If Kobe has GOAT level skill and footwork..... [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

ShaqTwizzle

11-12-2015, 08:02 AM

Kobe has always relied on his amazing physical gifts much more then many people realize or accept.

Look how good he looked in 2013.
That year he was healthy physically and looked his best physically since 2010.

He has always been a great athlete blessed with top notch size and length for his position.
He also aged very well an athlete (up until his achilles injury) which is one part of athleticism many people don't always factor in.

Yes he is very, very skilled but he has always relied on his physical gifts a good deal especially on the defensive end.

Hell even Jordan was pretty ineffective in his old age though not this bad.

SexSymbol

11-12-2015, 08:03 AM

Dirk is 7 foot tall, and hasn't had major injuries in the last few years.
People don't understand that full achilles tear is the worst injury in sports

pauk

11-12-2015, 08:07 AM

its a pure shooter thing...

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 08:09 AM

Dirk is 6-11/7'

So are the guys guarding him

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 08:10 AM

Dirk is 7 foot tall, and hasn't had major injuries in the last few years.
People don't understand that full achilles tear is the worst injury in sports

Like one of those injuries you should retire after?:rolleyes:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 08:23 AM

Because he's the better shooter and he can raise up over his defender without much effort aside from his trademark step back. Dirk is 7ft tall.

But it's funny how you're pretending Dirk isn't chucking too, it's just that his chucking is not created equal with Kobe's as it's fuccing Dirk, one of the greatest Stretch 4's of all time. Besides, Dirk is 7ft, he's not doing anything different than what most big men do as they age aside from his shooting, they stick around for way longer because they don't have as much wear and tear compared to guards.

Kobe's game has always been a combination of skill, grit and athleticism. Considering all of his injuries, all he has left of the combination is grit right now.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 08:25 AM

Like one of those injuries you should retire after?:rolleyes:

So you're mad Kobe didn't retire after ripping his Achilles? :lol

Wtf was your point in making this thread aside from another shit on Kobe thread?

DonDadda59

11-12-2015, 08:52 AM

Bean's basketball IQ wasn't always elite level even though his skills are. He's too stubborn to realize he can't efficiently lead the team in scoring any more so he'll keep chucking away even though he's shooting in the 30s. He won't change his approach.

Guys like Dirk and Timmy have high enough basketball IQs to know that their bodies aren't capable of doing the things they did when they were in their physical primes, so they adjust.

The only time in the past few seasons where the Lakers had any semblance of success is when Bean acted more as a facilitator and decoy than gunner. But he obviously hasn't learned anything. The team has enough talent to at least be a .500 team, but old man Beans isn't doing them any favors. Old dog, no new tricks.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 08:58 AM

So you're mad Kobe didn't retire after ripping his Achilles? :lol

Wtf was your point in making this thread aside from another shit on Kobe thread?

naw man, I was just watching the mavs game last night and I was thinking about how both these guys are old, but Dirk has been taking good shots, and Kobe has been taking ugly shots.

Kobe's taking ~33% more shots per game than Dirk right now.

Dirk has been using his threat as a scorer to get his teammates open. Kobe has been freezing everyone out.

If Kobe is as skilled as these guys on ISH want me to believe, then it shouldn't matter if he lost his athleticism. He should be able to break down teams because he's just that good......but he's not and I don't think he ever was.

So yeah, I guess this is another "shit on Kobe thread". That's what happens when his stans make so many "suck on Kobe threads"

Mike Armstrong

11-12-2015, 09:00 AM

Kobe is simply the most over confident chucker of all time, which tricks dumb fans into thinking he is great.

Jameerthefear

11-12-2015, 09:09 AM

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 09:18 AM

What kind of weed are you smoking?
seriously:lol

Dirk USG% = 24.2% (right about in line with his past 4 seasons)

Kobe USG% = 29.6% (top-15 in the league)

keep in mind, the average USG% is 20% (100% of shots/ 5 players on the floor)

Nobody this bad has taken this many shots per minute. It's insane.

Dragonyeuw

11-12-2015, 09:18 AM

But it's funny how you're pretending Dirk isn't chucking too,.

How is shooting 55% on 13 shots a game chucking?

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 09:21 AM

How is shooting 55% on 13 shots a game chucking?

no use talking sense to these people dude, don't bother :facepalm

Magic 32

11-12-2015, 09:23 AM

Because Dirk has not suffered 3 crippling injuries in a row and is not playing for a sputtering franchise who hires coaches who can’t run modern basketball offense.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 01:48 PM

How is shooting 55% on 13 shots a game chucking?

What kind of weed are you smoking?

seriously:lol

Dirk USG% = 24.2% (right about in line with his past 4 seasons)

Kobe USG% = 29.6% (top-15 in the league)

keep in mind, the average USG% is 20% (100% of shots/ 5 players on the floor)

Nobody this bad has taken this many shots per minute. It's insane.

The point is all Dirk does is shoot too. Ni99a barley plays defense, barley gets to the cup and is a mediocre rebounder for a guy his size.

Julius Randle had his best game of the season against Dirk. Dropped 22 and 15 boards as a damn near honorary Rookie.

Stop trying to act like he's shitting on Kobe in all facets of the game when we all know if his shot wasn't falling he'd be just as average looking as Kobe does right now. Because that's all he can do on the court these days is shoot, particularly right now.

To pretend he's somehow more skilled than Kobe at these elder ages isn't genuine . Especially when you consider Dirk has always been a significantly better shooter than Kobe. But that's not all there is to the game.

Is he playing better? Sure His shot hasn't failed him throughout his entire career, he doesn't need to exert as much energy to get a shot off as Kobe.

West-Side

11-12-2015, 01:52 PM

You guys truly are morons.
Kobe torn his achilles.

Period, end of discussion.

2013 Kobe was a top THREE player in the league before his injury.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 01:53 PM

The point is all Dirk does is shoot too. Ni99a barley plays deense, barley gets to the cup and is a mediocre rebounder for a guy his size.

Julius Randle had his best game of the season against Dirk. Dropped 22 and 15 boards as a damn near honorary Rookie.

Stop trying to act like he's shitting on Kobe in all facets of the game when we all know if his shot wasn't falling he'd be just as average looking as Kobe does right now. Because that's all he can do, particularly right now.

To pretend he's somehow more skilled than Kobe at these elder ages isn't genuine . Especially when you consider Dirk has always been a significantly better shooter than Kobe. But that's not all there is to the game.

Is he plying better? Sure His shot hasn't failed him throughout his entire career, he doesn't need to exert as much energy to get a shot off as Kobe.

yes, if his shots weren't going in the hoop, he'd look bad.......like every single scorer

You're really telling me that Kobe is playing good, team basketball and making good decisions on the court? Because Dirk is.

Dirk is pulling down 9.8 Rebounds per-36. He's also hustling back on defense. How many times this season (and the last couple seasons) has Kobe Iso-ed, missed, and then jogged back on D while the other team runs? HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

Don't act like Dirk's shots are going in by luck and Kobe's aren't going in by luck. Kobe has been taking shitty shots playing one on one basketball, and not getting himself any easy shots off movement and shooting.

Now, as always, Dirk is more skilled (relative to forwards) than Kobe is (relative to guards/swingmen).

kshutts1

11-12-2015, 01:54 PM

I do wish Kobe could realize that he needs to play off the ball more, and let others create the offense.

But at the same time... not sure anyone on that team can. But I'd like to see Kobe slide to the 3spot and play Paul Pierce type role right now, albeit with more minutes.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 01:58 PM

You guys truly are morons.
Kobe torn his achilles.

Period, end of discussion.

2013 Kobe was a top THREE player in the league before his injury.

Top 3 player? He was 3rd in points per game, and scoring was the only thing he was doing :facepalm

8th in win shares, 10th in PER, 21st in WS/48

His superteam won 45 games that season and got swept in the 1st round

3rd best player in the league :facepalm

Chokefree

11-12-2015, 02:02 PM

What kind of weed are you smoking?
what kind of c0ck you smokin ?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:08 PM

yes, if his shots weren't going in the hoop, he'd look bad.......like every single scorer

You're really telling me that Kobe is playing good, team basketball and making good decisions on the court? Because Dirk is.

Dirk is pulling down 9.8 Rebounds per-36. He's also hustling back on defense. How many times this season (and the last couple seasons) has Kobe Iso-ed, missed, and then jogged back on D while the other team runs? HUNDREDS OF TIMES.

Don't act like Dirk's shots are going in by luck and Kobe's aren't going in by luck. Kobe has been taking shitty shots playing one on one basketball, and not getting himself any easy shots off movement and shooting.

Now, as always, Dirk is more skilled (relative to forwards) than Kobe is (relative to guards/swingmen).

Bruh, I don't know if you've noticed but The Lakers are having the same exact problems with Kobe on and off the court, he's been out for two games and these cats are still making the same mistakes, how you can so casually put it all on Kobe is beyond me. I'm not even staning here, already said Dirk was playing better and has ALWAYS been the better shooter.

You Kobe haters suffer from some sort of deficiency where you'll put it all on Kobe when The Lakers are losing and when they're winning he's only apart of the equation. Now that he's over the hill and basically a corpse at this point, it's easy to pick at his game and pretend he's always been unskilled , low Bball IQ etc.

I get it , he's ass fucced every Team you've ever rooted for and now its easy to just sit back and pick at his game in his twilight and call him awful. Have fun bro:cheers:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:11 PM

Also if your boy was supposedly hustling back on D as much as you say how did a Rookie Randle drop 22pts and 15 reb on him? Best he's looked all year was against Dirk.

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:14 PM

HoopCityJones embarrassing himself once again. Nothing new to see here folks.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:17 PM

HoopCityJones embarrassing himself once again. Nothing new to see here folks.

Uncle Drew being a fa9 and playing captain save a ho once again, a lot to see here folks. Ni99as being bitches in their natural habitat.

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 02:17 PM

HoopCityJones embarrassing himself once again. Nothing new to see here folks.
Co-sign :lol :lol :lol

Dragonyeuw

11-12-2015, 02:17 PM

Stop trying to act like he's shitting on Kobe in all facets of the game when we all know if his shot wasn't falling he'd be just as average looking as Kobe does right now. Because that's all he can do on the court these days is shoot, particularly right now.

Considering that shooting/scoring is probably the number one skill/ability in basketball, the fact that one current can and the other currently can't is a big deal, especially when the one that can't is taking more shots. It's not that difficult in that context to understand that one player is chucking, and one isn't.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:18 PM

Co-sign :lol :lol :lol

More like alt sign.

Now sign back into Uncle Drew bitch.

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:18 PM

Uncle Drew being a fa9 and playing captain save a ho once again, a lot to see here folks. Ni99as being bitches in their natural habitat.
Just log off, this is getting painful.

JT123

11-12-2015, 02:18 PM

Top 3 player? He was 3rd in points per game, and scoring was the only thing he was doing :facepalm

8th in win shares, 10th in PER, 21st in WS/48

His superteam won 45 games that season and got swept in the 1st round

3rd best player in the league :facepalm
:applause: Kobe fan boys have no idea how to analyze the game beyond ppg. That 2013 season has become so fcking overrated it's not even funny. Since when did barely making the playoffs with a superteam become something worth bragging about? :facepalm

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:20 PM

Also if your boy was supposedly hustling back on D as much as you say how did a Rookie Randle drop 22pts and 15 reb on him? Best he's looked all year was against Dirk.

Didnt say Dirk was playing good D (he was last night tho). He's just actually attempting D as opposed to Kobe (the player I'm comparing him to).

Also, Randle can play.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:21 PM

Considering that shooting/scoring is probably the number one skill/ability in basketball, the fact that one current can and the other currently can't is a big deal, which when the one that can't is taking more shots. That's not hate, it simple logic.

Kobe is playing bad.

Everyone knows this, but OP's implication was to question if he's ever had GOAT level skill and footwork.

Couldn't possibly be talking about today as Kobe is a shell of his former self.

Either way, you guys knock yourselves out. :applause:

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 02:22 PM

:applause: Kobe fan boys have no idea how to analyze the game beyond ppg. That 2013 season has become so fcking overrated it's not even funny. Since when did barely making the playoffs with a superteam become something worth bragging about? :facepalm
:applause: :applause: :applause:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:22 PM

Just log off, this is getting painful.

I'll only log off once your Mother stops throating these nuts.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:22 PM

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 02:23 PM

I'll only log off once your Mother stops throating these nuts.

Y
A
W
N

:sleeping

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:24 PM

Kobe is playing bad.

Everyone knows this, but OP's implication was to question if he's ever had GOAT level skill and footwork.

Couldn't possibly be talking about today as Kobe is a shell of his former self.

Either way, you guys knock yourselves out. :applause:

Do skills and footwork go away as you get older? I was always under the impression that they got better, but athleticism got worse.

Kobe is a top-20 player all time, and not a top-10 most skilled player either.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:24 PM

Y
A
W
N

:sleeping

You're making it obvious now this is your alt Drew why would some Gus dude Ive never even talked to have such interest in what I'm posting?:roll:

You fuccing lame.

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:25 PM

More like alt sign.

Now sign back into Uncle Drew bitch.
So this is what it's come down to, just blindly accusing of alts? That's pathetic. How's Russell's PER btw?

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:25 PM

I'll only log off once your Mother stops throating these nuts.
You can do better man, come on. I believe in you.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:25 PM

Do skills and footwork go away as you get older? I was always under the impression that they got better, but athleticism got worse.

Go tear your Achilles , and fracture a Knee post 34 yrs old and see if you can move the same ever again.

Are you serious? You serious? :oldlol:

This guy can't even get to the painted area like he used to anymore.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:29 PM

So this is what it's come down to, just blindly accusing of alts? That's pathetic. How's Russell's PER btw?

You can do better man, come on. I believe in you.

Ive been Russell's biggest critic. :oldlol:

How much does it suck to be you? Walz in to threads never contributing shit , just making quips.

Go get a fuccing Job you bum.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:30 PM

Go tear your Achilles , and fracture a Knee post 34 yrs old and see if you can move the same ever again.

Are you serious? You serious? :oldlol:

This guy can't even get to the painted area like he used to anymore.

So you're saying he game was dependent on athleticism?

Wes Matthews blew out his achilles last season, is less athletic than current Kobe, and he can still shoot and post :confusedshrug:

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:30 PM

Ive been Russell's biggest critic. :oldlol:

How much does it suck to be you? Walz in to threads never contributing shit , just making quips.

Go get a fuccing Job you bum.
I can post pics of the shit I took this morning and I'd still contribute more than you. You're the lowest of the low man, and every one on ISH knows it. In fact, I'd say you're the Kobe of ISH.

edit

Wait, my bad, you're not the lowest of the low. 20Four is slighty worse. Quite the achievement for the both of you. Congrats!

Chokefree

11-12-2015, 02:31 PM

Eye Test

11-12-2015, 02:31 PM

Is op mentally impaired? Kobe f'ed his ACHILLES amongst a plethora of other injuries. You are basically NOT SEING kobe since a couple of years back

ShawkFactory

11-12-2015, 02:32 PM

Top 3 player? He was 3rd in points per game, and scoring was the only thing he was doing :facepalm

8th in win shares, 10th in PER, 21st in WS/48

His superteam won 45 games that season and got swept in the 1st round

3rd best player in the league :facepalm
Lebron, Durant, Melo.

For his age and mileage he was spectacular. But all three of those guys had better seasons.

Eye Test

11-12-2015, 02:32 PM

Seriously did your parents smoke crack or someshit? Or maybe drop you on your head?

ALL OF THE ABOVE

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:33 PM

So you're saying he game was dependent on athleticism?

Wes Matthews blew out his achilles last season, is less athletic than current Kobe, and he can still shoot and post :confusedshrug:

Bro, Wes Mathews is no where near Kobe's age or minutes. For someone who loves to act all intelligent your arguments are dumb as ****.

Like I said if you watched him play instead of box score and post game write ups by some casual follower of the game , you would see Kobe has zero lift on his shot, barley can hold onto the ball because of all his finger injuries in the past catching up with him.

This isn't Space Jam , he didn't just wake up and all of a sudden decide to suck ass. :roll:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:35 PM

I can post pics of the shit I took this morning and I'd still contribute more than you. You're the lowest of the low man, and every one on ISH knows it. In fact, I'd say you're the Kobe of ISH.

edit

Wait, my bad, you're not the lowest of the low. 20Four is slighty worse. Quite the achievement for the both of you. Congrats!

What, you guys all sit around and discuss me in your PMs or something? :biggums:

I'm honestly flattered , but it sounds more like I'm just living rent free in your mind. your ho ass gets restless if I go a day without posting. *pets* Don't worry thotiana.

You'll always be my main.

Dragonyeuw

11-12-2015, 02:36 PM

Kobe is playing bad.

Everyone knows this, but OP's implication was to question if he's ever had GOAT level skill and footwork.

Couldn't possibly be talking about today as Kobe is a shell of his former self.

Either way, you guys knock yourselves out. :applause:

Part of it, a large part, is playing beyond his means. If he doesn't have his legs, why is he shooting 8 threes a game? With his skills and footwork, are you saying he's not able to generate better shots 15 ft and in? And no, I'm not here 'hating' on Kobe. It actually pains me to see Kobe going out like this, I hope the season at least ends better than it has started.

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:37 PM

What, you guys all sit around and discuss me in your PMs or something? :biggums:

I'm honestly flattered , but it sounds more like I'm just living rent free in your mind. your ho ass gets restless if I go a day without posting. *pets* Don't worry thotiana.

You'll always be my main.PM's? Where did you get that from? Are you having problems with reading? If so, hit me up! I'd love to help a brother out, and help him with the things he couldn't do, or learn, when he was younger, because his parents were too poor to get him some decent education.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:39 PM

Bro, Wes Mathews is no where near Kobe's age or minutes. For someone who loves to act all intelligent your arguments are dumb as ****.

Like I said if you watched him play instead of box score and post game write ups by some casual follower of the game , you would see Kobe has zero lift on his shot, barley can hold onto the ball because of all his finger injuries in the past catching up with him.

This isn't space Jam , he didn't just wake up and all of a sudden decide to suck ass. :roll:

I've been watching Lakers games. He has no lift (correct) and can barely hold the ball (correct).....so why does he keep going one on one? It's retarded. I know how well Kobe sees the game of basketball, and I blows my mind how he can continue to do something that's so obviously detrimental. If he really is one of the most skilled players of all time, he should be able to figure out a way to make a positive impact. He's either insanely selfish, or he's not really that skilled and all he can do is chuck.

The reason I brought up Wes is because he's an example of a guy who isn't athletic (never has been) and had a crippling injury, but still can play at an NBA level in a specific role (and he hasn't played great this year, but it hasn't been a dumpster fire like Kobe). Kobe used to be a godly athlete. Sure he lost a step ~2007 but he still was a great athlete with good size for his position. Now he's a bad athlete (like Wes) and he doesn't have the game to compensate.

You can't look at me with a straight face and say that one of the most skilled players of all time can't shoot the 3 at an average rate, and can't create better shots than shooting half his shots from 3? Where is that godly post game? Why can't he pick his battles, score against mismatches, and hit open shots play off the ball?

Lots of guys have been old and seriously injured and not been a massive detriment to their team. Bird averaged 20 ppg efficiently while he could barely run. Nash played and entire career with a degenerating back. THOSE are skilled guys.

Would anyone argue if I said shooting is the single most important skill in basketball?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:41 PM

Part of it, a large part, is playing beyond his means. If he doesn't have his legs, why is he shooting 8 threes a game? With his skills and footwork, are you saying he's not able to generate better shots 15 ft and in?

Because it's a struggle just for him to try and get to his sweet spots and even then he can't always get to the high or even low post because of the superior athleticism and youth he's facing on the perimeter as a guard in this league, also consider you have to use your legs to fade, and that's been his bread and butter for the better part of a 20 year career. Again, this guys can barely keep the ball in front of him now days.

His body is failing and by extension his talents, this is it for Kobe. Just let that ni99a limp off into the sunset if that's what he wants , you saying he doesn't deserve it after his tenure?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:42 PM

PM's? Where did you get that from? Are you having problems with reading? If so, hit me up! I'd love to help a brother out, and help him with the things he couldn't do, or learn, when he was younger, because his parents were too poor to get him some decent education.

I'm not the type to hit up dudes , sorry. :pimp:

JT123

11-12-2015, 02:43 PM

Uncle Drew pushing Hoopcity's shit in. :oldlol:

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 02:44 PM

Uncle Drew pushing Hoopcity's shit in. :oldlol:

couldn't agree more :lol :lol

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:45 PM

Uncle Drew pushing Hoopcity's shit in. :oldlol:
In before a comment about alts.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:46 PM

I've been watching Lakers games. He has no lift (correct) and can barely hold the ball (correct).....so why does he keep going one on one? It's retarded. I know how well Kobe sees the game of basketball, and I blows my mind how he can continue to do something that's so obviously detrimental. If he really is one of the most skilled players of all time, he should be able to figure out a way to make a positive impact. He's either insanely selfish, or he's not really that skilled and all he can do is chuck.

The reason I brought up Wes is because he's an example of a guy who isn't athletic (never has been) and had a crippling injury, but still can play at an NBA level in a specific role (and he hasn't played great this year, but it hasn't been a dumpster fire like Kobe). Kobe used to be a godly athlete. Sure he lost a step ~2007 but he still was a great athlete with good size for his position. Now he's a bad athlete (like Wes) and he doesn't have the game to compensate.

You can't look at me with a straight face and say that one of the most skilled players of all time can't shoot the 3 at an average rate, and can't get better shots shooting half his shots from 3? Where is that godly post game? Why can't he pick his battles, score against mismatches, and hit open shots play off the ball?

They ALL just iso and go one on one. That's Byron's so called Offensive scheme masquerading as the Princeton. You seem to have a problem with the coaching because it's not only Kobe doing such things on The Lakers.

None of our guards have a clue and rely on one on one iso to get shit done. There is no offense implemented these guys are out there playing scrimmage ball.

IMObjective

11-12-2015, 02:46 PM

You Kobe haters suffer from some sort of deficiency where you'll put it all on Kobe when The Lakers are losing and when they're winning he's only apart of the equation. Now that he's over the hill and basically a corpse at this point, it's easy to pick at his game and pretend he's always been unskilled , low Bball IQ etc.

This is true, Kobe haters do this. Of course, that's just part of what it means to hate.

2013 was not Kobe's fault. AT ALL. 27.3/5.6/6 46% fg. 51% inside the arc, and he only took 20 shots a game Now someone might come in and say he ruined chemistry with his issues with Dwight, and all I can say to that is maybe. But if Kobe hadn't played that season who knows how bad the Lakers would have been. Just look at their playoff results.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:47 PM

In before a comment about alts.

Damn, you impressing JT out here. You a legend bruh.

:oldlol:

This is what you live for? again go get your tired ass a job.

Eye Test

11-12-2015, 02:48 PM

HOoopCityJones single handedly body bagging these kids :lol

C
A
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N
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G
E

Dragonyeuw

11-12-2015, 02:48 PM

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 02:50 PM

Well then he should retire, and go out with some dignity. Agree?

Agreed. :cheers:

I sincerely hope he hangs it up for good before the media starts taking this into next gear and talking about destroyed legacies.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:50 PM

His body is failing and by extension his talents, this is it for Kobe. Just let that ni99a limp off into the sunset if that's what he wants , you saying he doesn't deserve it after his tenure?

Nobody here actually hates Kobe. I know I just hate his stans that have hyperbolized his career to such a degree for years. Kobe wouldn't get nearly as much hate if his fans weren't so ignorant and obstinant.

Uncle Drew

11-12-2015, 02:51 PM

Damn, you impressing JT out here. You a legend bruh.

:oldlol:

This is what you live for? again go get your tired ass a job.
I don't need a job, I'm still in college. Now I know you have no idea what a college is, since your clueless ass has never been to one. Mistake on my part.

While we're discussing school, let me ask you something; were you even able to finish high school, or had they already found out there was absolutely no hope for you?

JT123

11-12-2015, 02:51 PM

I've been watching Lakers games. He has no lift (correct) and can barely hold the ball (correct).....so why does he keep going one on one? It's retarded. I know how well Kobe sees the game of basketball, and I blows my mind how he can continue to do something that's so obviously detrimental. If he really is one of the most skilled players of all time, he should be able to figure out a way to make a positive impact. He's either insanely selfish, or he's not really that skilled and all he can do is chuck.

The reason I brought up Wes is because he's an example of a guy who isn't athletic (never has been) and had a crippling injury, but still can play at an NBA level in a specific role (and he hasn't played great this year, but it hasn't been a dumpster fire like Kobe). Kobe used to be a godly athlete. Sure he lost a step ~2007 but he still was a great athlete with good size for his position. Now he's a bad athlete (like Wes) and he doesn't have the game to compensate.

You can't look at me with a straight face and say that one of the most skilled players of all time can't shoot the 3 at an average rate, and can't create better shots than shooting half his shots from 3? Where is that godly post game? Why can't he pick his battles, score against mismatches, and hit open shots play off the ball?

Lots of guys have been old and seriously injured and not been a massive detriment to their team. Bird averaged 20 ppg efficiently while he could barely run. Nash played and entire career with a degenerating back. THOSE are skilled guys.

Would anyone argue if I said shooting is the single most important skill in basketball?
:applause:

FKAri

11-12-2015, 02:55 PM

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:55 PM

They ALL just iso and go one on one. That's Byron's so called Offensive scheme masquerading as the Princeton. You seem to have a problem with the coaching because it's not only Kobe doing such things on The Lakers.

None of our guards have a clue and rely on one on one iso to get shit done. There is no offense implemented these guys are out there playing scrimmage ball.

Kinda hard to get good players when your least effective player makes almost half the cap. Every other great around his age took a pay cut because they knew their time to put the team on their back was over.

Akrazotile

11-12-2015, 02:56 PM

Dirk is 6-11/7'

So are the guys that guard him

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 02:57 PM

Just because Kobe's stans are retarded doesn't mean you can insult Kobe like this.

Kobe had incredible longevity. It was just bad luck with some injuries otherwise we saw that his game (without major injuries) was transitioning very well into his later years. I don't think Lebron's will. In a couple years Lebron's gonna be Karl Malone with no post moves.

I don't think LeBron will translate well into old age either. Best case scenario I see is him playing point/stretch 4 alongside a great perimeter player by age 34. Averaging 15/7/7 on decent percentages probably.

KD will translate though. CP3 as well. I think Melo could score 20+ ppg until he's ~37. Don't see any reason why both Gasol brothers couldn't play at a starter level until age 37.

Kobe aged pretty gracefully, but I think it was due to his insane work ethic, not GOAT level skills.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:02 PM

Kinda hard to get good players when your least effective player makes almost half the cap. Every other great around his age took a pay cut because they knew their time to put the team on their back was over.

Again which is something you should take up with management, just like the so called "sets" the Lakers are running. :hammerhead:

Who in their right mind gives a 35 yr old that big of a contract coming off of an Achilles injury? You think he asked for it and they obliged?

Now you'll tell me Kobe should've known better. Anyone here would've taken the money, in fact anyone in the league IF and especially coming off a potential career ending injury. :oldlol:

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:07 PM

Again which is something you should up with management, just like the so called "sets" the Lakers are running. :hammerhead:

Who in their right mind gives a 35 yr old that big of a contract coming off of an Achilles injury? You think he asked for it and they obliged?

Now you'll tell me Kobe should've known better. Anyone here would've taken the money, in fact anyone in the league IF and especially coming off a potential career ending injury. :oldlol:

What should management have done, let him walk?
That's what I would have done, but the Buss family doesn't work like that. They gave Kobe what he asked for because their reputation as a franchise that takes care of players who are part of the "family" is important to their future free agent pitches.

They gave Kobe what he asked for. Kobe could have asked for less. How do you think the meeting between Dirk and Cuban went when he took a pay cut? Do you think Cuban told Dirk he had to take a pay cut? If Dirk had wanted to play out his career at $20m a season, I'm almost certain Cuban would have paid him. Dirk took less because he wanted to end his career playing on a real team.

How can you say anyone would have taken the money, when multiple of his peers have taken huge paycuts willingly?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:09 PM

What should management have done, let him walk?
That's what I would have done, but the Buss family doesn't work like that. They gave Kobe what he asked for because their reputation as a franchise that takes care of players who are part of the "family" is important to their future free agent pitches.

They gave Kobe what he asked for. Kobe could have asked for less. How do you think the meeting between Dirk and Cuban went when he took a pay cut? Do you think Cuban told Dirk he had to take a pay cut? If Dirk had wanted to play out his career at $20m a season, I'm almost certain Cuban would have paid him. Dirk took less because he wanted to end his career playing on a real team.

Bro, now you're just saying bullshit. Kobe did not ask them for that contract. :facepalm

Whatever man, like I said knock yourself out.

24-Inch_Chrome

11-12-2015, 03:09 PM

Dirk is a much, much better shooter. Smarter shooter too.

JT123

11-12-2015, 03:09 PM

Again which is something you should take up with management, just like the so called "sets" the Lakers are running. :hammerhead:

Who in their right mind gives a 35 yr old that big of a contract coming off of an Achilles injury? You think he asked for it and they obliged?

Now you'll tell me Kobe should've known better. Anyone here would've taken the money, in fact anyone in the league IF and especially coming off a potential career ending injury. :oldlol:
Except Duncan and Dirk VOLUNTARILY took pay cuts when they got old. Some legends actually care about the state their franchise will be in after they retire

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:17 PM

Bro, now you're just saying bullshit. Kobe did not ask them for that contract. :facepalm

Whatever man, like I said knock yourself out.

:confusedshrug: OK, so we've established that the remaining Buss' are retarded, and Kobe isn't skilled enough to be good without his athleticism.

I guess my work here is done.

JT123

11-12-2015, 03:17 PM

Lol what world do you live in? You think Buss just offered Kobe the super-max and Kobe shrugged and said "aww shucks, I'll take it"

You must be retarded.

You can bet your ass Kobe (well his agent) asked for the max. That's how contract negotiations work.
Exactly. I remember Kobe doing an interview late in the season in which he was asked if he would be taking a pay cut like Duncan had, and Kobe was like "nope, I'm gonna try and get as much as I can." :oldlol:
But let the Kobe stans keep pretending that Kobe would have taken any contract management offered him. :rolleyes:

Relinquish

11-12-2015, 03:18 PM

HOoopCityJones single handedly body bagging these kids :lol

C
A
R
N
A
G
E

Get off your alt, Jabbar.

Eye Test

11-12-2015, 03:22 PM

Get off your alt, Jabbar.

DAMN, thanks for comparing me to the GOAT. Though I wish I was half as good as him..:(

riseagainst

11-12-2015, 03:23 PM

hoopcityjones owning these nikkas!

:bowdown:

Eye Test

11-12-2015, 03:28 PM

hoopcityjones owning these nikkas!

:bowdown:

It's noteworthy how Hoopcityjones has improved as a poster in such a short period of time (MIP?). I don't remember him making much noise in the past and now he pimp walks with all these brantards hanging on his back, shaking them off with NO EFFORT :lol

ALPHA

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:33 PM

It's noteworthy how Hoopcityjones has improved as a poster in such a short period of time (MIP?). I don't remember him making much noise in the past and now he pimp walks with all these brantards hanging on his back, shaking them off with NO EFFORT :lol

ALPHA

Learned everything I know from the God, Jabbar. :bowdown:

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:34 PM

Hoopcityjones, do YOU watch the Lakers games? Because in that game where Randle scored 22 on "Dirk" he actually scored 4 points with Dirk defending him (and one tickytack foul later in the game when Dirk came in as help D). He abused Brandon Wright that game.

@Eye Test
Brantards:rolleyes: I dislike LeBron, and even said IN THIS THREAD how he wouldn't age gracefully

Doranku

11-12-2015, 03:34 PM

You guys truly are morons.
Kobe torn his achilles.

Period, end of discussion.

2013 Kobe was a top THREE player in the league before his injury.

People are so stupid. :oldlol: Kobe is literally 50% of the player he was pre-Achilles tear, that might even be generous.

All of his explosion and elevating abilities are gone. Of course it's gonna be hard for the guy to adjust, he can't even use his patented fade-away anymore because his lift is completely gone.

ISHGoat

11-12-2015, 03:35 PM

cringe

Doranku

11-12-2015, 03:36 PM

Hoopcityjones, do YOU watch the Lakers games? Because in that game where Randle scored 22 on "Dirk" he actually scored 4 points with Dirk defending him (and one tickytack foul later in the game when Dirk came in as help D). He abused Brandon Wright that game.

Brantards:rolleyes: I dislike LeBron, and even said IN THIS THREAD how he wouldn't age gracefully

Brandan Wright doesn't even play for the Mavericks you stupid f*ck.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:37 PM

Hoopcityjones, do YOU watch the Lakers games? Because in that game where Randle scored 22 on "Dirk" he actually scored 4 points with Dirk defending him (and one tickytack foul later in the game when Dirk came in as help D). He abused Brandon Wright that game.

Brandon Wright was on him a few plays? But so was Dirk. Where did you find this info by the way?

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:37 PM

Brandan Wright doesn't even play for the Mavericks you stupid f*ck.

Well whoever the **** that light skinned due was, it sure wasn't Dirk.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:38 PM

Brandan Wright doesn't even play for the Mavericks you stupid f*ck.

Well shit. :roll:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:39 PM

People are so stupid. :oldlol: Kobe is literally 50% of the player he was pre-Achilles tear, that might even be generous.

All of his explosion and elevating abilities are gone. Of course it's gonna be hard for the guy to adjust, he can't even use his patented fade-away anymore because his lift is completely gone.

This.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:40 PM

Brandon Wright was on him a few plays? But so was Dirk. Where did you find this info by the way?
They have this cool thing called YouTube where they show all his buckets.

And apparently it was Dwight Powell, because Wright is on the Griz now.

JT123

11-12-2015, 03:40 PM

Brandan Wright doesn't even play for the Mavericks you stupid f*ck.
You seem upset. It's not OP's fault that Kobe can't be an effective player without his athleticism.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:43 PM

They have this cool thing called YouTube where they show all his buckets.

And apparently it was Dwight Powell, because Wright is on the Griz now.

Bro, they were both guarding him and even if I'm to believe he was on him more than Dirk, you don't think that's because Randle was already having his way with Dirk by that point? :biggums:

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:47 PM

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:48 PM

Bro, they were both guarding him and even if I'm to believe he was on him more than Dirk, you don't think that's because Randle was already having his way with Dirk by that point? :biggums:

Maybe Dirk wasn't on him because you don't want a slow 7footer guarding a hyper athletic 6'9" forward who is a face-up driver? Because that doesn't make any sense?

Don't believe shit. Go look up the game and watch. Randle scores twice on Dirk early in the game, and then doesn't score on him again for the rest of the game.

West-Side

11-12-2015, 03:48 PM

Kobe was the 3rd best player at the end of the 2013 season.
Nothing else needs to be said.

The reason he's now struggling has everything to do with that achilles injury; everything.

oarabbus

11-12-2015, 03:51 PM

Well whoever the **** that light skinned due was, it sure wasn't Dirk.
Dwight Powell?

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:53 PM

Also, let me point out the logical fallacy of this thread , Kobe stopped doing crazy athletic shit arguably since 08, maybe even 09. Yet this is what he averaged as long ago as 2013.

27.3 pts 5.6 reb and 6.0 ast

Only player in NBA history with 30,000 points,6,000 assists and 6,000 rebounds with 9 all NBA defensive first teams.

Lay off this fuccing guy if he wants to stink up the joint on his way out, how is it hurting you or any other Kobe hater?

I don't have anything against Kobe. I have a problem with his stans claiming him as one of the top most skilled players of all time, when he clearly isn't and wasn't. He was a very skilled player, who was an elite athlete with great work ethic. He managed to stretch out his athleticism for a long time due to work ethic. A lot of his legend stems from luck. He played in a huge market, with great teams, and didn't lose any of his prime due to major injury.

All I want is for you stans to admit that you exaggerate. Guess I expected to much.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:53 PM

Maybe Dirk wasn't on him because you don't want a slow 7footer guarding a hyper athletic 6'9" forward who is a face-up driver? Because that doesn't make any sense?

Don't believe shit. Go look up the game and watch. Randle scores twice on Dirk early in the game, and then doesn't score on him again for the rest of the game.

And I'm saying as the fuccing Coach if you see a damn near rook coming off a season ending injury score easily twice on arguably your best player, you're not gonna make an adjustment?

Smarts and intelligence don't amount to shit if you don't apply it to anything noteworthy. You now rather argue semantics about Dirk vs Randle because your initial argument how it concerned Kobe is beyond flawed.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:54 PM

Kobe was the 3rd best player at the end of the 2013 season.
Nothing else needs to be said.

The reason he's now struggling has everything to do with that achilles injury; everything.
1. No he wasn't
2. At the end of the 2013 season, I was better than Kobe. The dude couldn't walk.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 03:55 PM

And I'm saying as the fuccing Coach if you see a damn near rook coming off a season ending injury score easily twice on arguably your best player, you're not gonna make an adjustment?

Smarts and intelligence don't amount to shit if you don't apply it to anything noteworthy. You now rather argue semantics about Dirk vs Randle because your initial argument how it concerned Kobe is beyond flawed.

I'm arguing this because I already won the first argument. All I'm doing is proving that you pull evidence out of your ass.

Who says I'm not doing anything with my intelligence? I'm a grad student. Writing this much is trivial for me.

West-Side

11-12-2015, 03:55 PM

1. No his wasn't
2. At the end of the 2013 season, I was better than Kobe. The dude couldn't walk.

Only LeBron & Durant were better than Kobe in 2013.

JT123

11-12-2015, 03:57 PM

Only LeBron & Durant were better than Kobe in 2013.
Melo says hi. :rolleyes: Wade had a case for being better as well, he just took fewer shots cause Bron was so dominant that year.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:58 PM

I don't have anything against Kobe. I have a problem with his stans claiming him as one of the top most skilled players of all time, when he clearly isn't and wasn't. He was a very skilled player, who was an elite athlete with great work ethic. He managed to stretch out his athleticism for a long time due to work ethic. A lot of his legend stems from luck. He played in a huge market, with great teams, and didn't lose any of his prime due to major injury.

All I want is for you stans to admit that you exaggerate. Guess I expected to much.

How is the premise of "If Kobe has GOAT level skill and footwork, how come he's not dominating at it in his old injury riddled age" not considered exaggeration? :oldlol:

Because at the end of the day that's all you're arguing. Kobe should be able to do everything he was doing pre 2013 despite his injuries. Trust me , I know Kobe stans can be unreasonable, but the shit you're in this thread bro is the poor attempt at a troll job.

Doranku

11-12-2015, 03:58 PM

I'm arguing this because I already won the first argument. All I'm doing is proving that you pull evidence out of your ass.

Dude. You called him out for not watching the game, then proceeded to say Randle was guarded by a Memphis Grizzlies player while playing against the Mavericks. :oldlol: You didn't "win" shit.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 03:59 PM

I'm arguing this because I already won the first argument. All I'm doing is proving that you pull evidence out of your ass.

Who says I'm not doing anything with my intelligence? I'm a grad student. Writing this much is trivial for me.

That Kobe should be just as good physically despite his two major injuries? :biggums:

When did you win that argument?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:00 PM

Dude. You called him out for not watching the game, then proceeded to say Randle was guarded by a Memphis Grizzlies player while playing against the Mavericks. :oldlol: You didn't "win" shit.

Crazy part is I did watch the game and Dirk could not guard Randle and that's why the adjustment was made in the first place.

1st play of the game is Randle dunking on Dirk.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:03 PM

Only LeBron & Durant were better than Kobe in 2013.

CP3. I'd rather have had Marc Gasol too. Russ, Curry, Melo, and Harden are all arguable.

Doranku

11-12-2015, 04:04 PM

CP3. I'd rather have had Marc Gasol too. Russ, Curry, Melo, and Harden are all arguable.
:roll: Just stop posting dude. You're an embarrassment.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:05 PM

That Kobe should be just as good physically despite his two major injuries? :biggums:

When did you win that argument?

If you really have misunderstood this badly, I can't help you.

My argument is that if Kobe is as skilled as you all claim, he should be able to be an NBA level player even with greatly diminished athleticism. As it stands, he's the worst player in the league right now.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:06 PM

:roll: Just stop posting dude. You're an embarrassment.

Defensive player of the year, and hub of the offense of an team that was actually a contender.

Winning games is about more than scoring

tpols

11-12-2015, 04:06 PM

Dirk is 6-11/7'

This..

You can have all footwork in the world, as a guard once you lose your quickness and fluidity your moves won't work as well

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:07 PM

CP3. I'd rather have had Marc Gasol too. Russ, Curry, Melo, and Harden are all arguable.

Than Kobe in 2013? :biggums:

Why lie just to prove a point? You're talking from the vantage point of seeing what all of those guys became.

In 2013 NO ONE was taking Curry, Melo, Marc or especially Harden over Kobe. That's a good joke and i'm glad you said it because now everyone can see your clear hatred and bias against Kobe.

Melo is the only one who even has a case on that list.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:08 PM

If you really have misunderstood this badly, I can't help you.

My argument is that if Kobe is as skilled as you all claim, he should be able to be an NBA level player even with greatly diminished athleticism. As it stands, he's the worst player in the league right now.

Again, you're claiming he should be able regardless of the major injuries suffered at his age. Are you a fuccing psycho or just retarded? :biggums:

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:08 PM

How is the premise of "If Kobe has GOAT level skill and footwork, how come he's not dominating at it in his old injury riddled age" not considered exaggeration? :oldlol:

Because at the end of the day that's all you're arguing. Kobe should be able to do everything he was doing pre 2013 despite his injuries. Trust me , I know Kobe stans can be unreasonable, but the shit you're in this thread bro is the poor attempt at a troll job.

Now where did I claim he should be dominating.....i'm just wonder why he can't play at an NBA level. Nobody expected him to dominate after that injury?....but if he's going to start and shoot 16 times a game he should at least be able to actually play and not embarrass himself.

Big difference between "dominating" and "not being the worst player in the league"

Don't put words in my mouth.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:11 PM

Than Kobe in 2013? :biggums:

Why lie just to prove a point? You're talking from the vantage point of seeing what all of those guys became.

In 2013 NO ONE was taking Curry, Melo, Marc or especially Harden over Kobe. That's a good joke and i'm glad you said it because now everyone can see your clear hatred and bias against Kobe.

Melo is the only one who even has a case on that list.
:facepalm is PPG literally the only way you judge players? Kobe played no defense and his team won 45 games, and if you go past the counting stats, he's statistically right around those other guys I mentioned. Don't get me started on the eye test:rolleyes: all those guys (outside of Melo) played team ball, and even Melo got whipped into shape by Kidd that season and played team ball.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:12 PM

Now where did I claim he should be dominating.....i'm just wonder why he can't play at an NBA level. Nobody expected him to dominate after that injury?....but if he's going to start and shoot 16 times a game he should at least be able to actually play and not embarrass himself.

Big difference between "dominating" and "not being the worst player in the league"

Don't put words in my mouth.

https://youtu.be/PZQbtAc_F48

This was just last year, is this not an above average floor game? Your answer will tell me all I need to know.

(since you like watching youtube videos)

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:13 PM

Again, you're claiming he should be able regardless of the major injuries suffered at his age. Are you a fuccing psycho or just retarded? :biggums:

If he can't play, then he shouldn't.
If he can, he should use his "GOAT footwork and skill" to actually play AVERAGE impact basketball.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:14 PM

:facepalm is PPG literally the only way you judge players? Kobe played no defense and his team won 45 games, and if you go past the counting stats, he's statistically right around those other guys I mentioned. Don't get me started on the eye test:rolleyes: all those guys (outside of Melo) played team ball, and even Melo got whipped into shape by Kidd that season and played team ball.

Now it's about Defense again? :oldlol:

Did you forget you're comparing him to Dirk who is an average defender?

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:15 PM

If he can't play, then he shouldn't.
If he can, he should use his "GOAT footwork and skill" to actually play AVERAGE impact basketball.

Like I said , you're just spinning wheels at this point. Every player should instantly retire after showing decline.

Should the spurs have retired circa 08-10 when it seemed like they were done? :facepalm

Bro, your hate for Kobe is apparent. Think what you want.

FKAri

11-12-2015, 04:19 PM

I find myself siding with hoopcityjones

brb taking a shower.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:20 PM

If he can't play, then he shouldn't.
If he can, he should use his "GOAT footwork and skill" to actually play AVERAGE impact basketball.

https://youtu.be/PZQbtAc_F48

This was just last year, is this not an above average floor game? Your answer will tell me all I need to know.

(since you like watching youtube videos)

So this isn't above average?

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:20 PM

https://youtu.be/PZQbtAc_F48

This was just last year, is this not an above average floor game? Your answer will tell me all I need to know.

(since you like watching youtube videos)

To bad they don't make highlight videos for "2-12, 6 turnovers" and "1-14"

That season Kobe had 3 games with a +/- better than 10. His best was +15

He had 4 games of -30 or worse:facepalm

Here's a video of Terrence Williams getting a triple double https://youtu.be/ZWefgoyhaHA

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:22 PM

Like I said , you're just spinning wheels at this point. Every player should instantly retire after showing decline.

Should the spurs have retired circa 08-10 when it seemed like they were done? :facepalm

Bro, your hate for Kobe is apparent. Think what you want.

None of the spurs were shooting 30% of their teams shots and hitting 32% of them.

When you're the worst player in the league, and you've made hundreds of millions of dollars.....you should quit.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:23 PM

Now it's about Defense again? :oldlol:

Did you forget you're comparing him to Dirk who is an average defender?

It is about defense when that guy calls Kobe a top-3 player. I wasn't comparing him to Dirk in that post, I was comparing pre-achilles Kobe to the best players in the league:facepalm

Reading comprehension. Learn it, or you'll never pass your GED.

No where in this thread did I say Kobe was unskilled or had bad footwork. I'm just saying there are lots of great players who were more skilled than Kobe, and he depends on his athleticism more than his stans will admit.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:24 PM

So this isn't above average?
Yes it was above average....for one game.

FKAri

11-12-2015, 04:25 PM

nvm y'all actually arguing different points instead of opposing ones :oldlol:

West-Side

11-12-2015, 04:26 PM

CP3. I'd rather have had Marc Gasol too. Russ, Curry, Melo, and Harden are all arguable.

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.4 SPG, 46 FG%, 57 TS%

I wouldn't mind anyone saying Chris Paul until you saw how Kobe was finishing the year. He was carrying LA on his back, making clutch shot after clutch shot. Literally earning them a playoff berth.

I think he was putting up something like 36 / 7 / 7 on 63 TS% in the final 20 games that year.

Gasol, Westbrook, Curry, Melo are an absolute joke, I'm not even going to bother discussing this.

Harden has a case, I suppose.

Harden: 25.9 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 44 FG%, 60 TS%

But then again, not really. His bulldozing to defenders all season to get free throws certainly doesn't make him a better player than Kobe was that year.

They had identical PER as well.

Kobe had more points, rebounds and assists.
He also had a higher FG%.

But more importantly, it's how Kobe carried LA to the playoffs that cemented him as the 3rd best player in the league that season.

In his last 25 games of the season; LA went 18-7.

Kobe had the following games:

40/7/4 on 15 for 23 shooting
38/12/7 on 13 for 21 shooting
29/6/9 on 12 for 23 shooting
33/5/5 on 13 for 22 shooting
34/6/4 on 13 for 27 shooting
42/7/12 on 14 for 21 shooting
41/6/12 on 11 for 22 shooting
31/3/7 on 12 for 21 shooting
30/6/6 on 9 for 18 shooting
47/8/5 on 14 for 27 shooting

Over these last 25 games, you want to know what he was putting up (despite sustaining an injury and missing a couple of games):

30.36 PPG, 6.55 RPG, 7.27 APG on 55 FG% & 63 TS%.

Yeah...

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:28 PM

Yes it was above average....for one game.

Well, he had multiple games like that last season , including vs Lebron. 19 & 17. But guess what it all ended in another season ending injury. He's a year older now, couldn't this be the year when it all comes apart for good? Because it sure seems that way.

Either way, Kobe was able to have a few above average games last year. Yet geniuses such as yourself were still crying about how awful kobe was. :oldlol:

know what that tells me? Even when Kobe was playing "above average" you were still making threads like these with your hater ass.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:41 PM

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.4 SPG, 46 FG%, 57 TS%

I wouldn't mind anyone saying Chris Paul until you saw how Kobe was finishing the year. He was carrying LA on his back, making clutch shot after clutch shot. Literally earning them a playoff berth.

I think he was putting up something like 36 / 7 / 7 on 63 TS% in the final 20 games that year.

Gasol, Westbrook, Curry, Melo are an absolute joke, I'm not even going to bother discussing this.

Harden has a case, I suppose.

Harden: 25.9 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 44 FG%, 60 TS%

But then again, not really. His bulldozing to defenders all season to get free throws certainly doesn't make him a better player than Kobe was that year.

They had identical PER as well.

Kobe had more points, rebounds and assists.
He also had a higher FG%.

But more importantly, it's how Kobe carried LA to the playoffs that cemented him as the 3rd best player in the league that season.

In his last 25 games of the season; LA went 18-7.

Kobe had the following games:

40/7/4 on 15 for 23 shooting
38/12/7 on 13 for 21 shooting
29/6/9 on 12 for 23 shooting
33/5/5 on 13 for 22 shooting
34/6/4 on 13 for 27 shooting
42/7/12 on 14 for 21 shooting
41/6/12 on 11 for 22 shooting
31/3/7 on 12 for 21 shooting
30/6/6 on 9 for 18 shooting
47/8/5 on 14 for 27 shooting

Over these last 25 games, you want to know what he was putting up (despite sustaining an injury and missing a couple of games):

30.36 PPG, 6.55 RPG, 7.27 APG on 55 FG% & 63 TS%.

Yeah...

Yeah, when you cut it off at the last 25 games the stats look good.....because that stretch starts right after a period where he averaged ~20 ppg. When you post a stretch where a player scored way more than their average, all that means is that had a streak where they scored way less than their average which offsets this.

Melo is a joke? He was just as important to his team as Kobe and his team had less and did more.
Gasol was DPOTY and the best passing C in the league.
Why exactly is Gasol a joke? Because he scored 14ppg? So is Nick Young better than him? Would you take prime Larry Hughes over Prime Marc Gasol?:facepalm

You're right though, Curry and Russ were clearly below Kobe that season. Sorry for exaggerating. See how easy that is, stans?:applause:

West-Side

11-12-2015, 04:45 PM

Yeah, when you cut it off at the last 25 games the stats look good.....because that stretch starts right after a period where he averaged ~20 ppg. When you post a stretch where a player scored way more than their average, all that means is that had a streak where they scored way less than their average which offsets this.

Melo is a joke? He was just as important to his team as Kobe and his team had less and did more.
Gasol was DPOTY and the best passing C in the league.
Why exactly is Gasol a joke? Because he scored 14ppg? So is Nick Young better than him? Would you take prime Larry Hughes over Prime Marc Gasol?:facepalm

You're right though, Curry and Russ were clearly below Kobe that season. Sorry for exaggerating. See how easy that is, stans?:applause:

Dude, Kobe put up 27/6/6 for the season while shooting 46 FG% & had a TS of 57.

:hammerhead:

It's better than all those players you mentioned.
Only Paul & Harden have a legit argument and I personally don't see how Harden was the better player, both through a statisitical analysis and through watching them both play.

The way Kobe finished the season simply solidified him as the 3rd best. He willed his team to wins that season. He was absolutely incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNz_JemCjHU

^^ Just a few days before Kobe ends up tearing his achilles. :(

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:46 PM

Well, he had multiple games like that last season , including vs Lebron. 19 & 17. But guess what it all ended in another season ending injury. He's a year older now, couldn't this be the year when it all comes apart for good? Because it sure seems that way.

Either way, Kobe was able to have a few above average games last year. Yet geniuses such as yourself were still crying about how awful kobe was. :oldlol:

know what that tells me? Even when Kobe was playing "above average" you were still making threads like these with your hater ass.

OK, so we can't criticize anyone as long as they have 2-5 good games a season.

Mike Beasly scored 25 points in 22 minutes in a game that season. I'd still tell you that on a whole, he sucked ass that year.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 04:47 PM

OK, so we can't critisize anyone as long as they have 2-5 good games a season.

Mike Beasly scored 25 points in 22 minutes in a game that season. I'd still tell you that on a whole, he sucked ass that year.

:roll:

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:47 PM

Dude, Kobe put up 27/6/6 for the season while shooting 46 FG% & had a TS of 57.

:hammerhead:

It's better than all those players you mentioned.
Only Paul & Harden have a legit argument and I personally don't see how Harden was the better player, both through a statisitical analysis and through watching them both play.

The way Kobe finished the season simply solidified him as the 3rd best. He willed his team to wins that season. He was absolutely incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNz_JemCjHU

^^ Just a few days before Kobe ends up tearing his achilles. :(

Just listing points/rebounds/assists/fg% is NOT how smart people judge players.

West-Side

11-12-2015, 04:48 PM

Just listing points/rebounds/assists/fg% is NOT how smart people judge players.

:oldlol:

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 04:49 PM

Ralph straight DESTROYING west-side :lol :lol

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:50 PM

:oldlol:
Kobe was 5th in MVP voting that season behind Melo AND CP3

So obviously someone agrees with me.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 04:52 PM

:roll:
Lol I can't even spell the *****'s name right:facepalm
:roll:

SpecialQue

11-12-2015, 04:58 PM

Awesome, another "fvck Kobe" post.

West-Side

11-12-2015, 04:59 PM

Kobe was 5th in MVP voting that season behind Melo AND CP3

So obviously someone agrees with me.

It's mostly because LA underachieved so much.
Nash had his back injury and Dwigth just wasn't himself.

LA were at one point like 21-29.
Kobe, at that stage of his career, to rally his team back into playoff contention was incredible.

I've watched every game that season and Kobe did the unthinkable to finish the year. That's why it was so difficult to digest his injury.

Carmelo did have more PPG & RPG, but he had less APG and wasn't as efficient as Kobe that year.

For Melo's extra 1.6 PPG and 1.3 RPG; Kobe was more efficient (+.013 FG% & .10 TS%) and had over 3 APG more.

It's the way Kobe was playing near the end that truly cements him as the 3rd best player that season. No one, including Durant & LeBron were playing better basketball. It's not just a random 25 game stretch I'm picking here; it's the last 25 games of the season (for Kobe).

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 05:11 PM

It's mostly because LA underachieved so much.
Nash had his back injury and Dwigth just wasn't himself.

LA were at one point like 21-29.
Kobe, at that stage of his career, to rally his team back into playoff contention was incredible.

I've watched every game that season and Kobe did the unthinkable to finish the year. That's why it was so difficult to digest his injury.

Carmelo did have more PPG & RPG, but he had less APG and wasn't as efficient as Kobe that year.

For Melo's extra 1.6 PPG and 1.3 RPG; Kobe was more efficient (+.013 FG% & .10 TS%) and had over 3 APG more.

It's the way Kobe was playing near the end that truly cements him as the 3rd best player that season. No one, including Durant & LeBron were playing better basketball. It's not just a random 25 game stretch I'm picking here; it's the last 25 games of the season (for Kobe).

:confusedshrug: What if I told you that the last 25 games aren't any more important than any other games?

BTW, out of those last 25 games, only 8 were against teams that finished the year with winning records. A bunch were against absolute cupcakes

JT123

11-12-2015, 05:14 PM

It's mostly because LA underachieved so much.
Nash had his back injury and Dwigth just wasn't himself.

LA were at one point like 21-29.
Kobe, at that stage of his career, to rally his team back into playoff contention was incredible.

I've watched every game that season and Kobe did the unthinkable to finish the year. That's why it was so difficult to digest his injury.

Carmelo did have more PPG & RPG, but he had less APG and wasn't as efficient as Kobe that year.

For Melo's extra 1.6 PPG and 1.3 RPG; Kobe was more efficient (+.013 FG% & .10 TS%) and had over 3 APG more.

It's the way Kobe was playing near the end that truly cements him as the 3rd best player that season. No one, including Durant & LeBron were playing better basketball. It's not just a random 25 game stretch I'm picking here; it's the last 25 games of the season (for Kobe).
:facepalm Just cause Kobe took advantage of a soft stretch in the Lakers schedule doesn't mean he was playing better than Lebron and Durant. Bron and Durant were actually beating legit teams that year, while Kobe was just winning games against lottery teams. :sleeping

West-Side

11-12-2015, 05:27 PM

:facepalm Just cause Kobe took advantage of a soft stretch in the Lakers schedule doesn't mean he was playing better than Lebron and Durant. Bron and Durant were actually beating legit teams that year, while Kobe was just winning games against lottery teams. :sleeping

Clippers, Celtics, Nuggets, Hawks, OKC, Bulls, Hawks, Pacers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Clippers, Warriors.

12 of those games were against winning teams.

ralph_i_el

11-12-2015, 05:33 PM

Clippers, Celtics, Nuggets, Hawks, OKC, Bulls, Hawks, Pacers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Clippers, Warriors.

12 of those games were against winning teams.

My bad, I should stop posting while I'm driving lol. I counted the 68th and 69th game of the season without seeing that Kobe didn't play in those games. BBall ref needs a mobile app

JT123

11-12-2015, 05:44 PM

Clippers, Celtics, Nuggets, Hawks, OKC, Bulls, Hawks, Pacers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Clippers, Warriors.

12 of those games were against winning teams.
Just looked it up. Their record against playoff teams during that 25 game stretch was 8-6. However, 3 of those wins came in games that Kobe didn't even play! So nearly half their wins against playoff teams during that stretch came without the guy who was supposedly "single handedly carrying them" to the postseason. :rolleyes:
As I said, Kobe merely took advantage of the cupcake teams he was facing. Nothing special tbh

ArbitraryWater

11-12-2015, 05:45 PM

sportjames23

11-12-2015, 05:52 PM

:confusedshrug: What if I told you that the last 25 games aren't any more important than any other games?

BTW, out of those last 25 games, only 8 were against teams that finished the year with winning records. A bunch were against absolute cupcakes

You producing an ESPN 30 for 30?

West-Side

11-12-2015, 05:56 PM

Just looked it up. Their record against playoff teams during that 25 game stretch was 8-6. However, 3 of those wins came in games that Kobe didn't even play! So nearly half their wins against playoff teams during that stretch came without the guy who was supposedly "single handedly carrying them" to the postseason. :rolleyes:
As I said, Kobe merely took advantage of the cupcake teams he was facing. Nothing special tbh

But his production was special man.
You have to remember LA were a "cupcake" team that weren't even in the playoff picture before this run.

Kobe essentially was doing everything himself in those wins.
They went 10-1 against non-playoff teams, but so what?

LA wasn't a great team to begin with and were swept by SA without Kobe in the 1st round.

30/7/7 on 55% & 63 TS%.
C'mon dude, that's impressive as phuck.

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 05:58 PM

You producing an ESPN 30 for 30?

:oldlol:

Jameerthefear

11-12-2015, 06:03 PM

Hoop City Jones is so ****ing stupid man. Gets proven wrong with facts and then backpeddles like a little bitch.

SexSymbol

11-12-2015, 06:05 PM

Hoop City Jones is so ****ing stupid man. Gets proven wrong with facts and then backpeddles like a little bitch.
You want me to call real14 up in here? Sit down and shut your ass up

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 06:05 PM

Hoop City Jones is so ****ing stupid man. Gets proven wrong with facts and then backpeddles like a little bitch.

co-sign :lol :lol :lol

Hey Yo

11-12-2015, 06:13 PM

riseagainst

11-12-2015, 06:16 PM

You want me to call real14 up in here? Sit down and shut your ass up

stalkerforlife will rek his azz.... again.

Jameerthefear

11-12-2015, 06:19 PM

You want me to call real14 up in here? Sit down and shut your ass up
Yeah, go ahead and call his ass in here. Maybe you can borrow his helmet, you ****ing retard.

kennethgriffin

11-12-2015, 06:26 PM

JT123

11-12-2015, 06:26 PM

But his production was special man.
You have to remember LA were a "cupcake" team that weren't even in the playoff picture before this run.

Kobe essentially was doing everything himself in those wins.
They went 10-1 against non-playoff teams, but so what?

LA wasn't a great team to begin with and were swept by SA without Kobe in the 1st round.

30/7/7 on 55% & 63 TS%.
C'mon dude, that's impressive as phuck.
But that's the problem, they shouldn't have been a cupcake team at any point that season. I know Nash and Gasol missed a shit ton of games that year, but Kobe still had Dwight for 76 games. In the two full seasons that Harden has had Dwight he's never finished with anything worse than a top 5 seed. If Kobe's 2013 season was as great as his fan boys claim then there is no way the Lakers should have been struggling to make the playoffs, especially if a much inferior player in Harden (according to Kobe stans) managed to get a top 5 seed with just Dwight for 2 straight seasons. :confusedshrug:
And don't give me any excuses about Howard not being himself in 2013, cause the Dwight that Harden has played with hasn't been anymore productive than the one Kobe played with.

kennethgriffin

11-12-2015, 06:31 PM

But that's the problem, they shouldn't have been a cupcake team at any point that season. I know Nash and Gasol missed a shit ton of games that year, but Kobe still had Dwight for 76 games. In the two full seasons that Harden has had Dwight he's never finished with anything worse than a top 5 seed. If Kobe's 2013 season was as great as his fan boys claim then there is no way the Lakers should have been struggling to make the playoffs, especially if a much inferior player in Harden (according to Kobe stans) managed to get a top 5 seed with just Dwight for 2 straight seasons. :confusedshrug:
And don't give me any excuses about Howard not being himself in 2013, cause the Dwight that Harden has played with hasn't been anymore productive than the one Kobe played with.

kobe played great in 2012-13

if the team struggled then it wasnt his fault

cant hate on 27/6/6 on 46% with 1st team all nba honors

HOoopCityJones

11-12-2015, 06:39 PM

co-sign :lol :lol :lol

Who's alt are you sweety?

JT123

11-12-2015, 06:44 PM

kobe played great in 2012-13

if the team struggled then it wasnt his fault

cant hate on 27/6/6 on 46% with 1st team all nba honors
I don't care about stats, I care about wins. Kobe spent the first two months of the season playing ridiculously selfish basketball. A team that talented does not need any one player taking 25 shots a night. Even if he was being efficient (for him) he was ruining chemistry and bringing down the morale of his teammates by not getting them involved.
Another reason that team was so bad was their lack of defense, and Kobe was a HUGE part of that. 27 ppg looks nice on paper, but isn't that valuable when you are giving up nearly the same amount on the other end of the floor.

DaOldLion

11-12-2015, 06:51 PM

I don't care about stats, I care about wins.

must suck being a lebron stan then

kennethgriffin

11-12-2015, 07:03 PM

I don't care about stats, I care about wins. Kobe spent the first two months of the season playing ridiculously selfish basketball. A team that talented does not need any one player taking 25 shots a night. Even if he was being efficient (for him) he was ruining chemistry and bringing down the morale of his teammates by not getting them involved.
Another reason that team was so bad was their lack of defense, and Kobe was a HUGE part of that. 27 ppg looks nice on paper, but isn't that valuable when you are giving up nearly the same amount on the other end of the floor.

funny coming from a lebron fan

2 for 6

SexSymbol

11-12-2015, 07:04 PM

must suck being a lebron stan then
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hlysht.gif

Doranku

11-12-2015, 07:06 PM

Kobe: 27.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.4 SPG, 46 FG%, 57 TS%

I wouldn't mind anyone saying Chris Paul until you saw how Kobe was finishing the year. He was carrying LA on his back, making clutch shot after clutch shot. Literally earning them a playoff berth.

I think he was putting up something like 36 / 7 / 7 on 63 TS% in the final 20 games that year.

Gasol, Westbrook, Curry, Melo are an absolute joke, I'm not even going to bother discussing this.

Harden has a case, I suppose.

Harden: 25.9 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.9 APG, 1.8 SPG, 44 FG%, 60 TS%

But then again, not really. His bulldozing to defenders all season to get free throws certainly doesn't make him a better player than Kobe was that year.

They had identical PER as well.

Kobe had more points, rebounds and assists.
He also had a higher FG%.

But more importantly, it's how Kobe carried LA to the playoffs that cemented him as the 3rd best player in the league that season.

In his last 25 games of the season; LA went 18-7.

Kobe had the following games:

40/7/4 on 15 for 23 shooting
38/12/7 on 13 for 21 shooting
29/6/9 on 12 for 23 shooting
33/5/5 on 13 for 22 shooting
34/6/4 on 13 for 27 shooting
42/7/12 on 14 for 21 shooting
41/6/12 on 11 for 22 shooting
31/3/7 on 12 for 21 shooting
30/6/6 on 9 for 18 shooting
47/8/5 on 14 for 27 shooting

Over these last 25 games, you want to know what he was putting up (despite sustaining an injury and missing a couple of games):

30.36 PPG, 6.55 RPG, 7.27 APG on 55 FG% & 63 TS%.

Yeah...

This just makes me sad. Kobe would still be a top 10 player today if he didn't tear that damn Achilles. :( He was so god damn good that season. Easily his best season since 2010.

JT123

11-12-2015, 07:11 PM

must suck being a lebron stan then
How so. He's got more FMVPs than Kobe had by age 30. :wtf:
This thread is about Kobe though. Bringing up Lebron out of the blue just means he's living rent free, and that you are incredibly insecure about what an awful player Kobe has turned into. :sleeping

Gus Hemmingway

11-12-2015, 07:14 PM

JT straight SHITTING on these fools :lol :cheers:

kennethgriffin

11-12-2015, 07:15 PM

How so. He's got more FMVPs than Kobe had by age 30. :wtf:
This thread is about Kobe though. Bringing up Lebron out of the blue just means he's living rent free, and that you are incredibly insecure about what an awful player Kobe has turned into. :sleeping

mvps arent wins

:lol

thats a nomination moron

:roll:

kennethgriffin

11-12-2015, 07:16 PM

JT straight SHITTING on these fools :lol :cheers:

no youre not

Odinn

11-12-2015, 07:19 PM

I can name several better players in terms of skill and footwork but that doesn't mean Kobe isn't great.
I'd say ego is different than skill and footwork. Kobe's problem is attitude. He won't accept a lesser role (& paycheck) in the team until his retirement.

JT123

11-12-2015, 07:23 PM

JT straight SHITTING on these fools :lol :cheers:
:cheers: It's too easy honestly

sportjames23

11-12-2015, 07:29 PM

no youre not

You saying Gus = JT?

bizil

11-12-2015, 10:37 PM

Kobe's body is failing him PLAIN AND SIMPLE!! Usually big guys age better than the great perimeter players. In particular ones like Kobe who were ultra athletic AND had a ton or responsibilities on the court. Suffering a torn Achilles at that stage of Kobe's career started his rapid decline.

Dirk for what I can recall, NEVER suffered such a terrible injury. Plus he is a 7'0 stretch PF. The greatest big man shooter of all time who ALSO had a great scoring skillset in general. And if all else fails, Dirk can ALWAYS move to a stretch center type of position.

Unless u are a perimeter player who can move to the PF more exclusively later in your career (Bird, Magic, eventually Bron and Melo, maybe even Durant), u usually aren't gonna have the same longevity as the great big men.

catch24

11-12-2015, 10:40 PM

If Larry Bird had GOAT level skill and footwork...why did he only average 11ppg his last year in the playoffs?

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

24-Inch_Chrome

11-12-2015, 10:43 PM

If Larry Bird had GOAT level skill and footwork...why did he only average 11ppg his last year in the playoffs?

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Dude was still able to score 20 PPG on 46/40/90 in the regular season...

45 game regular season sample vs 4 game playoff sample, seems clear enough to me which one is more telling.

TripleA

11-12-2015, 10:45 PM

catch24

11-12-2015, 11:02 PM

Dude was still able to score 20 PPG on 46/40/90 in the regular season...

45 game regular season sample vs 4 game playoff sample, seems clear enough to me which one is more telling.

An entire playoff series where he averaged just 11 points? Seems like a good enough sample to me. :confusedshrug:

But if you still disagree, just look at the "GOAT skilled" center, Hakeem The Dream.

In his last season, guy averaged just 7ppg and 6reb on 46% shooting... Terrible. Was he really actually skilled?

JT123

11-12-2015, 11:23 PM

I find it funny that couch potatoes know how hard is play through traumatic and debilitating injuries. Like Wiggin's back. I had back spasms and they made entire body limited my hips,my legs,my arms. Kobe injuries and age are at point where he can't continue to play at a NBA starter level.
But why though? Kobe's stans have been preaching for years about how he is the most skilled and fundamentally sound player in NBA history. That he could average over 20 ppg into his mid 40's because he has never relied on athleticism. :confusedshrug:
No one is expecting Kobe to be a dominate player, but why can't he use all those GOAT skills (according to his stans) in his repertoire to at least be a semi productive player? Whether Laker fans wanna admit it or not Kobe is a huge net negative to the team right now, and in a way that no other ATG has ever been during their final season.

HenryGarfunkle

11-12-2015, 11:30 PM

But why though? Kobe's stans have been preaching for years about how he is the most skilled and fundamentally sound player in NBA history. That he could average over 20 ppg into his mid 40's because he has never relied on athleticism. :confusedshrug:
No one is expecting Kobe to be a dominate player, but why can't he use all those GOAT skills (according to his stans) in his repertoire to at least be a semi productive player? Whether Laker fans wanna admit it or not Kobe is a huge net negative to the team right now, and in a way that no other ATG has ever been during their final season.
well it's not a revelation that kobe stans talk out of their ass for attention, hence the stupidly absurd statements about kobes "goat skillset" ... :oldlol:

Here are the major skills in basketball: Dribbling, passing, shooting

Kobe isn't close to having the most skill in ANY of the above departments. None. Like, he's not even in the discussion for them.

Which is why now, without his athleticism, is literally one of, if not the worst player in the league.

That's just reality.

catch24

11-12-2015, 11:33 PM

^By these two posters logic, Hakeem Olajuwon was also "just athleticism".

Guy had worse stats than Kobe his last season. :lol

24-Inch_Chrome

11-12-2015, 11:39 PM

catch24

11-12-2015, 11:43 PM

JT123

11-12-2015, 11:46 PM

^By these two posters logic, Hakeem Olajuwon was also "just athleticism".

Guy had worse stats than Kobe his last season. :lol
I'm assuming by "worse stats" you are only talking about ppg? Cause I highly doubt Hakeem was shooting 32%, or leading his team in shot attempts while hindering the growth of younger players. :rolleyes:
You don't think Hakeem could have averaged 16 ppg if he had decided to mindlessly chuck all game every game, while not even trying to play defense?! Kobe is so bad right now that respected journalists and radio personalities who have supported him his entire career are literally making fun of him. And who can blame them? The way he's ending his career is honestly a joke, as he has confirmed every negative stereotype about him that exists.

DaOldLion

11-12-2015, 11:49 PM

Hakeem was playing on a playoff team that featured prime Vince Carter and Hakeem wasn't even the 2nd best big on the team, of course he's going to get less minutes and have less usage

Lakers have four rookies and a stubborn coach, coming into the season Kobe looked like the best offensive option, so it's no surprise that through the first 6 games would be the go to guy, which he obviously isn't capable of anymore. JC is going to be the go to guy going forward more than likely. And Kobe isn't taking 20 shots per game, he's at 16 and hasn't gone over 20 since the opening game..

Kobe's obviously done but to act like he wasn't one of the more skilled players in nba history because he sucks at 37 after 2 season ending injuries is just ignorant

Fire Colangelo

11-12-2015, 11:49 PM

Meh. I give Kobe shit all the time, and think he should hang them up. Said as much in the Laker game-threads.

In the end, both Hakeem and Kobe are terrible. And they were both ONLY about their athletic prowess. :no:

Hakeem was averaging 19/10 at 36.

At 37 years old, he was easily averaging a double double on good defense playing ~30 minutes per game until he got injured, and his minutes went down to around 15-20ish.

I can't really blame Kobe for sucking right now, but I don't think we've seen this much of a drop off from anyone....

HenryGarfunkle

11-12-2015, 11:51 PM

I'm assuming by "worse stats" you are only talking about ppg? Cause I highly doubt Hakeem was shooting 32%, or leading his team in shot attempts while hindering the growth of younger players. :rolleyes:
You don't think Hakeem could have averaged 16 ppg if he had decided to mindlessly chuck all game every game, while not even trying to play defense?! Kobe is so bad right now that respected journalists and radio personalities who have supported him his entire career are literally making fun of him. And who can blame them? The way he's ending his career is honestly a joke, as he has confirmed every negative stereotype about him that exists.
ether.

DaOldLion

11-12-2015, 11:52 PM

Hakeem was averaging 19/10 at 36.

At 37 years old, he was easily averaging a double double on good defense playing ~30 minutes per game until he got injured, and his minutes went down to around 15-20ish.

I can't really blame Kobe for sucking right now, but I don't think we've seen this much of a drop off from anyone....

so Hakeem gets the injury excuse but Kobe doesn't? You use that as your excuse for him to drop off from a double double to then averaging 10/6 the very next year..

catch24

11-12-2015, 11:54 PM

Hakeem was averaging 19/10 at 36.

At 37 years old, he was easily averaging a double double on good defense playing ~30 minutes per game until he got injured, and his minutes went down to around 15-20ish.

I can't really blame Kobe for sucking right now, but I don't think we've seen this much of a drop off from anyone....

Hakeem also peaked in his 30's.

I used seasons because...well, I thought it was self explanatory that Kobe was drafted out of highschool and had FAR more mileage than Hakeem did.

BTW, Kobe tore his achilles. Just an FYI.

HenryGarfunkle

11-12-2015, 11:55 PM

so Hakeem gets the injury excuse but Kobe doesn't? You use that as your excuse for him to drop off from a double double to then averaging 10/6 the very next year..
i think you missed the part where he said the minutes went down, his role diminished.

kobes had plenty of time to get healthy enough to be a decent player, but he's not. Because he can't shoot, can't pass, and can't make good decisions on a basketball court.

catch24

11-12-2015, 11:58 PM

DaOldLion

11-12-2015, 11:58 PM

i think you missed the part where he said the minutes went down, his role diminished.

kobes had plenty of time to get healthy enough to be a decent player, but he's not. Because he can't shoot, can't pass, and can't make good decisions on a basketball court.

Of course his minutes went down, apparently you missed the point. Hakeem was playing on teams 2/3 of those years on teams that won 45 games or made the playoffs. Prime Francis and Carter he played with. If Kobe was on a team that was capable of making the playoffs and had a superstar beside him his minutes and role would diminish also.

HenryGarfunkle

11-13-2015, 12:00 AM

JT123

11-13-2015, 12:05 AM

well it's not a revelation that kobe stans talk out of their ass for attention, hence the stupidly absurd statements about kobes "goat skillset" ... :oldlol:

Here are the major skills in basketball: Dribbling, passing, shooting

Kobe isn't close to having the most skill in ANY of the above departments. None. Like, he's not even in the discussion for them.

Which is why now, without his athleticism, is literally one of, if not the worst player in the league.

That's just reality.
:applause: I guess a fourth major skill in basketball could be footwork, which Kobe could be decent at, but nowhere near as good as his stans constantly claimed. I mean if his footwork was so great why isn't he using it now to try and get easy buckets down low? Instead he's shooting ten 3's a night at a 20% clip. :facepalm

JT123

11-13-2015, 12:15 AM

Of course his minutes went down, apparently you missed the point. Hakeem was playing on teams 2/3 of those years on teams that won 45 games or made the playoffs. Prime Francis and Carter he played with. If Kobe was on a team that was capable of making the playoffs and had a superstar beside him his minutes and role would diminish also.
Kobe has no one to blame for this but himself. If he had made more of an effort to make Howard comfortable then other free agents would likely have taken notice and decided to join him in LA during his twighlight. Howard even admitted how disappointed he was that Kobe never stuck up for him when the LA media and fans spent the entire season throwing him under the bus, despite the fact that he returned from back surgery 2 months early! Kobe received all the credit for everything good about that season, while Howard received all of the blame for everything bad. You're delusional if you don't think other players took notice of that, and smartly decided to stay away from Kobe and the Lakers.

West-Side

11-13-2015, 10:56 AM

Dude was still able to score 20 PPG on 46/40/90 in the regular season...

45 game regular season sample vs 4 game playoff sample, seems clear enough to me which one is more telling.

Ah lets compare a player who played what, 10-12 seasons in the NBA to a player who almost doubled the total minutes Bird has played. Not to mention Kobe suffering an injury that derailed his ability to get lift on his jump shot. His game is tailored around that. Bird had a flat shot, similar to Dirk's. They didn't need lift to be effective.

You ****ing morons seriously are now attacking Kobe's footwork?
There are TWO players that are in their own prestige's tier; Hakeem & Kobe. If you morons actually don't believe that, than you have NO CLUE about the game at all.

24-Inch_Chrome

11-13-2015, 10:58 AM

Why do you act like such a salty little bitch in literally every thread you post in? :lol

I said nothing negative about Kobe's footwork...

West-Side

11-13-2015, 11:12 AM

Hakeem was playing 22 minutes per game, attempting only 7 field goals. Bryant is playing 30 and attempting 20 field goals per game. That's the difference.

If Kobe was deferring, no one would give him shit. But he's not; despite being clearly unable to perform at an NBA level he's still insisting on dominating the ball and taking shots that he has no business taking. He also the highest USG% of any starter on his team.

We all knew that Kobe was going to be bad this year, injuries do that. No one should give him crap for that. We should give him crap for refusing to defer and hindering the development of the young players on the team with his chucking and ball dominance. He's being selfish, plain and simple.

There is nothing in this post that I don't disagree with.
I have no problem criticizing Kobe for making dumb decisions and playing selfish ball, but I do have a problem when historians on this forum forget history, and try their best to fictitiously belittle Kobe.

I still find it hysterical that people consider 07' Duncan better than 07' Kobe. Adjust league averages and you basically have a 96' Michael Jordan. The #s are identical, in fact, favoring Kobe slightly.

But when I spend time actually showing people why you can't compare raw numbers across era's, I get either a) crickets or b) trolls. And when I do make good points, people resort to arbitrary criteria such as defense as reasons why someone like Duncan was better than Kobe.

The problem is, no one in their right mind would have taken someone like Ben Wallace over Allen Iverson. Despite Wallace being a defensive anchor and a greater rebounder than Duncan (and a better shot blocker). Sure he didn't have Timmy's offensive arsenal but my point stands. Kobe was so much above Duncan offensively (both as a scorer & play-maker) that it doesn't ****ing matter that Duncan was a defensive anchor for 33 minutes a game. Like it absolutely breaks common logic here. Who the **** would consider taking a center that plays 33 minutes a game, scores 11 points less a game on LOWER efficiency (using TS%), isn't a better play-maker and Kobe still made 1st team all-D.

Fact is, there's just no way you can convince me that Duncan was better.
They had the same PER, which means Duncan at 34.1 MPG wasn't any more effective on the court than Kobe at 40.8 MPG. Which means, you got an extra 7 minutes from Kobe performing equally (in terms of PER) for his team.

Kobe was on a different level scoring wise (while being more efficient at it) and a better play-maker. The discrepancy in defense definitely doesn't make Duncan better. It's that arbitrary criteria that Duncan lovers love to use to build up his case.

Kobe put up 32.8 - 5.2 - 4.4 on .561 TS% in the playoffs.
Duncan put up 22.2 - 11.5 - 3.3 on .556 TS% in the playoffs.

So again, Kobe puts up almost 10 PPG more on better efficiency and was the better play-maker.

It's unhealthy to hate.

West-Side

11-13-2015, 11:13 AM

Why do you act like such a salty little bitch in literally every thread you post in? :lol

I said nothing negative about Kobe's footwork...

My second paragraph wasn't directed to you.

Dragonyeuw

11-13-2015, 11:22 AM

kobes shot was highly dependant on his legs. he got up really high on his jumpers throughout his career

dirks always had more of a flat footed set shot

since the achilles injury kobe has been getting half as high on his shots so he basically had to relearn how to shoot

and for a shooting guard its hard to adjust to that style. especially when defenders are mostly longer and more athletic.

2012-13 season

http://i68.tinypic.com/k0og3b.jpg

2014-15 season

http://i67.tinypic.com/2uyt7wh.jpg

/thread

He's also clanked/airballed his share of open shots too. I honestly think it's a confidence issue especially in those situations, because I don't doubt that Kobe could reform his shot taken into account the dramatic drop in lift, even if its just to be more accurate whenever he's had open/good looks. His body is literally falling apart, and he's trying to will himself beyond that, leading to what we're seeing right now.

West-Side

11-13-2015, 11:33 AM

He's also clanked/airballed his share of open shots too. I honestly think it's a confidence issue especially in those situations, because I don't doubt that Kobe could reform his shot taken into account the dramatic drop in lift, even if its just to be more accurate whenever he's had open/good looks. His body is literally falling apart, and he's trying to will himself beyond that, leading to what we're seeing right now.

When your physical capabilities decline, so does your confidence my friend.

24-Inch_Chrome

11-13-2015, 12:21 PM

My second paragraph wasn't directed to you.

My bad. :cheers:

I'm no Kobe fan but some of the criticism this year has been ridiculous. Can't expect the guy to be a good player at this point in his career, everyone ages and it it's silly to hold that against him.

Dragonyeuw

11-13-2015, 12:23 PM

When your physical capabilities decline, so does your confidence my friend.

Uh yes, that is quite clearly what I said.

"I honestly think it's a confidence issue especially in those situations"

HenryGarfunkle

11-13-2015, 12:26 PM

When your physical capabilities decline, so does your confidence my friend.
speak for yourself, limp-dick

kobe is basically thrusting as hard as ever even though he's 100% flaccid

confidence isn't the issue, he just stinks.

Gus Hemmingway

11-13-2015, 12:31 PM

speak for yourself, limp-dick

kobe is basically thrusting as hard as ever even though he's 100% flaccid

confidence isn't the issue, he just stinks.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

West-Side

11-13-2015, 12:38 PM

speak for yourself, limp-dick

kobe is basically thrusting as hard as ever even though he's 100% flaccid

confidence isn't the issue, he just stinks.

Ego and confidence are two different things, my friend.

ralph_i_el

11-13-2015, 02:03 PM

Fire Colangelo

11-13-2015, 02:23 PM

so Hakeem gets the injury excuse but Kobe doesn't? You use that as your excuse for him to drop off from a double double to then averaging 10/6 the very next year..

Um.... Hakeem's numbers dropped because he was playing half the minutes and getting half the shots after his injury.

Kobe's number dropped because his efficiency is shit.

It's one thing to get injured, and not having the same game as you used to have.

It's another thing to get injured, and pretend you're still in 2006 putting up bad shot after bad shot on 32% FG....

Hakeem also peaked in his 30's.

I used seasons because...well, I thought it was self explanatory that Kobe was drafted out of highschool and had FAR more mileage than Hakeem did.

BTW, Kobe tore his achilles. Just an FYI.

^ well he should act like he tore his achilles and not shoot 16 shots a game?

If he doesn't have his legs under him, maybe he should run more pick and rolls and facilitate a little bit more? Get his teammates open looks?

Or maybe he could try to cut more to get easier buckets?

But nah, he's still chucking away with defenders in his face like it's 2006. That's what I have a problem with....

It's okay to suck at an old age, but it's not okay to suck this bad... honestly.

I understand what the OP is trying to say, if he's as skilled as his fans make him seem like he is. Why doesn't he take a role in facilitating?

I know he has shitty teammates, but they can atlease make more than 32% of their shots.

JT123

11-13-2015, 02:51 PM

speak for yourself, limp-dick

kobe is basically thrusting as hard as ever even though he's 100% flaccid

confidence isn't the issue, he just stinks.
:roll:

stalkerforlife

11-13-2015, 03:02 PM

If Bran is great, why did he leave his team twice in his prime to form two separate super-teams?

riseagainst

11-13-2015, 03:10 PM

speak for yourself, limp-dick

kobe is basically thrusting as hard as ever even though he's 100% flaccid

confidence isn't the issue, he just stinks.

:roll:

TemporaMutantur

11-13-2015, 03:40 PM

Dirk has timeless go-to moves that don't rely on athleticism, but rather, mostly finesse.

Kobe was a 50/50 (finesse/athleticism) player, both which worked in harmony. Now that the athleticism is gone, which I believe he is stubborn about realizing, he is having trouble to balance his game to the finesse side.

Also the guy is just missing shots he made his whole career, like jumpers from the elbow. I don't know if he just hasn't made the adjustment to compensate for his lack of lift, but shieeeeeet, he simply doesn't have it going right now.

ralph_i_el

11-13-2015, 03:56 PM

If Bran is great, why did he leave his team twice in his prime to form two separate super-teams?
**** LeBron. This thread isn't about him.

ralph_i_el

11-13-2015, 03:57 PM

Um.... Hakeem's numbers dropped because he was playing half the minutes and getting half the shots after his injury.

Kobe's number dropped because his efficiency is shit.

It's one thing to get injured, and not having the same game as you used to have.

It's another thing to get injured, and pretend you're still in 2006 putting up bad shot after bad shot on 32% FG....

^ well he should act like he tore his achilles and not shoot 16 shots a game?

If he doesn't have his legs under him, maybe he should run more pick and rolls and facilitate a little bit more? Get his teammates open looks?

Or maybe he could try to cut more to get easier buckets?

But nah, he's still chucking away with defenders in his face like it's 2006. That's what I have a problem with....

It's okay to suck at an old age, but it's not okay to suck this bad... honestly.

I understand what the OP is trying to say, if he's as skilled as his fans make him seem like he is. Why doesn't he take a role in facilitating?

I know he has shitty teammates, but they can atlease make more than 32% of their shots.

Well said