Kawhi Leonard is EASILY the best two way player in the league...

[stalkerforlife]

24 years old...DPOY...22ppg, 8rpg, 2apg, 2spg, 1bpg, 51.5% from the field, 46.6% from three, 85% from the line.

Congratulations, Duncan.

[LoneyROY7]

Paul George.

[T_L_P]

You sound awfully defensive for a guy who claims Kobe is still a top 5 player in the NBA. :oldlol:

[Springsteen]

Since you're obviously going to continue this retarded campaign of downplaying how much Duncan contribute to this team at his age, let's play a game.

Replace Duncan on this Spurs team with Kobe. Does he make that team better?

[stalkerforlife]

Since you're obviously going to continue this retarded campaign of downplaying how much Duncan contribute to this team at his age, let's play a game.

Replace Duncan on this Spurs team with Kobe. Does he make that team better?

Are you serious? Kobe is coming off a career ending injury for most that happened in his 17th season.

Duncan is top 5 all time. I am just simply explaining how completely opposite Kobe and Duncan's circumstances have been for a majority of their careers.

Duncan hasn't averaged 20 or more in 9 years. He hasn't averaged 10 or more rebounds in 6 seasons. He has only played 30 or more minutes once in his last 6 seasons, the most important seasons of his career when focused on longevity.

Duncan didn't have to carry a team on his back in his 17th season averaging 27 points a game.

[pastis]

Are you serious? Kobe is coming off a career ending injury for most that happened in his 17th season.

Duncan is top 5 all time. I am just simply explaining how completely opposite Kobe and Duncan's circumstances have been for a majority of their careers.

Duncan hasn't averaged 20 or more in 9 years. He hasn't averaged 10 or more rebounds in 6 seasons. He has only played 30 or more minutes once in his last 6 seasons, the most important seasons of his career when focused on longevity.

Duncan didn't have to carry a team on his back in his 17th season averaging 27 points a game.

what? yea kobe team till 2004 and from 2008 to 2013 were bad. wtf? please, please stop. yea duncan had the chance to have one of the goat coaches with superb teamm8s...but kobe for the majority as well.

[Kawhi]

People act as if Pop was a HOF level coach from the get go. His ass was on the hot seat in his 3rd season and the only reason he didn't get replaced by Doc Rivers, was because the great Tim Duncan saved his ass in the Houston game. Of course, that same Tim Duncan handed him a championship just three months later.

[Milbuck]

Paul George.
This

PG would look like prime T-Mac 2.0 with better D on the Spurs

[stalkerforlife]

I just can't believe Leonard's percentages...they are incredible. 46.6% from 3 on over 4 attempts a game.

Leonard is insane.

[SamuraiSWISH]

This

PG would look like prime T-Mac 2.0 with better D on the Spurs
Hyperbole? An upgraded T-Mac? Better defender. Not by much. But vastly inferior ball handler and scorer. KD is more akin to McGrady than George. PG13 isn't the same level of handle or scorer as those guys.

[Milbuck]

Hyperbole? An upgraded T-Mac? Better defender. Not by much. But vastly inferior ball handler and scorer. KD is more akin to McGrady than George. PG13 isn't the same level of handle or scorer as those guys.
2.0 probably wasn't best used. Didn't mean upgraded, just similar.

FWIW PG is at 26/8/5 on 60% TS which is entirely comparable to any T-Mac year outside of 2003 and to a lesser extent 2004. PG isn't quit there yet but he's taken a big step forward, he's actually decently better now than he was pre-injury.

[rmt]

24 years old...DPOY...22ppg, 8rpg, 2apg, 2spg, 1bpg, 51.5% from the field, 46.6% from three, 85% from the line.

Congratulations, Duncan.

Leonard's benefitting from Duncan too:

NBA Real Plus-Minus - 2015-16

1 Stephen Curry, PG GS 16 34.8 9.59 -0.74 8.85 4.00
2 Russell Westbrook, PG OKC 16 34.8 7.99 -0.76 7.23 2.98
3 Kyle Lowry, PG TOR 16 35.6 5.74 1.25 6.99 3.23
4 LeBron James, SF CLE 15 36.4 5.03 1.40 6.43 2.76
5 Draymond Green, PF GS 16 33.4 1.94 3.74 5.68 2.79
6 Paul Millsap, PF ATL 17 33.9 2.55 2.64 5.19 2.71
7 Tim Duncan, C SA 15 27.6 0.11 4.83 4.94 1.81
8 Kawhi Leonard, SF SA 14 34.9 2.99 1.77 4.76 2.06

Based on DRPM:

1 Tim Duncan, C SA 15 27.6 0.11 4.83 4.94 1.81
2 DeAndre Jordan, C LAC 15 32.5 0.09 3.90 3.99 1.77
3 Andre Drummond, C DET 15 35.6 -0.14 3.89 3.75 2.12
4 Draymond Green, PF GS 16 33.4 1.94 3.74 5.68 2.79

Nice to have that behind you - allows you to take chances.

[PsychoBe]

stop sleeping on pg13 :facepalm . dude just dropped 40 and has consistently scored over 25 ppg over and over again but he's still not getting the credit he deserves.

[KG215]

stop sleeping on pg13 :facepalm . dude just dropped 40 and has consistently scored over 25 ppg over and over again but he's still not getting the credit he deserves.
He's not sleeping on PG. Since Kobe is clearly done and is having a terrible season, he's going to work on hyping Leonard the rest of the year in order to disparage Duncan. He's got a "clear as day" agenda and it all stems from his Kobe love.

[Springsteen]

He's not sleeping on PG. Since Kobe is clearly done and is having a terrible season, he's going to work on hyping Leonard the rest of the year in order to disparage Duncan. He's got a "clear as day" agenda and it all stems from his Kobe love.

This. Kobe fans gotta latch onto Curry and take down Duncan nowadays.

Kinda sad. :(

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

George is the better offensive player, but a worse defender than Kawhi.

Between these two and Jimmy Butler, I don't see how you can differentiate them as far as impact goes. They're too similar.

[Teanett]

George is the better offensive player, but a worse defender than Kawhi.

Between these two and Jimmy Butler, I don't see how you can differentiate them as far as impact goes. They're too similar.

These claims are all fair but you can't leave Lebron out of this discussion.
It's laughable. There is not one player an EASILY better two-way player than Lebron.

[WorldWarriors]

George is the better offensive player, but a worse defender than Kawhi.

Between these two and Jimmy Butler, I don't see how you can differentiate them as far as impact goes. They're too similar. I was gonna say Jimmy Butler as well.

[r0drig0lac]

These claims are all fair but you can't leave Lebron out of this discussion.
It's laughable. There is not one player an EASILY better two-way player than Lebron.
agree

[HenryGarfunkle]

These claims are all fair but you can't leave Lebron out of this discussion.
It's laughable. There is not one player an EASILY better two-way player than Lebron.
Yeah and none of Butler/Leonard/George are even close to LeBron when it comes to playmaking and passing... and hell, George is the only one that comes close in scoring.

LeBron trumps all these dudes on offense and doesn't give up much or anything to them on the other end.

But people love overrating second tier stars to downplay Lebron. They can't stand his consistency at the top.

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron

Kawhi
PG
Butler

[DMAVS41]

Nothing "easy" about it, but what guys like Leonard, PG, and Butler are doing so far this year is extremely impressive.

I actually think PG has been the best overall player so far this year, then Leonard not too far back, then Butler.

And yea...this guy named Lebron is still better than them all.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

These claims are all fair but you can't leave Lebron out of this discussion.
It's laughable. There is not one player an EASILY better two-way player than Lebron.

Of course.

I was only comparing the three. Maybe I should've made that more clear. :confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

George is the better offensive player, but a worse defender than Kawhi.

Between these two and Jimmy Butler, I don't see how you can differentiate them as far as impact goes. They're too similar.

I was having this discussion not too long ago. I'd actually put Butler, George, and Leonard on the same tier as players. Until one of them starts to show a big gap in offense and/or defense (I could see the possibility of Leonard reaching that potential the best out of the 3), they should remain together.

[PsychoBe]

I was having this discussion not too long ago. I'd actually put Butler, George, and Leonard on the same tier as players. Until one of them starts to show a big gap in offense and/or defense (I could see the possibility of Leonard reaching that potential the best out of the 3), they should remain together.

no, they shouldn't.

pg dropped 40 (which isn't even his career high btw), dropped 38 in the playoffs against bran and the heat (and won), and has scored 26+ points for over 10 consecutive games (along with like 8 rebounds per game and 4 assists).

i don't understand how it's a contest. it's paul and then everyone else.

[StrongLurk]

Don't even need to mention Bron, we know he is the best two way player.

But damn, give me PG13 ANY DAY over Kawhi.

Seriously, Paul George has been incredible this year, definitely the 6th or 7th best player so far.

Kawhi is great, but just isnt quite PG13 yet.

[Derka]

Kawhi is great but PG is the best two-way guy right now.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Almost has a 5x5 before the end of the third quarter.

25 (11-17 shooting)/7/5/4 steals/5 blocks

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi > PG :bowdown:

[Lebronxrings]

kobe stans. :oldlol:


RIP

[Artillery]

kawhi was a beast tonight:

25 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, 5 blocks on 61% shooting(50% on 3P)

aldridge had 8 points and 4 rebounds on 36% shooting:facepalm

[La Frescobaldi]

Who predicted the ascendence of Leonard before his FMVP playoff run?

Right here, guys. Right HERE.

Dude is living up to my predictions, in fact even better.

[fragokota]

One steal shy from a 5x5 game. :applause:

[tmacattack33]

No. What does that even mean?

The best two way player is Steph Curry, second best is Lebron, third best is Durant. Just like the best player list. They are 10's on offense and 8's on defense.

And 10 offense/8 defense is more valuable to your team than being a 9.5 on defense and 7.5 on offense like Kawhi is. The only exception is legendary shot-blocking centers like Ben Wallace or Hakeem who can change a whole team's defense.