the value of clutch

[BlueandGold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnHyhCYOgTI

Mariano Rivera has built a hof career on it, in baseball arguably the last three outs are harder than the first 15.

[dhsilv]

As we all know there's not really evidence in someone being "clutch".

Now what Kobe does or at least did extremely well was create space to get good shots off. That was by far his greatest strength when the clock was winding down and a HUGE value for the lakers have his career.

[SouBeachTalents]

I'd never dispute Rivera being the GOAT closer, but dude has imo the biggest choke by a closer in MLB history ('01 World Series Game 7), and also blew another save (2004 ALCS Game 4) that helped set up the biggest choke in MLB history, if not sports history. Those are two huge blemishes on his resume, yet I've never heard him criticized for either of them ever

[Gileraracer]

Clutch is something in your head. If you are mentally weak you will be afraid to take the last, game deciding, shot and therefore probably miss it. But if you take it with confindence it will fall as good as all your other shots.


That's why often the so called "Alphas" are also considered clutch. They aren't afraid to decide the game. And that's also why Lebron is bad in clutch moments.

[ClipperRevival]

Clutch is something in your head. If you are mentally weak you will be afraid to take the last, game deciding, shot and therefore probably miss it. But if you take it with confindence it will fall as good as all your other shots.


That's why often the so called "Alphas" are also considered clutch. They aren't afraid to decide the game. And that's also why Lebron is bad in clutch moments.

Somewhat true. It's about not being afraid of the moment and just playing the game as you normally would instead of over thinking (Peyton Manning or CP3). All the clutch players look forward to the crucial moments. If not look forward to them, just accept them. You choke when you over think or just don't feel comfortable in those situations. And that's why the guys who come through in those moments should be recognized as should the ones who don't.

[ClipperRevival]

As we all know there's not really evidence in someone being "clutch".

Now what Kobe does or at least did extremely well was create space to get good shots off. That was by far his greatest strength when the clock was winding down and a HUGE value for the lakers have his career.

Yes there is. It's called eyes.

[ShawkFactory]

I'd never dispute Rivera being the GOAT closer, but dude has imo the biggest choke by a closer in MLB history ('01 World Series Game 7), and also blew another save (2004 ALCS Game 4) that helped set up the biggest choke in MLB history, if not sports history. Those are two huge blemishes on his resume, yet I've never heard him criticized for either of them ever
That's because of the 150 other huge saves he did convert. And that includes several 4, 5, or even 6 out saves; something that's unheard of these days unless your name is Bumgarner.

The stakes are higher for a closer, especially in the playoffs. One tiny slip-up (which happens to literally everyone) could mean a title. One bloop over the second baseman's head. One play the 3rd baseman should have made but didn't. One missed call by the ump. Anything can drastically change the course of the game, especially if its a one run lead.

Nothing in basketball can equate.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Somewhat true. It's about not being afraid of the moment and just playing the game as you normally would instead of over thinking (Peyton Manning or CP3). All the clutch players look forward to the crucial moments. If not look forward to them, just accept them. You choke when you over think or just don't feel comfortable in those situations. And that's why the guys who come through in those moments should be recognized as should the ones who don't.
Yet you can still be statistically clutch even if you do feel uncomfortable in those situations.

What goes through your head during those moments is irrelevant, only the results matter.

Look at kobe for instance, he's one of the most un-clutch players ever... yet gets praised for being fearless in clutch moments.

I'd wager the nervous thinking guys are actually more reliable and clutch because they go through the details in their head and kinda psychology put themselves in a back against the wall scenario. Humans tend to perform better when they're on the edge like that.

LeBron reminds me of Bill Russell the way he gets nervous and over-thinks everything. That's why he's the best player though. Guys who get nervous are more clutch.

[ClipperRevival]

Yet you can still be statistically clutch even if you do feel uncomfortable in those situations.

What goes through your head during those moments is irrelevant, only the results matter.

Look at kobe for instance, he's one of the most un-clutch players ever... yet gets praised for being fearless in clutch moments.

I'd wager the nervous thinking guys are actually more reliable and clutch because they go through the details in their head and kinda psychology put themselves in a back against the wall scenario. Humans tend to perform better when they're on the edge like that.

LeBron reminds me of Bill Russell the way he gets nervous and over-thinks everything. That's why he's the best player though. Guys who get nervous are more clutch.

It's one thing to realize the gravity of the moment but if you are unsure of yourself in that moment, most times you will fail. Like Bron in 2011 finals didn't want to be there. He wanted no part of the outcome. That tentativeness is what kills. Body language is real. Opponents can sense when a player has an extra bounce in their step or when he doesn't want the ball.

[ClipperRevival]

But at the same time, i do get your point about a guy like Kobe who can be too confident and tries to do too much. This comes back to playing the game the right way and finding a balance. But Kobe is one of the most clutch players ever. I don't care what the numbers say. Numbers can't measure clutchness. Only eyes can and seeing each game and situation for what it is.

[DMAVS41]

As we all know there's not really evidence in someone being "clutch".

Now what Kobe does or at least did extremely well was create space to get good shots off. That was by far his greatest strength when the clock was winding down and a HUGE value for the lakers have his career.

What? There definitely is. Certain guys are clearly not afraid of the moment when the games get close late. Certain guys can consistently perform better late in games when defenses really give it their all.

There is evidence both from watching and looking at the numbers.

[HenryGarfunkle]

It's one thing to realize the gravity of the moment but if you are unsure of yourself in that moment, most times you will fail. Like Bron in 2011 finals didn't want to be there. He wanted no part of the outcome. That tentativeness is what kills. Body language is real. Opponents can sense when a player has an extra bounce in their step or when he doesn't want the ball.
There have been plenty of times I've been unsure of myself in a game but actually end of playing my best basketball.

It's weird, I set my expectations for myself low and don't expect much but I make a couple plays and start exploding.

Same goes for baseball. I was constantly nervous when I'd play SS, but I rarely made a mistake.

The games I showed up calm and relaxed, I would lay an egg. We all handle things differently but at the end of the day it's the results that matter.

LeBron comes though more times than not, and statistically blows most guys out of the water in clutch situations. Guy is one of the most clutch passers I've ever seen too but that doesn't count for people on here. He plays his best defense in clutch moments. LeBron more times than not turns it on in big ways during crunch time. Always has, always will. One series doesn't change that.

Isn't he right behind Jordan for most game winning shots in the playoffs?

His playoff PER is 28. Kobes is like 22.

Not to turn this into Kobe vs Bron but he blows Kobe out of the water in clutch situations and overall playoff resume.

But kobe is fearless doe?!

[RRR3]

Clutch is something in your head. If you are mentally weak you will be afraid to take the last, game deciding, shot and therefore probably miss it. But if you take it with confindence it will fall as good as all your other shots.


That's why often the so called "Alphas" are also considered clutch. They aren't afraid to decide the game. And that's also why Lebron is bad in clutch moments.
Except LeBron isn't bad in clutch moments. You're basing this off a false narrative you've created to fit your retarded agenda.


No one even knows who you cheer for; you literally just post about LeBron, even when threads aren't about him :lol




Rent free.

[feyki]

Meaningless when one team dominating the game .

[knicksman]

if this is a book, there are players who focus on the cover(overrated statpadders) while others on the content. Those who focus on the content loves the harder part of the game while those who focus on the cover takes the easy way out. The content players love challenges. That ability to shoot over defenders is the biggest challenge and thats what they love doing. Or the ability to shoot beyond the 3pt line. Meanwhile the "cover" player only cares about stats so people would overrate them. They are the ones who takes fastbreak pts or easy layups. But what This gives you is just fake confidence that gets exposed come playoffs/finals times because you are not used to taking challenges. The "content" players on the other hand had been preparing for these kind of moments thats why they are confident when the time comes. They may have shitty FG% but thats because shooting over defenders is harder than a layup.

[knicksman]

There have been plenty of times I've been unsure of myself in a game but actually end of playing my best basketball.

It's weird, I set my expectations for myself low and don't expect much but I make a couple plays and start exploding.

Same goes for baseball. I was constantly nervous when I'd play SS, but I rarely made a mistake.

The games I showed up calm and relaxed, I would lay an egg. We all handle things differently but at the end of the day it's the results that matter.

LeBron comes though more times than not, and statistically blows most guys out of the water in clutch situations. Guy is one of the most clutch passers I've ever seen too but that doesn't count for people on here. He plays his best defense in clutch moments. LeBron more times than not turns it on in big ways during crunch time. Always has, always will. One series doesn't change that.

Isn't he right behind Jordan for most game winning shots in the playoffs?

His playoff PER is 28. Kobes is like 22.

Not to turn this into Kobe vs Bron but he blows Kobe out of the water in clutch situations and overall playoff resume.

But kobe is fearless doe?!

well then why is he 2/6 mr HenryGarfunkle?

[oarabbus]

stopped reading at 'baseball'

[Mr. Jabbar]

well then why is he 2/6 mr HenryGarfunkle?

:lol :lol

he was mind raped by kobe at a young age :oldlol:

[knicksman]

:lol :lol

he was mind raped by kobe at a young age :oldlol:

no wonder hes constantly nervous despite playing an easy game like baseball:oldlol:

[tmacattack33]

But at the same time, i do get your point about a guy like Kobe who can be too confident and tries to do too much. This comes back to playing the game the right way and finding a balance. But Kobe is one of the most clutch players ever. I don't care what the numbers say. Numbers can't measure clutchness. Only eyes can and seeing each game and situation for what it is.

Not really. If the stat is a good stat, i'll take the stat over some human's opinion any day.

The human won't be able to remember every clutch play a guy has had in his career...and he can also be biased (without even knowing it himself).

[dhsilv]

I'd never dispute Rivera being the GOAT closer, but dude has imo the biggest choke by a closer in MLB history ('01 World Series Game 7), and also blew another save (2004 ALCS Game 4) that helped set up the biggest choke in MLB history, if not sports history. Those are two huge blemishes on his resume, yet I've never heard him criticized for either of them ever

cause his stats are so out of this world you just can't?

Sure his value is less, but his dominance is about the best there is ever. The red sox seemed to have some guys who knew him well enough to hit him, but otherwise....I mean WOW. His playoff ERA is so absurd. Hell his regular reason ERA....he's got a deadball era ERA.

[dhsilv]

Yes there is. It's called eyes.

Man, eyes are biased and full of crap. What most people see and what kobe and MJ were great at is creating space. Even a guy like Horry how many times did he come through and how many times did he fail? Can you show meaningfully it was just him and not dumb luck?

3 shots fall differently and the shaq lakers win 1 title and not 3. Sometimes you just have the ball bounce the right way.