why are the Warriors considered stacked?

[orange_chicken]

Why are the Warriors considered stacked by some posters in ISH? Are they really stacked? Or do they just play good basketball? Doesn't stacked means a team consisting of multiple all-stars like Wade, Bron, Bosh, and Allen in Miami or say Magic's 80s Lakers? Or are the Warriors just getting hate from other fans?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Cause stans of a certain player that turned the ball over 6 times in overtime to lose to the BUCKS :oldlol: are scuuuured AF of player of the decade who is torch bearer :banana:

[warriorfan]

Myself and some other knowledgeable posters have proven that Steph Curry plays with all role players in the past few weeks.

[knicksman]

its just an excuse by bran stans coz their boy constantly reduce teammates production

[FKAri]

Because they have guys that can do everything. There is no weakness. You can't double Curry when the pass out of the double can go to guys who can make great decisions themselves and are surrounded by great shooters. If Curry has an off game, the team doesn't fall apart.

[J Shuttlesworth]

People forget how good the Warriors defense is, and it's not all because of Curry. He's very much the weak point of their defense. They were #1 defense in the league last year. They have 2 all stars and incredibly solid role players with a very deep bench. They have a bunch of different guys who can create. Top heavy isn't the only type of "stacked" but what does it matter anyway? There are like 5 teams in the league that can qualify as "stacked" based on ISH standards.

[Lebronxrings]

da fuq? :biggums:


Draymond green top 3 pf, got triple double and best defender.
Iggy clutch shooter, great defender
barnes- good shooter, good defender, all around great
klay- top 3 sg, can do it all.
bogut- top defensive anchor

i could go on and on. Yes their system should be given credit and greatly improves the players, but this team is the most stacked in the league by far.

[RRR3]

I'm not sure I'd call them stacked, but they don't really have any weaknesses and they play great as a team. They also have superb depth and their bench does really well most of the time. The only truly great player they have is Curry obviously, but Klay is a very good all-star level player, and Green is very valuable as well. Then Iggy is a great 6th man, and they have a lot of other good pieces.

[dhsilv]

I'll issue a challenge to the board.

Find me another team with 8 guys who played 500 or more minutes with a PER over 15 in a season.

The team is loaded with top 20 nba players. Just Curry and Green would be in that group, but this team is loaded with depth and adaptable talent.

[FKAri]

I'll issue a challenge to the board.

Find me another team with 8 guys who played 500 or more minutes with a PER over 15 in a season.

The team is loaded with top 20 nba players. Just Curry and Green would be in that group, but this team is loaded with depth and adaptable talent.

and those guys are even better on D than they are on O

[dhsilv]

and those guys are even better on D than they are on O

Well using 15 as anyone above is good, I don't know if I'd agree there. Speights had a 19.5 PER which makes no sense at all to me, david lee was meh, mcadoo?, and even barbosa. Just trying to post this before someone goes and attacks a few guys in the group.

OH and Barnes and Iguodala were NOT on that list of 15+ PERs just to add color to how deep this team is. Also guys under valued by PER at least Iggy. I think Barns is better than PER says as well.

[Kblaze8855]

They are the latest example of a team with immense chemistry and great coaching having its players individually credited with more ability than they have. They are hardly a team full of stars. Its one star a really great #2 and some good players. Its not a team that piece by piece would be labeled stacked compared to the historic teams that get that talk.

Way more Webbers kings than Showtime Lakers.

Webber and Curry as the stars. Peja on a similar level to Klay though a different type of player defense considered. Vlade was an all star....Christie all D first team do it all guy like Iggy...Bibby was a solid clutch point who was a 20/7 player once all that talent was elsewhere..Bobby Jackson was 6th man of the year. They even had future not quite stars in Hedo and Wallace stuck to the bench which is often a sign of a great team....nowhere to get minutes for promising young players. Great coach. Great small but passionate fanbase vibe. Crazy ball movement and a godly talent leading them....

Great teams. But the 70s Knicks, Birds Celtics, Showtime lakers, 83 76ers and so on will always come up first in terms of historical talent on a roster....and then you have the likes of the Suns with Nash, Amare, Marion, and Joe Johnson. The Heat teams once they had a complete roster(id say 12 and maybe 13 when wade was healthy) And for that matter...just talent?

Nash
Dirk
Finley
Antione Walker
Jamison

5 players you could say were on the same level they were as all stars.

The warriors arent that kinda team that just rolls talent in a ball and throws it at you.

They have one superstar and a good supporting cast. From a talent standpoint im not sure its any more than that.

If you call Drexlers Blazers a really stacked team....ok.

If we arent talking a historic standard.

The Cavs if they ever get healthy would be closer to what people generally mean when talking stacked teams. 3 players who would be a story of their own even placed on a bad team with a solid lineup behind it.

The Clippers might be too. 2 legit superstars....and what? 4 really good players? Maybe 6?

If you are sold on Klay being a real star elsewhere and Green being something to talk about on the Magic or the Celtics...ok. Im not sure im there.

If Green is being held back more than I know....I suspect it will come to light.

Ask again when we know for sure.

[90sgoat]

Because they have starter level players on the bench on almost every position. Bogut is a clear starter and all defensive player, Shaun Livingston is easily a starter, though in the lower half of players, Andre Igoudala is clearly starter material. All around just strong players.

[DoctorP]

mmm... orange chicken.

[outbreak]

Their a deep team and they are perfectly built for the offence they run. They have guys at every position that would start on a lot of teams in the league even coming off their bench. Not stacked in the sense of having 2-3 elite players then role players, stacked in the sense that they have just a consistent high level of players around one star. Doesn't make Curry any worse of a player but for some reason there's some low IQ idiots here who think it does so have to post ridiculous claims to make his team mates look bad.

[Dr Hawk]

Myself and some other knowledgeable posters have proven that Steph Curry plays with all role players in the past few weeks.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/200.gif

[outbreak]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/200.gif

But what has the space program ever given to humanity?

:roll:

[Gus Hemmingway]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/200.gif
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[warriorfan]

People forget how good the Warriors defense is, and it's not all because of Curry. He's very much the weak point of their defense. They were #1 defense in the league last year. They have 2 all stars and incredibly solid role players with a very deep bench. They have a bunch of different guys who can create. Top heavy isn't the only type of "stacked" but what does it matter anyway? There are like 5 teams in the league that can qualify as "stacked" based on ISH standards.

You aren't good at thinking are you.

The Warriors great defense is ALL because of Curry.

Curry's offense is so good that it allows the Warriors to have a top rated offensive team while utilizing defensive minded players.


If you are able to stack a team with defensive minded role players and then insert Curry to give them the best Offense in the league, then the team's defense IS all about Curry, the system would not work with out him.

[warriorfan]

They are the latest example of a team with immense chemistry and great coaching having its players individually credited with more ability than they have. They are hardly a team full of stars. Its one star a really great #2 and some good players. Its not a team that piece by piece would be labeled stacked compared to the historic teams that get that talk.

Way more Webbers kings than Showtime Lakers.

Webber and Curry as the stars. Peja on a similar level to Klay though a different type of player defense considered. Vlade was an all star....Christie all D first team do it all guy like Iggy...Bibby was a solid clutch point who was a 20/7 player once all that talent was elsewhere..Bobby Jackson was 6th man of the year. They even had future not quite stars in Hedo and Wallace stuck to the bench which is often a sign of a great team....nowhere to get minutes for promising young players. Great coach. Great small but passionate fanbase vibe. Crazy ball movement and a godly talent leading them....

Great teams. But the 70s Knicks, Birds Celtics, Showtime lakers, 83 76ers and so on will always come up first in terms of historical talent on a roster....and then you have the likes of the Suns with Nash, Amare, Marion, and Joe Johnson. The Heat teams once they had a complete roster(id say 12 and maybe 13 when wade was healthy) And for that matter...just talent?

Nash
Dirk
Finley
Antione Walker
Jamison

5 players you could say were on the same level they were as all stars.

The warriors arent that kinda team that just rolls talent in a ball and throws it at you.

They have one superstar and a good supporting cast. From a talent standpoint im not sure its any more than that.

If you call Drexlers Blazers a really stacked team....ok.

If we arent talking a historic standard.

The Cavs if they ever get healthy would be closer to what people generally mean when talking stacked teams. 3 players who would be a story of their own even placed on a bad team with a solid lineup behind it.

The Clippers might be too. 2 legit superstars....and what? 4 really good players? Maybe 6?

If you are sold on Klay being a real star elsewhere and Green being something to talk about on the Magic or the Celtics...ok. Im not sure im there.

If Green is being held back more than I know....I suspect it will come to light.

Ask again when we know for sure.

Quality post :applause:

[Indian guy]

They have an amazing #1 option, ridiculous depth(10 deep) and are second only to SA when it comes to playing together as a team. The latter is what truly separates them from everybody else in the NBA. But we tend to judge a team's stacked-ness by how good their top-end talent is, and that's where GS underwhelms. This is all about Klay Thompson, really. Teams as successful as GS have been the last 2 years tend to have far better #2 options.

[bdreason]

Warriors are stacked. We have the MVP, the true DPotY, the 2nd best SG in the league, and arguably the best 6th man in the league.

What we don't have is overrated offensive players that only play one side of the ball.

[DMAVS41]

They have an amazing #1 option, ridiculous depth(10 deep) and are second only to SA when it comes to playing together as a team. The latter is what truly separates them from everybody else in the NBA. But we tend to judge a team's stacked-ness by how good their top-end talent is, and that's where GS underwhelms. This is all about Klay Thompson, really. Teams as successful as GS have been the last 2 years tend to have far better #2 options.

It's also about how talent fits together....and what role players are capable of playing. Many of the Warriors players can really impact the game on both ends...even without the ball in their hands.

The reason why a team like those Mavs was nowhere as good...was because there weren't any two way players and all of those guys needed the ball in their hands to be impactful...

Not sure why that team is even brought up. They were elite offensively (#1 ranked offense) and terrible defensively. Did anyone expect differently of that team not playing a center and having terrible defenders all playing big minutes?

That Mavs team was unreal good offensively though...so again...it really shouldn't be brought up. And that was back in a much tougher era. They had the best ortg in the league at 112.1...only one other team was over 107.4 in the league that year. Last year, 11 teams had over a 107.4 ortg.

The difference was defense...

Now, you trade out Jamison, Walker, and Finley for Bogut, Klay, and Green and that team gets infinitely better.

This should be obvious, but apparently it isn't...

[DMAVS41]

Warriors are stacked. We have the MVP, the true DPotY, the 2nd best SG in the league, and arguably the best 6th man in the league.

What we don't have is overrated offensive players that only play one side of the ball.

Bingo.

Putting James Harden on this team instead of Klay would make them demonstrably worse.

They'd be far more "talented", but much worse.

Not sure why people can't figure this out...but it's not surprising as franchises build some of the most idiotic teams possible some times.

[WorldWarriors]

Because they have starter level players on the bench on almost every position. Bogut is a clear starter and all defensive player, Shaun Livingston is easily a starter, though in the lower half of players, Andre Igoudala is clearly starter material. All around just strong players.
Iggy is the only true starter level player coming off the bench. We have Barbosa past his prime who came off the bench for Phoenix for years. Then there's Livingston who by God's grace is even playing in the league. Then there's Speights who is not a starter anywhere. Ezeli could start but his skills are limited.

[NZStreetBaller]

Let me simplify this.... its beacuase theyre winning.

[outbreak]

Bingo.

Putting James Harden on this team instead of Klay would make them demonstrably worse.

They'd be far more "talented", but much worse.

Not sure why people can't figure this out...but it's not surprising as franchises build some of the most idiotic teams possible some times.

People always struggle with this concept here it seems. Just because a team is loaded with talent doesn't mean it's necessarily a better team than a team that's built with players who compliment each other and fill up the weaknesses in their go to guys.

[DMAVS41]

People always struggle with this concept here it seems. Just because a team is loaded with talent doesn't mean it's necessarily a better team than a team that's built with players who compliment each other and fill up the weaknesses in their go to guys.

Right...that is why I had to laugh at the 04 Mavs being brought up. I'd get it if that team wasn't elite offensively, but that team was the best offensive team in the league...and really separated itself in that area from the entire league save one other team.

On the flip side...is anyone surprised that team was one of the worst defensive teams?

Talent matters, but it also matters how that talent fits.

I don't care about the semantics of "stacked"...I actually have no issue with someone calling the 04 Mavs "stacked"...as long as they are willing to grasp that the team won't be that good because of the type of fit and talent they put together.

[knicksman]

because of curry. Curry can play off the ball so he can co exists with passers like dray. Curry spaces the floor so he could coexist with bigmen. Curry doesnt play defense so he could coexist with iguodala. He doesnt rebound so he could coexist with a rebounder. If he was a statpadder like bran, players would have low morale coz they felt worthless. Thats why iverson, oscar, wilt, bran have one thing in common, the Ls and the excuses that their teams are shit when in reality, they are cancers whom players doesnt want to play with.

[juju151111]

You aren't good at thinking are you.

The Warriors great defense is ALL because of Curry.

Curry's offense is so good that it allows the Warriors to have a top rated offensive team while utilizing defensive minded players.


If you are able to stack a team with defensive minded role players and then insert Curry to give them the best Offense in the league, then the team's defense IS all about Curry, the system would not work with out him.
Warriors defense isn't because of Curry. Curry isn't a bad defenders through.

[ralph_i_el]

They have an MVP level player, 2 all star level players who are both really just super role players (Thompson is a 3/D wing, Draymond is a defensive specialist and a facilitating big). They have guys who can shoot on the court at all times, and they're well coached.

They may not be stacked in terms of individual talent, but they mesh efficiently. Part of the reason for this is that their second and third best players don't need to handle the ball a lot to be effective. They exploit the space created by playing 3/4 shooters at the same time to get easy buckets in the paint.


Also, they're sick on D because they have 2/3/4 men who can switch often. They have good individual defenders, a great scheme, and are versatile enough that teams have a hard time finding mismatches.

The last year and a half has featured the Warriors averaging top-10 all time point differential and SRS.

[STATUTORY]

ego defense by bran stans

[Crimsonrain777]

They are the latest example of a team with immense chemistry and great coaching having its players individually credited with more ability than they have. They are hardly a team full of stars. Its one star a really great #2 and some good players. Its not a team that piece by piece would be labeled stacked compared to the historic teams that get that talk.

Way more Webbers kings than Showtime Lakers.

Webber and Curry as the stars. Peja on a similar level to Klay though a different type of player defense considered. Vlade was an all star....Christie all D first team do it all guy like Iggy...Bibby was a solid clutch point who was a 20/7 player once all that talent was elsewhere..Bobby Jackson was 6th man of the year. They even had future not quite stars in Hedo and Wallace stuck to the bench which is often a sign of a great team....nowhere to get minutes for promising young players. Great coach. Great small but passionate fanbase vibe. Crazy ball movement and a godly talent leading them....

Great teams. But the 70s Knicks, Birds Celtics, Showtime lakers, 83 76ers and so on will always come up first in terms of historical talent on a roster....and then you have the likes of the Suns with Nash, Amare, Marion, and Joe Johnson. The Heat teams once they had a complete roster(id say 12 and maybe 13 when wade was healthy) And for that matter...just talent?

Nash
Dirk
Finley
Antione Walker
Jamison

5 players you could say were on the same level they were as all stars.

The warriors arent that kinda team that just rolls talent in a ball and throws it at you.

They have one superstar and a good supporting cast. From a talent standpoint im not sure its any more than that.

If you call Drexlers Blazers a really stacked team....ok.

If we arent talking a historic standard.

The Cavs if they ever get healthy would be closer to what people generally mean when talking stacked teams. 3 players who would be a story of their own even placed on a bad team with a solid lineup behind it.

The Clippers might be too. 2 legit superstars....and what? 4 really good players? Maybe 6?

If you are sold on Klay being a real star elsewhere and Green being something to talk about on the Magic or the Celtics...ok. Im not sure im there.

If Green is being held back more than I know....I suspect it will come to light.

Ask again when we know for sure.

well, Kblaze just put it into words that i wish i couldve. The whole of this Warriors team is greater than the sum of their parts

[Gileraracer]

Cause we, the Lebron stans, hate Curry and we'll do anything to discredit him

[greatest-ever]

I don't get how anyone can watch them and think they aren't. Being "stacked" ain't all about multiple superstars, for example the 2014 Spurs were arguably the best Spurs team of all time despite not having a top 10 player that year, and they were dominant all year long.

The Warriors have Curry a legit superstar who's having an unreal season, a legit 2nd scoring option to go with him in Klay, a versatile elite defender in Green who can also pass at a high level, a defensive center, depth etc etc.

[Smoke117]

Probably because they are by far the most talented team in the league 1-12? *gasp*

[iamgine]

Talent wise they are quite stacked. May not be the most stacked, but they have great chemistry and fit so they can overcome a more stacked team.

[Clifton]

I have a hard time thinking of these Warriors players as individuals. I'm serious.

If they're "stacked," that usually means several individual players would be superstars anywhere else, but they have to contain themselves and play as a unit within a system.

I don't see that here.

But I don't think much about it. When Roger Mason Jr. and Gary Neal were on the Spurs and would have 20, 30 point nights, and shoot nearly 50% from 3 for months on end... it never occurred to me what those players were as individuals. They were part of an amazing machine.

The Warriors are an amazing machine. I think these players get the sense that their talents would mean much less anywhere else than they do in Golden State.

I don't know if GS has a player who has ambitions to ever leave. Harrison Barnes might be able to hang 20 a night elsewhere, but I think he's happier hitting wide open 3s off Curry passes and winning championships. He's just posturing for a bigger paycheck.

[Blue&Orange]

They are far from stacked. It's a bunch or good role players that really complement well each other.

[DMAVS41]

They are far from stacked. It's a bunch or good role players that really complement well each other.

I think this is under-rating the individual abilities of Bogut, Iggy, Klay, and Green a bit.

Green and Klay bring skills to the game that make them top 20 or so players in the league. This has very little to do with chemistry or fit. Teams across the league would be dying to have a very good defensive sg that happens to be one of the best shooters in the league...doesn't need the ball to make a huge impact on offense...and despite his slow start...is capable of going off.

Green is one of the best defensive players in the league. Again...this is his basketball ability. He's a good shooter, good screen setter, very good passer, and excellent and versatile defender.

What more do you want out of a player like Iggy? He's proved he can score in the high teens throughout his career when needed to go along with his great all around game. He's close to the perfect 6th man on virtually every team in the league. Doesn't need the ball...not a great shooter by any means...but good enough that you can't leave him.

Superstars? Hell no, but Klay and Green are borderline all nba players and Iggy is definitely in the running for best 6th man.

The semantics of calling Klay and Green role players really doesn't interest me. It's fine if we call them role players...just realize they are top 20 type players and all nba type players that can hugely impact the game without the ball in their hands.

Carmelo isn't known as a "role player", but this team would be way worse with Melo over Klay, Green, or Iggy...

[JT123]

They are far from stacked. It's a bunch or good role players that really complement well each other.
No wonder your posts always sound so retarded, you have dyslexia. :lol

[Pointguard]

Iggy the sixth man, won FMVP.

And what Kblaze said.

[Pointguard]

Depending on the matchup, you sometimes won't even see Bogut play. And most teams, don't have a center that is as good as him.

[DMAVS41]

Depending on the matchup, you sometimes won't even see Bogut play. And most teams, don't have a center that is as good as him.

Very good point. Quite the luxury to have a team capable of doing that...

I'm interested...where would you rank Klay and Green in the league as players?

[warriorfan]

Bogut doesn't play sometimes because of health issues. It's hard for 31 year old 7' + guys to log huge minutes every night.

[DMAVS41]

Bogut doesn't play sometimes because of health issues. It's hard for 31 year old 7' + guys to log huge minutes every night.

The point isn't why he doesn't play at times...it's about the luxury the team has for making up his absence with ease.

This is where I think Green has so much value defensively and seems to be getting under-rated on his abilities as a player.

[warriorfan]

Andrew Bogut = Role Player, scored 6 points per game last season
Andre Iguodala = Role Player, 13 points per game for his career, 33% career 3 point shooter
Harrison Barnes = Role Player, career average 10 points per game, 1 assist, .530 TS%
Draymond Green = Role Player, drafted 2nd round, 35th overall, Carreer average 7 points a game, 33% career 3 point shooter
Festus Ezeli = Role Player, drafted 30th overall, career average of 3.6 points a game and 13 minutes per game
Klay Thompson = 3&D Role Player, scored 15 points 1 rebound on .500% TS in the finals. Disappears often and may have Autism.
Leandro Barbosa = Lower end Role Player, 33 years old and career average of 11 points and 2 assists per game
Shawn Livingston = Lower end Role Player suffering from being somewhat crippled. Career average of a whopping 6.8 points per game.
Mo Speights = Role Player with a career average of 7.2 points per game

[DMAVS41]

Andrew Bogut = Role Player, scored 6 points per game last season
Andre Iguodala = Role Player, 13 points per game for his career, 33% career 3 point shooter
Harrison Barnes = Role Player, career average 10 points per game, 1 assist, .530 TS%
Draymond Green = Role Player, drafted 2nd round, 35th overall, Carreer average 7 points a game, 33% career 3 point shooter
Festus Ezeli = Role Player, drafted 30th overall, career average of 3.6 points a game and 13 minutes per game
Klay Thompson = 3&D Role Player, scored 15 points 1 rebound on .500% TS in the finals. Disappears often and may have Autism.
Leandro Barbosa = Lower end Role Player, 33 years old and career average of 11 points and 2 assists per game
Shawn Livingston = Lower end Role Player suffering from being somewhat crippled. Career average of a whopping 6.8 points per game.
Mo Speights = Role Player with a career average of 7.2 points per game


Calling players "role players" means nothing. You get that...right?

I don't know how many times this needs to be said.

Also, why are you using career averages for some guys? I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you really think categorizing Green with heavy influence on his first 2 years compared to last year and this year is fair? Especially when the team in question is last year and this year...not the Warriors from 3 years ago.

Also not sure why you bring up draft position. LOL...this team has a 1st pick, 4th pick, 7th pick, 7th pick, 9th pick, 11th pick...6 players picked in the top 11 of their drafts. Are you serious with this crap?

So, was ESPN and many other people around the game just insane for putting Green and Klay in the top 20 players this year?

Where do you rank them?

[Pointguard]

Very good point. Quite the luxury to have a team capable of doing that...

I'm interested...where would you rank Klay and Green in the league as players?
Not too many good shooting guards either. Before the playoffs I thought Klay was one of the best or top three SG. I wasn't that impressed with him in the playoffs or this year so far. I give him big ups because he knows how to step back and let Curry shine.

Green is the strangest guy in the league to me. He's both forward spots and he's not really either one. At one moment a bigger on fire Lance Stephenson the next moment he hits a shot and you realize he's the 5th Warrior on the court. Will get the big stop or the good quiet pass when they're needed but much of what he does I don't expect it for some reason. I would hate him as an opponent because he gets the play that kills you or if your team falls asleep in some way. He's a good player on a great team but I could see him as a bad player on a bad team just as easy.

[Young X]

Andrew Bogut = Role Player, scored 6 points per game last season
Andre Iguodala = Role Player, 13 points per game for his career, 33% career 3 point shooter
Harrison Barnes = Role Player, career average 10 points per game, 1 assist, .530 TS%
Draymond Green = Role Player, drafted 2nd round, 35th overall, Carreer average 7 points a game, 33% career 3 point shooter
Festus Ezeli = Role Player, drafted 30th overall, career average of 3.6 points a game and 13 minutes per game
Klay Thompson = 3&D Role Player, scored 15 points 1 rebound on .500% TS in the finals. Disappears often and may have Autism.
Leandro Barbosa = Lower end Role Player, 33 years old and career average of 11 points and 2 assists per game
Shawn Livingston = Lower end Role Player suffering from being somewhat crippled. Career average of a whopping 6.8 points per game.
Mo Speights = Role Player with a career average of 7.2 points per gameNo mention of defense anywhere in this post.

This is what casual fans can't understand. It's not just about offensive talent and big names. Team defense is the most important aspect of a championship team.

What separated the Warriors from the other elite teams was the fact that they were the #1 defense. They have 4 legit All-NBA caliber defenders + other solid defenders. I can't think of another team with this level of defensive talent since the mid 90's Knicks.

[DMAVS41]

Not too many good shooting guards either. Before the playoffs I thought Klay was one of the best or top three SG. I wasn't that impressed with him in the playoffs or this year so far. I give him big ups because he knows how to step back and let Curry shine.

Green is the strangest guy in the league to me. He's both forward spots and he's not really either one. At one moment a bigger on fire Lance Stephenson the next moment he hits a shot and you realize he's the 5th Warrior on the court. Will get the big stop or the good quiet pass when they're needed but much of what he does I don't expect it for some reason. I would hate him as an opponent because he gets the play that kills you or if your team falls asleep in some way. He's a good player on a great team but I could see him as a bad player on a bad team just as easy.

Wait...what?

You think Draymond Green would be a bad player?

That could only happen if he stopped trying...he's legit one of the best defenders in the game.

[warriorfan]

Calling players "role players" means nothing. You get that...right?

I don't know how many times this needs to be said.

Also, why are you using career averages for some guys? I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but do you really think categorizing Green with heavy influence on his first 2 years compared to last year and this year is fair? Especially when the team in question is last year and this year...not the Warriors from 3 years ago.

So, was ESPN and many other people around the game just insane for putting Green and Klay in the top 20 players this year?

Where do you rank them?

career averages are a better indicator on how good the player has been for his whole career, not how he all of a sudden started overperforming because he is playing in Curry's Golden State system.

A players stats while playing with Steph Curry are not a good indicator of their true skill level. It has been proven that Steph Curry boosts the stats of his teammates. The true level of the players play should be examined in the time where they did not have the gross benefit of playing with Steph Curry. We are isolating stats before the Curry Factor to determine true levels of skill. It's scientific.

[warriorfan]

No mention of defense anywhere in this post.

This is what casual fans can't understand. It's not just about offensive talent and big names. Team defense is the most important aspect of a championship team.

What separated the Warriors from the other elite teams was the fact that they were the #1 defense. They have 4 legit All-NBA caliber defenders + other solid defenders. I can't think of another team with this level of defensive talent since the mid 90's Knicks.

Set defense aside for one moment please.

How do Warriors have a Top Rated Offense with these Offensive Shit Bags? :confusedshrug:

[Mr. Jabbar]

career averages are a better indicator on how good the player has been for his whole career, not how he all of a sudden started overperforming because he is playing in Curry's Golden State system.

A players stats while playing with Steph Curry are not a good indicator of their true skill level. It has been proven that Steph Curry boosts the stats of his teammates. The true level of the players play should be examined in the time where they did not have the gross benefit of playing with Steph Curry. We are isolating stats before the Curry Factor to determine true levels of skill. It's scientific.

warriorfan taking guys all the way to school

[DMAVS41]

career averages are a better indicator on how good the player has been for his whole career, not how he all of a sudden started overperforming because he is playing in Curry's Golden State system.

A players stats while playing with Steph Curry are not a good indicator of their true skill level. It has been proven that Steph Curry boosts the stats of his teammates. The true level of the players play should be examined in the time where they did not have the gross benefit of playing with Steph Curry. We are isolating stats before the Curry Factor to determine true levels of skill. It's scientific.


All superstars will boost the stats of their players, but you thinking that my argument is stat based is your first problem.

And just no...Green's career stats are not indicative of his level of play last year and this year. Just an absurd argument...now I know you aren't interested in a real conversation.

Green played ****ing 13 minutes a game his first year...and of course he's vastly improved his game from then to now. Are you really arguing that players don't greatly improve from their first 2 years? It almost always takes 2 full years for a player to develop...often longer.

You can't actually believe the shit you type.

[DMAVS41]

Set defense aside for one moment please.

How do Warriors have a Top Rated Offense with these Offensive Shit Bags? :confusedshrug:

:facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

All superstars will boost the stats of their players

not really :lol

:lebroncry:

[warriorfan]

All superstars will boost the stats of their players.


3ball can you get in here please? You have just been called.

[DMAVS41]

not really :lol

:lebroncry:


On a team like the Warriors? Yea...the really would...or at least in the most important areas like efficiency and impact.

You put Lebron, Wade, Bosh together...it becomes impossible.

Just like if you put Curry, Kobe, and Love together....it would be impossible.

This really has to be said?

[warriorfan]

:oldlol: at Curry haters not being able to explain how Steph Curry leads these misfits to the best offense in the league.

They don't even want none.

[ShawkFactory]

On a team like the Warriors? Yea...the really would...or at least in the most important areas like efficiency and impact.

You put Lebron, Wade, Bosh together...it becomes impossible.

Just like if you put Curry, Kobe, and Love together....it would be impossible.

This really has to be said?
Apparently so. It's amazing really.

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol: at Curry haters not being able to explain how Steph Curry leads these misfits to the best offense in the league.

They don't even want none.

Are you calling me a Curry hater? Someone that has said he very well might go down as the 2nd best pg ever...while saying if he kept up this level for a handful more years he'd challenge Magic?

That is a Curry hater? :no:

How do the Warriors have an elite offense?

Easy...Curry is a transcendent offensive player that impacts the game hugely both on and off the ball and puts his teammates into great spots...combined with them having excellent shooting at pretty much every position if need be...with big men that can pass extremely well within the system.

[warriorfan]

Apparently so. It's amazing really.

Yeah it's not LeBron's fault for lowering his teammates statistics, it's the team's fault for stacking LeBron's team with TOO MANY SUPERSTARS!


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Yeah it's not LeBron's fault for lowering his teammates statistics, it's the team's fault for stacking LeBron's team with TOO MANY SUPERSTARS!


:roll: :roll: :roll:

So, if you put Curry, Kobe, and Love on the same team...your argument is that Kobe and Love would combine for roughly 54 points per game while Curry maintained his stats as well?

And shit...that is offensively a way better combo in terms of it than Lebron/Wade/Bosh because they can all shoot. But the **** if those guys are averaging 80 points per game together.

That is your position?

[warriorfan]

How do the Warriors have an elite offense?


2015 - 2nd rated Offense in the Leauge
2016 - 1st rated Offense in the League

I'm pretty sure GSW offense is elite... :lol

[ShawkFactory]

Yeah it's not LeBron's fault for lowering his teammates statistics, it's the team's fault for stacking LeBron's team with TOO MANY SUPERSTARS!


:roll: :roll: :roll:
You clearly don't know enough about the game either way :lol

[Young X]

Set defense aside for one moment please.

How do Warriors have a Top Rated Offense with these Offensive Shit Bags? :confusedshrug:This year...Because Curry has been unbelievable so far.

Last year...Curry had a great season and was maybe the best offensive player in the league.

Klay was a legit all star and one of the best shooters in the league.

Green/Barnes/Igoudala weren't great but they were decent offensive players.

Plus they had a decent bench.

That's just one side of the court though. If you take away the defensive abilities of Green/Thompson/Bogut/Igoudala the Warriors would basically be the Raptors or slightly worse version of the Clippers.

[warriorfan]

So, if you put Curry, Kobe, and Love on the same team...your argument is that Kobe and Love would combine for roughly 54 points per game while Curry maintained his stats as well?

That is your position?

If Curry forced himself onto a team with Kobe and Love and coudln't get the job done I would tell him to suck a dicc and deal with it.

LeBron colluded his way to south beach, if it wasn't the best situation for him because there were TOO many superstars(LOL) then that is his bad.

[DMAVS41]

If Curry forced himself onto a team with Kobe and Love and coudln't get the job done I would tell him to suck a dicc and deal with it.

LeBron colluded his way to south beach, if it wasn't the best situation for him because there were TOO many superstars(LOL) then that is his bad.

This isn't relevant to the argument at hand.

And how did Lebron "not get the job done"?

[warriorfan]

This year...Because Curry has been unbelievable so far.

Last year...Curry had a great season and was maybe the best offensive player in the league.

Klay was a legit all star and one of the best shooters in the league.

Green/Barnes/Igoudala weren't great but they were decent offensive players.

Plus they had a decent bench.

That's just one side of the court though. If you take away the defensive abilities of Green/Thompson/Bogut/Igoudala the Warriors would basically be the Raptors or slightly worse version of the Clippers.

So if a player is so good offensively he can lead a bunch of defensive role players to the best Offense in the league while the role players solidify the best Defense in the league. What does that say about the player?

[warriorfan]

DMAVS you are done here wipe the jizz off your face and go home

[DMAVS41]

2015 - 2nd rated Offense in the Leauge
2016 - 1st rated Offense in the League

I'm pretty sure GSW offense is elite... :lol

Oh my god....are you really quote mining from a post above that answered the question right beneath it?

Okay...I'm done.

For those interested in the full quote;

How do the Warriors have an elite offense?

Easy...Curry is a transcendent offensive player that impacts the game hugely both on and off the ball and puts his teammates into great spots...combined with them having excellent shooting at pretty much every position if need be...with big men that can pass extremely well within the system.

You are awful dude...just awful.

[Young X]

So if a player is so good offensively he can lead a bunch of defensive role players to the best Offense in the league while the role players solidify the best Defense in the league. What does that say about the player?Thomspon was far from just a defensive role player last season. Defensive role players don't average over 20 PPG, they don't become one of the best volume shooters in the league and they don't start over Westbrook and CP3 in all-star games.

[DMAVS41]

Thomspon was far from just a defensive role player last season. Defensive role players don't average over 20 PPG, they don't become one of the best volume shooters in the league and they don't start over Westbrook and CP3 in all-star games.

It doesn't even matter if he's a "role player" or not.

What matters is how good he is.

And both Klay and Green over the last 100 plus games have been top 20 players in the league.

Define them however the **** he wants...they are all nba type players.

[warriorfan]

Oh my god....are you really quote mining from a post above that answered the question right beneath it?

Okay...I'm done.

For those interested in the full quote;

How do the Warriors have an elite offense?

Easy...Curry is a transcendent offensive player that impacts the game hugely both on and off the ball and puts his teammates into great spots...combined with them having excellent shooting at pretty much every position if need be...with big men that can pass extremely well within the system.

You are awful dude...just awful.

excellent shooting at every position?

barnes and klay are pretty good shooters

livingston not a good shooter, barbosa is decent but old and unreliable at times, green is not a good shooter, bogut is not a good shooter, ezeli is not a good shooter, iguodala is not a good shooter

so if a team has Klay Thompson and Harrison barnes that qualifies at "having excellent shooting at pretty much every position"

You are the Worst Poster of All-Time

[DMAVS41]

excellent shooting at every position?

barnes and klay are pretty good shooters

livingston not a good shooter, barbosa is decent but old and unreliable at times, green is not a good shooter, bogut is not a good shooter, ezeli is not a good shooter, iguodala is not a good shooter

so if a team has Klay Thompson and Harrison barnes that qualifies at "having excellent shooting at pretty much every position"

You are the Worst Poster of All-Time

Read the quote please. "pretty much every position if need be"

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Iggy
Green

I'd say that is excellent shooting at pretty much every position. And Speights played a quite a bit last year with Curry, Klay, Barnes, and Green...Speights isn't a great 3 point shooter obviously, but for a big he shoots well enough, especially form mid range, that you can't leave him....or at least don't want to.

No?

[Vancouver-Grizz]

I posted the same thing and got crapped on.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379723

[warriorfan]

Read the quote please. "pretty much every position if need be"

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Iggy
Green

I'd say that is excellent shooting at pretty much every position. And Speights played a quite a bit last year with Curry, Klay, Barnes, and Green...Speights isn't a great 3 point shooter obviously, but for a big he shoots well enough, especially form mid range, that you can't leave him....or at least don't want to.

No?

So you were only able to create one line up to somewhat fit your original description that only played 102 minutes all of last season.

Nice

[ShawkFactory]

Read the quote please. "pretty much every position if need be"

Curry
Klay
Barnes
Iggy
Green

I'd say that is excellent shooting at pretty much every position. And Speights played a quite a bit last year with Curry, Klay, Barnes, and Green...Speights isn't a great 3 point shooter obviously, but for a big he shoots well enough, especially form mid range, that you can't leave him....or at least don't want to.

No?
Why are you acting as though he pays attention when someone besides Curry has the ball?

Obviously he doesn't know what you're talking about.

[DMAVS41]

So you were only able to create one line up to somewhat fit your original description that only played 102 minutes all of last season.

Nice

Actually that is more than you lineup if you could read...and the lineup with Speights was the 2nd most used lineup.

In fact, you get:

Barnes, Curry, Klay, Green, Speights....200 minutes (2nd most used lineup)
Curry, Green, Iggy, Speights, Klay....126 minutes (4th most lineup)
Barnes, Curry, Green, Iggy, Klay....102 minutes (5th most used lineup)

So, what was your issue with what I said again? When I said they could have said shooting at pretty much every position if need be?

The evidence is right there hitting you in your face...

[HenryGarfunkle]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/200.gif
:roll:

[warriorfan]

Actually that is more than you lineup if you could read...and the lineup with Speights was the 2nd most used lineup.

In fact, you get:

Barnes, Curry, Klay, Green, Speights....200 minutes (2nd most used lineup)
Curry, Green, Iggy, Speights, Klay....126 minutes (4th most lineup)
Barnes, Curry, Green, Iggy, Klay....102 minutes (5th most used lineup)

So, what was your issue with what I said again? When I said they could have said shooting at pretty much every position if need be?

The evidence is right there hitting you in your face...

stop backtracking



combined with them having excellent shooting at pretty much every position


I guess Mo Speights, Andre Iguodala, and Draymond Green are now "excellent shooters".

:roll:

[DMAVS41]

stop backtracking



I guess Mo Speights, Andre Iguodala, and Draymond Green are now "excellent shooters".

:roll:

Backtracking? That would be you.

Mo Speights was an excellent mid range shooter. Didn't he shoot like 50% from mid range last year?

When they go small and play Iggy at the 4 and Green at the 5? Yes, those guys are excellent shooters at their positions on the court. You don't want to leave them....

Why do you think the Warriors played so many lineups like that?

It opens up the floor and because of the versatility of guys like Klay, Iggy, and Green...they can maintain great defense while nearly being impossible to stop offensively.

For a fan of the team...you seem to have such little grasp on so many key things that make them so good.

Done here now...you clearly are incapable of arguing in good faith.

[warriorfan]

Yeah, Mo SPeights, Andre Iguodala, and Draymond Green are excellent shooters...

Welcome 2 ISH

:roll:

[Pointguard]

Wait...what?

You think Draymond Green would be a bad player?

That could only happen if he stopped trying...he's legit one of the best defenders in the game.
Bad teams usually don't make it a priority to play defense. If he's on Philly I don't see us ever talking about him. KG was the only guy I seen play like it was the playoffs on a bad team. Lack of effort is contagious. I think DG, Barnes and Iggy are great in a mutual support system but wouldn't distinguish themselves in a bad setting. Iggy, the best of that bunch, was really close though.

[DMAVS41]

Bad teams usually don't make it a priority to play defense. If he's on Philly I don't see us ever talking about him. KG was the only guy I seen play like it was the playoffs on a bad team. Lack of effort is contagious. I think DG, Barnes and Iggy are great in a mutual support system but wouldn't distinguish themselves in a bad setting. Iggy, the best of that bunch, was really close though.

Us talking about him wouldn't change how good he is though. He'd be the same player capable of the same things.

Hell, we might not be talking about Leonard if he was drafted by the Sixers and remained there...but that doesn't make him less of a player.

All the above is arguing...is that Green isn't a superstar. Which I've never heard anyone say...now, if someone was arguing Green was a superstar...your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with it.

[AlphaWolf24]

stop backtracking



I guess Mo Speights, Andre Iguodala, and Draymond Green are now "excellent shooters".

:roll:


None of those guys are good shooters....they occasionally can knock down open shots ( mainly because of the perimeter double Curry attracts)...

but none of those guys can create like Michael Finley or Nash for example..

http://www.alljsalldtime.com/wp-content/gallery/air-jordan-xvi-aj-16-michael-finley-mavericks-pe/aj-xvi-michael-finley-mav-pe-www-ajsadt-com-2.jpg..

heck even Antwan Jamison was a much better offensive player then those guys...



Man those 2000's Mavs teams were stacked to the Gills!!!

[warriorfan]

None of those guys are good shooters....they occasionally can knock down open shots ( mainly because of the perimeter double Curry attracts)...

but none of those guys can create like Michael Finley or Nash for example..

http://www.alljsalldtime.com/wp-content/gallery/air-jordan-xvi-aj-16-michael-finley-mavericks-pe/aj-xvi-michael-finley-mav-pe-www-ajsadt-com-2.jpg..

heck even Antwan Jamison was a much better offensive player then those guys...



Man those 2000's Mavs teams were stacked to the Gills!!!

quality ether my good sir :applause:

[DMAVS41]

None of those guys are good shooters....they occasionally can knock down open shots ( mainly because of the perimeter double Curry attracts)...

but none of those guys can create like Michael Finley or Nash for example..

http://www.alljsalldtime.com/wp-content/gallery/air-jordan-xvi-aj-16-michael-finley-mavericks-pe/aj-xvi-michael-finley-mav-pe-www-ajsadt-com-2.jpg..

heck even Antwan Jamison was a much better offensive player then those guys...



Man those 2000's Mavs teams were stacked to the Gills!!!

the 03 Mavs were certainly stacked and a great team... a team that wins it all imo if Dirk doesn't get hurt in the WCF.

04? Certainly stacked with offensive talent...hence why they had the best offense in the league and separated themselves hugely from the pack...just weren't a good team because they were terrible defensively.

02? Again...stacked for offense...which is why they had the best offense yet again...but had a terrible defense team.

Can't really understand why people bring these teams up...it literally makes our points for us.

But just to be clear....are you actually saying those Mavs teams should have been better than the Warriors last year?

[warriorfan]

But just to be clear....are you actually saying those Mavs teams should have been better than the Warriors last year?

No, mainly because Curry is a better player that is much easier to build a team around.

Dirk's soft spot is Defense while he occupies a Power Forward or Center slot.

When you have one guy in your frontcourt who is a defensive liability playing the entire game...it's hard to build a quality defense.

Otoh Steph Curry can play in the backcourt the entire game and provide the same or better offense as Dirk and allow 2 defensive studs to play in your frontcourt the entire game.

It's just the ideal way to build a basketball team.

[bdreason]

DrayGod is a great 3point shooter for his position. Speights is one of the best midrange shooting bigs in the league. Iggy is an average shooter at best, but he seems to hit them when we need them.

[DMAVS41]

DrayGod is a great 3point shooter for his position. Speights is one of the best midrange shooting bigs in the league. Iggy is an average shooter at best, but he seems to hit them when we need them.

But when the Warriors go small and Iggy plays the 4...he's an excellent shooter at that position....or at least the threat is.

In no way do you want to leave Iggy open at the 3 point line...and he's proven he is going to make around 35% of his 3's on these teams...and even a higher percentage than that when uncontested iirc the synergy numbers.

[warriorfan]

DrayGod is a great 3point shooter for his position. Speights is one of the best midrange shooting bigs in the league. Iggy is an average shooter at best, but he seems to hit them when we need them.

Draymond Green Career regular season 3 point percentage of 32.8%

Draymond Green Career PLAYOFF 3 point percentage of 28.7%

Draymond Green is NOT a great 3 point shooter, even if you want to throw in the hedge of "for his position".

[warriorfan]

But when the Warriors go small and Iggy plays the 4...he's an excellent shooter at that position....or at least the threat is.

In no way do you want to leave Iggy open at the 3 point line...and he's proven he is going to make around 35% of his 3's on these teams...and even a higher percentage than that when uncontested iirc the synergy numbers.

Andre Iguodala Career 3 point percentage is 33.4%

Andre Iguodala's Career Free Throw Percentage is 71.6%

This is not an excellent shooter, this is not even a good shooter. What is the matter with you guys? :lol

[bdreason]

DrayGod shot 34% from 3pnt last season, and is hitting at a 42% clip this season. You could argue it's a small sample size this year, but watching him shoot it's obvious he's improved his form and release. He's also improved his FT% this year by 10% so far. :eek:

[DMAVS41]

When talking about shooting at certain positions...the positions actually matters.

Hence why the ability to go small around Green at center is so valuable for the Warriors...and why 3 of their top 5 lineups last year were like this.

[AlphaWolf24]

the 03 Mavs were certainly stacked and a great team... a team that wins it all imo if Dirk doesn't get hurt in the WCF.

04? Certainly stacked with offensive talent...hence why they had the best offense in the league and separated themselves hugely from the pack...just weren't a good team because they were terrible defensively.

02? Again...stacked for offense...which is why they had the best offense yet again...but had a terrible defense team.

Can't really understand why people bring these teams up...it literally makes our points for us.

But just to be clear....are you actually saying those Mavs teams should have been better than the Warriors last year?

03' It wouldn't have mattered...dirk couldn't close the games....Mavs lost 2 in row with Dirk...

yes...04' the Mavs were better.....the Kings were slow as Dirt and all the games were close except 1....they beat the Kings the year before.

Dirk fizzled out and couldn't close ...


05' ...fizzled out again......
06' ...dirk couldn't close out Miami
07' LMAO....


11'....that's all LeBrons fault IMO.

[outbreak]

Andre Iguodala Career 3 point percentage is 33.4%

Andre Iguodala's Career Free Throw Percentage is 71.6%

This is not an excellent shooter, this is not even a good shooter. What is the matter with you guys? :lol

The league average for 3pt % is 34%. He's almost at league average and has been above it for the last 3 seasons. So he's a decent shooter even though that's usually not his role in the offence.

[DMAVS41]

Mavs teams in question;

02 - Best offense / 25th defense
03 - Best offense / 9th defense (great team)
04 - Best offense / 26th defense

Are you guys actually wondering why there is a difference? Or are you just playing stupid?

[warriorfan]

The league average for 3pt % is 34%. He's almost at league average and has been above it for the last 3 seasons. So he's a decent shooter even though that's usually not his role in the offence.

So if you shoot league average you can be categorized as an "excellent shooter" (as said by previous posters)

That is one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

[warriorfan]

Mavs teams in question;

02 - Best offense / 25th defense
03 - Best offense / 9th defense (great team)
04 - Best offense / 26th defense

Are you guys actually wondering why there is a difference? Or are you just playing stupid?

I wonder why those Mav teams were such garbage defensively?

I wonder if playing a defensive liability at PF or Center for 40+ minutes has something to do with it?

It's hard to build around Dirk. It's easy to build around Curry.

[DMAVS41]

03' It wouldn't have mattered...dirk couldn't close the games....Mavs lost 2 in row with Dirk...

yes...04' the Mavs were better.....the Kings were slow as Dirt and all the games were close except 1....they beat the Kings the year before.

Dirk fizzled out and couldn't close ...


05' ...fizzled out again......
06' ...dirk couldn't close out Miami
07' LMAO....


11'....that's all LeBrons fault IMO.


Dirk played 2 game 7's that year;

31/11/1 66% TS

30/19/2 69% TS

And your argument is that Dirk wasn't capable of playing under the pressure and closing?

Good effort though...

[warriorfan]

Dirk played 2 game 7's that year;

31/11/1 66% TS

30/19/2 69% TS

And your argument is that Dirk wasn't capable of playing under the pressure and closing?

Good effort though...

All while hurting his team's defense by occupying a PF or C spot with out bringing great defense.

[Pointguard]

Us talking about him wouldn't change how good he is though. He'd be the same player capable of the same things.

Hell, we might not be talking about Leonard if he was drafted by the Sixers and remained there...but that doesn't make him less of a player.

All the above is arguing...is that Green isn't a superstar. Which I've never heard anyone say...now, if someone was arguing Green was a superstar...your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with it.

I agree he's a solid piece. I had Klay as the second best player easily before the playoffs started last year. I said here that GS would turn around the Cleveland series once Iggy asserts himself as the leader. So I didn't have Green as the third best player last year. But I see the merits you talk about. The Warrior's can easily have anybody from Klay, Barnes, Green, Iggy, Bogut be the second best player on most nights in this system and Championship team, depending on how the coach tweaks the game.

Outside of Klay, they are mostly the third best player, on other STRUCTURED teams. Warriors are a team with a great basement - solid coaching, great support, everybody doing their job and holding up their part of the house. A real case of the sum being greater than its pieces.

I said the comment about Green to show how he was a conundrum for me. Remember, I said he was a good piece on a great team.

[DMAVS41]

I wonder why those Mav teams were such garbage defensively?

I wonder if playing a defensive liability at PF or Center for 40+ minutes has something to do with it?

It's hard to build around Dirk. It's easy to build around Curry.


Why were the good defensively in 03 then? If it's all on Dirk...how did he play 39 minutes a game on a team that finished 9th best on defense. With, the following players;

Nash, Finley, Van Exel, Lafrentz, Najera all playing huge minutes...

So he's tough to build around...yet that team gets to 9th defensively? LOL

[bdreason]

So if you shoot league average you can be categorized as an "excellent shooter" (as said by previous posters)

That is one of the most insane things I have ever heard...


It depends on position. A PF or C shooting the league average makes them a great 3pnt shooter. When DrayGod is playing PF/Center and hitting 34% from 3pnt, that's excellent. When Iggy is playing PF and hitting 35% from 3pnt, that's excellent.

[Mass Debator]

Stacked in the IQ category only.

Everyone just makes everyone better.
1. Double team Curry and you leave Klay, Barnes, and Dray open...or he just shoots 30 ft out with his eyes closed and it's gonna go in.
2. Klay can get hot and drop 30 on anyone and guard opponents' best wing.
3. Barnes is good in transition and can knock down shots. Doesn't have an ego. Athletic.
4. Draymond can switch onto anyone not worrying about the basket because Bogut is there. Does everything good.
5. Bogut provides toughness and rim protection.
6. Iggy is Dray and Barne's put into one player.
7. Livingston is just flat out awesome on D and runs the point efficiently. Good midrange/post game.
etc etc

Most all-around team with the right kind of personality. No glaring hole when it comes to roles.

[bdreason]

And Dirk has always been a solid man defender. He wasn't a defensive stopper, but he was hardly a liability in his prime.

[DMAVS41]

All while hurting his team's defense by occupying a PF or C spot with out bringing great defense.

This argument makes no sense. It's akin to saying Curry hurts his teams defense by taking up a spot that an elite defensive guard could occupy.

All you are really speaking to is that those Mavs teams, outside 03, weren't nearly as well constructed as the Warriors are currently.

Which, yet again, thanks for making my point for me.

Replacing Curry on these Warriors with Dirk and a decent pg...those teams would be easily the best teams Dirk ever played on. Oh my god...I can't even imagine the damage Klay, Dirk, Green would do....it would be so sick. It might even be more impossible to stop than the current Warriors. Put Dirk and Klay spotting up and run pick and roll with Green...whose excellent passing would just destroy teams. That set and the Dirk pick and roll / pop with these current Warriors were be about as close to offensive nirvana as possible....all while having an elite defense....jesus...too bad Dirk never got Curry level help.

Meanwhile, Curry replacing Dirk on those Mavs teams with a decent pf...would be more of the same. Elite offense and terrible defense.

So you really just have no point...and are completely blind to just how good of a team you have right now.

[bdreason]

And we should also mention Harrison Barnes, who shot 41% from 3pnt range last season and also played the PF spot.

[AlphaWolf24]

Dirk played 2 game 7's that year;

31/11/1 66% TS

30/19/2 69% TS

And your argument is that Dirk wasn't capable of playing under the pressure and closing?

Good effort though...


should have won Game 6 but he only scored 4 points!

next he had an 11 point game and a 16 point game ....He should have done more...especially considering how bad he is on defense......how much he coast on that side of the ball.

3 games he left on the table by not being able to close.



No wonder he fizzled out so many times with Stacked teams.

[DMAVS41]

should have won Game 6 but he only scored 4 points!

next he had an 11 point game and a 16 point game ....He should have done more...especially considering how bad he is on defense......how much he coast on that side of the ball.

3 games he left on the table by not being able to close.



No wonder he fizzled out so many times with Stacked teams.

Keep shifting that argument....

[AlphaWolf24]

Keep shifting that argument....


hahah.....you just really said that if Dirk swapped for Curry that the Warriors could still be good?...


hell NO....it would be basically the same teams he/Dirk had in Dallas...except worse offensively.

[DMAVS41]

hahah.....you just really said that if Dirk swapped for Curry that the Warriors could still be good?...


hell NO....it would be basically the same teams he/Dirk had in Dallas...except worse offensively.

Are you mentally challenged?

It would be, by far, the best team Dirk ever had with an average pg replacing Curry.

It's like the 11 Mavs but just better everywhere. Green, Dirk, Klay, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut....oh my god.

[outbreak]

So if you shoot league average you can be categorized as an "excellent shooter" (as said by previous posters)

That is one of the most insane things I have ever heard...

It's confusing because you have 4 threads about the same subject while in meltdown mode but that poster said he was an excellent shooter while playing PF in a small ball line up. Which while maybe I wouldn't say excellent shooting mid 30% from power forward in small ball is a pretty solid number.

[DMAVS41]

It's confusing because you have 4 threads about the same subject while in meltdown mode but that poster said he was an excellent shooter while playing PF in a small ball line up. Which while maybe I wouldn't say excellent shooting mid 30% from power forward in small ball is a pretty solid number.

I said excellent shooting at pretty much every position. Pretty much means not quite all.

He's shifting the focus, as usual, after he got caught quote mining and misrepresenting me.

[outbreak]

But when the Warriors go small and Iggy plays the 4...he's an excellent shooter at that position....or at least the threat is.

In no way do you want to leave Iggy open at the 3 point line...and he's proven he is going to make around 35% of his 3's on these teams...and even a higher percentage than that when uncontested iirc the synergy numbers.

there's the post i think

[outbreak]

I said excellent shooting at pretty much every position. Pretty much means not quite all.

He's shifting the focus, as usual, after he got caught quote mining and misrepresenting me.
https://mikethemuse.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/hallway-l.gif

This is warriorfans ass right now after all the l's he's taking in multiple threads

[DaOldLion]

they aren't, they have some really nice defensive players but nothing that we haven't seen before

they are able to play so well because Steph makes all of their jobs easier, there is almost always somebody who is wide open on offense thanks to the attention Steph draws, so guys like Barnes and Iggy are shooting WIDE OPEN jumpes while Draymond is the beneficiary of the "in-between" pass from Curry after he receives a double, and since Draymond can't shoot that well he usually drives and swings it out to a wide open shooter after Curry gets doubled.. so his assist get inflated, tricking people into thinking he's a great play-maker..

none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team.. Stacked is when you have multiple top 10 players.. or when your team is so stacked that the eventual b2b MVP is just sitting there playing a role at point guard..

who from the Warriors has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP? ABSOLUTELY NONE

[AlphaWolf24]

Are you mentally challenged?

It would be, by far, the best team Dirk ever had with an average pg replacing Curry.

It's like the 11 Mavs but just better everywhere. Green, Dirk, Klay, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut....oh my god.


I feel retarded reading your agenda driven Biased posts ....you and yer Brothers are always spewing.


Team slows way down....offense flows through Dirk and takes away from Green and Barnes....who's running the PG?....

defense ....OMG the defense.....Warriors would never get past Houston.

[DMAVS41]

they aren't, they have some really nice defensive players but nothing that we haven't seen before

they are able to play so well because Steph makes all of their jobs easier, there is almost always somebody who is wide open on offense thanks to the attention Steph draws, so guys like Barnes and Iggy are shooting WIDE OPEN jumpes while Draymond is the beneficiary of the "in-between" pass from Curry after he receives a double, and since Draymond can't shoot that well he usually drives and swings it out to a wide open shooter after Curry gets doubled

none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team.. Stacked is when you have multiple top 10 players.. or when your team is so stacked that the eventual b2b MVP is just sitting there playing a role at point guard..

who from the Warriors has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP? NONE OF THEM


there are a lot of different claims here.

I certainly agree they don't have anyone capable of leading anyone to the playoffs as the best player or winning a MVP.

however..."none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team"

I can't imagine you believe this.

[bdreason]

who from the Warriors has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP? NONE OF THEM


Who from the Cavs "has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP"? Love couldn't make the playoffs as the best player on his team. Kyrie couldn't make the playoffs in the EASTERN CONFERENCE as the best player. :oldlol:

[outbreak]

they aren't, they have some really nice defensive players but nothing that we haven't seen before

they are able to play so well because Steph makes all of their jobs easier, there is almost always somebody who is wide open on offense thanks to the attention Steph draws, so guys like Barnes and Iggy are shooting WIDE OPEN jumpes while Draymond is the beneficiary of the "in-between" pass from Curry after he receives a double, and since Draymond can't shoot that well he usually drives and swings it out to a wide open shooter after Curry gets doubled.. so his assist get inflated, tricking people into thinking he's a great play-maker..

none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team.. Stacked is when you have multiple top 10 players.. or when your team is so stacked that the eventual b2b MVP is just sitting there playing a role at point guard..

who from the Warriors has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP? ABSOLUTELY NONE

They don't need multiple MVP candidates, there's stacked as in have 2-3 top tier players and there's stacked as in having a deep line up full of guys who could play a big support role on any team which is what the warriors have.

I don't get why currystans have to get so offended. It doesn't make what Curry has done any less impressive, he's perhaps the greatest shooter of all time and is breaking the league right now. He's earned his place with an MVP and a ring. Just because he has a well built team doesn't make him any worse and doesn't mean we need 5 threads a day about how terrible his team mates are (which they aren't).

[DMAVS41]

I feel retarded reading your agenda driven Biased posts ....you and yer Brothers are always spewing.


Team slows way down....offense flows through Dirk and takes away from Green and Barnes....who's running the PG?....

defense ....OMG the defense.....Warriors would never get past Houston.

The way you post...I really don't think you've ever watched Dirk play or a NBA game.

Who is running point? Take your pick...give that team an average pg...its easily better than any of Dirk's teams in the past. You make it sound like we had some creator on the 11 Mavs. It was just Kidd dumping the ball into Dirk...or Dirk/Terry running a pick and roll. That's it...

This is probably Dirk's best team;

Kidd, Marion, Terry, Chandler, Barea, Peja, Stevenson, Haywood

Now, you're telling me a team of;

Average pg, Klay, Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Green, Livingston, Barbosa, Speights, Ezeli, Leee

Isn't better? Just replacing Marion with Iggy makes that 11 Mavs team considerably better because Iggy can actually shoot 3's and was equally as good defensively....unlike Marion who was basically told not to even think about shooting 3's in 11

I won't even get into how huge of an upgrade defensively the likes of Klay and Green are for that team and would allow them to play so many different ways

It's not remotely close

The only way the Mavs get worse is with replacing Kidd with an average pg...they get better everywhere else. Chandler/Haywood is nowhere near as good as Bogut/Green...Klay, Barnes, Iggy just destroys Terry, Marion, Stevenson...god damn...that shooting...that defense....makes me frustrated just thinking about how good a team like that would be

[DMAVS41]

They don't need multiple MVP candidates, there's stacked as in have 2-3 top tier players and there's stacked as in having a deep line up full of guys who could play a big support role on any team which is what the warriors have.

I don't get why currystans have to get so offended. It doesn't make what Curry has done any less impressive, he's perhaps the greatest shooter of all time and is breaking the league right now. He's earned his place with an MVP and a ring. Just because he has a well built team doesn't make him any worse and doesn't mean we need 5 threads a day about how terrible his team mates are (which they aren't).

He called me a Curry hater earlier after I said Curry could easily go down as the 2nd best pg ever and potentially challenge Magic as the GOAT pg if he keeps this up for 5 plus more years

That is how gone these people are...I'm now a Curry hater for thinking he might go down in the top 10 players of all time...

[LakersForlife]

haters just making it look like green and thompson some kind of superstar. and ish people making livingston an allstar

[DMAVS41]

haters just making it look like green and thompson some kind of superstar. and ish people making livingston an allstar

i have yet to here anyone call them superstars

[DaOldLion]

He called me a Curry hater earlier after I said Curry could easily go down as the 2nd best pg ever and potentially challenge Magic as the GOAT pg if he keeps this up for 5 plus more years

That is how gone these people are...I'm now a Curry hater for thinking he might go down in the top 10 players of all time...

no i did not

[DMAVS41]

no i did not

I was referring to someone else...and yes he did

[DaOldLion]

Who from the Cavs "has the ability to lead a team to the playoffs as the best player or to win an MVP"? Love couldn't make the playoffs as the best player on his team. Kyrie couldn't make the playoffs in the EASTERN CONFERENCE as the best player. :oldlol:

did I mention anything about the Cavs? :biggums:

insecure..


Kyrie couldn't make the playoffs in the EASTERN CONFERENCE as the best player. :oldlol:

I wasn't even talking about the Cavs but I'll go ahead about point out how dumb this statement is. Are you really going to judge a 19-21 year old for not making the playoffs on a team that was intentionally trying to tank :facepalm

Lebron didn't make the playoffs until 21 and that's with the Cavs trying to build a good team around him the entire time..Kyrie turned 22 last season..

[DaOldLion]

there are a lot of different claims here.

I certainly agree they don't have anyone capable of leading anyone to the playoffs as the best player or winning a MVP.

however..."none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team"

I can't imagine you believe this.

none of these guys is going to turn a non playoff team into a playoff by their arrival only..

[DMAVS41]

none of these guys is going to turn a non playoff team into a playoff by their arrival only..

I completely reject this.

If you put Green on the Pelicans next to Davis...oh my god...they would be so so so so so much better.

I don't think people realize just how great a fit Green would be on teams.

[outbreak]

none of these guys is going to turn a non playoff team into a playoff by their arrival only..
You don't think adding someone like Thompson or Green to one of the borderline play off teams doesn't push them in to the 8th seed? Give Orlando Klay Thompson and they'd take the 8th he'd fit in perfect with that roster. I agree none of them are on star level where they can carry a team on their own if that's meant but they have a lot of solid guys who can push a team that's close over the edge.

[WorldWarriors]

I completely reject this.

If you put Green on the Pelicans next to Davis...oh my god...they would be so so so so so much better.

I don't think people realize just how great a fit Green would be on teams.

I do and so do the Warriors. That's why they didn't hesitate to get his deal done after last season.

[DaOldLion]

I completely reject this.

If you put Green on the Pelicans next to Davis...oh my god...they would be so so so so so much better.

I don't think people realize just how great a fit Green would be on teams.

Pelicans made the playoffs last year, I said non playoff teams

[DaOldLion]

You don't think adding someone like Thompson or Green to one of the borderline play off teams doesn't push them in to the 8th seed? Give Orlando Klay Thompson and they'd take the 8th he'd fit in perfect with that roster. I agree none of them are on star level where they can carry a team on their own if that's meant but they have a lot of solid guys who can push a team that's close over the edge.

Is he going to star over Oladipo or the max contract Tobias?

either way, he's not turning the 25 win 2015 Orlando Magic into a playoff team..

[Young X]

The Warriors have have so many players that can contribute on any given night on either end. They have no major weaknesses really.

Anybody watch their game against Brooklyn a couple days ago?

They completely shut the Nets down in OT. Curry hit some big shots, Green had like 12 assists and played lockdown defense, Igoudala hit a 3 to send it to OT and made a key steal/assist, Barnes made shots, Bogut defended well.

No other team in the league besides the Spurs has this amount of quality players that contribute. That's why regardless of star power and individual offensive talent they're the 2 best teams in the league (both this season and last season).

[DaOldLion]

The Warriors have have so many players that can contribute on any given night on either end. They have no major weaknesses really.

Anybody watch their game against Brooklyn a couple days ago?

They completely shut the Nets down in OT. Curry hit some big shots, Green had like 12 assists and played lockdown defense, Igoudala hit a 3 to send it to OT and made a key steal/assist, Barnes made shots, Bogut defended well.

No other team in the league besides the Spurs has this amount of quality players that contribute. That's why regardless of star power and individual offensive talent they're the 2 best teams in the league (both this season and last season).

except that they do on the offensive end, when Curry isn't playing well they turn into the Grizzlies

[DMAVS41]

Pelicans made the playoffs last year, I said non playoff teams

they look like a non playoff team now...

but last year? easy...Pacers...they were 1 game out. He definitely gets them in...not even up for debate. helps them on both sides of the ball and takes their defense from really good to elite

Thunder definitely get in. Heat definitely get in.

[3ball]

All superstars will boost the stats of their players



Lebron doesn't boost the stats of his teammates - Love and Bosh's scoring plummeted alongside Lebron.. Also, the assists of EVERYONE plummeted alongside Lebron, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Love and Bosh.

This proves that Lebron achieves his stats at the expense of teammates.. With teammates playing below capacity, the TEAM played below capacity and underachieved their seeding (2009, 2010, 2011, 2014... 2004 Olympics... 2006 World Championships).

Not only did Lebron lower the APG of teammates, but he increased all of their assisted rates, which proves he turned teammates from playmakers to play-finishers... By turning teammates into play-finishers, Lebron prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that the the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors, and 90's Bulls used (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s), where all five guys SHARE the playmaking duties more equally.. Since Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking prevents the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he accumulates them at the expense of teammates, as previously-described (lower ppg and apg).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, playground style, which is far less impressive than the skill needed to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.. For example, MJ could've been a ball-dominant, low-assisted, easily solvable player that achieved stats at the expense of teammates too - but then he wouldn't be 6/6.
.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron doesn't boost the stats of his teammates - Love and Bosh's scoring plummeted alongside Lebron.. Also, the assists of EVERYONE plummeted alongside Lebron, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Love and Bosh.

This proves that Lebron achieves his stats at the expense of teammates.. With teammates playing below capacity, the TEAM played below capacity and underachieved their seeding (2009, 2010, 2011, 2014... 2004 Olympics... 2006 World Championships).

Not only did Lebron lower the APG of teammates, but he increased all of their assisted rates, which proves he turned teammates from playmakers to play-finishers... By turning teammates into play-finishers, Lebron prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that the the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors, and 90's Bulls used (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=23m40s), where all five guys SHARE the playmaking duties more equally.. Since Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking prevents the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he accumulates them at the expense of teammates, as previously-described (lower ppg and apg).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, playground style, which is far less impressive than the skill needed to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.. For example, MJ could've been a ball-dominant, low-assisted player that achieve stats at the expense of teammates too - but then he wouldn't be 6/6.

The post was made about a team like the Warriors.

Obviously if you put Lebron, Wade, Bosh on the same court...all of their stats can't go up. I already spoke to this.

Save the MJ vs Lebron stuff for a relevant thread please.

[DMAVS41]

except that they do on the offensive end, when Curry isn't playing well they turn into the Grizzlies

because it's a one star team. that is always how it's gonna be. the big thing the warriors have that most other 1 star teams didn't have...is that they can be elite on both ends.

rarely do you see 1 star teams be able to do both...

so the supporting cast is good enough to help get the offense elite...while also anchoring an elite defense at the same time.

that level of help is not common

[DaOldLion]

they look like a non playoff team now...

but last year? easy...Pacers...they were 1 game out. He definitely gets them in...not even up for debate. helps them on both sides of the ball and takes their defense from really good to elite

Thunder definitely get in. Heat definitely get in.

because they are missing multiple key players..


but last year? easy...Pacers...they were 1 game out.

sure, if you want to be dense as **** and pick a below .500 team who needed to win one more game to argue your point then go ahead, I agree, Draymond is worth one extra win.. whoopiddy doo..

But Draymond isn't taking teams like the Hornets, Magic, Pistons, 76ers, Knicks, Suns, Nuggets, Kings, Lakers etc. into the playoffs last year

[outbreak]

Is he going to star over Oladipo or the max contract Tobias?

either way, he's not turning the 25 win 2015 Orlando Magic into a playoff team..
Have you watched Orlando this year? they've come close to beating some top level teams and were .500 until losing to the wizards (because of some assy humphries 3s). They've got a shot at the 8th even without any additions but I think they'll fall to 9-10 due to inconsistency on offence.

He'd start of Oladipo, the team has looked better with Dipo out this season than with him in because he isos too much and hasn't been shooting well. Their biggest weakness in their close losses is not having a volume scorer down the stretch and that's where Klay would fit in well. He wouldn't be carrying the team but he'd fill a gap in this roster.

[DMAVS41]

because they are missing multiple key players..



sure, if you want to be dense as **** and pick a below .500 team who needed to win one more game to argue your point then go ahead, I agree, Draymond is worth one extra win.. whoopiddy doo..

But Draymond isn't taking teams like the Hornets, Magic, Pistons, 76ers, Knicks, Suns, Nuggets, Kings, Lakers etc. into the playoffs last year

You made a claim...I showed you why that claim was false.

I think Green is worth a lot more than 1 extra win...

I'm not sure why you always have to talk across points so much. You said something that should be considered non sense...then you made another claim that was non sense

Now you are speaking more rationally.

As for how valuable Green is to the average team? I don't know how to quantify it, but it's high for me. Having a legit elite defender with range shooting that can basically play 3 through 5 and seems like a great chemistry guy is of high value to me.

He's one of the 20 best players in the league to me...so yea...he's gonna move the needle for a lot of teams.

[Young X]

except that they do on the offensive end, when Curry isn't playing well they turn into the GrizzliesThat's not a weakness.

A weakness is bad rebounding, no perimeter/interior defense, no 3 point shooting, bad bench production, bad coaching, etc.

The Warriors don't have those problems. Almost every other team in the league has notable weaknesses as a team except them. No other team besides the Spurs even comes close to having the number of contributing players that they have. It's almost unfair.

[DMAVS41]

I do and so do the Warriors. That's why they didn't hesitate to get his deal done after last season.

Yea...what more do you want out of a guy in that position. Elite defense, great passing, versatility, good range shooting, great teammate...

LOL at people acting like he's not a difference maker

[DaOldLion]

Have you watched Orlando this year? they've come close to beating some top level teams and were .500 until losing to the wizards (because of some assy humphries 3s). They've got a shot at the 8th even without any additions but I think they'll fall to 9-10 due to inconsistency on offence.

He'd start of Oladipo, the team has looked better with Dipo out this season than with him in because he isos too much and hasn't been shooting well. Their biggest weakness in their close losses is not having a volume scorer down the stretch and that's where Klay would fit in well. He wouldn't be carrying the team but he'd fill a gap in this roster.

i'm not making these judgement off of 10+ games, that is way to early to judge teams. We see every year where teams like the Raptors or Pacers start hot then drop off, if a team hasn't proved anything in the past then they don't get the benefit of the doubt

Klay isn't turning the 2015 Magic into a playoff team

[DaOldLion]

That's not a weakness.

A weakness is bad rebounding, no perimeter/interior defense, no 3 point shooting, bad bench production, bad coaching, etc.

The Warriors don't have those problems. Almost every other team in the league has notable weaknesses as a team except them. No other team besides the Spurs even comes close to having the number of contributing players that they have. It's almost unfair.

Going from an elite offense to an average offense when one player is out is a weakness. They have nobody else on that team who can maintain their offenses level of play with Curry out

[DMAVS41]

Going from an elite offense to an average offense when one player is out is a weakness. They have nobody else on that team who can maintain their offenses level of play with Curry out

Would you at least agree that if most teams lost their clear cut best player...they'd be much worse

[DaOldLion]

You made a claim...I showed you why that claim was false.

I think Green is worth a lot more than 1 extra win...

I'm not sure why you always have to talk across points so much. You said something that should be considered non sense...then you made another claim that was non sense

Now you are speaking more rationally.

As for how valuable Green is to the average team? I don't know how to quantify it, but it's high for me. Having a legit elite defender with range shooting that can basically play 3 through 5 and seems like a great chemistry guy is of high value to me.

He's one of the 20 best players in the league to me...so yea...he's gonna move the needle for a lot of teams.


yeah in the most dense way, you sure did, but it did nothing to further your argument, just highlighted out petty and intellectually dishonest you can be when trying to push an agenda

[Young X]

Going from an elite offense to an average offense when one player is out is a weakness. They have nobody else on that team who can maintain their offenses level of play with Curry outYou don't know what a weakness is. A weakness is something that can be exploited. That's not something a team can exploit.

What team right now that is led by an elite offensive player wouldn't either struggle or underperform with them out?

[3ball]

Obviously if you put Lebron, Wade, Bosh on the same court...all of their stats can't go up.


Assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - everyone's APG should increase - but instead, APG decreased significantly for EVERYONE, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

Not only did Lebron lower the APG of teammates, but he increased all of their assisted rates, which proves he turned teammates from playmakers to play-finishers... By turning teammates into play-finishers, Lebron prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that the the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors, and 90's Bulls used, where all five guys SHARE the playmaking duties more equally.. Since Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking prevents the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he accumulates them at the expense of teammates, as previously-described (lower ppg and apg).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, playground style, which is far less impressive than the skill needed to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.. For example, MJ could've been a ball-dominant, low-assisted player that achieve stats at the expense of teammates too - but then he wouldn't be 6/6.

[DMAVS41]

yeah in the most dense way, you sure did, but it did nothing to further your argument, just highlighted out petty and intellectually dishonest you can be when trying to push an agenda

are you serious?

You made the following two claims;

1 "none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team"

2 "none of these guys is going to turn a non playoff team into a playoff by their arrival only.."

And you are calling me intellectually dishonest for showing you that those are false?

My first claim was that you don't believe it...and what do you know...you don't believe it

Come on man...don't do this...just admit you went overboard.

[DMAVS41]

Assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - everyone's APG should increase - but instead, APG decreased significantly for EVERYONE, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

Not only did Lebron lower the APG of teammates, but he increased all of their assisted rates, which proves he turned teammates from playmakers to play-finishers... By turning teammates into play-finishers, Lebron prevents the kind of equal-opportunity offenses that the the Mavs, Spurs, Warriors, and 90's Bulls used, where all five guys SHARE the playmaking duties more equally.. Since Lebron's monopolization of the playmaking prevents the best brand of basketball, equal or less-talented teams pull upsets by playing a better brand of basketball (2009, 2011, 2014)..

Ultimately, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he accumulates them at the expense of teammates, as previously-described (lower ppg and apg).. His stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, playground style, which is far less impressive than the skill needed to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.. For example, MJ could've been a ball-dominant, low-assisted player that achieve stats at the expense of teammates too - but then he wouldn't be 6/6.

I'm not debating this here with you...and I already have MJ as the GOAT and way better than Lebron....so anything you say is kind of just useless...

[DaOldLion]

Would you at least agree that if most teams lost their clear cut best player...they'd be much worse

again here you are being a simpleton showing off your ability of being intellectually dishonest..

YES obviously if most teams lost their best player for the entire season they'd be much worse, I can't believe I have to dignify such a question..

Of course, that wasn't what I was saying at ALL, I was saying that when Curry is out their elite offense immediately drops to average, and that there is nobody on the team that can maintain the regular level of offense when Curry is out. (as in resting on the bench)

So let's break this down for you since you seem to have such a hard time understanding the most simple concepts of this discussion.

When Curry is out, there is nobody who can make up for his scoring and play-making while he sits (not for an entire year, for stints where he is on the bench)

When a guy like KD sits or is out, WB is there, when LMA is out, Kawhi is there, when Lebron goes out, Kyrie can still be on the court.. etc etc.

when Curry is out the Warriors don't have anybody that can get close to his production for those 12 mpg that he sits, where as the teams like OKC, CLE, SAS have a guy who can at least get close to their best players level of offensive production

Now, if you'd like to have an honest discussion we can, but if you want to continue using your circle logic to argue all day then just move along..

[knicksman]

put bran in there and they arent stacked. Stop the excuses already bran stans. Leadership is the most important skill to have and players play inspired basketball depending on who their leader is. If your leader is an insecure statpadder then expect low morale uninspired basketball from your teammates. So stats are reduced which eventually lead to shit teammates. But if your leader inspires you to be the best version of you ala curry/russell then expect higher stats. And then instead of giving them credit we just gonna call them stacked. LOL I bet you guys are losers in real life.

[DaOldLion]

You don't know what a weakness is. A weakness is something that can be exploited. That's not something a team can exploit.

What team right now that is led by an elite offensive player wouldn't either struggle or underperform with them out?

other teams can't exploit an average to weak offense? Are you serious?

[DaOldLion]

are you serious?

You made the following two claims;

1 "none of these guys would be difference makers on any other team"

2 "none of these guys is going to turn a non playoff team into a playoff by their arrival only.."

And you are calling me intellectually dishonest for showing you that those are false?

My first claim was that you don't believe it...and what do you know...you don't believe it

Come on man...don't do this...just admit you went overboard.

no you just were intellectually dishonest, when I say Draymond Green isn't turning non playoff teams into playoff teams bringing up a team that needed to win a one game tie breaker against Boston isn't furthering your argument.

Any player can make a one game difference, and anybody being honest with themselves knows that. Sure you picked a team that wasn't in the playoffs, but that didn't further your point of Draymond's effectiveness, by claiming he could put a team over that one game hump or that he can turn a 38 win team into a 39 win team..and how you don't realize that is beyond me.

[Young X]

other teams can't exploit an average to weak offense? Are you serious?Compared to the other teams, when have the Warriors been an "average to weak offense"? Every team goes through what you're talking about.

[DMAVS41]

again here you are being a simpleton showing off your ability of being intellectually dishonest..

YES obviously if most teams lost their best player for the entire season they'd be much worse, I can't believe I have to dignify such a question..

Of course, that wasn't what I was saying at ALL, I was saying that when Curry is out their elite offense immediately drops to average, and that there is nobody on the team that can maintain the regular level of offense when Curry is out. (as in resting on the bench)

So let's break this down for you since you seem to have such a hard time understanding the most simple concepts of this discussion.

When Curry is out, there is nobody who can make up for his scoring and play-making while he sits (not for an entire year, for stints where he is on the bench)

When a guy like KD sits or is out, WB is there, when LMA is out, Kawhi is there, when Lebron goes out, Kyrie can still be on the court.. etc etc.

when Curry is out the Warriors don't have anybody that can get close to his production for those 12 mpg that he sits, where as the teams like OKC, CLE, SAS have a guy who can at least get close to their best players level of offensive production

Now, if you'd like to have an honest discussion we can, but if you want to continue using your circle logic to argue all day then just move along..

Here's an idea...stop making bat shit crazy claims so I don't have to waste my time addressing them...deal?

And I already addressed this...the Warriors defense is still so good that they can outscore or remain close to other teams without Curry.

In no way am I saying this team has a better supporting cast than the Cavs or Spurs or Thunder if healthy...so those examples mean very little.

You realize that other teams can be just as good or better, but built differently...right?

[3ball]

I'm not debating this here with you...and I already have MJ as the GOAT and way better than Lebron....


There's nothing to debate - assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - this is a fact.

So everyone's APG should increase - but instead, APG decreased significantly for EVERYONE, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

You claim MJ is better, but any time a REASON IS OFFERED AS TO WHY, you deny it (even a factual reason like lower APG for teammates)...

So you don't really think MJ is better... You're just giving lip service.. You're just too beta to go against the consensus and say "I think Lebron is better.".

[DMAVS41]

There's nothing to debate - assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - this is a fact.

So everyone's APG should increase - but instead, APG decreased significantly for EVERYONE, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

You claim MJ is better, but any time a REASON IS OFFERED AS TO WHY, you deny it (even a factual reason like lower APG for teammates)...

So you don't really think MJ is better... You're just giving just lip service.. My guess is that you're just too beta to go against the consensus and say "I think Lebron is better."

Hahahahah. You don't know me dude...I've been with MJ from the jump. Go troll someone else.

:wtf:

[DMAVS41]

no you just were intellectually dishonest, when I say Draymond Green isn't turning non playoff teams into playoff teams bringing up a team that needed to win a one game tie breaker against Boston isn't furthering your argument.

Any player can make a one game difference, and anybody being honest with themselves knows that. Sure you picked a team that wasn't in the playoffs, but that didn't further your point of Draymond's effectiveness, by claiming he could put a team over that one game hump or that he can turn a 38 win team into a 39 win team..and how you don't realize that is beyond me.

Like I said....don't make claims you don't actually believe.

My argument? It's that an elite and versatile defender like Green that can also play a big role in a quality offense is definitely a difference maker.

What is your argument again?

[3ball]

you're not being honest

[DaOldLion]

Compared to the other teams, when have the Warriors been an "average to weak offense"? Every team goes through what you're talking about.

when Curry isn't on the floor who do the Warriors have that can even get close to matching his offensive production?

These days almost every team has a guy who is only slightly worse than their best player.

KD isn't playing well then WB picks up the slack

Lebron isn't playing well then Kyrie picks up the slack

LMA isn't playing well then Kawhi picks up the slack

Curry doesn't have that luxury, the offense being elite depends on Curry being great every single game.. while other teams can have their best player off for a game or two without it affecting their offense as much as it would affect the Warriors if Curry has an off game or two

[DaOldLion]

Like I said....don't make claims you don't actually believe.

My argument? It's that an elite and versatile defender like Green that can also play a big role in a quality offense is definitely a difference maker.

What is your argument again?

my argument is that Draymond isn't a big enough difference maker to turn non playoff teams into playoff teams.. especially now in the west

your argument and lone example is that Draymond could turn a 38 win team into a 39 win team.. and that somehow is somehow supposed to show how big of a difference maker he is :oldlol: :oldlol:

[3ball]

Hahahahah. You don't know me dude...I've been with MJ from the jump.


So why deny obvious facts???

Assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - this is a fact... So everyone's APG should increase.

But instead, APG decreased significantly for everyone, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

[DMAVS41]

my argument is that Draymond isn't a big enough difference maker to turn non playoff teams into playoff teams.. especially now in the west

your argument and lone example is that Draymond could turn a 38 win team into a 39 win team.. and that somehow is somehow supposed to show how big of a difference maker he is :oldlol: :oldlol:

actually no, that isn't my argument...i'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent me.

the 38 to 39 win team stuff came in response to a claim you made...a claim you now have backed off of

my claim is that Draymond would be a difference maker on other teams and the fact that he's an elite and versatile defender that doesn't need the ball on offense, a very good passer/shooter for a big man and a good chemistry guy is my argument

All you argument is...is basically that Green isn't a superstar...which we all already agree with

[DMAVS41]

So why deny obvious facts???

Assist opportunities INCREASE when better scorers play on the same team - this is a fact... So everyone's APG should increase.

But instead, APG decreased significantly for everyone, including Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Bosh and Love.

You win...I agree with everything you say now and have ever said.

Please stop following me.

[3ball]

You win...I agree with everything you say now and have ever said.

Please stop following me.
Just concede the facts - don't say dumb shit like "superstars always boost the stats of teammates" when Lebron doesn't do this.

He lowers the APG and PPG of teammates - so don't erroneously claim superstars boost teammate stats - or at least use that caveat "except for Lebron".

Then you said when good teammates are on the same team, their stats will decline - this is obviously false, since their assists should increase.... But Lebron's teammates APG declined a ton... You're basically a dumbass - get it right next time, or get corrected again, as I did here for you

[DMAVS41]

Just concede the facts - don't say dumb shit like "superstars always boost the stats of teammates" when Lebron doesn't do this.

He lowers the APG and PPG of teammates - so don't erroneously claim superstars boost teammate stats - or at least use that caveat "except for Lebron".

Then you said when good teammates are on the same team, their stats will decline - but obviously, their assists should increase, and Lebron's teammates APG declined a ton... You're basically a dumbass - get it right next time, or get corrected again, as I did here for you

Do you really want to get into this here?

I made the comment in relation to a team like the Warriors.

And just no...flat out...no....putting superstars on the same team does not mean their assists should increase.

My post wasn't about Lebron at all, but in plenty of circumstances he's going to improve the impact and stats of his teammates.

You focusing on specific things only is a tell tale sign of trying to frame a debate that hasn't even started because I don't intend to.

But you going on and on and on about MJ vs Lebron is tiresome. I don't believe Lebron was better for a variety of reasons.

All I know is that you are the most annoying poster here by a large margin...

3ball
This message is hidden because 3ball is on your ignore list.

Took me a while because you can't directly link to it anymore, but finally found it when I got off the phone...so much better. Carry on 3ball...

[DMAVS41]

3ball
This message is hidden because 3ball is on your ignore list.

Just so you know...I can't see what nonsense you are spewing.

[warriorfan]

Do you really want to get into this here?

I made the comment in relation to a team like the Warriors.

And just no...flat out...no....putting superstars on the same team does not mean their assists should increase.

My post wasn't about Lebron at all, but in plenty of circumstances he's going to improve the impact and stats of his teammates.

You focusing on specific things only is a tell tale sign of trying to frame a debate that hasn't even started because I don't intend to.

But you going on and on and on about MJ vs Lebron is tiresome. I don't believe Lebron was better for a variety of reasons.

All I know is that you are the most annoying poster here by a large margin...

3ball
This message is hidden because 3ball is on your ignore list.

Took me a while because you can't directly link to it anymore, but finally found it when I got off the phone...so much better. Carry on 3ball...

DMAVS says all superstars makes their teammates better

3ball cites numerous examples that say otherwise

DMAVS can't handle it and has to put people on ignore

Nice

[warriorfan]

3ball
This message is hidden because 3ball is on your ignore list.

Just so you know...I can't see what nonsense you are spewing.

meltdown

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS says all superstars makes their teammates better

3ball cites numerous examples that say otherwise

DMAVS can't handle it and has to put people on ignore

Nice

Has nothing to do with that at all....go read his posts to me. He tells me I secretly think Lebron is better. Which is not only false, but just a total red herring to any type of discussion we were previously having.

My quote was clearly in relation to a team like the Warriors in a very specific way as it was in response to someone.

Like I said before...if people need an explanation why stats would go down for Wade and Bosh playing next to a player like Lebron....then you are all even dumber than I previously thought

[DMAVS41]

meltdown

Yes...what a meltdown. You might be next...actually would be much better not seeing your horrid and pathetically biased posts all over the place.

You post a lot like 3ball...non sensical arguments about irrelevant subjects to the actual material at hand

[nathanjizzle]

everything dmavs says is exaggerated. last season he emphasized how "grueling" and "difficult" it was to play in the west, and that every game was a "bloodbath". there is no difference from last season to this season. what an idiot.

[3ball]

Yes...what a meltdown. You might be next...actually would be much better not seeing your horrid and pathetically biased posts all over the place.

You post a lot like 3ball...non sensical arguments about irrelevant subjects to the actual material at hand
You're the one that said superstars boost teammate stats when Lebron clearly lowers the PPG and APG of his teammates..... SIGNIFICANTLY

:roll:

[warriorfan]

DMAVS41 can we have some more commentary on how Draymond Green, Shaun Livingston, Mo SPeights, and Andre Iguodala are all excellent shooters? :roll:

[3ball]

putting superstars on the same team does not mean their assists should increase.


You're wrong - better teammates result in more assist opportunities - generally speaking, a player will have more assist opportunities alongside a higher scoring teammate than a lower-scoring teammate..

This is obvious, intuitive, and indisputable....

And obviously, it's a bad thing that APG significantly DECLINED for all of Lebron's teammates - like, APG didn't even remain steady - it cratered for all of Lebron's teammates.

[DMAVS41]

I see the trolls are out in full force now...good conversation to everyone that was involved.

I'm done in this thread.

[warriorfan]

I see the trolls are out in full force now...good conversation to everyone that was involved.

I'm done in this thread.

later bro

[bdreason]

did I mention anything about the Cavs? :biggums:




So what team would you consider stacked? Since you claim a stacked team needs to have multiple players who can single handedly take a team to the playoffs.

The Cavs aren't stacked with LeBron, Love, and Irving. The Thunder aren't stacked, since we watched Westbrook fail to make the playoffs without Durant. Could any of the players on the Spurs carry a team to the playoffs single handedly? Maybe Aldridge could get it done... in the East. :oldlol:


I guess the league just doesn't have any "stacked" teams anymore.

[Fire Colangelo]

So what team would you consider stacked? Since you claim a stacked team needs to have multiple players who can single handedly take a team to the playoffs.

The Cavs aren't stacked with LeBron, Love, and Irving. The Thunder aren't stacked, since we watched Westbrook fail to make the playoffs without Durant. Could any of the players on the Spurs carry a team to the playoffs single handedly? Maybe Aldridge could get it done... in the East. :oldlol:


I guess the league just doesn't have any "stacked" teams anymore.

Idiots can't even make a proper argument.

Using his argument, the 2008 Celtics weren't stack either since Ray, Pierce, and KG all couldn't carry their teams to the playoffs in 2007.


I find it kind of weird that all these "warriors fans" from 2007 are shitting on their team to prop up Curry...

[DaOldLion]

Idiots can't even make a proper argument.

Using his argument, the 2008 Celtics weren't stack either since Ray, Pierce, and KG all couldn't carry their teams to the playoffs in 2007.


I find it kind of weird that all these "warriors fans" from 2007 are shitting on their team to prop up Curry...

are you serious :oldlol:

The 08 Celtics had 3 players who when properly built around proved they could lead their teams to the playoffs multiple times, terrible example :oldlol:

[DaOldLion]

So what team would you consider stacked? Since you claim a stacked team needs to have multiple players who can single handedly take a team to the playoffs.

The Cavs aren't stacked with LeBron, Love, and Irving. The Thunder aren't stacked, since we watched Westbrook fail to make the playoffs without Durant. Could any of the players on the Spurs carry a team to the playoffs single handedly? Maybe Aldridge could get it done... in the East. :oldlol:


I guess the league just doesn't have any "stacked" teams anymore.

A team with 4 max players isn't stacked? :oldlol: They also have JR Smith, Iman Shumpert, Mo Williams etc etc, when healthy they are most certainly stacked..

I knew there was an agenda somewhere :oldlol: , idiots getting really insecure..

And yes WB could easily be the best player on a playoff team, LMA has alredy done this, both OKC, healthy CLE and the Spurs are stacked with TALENT.

Draymond, Klay, could not be, at this point in their careers, the best player on a playoff team

[AlphaWolf24]

3ball
This message is hidden because 3ball is on your ignore list.

Just so you know...I can't see what nonsense you are spewing.

B!tchMove.....

07' Dirk Levels of disappointment in you...and yer Fam.

[WorldWarriors]

Geez what happened to this thread? Some good debate in here before I left work. :oldlol: Oh well it was good while it lasted.

[SyRyanYang]

Andrew Bogut = Role Player, scored 6 points per game last season
Andre Iguodala = Role Player, 13 points per game for his career, 33% career 3 point shooter
Harrison Barnes = Role Player, career average 10 points per game, 1 assist, .530 TS%
Draymond Green = Role Player, drafted 2nd round, 35th overall, Carreer average 7 points a game, 33% career 3 point shooter
Festus Ezeli = Role Player, drafted 30th overall, career average of 3.6 points a game and 13 minutes per game
Klay Thompson = 3&D Role Player, scored 15 points 1 rebound on .500% TS in the finals. Disappears often and may have Autism.
Leandro Barbosa = Lower end Role Player, 33 years old and career average of 11 points and 2 assists per game
Shawn Livingston = Lower end Role Player suffering from being somewhat crippled. Career average of a whopping 6.8 points per game.
Mo Speights = Role Player with a career average of 7.2 points per game

Why am I laughing so hard at this

[houston]

Let me simplify this.... its beacuase theyre winning.


yup this is true lol

[houston]

2015 warriors = 91 bulls


Curry,Klay,Green = Jordan,Pippen,grant


All you need in the NBA to win is two all-star quality players.

[FKAri]

I find it kind of weird that all these "warriors fans" from 2007 are shitting on their team to prop up Curry...

It's just that one dude. He's not knowledgeable. He isn't funny. He's useless. Put him on the ignore list and enjoy your stay.

[warriorfan]

It's just that one dude. He's not knowledgeable. He isn't funny. He's useless. Put him on the ignore list and enjoy your stay.

you have been posting a lot about me lately

its cool bro just no more snitching

[GIF REACTION]

warriorfan wears slim jim condoms

[riseagainst]

its just an excuse by bran stans coz their boy constantly reduce teammates production

pretty much this.

Stacked is having multiple players who could be franchise level lead dogs on the same team. Golden State only has 1 player of that caliber and his name is Andre Iguodala.
jk :P