Can't stand it when people say Durant is at Dirk's level and will surpass him

[masonanddixon]

He's done nothing to indicate he's at Dirk's level and his resume isn't 5% of Dirk's.

Anyone who thinks he's in the same ballpark as Dirk doesn't know basketball and is a child.

[Naero]

Both have a regular-season MVP, a season in the all-exclusive 50-40-90 club, and several years of staggering production under their belts. What has Dirk accomplished at the same juncture of Kevin Durant's career (8th season) that the latter hasn't accomplished to create such a colossal gap again?

Obviously, Dirk's 2011 playoffs run—punctuated with his Finals MVP—has him locked into another tier legacy-wise for now, but Durant has the same ability to lead his team to a championship; it's just that the Oklahoma City MVP hasn't had the coaching and supporting cast needed to complement him and get over the hump, but that doesn't discount his individual impact.

Durant at least doesn't have any blemishes on his Finals legacy; in fact, he averaged 32 PPG on 54% field-goal percentage in his only Finals appearance to date and performed much better than most superstars have in their first respective appearances, whereas Dirk won despite shooting 41% in his only championship, which also 5 years after he shot roughly 40% in the 2006 NBA Finals as his team squandered a 2-0 lead—never going to cut it when your ancillary function is scoring.

There's no guarantee that Durant will ever collect the championship hardware needed to solidify the argument, but let's not overstate that deficit as if to controvert the notion that he doesn't have a breathing chance of eclipsing Dirk when he could only be one championship run—or even just another regular-season MVP or two—away from tying—if not surpassing—Dirk in the eyes of most scholars.

[Fallen Angel]

Through 9 seasons: http://bkref.com/tiny/MQ5ll

KD has 1 MVP.
Dirk has 1 MVP.

KD has 1 NBA Finals appearance.
Dirk has 1 NBA Finals appearance.

KD has 6 All-Star Game appearances (not counting 2016).
Dirk has 6 All-Star Game appearances (counting 2007).

KD led the league in scoring 4 times.
Dirk led the league in scoring 0 times.

KD made the All-NBA First Team 5 times.
Dirk made the All-NBA First Team 3 times (counting 2007).

Durant pretty much missed last season so he would have probably added one more All-NBA First Team award to his collection.

[masonanddixon]

[QUOTE=Naero]Both have a regular-season MVP, a season in the all-exclusive 50-40-90 club, and several years of staggering production under their belts. What has Dirk accomplished at the same juncture of Kevin Durant's career (8th season) that the latter hasn't accomplished to create such a colossal gap again?

Obviously, Dirk's 2011 playoffs run

[masonanddixon]

Through 9 seasons: http://bkref.com/tiny/MQ5ll

KD has 1 MVP.
Dirk has 1 MVP.

KD has 1 NBA Finals appearance.
Dirk has 1 NBA Finals appearance.

KD has 6 All-Star Game appearances (not counting 2016).
Dirk has 6 All-Star Game appearances (counting 2007).

KD led the league in scoring 4 times.
Dirk led the league in scoring 0 times.

KD made the All-NBA First Team 5 times.
Dirk made the All-NBA First Team 3 times (counting 2007).

Durant pretty much missed last season so he would have probably added one more All-NBA First Team award to his collection.

One guy went up against Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Garnett all in their primes.

The other guy goes up against all perimeter guys.

[Fallen Angel]

I hope OP isn't a sheep and thinks that just because the Mavs' record is better than the Thunder that it submits Dirk's legacy and he'll never be passed by Durant.

I don't know where this came from, but Durant has the higher potential for greatness. There's no question about it.

[masonanddixon]

I hope OP isn't a sheep and thinks that just because the Mavs' record is better than the Thunder that it submits Dirk's legacy and he'll never be passed by Durant.

I don't know where this came from, but Durant has the higher potential for greatness. There's no question about it.

The day Durant takes a starting 5 of past their primes Calderon, Monta, Dalembert, and Marion to the playoffs out West is the day he enters the conversation as being in Dirk's level.

[Fallen Angel]

Durant has been going head to head with Prime Lebron since 2012. Dirk never went head to head and got the better end of a Top 10 player that played the same position of him, that includes Duncan.

[FPJ]

Feel the same way when people claim Dirk is at Wade's level.

[theaussieguy]

Through 9 seasons: http://bkref.com/tiny/MQ5ll

KD has 1 MVP.
Dirk has 1 MVP.

KD has 1 NBA Finals appearance.
Dirk has 1 NBA Finals appearance.

KD has 6 All-Star Game appearances (not counting 2016).
Dirk has 6 All-Star Game appearances (counting 2007).

KD led the league in scoring 4 times.
Dirk led the league in scoring 0 times.

KD made the All-NBA First Team 5 times.
Dirk made the All-NBA First Team 3 times (counting 2007).

Durant pretty much missed last season so he would have probably added one more All-NBA First Team award to his collection.

Dirk has 2 NBA Final appearances actually

[Fallen Angel]

Do you not remember when led the Oklahoma City Thunder without Westbrook to 59 wins while winning the MVP award?

Derek Fisher | Reggie Jackson
Thabo Sefolosha | Jeremy Lamb
Kevin Durant
Serge Ibaka | Nick Collison
Kendrick Perkins | Steven Adams

Fifty-nine wins.
59 wins.
71.9% winning percentage

[masonanddixon]

Durant has been going head to head with Prime Lebron since 2012. Dirk never went head to head and got the better end of a Top 10 player that played the same position of him, that includes Duncan.

Hahaha what. He's outplayed Duncan and Garnett several times, as well as Webber, Bosh, Aldridge, Gasol, and a bunch of other elite power fowards all in their prime.

And the one time Dirk faced Lebron---what happened?

[AnaheimLakers24]

Durcant couldnt beat lebabydick and dirk did.

[Naero]

One guy went up against Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Garnett all in their primes.

The other guy goes up against all perimeter guys.

You only mentioned the outliers that he played against to distort the notion that Dirk had a disadvantage which "stymied his production from being even greater" than Duran'ts; that's impossible, as few meetings against them will skew his production that much over the course of an 82-game season. Plus, how did Kobe hinder Dirk's production when he wasn't even routinely guarded by him? :wtf:

In Dirk's most title-favorited year of his career in 2007, do you want to remind me who was guarding him in the first-round series he shot 38.3% in? When a ripe Durant underperformed in a losing effort, he was at least guarded by defensive specialists in Tony Allen and Kawhi Leonard.

If you want to downplay Dirk's supporting cast to downplay his accomplishments, please explicate to me how Dirk's team managed to win the 2011 NBA Finals despite him shooting 41%; I'm confused, because Durant shot 54% in the 2012 finals compared to a collective 42% by his supposedly stacked supporting cast, and he was still somehow unable to lead them to a win.

[Fallen Angel]

Dirk has 2 NBA Final appearances actually
not through his first 9 seasons

why would someone compare a 17 year career to one that hasn't even hit a decade.

[Fallen Angel]

Article dated back to the summer of 2014, not that big of a deal since their recent matchups have been meaningless:


Regular season head-to-head

Points per game: Duncan 21.6; Nowitzki 21.3

Rebounds per game: Duncan 11.3; Nowitzki 8.3

Assists per game: Duncan 3.0; Nowitzki 2.4

Blocks per game: Duncan 1.8; Nowitzki 1.0

Steals per game: Nowitzki 0.8; Duncan 0.6

Field-goal percentage: Duncan 51.3; Nowitzki 45.6

3-point percentage: Duncan 40.0; Nowitzki 37.5

Wins: Duncan 31; Nowitzki 21

Playoffs head-to-head

Points per game: Duncan 26.0; Nowitzki 24.5

Rebounds per game: Duncan 12.3; Nowitzki 10.1

Assists per game: Duncan 3.6; Nowitzki 2.3

Blocks per game: Duncan 1.9; Nowitzki 0.6

Steals per game: Nowitzki 1.3; Duncan 0.8

Field-goal percentage: Duncan 53.9; Nowitzki 49.8

3-point percentage: Nowitzki 22.9; Duncan 0.0

Wins: Duncan 14; Nowitzki 12

[masonanddixon]

You only mentioned the outliers that he played against to distort the notion that Dirk had a disadvantage which "stymied his production from being even greater" than Duran'ts; that's impossible, as few meetings against them will skew his production that much over the course of an 82-game season. Plus, how did Kobe hinder Dirk's production when he wasn't even routinely guarded by him? :wtf:

In Dirk's most title-favorited year of his career in 2007, do you want to remind me who was guarding him in the first-round series he shot 38.3% in? When a ripe Durant underperformed in a losing effort, he was at least guarded by defensive specialists in Tony Allen and Kawhi Leonard.

If you want to downplay Dirk's supporting cast to downplay his accomplishments, please explicate to me how Dirk's team managed to win the 2011 NBA Finals despite him shooting 41%; I'm confused, because Durant shot 54% in the 2012 finals compared to a collective 42% by his supposedly stacked supporting cast, and he was still somehow unable to lead them to a win.

Because Dirk was the sole focus of the opposition whereas Durant was one of three stars on his team...and because Dirk destroyed Miami every single 4th quarter whereas Durant collected buckets in garbage team.

[theaussieguy]

not through his first 9 seasons

why would someone compare a 17 year career to one that hasn't even hit a decade.

woops my bad

[masonanddixon]

Article dated back to the summer of 2014, not that big of a deal since their recent matchups have been meaningless:

So you just proved my point. Thank you.

[Fallen Angel]

So you just proved my point. Thank you.
45-33 isn't proving your point.

Duncan beating Dirk out in PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, and FG% in both the regular season and playoffs isn't proving your point.

[masonanddixon]

45-33 isn't proving your point.

Duncan beating Dirk out in PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, and FG% in both the regular season and playoffs isn't proving your point.

They essentially battled to a standstill and Duncan is recognised as top 5 player of all time. And Dirk assraped Duncan that one postseason when Manu was injured.

Now how about you post Dirk and Durant's head to head statistics?

[Fallen Angel]

Dirk on an All-Time ranking is around the 20s.

The way Durant's career is heading he'll easily make the 10s.

[masonanddixon]

Dirk on an All-Time ranking is around the 20s.

The way Durant's career is heading he'll easily make the 10s.

Durant hasn't been relevant for like three years now. And his team has been surpassed by Golden State.

This season is his best chance though as the West blows.

[Fallen Angel]

They essentially battled to a standstill and Duncan is recognised as top 5 player of all time. And Dirk assraped Duncan that one postseason when Manu was injured.

Now how about you post Dirk and Durant's head to head statistics?
They play different positions and guard different players, but whatever.

http://bkref.com/tiny/6jjQi

They are equal in the W/L total during the RS, but KD has more playoff wins.

[masonanddixon]

They play different positions and guard different players, but whatever.

http://bkref.com/tiny/6jjQi

They are equal in the W/L total during the RS, but KD has more playoff wins.

But didn't Durant get raped by Marion in the 2011 playoffs? As in like 37% shooting for the series.

[Fallen Angel]

Durant hasn't been relevant for like three years now. And his team has been surpassed by Golden State.

This season is his best chance though as the West blows.
He's still the best player in the league healthy. He doesn't need elite role players to reach 50+ wins.

The only way that someone would deny Durant's potential for greatness is if they're agenda driven. If KD's career ends up worse than Dirk then he would have underachieved, that's a fact.

[masonanddixon]

He's still the best player in the league healthy. He doesn't need elite role players to reach 50+ wins.

The only way that someone would deny Durant's potential for greatness is if they're agenda driven. If KD's career ends up worse than Dirk then he would have underachieved, that's a fact.

He's a nice player but he's no Dirk, and there's no shame in that.

[sportjames23]

I hope OP isn't a sheep and thinks that just because the Mavs' record is better than the Thunder that it submits Dirk's legacy and he'll never be passed by Durant.

I don't know where this came from, but Durant has the higher potential for greatness. There's no question about it.


OP doesn't like black players.

[dunksby]

OP doesn't like black players.
White Supremacist second generation Serb, seems like Australia is full of these assholes.

[tpols]

Article dated back to the summer of 2014, not that big of a deal since their recent matchups have been meaningless:

it doesn't matter because you said dirk has never got the better of top 10 player when he's outplayed Duncan bron in series where he also won. Durant hasn't done anything like that in the playoffs yet

[DMAVS41]

Why?

Durant is one of the best players of all time when he's healthy. It's unfair to compare careers as Dirk is ending his and Durant still has a decade left.

But Durant is certainly on the Dirk level, perhaps higher...nothing wrong with saying that.

I'd like to see Durant's game evolve a little and be able to grow as a player in some certain areas, but to act like Dirk is on another level is silly.

So...meh...Durant vs Dirk all time? Total toss up pretty much at this point assuming Durant is able to play out his career without a ton of injuries.

Quite frankly, there is a better chance Durant finishes ahead of Dirk all time than Dirk finishes ahead of Durant.

As for the help stuff...I think Durant has had some better teams, but those teams have suffered some unlucky breaks. Those 03 Mavs were similar...

But if one were to think Dirk is clearly better...just no. That isn't accurate at all...

[ZMonkey11]

And lets forget Dirk has had a great coach in Carlisle to hide his defensive inadequacies.

And the fact KD has basically not had a coach his whole career.

[guy]

Dirk probably doesn't have a title if Lebron doesn't totally meltdown in 2011. Durant probably does have a title if Lebron has a similar meltdown in 2012.

I do think its a little bit of overrating Durant and/or underrating Dirk to say Durant is at a higher level. I wouldn't really say one is notably more impactful then the other.

[guy]

One guy went up against Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Garnett all in their primes.

The other guy goes up against all perimeter guys.

Dirk never went up against Shaq or Kobe in his prime. Durant actually beat Dirk, Kobe, and Duncan all in the same playoff, although neither were in their primes but still playing at a high level.

[DMAVS41]

And lets forget Dirk has had a great coach in Carlisle to hide his defensive inadequacies.

And the fact KD has basically not had a coach his whole career.

Carlisle certainly didn't hide them last year.

There is no doubt Rick is a much better coach than any coach KD had had, but there are a couple myths here.

1. Dirk was a poor defender in his prime. This simply is false. He just wasn't a very good defender. This is a big difference though...and it really matters because often the argument against Dirk is that he "sucked on defense"...and that just isn't true. Durant does nothing defensively to move the needle in any real way more than Dirk.

2. Rick took over the Mavs when they had great rosters. Again, this is false. Go look at the 09, 10, and 12 rosters (with 12 being the last year of Dirk being capable of winning it by carrying a team imo)...those weren't championship caliber rosters...so while Rick is an amazing coach...he didn't have a lot to work with outside of 11.

[sd3035]

I like Dirk a lot but Durant is a better player

Dirk won a title but Durant is still young

[Papaya Petee]

Durant is better?

So I don't understand this thread title.

Durant 2014 >> Any Dirk season
Durants just on another level when healthy.

[TomBrady]

Through 9 seasons: http://bkref.com/tiny/MQ5ll

KD has 1 MVP.
Dirk has 1 MVP.

KD has 1 NBA Finals appearance.
Dirk has 1 NBA Finals appearance.

KD has 6 All-Star Game appearances (not counting 2016).
Dirk has 6 All-Star Game appearances (counting 2007).

KD led the league in scoring 4 times.
Dirk led the league in scoring 0 times.

KD made the All-NBA First Team 5 times.
Dirk made the All-NBA First Team 3 times (counting 2007).

Durant pretty much missed last season so he would have probably added one more All-NBA First Team award to his collection.
Dirk has two finals appearances, 2006 and 2011.

Durant is still better though. Higher peak so far.

[Uncle Drew]

One guy went up against Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, and Garnett all in their primes.

The other guy goes up against all perimeter guys.
#BREAKINGNEWS: Perimeter player goes against perimeter players.

[ralph_i_el]

He's done nothing to indicate he's at Dirk's level and his resume isn't 5% of Dirk's.

Anyone who thinks he's in the same ballpark as Dirk doesn't know basketball and is a child.

Why watch basketball if you're a racist?

[BlazerRed]

Dirk has two finals appearances, 2006 and 2011.

Durant is still better though. Higher peak so far.

Durant definitely has the higher peak, but Dirk in those finals was incredible. I'm more of a Durant fan, but I really want to see him dominate a finals like that :bowdown:

[Sambacher]

Dirk has two finals appearances, 2006 and 2011.

Durant is still better though. Higher peak so far.
It would prolly do you a lil good to read the whole post... "Through nine seasons"

[sportjames23]

Dirk has two finals appearances, 2006 and 2011.

Durant is still better though. Higher peak so far.


Joe Montana is the GOAT QB