All-time GOAT Shooting guard number 5

[Dragonyeuw]

It's safe to say the consensus all-time top 4 shooting guards are MJ, Kobe, Wade, and West( MJ is number one, order the other 3 however you wish). So who is generally considered number 5 as of right now?

[Gus Hemmingway]

clyde

[ArbitraryWater]

Clyde

[ISHGoat]

Harden

[houston]

hal greer is number 5 for sure

[riseagainst]

Harden


:roll:

[GrapeApe]

I think it's between Drexler and Gervin, and personally I'd give the edge to Drexler. Gervin was the better scorer but Drexler was a better all-around player and he won a championship as a key contributor. Peak Drexler was a beast too (28/7/7/3 on 50%). He had some great playoff runs in the late 80's / early 90's.

[Legends66NBA7]

Clyde Drexler
George Gervin
Allen Iverson
Hal Greer
Sam Jones
Ray Allen
Reggie Miller
Sidney Monrcreif
Manu Ginobili
James Harden

I expect those names to pop up a lot. I added a bunch just for the sake of it. Do you guys consider Tracy McGrady a SG or SF ?

[warriorfan]

Steph Curry can slide over to the shooting guard position and he was better than Jerry West and right up there with Kobe and Wade.

[feyki]

Drexler .

6 to 10 ,

Sam Jones 35-40 all time
Reggie Miller 40-45 all time
Iverson 45-50 all time
Gervin 45-50 all time
Ray Allen 55-60 all time

[Dragonyeuw]

Do you guys consider Tracy McGrady a SG or SF ?

He's more considered a SG, though its interesting to note that he was second team all-NBA SG in 2001, first team SF in 2002, then the remainder of his all-NBA team selections are at the guard spot.

[Dragonyeuw]

Higher all-time: Vince or Tmac?

[kennethgriffin]

stephen curry is the 5th best shooting guard of all time


we all know he aint no ****in PG

:lol


33/5/5 is a shooting guard stat line

[kennethgriffin]

jerry west like curry was also listed at PG for almost his entire career

[ShawkFactory]

Higher all-time: Vince or Tmac?
Vince higher all time with the length of his career but TMac was better.

Pretty simple to me.

[FKAri]

Higher all-time: Vince or Tmac?

Vince had the better career
TMac had the better peak
Vince's peak was also more derailed by injuries than TMac's. Vince peaked in his 3rd season. Atleast we got to see TMac play closer to his theoretical peak even if it was wasted on those WOAT Orlando teams.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Clyde Drexler
George Gervin
Allen Iverson
Hal Greer
Sam Jones
Ray Allen
Reggie Miller
Sidney Monrcreif
Manu Ginobili
James Harden

I expect those names to pop up a lot. I added a bunch just for the sake of it. Do you guys consider Tracy McGrady a SG or SF ?
Ginobili in no way shape or form belongs on that list ... and I consider McGrady a SF

[ArbitraryWater]

Ginobili in no way shape or form belongs on that list ... and I consider McGrady a SF

Yes he does

[Milbuck]

Ginobili in no way shape or form belongs on that list ... and I consider McGrady a SF
Yes he absolutely does.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I got TMac as a SG...

[Dragonyeuw]

Vince had the better career
TMac had the better peak
Vince's peak was also more derailed by injuries than TMac's. Vince peaked in his 3rd season. Atleast we got to see TMac play closer to his theoretical peak even if it was wasted on those WOAT Orlando teams.

Agree with Carter better career, Tmac higher peak, though I think Vince's injury rep during his prime is a bit overblown. He ws injured between 2002 and 2003 before he left Toronto, but he was playing no less that 73 games between 2004 and 2011, with a few 80 game seasons thrown in.

[Bankaii]

AI>Drexler

[GrapeApe]

AI>Drexler

In what way exactly? The only edge Iverson has is volume scoring. Drexler was more efficient, a significantly better rebounder and defender, and I'd argue just as good a passer and playmaker. Prime Drexler was putting up 27/8/6/3 on 50%. Drexler twice brought a team to the finals as a first option and won a title as an all-star second option. I don't think Iverson has any case over Drexler honestly.

[houston]

Hal Greer is number 5

10x all-star

7x all-nba 2nd plus he was leading scorer on championship team.

[GrapeApe]

Hal Greer is number 5

10x all-star

7x all-nba 2nd plus he was leading scorer on championship team.

The bolded is factually correct but c'mon.

In the 1967 playoffs:

Greer: 28/6/5 on 43%
Wilt: 22/29/9 on 58%

The gap between Wilt and Greer is >>> the gap between Hakeem and Drexler.

[houston]

The bolded is factually correct but c'mon.

In the 1967 playoffs:

Greer: 28/6/5 on 43%
Wilt: 22/29/9 on 58%

The gap between Wilt and Greer is >>> the gap between Hakeem and Drexler.


so???


The point Hal Greer was more dominant player than Drexler.

[GrapeApe]

so???


The point Hal Greer was more dominant player than Drexler.

No he wasn't.

Regular season:

Drexler: 20/6/6 on 47%
Greer: 19/5/4 on 45%

Playoffs:

Drexler: 20/7/6 on 45%
Greer: 20/6/4 on 43%

[feyki]

so???


The point Hal Greer was more dominant player than Drexler.

On what? Scoring,playmaking,defences,shooting? Drexler has all above Greer .

[game3524]

A.I

[game3524]

In what way exactly? The only edge Iverson has is volume scoring. Drexler was more efficient, a significantly better rebounder and defender, and I'd argue just as good a passer and playmaker. Prime Drexler was putting up 27/8/6/3 on 50%. Drexler twice brought a team to the finals as a first option and won a title as an all-star second option. I don't think Iverson has any case over Drexler honestly.

Clyde is more efficient, but you have to remember that the Blazers were a fast break team, while AI spent the majority of his prime on slow paced/half court teams with little to no outside shooting.

As for defense, Clyde is a better man-defender, but AI was the more impactful defender due to his outstanding help defense.

Clyde is the better passer and rebounder though.

[Bankaii]

In what way exactly? The only edge Iverson has is volume scoring. Drexler was more efficient, a significantly better rebounder and defender, and I'd argue just as good a passer and playmaker. Prime Drexler was putting up 27/8/6/3 on 50%. Drexler twice brought a team to the finals as a first option and won a title as an all-star second option. I don't think Iverson has any case over Drexler honestly.
Career numbers-
RS-
Iverson: 27/6/4/2/0.2 on 43%.
Drexler: 20/6/6/2.2/0.7 on 47%.

Playoffs-
Iverson: 30/4/6/2/0.2 on 44%.
Drexler: 20/7/6/2/0.7 on 48%.

Prime AI was putting up 31/2/10 on 52% eFG% in the PLAYOFFS. Drexler doesn't even come close to that.

Drexler's efficiency doesn't mean much when first, his supporting cast was much better and provided offensive help and attention, and second, AI is scoring 10 more points on only 4% less FG%.
Drexler is only a better rebounder because of his height advantage and playmaking and defense is close to a wash.

AI led an offensively depleted team to the Finals and stole a win against arguably the GOAT team by himself.
Drexler won a ring along side a guy that already proven he could win with less help and is a top 11 GOAT. AI's best teammate was freaking Melo.

AI has more MVPs (1), more All-star appearances, more All-NBA teams, more scoring titles, and more steals awards. All while being nowhere near as gifted height wise.

Quit acting like it isn't close, that's utterly ridiculous.

[feyki]

Career numbers-
RS-
Iverson: 27/6/4/2/0.2 on 43%.
Drexler: 20/6/6/2.2/0.7 on 47%.

Playoffs-
Iverson: 30/4/6/2/0.2 on 44%.
Drexler: 20/7/6/2/0.7 on 48%.

Prime AI was putting up 31/2/10 on 52% eFG% in the PLAYOFFS. Drexler doesn't even come close to that.

Drexler's efficiency doesn't mean much when first, his supporting cast was much better and provided offensive help and attention, and second, AI is scoring 10 more points on only 4% less FG%.
Drexler is only a better rebounder because of his height advantage and playmaking and defense is close to a wash.

AI led an offensively depleted team to the Finals and stole a win against arguably the GOAT team by himself.
Drexler won a ring along side a guy that already proven he could win with less help and is a top 11 GOAT. AI's best teammate was freaking Melo.

AI has more MVPs (1), more All-star appearances, more All-NBA teams, more scoring titles, and more steals awards. All while being nowhere near as gifted height wise.

Quit acting like it isn't close, that's utterly ridiculous.

Peaks (playoffs) ;

Iverson 2001 ,

32.9 pts , 4.7 rib , 6.1 ast , 2.4 stl , 0.3 blk , 2.9 to , %48 TS , 105 ortg , 106 drtg

Drexler 92 ,

26.3 pts , 7.4 rib , 7 ast , 1.5 stl , 1 blk , 2.8 to , %55 TS , 120 ortg , 110 drtg .

I choose Drexler at peaks .

[sportjames23]

Clyde "The Glide" Drexler

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Emanuel Ginobili

[Dragonyeuw]

I can't decide between Clyde and Iverson even just looking at their numbers. Iverson gets a bad rap for his shooting percentages but I also feel like he had it much harder as an undersized shooting guard to even create shots over taller defenders, in what is generally acknowledged as a great defensive era. Its interesting to note that Iverson's TS% went up the minute the rules changed in 2004/5. Maybe in Clyde's era or if Iverson actually started a decade later his volume scoring would be the same but the overall percentages would look better. I'd definitely say Clyde was much better at being able to get great numbers within a team framework.

[feyki]

I can't decide between Clyde and Iverson even just looking at their numbers. Iverson gets a bad rap for his shooting percentages but I also feel like he had it much harder as an undersized shooting guard to even create shots over taller defenders, in what is generally acknowledged as a great defensive era. Its interesting to note that Iverson's TS% went up the minute the rules changed in 2004/5. Maybe in Clyde's era or if Iverson actually started a decade later his volume scoring would be the same but the overall percentages would look better. I'd definitely say Clyde was much better at being able to get great numbers within a team framework.

I think Drexler has clearly better career . Gervin and Iverson are close for me . They were got mvp votes and make some playoffs success . Both have shorty prime . It's close for me .

[Dragonyeuw]

I think Drexler has clearly better career . Gervin and Iverson are close for me . They were got mvp votes and make some playoffs success . Both have shorty prime . It's close for me .

I agree it's close regardless of who you decide to go with. I just hate when people say the 'and it's not close' type comments. Personally, championship aside( and Clyde was playing second fiddle to Hakeem for that, though a strong one), I don't think his career was much better than Iverson's, if at all. I think it's easy to shit on A.I because of how he flamed out at 34, the 'you talking about practice' rant, and how he wasn't particularly efficient, but then I look at what he did in 2001 getting the Sixers to the finals, beating out teams that were probably more talented and single-handledly willing Philly to a victory over a team that swept through much better teams than the Sixers, and I think he gets a bit of a bad rep.

He was far from perfect, but I do think he's better than he seems to be getting credit for nowadays. I also think that its pretty easy to tell that in this era, he'd likely be even better. Take 2011 Derrick Rose and infuse him with more toughness, grit and determination, and I'm thinking that's probably close enough to what A.I would be, or Westbrook without the rebounding and triple double potential.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Jordan
Kobe
West
Wade
--> Drexler

[Bankaii]

Peaks (playoffs) ;

Iverson 2001 ,

32.9 pts , 4.7 rib , 6.1 ast , 2.4 stl , 0.3 blk , 2.9 to , %48 TS , 105 ortg , 106 drtg

Drexler 92 ,

26.3 pts , 7.4 rib , 7 ast , 1.5 stl , 1 blk , 2.8 to , %55 TS , 120 ortg , 110 drtg .

I choose Drexler at peaks .
It's dumb to cherry pick one season to determine the better player. Especially when AI has series where he averaged 7-8 more points on only 4% lower shooting. And when you add in the fact that Drexler had FAR more help. Portland SIX players average double digit points, which is double what the 76ers had. Obviously AI shot lower percentages because he was the only focal point on offense. He still had far more points per game.
AI is arguably the better playmaker, defense is a wash. The only thing Drexler did better is rebounding because of height.

In terms of careers AI clearly wins. Drexler has no where near the accolades while competing in a much worse era for shooting guards.

AI>Drexler

[Marchesk]

Steph Curry can slide over to the shooting guard position and he was better than Jerry West and right up there with Kobe and Wade.

Maybe Curry will have a case when he averages 29 ppg in the playoffs over his entire career.

[Cold soul]

Vince higher all time with the length of his career but TMac was better.

Pretty simple to me.


Yup this.

[feyki]

I agree it's close regardless of who you decide to go with. I just hate when people say the 'and it's not close' type comments. Personally, championship aside( and Clyde was playing second fiddle to Hakeem for that, though a strong one), I don't think his career was much better than Iverson's, if at all. I think it's easy to shit on A.I because of how he flamed out at 34, the 'you talking about practice' rant, and how he wasn't particularly efficient, but then I look at what he did in 2001 getting the Sixers to the finals, beating out teams that were probably more talented and single-handledly willing Philly to a victory over a team that swept through much better teams than the Sixers, and I think he gets a bit of a bad rep.

He was far from perfect, but I do think he's better than he seems to be getting credit for nowadays. I also think that its pretty easy to tell that in this era, he'd likely be even better. Take 2011 Derrick Rose and infuse him with more toughness, grit and determination, and I'm thinking that's probably close enough to what A.I would be, or Westbrook without the rebounding and triple double potential.

First of all , I respect Iverson for his talents . He is between 45-50 all time player for me. I think he is in the Same class with Elvin,Gervin,Durant,Howard at my all time list . That isn't underestimate Iverson for my truths .

[feyki]

It's dumb to cherry pick one season to determine the better player. Especially when AI has series where he averaged 7-8 more points on only 4% lower shooting. And when you add in the fact that Drexler had FAR more help. Portland SIX players average double digit points, which is double what the 76ers had. Obviously AI shot lower percentages because he was the only focal point on offense. He still had far more points per game.
AI is arguably the better playmaker, defense is a wash. The only thing Drexler did better is rebounding because of height.

In terms of careers AI clearly wins. Drexler has no where near the accolades while competing in a much worse era for shooting guards.

AI>Drexler

I wasn't said "Drex has better career" , ı said "Drex has better peak" on my arguement .

Drexler had more help at his prime , i agree that . But Jordan also had more help than Iverson or Drexler , we must look to the individual level.

Iverson phila career(100 poss playoffs stats) ;

37.2 pts , 5.1 rib , 7.4 ast , 2.7 stl , 0.3 blk , 3.9 to , %49.1 TS

Drexler blazers career(100 poss playoff stats) ;

27.5 pts , 9.1 rib , 8.7 ast , 2.6 stl , 1.1 blk , 3.9 to , %52.6 TS


Iverson has only scoring above Drex , yeah that is big margin but Drex has rib,ast,def,shooting above Ivy ; And I choose Drexler at their primes. And I also select Drexler's Rox career above Ivy's Nuggets career . Like I said , Drexler has clearly better career for me .

[Just2McFly]

How do watch Clyde and Iverson in their primes and choose drexler?

[Dragonyeuw]

First of all , I respect Iverson for his talents . He is between 45-50 all time player for me. I think he is in the Same class with Elvin,Gervin,Durant,Howard at my all time list . That isn't underestimate Iverson for my truths .

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't respect his talents, or were underestimating him. I was speaking in general.

[feyki]

I wasn't suggesting that you didn't respect his talents, or were underestimating him. I was speaking in general.

:rockon:


How do watch Clyde and Iverson in their primes and choose drexler?

You can't judge players with only watch . Analystic most important thing at this point .

[Bankaii]

I wasn't said "Drex has better career" , ı said "Drex has better peak" on my arguement .

Drexler had more help at his prime , i agree that . But Jordan also had more help than Iverson or Drexler , we must look to the individual level.

Iverson phila career(100 poss playoffs stats) ;

37.2 pts , 5.1 rib , 7.4 ast , 2.7 stl , 0.3 blk , 3.9 to , %49.1 TS

Drexler blazers career(100 poss playoff stats) ;

27.5 pts , 9.1 rib , 8.7 ast , 2.6 stl , 1.1 blk , 3.9 to , %52.6 TS


Iverson has only scoring above Drex , yeah that is big margin but Drex has rib,ast,def,shooting above Ivy ; And I choose Drexler at their primes. And I also select Drexler's Rox career above Ivy's Nuggets career . Like I said , Drexler has clearly better career for me .
If you seriously think peak Drexler is above peak Iverson, you must've not watched them both play.

As far as peaks go, you keep glossing over scoring when Iverson was scoring 10 more points on 3% less shooting. You can't call drexler the better shooter/scorer when Iverson was clearly better. Look at the stats you just posted.
Defense is a wash. All DRTG stats line up, and AI had more steals.
AI is the better playmaker. You aren't accountin for the fact that Drexler had teammates to get assists with. AI was the only focal point on offense. You don't add any context, you just make claims without fully understanding both situations.

As far as careers go, if you think Drexler was better there's no helping you. AI has a MVP, more steals championships, more All-star appearances, more scoring titles, more All-NBA teams all while playing in a tougher era for his position. Drexler's sidekick ring on a team that had already won the year before he came doesn't trump all that.

Add some freaking context and AI is clearly better at both peak and career.

[feyki]

Bankaii ;

You didn't read my post . The issue is over for me .