Scoring champs who were 1st Team All-Defense

[3ball]

Jordan: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Bryant: 2006, 2007
West:.. 1970


These seasons must be ranked in the top tier of best individual seasons ever because of their recognized, "best-in-the-league", two-way performance.

The only player that was ever scoring champ and DPOY in same season was MJ in 1988.. AND he was mvp that season.
.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Players in history who average at least 27ppg, 7rpg, 6.9apg for their career:

LeBron James.



^ GOAT

[ShaqTwizzle]

Jordan was not the real DPOY in 1998, Hakeem was.
Hakeem led a bunch of literal no-name scrubs to the 4th best defense.

Chicago's defense was 0.2 better then Houston's (3rd best) despite having a far better defensive cast around their best player.

Jordan had Pippen (a GOAT defender) in his youthful athletic prime and other great defenders like a young (22) Horace Grant and a (24) year old Oakley.

Hakeem with his 2.7 blocks and 2.1 steals per game was probably the real 1988 DPOY.

:kobe:

[3ball]

Players in history who average at least 27ppg, 7rpg, 6.9apg for their career:

LeBron James.

^ GOAT


Regular Season Stats:

JORDAN: 30.1 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.3 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 49.7 fg
LEBRON: 27.3 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 49.6 fg


Playoff Stats:

JORDAN: 33.4 ppg.. 1.7 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.7 apg.. 3.1 tov.. 2.1 spg.. 0.9 bpg.. 48.7 fg
LEBRON: 28.2 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.2 dreb.. 6.7 apg.. 3.5 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.9 bpg.. 47.3 fg


Finals Averages:

JORDAN: 33.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 4.4 dreb.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON: 26.4 ppg.. 1.8 oreb.. 7.8 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 3.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.5 bpg.. 44.6 fg


Categories Jordan wins: ppg, oreb, tov, spg, bpg, fg%
Categories Lebron wins: dreb, apg

Jordan's scoring advantage and clutch is preferable to 1-2 defensive rebounds from Lebron.. Jordan also provides an optimal playing style that fosters team chemistry.... and better defense, which is the topic of the thread.
.

[Gileraracer]

Even I, the bigges Lebron stan ever, have to admit that Jordan is clearly 1 tier above Lebron.

I don't know why there are still discussions about that after all those finals losses...

[knicksman]

seems like the top 2 GOATS. Goes to show that scoring>>>everything else

[StephHamann]

Player who are 7.8 from Europe were drafted by the Knicks and dunked over 3 people.

Porzingis

GOAT

[SouBeachTalents]

'09 Wade should have definitely been on this list too. Dude finished 3rd in DPOY voting that year

[3ball]

seems like the top 2 GOATS. Goes to show that scoring>>>everything else


Especially for #1 options.

Btw, if you look at the stats, Jordan averages almost the same assists as Lebron, with significantly less turnovers..

The only advantage Lebron has is 1-2 defensive rebounding edge, which doesn't compare to MJ's significant scoring edge, along with oreb, spg, bpg, tov, and efficiency... and of course, defense.

Also, the stats show MJ has a big edge in 4th quarter scoring.. Indeed, scoring > everything else, but scoring + clutch is FAR greater than everything else.

[3ball]

'09 Wade should have definitely been on this list too. Dude finished 3rd in DPOY voting that year


There's 2 or 3 guys like Wade who could be on the list..

But it looks like only Kobe and MJ did it more than once (MJ 9 times).

[SouBeachTalents]

There's 2 or 3 guys like Wade who could be on the list..

But it looks like only Kobe and MJ did it more than once (MJ 9 times).

Not really, maybe centers like Shaq, Robinson and Kareem, but no one else I could think of. And Wade as a defender in '09 > Kobe in '06 & '07

[Paul George 24]

Players in history who average at least 27ppg, 7rpg, 6.9apg for their career:

LeBron James.



^ GOAT
2/6 :lol

[Paul George 24]

Jordan was not the real DPOY in 1998, Hakeem was.
Hakeem led a bunch of literal no-name scrubs to the 4th best defense.

Chicago's defense was 0.2 better then Houston's (3rd best) despite having a far better defensive cast around their best player.

Jordan had Pippen (a GOAT defender) in his youthful athletic prime and other great defenders like a young (22) Horace Grant and a (24) year old Oakley.

Hakeem with his 2.7 blocks and 2.1 steals per game was probably the real 1988 DPOY.

:kobe:
jordan made pippen

[Paul George 24]

Not really, maybe centers like Shaq, Robinson and Kareem, but no one else I could think of. And Wade as a defender in '09 > Kobe in '06 & '07
lebron era has no hof big man and duncan is old :hammerhead:

[sdot_thadon]

Especially for #1 options.

Btw, if you look at the stats, Jordan averages almost the same assists as Lebron, with significantly less turnovers..
But I thought you said lebron has the ball like 1000% more of the time than Mj yet he only averages less than a turnover more.........

[sdot_thadon]

jordan made pippen
If he made pippen, why stop at just one. Why not use his vast powers of creation to make 2 or 6? 11?

[sportjames23]

Players in history who average 2/6:

LeBron James.



^ WOAT


Fix'd

[ShawkFactory]

If he made pippen, why stop at just one. Why not use his vast powers of creation to make 2 or 6? 11?
Because that would be a crude display of power.

[ralph_i_el]

Because that would be a crude display of power.

Yup, MJ was just holding back on his player creation powers. He could have turned Steve Kerr into Steve Kurry, and Dennis Rodman into Dennis Godman, but it wouldn't have been fair for the rest of the league. Plus, no one would have showed up to see the Bulls win every game 215-63

[ShawkFactory]

Yup, MJ was just holding back on his player creation powers. He could have turned Steve Kerr into Steve Kurry, and Dennis Rodman into Dennis Godman, but it wouldn't have been fair for the rest of the league. Plus, no one would have showed up to see the Bulls win every game 215-63
Let's just be clear though, he DID make Pippen. Despite being an all-American in college and being drafted 5th overall even though he played for central Arkansas, he would have been laying in a ditch somewhere if it weren't for Jordan.

But yea...Jordan couldn't get away with creating any more players like Pippen.

[ralph_i_el]

Let's just be clear though, he DID make Pippen. Despite being an all-American in college and being drafted 5th overall even though he played for central Arkansas, he would have been laying in a ditch somewhere if it weren't for Jordan.

But yea...Jordan couldn't get away with creating any more players like Pippen.

Damn! Too bad MJ couldn't make his own father!

[ShawkFactory]

Damn! Too bad MJ couldn't make his own father!
https://media.giphy.com/media/o8T8Gs3Ct4U5W/giphy.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

'09 Wade should have definitely been on this list too. Dude finished 3rd in DPOY voting that year
Totally agree.

That's why guys gushing over Curry's two week stretch while impressive is short sighted and full of hyperbole.

Guys like MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Wade and even briefly McGrady all had similar offensively dominant seasons while also bringing elite defensive consistency.

Dominant on both ends of the floor being feared. Curry while improved on that end, isn't even close to being on those guy's level.

[riseagainst]

Damn! Too bad MJ couldn't make his own father!

that's cold...

:lol

[ralph_i_el]

that's cold...

:lol

Shawk set it up, I could help myself
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-29-2015/uoDSix.gif

[3ball]

Guys like MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Wade and even briefly McGrady - they all had similar offensively dominant seasons while also bringing elite defensive consistency.



But not to the extent of Jordan, obviously - I don't see Lebron, Tmac, or Wade on this list:


Scoring champs who were 1st Team All-Defense

Jordan: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Bryant: 2006, 2007
West:.. 1970


MJ is clearly the best 2-way wing ever: 9 times as scoring champ with 1st team All-defense.. He's also the only player ever to be scoring champ and DPOY in same season (1988).. he was also mvp that season...

No other player is close to MJ's level of individual or team accolade.
.

[warriorfan]

Jordan: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Bryant: 2006, 2007
West:.. 1970


These seasons must be ranked in the top tier of best individual seasons ever because of their recognized, "best-in-the-league", two-way performance.

The only player that was ever scoring champ and DPOY in same season was MJ in 1988.. AND he was mvp that season.
.

What a list. True Basketball Greats. :applause:

[Young X]

1988 MJ might've been the greatest regular season ever.

[dontgetchoked]

Regular Season Stats:

JORDAN: 30.1 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 4.7 dreb.. 5.3 apg.. 2.7 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 49.7 fg
LEBRON: 27.3 ppg.. 1.2 oreb.. 5.9 dreb.. 6.9 apg.. 3.4 tov.. 1.7 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 49.6 fg

.
DAMN, thats even including his wizards years!

[Monta Ellis MVP]

DAMN, thats even including his wizards years!

Damn! Very impressive indeed.

[dhsilv]

Jordan: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Bryant: 2006, 2007
West:.. 1970


These seasons must be ranked in the top tier of best individual seasons ever because of their recognized, "best-in-the-league", two-way performance.

The only player that was ever scoring champ and DPOY in same season was MJ in 1988.. AND he was mvp that season.
.

Is being the scoring champ a good thing? If we take away MJ...who's actually had success as the scoring champ? MJ is a weird freak in so many ways.

[Smoke117]

Let's just be clear though, he DID make Pippen. Despite being an all-American in college and being drafted 5th overall even though he played for central Arkansas, he would have been laying in a ditch somewhere if it weren't for Jordan.

But yea...Jordan couldn't get away with creating any more players like Pippen.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AJBx8DUvhHI/UD3wZ7siBDI/AAAAAAAAAGU/Ph7JstFExwE/s1600/The+Wire+-+Bunk+Moreland+Shaking+Head.gif

[3ball]

Is being the scoring champ a good thing? If we take away MJ...who else has actually had success as the scoring champ? MJ is a weird freak in so many ways.



No one else scored as much as MJ... as efficiently as MJ.

Look at the playoff per 100 stats of various wings below - it's clear that MJ did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts


Plus he provided superior, smarter, and more relentless defense.

[Hey Yo]

Jordan: 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Bryant: 2006, 2007
West:.. 1970


These seasons must be ranked in the top tier of best individual seasons ever because of their recognized, "best-in-the-league", two-way performance.

The only player that was ever scoring champ and DPOY in same season was MJ in 1988.. AND he was mvp that season.
.
Those last 3 seasons don't count due to MJ quitting in his prime to get freshened up.

Kobe and West probably would have more if they took the MJ route.

[dhsilv]

No one else scored as much as MJ... as efficiently as MJ.

Look at the playoff per 100 stats of various wings below - it's clear that MJ did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts


Plus he provided superior, smarter, and more relentless defense.

Durant is an all time great scoring champ, but what the hell are Lebron and Wade doing there? Wade's never even won one. Lebron is not a great scorer. Kobe only won the scoring title twice.

Michael Jordan*
Wilt Chamberlain*
Kevin Durant
Allen Iverson
Adrian Dantley*
George Gervin*
Bob McAdoo*
Neil Johnston*
George Mikan*

Those are the guys who've won 3 or more scoring titles.

Crap just realized I didn't check for min games played when I pulled this, but the point stands. You listed a lot of guys who aren't the great scoring champs so it's a silly set of data you posted for no logical reason.

[GIF REACTION]

Illegal defense tho

[3ball]

Per 100 Possession stats in playoffs


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts




What the hell are Lebron and Wade doing there? Wade's never even won one. Lebron is not a great scorer. Kobe only won the scoring title twice.

You listed a lot of guys who aren't the great scoring champs so it's a silly set of data you posted for no logical reason.


Per 100 possession stats account for differences in pace and playing time - it's the cleanest way to look at boxscore data..

The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency..

Essentially, Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.

[GIF REACTION]

Jordan takes 5.7 Field goals per 100 possessions which proves he limits his teams total offensive possessions!

[3ball]

Per 100 Possession stats in playoffs


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts




Jordan takes 5.7 Field goals per 100 possessions which proves he limits his teams total offensive possessions!


The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency.

Essentially, Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.

For instance, Lebron or Kobe would LIKE to average 8 more points at the same efficiency, but they can't... Only MJ can score that much while maintaining the same efficiency standard.
.

[3ball]

Defenses are different


We have a stat that measures how hard it is to score.. It's called league-wide offensive rating (ORtg) and it's been stable for 30 years.. It's ranged between 105 and 108 since 1980, excluding a brief downswing from 1998-2004.. The minor shifts within that 105-108 range are due to style of play differences between the eras that affect inputs to the ORtg calculation, such as offensive rebounding rate and FT rate.

30 years of stable ORtg proves the difficulty of scoring hasn't changed, and the changes in offensive strategy (spacing) and defensive strategy (extra rotations) are offsetting - you either have extra rotations required by spacing and defensive 3 seconds (today's game), or the rotations aren't necessary because there is no spacing or defensive 3 seconds (previous eras).
.

[fpliii]

http://i63.tinypic.com/30w8pb5.jpg

[3ball]

Illegal defense tho


There's only minor differences between today's defense and previous eras:


1) Today's defenses can double-team a player who doesn't have the ball, like on the post..


But in previous eras, the lack of spacing meant other players were standing just a couple feet away, so doubling ahead of time wasn't necessary.. When spacing doesn't exist and help defense is much closer, a team is better off NOT compromising their defense by doubling early and leaving someone wide open.. The lack of spacing and resulting closer proximity of help defense made previous eras better-equipped to handle a post player (or any player) that had the ball.


2) Today's defenses can "flood"..


But the flooding tactic merely attempts to make the concentration of strongside defenders equivalent to the un-spaced courts of previous eras.. Also, here's a concise, 4-sentence (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11647538&postcount=15) comparison of today's flooding to previous era paint-camping.


Otoh, there are things today's defenses can no longer do - they can't get away with double teaming as easily due to spacing, and defenders can't sag off 3-point shooters (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11710410&postcount=19) as much, paint-camp (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11606624&postcount=406), or hand-check (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).

[Dr Hawk]

http://i63.tinypic.com/30w8pb5.jpg

Nice pic

[Wade's Rings]

Durant is an all time great scoring champ, but what the hell are Lebron and Wade doing there? Wade's never even won one. Lebron is not a great scorer. Kobe only won the scoring title twice.

Michael Jordan*
Wilt Chamberlain*
Kevin Durant
Allen Iverson
Adrian Dantley*
George Gervin*
Bob McAdoo*
Neil Johnston*
George Mikan*

Those are the guys who've won 3 or more scoring titles.

Crap just realized I didn't check for min games played when I pulled this, but the point stands. You listed a lot of guys who aren't the great scoring champs so it's a silly set of data you posted for no logical reason.

Wade won the scoring Title in '09 putting up 30 pts on 49% shooting.

[ShawkFactory]

No one else scored as much as MJ... as efficiently as MJ.

Look at the playoff per 100 stats of various wings below - it's clear that MJ did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. His efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more at that efficiency:


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts


Plus he provided superior, smarter, and more relentless defense.
Why do you use these stats so much to claim Jordan's superiority?

They also clearly show that Lebron is superior to Kobe, which you argue against.

Another case of the double standies and evidence that you yourself invalidate.

[ShawkFactory]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AJBx8DUvhHI/UD3wZ7siBDI/AAAAAAAAAGU/Ph7JstFExwE/s1600/The+Wire+-+Bunk+Moreland+Shaking+Head.gif
STRONG sarcasm my friend.

[stalkerforlife]

http://lakerholicz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/alg-kobe-celebration-jpg.jpg

[3ball]

Per 100 Possession stats in playoffs


JORDAN:. 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts
LEBRON:. 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts
DURANT:. 35.8 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts
KOBE:..... 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts
WADE:.... 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts




Why do you use these stats so much to claim Jordan's superiority?


The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency.

Obviously, Lebron or Kobe would LIKE to average 8 more points at the same efficiency - but they can't... Only MJ can score that much while maintaining the same efficiency standard.

Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.

[ShawkFactory]

The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency.

Obviously, Lebron or Kobe would LIKE to average 8 more points at the same efficiency - but they can't... Only MJ can score that much while maintaining the same efficiency standard.

Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.
Should I just copy and paste what I said again? Because you didn't address it :lol

Invalid evidence is invalid. Have a nice day.

[3ball]

Because you didn't address it


You asked me why I use those stats and I answered your question DIRECTLY, HEAD-ON:



The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency.

Obviously, Lebron or Kobe would LIKE to average 8 more points at the same efficiency - but they can't... Only MJ can score that much while maintaining the same efficiency standard.

Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.


So you have no right to complain - the answer above directly answers your question of why I use those stats.

[ShawkFactory]

You asked me why I use those stats and I answered your question DIRECTLY, HEAD-ON:



The per 100 stats show that MJ's efficiency was the same as other wings, but he simply produced far more AT that efficiency.

Obviously, Lebron or Kobe would LIKE to average 8 more points at the same efficiency - but they can't... Only MJ can score that much while maintaining the same efficiency standard.

Jordan did exactly what the other wings did, but just MORE OF IT.. So take any one of those wing players, and imagine them DOING MORE... That's MJ.

So you have no right to complain - the answer above directly answers your question of why I use those stats.
OK...since you're choosing to be dense and annoying...

Why do you use those stats even though they blatantly contradict something you've argued in the past?

[3ball]

OK...since you're choosing to be dense and annoying...

Why do you use those stats even though they blatantly contradict something you've argued in the past?
There's only a small gap between Lebron and Kobe statistically, and we know Kobe played a better brand of basketball that fostered better team chemistry.

Otoh, there's a huge gap between MJ and the rest of the field, AND we know he played the best brand of basketball and fostered the best team chemistry.