Morey, Hinkie suck

[90sgoat]

These guys and their 'advanced value drafting' are the most overrated people in the game.

What has Morey done for all his praise, he has a 8 baby momma center with zero post moves and he has lazy no d shooting guard.

Wow! Such general managing.

The same with Hinkie, now for the third year putting out abysmal basketball and betting on a guy who will be Oden 2.0 while his draft picks Noel and Okafor are hardly world beaters and his other draft pick Carter-Williams chokes it up for another club.

These so called 'modern' General Managers are pure crap. They have literally won NOTHING with their tank job and 'best value' mentality.

All the while old school guys like Popovich and Jerry West put together world beating teams out of role players.

Lol just lol at thinking the tank and draft mentality will get you anywhere.

[SwishSquared]

Spurs were pioneers in using analytics in basketball, just as they were in monitoring players' rest.

My understand is that the Warriors have a great analytics staff. They play their own version of "Morey Ball" by optimizing a mix of strategies created by D'Antoni and Pop.

Also Hinkie helped Morey accumulate the picks and players used in the Harden trade, which you probably know, so they share similar philosophies. You wouldn't trade an expiring vet, a late lotto rookie, a future late lotto pick, and an early 20s pick in order to lock up a top player through his peak?

MCW is not a good starting PG when you factor in offense. Noel is below average on offense but really good on D. Okafor is kinda the inverse. Embiid is most likely a bust. 76ers haven't tried to field a roster that can win 20 games. They want to trade for a star or draft one- hence continued tanking until they are comfortable that they get a couple stars. Risky strategy, who knows if it will work for them. Need luck in any successful team build imo

[DukeDelonte13]

Morey is media friendly so he's gonna get lost of love from the media.

I agree, I think he is overrated along with Ujiri.

I have mixed feelings on Hinkie. I think taking Embiid at 3 was a move that many other GM's would have made.

[DMAVS41]

These guys and their 'advanced value drafting' are the most overrated people in the game.

What has Morey done for all his praise, he has a 8 baby momma center with zero post moves and he has lazy no d shooting guard.

Wow! Such general managing.

The same with Hinkie, now for the third year putting out abysmal basketball and betting on a guy who will be Oden 2.0 while his draft picks Noel and Okafor are hardly world beaters and his other draft pick Carter-Williams chokes it up for another club.

These so called 'modern' General Managers are pure crap. They have literally won NOTHING with their tank job and 'best value' mentality.

All the while old school guys like Popovich and Jerry West put together world beating teams out of role players.

Lol just lol at thinking the tank and draft mentality will get you anywhere.

Comparing the Spurs and Lakers situations is kind of silly.

For starters, the Spurs got Duncan in the draft...coming off a season they essentially tanked.

The Lakers...well, they were the Lakers....Shaq wanted to go there...the trade for Kobe was smart...no doubt there, but the Sixers have made some amazing trades as well

The Noel trade will go down as one of the best trades in NBA history if Noel continues to progress....and or if Saric is legit as well

Morey built a really really really good team last year. And I like the addition of Lawson, but they have to bring him off the bench because starting him really doesn't make sense next to Harden both offensively and defensively

So...I don't know...pretty easy to build a team around Duncan or Shaq / Kobe

It's hard to do what Morey and Hinkie have tried to do...

[RoseCity07]

Spurs not only get underrated talent but they get guys that fit a system. Team guys that really know how to play. Every other team gets its hands on a star and all they do is give it to that one guy all game. Rocket's GM is a stat whore. Loser ass teams with overrated chuckers. The only player I'd want from them is Brewer.

[90sgoat]

Comparing the Spurs and Lakers situations is kind of silly.

For starters, the Spurs got Duncan in the draft...coming off a season they essentially tanked.

The Lakers...well, they were the Lakers....Shaq wanted to go there...the trade for Kobe was smart...no doubt there, but the Sixers have made some amazing trades as well

The Noel trade will go down as one of the best trades in NBA history if Noel continues to progress....and or if Saric is legit as well

Morey built a really really really good team last year. And I like the addition of Lawson, but they have to bring him off the bench because starting him really doesn't make sense next to Harden both offensively and defensively

So...I don't know...pretty easy to build a team around Duncan or Shaq / Kobe

It's hard to do what Morey and Hinkie have tried to do...

If we look back at champs the last 20 years, who has won it?

Bird Celtics
Magic Lakers
MJ Bulls
Duncan Spurs
Hakeem Rockets

Bad Boy Pistons
Bad Boy Pistons 00 edition
3 and Chuck Warriors
Pop Spurs
Shaq Lakers
Shaq Miami
Veteran Celtics
Collude Miami

One thing becomes clear. The only teams who won through drafting was those who drafted a top 10 GOAT.

Literally, those teams who drafted players and stuck with them only won if they lucked out and drafted a top 10 GOAT.

The rest of the teams won through creating a winning environment which other players wanted to join and making good offseason moves (Celtics, Miami, Lakers) or through creating a strong team identity based on defense and deference to the team concept.

This idea that you can draft value and wheel and deal until you have just the right pieces doesn't seem to have any proof behind it.

It's on thing to tank when you know a potential GOAT is coming along, which everyone knew with Tim Duncan, it's another to tank in weak drafts with unproven high school players. No one knew Garnett or Kobe would turn out as they did and they mostly don't.

Philly is tanking to get mediocre players or players with very risky prospects.

The old school way to win is to build a strong team with a strong concept and a strong identity, then you look to add the one missing piece who can get it done. Plug and Play. You can't just flip a switch and say start winning, without considering the base of the team and the chemistry.

Bird did a fantastic job with the Pacers in building that core around David West and PG, while letting the team and it's defensive effort be the identity. He even made Roy Hibbert and All Star because of it and they came very close to the finals.

[Akrazotile]

The fact is there is no science to it and these teams are ALL guessing for the most part.

You need to be lucky to have a Shaq, Duncan, Lebron etc come along if you wanna build an automatic perennial contender. Otherwise you may win a chip here or there if circumstances come together in a given year, but for the most part its simply about lucking into talent. GM's who do get praised, tho who dont get jeered.

[90sgoat]

The fact is there is no science to it and these teams are ALL guessing for the most part.

You need to be lucky to have a Shaq, Duncan, Lebron etc come along if you wanna build an automatic perennial contender. Otherwise you may win a chip here or there if circumstances come together in a given year, but for the most part its simply about lucking into talent. GM's who do get praised, tho who dont get jeered.

Yes, there's luck involved, A LOT of luck, such as not picking Sam Bowie or Oden, but there's also retard drafting such as Darko or Bennet.

My point is, there really is zero proof that you can draft, wheel and deal yourself into a contender.

What best you do is to build a great team and great culture. It begins with having a great coach who is allowed to actually run the team and dicipline the players.

There's so few coaches who have actually won rings if you look at it. Pop, PJ, Riley, these are not flukes. Riley did it with Lakers, came close with Knicks, won with Heat, won as an exec. Bird came close as a coach with the Pacers and came close as an exec. PJ we all know, Pop we all know.

You need to build from the top down, you can't let players run the show, you need to know what you are about and what that plan looks like 1-5-10 years in the future.

[DMAVS41]

If we look back at champs the last 20 years, who has won it?

Bird Celtics
Magic Lakers
MJ Bulls
Duncan Spurs
Hakeem Rockets

Bad Boy Pistons
Bad Boy Pistons 00 edition
3 and Chuck Warriors
Pop Spurs
Shaq Lakers
Shaq Miami
Veteran Celtics
Collude Miami

One thing becomes clear. The only teams who won through drafting was those who drafted a top 10 GOAT.

Literally, those teams who drafted players and stuck with them only won if they lucked out and drafted a top 10 GOAT.

The rest of the teams won through creating a winning environment which other players wanted to join and making good offseason moves (Celtics, Miami, Lakers) or through creating a strong team identity based on defense and deference to the team concept.

This idea that you can draft value and wheel and deal until you have just the right pieces doesn't seem to have any proof behind it.

It's on thing to tank when you know a potential GOAT is coming along, which everyone knew with Tim Duncan, it's another to tank in weak drafts with unproven high school players. No one knew Garnett or Kobe would turn out as they did and they mostly don't.

Philly is tanking to get mediocre players or players with very risky prospects.

The old school way to win is to build a strong team with a strong concept and a strong identity, then you look to add the one missing piece who can get it done. Plug and Play. You can't just flip a switch and say start winning, without considering the base of the team and the chemistry.

Bird did a fantastic job with the Pacers in building that core around David West and PG, while letting the team and it's defensive effort be the identity. He even made Roy Hibbert and All Star because of it and they came very close to the finals.


LOL...the old school way is lucking into all time great players.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win because you can't fluke it.

You really think teams are just giving up all time great players to the Sixers...a team that had basically no trade assets before Hinkie came? How are the Sixers getting all these really good vets you speak of? Who wants to go to a team with Jrue, Evan Turner, Thad Young, Elton Brand, Iggy, Hawes, and Lou Williams...or whatever mediocre team they had? You think that is a superstar destination in free agency? Sorry, not happening.

I don't see your point...you say "look at who's won the title"

Okay...

Curry
Lebron
Dirk
Kobe
KG
Duncan
Shaq
MJ
Hakeem

And then you have the loaded 80's teams...

It almost always take an ATG player in his prime. Yea, you have a few exceptions, but the Spurs were able to win in 14 in large part because of Duncan (who they drafted) and Leonard (who they basically drafted with the Hill trade)

The Pistons had certain players in place that could actually contribute to winning a title. Who, other than Iggy, are you confident in on those Sixers teams that could play big roles on championship teams?

The Sixers had nothing like that on the roster before Hinkie arrived....trading for one wasn't happening in this environment...

So what do you want him to do? Just keep being a 45 win team in the East with no chance to win? You have to have some semblance of a building block to win titles...The sixers didn't have one so they rightfully cleared house. They are literally trying to do all the things you are saying it takes to win. So your points really fall flat here.

Morey got a superstar and then made a move for Howard. Two guys that actually fit well together. The Rockets teams have actually been pretty well built. You are being such a prisoner of the moment here...and it really doesn't speak to anything other than Harden playing absolutely awful right now.

If you switched Harden and Curry right now...the Warriors would be a much worse team than the Rockets...that is how bad Harden has been...and this coming off last season in which the two were basically equals in the regular season.

Both franchises are trying their best to win titles...I like that approach a lot more than what a team like the Pelicans did...

[JtotheIzzo]

Morey's assembled a great roster. better than anything Houston would have done otherwise, not sure where the hate is coming from...

[game3524]

LOL...the old school way is lucking into all time great players.

The NBA title is the hardest title to win because you can't fluke it.

You really think teams are just giving up all time great players to the Sixers...a team that had basically no trade assets before Hinkie came? How are the Sixers getting all these really good vets you speak of? Who wants to go to a team with Jrue, Evan Turner, Thad Young, Elton Brand, Iggy, Hawes, and Lou Williams...or whatever mediocre team they had? You think that is a superstar destination in free agency? Sorry, not happening.

I don't see your point...you say "look at who's won the title"

Okay...

Curry
Lebron
Dirk
Kobe
KG
Duncan
Shaq
MJ
Hakeem

And then you have the loaded 80's teams...

It almost always take an ATG player in his prime. Yea, you have a few exceptions, but the Spurs were able to win in 14 in large part because of Duncan (who they drafted) and Leonard (who they basically drafted with the Hill trade)

The Pistons had certain players in place that could actually contribute to winning a title. Who, other than Iggy, are you confident in on those Sixers teams that could play big roles on championship teams?

The Sixers had nothing like that on the roster before Hinkie arrived....trading for one wasn't happening in this environment...

So what do you want him to do? Just keep being a 45 win team in the East with no chance to win? You have to have some semblance of a building block to win titles...The sixers didn't have one so they rightfully cleared house. They are literally trying to do all the things you are saying it takes to win. So your points really fall flat here.

Morey got a superstar and then made a move for Howard. Two guys that actually fit well together. The Rockets teams have actually been pretty well built. You are being such a prisoner of the moment here...and it really doesn't speak to anything other than Harden playing absolutely awful right now.

If you switched Harden and Curry right now...the Warriors would be a much worse team than the Rockets...that is how bad Harden has been...and this coming off last season in which the two were basically equals in the regular season.

Both franchises are trying their best to win titles...I like that approach a lot more than what a team like the Pelicans did...

Bingo.

The Sixers spent the majority of the early post Iverson years being a treadmill team. They had a ton of talent from 2008-12, but no legitimate franchise player that could get them over the hump.

Hinkie isn't a god, but at least he realizes that being middle of the pack is the worst place to be in the NBA.

[DMAVS41]

Bingo.

The Sixers spent the majority of the early post Iverson years being a treadmill team. They had a ton of talent from 2008-12, but no legitimate franchise player that could get them over the hump.

Hinkie isn't a god, but at least he realizes that being mid of the pack is the worst place to be in the NBA.

Right, and you weren't getting one either unless it was through the draft. It was some pretty good talent...I'd hesitate calling it "a ton"...it wasn't good enough to attract a legit franchise player

[game3524]

Right, and you weren't getting one either unless it was through the draft. It was some pretty good talent...I'd hesitate calling it "a ton"...it wasn't good enough to attract a legit franchise player

We attracted Brand.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

We attracted Brand.:oldlol:

:pimp:

[Phantom_Blue]

Too bad you can't measure "Heart" and "Chemistry" with analytics, though I'm sure they'll try.

[SwishSquared]

Too bad you can't measure "Heart" and "Chemistry" with analytics, though I'm sure they'll try.76ers actually have an "effort" rating comprised of like 5 traits to measure how hard guys are playing.

[I<3NBA]

Too bad you can't measure "Heart" and "Chemistry" with analytics, though I'm sure they'll try.
you can measure chemistry, wtf are you talking about?

on and off court differentials with different team mates on the floor. for example, James and TT have chemistry. their stats both improve when they're together on the floor.

"heart" can be measured with hustle plays, work pace (distance ran on the court), ability to lead a comeback (can be measured by scoring those guys on the floor leading a comeback)

almost anything you can think of can be measured by thinking up a tangible equivalent that you can measure.

[Phantom_Blue]

you can measure chemistry, wtf are you talking about?

on and off court differentials with different team mates on the floor. for example, James and TT have chemistry. their stats both improve when they're together on the floor.

"heart" can be measured with hustle plays, work pace (distance ran on the court), ability to lead a comeback (can be measured by scoring those guys on the floor leading a comeback)

almost anything you can think of can be measured by thinking up a tangible equivalent that you can measure.

Lol, no, or yes, if you were joking.

[dhsilv]

If we look back at champs the last 20 years, who has won it?

Bird Celtics
Magic Lakers
MJ Bulls
Duncan Spurs
Hakeem Rockets

Bad Boy Pistons
Bad Boy Pistons 00 edition
3 and Chuck Warriors
Pop Spurs
Shaq Lakers
Shaq Miami
Veteran Celtics
Collude Miami

One thing becomes clear. The only teams who won through drafting was those who drafted a top 10 GOAT.

Literally, those teams who drafted players and stuck with them only won if they lucked out and drafted a top 10 GOAT.

The rest of the teams won through creating a winning environment which other players wanted to join and making good offseason moves (Celtics, Miami, Lakers) or through creating a strong team identity based on defense and deference to the team concept.

This idea that you can draft value and wheel and deal until you have just the right pieces doesn't seem to have any proof behind it.

It's on thing to tank when you know a potential GOAT is coming along, which everyone knew with Tim Duncan, it's another to tank in weak drafts with unproven high school players. No one knew Garnett or Kobe would turn out as they did and they mostly don't.

Philly is tanking to get mediocre players or players with very risky prospects.

The old school way to win is to build a strong team with a strong concept and a strong identity, then you look to add the one missing piece who can get it done. Plug and Play. You can't just flip a switch and say start winning, without considering the base of the team and the chemistry.

Bird did a fantastic job with the Pacers in building that core around David West and PG, while letting the team and it's defensive effort be the identity. He even made Roy Hibbert and All Star because of it and they came very close to the finals.

The celtics were built on drafting, trading, and cap manipulation.

The heat and an elite player and used the cap and contracts to their advantage to get 3 stars.

Bull drafted Pippen and Jordan (though somewhat of a different era)

Lakers are the lakers....that was about being in an elite market. Something the two GM's you're being critical of were not in.

Spurs drafted Duncan. They are the post boys of analytics, but they got their guy after one year of tanking. It just worked well for them. Ever since they've been stashing draft picks over seas, playing hte long game which keeps paying off and nobody complains because they have Duncan.

Mavs are huge into analtics. The Kidd trade was 100% done through Mark Cuban's secrete formulas. They also drafted dirk.

Teams are built through having a top level draft pick and/or having trade pieces and cap room. Both of these guys have done very good jobs based on the information we have.

[dhsilv]

Too bad you can't measure "Heart" and "Chemistry" with analytics, though I'm sure they'll try.

You act like these guys don't watch basketball tape or don't know the game....I"m not sure anyone alive watches more than Hinkie from everything I hear about the guy. Hell he'll fly to europe to watch a guy if he's interested.

[Phantom_Blue]

You act like these guys don't watch basketball tape or don't know the game....I"m not sure anyone alive watches more than Hinkie from everything I hear about the guy. Hell he'll fly to europe to watch a guy if he's interested.


That stuff is developed as player's get to know each other day by day. There's things you can't evaluate because we don't what the **** will happen in people's lives as they, you know, live and get new experiences.

But humans stay fearing uncertainty and try bottling up everything in the world into a stat.

[oarabbus]

F.uck Hinkie and fu.ck the Sixers.

Morey, has actually done a decent job. They went from a treadmill purgatory team to a WCF contender in just a few short years. IMO Harden and Dwight are not the guys to get you to the ship but Morey has done a good job regardless.

Hinkie on the other hand is a garbage ass GM who couldn't draft a turd into a toilet.

[dhsilv]

That stuff is developed as player's get to know each other day by day. There's things you can't evaluate because we don't what the **** will happen in people's lives as they, you know, live and get new experiences.

But humans stay fearing uncertainty and try bottling up everything in the world into a stat.

The thing is nobody on the current team is of any meaning to the team he wants to build, maybe and I mean maybe 2 guys. He's trying to grow assets.

OK so a very simple math lesson here

The biggest and more important concept in finance is the time value of money.

So simple idea here. An asset worth 100 today with an expected return of 10% is worth 133.1 in 3 years.

Now most GM's are given the mission to maximize assets in a 0-1 year period. Hinkie has gotten the green light to look I'd guess at least 3 years down the road. So he's rightly looking to make trades worth more in 1 years than they are worth today. So you trade a first pick today that's the 15th pick for a pick you EXPECT To be a top 8 in 2 years. Both teams see this is a possible win because one team needs a guy today. The other wants more value in 3 years.

Now this doesn't mean he doesn't get what chemistry is, and if you look at morey he goes out of his way to look for chemistry guys and checks with his two "star" players (your call on if they are, I'm not fighting) on if guys will fit. Hinkie isn't an idiot he knows what his players matter WHEN he is ready to build that team.

For now he'd rather have 2 second round picks down the road than one today. He wants to draft guys who have "high profile nba bodies" and then train them to shoot 3's so he can sell them for a positive return, and by pushing the return down the road he gets more of that time value of money add.

This is all brilliant if he can land a legit franchise player. Until he gets that guy...he's just pushing assets down the line and trading for more value down the line.

The spurs have done this for years, but they had Duncan so nobody cared.

[dhsilv]

F.uck Hinkie and fu.ck the Sixers.

Morey, has actually done a decent job. They went from a treadmill purgatory team to a WCF contender in just a few short years. IMO Harden and Dwight are not the guys to get you to the ship but Morey has done a good job regardless.

Hinkie on the other hand is a garbage ass GM who couldn't draft a turd into a toilet.

ok mr drunk robot. What moves would you do differently if you were him? You even get hindsight to do I told you so's. Or if you're really a man and know your stuff grade each of his trades/draft picks. I'd be interested to know why he's SO bad. I can't think of a single move that was terrible. He's missed a few times but that happens to everyone. The Spurs added Richard Jefferson after all. And then resigned him!

[Fallen Angel]

Too bad you can't measure "Heart" and "Chemistry" with analytics, though I'm sure they'll try.
Cowherd said this :lol

Be original :lol

[SwishSquared]

F.uck Hinkie and fu.ck the Sixers.

Morey, has actually done a decent job. They went from a treadmill purgatory team to a WCF contender in just a few short years. IMO Harden and Dwight are not the guys to get you to the ship but Morey has done a good job regardless.

Hinkie on the other hand is a garbage ass GM who couldn't draft a turd into a toilet.Difference is that Philly ownership allowed a complete tear down, while Les Alexander prohibited it in Houston. Also, Hinkie was the Assistant GM in Houston when they made that Harden trade. Philly's owner passed on hiring him, decided to give his current FO one more season in power, and they subsequently completed the Bynum trade. Philly's owner realized how badly they botched that and hired Hinkie the next summer.

Hinkie has destroyed teams in trades. It's fair to question his drafting ability. He hasn't had a chance to land a stud in free agency or trade. He's following the Houston script, only he hasn't had a mandate to be a fringe playoff team.

Hinkie needs to show progress next summer though imo. That has more to do with his performance in the draft, dependent upon which picks convey, and if any of his current players shows improvement through the season.

[dhsilv]

Difference is that Philly ownership allowed a complete tear down, while Les Alexander prohibited it in Houston. Also, Hinkie was the Assistant GM in Houston when they made that Harden trade. Philly's owner passed on hiring him, decided to give his current FO one more season in power, and they subsequently completed the Bynum trade. Philly's owner realized how badly they botched that and hired Hinkie the next summer.

Hinkie has destroyed teams in trades. It's fair to question his drafting ability. He hasn't had a chance to land a stud in free agency or trade. He's following the Houston script, only he hasn't had a mandate to be a fringe playoff team.

Hinkie needs to show progress next summer though imo. That has more to do with his performance in the draft, dependent upon which picks convey, and if any of his current players shows improvement through the season.

I forget the details but Hinkie came in and he didn't even have first round draft picks! I think their next two or two of the next few 1 st round picks were traded. They had no major trade pieces and a team that could only make the playoffs with basically CRAP to compete with.

Now they could have up to 4 first round picks in NEXT year's draft.

This is one of the greatest turn arounds we've ever seen in sports if he can just land TWO legit all stars. Nobody has ever been handed a team worse off from a title or bust senario maybe in pro sports history. Had he been given a team that couldn't win a game, he'd have gotten a top pick normally. Here he had NOTHING.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Another thing about Hinkie is he knows he doesn't have any secret 'advanced scouting statistics' when it comes to drafting, it's just about accumulating picks and hoping some of them hit.

"We will not bat a thousand on every single draft pick. We also have them by the bushelful, in part, because of that. We don't have any hubris that we will get them all right. We're not certain that we have an enormous edge over anybody else. In some cases, we might not have an edge at all." (http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-hinkie-explains-sixers-tanking-plan-2015-2)

[PsychoBe]

That stuff is developed as player's get to know each other day by day. There's things you can't evaluate because we don't what the **** will happen in people's lives as they, you know, live and get new experiences.

But humans stay fearing uncertainty and try bottling up everything in the world into a stat.

soul eater is a bottom-tier anime aside from black star you should watch hunter x hunter 2011 literally the best anime ever made (actually it's second behind brotherhood)

[Penny37]

I forget the details but Hinkie came in and he didn't even have first round draft picks! I think their next two or two of the next few 1 st round picks were traded. They had no major trade pieces and a team that could only make the playoffs with basically CRAP to compete with.

Now they could have up to 4 first round picks in NEXT year's draft.

This is one of the greatest turn arounds we've ever seen in sports if he can just land TWO legit all stars. Nobody has ever been handed a team worse off from a title or bust senario maybe in pro sports history. Had he been given a team that couldn't win a game, he'd have gotten a top pick normally. Here he had NOTHING.
If you honestly think what Hinkie is doing is good for the game of basketball then you are wrong. He can get by with doing what he's doing because of revenue sharing but it is terrible for the sport.

How long will the Sixers continue to play for the lottery? They won't be sniffing the playoffs for years to come. They're 2 years away from being 2 years away from being a playoff team; EVEN IN THE EAST!

Absolutely ridiculous.

[SwishSquared]

If you honestly think what Hinkie is doing is good for the game of basketball then you are wrong. He can get by with doing what he's doing because of revenue sharing but it is terrible for the sport.

How long will the Sixers continue to play for the lottery? They won't be sniffing the playoffs for years to come. They're 2 years away from being 2 years away from being a playoff team; EVEN IN THE EAST!

Absolutely ridiculous.Philly receives no cut from revenue sharing. That's a myth. It's considered too large of a market to receive payouts. He's managing costs by barely being above the salary floor every season. Their local TV deal is not great so even if they were title contenders this season they wouldn't be raking in as much TV money as you'd expect.

[SwishSquared]

I forget the details but Hinkie came in and he didn't even have first round draft picks! I think their next two or two of the next few 1 st round picks were traded. They had no major trade pieces and a team that could only make the playoffs with basically CRAP to compete with.

Now they could have up to 4 first round picks in NEXT year's draft.

This is one of the greatest turn arounds we've ever seen in sports if he can just land TWO legit all stars. Nobody has ever been handed a team worse off from a title or bust senario maybe in pro sports history. Had he been given a team that couldn't win a game, he'd have gotten a top pick normally. Here he had NOTHING.Yeah they owed a 2014 lotto protected pick to the Heat (ended up being sent to Boston in the Joel Anthony trade). It converted into 2015 & 2016 unprotected 2nd rounders, but Hinkie has garnered so much 2nd round picks from other clubs he mitigated that fallout. Tanking ensured the first wouldn't convey.

They also owed a 2016 (I think, though maybe it was 2017) pick to Orlando that had low protections on it. He got that one back in the Payton/Saric trade.

He's potentially got a lot of ammo in terms of picks & young guys to dangle as trade bait or he can keep trying to hit on his own picks. He's done an incredible job of compiling picks. Unfortunately, most that conveyed have been 2nd rounders, which are shots in the dark for turning out to be rotation players on a winning team.

[SwishSquared]

Another thing about Hinkie is he knows he doesn't have any secret 'advanced scouting statistics' when it comes to drafting, it's just about accumulating picks and hoping some of them hit.

"We will not bat a thousand on every single draft pick. We also have them by the bushelful, in part, because of that. We don't have any hubris that we will get them all right. We're not certain that we have an enormous edge over anybody else. In some cases, we might not have an edge at all." (http://www.businessinsider.com/sam-hinkie-explains-sixers-tanking-plan-2015-2)Yeah I remember something like they think there's a few select potential game changers and then the next big chunk of guys have relatively same shot at being good. Then an even broader range of picks are seen as having similar potential to be good players (like late teens to early 30s). I thought they quoted Hinkie or somebody on the 76ers for saying that, although I don't agree with that.

[dhsilv]

If you honestly think what Hinkie is doing is good for the game of basketball then you are wrong. He can get by with doing what he's doing because of revenue sharing but it is terrible for the sport.

How long will the Sixers continue to play for the lottery? They won't be sniffing the playoffs for years to come. They're 2 years away from being 2 years away from being a playoff team; EVEN IN THE EAST!

Absolutely ridiculous.

He's been doing this for 2 years. They haven't even had the worst record in that period. The product THIS year is actually pretty watchable.

He has taken 3 guys who he didn't expect to play in their first year. Not because he wanted to be bad, but because he felt the had the most upside possible. If that's bad for the sport...well the sport isn't worth watching if THAT is some crime.

Teams that constantly put themselves in positions where they can't possibly win, that hurts the sport. Signing crappy players to long term deals, hurts the sport. A team trying to win it all through long term strategic planning? This is a freaking breath of fresh air!

[MiseryCityTexas]

Dwight at center is a hell of a lot better than 6'6 Chuck Hayes starting at center:oldlol: Morey came along way.

[DMAVS41]

He's been doing this for 2 years. They haven't even had the worst record in that period. The product THIS year is actually pretty watchable.

He has taken 3 guys who he didn't expect to play in their first year. Not because he wanted to be bad, but because he felt the had the most upside possible. If that's bad for the sport...well the sport isn't worth watching if THAT is some crime.

Teams that constantly put themselves in positions where they can't possibly win, that hurts the sport. Signing crappy players to long term deals, hurts the sport. A team trying to win it all through long term strategic planning? This is a freaking breath of fresh air!

Exactly...he's doing the best job within these stupid rules. We shouldn't reward teams that try to lose on purpose, but we do. And because we do...what he's doing is super smart.

Why aren't people going hard on the Pelicans? Dumb signing after dumb signing...one of the worst trades in NBA history both in form and function.

What the Pelicans have done is far worse than the Sixers because they actually have a top 5 player in the game to build around...and they completely ****ed that up...at least for now.

[HurricaneKid]

If you honestly think what Hinkie is doing is good for the game of basketball then you are wrong. He can get by with doing what he's doing because of revenue sharing but it is terrible for the sport.


I'm pretty sure the NBA doesn't allow large market teams access to profit sharing distributions and that includes Philly. Now if you mean they get their share of the TV rights deals, well of course.

And what is good for the game is immaterial to Hinkie. He is doing what is good for the 76ers.

[HurricaneKid]

Why aren't people going hard on the Pelicans? Dumb signing after dumb signing...one of the worst trades in NBA history both in form and function.


The problem I DO have with Hinkie was his handling of Jrue (not disclosing a serious injury when trading a player), his dealings with agents and Kirilenko have also raised some eyebrows. He is really going to have some issues getting players to go to Philly even when they do start to turn the corner as his rep is that he will trade anyone at any time if the right deal comes up and he will break his word for a nickel. In a players league, thats not going to cut it.

[DMAVS41]

The problem I DO have with Hinkie was his handling of Jrue (not disclosing a serious injury when trading a player), his dealings with agents and Kirilenko have also raised some eyebrows. He is really going to have some issues getting players to go to Philly even when they do start to turn the corner as his rep is that he will trade anyone at any time if the right deal comes up and he will break his word for a nickel. In a players league, thats not going to cut it.

We'll see...gonna be hard for players to turn down more money...regardless of situation.

[Nastradamus]

These guys and their 'advanced value drafting' are the most overrated people in the game.

What has Morey done for all his praise, he has a 8 baby momma center with zero post moves and he has lazy no d shooting guard.

Wow! Such general managing.

The same with Hinkie, now for the third year putting out abysmal basketball and betting on a guy who will be Oden 2.0 while his draft picks Noel and Okafor are hardly world beaters and his other draft pick Carter-Williams chokes it up for another club.

These so called 'modern' General Managers are pure crap. They have literally won NOTHING with their tank job and 'best value' mentality.

All the while old school guys like Popovich and Jerry West put together world beating teams out of role players.

Lol just lol at thinking the tank and draft mentality will get you anywhere.

Morey has been pretty good. Makes the playoffs just about every year and was a 2 seed in the WCF finals last year. Also obtained the MVP runner up in trade. Has a lot of depth on his roster as well. Should be fine with the coaching change IMO. Lawson needs to be 6th man permanently though.

Still remains to be seen on Hinkie obviously. Noel and Okafor looks like studs IMO. Noel is the best defensive big in the league and Okafor has rare post ability, though a limited all around game. 2 stud bigs is a nice foundation. They have a few young shooters as well. Next year is their big offseason. 3 firsts, Saric coming over and a bunch of cap space. Time to start building a real roster. Embiid set them back,but it was a pick they HAD to make IMO.

If they get Simmons, look out league. The boy from Kentucky would be pretty sick too.

[HurricaneKid]

We'll see...gonna be hard for players to turn down more money...regardless of situation.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Bunches of guys turned down more money with Sac, etc to play elsewhere.

And its a capped league so the guys you want are getting below their fair market value and have lines of teams begging for their services. Greg Monroe had at least 6 teams offering him the max and he barely moves the needle (and I'm a Bucks fan).

Can they get an MLE player for 12M? Maybe, but that goes against everything Hinkie stands for.

[DMAVS41]

Then you haven't been paying attention. Bunches of guys turned down more money with Sac, etc to play elsewhere.

And its a capped league so the guys you want are getting below their fair market value and have lines of teams begging for their services. Greg Monroe had at least 6 teams offering him the max and he barely moves the needle (and I'm a Bucks fan).

Can they get an MLE player for 12M? Maybe, but that goes against everything Hinkie stands for.

I'm talking about when they get good....or when they show promise. They are going to have both. Loads of cap space and a bright future...it's going to be hard for players to turn that down over some beef about Hinkie not disclosing an injury or something.

LOL...they just won't care more than getting paid and going to a team with a bright future.

Monroe is a great example actually...you think he's turning the Bucks down because of Jason Kidd's shady history? LOL...it's not happening.

The middling players? They'll always be able to get guys like that. They can overpay guys like Aminu...and they'll take the money more often than not. I was talking about true move the needle type guys like Monroe...and yes...of course how good the team is matters. You can't sign those guys currently on Philly so it's not relevant.

[SwishSquared]

Then you haven't been paying attention. Bunches of guys turned down more money with Sac, etc to play elsewhere.

And its a capped league so the guys you want are getting below their fair market value and have lines of teams begging for their services. Greg Monroe had at least 6 teams offering him the max and he barely moves the needle (and I'm a Bucks fan).

Can they get an MLE player for 12M? Maybe, but that goes against everything Hinkie stands for.If Bulls didn't make a max qualifying offer to Butler, he was gonna take a meeting with the 76ers for any sort of contract he wanted.

Agents are mad @ Hinkie for his typical 4-year deal given to scrap heap guys and 2nd round draft picks. They got angry at him for getting rid of guys who won't take that deal (KJ McDaniels & Tokoto are the main examples). They're also mad that he will refuse to meet with some middling guys that make little sense on Philly's roster because the agent wants to use him as leverage.

The Kirilenko deal was shady but you have to blame Billy King, too. It seems he made promises to AK that Philly didn't agree to. Don't always trust the Nets' sources, considering they've been throwing shade @ Philly's FO for a while. Philly didn't want to buy-out/waive Danny Granger mid-season after Indy salary dumped him, but honored his request. They gave Furkan Aldemir $6M guaranteed after his overseas club went bankrupt essentially (he can only set screens and gather some OREBs) just because he has the same agent as Saric.

The Jrue stuff was reprehensible, though. Very unclassy move and displayed poor ethics imo.

The only guy that truly made sense in UFA/RFA for them (that realistically wouldn't have been matched by his team) was Corey Joseph imo. They got Kendall Marshall for 4 years with total cost a bit more than CoJo's annual salary with Toronto, which they thought provided better flexibility (not to mention only 1 guaranteed year).

[DMAVS41]

If Bulls didn't make a max qualifying offer to Butler, he was gonna take a meeting with the 76ers for any sort of contract he wanted.

Agents are mad @ Hinkie for his typical 4-year deal given to scrap heap guys and 2nd round draft picks. They got angry at him for getting rid of guys who won't take that deal (KJ McDaniels & Tokoto are the main examples). They're also mad that he will refuse to meet with some middling guys that make little sense on Philly's roster because the agent wants to use him as leverage.

The Kirilenko deal was shady but you have to blame Billy King, too. It seems he made promises to AK that Philly didn't agree to. Don't always trust the Nets' sources, considering they've been throwing shade @ Philly's FO for a while. Philly didn't want to buy-out/waive Danny Granger mid-season after Indy salary dumped him, but honored his request. They gave Furkan Aldemir $6M guaranteed after his overseas club went bankrupt essentially (he can only set screens and gather some OREBs) just because he has the same agent as Saric.

The Jrue stuff was reprehensible, though. Very unclassy move and displayed poor ethics imo.

The only guy that truly made sense in UFA/RFA for them (that realistically wouldn't have been matched by his team) was Corey Joseph imo. They got Kendall Marshall for 4 years with total cost a bit more than CoJo's annual salary with Toronto, which they thought provided better flexibility (not to mention only 1 guaranteed year).

And if they show promise starting these next 2 years like the Bucks had going into this year. Very few players/agents are going to hold a big enough grudge over this stuff...especially not players...to turn down big money from a team that has a clear cut bright future.

The shit Hinkie has done...while I understand the arguments against the ethics in some cases...has not been bad enough to cost them "needle moving free agents" down the road.

We'll see though...I just seriously doubt it.

[IncarceratedBob]

Rockets are in an awful spot. They're not good enough to win anything and yet they're good enough to be in the playoffs year in and year out which essentially takes them out of the running to get an elite player which is necessary to win it all

[SwishSquared]

And if they show promise starting these next 2 years like the Bucks had going into this year. Very few players/agents are going to hold a big enough grudge over this stuff...especially not players...to turn down big money from a team that has a clear cut bright future.

The shit Hinkie has done...while I understand the arguments against the ethics in some cases...has not been bad enough to cost them "needle moving free agents" down the road.

We'll see though...I just seriously doubt it.Exactly. If you they draft or trade for a couple promising guys and the entire outlook of the team shifts from "tanking" to "rising upstart," FAs will overlook the rough years where they bottomed out. Their coaching staff and trainers don't have a bad reputation at all, amongst players. Didn't Foster go from serving as the big man development coach in Philly to being one of Kidd's top aids on the Bucks? He's gotten lots of credit from smart NBA folks for his defensive schemes in Milwaukee.

Sacramento has had guys back out/refuse to accept their deal (Wes Matthews most recently) because the front office and ownership project that they have no clue what they're doing. Hinkie has his Houston tenure to at least lean on and Brett Brown was Pop's 2nd most important assistant iirc behind Bud.

I'm typically a defender of Hinkie and his moves, but he did hide the fact for weeks that Embiid rebroke his navicular bone. That defused some of the blame from Embiid though, so he at least helped out his own guy.

He hasn't done enough to warrant such a bad reputation that people he wants won't take his money when the team is good imo. I could be way off but I don't have that impression. Other GMs, however, will be much more cautious to trade with him in the future based on how much praise he's earned with fleecing guys and the Jrue stuff.

[DMAVS41]

Rockets are in an awful spot. They're not good enough to win anything and yet they're good enough to be in the playoffs year in and year out which essentially takes them out of the running to get an elite player which is necessary to win it all

Nah...they have a superstar in Harden. That is never going to be an awful spot.

An awful spot is when you don't have a superstar and are a fringe playoff team.

The Rockets can do a ton to this roster coming up soon...

They can just waive Lawson if things don't work out...so they can free up money that way.

Howard is likely going to become a free agent...so they can move on from him if they don't want him.

Ariza, Brewer, Beverly, Cappella, Harrell, and Dekker are all on good contracts. And out of those6...Ariza, Brewer, and Beverly are all solid players that can play real roles on a contending team.

So they'll actually have a lot cap room to work with if they want.

Also, depending on how this year goes and whether or not DMO and Terrance Jones are in their future...they could trade them in a deal at the deadline for something.

More seems pretty damn smart. If this team doesn't turn it around...he's going to make major changes...and he's built a team that makes that possible...while also remaining a playoff team because of Harden.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly. If you they draft or trade for a couple promising guys and the entire outlook of the team shifts from "tanking" to "rising upstart," FAs will overlook the rough years where they bottomed out. Their coaching staff and trainers don't have a bad reputation at all, amongst players. Didn't Foster go from serving as the big man development coach in Philly to being one of Kidd's top aids on the Bucks? He's gotten lots of credit from smart NBA folks for his defensive schemes in Milwaukee.

Sacramento has had guys back out/refuse to accept their deal (Wes Matthews most recently) because the front office and ownership project that they have no clue what they're doing. Hinkie has his Houston tenure to at least lean on and Brett Brown was Pop's 2nd most important assistant iirc behind Bud.

I'm typically a defender of Hinkie and his moves, but he did hide the fact for weeks that Embiid rebroke his navicular bone. That defused some of the blame from Embiid though, so he at least helped out his own guy.

He hasn't done enough to warrant such a bad reputation that people he wants won't take his money when the team is good imo. I could be way off but I don't have that impression. Other GMs, however, will be much more cautious to trade with him in the future based on how much praise he's earned with fleecing guys and the Jrue stuff.


Yea, but I think we underestimate the stupidity of other owners/gm's and the kind of time frame they are on.

I know the Kings are an easy target, but the Jrue trade didn't impact them from getting fleeced by Hinkie.

And what...some team is going to turn down Okafor? Some stupid gm/owner combo will see Okafor on the trade block and salivate at him...and give up way too much likely.

That is my point...I don't think Hinkie's reputation means much when he calls you up and says hey...give me the 2nd or 3rd pick and Jordan Clarkson (sign and trade) and I'll send you Okafor, Stuaskas, and an early 2nd rounder.

Not saying the Lakers do that and just came up with it, but you get the idea. If Russell has an awful year and fans are complaining about not drafting Okafor...and the Lakers keep their pick...a trade like that actually makes a lot of sense.

[SwishSquared]

Yea, but I think we underestimate the stupidity of other owners/gm's and the kind of time frame they are on.

I know the Kings are an easy target, but the Jrue trade didn't impact them from getting fleeced by Hinkie.

And what...some team is going to turn down Okafor? Some stupid gm/owner combo will see Okafor on the trade block and salivate at him...and give up way too much likely.

That is my point...I don't think Hinkie's reputation means much when he calls you up and says hey...give me the 2nd or 3rd pick and Jordan Clarkson (sign and trade) and I'll send you Okafor, Stuaskas, and an early 2nd rounder.

Not saying the Lakers do that and just came up with it, but you get the idea. If Russell has an awful year and fans are complaining about not drafting Okafor...and the Lakers keep their pick...a trade like that actually makes a lot of sense.There are still dumb GMs for him to prey on, I meant more that after the Kings trade, teams will probably call up somebody else who may be interested in being a salary dump destination. For example, Portland absorbed Haywood + Mike Miller when Philly made sense, too. I bet Hinkie demanded the rights to Cedi Osman (Saric's teammate in Turkey coincidentally) to make that deal. He'll experience diminishing returns most likely in trying to execute the same moves.

Hinkie has the right players that he can trade them and get a great return still. Like you said, some GM is gonna probably salivate @ Okafor. It's a big reason why I think Okafor will be dealt by opening night next season. They took him knowing he'd likely maintain trade value, or maybe even increase, after his rookie year.

He hasn't done something so bad teams or agents won't return his calls if he has an attractive enough of an offer. I'd expect him to be more offensive in FA and in trades in next 12 months than he's shown in the past 2+ years. That SAC pick swap will allow him to potentially try to increase the talent level exponentially next season, especially if we assume Boogie gets moved. In fact, it makes a ton of sense for SAC, if they move Boogie, attempt to get Philly involved as a 3rd team to help gain back their future draft assets. Which is so LOL worthy.

Bucher, whom I don't trust, reported today that Vivek is planning to make Calipari an offer he can't refuse next summer. Which is part of the reason he took WCS at #6 lolol.