Best player ever according NBA legends

[lakers_forever]

A Brazilian blog I follow posted an article with a list of 21 legends (only retired players still alive) picking who they think is the all time greatest basketball player:

There is video and article evidence in the article for every statement. The quotes are also there:

http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2015/11/11/the-best-basketball-player-of-all-time-according-to-nba-legends/

List:

Jordan - Jordan
Bird - Probably Jordan.
Magic - Jordan
Bill Russell - Jordan
Oscar Robertson - Can't pick just one. Doesn't think Jordan is the greatest.
Kareem - can't pick one. Thinks Oscar was better than Jordan and Lebron. Also thinks Wilt is the all time greatest scorer.
Karl Malone - Wilt Chamberlain
John Stockton - Can't pick one.
Barkley - Jordan
Elgin Baylor - Jordan
Bob Cousy - Jordan
Shaq - Jordan
Dr. J - Kareem
Jerry West - Jordan
Scottie Pippen - Jordan
Bill Walton - Kareem
Olajuwon - Probably Jordan
Bob Pettit - Russell
George Gervin - Kareem
Rick Barry - Probably Wilt Chamberlain.


Out of the 21 legends, 11 (if you count Bird and Olajuwon) have Jordan as the greatest. Kareem ends up in second place with 4 votes. Third is Wilt Chamberlain with 2 (if you count Rick Barry) and Bill Russel fourth with 1. Other players were mentioned (like Lebron, Oscar, Magic, Kobe, Bird, West and Baylor), but not really voted as best ever.
Therefore, most legends seem to agree with fans that Jordan was the greatest ever.

If you find a legend’s opinion that is not here (specially top 20 and 30 all time greats), please leave a comment and the link to the statement.

Can you guys find any legends's opinion that is missing there?

[lakers_forever]

Only Jordan and the 3 greatest big men mentioned (Kareem, Wilt and Russell). Top 4 GOAT's?

[JtotheIzzo]

Only Jordan and the 3 greatest big men mentioned (Kareem, Wilt and Russell). Top 4 GOAT's?

yes, with Magic at 5 and Bird at 6.

I think the top six is generally locked down in most observers opinion. Arguments can be made for Shaq, Kobe or even Bran but they are not held by the majority

[lakers_forever]

yes, with Magic at 5 and Bird at 6.

I think the top six is generally locked down in most observers opinion. Arguments can be made for Shaq, Kobe or even Bran but they are not held by the majority

I agree. :cheers:

[lakers_forever]

Funny that Isiah Thomas changed his mind. When MJ retired in 1998, he said:

"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he's also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time."

Now he says:

“If they say the numbers don’t lie, then Kareem is the greatest ever to play the game,” Thomas said. “And I’m a big proponent of that. … No disrespect to Jordan, but he won in the ’90s. And if the ’80s are the golden era, then the person who dominated the NBA in the ’80s and the ’70s was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.”

[feyki]

Only Jordan and the 3 greatest big men mentioned (Kareem, Wilt and Russell). Top 4 GOAT's?

Elgin has a vote from Oscar .

[lakers_forever]

Elgin has a vote from Oscar .

He thinks Elgin is in the conversation, but did not vote for an specific player as the greatest.

I got a question for Lazeruss and other Wilt fans (I'm also a fan BTW, he is definetly top 4 for me): Why old guys did not vote for Wilt?

Out of his contemporaries, only Rick Barry voted for him and Kareem thinks he is the greatest scorer ever. Bill Russell, Oscar, Jerry West, Cousy, Elgin Baylor and Pettit, no one voted for him. Dr. J who has Wilt in his top 5 and as one of his idols chooses Kareem... Why? Is is that thing of not rooting for Goliath?

[feyki]

He thinks Elgin is in the conversation, but did not vote for an specific player as the greatest.

I got a question for Lazeruss and other Wilt fans (I'm also a fan BTW, he is definetly top 4 for me): Why old guys did not vote for Wilt?

Out of his contemporaries, only Rick Barry voted for him and Kareem thinks he is the greatest scorer ever. Bill Russell, Oscar, Jerry West, Cousy, Elgin Baylor and Pettit, no one voted for him. Dr. J who has Wilt in his top 5 and as one of his idols chooses Kareem... Why? Is is that thing of not rooting for Goliath?

www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312542

and Pippen said Lebron better than Jordan .

[k0kakw0rld]

A Brazilian blog I follow posted an article with a list of 21 legends (only retired players still alive) picking who they think is the all time greatest basketball player:

There is video and article evidence in the article for every statement. The quotes are also there:

http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2015/11/11/the-best-basketball-player-of-all-time-according-to-nba-legends/

List:

Jordan - Jordan
Bird - Probably Jordan.
Magic - Jordan
Bill Russell - Jordan
Oscar Robertson - Can't pick just one. Doesn't think Jordan is the greatest.
Kareem - can't pick one. Thinks Oscar was better than Jordan and Lebron. Also thinks Wilt is the all time greatest scorer.
Karl Malone - Wilt Chamberlain
John Stockton - Can't pick one.
Barkley - Jordan
Elgin Baylor - Jordan
Bob Cousy - Jordan
Shaq - Jordan
Dr. J - Kareem
Jerry West - Jordan
Scottie Pippen - Jordan
Bill Walton - Kareem
Olajuwon - Probably Jordan
Bob Pettit - Russell
George Gervin - Kareem
Rick Barry - Probably Wilt Chamberlain.



Can you guys find any legends's opinion that is missing there?
No trace of Duncan, Kobe, Magic but at least LeBron was mentioned by the GOAT Kareem :bowdown:

[lakers_forever]

No trace of Duncan, Kobe, Magic but at least LeBron was mentioned by the GOAT Kareem :bowdown:

Magic was mentioned by Stockton as being in the conversation. Kobe was mentioned by Oscar. Duncan was not mentioned by anyone indeed.

[LAZERUSS]

I don't have time to look up the quotes, but,

West, Oscar, KAJ, Barry, Russell, and even Bird have claimed Wilt as the GOAT at some time, or another.

[jlip]

I don't have time to look up the quotes, but,

West, Oscar, KAJ, Barry, Russell, and even Bird have claimed Wilt as the GOAT at some time, or another.

A lot of these players have mentioned various players as GOAT at different points. For instance I've seen Bird call Magic, MJ, and Wilt GOAT in different quotes. Russell has implied that Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, or even himself were the best at various times only to say in other interviews that he can't officially rank players.

[ArbitraryWater]

completely useless.. all have contradicted each other, also the idea of Russell as top 3, or Magic/Bird above Shaq/Bron is hilarious and makes no sense to me.

[LAZERUSS]

A lot of these players have mentioned various players as GOAT at different points. For instance I've seen Bird call Magic, MJ, and Wilt GOAT in different quotes. Russell has implied that Wilt, Oscar, Kareem, or even himself were the best at various times only to say in other interviews that he can't officially rank players.

Oh, of course.

West and Magic must have 5+ GOATS each.

[lakers_forever]

Oh, of course.

West and Magic must have 5+ GOATS each.

West and Magic seemed pretty straightforward about Jordan being the greatest.

West:

“I have to think he’s the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game. To me he’s the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league for a number of years. To be the defensive player of the year with all the other things he had to do, to me, he’s a marvel. He has separated himself from the rest of the good players as far as I’m concerned. He’s the modern day Babe Ruth.”

Magic said Jordan is head and shoulders above everyone else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0

[HenryGarfunkle]

Lebron is clearly the best individual player ever

not counting team championships his individual resume measures up with anyone

he does literally everything at an elite level. that can't be said for anyone else in history, only him.

[ZMonkey11]

Funny that Isiah Thomas changed his mind. When MJ retired in 1998, he said:

"From all the players I have seen and played against, he's definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he's also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time."

Now he says:

“If they say the numbers don’t lie, then Kareem is the greatest ever to play the game,” Thomas said. “And I’m a big proponent of that. … No disrespect to Jordan, but he won in the ’90s. And if the ’80s are the golden era, then the person who dominated the NBA in the ’80s and the ’70s was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.”

Go to 6:23. His whole commentary on being left off the Dream Team. He mentions Jordan as the greatest player ever to play the game.

Edit: This is from last month.

Edit 2: Here is the link. I'm the worst. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KqbSjJBlL0

[lakers_forever]

Go to 6:27. His whole commentary on being left off the Dream Team. He mentions Jordan as the greatest player ever to play the game.

This is from late last year.

Link?

[ZMonkey11]

Link?

Wow, I'm horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KqbSjJBlL0

[lakers_forever]

Wow, I'm horrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KqbSjJBlL0

Thanks. :cheers:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

completely useless.. all have contradicted each other, also the idea of Russell as top 3, or Magic/Bird above Shaq/Bron is hilarious and makes no sense to me.

Russell has an easy top-3 case, greatest winner the league has ever seen, arguably the greatest defender ever. He's #3 for me.

Just about everyone has Magic/Bird over Bron, don't lump him together with Shaq. Shaq >>> Bron.

[the mesiah]

Why old guys did not vote for Wilt?

Why? Is is that thing of not rooting for Goliath?
I think it has to do with his personality in general, he was a very surly guy and just down out nasty at times ,. Plus him being the biggest,baddest guy on the block didn't help.

[LAZERUSS]

I think it has to do with his personality in general, he was a very surly guy and just down out nasty at times ,. Plus him being the biggest,baddest guy on the block didn't help.


The thing is...the "old guys" DID vote for Wilt.

Again...at various times...

West, Oscar, Barry, Kareem, and Russell have all listed Wilt as the GOAT.

As for Russell...

Jlip could provide better info, but there were a ton of articles from the 50's and into the 80's (and probably beyond), in which he was listed as the GOAT.


The problem with this "survey" is that some of the players listed probably never saw Wilt or Russell play.

[aj1987]

West and Magic seemed pretty straightforward about Jordan being the greatest.

West:

“I have to think he’s the greatest player ever. Not because of his ability to score, but because of his total game. To me he’s the best offensive player and the best defensive player in the league for a number of years. To be the defensive player of the year with all the other things he had to do, to me, he’s a marvel. He has separated himself from the rest of the good players as far as I’m concerned. He’s the modern day Babe Ruth.”

Magic said Jordan is head and shoulders above everyone else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0
That's tremendous praise coming from West. Dude arguably has the GOAT basketball IQ.


Laz melting down as usual. Deal with it, boy. MJ is the undisputed GOAT and Chokerlain is borderline top 10.

[West-Side]

They all subconsciously meant Kobe Bryant, it's obvious.

[Psileas]

A Brazilian blog I follow posted an article with a list of 21 legends (only retired players still alive) picking who they think is the all time greatest basketball player:

There is video and article evidence in the article for every statement. The quotes are also there:

http://otaviopinto.com/index.php/2015/11/11/the-best-basketball-player-of-all-time-according-to-nba-legends/

List:

Jordan - Jordan
Bird - Probably Jordan.
Magic - Jordan
Bill Russell - Jordan
Oscar Robertson - Can't pick just one. Doesn't think Jordan is the greatest.
Kareem - can't pick one. Thinks Oscar was better than Jordan and Lebron. Also thinks Wilt is the all time greatest scorer.
Karl Malone - Wilt Chamberlain
John Stockton - Can't pick one.
Barkley - Jordan
Elgin Baylor - Jordan
Bob Cousy - Jordan
Shaq - Jordan
Dr. J - Kareem
Jerry West - Jordan
Scottie Pippen - Jordan
Bill Walton - Kareem
Olajuwon - Probably Jordan
Bob Pettit - Russell
George Gervin - Kareem
Rick Barry - Probably Wilt Chamberlain.



Can you guys find any legends's opinion that is missing there?

Bird has picked Wilt, not Jordan. Russell ranks in tiers, so, although he's claimed he hasn't seen anyone better than Jordan, he hasn't confirmed that Jordan is alone at the top. Also, Jordan has called Bill Russell the game's greatest living legend.

[Psileas]

Also, take a look at these:

[the mesiah]

The thing is...the "old guys" DID vote for Wilt.

Again...at various times...

West, Oscar, Barry, Kareem, and Russell have all listed Wilt as the GOAT.

As for Russell...

Jlip could provide better info, but there were a ton of articles from the 50's and into the 80's (and probably beyond), in which he was listed as the GOAT.


The problem with this "survey" is that some of the players listed probably never saw Wilt or Russell play.
I can see that, I didn't look at all OP's post or link he posted .i can see though where at one time they felt he was the GOAT.

[Kblaze8855]

The problem with this is how many people individual players will mention. You can pick different quotes from the same people and make any point you wish. Bird off the top of my head called Kareem the GOAT, Jordan god, said Magic was the best he ever saw, said Wilt was the GOAT in the 90s, and said this of Lebron in 2011 after they lost in the finals:


“He brought a lot of it on himself, but here’s what I feel about LeBron: he’s as good as anyone that’s ever played this game. I think he’s going to win a lot of titles; I think he’s going to continue to get better. To me, he’s an amazing athlete, he’s never been hurt, he’s got the body of a football player and he’s got skill. I just think he’s off the charts good.

And I think his time is going to come. I think they did a remarkable job in Miami this year bringing that team together and getting where they got. They’ll get better next year. Their time is going to come if he stays healthy, and he’s going to have a lot of success in this league and win championships.”

So what do you do then? You pick what suits the argument you want to make. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Bird, Oscar, and Magic in something close to that order get mentioned as the GOAT or something like it on a pretty regular basis by everyone who played with or against them.

If you put the entire HOF into a room and made them has it out and vote I suspect Jordan comes in #1 with Russell second, Wilt third, Kareem 4th...and the rest is just chaos.

But just go look for quotes you might find the same guy mention any of them as the best depending on the situation and exactly what he was asked.

[lakers_forever]

The problem with this is how many people individual players will mention. You can pick different quotes from the same people and make any point you wish. Bird off the top of my head called Kareem the GOAT, Jordan god, said Magic was the best he ever saw, said Wilt was the GOAT in the 90s, and said this of Lebron in 2011 after they lost in the finals:



So what do you do then? You pick what suits the argument you want to make. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Bird, Oscar, and Magic in something close to that order get mentioned as the GOAT or something like it on a pretty regular basis by everyone who played with or against them.

If you put the entire HOF into a room and made them has it out and vote I suspect Jordan comes in #1 with Russell second, Wilt third, Kareem 4th...and the rest is just chaos.

But just go look for quotes you might find the same guy mention any of them as the best depending on the situation and exactly what he was asked.

That's true. But saying someone is just as good as anyone that has played is different than saying (like some did if you check the article) that some player is the greatest of all time. Bird is listed as "probably jordan", so the author did not think it is clear. But Some of those guys like Jerry West, Barkley, Jordan, Cousy, they explained and flat out said Jordan is the best ever. I don't see how West would claim some other guy was the GOAT.



"So what do you do then? You pick what suits the argument you want to make. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Bird, Oscar, and Magic in something close to that order get mentioned as the GOAT or something like it on a pretty regular basis by everyone who played with or against them."

I agree.

"If you put the entire HOF into a room and made them has it out and vote I suspect Jordan comes in #1 with Russell second, Wilt third, Kareem 4th...and the rest is just chaos."

That's fair. But I think Kareem would come in second place with Wilt and Russell next. Just guessing though.

[lakers_forever]

[QUOTE=Psileas]Also, take a look at these:

[Knoe Itawl]

No way to prove it for sure, but I'll bet a number of these players don't pick Jordan because of personal issues they have with him, and/or the level of fame he reached. I'd love to be able to look into their heads and get a true, unbiased answer. I'd bet there would be even more Jordan picks.

[Asukal]

Hahaha bunch of choker god stans getting all butthurt. So funny! :oldlol: :roll:

[SexSymbol]

It's a travesty for bill russel to have only one vote.
Man should be known as the undisputed best player ever, 11 rings will probably never be reached. He's the greatest winner of all time, and considering you play the game to win, and nothing else matters, you have your best player ever.

[Dresta]

I think this thread illustrates at least one thing clearly: that former NBA stars chat a lot of shit in their dotage.

[dhsilv]

How many of these guys actually follow the game close enough to even comment on this subjective more objectively than Joe Six pack?

Jerry West, no question about it, he's an expert. Shaq? Not buying it. So many of the older players almost ignore the fact that there was basketball played after the 70's. Younger guys just know of the older players through stories, but few are students of the game if you will. I'd take their word on who was the best when they played but even then you see huge bias for similar positions to themselves.

[ShawkFactory]

It's a travesty for bill russel to have only one vote.
Man should be known as the undisputed best player ever, 11 rings will probably never be reached. He's the greatest winner of all time, and considering you play the game to win, and nothing else matters, you have your best player ever.
I'm never one to diminish Russell, and I have him #4 all time. 11 rings and the championships in college are no coincidence, and aren't entirely attributed to having stacked teams.

But he by far the greatest cast of any star in the 60s, particularly early on.

That plus you only had to win 8 games instead of 16.

He certainly has an argument but its not a travesty that he isn't widely considered to be the GOAT.

[90sgoat]

How many of these guys actually follow the game close enough to even comment on this subjective more objectively than Joe Six pack?

Jerry West, no question about it, he's an expert. Shaq? Not buying it. So many of the older players almost ignore the fact that there was basketball played after the 70's. Younger guys just know of the older players through stories, but few are students of the game if you will. I'd take their word on who was the best when they played but even then you see huge bias for similar positions to themselves.

Shaq is pretty knowledgeable and has studied at least all the centers. Jerry West is probably the best basketball mind currently along with Larry Bird.

I don't put much stock in someone like Drexler picking Wilt, did he even ever see him play?

I've watched Oscar play on Youtube. There is no way he would average a triple double today. He seemed more like a shooting guard, a less athletic Dwyane Wade but with a better jump shot. Great sure, but not as good as MJ.

[Orlando Magic]

https://youtu.be/q4Epu-7ITO4

2 minutes into the video Kobe says that Jordan is the greatest player to evert play the game

[lakers_forever]

So many of the older players almost ignore the fact that there was basketball played after the 70's. Younger guys just know of the older players through stories, but few are students of the game if you will. I'd take their word on who was the best when they played but even then you see huge bias for similar positions to themselves.


Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy and Jerry West all voted for Jordan.

Does anyone know who Wilt though was the greatest? Was it himself? What about Duncan, Dirk and Lebron? Is there video of Lebron saying Jordan is the best ever?

[La Frescobaldi]

Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy and Jerry West all voted for Jordan.

Does anyone know who Wilt though was the greatest? Was it himself? What about Duncan, Dirk and Lebron? Is there video of Lebron saying Jordan is the best ever?
Chamberlain had it as Larry Bird, Magic, Jerry West, Oscar, Baylor, and Jordan or Magic.
Russell chose Magic, Jordan, Bird, Baylor, Oscar, and Olajuwon or Pettit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdd2biHVlyA

House rules said they couldn't choose each other though. But that was right there on the spot don't know if that is what they would say after time thinking about it.

[Psileas]

Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy and Jerry West all voted for Jordan.

Does anyone know who Wilt though was the greatest? Was it himself? What about Duncan, Dirk and Lebron? Is there video of Lebron saying Jordan is the best ever?

If we don't exclude cases of players voting themselves, then pretty much yes. Apart from himself, I've heard the best words about Russell (although he didn't think Russell was individually better, he basically implied that he'd be more valuable for a team like the Celtics) and Bird.

[GrapeApe]

Lebron is clearly the best individual player ever

not counting team championships his individual resume measures up with anyone

he does literally everything at an elite level. that can't be said for anyone else in history, only him.

6.9 apg is not elite
7.1 rpg is not elite
1.7 spg is not elite
0.8 bpg is not elite
3.4 TO's is not elite
34% from 3 is not elite
74% fts is not elite

He does most things well and has one of the best overall combination of skills, but he is by no means "elite" at everything. Even if you want to qualify it by position, he still isn't elite at everything.

[lakers_forever]

Chamberlain had it as Larry Bird, Magic, Jerry West, Oscar, Baylor, and Jordan or Magic.
Russell chose Magic, Jordan, Bird, Baylor, Oscar, and Olajuwon or Pettit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdd2biHVlyA

House rules said they couldn't choose each other though. But that was right there on the spot don't know if that is what they would say after time thinking about it.



If we don't exclude cases of players voting themselves, then pretty much yes. Apart from himself, I've heard the best words about Russell (although he didn't think Russell was individually better, he basically implied that he'd be more valuable for a team like the Celtics) and Bird.

Thanks.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Russell has an easy top-3 case, greatest winner the league has ever seen, arguably the greatest defender ever. He's #3 for me.

Just about everyone has Magic/Bird over Bron, don't lump him together with Shaq. Shaq >>> Bron.

Shaq and Magic are above Bron, but hardly anyone considers Bird over Bron nowadays

[Pointguard]

No way to prove it for sure, but I'll bet a number of these players don't pick Jordan because of personal issues they have with him, and/or the level of fame he reached. I'd love to be able to look into their heads and get a true, unbiased answer. I'd bet there would be even more Jordan picks.
Wilt had the most hate. He was Goliath, womanizer and didn't temper his superior scoring and rebounding. Guy wasn't voted MVP by players when he was scoring 20 more ppg than the next guy and leading the league in rebounding. He was coming into town to get the finest woman, score 50 on you and get about 25 boards on the house.