Putin sends 4,000 troops to Syria

[sammichoffate]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/617112/Vladimir-Putin-Islamic-State-ISIS-Syria-Bashar-Assad-Iraq-Moscow
The next Vietnam/Korea

[Patrick Chewing]

Kill those ISIS savages. The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

[West-Side]

The entire world should be praising Putin's proactive nature of stopping terrorism.

:applause:

[dunksby]

Kill'em.

[DonDadda59]

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish with only 4,000 troops? :confusedshrug:

Assad has about 200,000 troops under his command and they're getting their shit pushed in by ISIS and other rebel groups?


The next Vietnam/Korea

Basically. I assume this is just the first step in a pointless war that will keep escalating. Russia will commit more troops in the coming months/years, accomplish nothing except deplete an already struggling economy. Meanwhile ISIS will amp up its terror campaign and the Russian public will eventually turn against Putin and the war. Rinse and repeat, these nigguhs never learn.

[UK2K]

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish with only 4,000 troops? :confusedshrug:

Assad has about 200,000 troops under his command and they're getting their shit pushed in by ISIS and other rebel groups?



Basically. I assume this is just the first step in a pointless war that will keep escalating. Russia will commit more troops in the coming months/years, accomplish nothing except deplete an already struggling economy. Meanwhile ISIS will amp up its terror campaign and the Russian public will eventually turn against Putin and the war. Rinse and repeat, these nigguhs never learn.

Poorly trained. Poorly equipped. The Iraqi army has 2,000,000 troops, but 95% of them are completely worthless. That's not an exaggeration, they are completely worthless.

Plus, it only takes one to call in air strikes.

[DonDadda59]

Poorly trained. Poorly equipped. The Iraqi army has 2,000,000 troops, but 95% of them are completely worthless. That's not an exaggeration, they are completely worthless.

Plus, it only takes one to call in air strikes.

Putin has already called in probably dozens of airstrikes at this point.

ISIS carried out one terrorist attack on one Russian plane.

Which has been more effective for each side's respective position/goals thus far?

You're a military man... do you think 4,000 troops will make even a dent in ISIS' capabilities (and let's be serious here... his original target wasn't even ISIS)?

[West-Side]

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish with only 4,000 troops? :confusedshrug:

Assad has about 200,000 troops under his command and they're getting their shit pushed in by ISIS and other rebel groups?



Basically. I assume this is just the first step in a pointless war that will keep escalating. Russia will commit more troops in the coming months/years, accomplish nothing except deplete an already struggling economy. Meanwhile ISIS will amp up its terror campaign and the Russian public will eventually turn against Putin and the war. Rinse and repeat, these nigguhs never learn.

:facepalm

4,000 highly trained troops, with actual weapons.
You think he's sending in 4,000 privates? He's sending some of his elites.

This is no different than Mogadishu.
But pencil pushers tough guys like you sitting behind a computer only love to criticize.

How is this war pointless?
These animals have killed hundreds, if not, thousands of innocent people all over the world. At least Putin is attempting to neutralize them.

:oldlol: @ comparing Assad's troops to Russian.
What's next, you'll compare Somalian's to British and Israeli special forces too?

[fiddy]

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish with only 4,000 troops? :confusedshrug:

Assad has about 200,000 troops under his command and they're getting their shit pushed in by ISIS and other rebel groups?


There's no such thing as rebel group, those are terrorist funded by U.S.' buddies SA, Turkey and Qatar. Assad does not have 200k soldiers, what he has is under-armed tired army, with soviet weaponry.

[DonDadda59]

:facepalm

4,000 highly trained troops, with actual weapons.
You think he's sending in 4,000 privates? He's sending some of his elites.

And the people who they're going to fight don't have actual weapons? :confusedshrug:

How do you think ISIS has gained so much land in so little time? They faced off against highly equipped Iraqi and Syrian soldiers... by asking nicely?


This is no different than Mogadishu.
But pencil pushers tough guys like you sitting behind a computer only love to criticize.

I don't think I presently own a pencil. :lol


How is this war pointless?
These animals have killed hundreds, if not, thousands of innocent people all over the world. At least Putin is attempting to neutralize them.

And people STILL don't get why sending in planes, bombs, etc against an enemy of this sort is pointless :facepalm

13+ years of the greatest military ever accomplishing jack shit in the region... and people think 4,000 Russians are going to do any better?

Let me ask you this- what would a Russian victory in Syria look like? Be as specific as possible.


There's no such thing as rebel group, those are terrorist funded by U.S.' buddies SA, Turkey and Qatar. Assad does not have 200k soldiers, what he has is under-armed tired army, with soviet weaponry.

They got about 4,000 more Russian guns coming to the scene. Should make a world of difference.

[StephHamann]

Let me ask you this- what would a Russian victory in Syria look like? Be as specific as possible.




Kill everyone

[UK2K]

Putin has already called in probably dozens of airstrikes at this point.

ISIS carried out one terrorist attack on one Russian plane.

Which has been more effective for each side's respective position/goals thus far?

You're a military man... do you think 4,000 troops will make even a dent in ISIS' capabilities (and let's be serious here... his original target wasn't even ISIS)?

I think 4,000 SF troops can make a big ****ing difference.

I've held the position that to do real damage in the middle east, 150,000 man armies is not the way to do it. Not anymore, not in the modern age.

Smaller, more mobile, less media-highlighted units are much more effective. Send in a few special forces units, kick the media out,(stop broadcasting every move we make) and let them do their jobs.

[DonDadda59]

Kill everyone

Sounds doable. Putin for World Emperor 2016 :bowdown:

[UK2K]

And the people who they're going to fight don't have actual weapons? :confusedshrug:

How do you think ISIS has gained so much land in so little time? They faced off against highly equipped Iraqi and Syrian soldiers... by asking nicely?



I don't think I presently own a pencil. :lol



And people STILL don't get why sending in planes, bombs, etc against an enemy of this sort is pointless :facepalm

13+ years of the greatest military ever accomplishing jack shit in the region... and people think 4,000 Russians are going to do any better?

Let me ask you this- what would a Russian victory in Syria look like? Be as specific as possible.


They got about 4,000 more Russian guns coming to the scene. Should make a world of difference.

Let's not exaggerate and act like it was a war. It wasn't. It was a police operation where we lost thousands because we wanted to be politically correct.

In real life, in a real war, Afghanistan would have been a wasteland in 24 hours.

We aren't allowed to do that anymore though.

[Draz]

Putin' them terrorist fcks in their place!!!

[DonDadda59]

I think 4,000 SF troops can make a big ****ing difference.

I've held the position that to do real damage in the middle east, 150,000 man armies is not the way to do it. Not anymore, not in the modern age.

Smaller, more mobile, less media-highlighted units are much more effective. Send in a few special forces units, kick the media out,(stop broadcasting every move we make) and let them do their jobs.

OK. Let's say this happens- they 'kick the media out' and the troops 'do their job'... how do they hold on to any territory they've gained? How would it be any different than what we've seen in Afghanistan or Iraq following the U.S.' invasion?

Seems to me that airstrikes and foreigners intervening militarily is a perfect marketing tool for ISIS/Al Qaeda/etc.

They'll never run out of fresh recruits. They can and are willing to fight indefinitely. But how long will a struggling Russian economy support a pointless and costly war in Syria? How many blown up commercial liners or other attacks on Russian soil will the people tolerate before they start openly questioning why the hell they're even fighting so hard to keep Assad in power?

Remember how gung ho everyone in this country was about kicking the Taliban's ass? Remember 'Shock and Awe'?

How'd that go?

[TripleA]

Let's not exaggerate and act like it was a war. It wasn't. It was a police operation where we lost thousands because we wanted to be politically correct.

In real life, in a real war, Afghanistan would have been a wasteland in 24 hourss.

We aren't allowed to do that anymore though.

How about we stop going into places. Violence leads to nothing but more violence.

[DonDadda59]

Let's not exaggerate and act like it was a war. It wasn't. It was a police operation where we lost thousands because we wanted to be politically correct.

In real life, in a real war, Afghanistan would have been a wasteland in 24 hours.

We aren't allowed to do that anymore though.

And what would a 'real war' have looked like? Our goal in Afghanistan was to take out the Taliban and we accomplished that, rather easily... same with taking out Saddam's regime in Iraq.

Turning those victories into something and holding on to the territories is where the problem comes in.

Oh, just looked it up- as of mid October, the Russian have flown 600 air missions in Syria since their campaign began. Can't say I know what they accomplished besides getting one of their own commercial planes blown out of the sky and destroying theirs and Egypt's tourism industry.

But i'm sure recent History and the failures of the greatest military in Human History will have no bearing on Alpha Male Putin's excursion into the region. After all... he rides shirtless on horses.

Bareback. :crazysam:

[Derka]

What's Putin's long-term strategy here though? Its great to go in and kick ass, which Russian troops may very well be able to do against a bunch of untrained whackos with assault rifles. But when the asses are thoroughly kicked, who holds things down when Putin takes his people back home?

You think ISIS is the kind of enemy that just says "Welp, we lost. Let's go home, guys."?

How is this any different than the police actions he so loudly chastises the US for in that region?

[West-Side]

119 elite U.S. soldiers went into Mog and captured FOUR high ranked officers. There were over 10,000 Somalian, if not more.
Rangers and Delta killed over 5,000 of them in a span of 6 weeks.

You think sending Russians elite won't do a difference?

So what exactly is your suggestion?
Stay low and let ISIS get more land by attacking inferior militaries? And killing innocent civilians all over the world?

U.S. didn't stop the civil war in Africa, sure.
But they've weakened their regime significantly.

That's what Putin is attempting to do.

[Patrick Chewing]

Putin' them terrorist fcks in their place!!!


http://i.imgur.com/29XYmgE.gif

[West-Side]

And what would a 'real war' have looked like? Our goal in Afghanistan was to take out the Taliban and we accomplished that, rather easily... same with taking out Saddam's regime in Iraq.

Turning those victories into something and holding on to the territories is where the problem comes in.

Oh, just looked it up- as of mid October, the Russian have flown 600 air missions in Syria since their campaign began. Can't say I know what they accomplished besides getting one of their own commercial planes blown out of the sky and destroying theirs and Egypt's tourism industry.

But i'm sure recent History and the failures of the greatest military in Human History will have no bearing on Alpha Male Putin's excursion into the region. After all... he rides shirtless on horses.

Bareback. :crazysam:

This idiot is spitting his best version of western propaganda.
If you knew more about military strategy and politics, you'd be doing something more significant than posting your opinions on an online message board.

I know a few Russian/Ukranian people and they've given me a completely different perspective on what is actually happening in Russia. I'll trust them over some guy who regurgitates CNN.

By the way, did you steal that "tourism" line from an American newscast?
:cheers:

[KevinNYC]

Anyone read the link? These are not special forces, they don't even appear to be combat troops. This is not in response to the plane bomb.

The single mention of special forces is about US special forces.


The Russian foreign ministry refused to comment on the size of Mr Putin's contingent yesterday.

But there are no Russian troops in combat roles in Syria, according to a spokesman for the Kremlin.

He added that forces are guarding Russia's bases in the west of the country – and working with the Syrian military.

The link is also 5 days old so these troop movements predates the ISIS put a bomb on the plane. We have not seen Russia's response to that yet.

So far the Russian-Iranian-Syrian offensive has been fairly slow going without very many gains and most of the activity has not been against ISIS.

They did just have their biggest victory against ISIS. They have broken an ISIS siege of an airbase outside Aleppo.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34781225

[DonDadda59]

119 elite U.S. soldiers went into Mog and captured FOUR high ranked officers. There were over 10,000 Somalian, if not more.
Rangers and Delta killed over 5,000 of them in a span of 6 weeks.

You think sending Russians elite won't do a difference?

So what exactly is your suggestion?
Stay low and let ISIS get more land by attacking inferior militaries? And killing innocent civilians all over the world?

U.S. didn't stop the civil war in Africa, sure.
But they've weakened their regime significantly.

That's what Putin is attempting to do.

You think Putin cares about ISIS 'killing innocent victims'? :oldlol:

His main focus when he started his campaign wasn't even ISIS, it was the other rebel groups that were smacking Assad's forces around. Putin's only goal is to keep Assad in power so he has a proxy in the region... then he wants to do the same in Iraq.

Good luck to him. I'm sure those 4,000 troops will accomplish all of that in a matter of weeks. 5 years from now when the new Soviet Empire controls the Middle East and terrorism no longer exists, we'll all look back and say 'Thank you, based Putin'. :bowdown:

[DonDadda59]

This idiot is spitting his best version of western propaganda.
If you knew more about military strategy and politics, you'd be doing something more significant than posting your opinions on an online message board.

I know a few Russian/Ukranian people and they've given me a completely different perspective on what is actually happening in Russia. I'll trust them over some guy who regurgitates CNN.

By the way, did you steal that "tourism" line from an American newscast?
:cheers:

Russia, always known for its freedom of speech and free press. :applause:

[KevinNYC]

It's amazing what conclusions folks with jump to.

[KevinNYC]

:facepalm

4,000 highly trained troops, with actual weapons.
You think he's sending in 4,000 privates? He's sending some of his elites.
No evidence for this.

[Dresta]

What exactly is he hoping to accomplish with only 4,000 troops? :confusedshrug:

Assad has about 200,000 troops under his command and they're getting their shit pushed in by ISIS and other rebel groups?



Basically. I assume this is just the first step in a pointless war that will keep escalating. Russia will commit more troops in the coming months/years, accomplish nothing except deplete an already struggling economy. Meanwhile ISIS will amp up its terror campaign and the Russian public will eventually turn against Putin and the war. Rinse and repeat, these nigguhs never learn.
You don't really know what you're talking about, as per usual. The US could have greatly weakened IS by now had they really wanted, they simply made no real effort to do so, because it is Assad that they really have a problem with: he was the basis for their initial crusade, and a too heavy 'degrading' of IS from America would help him out.

Russian efforts thus far have done more to hurt ISIS and instil a semblance of stability (in Damascus at least) than years of the supposed 'degrade and destroy' policy of Obama.

Assad's '200,000' didn't have the same advantage as the rebels, who were constantly plied with outside support, while the Syrian regime was near-universally denigrated in an attempt to impoverish and overthrow it. IS doesn't have a hope against Assad backed by the Russian military unless it gets a load more support from Turkey & co.

I don't know what it is with Americans and their congenital dislike and distrust of the Russians - Russian communism is over, they are still rebuilding from that Utopian catastrophe, stop with the constant denigration and abuse - Russia should be an American ally, and probably would be by now if not for the mad-cap utopian idealists who fill up the US State Department (and their idiotic followers).

Here's an article from someone who knows what they're talking about:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/egypt-plane-crash-this-attack-shows-that-russia-is-hurting-isis-a6725566.html

Go learn something.

[UK2K]

OK. Let's say this happens- they 'kick the media out' and the troops 'do their job'... how do they hold on to any territory they've gained? How would it be any different than what we've seen in Afghanistan or Iraq following the U.S.' invasion?

Seems to me that airstrikes and foreigners intervening militarily is a perfect marketing tool for ISIS/Al Qaeda/etc.

They'll never run out of fresh recruits. They can and are willing to fight indefinitely. But how long will a struggling Russian economy support a pointless and costly war in Syria? How many blown up commercial liners or other attacks on Russian soil will the people tolerate before they start openly questioning why the hell they're even fighting so hard to keep Assad in power?

Remember how gung ho everyone in this country was about kicking the Taliban's ass? Remember 'Shock and Awe'?

How'd that go?

And we had destroyed the Taliban in a few weeks. I mean, there was nothing left. But that was at a time when there were no rules (or they were minimal).

Remember our nightly snatch and grabs by our special forces? Ended, because people thought it was too hostile. Air strikes were abundant in the first few years, but now, you'd have to bend over and spread your cheeks to get air support. I know, we tried numerous times.

You don't understand, because you didn't see the change. When our enemies know our ROE's better than we do, that's a problem for us. Do you think they didn't exploit it? I can't tell you how many people I saw shoot at us, run out of ammo, and then throw down their rifles. As soon as the rifle is on the deck, I can't touch them. End of story. They're not stupid, they know what we can and can't do.

[Patrick Chewing]

It's amazing what conclusions folks with jump to.


Stop trying to play down what Putin's doing just so your boy Barry doesn't look like a fool.

What's it gonna take for Barry to act? One of our planes bombed out of the sky? Even then, I'd think he'd find a reason not to act.

[UK2K]

How about we stop going into places. Violence leads to nothing but more violence.

We could hand out all the hugs we want, I just don't think that method will be any more successful.

[DonDadda59]

You don't really know what you're talking about, as per usual. The US could have greatly weakened IS by now had they really wanted, they simply made no real effort to do so, because it is Assad that they really have a problem with: he was the basis for their initial crusade, and a too heavy 'degrading' of IS from America would help him out.

Russian efforts thus far have done more to hurt ISIS and instil a semblance of stability (in Damascus at least) than years of the supposed 'degrade and destroy' policy of Obama.

Assad's '200,000' didn't have the same advantage as the rebels, who were constantly plied with outside support, while the Syrian regime was near-universally denigrated in an attempt to impoverish and overthrow it. IS doesn't have a hope against Assad backed by the Russian military unless it gets a load more support from Turkey & co.

I don't know what it is with Americans and their congenital dislike and distrust of the Russians - Russian communism is over, they are still rebuilding from that Utopian catastrophe, stop with the constant denigration and abuse - Russia should be an American ally, and probably would be by now if not for the mad-cap utopian idealists who fill up the US State Department (and their idiotic followers).

Here's an article from someone who knows what they're talking about:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/egypt-plane-crash-this-attack-shows-that-russia-is-hurting-isis-a6725566.html


Oh, well... then now that Putin really wants to hurt ISIS then I'm sure he'll do just that. So simple.

If you can conceive it, you can achieve it.

Guess that's where the U.S. and the USSR went wrong in the region since the late 70s-present... They just didn't want it enough.



Go learn something

I was thinking about learning how to make model airplanes.

But then figured someone might try to blow them up.

No one's safe these days.

[UK2K]

And what would a 'real war' have looked like? Our goal in Afghanistan was to take out the Taliban and we accomplished that, rather easily... same with taking out Saddam's regime in Iraq.

Turning those victories into something and holding on to the territories is where the problem comes in.

Oh, just looked it up- as of mid October, the Russian have flown 600 air missions in Syria since their campaign began. Can't say I know what they accomplished besides getting one of their own commercial planes blown out of the sky and destroying theirs and Egypt's tourism industry.

But i'm sure recent History and the failures of the greatest military in Human History will have no bearing on Alpha Male Putin's excursion into the region. After all... he rides shirtless on horses.

Bareback. :crazysam:

One post before, you said the Shock and Awe was a failure.

The country of Afghanistan is a shit hole. It's not our fault, nor our problem. We did everything for them, and handed them a relatively peaceful, democratic country on a silver platter.

They didn't want it apparently. Who knew? What else can you do?

[West-Side]

You don't really know what you're talking about, as per usual. The US could have greatly weakened IS by now had they really wanted, they simply made no real effort to do so, because it is Assad that they really have a problem with: he was the basis for their initial crusade, and a too heavy 'degrading' of IS from America would help him out.

Russian efforts thus far have done more to hurt ISIS and instil a semblance of stability (in Damascus at least) than years of the supposed 'degrade and destroy' policy of Obama.

Assad's '200,000' didn't have the same advantage as the rebels, who were constantly plied with outside support, while the Syrian regime was near-universally denigrated in an attempt to impoverish and overthrow it. IS doesn't have a hope against Assad backed by the Russian military unless it gets a load more support from Turkey & co.

I don't know what it is with Americans and their congenital dislike and distrust of the Russians - Russian communism is over, they are still rebuilding from that Utopian catastrophe, stop with the constant denigration and abuse - Russia should be an American ally, and probably would be by now if not for the mad-cap utopian idealists who fill up the US State Department (and their idiotic followers).

Here's an article from someone who knows what they're talking about:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/egypt-plane-crash-this-attack-shows-that-russia-is-hurting-isis-a6725566.html

Go learn something.


:applause:

[West-Side]

Oh, well... then now that Putin really wants to hurt ISIS then I'm sure he'll do just that. So simple.

If you can conceive it, you can achieve it.

Guess that's where the U.S. and the USSR went wrong in the region since the late 70s-present... They just didn't want it enough.




I was thinking about learning how to make model airplanes.

But then figured someone might try to blow them up.

No one's safe these days.

How much of a scum bag can you be?

[Dresta]

You think Putin cares about ISIS 'killing innocent victims'? :oldlol:

His main focus when he started his campaign wasn't even ISIS, it was the other rebel groups that were smacking Assad's forces around. Putin's only goal is to keep Assad in power so he has a proxy in the region... then he wants to do the same in Iraq.

Good luck to him. I'm sure those 4,000 troops will accomplish all of that in a matter of weeks. 5 years from now when the new Soviet Empire controls the Middle East and terrorism no longer exists, we'll all look back and say 'Thank you, based Putin'. :bowdown:
Sure he wants to keep Assad in power: that much has been obvious. But American & British wavering, and their refusal to make deals with Assad (instead attempting to undermine him), is what's allowed groups like IS to carve themselves such a strong position in the first place. The Americans were warned that the destabilization of Syria would spill over to Iraq, but they ignored such warnings. (and how stupid to destabilize just about the only country in the region that wasn't a tyranny for religious minorities)

This isn't about ending terrorism either, but ending a destructive civil war that has claimed millions of lives, and hopefully to restore Syria to something of a functioning State before the entire country is reduced to waste. The only way this descends into something worse is if other proxies get heavily involved.

[DonDadda59]

One post before, you said the Shock and Awe was a failure.

The country of Afghanistan is a shit hole. It's not our fault, nor our problem. We did everything for them, and handed them a relatively peaceful, democratic country on a silver platter.

They didn't want it apparently. Who knew? What else can you do?

Leave them be and stop meddling in their affairs and focus on domestic issues? :confusedshrug:

Just a thought.

But Putin will do what the U.S. and his former Soviet bosses couldn't in the region.

Ask, Believe, Receive... You just gotta want it more than the other guys. :applause:

[DonDadda59]

Sure he wants to keep Assad in power: that much has been obvious. But American & British wavering, and their refusal to make deals with Assad (instead attempting to undermine him), is what's allowed groups like IS to carve themselves such a strong position in the first place. The Americans were warned that the destabilization of Syria would spill over to Iraq, but they ignored such warnings. (and how stupid to destabilize just about the only country in the region that wasn't a tyranny for religious minorities)

This isn't about ending terrorism either, but ending a destructive civil war that has claimed millions of lives, and hopefully to restore Syria to something of a functioning State before the entire country is reduced to waste. The only way this descends into something worse is if other proxies get heavily involved.

That won't be achieved with Assad in power. The Americans and British wouldn't invite him to have a beer or tea... but his own people wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. :oldlol:

But again... in Putin we trust. He knows what he's doing.


How much of a scum bag can you be?

How much are you willing to spend to find out? :D

[Dresta]

One post before, you said the Shock and Awe was a failure.

The country of Afghanistan is a shit hole. It's not our fault, nor our problem. We did everything for them, and handed them a relatively peaceful, democratic country on a silver platter.

They didn't want it apparently. Who knew? What else can you do?
Yeah, unfortunately you can't 'implant' democracy somewhere and expect it to work when the cultural mores of the place are completely unadapted to such a form of government. That was the initial mistake of the whole Middle-Eastern project, and essentially, a liberal-utopian fantasy.

[KevinNYC]

Stop trying to play down what Putin's doing Just stop. This is moronic even for you.

Type Russia or Syria into Google news. Russia is no sending 4,000 special forces.
Also I just mentioned the biggest victory Russia and ISIS have had.


What's it gonna take for Barry to act? One of our planes bombed out of the sky? Even then, I'd think he'd find a reason not to act.You denied for over a year that we are launching airstrikes against ISIS.

Please describe what acting should look like. Any US politician have a plan similar to yours? Congress won't even vote on authorizing the current action against Iraq. 11 months are no vote. Is there any domestic support for a plan like yours?

[Dresta]

That won't be achieved with Assad in power. The Americans and British wouldn't invite him to have a beer or tea... but his own people wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. :oldlol:

But again... in Putin we trust. He knows what he's doing.
If he didn't have the support of large amounts of his own people his regime would have collapsed long ago. Large portions of the forces fighting against him are foreign mujahideen even - there is no chance he could have survived if he had no support home with as many external enemies as he has. The principal objectors to Assad are the US, UK, Saudi Arabia and Turkey - their insistence on his removal has been one of the largest obstacles to reconciliation.

Ask all the refugees in camps whether they'd rather the war continue, or it be ended and they allowed to go home with Assad still in power. Not to mention the problems the refugee crisis are creating in Europe - ending the war, as quickly as possible, aught to be every sensible man's priority.

[Patrick Chewing]

Please describe what acting should look like.


The moment the first American was killed......boots on the ground. You stomp a mudhole in their asses and plant an American flag.

Oh is that too much for your pacifist eyes to read? Too bad. That's what it takes to defeat the enemy. Not airstrikes over sites where ISIS is not.

[UK2K]

Leave them be and stop meddling in their affairs and focus on domestic issues? :confusedshrug:

Just a thought.

But Putin will do what the U.S. and his former Soviet bosses couldn't in the region.

Ask, Believe, Receive... You just gotta want it more than the other guys. :applause:

Nice jump. That's not even remotely close to what we were talking about.

But ignoring that... Not only had OBL been wanted by Nato since '99 and he happened to be hiding in.. Afghanistan.

But we were invited by the Afghan government (what they called the government). You don't remember them telling the US to stay out, do you? Yeah, me either.

[UK2K]

Yeah, unfortunately you can't 'implant' democracy somewhere and expect it to work when the cultural mores of the place are completely unadapted to such a form of government. That was the initial mistake of the whole Middle-Eastern project, and essentially, a liberal-utopian fantasy.

You can't teach cave people how to behave. It is what it is. Most in the ME are living 1000 years (or more) in the past. Many in Afghanistan had never left their towns. Most couldn't read. They don't know what a democracy is.

Most Afghans just want to continue living without electricity, shitting in their fields for fertilizer, and wiping their asses with their hands.

I felt bad for the Afghans who did work with us, because a few could speak English, and those that could usually knew what the world was like outside Afghanistan. They wanted Afghanistan to be like the US, but they were a minority.

[KevinNYC]

The moment the first American was killed......boots on the ground. You stomp a mudhole in their asses and plant an American flag.

Oh is that too much for your pacifist eyes to read? Too bad. That's what it takes to defeat the enemy. Not airstrikes over sites where ISIS is not.
So I'm a pacifist now? You should half of ISH.

Could you put your plan into something less bumperstickery? Boots on the ground in Iraq and Syria?

How many boots gets the job done? What do we do after the flag gets planted in the mudhole we have made of their asses?


Also how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?

[KevinNYC]

You can't teach cave people how to behave. It is what it is. Most in the ME are living 1000 years (or more) in the past. Many in Afghanistan had never left their towns. Most couldn't read. They don't know what a democracy is.

Most Afghans just want to continue living without electricity, shitting in their fields for fertilizer, and wiping their asses with their hands.

I felt bad for the Afghans who did work with us, because a few could speak English, and those that could usually knew what the world was like outside Afghanistan. They wanted Afghanistan to be like the US, but they were a minority.
Aghanistan is not actually in the Middle East and is a loooooooong way from Damascus or Baghdad.

[rufuspaul]

The moment the first American was killed......boots on the ground. You stomp a mudhole in their asses and plant an American flag.

Oh is that too much for your pacifist eyes to read? Too bad. That's what it takes to defeat the enemy. Not airstrikes over sites where ISIS is not.


Well Obama bombed Doctors Without Borders. Didn't that help?

[Nick Young]

Putin doesn't phuck around. Obama can learn a thing or two from him. This is how shit gets done in the real world.

[zoom17]

The source isn't even credible. Do you guys even open the link?

[Nick Young]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/617112/Vladimir-Putin-Islamic-State-ISIS-Syria-Bashar-Assad-Iraq-Moscow
The next Vietnam/Korea
Syria is nothing like Vietnam or Korea, neither politically, nor geographically.

[UK2K]

Aghanistan is not actually in the Middle East and is a loooooooong way from Damascus or Baghdad.

Iran is the 'Middle East'.

Iran and Afghanistan border each other.

Not sure what your definition of far is when discussing global politics, but I would say that's close enough, no?

[Nick Young]

How do you think ISIS has gained so much land in so little time? They faced off against highly equipped, completely untrained Iraqi and Syrian soldiers with zero discipline or loyalty to their cause... by asking nicely?


FYP, son.

[KevinNYC]

Iran is the 'Middle East'.

Iran and Afghanistan border each other.

Not sure what your definition of far is when discussing global politics, but I would say that's close enough, no? I wasn't saying loooooooong in terms of geography, I meant in terms of culture/learning/importance in the Arab world.

Along with Cairo, Damascus and Baghdad are probably have been the three most important cities in the Islamic world.

Whereas Afghanistan is more of a backwater.

[UK2K]

I wasn't saying loooooooong in terms of geography, I meant in terms of culture/learning/importance in the Arab world.

Along with Cairo, Damascus and Baghdad are probably have been the three most important cities in the Islamic world.

Whereas Afghanistan is more of a backwater.

Oh, well yeah I wasn't comparing the countries at all. But as a method of grouping, I would include Afghans as Middle Easterners just as I would include Italians as Europeans, although there's a lot of diversity in Europe. I don't consider Ukrainians as Europeans, although it is technically in 'Europe'.

Just a personal thing.

[Patrick Chewing]

So I'm a pacifist now? You should half of ISH.

Could you put your plan into something less bumperstickery? Boots on the ground in Iraq and Syria?

How many boots gets the job done? What do we do after the flag gets planted in the mudhole we have made of their asses?


Also how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?


At the time the first American was killed, anywhere between 1000-10000 troops would have sufficed. It would have been game over for these guys. I would have at least a modicum of respect for Obama had he done something like this.

And now he wants to lecture Putin?? Come on, son.

[KevinNYC]

At the time the first American was killed, anywhere between 1000-10000 troops would have sufficed. It would have been game over for these guys.

OK. So you've invaded. Then what? You avoided the harder question.

Also how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?



To your answer. 1,000 troops would have been game over for ISIS? Across two countries? One of which is in a multi-sided civil war?

ISIS moves back and forth between Iraq and Syria. Those two countries are about 200,000 square miles. Let's say ISIS only moves through 1/5th of that. That's still 40,000 square miles. With one trooper for every 40 miles, it becomes a lot of space to hide in. With 10,000 troops. It's still 4 square miles per trooper.

[West-Side]

OK. So you've invaded. Then what? You avoided the harder question.

Also how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?



To your answer. 1,000 troops would have been game over for ISIS? Across two countries? One of which is in a multi-sided civil war?

ISIS moves back and forth between Iraq and Syria. Those two countries are about 200,000 square miles. Let's say ISIS only moves through 1/5th of that. That's still 40,000 square miles. With one trooper for every 40 miles, it becomes a lot of space to hide in. With 10,000 troops. It's still 4 square miles per trooper.

So you think Putin shouldn't send troops in?
Please enlighten us on your suggestive course of action.

I'd like to be entertained.
So get Obama's **** out of your mouth and lecture me on your proposed affirmative action (or lack thereof).

[FKAri]

The US is gonna lose control of the region to Russia if things go well for Putin.

[KevinNYC]

So you think Putin shouldn't send troops in?
Please enlighten us on your suggestive course of action.

I'd like to be entertained.
So get Obama's **** out of your mouth and lecture me on your proposed affirmative action (or lack thereof).

So I'm on Obama for being the one in this thread who actually posts what is really happening?

You were all :applause: on Putin for sending in 4,000 of his elite special forces WHICH HE HASN'T DONE YET. But you decided to praise him anyway. What does that say about you? Who's the one with homerotic fantasies again?

I've said nothing about whether Putin should or shouldn't send troops in. That's up to Putin.

My response to Chewing is due to his simple-minded fantasies that this is an easy problem to solve. You would think that now that we are in the second decade of asymmetric warfare, we would realize it's a difficult thing.

I guess if you just want to nuke the place and not give a **** about the consequences, it's an easy problem to solve.

[ArbitraryWater]

How about we stop going into places. Violence leads to nothing but more violence.

16 year old with smarter senses than that guy :applause:

[KevinNYC]

The US is gonna lose control of the region to Russia if things go well for Putin.
Lose control of Syria?

Syria's been allied with Russia since Nikita Kruschev. Syria and Russia have been closed since the end of WWII.

This is Assad's father with Leonid Brezhnev
http://www.theamericanmag.com/uploaded_images/article_4918_di7BnMSQcl.jpg

Russia's only Mediterranean naval "base" is in Syria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facility_in_Tartus). It's been there since 1971. This is what drew Putin into the war in Syria. The regime had been taking some losses. So Iran and Russia met a few months ago to discuss what they could do to sure up their client.

[Nick Young]

I wasn't saying loooooooong in terms of geography, I meant in terms of culture/learning/importance in the Arab world.

Along with Cairo, Damascus and Baghdad are probably have been the three most important cities in the Islamic world.

Whereas Afghanistan is more of a backwater.
Why are you spewing bullshit out of your asshole? Stop pretending like you know what you're talking about.:facepalm

[Hawker]

Well Obama bombed Doctors Without Borders. Didn't that help?

That shit happened the same day some shooting was. Obama came up and made his holier-than-thou speech like always while the military was bombing some hospital for an hour after being repeatedly told to stop. Not only that, the coordinates of the hospital had been given prior but they bombed it anyway.