drafted at age 21, in 1986 he was 23-24 years old

OP's narrative and comparison is based on false information

in 1984, when Jordan was 21, Chicago played and lost to the Bucks

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Didn't realize that MJ's opponents were so weak.

It seems that he just wasn't good enough to even make it past the first round. Pippen saved his legacy. Thanks to 3ball for showing us the light.

[AcquiringSteak]

As a student of stats, this is just horrendous. There are so many errors in this "analysis" that I can't tell if it's a joke or not.

[dhsilv]

that isn't statistical value.. this thread is about the statistical value which is between 21-27 ppg and between 14-16% fg

What is your R^2 value from your regression analysis? Where are the stats?

[Gus Hemmingway]

As a student of stats, this is just horrendous. There are so many errors in this "analysis" that I can't tell if it's a joke or not.


Just start from the title, Jordan wasnt 21 when they played the Celtics, he was 23

[Duffy Pratt]

We are getting statistical values here from sample sizes of one, on the one hand, and two on the other. And the samples are from subjects who are, almost by definition, outliers anyways.

I wonder though. If this is the value of college, is 3Ball suggesting that Jordan would have been worse than LeBron or Kobe if he had faced his first championship team in the playoffs coming straight out of high school? Somehow, I think not.

[3ball]

Yes

OP's narrative and comparison is based on false information

MJ was drafted at age 21, in 1986 he was 23-24 years old


Lies - MJ was 23 years, 2 months when he played Boston in 86' playoffs, compared to 22 years, 6 months when Lebron played Spurs in 07'.

That's a difference of 8 months... That's essentially the same age, and not enough to explain MJ doubling him up:

Jordan vs. 86' Celtics: 44/6/6 on 51%
Lebron vs. 07' Spurs.: 22/7/6 on 35%

[swagga]

Lies - MJ was 23 years, 2 months when he played Boston in 86' playoffs, compared to 22 years, 6 months when Lebron played Spurs in 07'.

That's a difference of 8 months... That's essentially the same age, and not enough to explain MJ doubling him up:

Jordan vs. 86' Celtics: 44/6/6 on 51%
Lebron vs. 07' Spurs.: 22/7/6 on 35%

poster: jordan was 23
3ball: lies, jordan was 23.

Son, don't drink yourself to death only because these lebron stans at realgm pwned your ass. Live to fight another day :lol

[3ball]

poster: jordan was 23
3ball: lies, jordan was 23.

Son, don't drink yourself to death only because these lebron stans at realgm pwned your ass. Live to fight another day :lol
realgm just banned me.. they didn't refute any of my arguments and neither have you:

1) Lebron isn't capable of good efficiency at high volume

2) Lebron achieve stats by reducing his teammates stats


These aren't my opinions.. They're statistical facts that I'm informing you of.