Curry is on a whole different point gaurd tier

[Gus Hemmingway]

From now on its:

Tier Curry: Stephen Curry

2nd Tier: Westbrook/CP3/Wall

3rd Tier: Lowry/Irving/Lillard.

[warriorfan]

no excuses

[Young X]

He's not a point guard.

[TiagoSimoes]

From now on its:

Tier Curry: Stephen Curry

2nd Tier: Westbrook/CP3/Wall

3rd Tier: Lowry/Irving/Lillard.

Tier 1:curry
Tier 2:westbrook


Tier:cp3

Tier whatever:rest

wall at cp3 and westbrook level :roll: :roll: he been playing like trash whole season

[LoneyROY7]

He's not a point guard.

Yes he is, dude. Don't be salty.

[AirBonner]

Amazing player. Better than Kobe ever was :cheers:

[pastis]

Amazing player. Better than Kobe ever was :cheers:

but thats not a shame. right now, curry is better than many many all-time greats

[3ball]

And just think - if you take the 3-point line away, he's just a low-efficiency, 27 ppg, short gunner....

Without the 3-point line, he's World B Free... Today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly era is the only era where he'd be a top 5 player.

[3ball]

.
MJ was the FAR better shooter inside 20 feet:


.........................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................... ..Curry 2015 (s.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) (<-- link to data)

5-9 ft.............. 49.2%, 126 fga................ 40.3%, 72 fga

10-14 ft.......... 51.5%, 466 fga................ 52.9%, 85 fga

15-19 ft.......... 49.5%, 594 fga................ 43.9%, 132 fga

[LoneyROY7]

And just think - if you take the 3-point line away, he's just a low-efficiency, 27 ppg, short gunner....

Without the 3-point line, he's World B Free... Today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly era is the only era where he'd be a top 5 player.

He's shooting 51.5 percent from the field, bud. :oldlol:

[3ball]

.
From basketball-reference.com:



"In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role."


Curry's usage is now 33%, which is equal with MJ's career usage - so we can accurately compare their ORtg (points-per-possession), which is the only true efficiency measure:

Jordan Jan 1988 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1988/#210-224-sum:pgl_basic): 34.3 ppg.. 5.7 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 3.9 spg.. 2.2 bpg.. 58.9 fg.. 64.8 ts.. 132 ortg
Curry. Nov 2016: 31.9 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 51.5 fg.. 69.1 ts.. 126 ortg


As you can see, MJ is easily more efficient, while being ahead in virtually every other category, in addition to being DPOY - Curry is a small fraction of the player MJ was..

Oh, and since MJ was capable of 37 ppg on all two's, he would be the greatest in ANY era, not just in eras that had a 3-point line.

[SouBeachTalents]

And just think - if you take the 3-point line away, he's just a low-efficiency, 27 ppg, short gunner....

Without the 3-point line, he's World B Free... Today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly era is the only era where he'd be a top 5 player.

This dude is incapable of enjoying basketball

[pastis]

This dude is incapable of enjoying basketball

he copied his messeges from the "Steph Currys numbers" thread. damn he is so mad right now. rent free.

[Gus Hemmingway]

And just think - if you take the 3-point line away, he's just a low-efficiency, 27 ppg, short gunner....

Without the 3-point line, he's World B Free... Today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly era is the only era where he'd be a top 5 player.

Need some insider advice bro. I've been playing lots of 3 on 3's at my local Y, locals call me "the enforcer". Leading backup rebounder on my D4 highschool team. I can't decide whether to play for my local community college or get into the Euro League. Appreciate any feedback

[3ball]

He's shooting 51.5 percent from the field, bud. :oldlol:
For 1 month.

For his career, he's at 47%.

Without the 3-point line, Curry's would be a 19 ppg career scorer at 47%.

[Young X]

Yes he is, dude. Don't be salty.I'm not salty.

When I watch him play, I don't see a PG. Same thing with guys like Lillard and Irving. They're listed as such but they're not actual point guards.

Their mentality is almost always to shoot/score over getting a teammate involved. Even if that shot is a terrible one.

John Stockton is a PG. Steve Nash is a PG. Magic Johnson is a PG. Jason Kidd is a PG.

[Smoke117]

And just think - if you take the 3-point line away, he's just a low-efficiency, 27 ppg, short gunner....

Without the 3-point line, he's World B Free... Today's spaced-out, 3-point friendly era is the only era where he'd be a top 5 player.

Cringe. This is the 37th season we've had the 3pt line now...it's not exactly new anymore.

[fragokota]

This dude is incapable of enjoying basketball

Imagine the salt when GSW break Chicago's record :roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Need some insider advice bro. I've been playing lots of 3 on 3's at my local Y, locals call me "the enforcer". Leading backup rebounder on my D4 highschool team. I can't decide whether to play for my local community college or get into the Euro League. Appreciate any feedback
I wouldn't know - I got full academic and hoops scholarships so it was a reeeallly tough choice for me.

[3ball]

Cringe.
It's accurate - if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

Given this reality, we know for a FACT that Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would be talking about Curry if this was an era that didn't have 3-point line.

[LoneyROY7]

I'm not salty.

When I watch him play, I don't see a PG. Same thing with guys like Lillard and Irving. They're listed as such but they're not actual point guards.

Their mentality is almost always to shoot/score over getting teammates involved.

John Stockton is a PG. Steve Nash is a PG. Magic Johnson is a PG. Jason Kidd is a PG.

That traditional PG stuff is outdated. Curry runs the GSW offense and he's doing it better than anyone else in the league.

[TomBrady]

I wouldn't know - I got full academic and hoops scholarships so it was a reeeallly tough choice for me.
So why were you never able to hack it?

[3ball]

So why were you never able to hack it?
I have a great career bud.. It's called mergers and acquisitions... Private equity.. Investment banking.

the sexy kind of finance... otoh, you're probably a loan officer... :roll:

[AirBonner]

It's accurate - if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

Given this reality, we know for a FACT that Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.
You playing that what "if" game. You are shook and reaching. :lol

[TomBrady]

I have a great career bud.. It's called mergers and acquisitions... Private equity..
I'll say again, why were you never able to hack it? Just another player who could dominate scrubs in high school but was brought crashing back to earth when he got to college?

[Smoke117]

It's accurate - if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

Given this reality, we know for a FACT that Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would be talking about Curry if this was an era that didn't have 3-point line.

Because if there was no 3pt line Curry's development would have gone exactly the same way...:rolleyes: Your attempts to troll are just yawn inducing these days. Delete this account and create a new gimmick.

[3ball]

misinformation itt

[IGOTGAME]

He's not a point guard.

this

[IGOTGAME]

That traditional PG stuff is outdated. Curry runs the GSW offense and he's doing it better than anyone else in the league.

So Kobe was a point guard for LA in when they won those titles in with Gasol? Wade was the point guard on those Heat teams?

we are really stretching the definition of point guard...he spends huge chunks of games running around like a shooting guard off ball/off screens...

[AirBonner]

It's a simple fact- if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

That isn't "reaching" - that's a fact

Given this reality, we know for a FACT that Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would be talking about Curry if this was an era that didn't have 3-point line.
If you remove dunking how good would DeAndre Jordan be? The FACT is players dont play hypothetical games

[Springsteen]

It's accurate - if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

Given this reality, we know for a FACT that Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would be talking about Curry if this was an era that didn't have 3-point line.

You don't think he wouldn't adjust? What do you think he spends most of his time practicing? 2-Pointers? If he played in an era without the line, you think he wouldn't be practicing to shoot at a better clip from a closer range?

Your retarded assumptions which you parade as fact are all based on conjecture. Nevermind you brought up Micheal Jordan for no ****ing reason in a thread about POINT GUARDS. Not Small Forwards. Not Shooting Guards. POINT GUARDS. Seriously?

Do you just sit on this forum, refreshing the page, until someone makes a thread about a player who they feel is going to be one of the best in the game; and then excitedly pore through Jordan's basketball-reference.com stats and compare them to that player while writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of useless shlock?

You were banned on realGM in 4 posts. What does that say?

You still post here because the mods think it's funny, apparently. :lol

[Young X]

That traditional PG stuff is outdated. Curry runs the GSW offense and he's doing it better than any one else in the league.Because of his insane scoring ability, not because of great passing ability, court vision or decision making.

And then on defense he doesn't even guard opposing star PG's. He guards SG's.

I always ask this question and no one answers me: Other than him being listed as one, what makes Curry or Irving PG's and not James Harden?

[3ball]

You playing that what "if" game. You're reaching.


It's a simple fact- if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

That isn't "reaching" - that's a fact - if you disagree, than you're denying simple, mathematical fact - Curry's 3-pointers WOULD turn into 2-pointers without a 3-point line

Given this reality, we know Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would even be talking about Curry if this the 70's - he'd be just another short, inefficient gunner - there were plenty back then

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'm not salty.

When I watch him play, I don't see a PG. Same thing with guys like Lillard and Irving. They're listed as such but they're not actual point guards.

Their mentality is almost always to shoot/score over getting a teammate involved. Even if that shot is a terrible one.

John Stockton is a PG. Steve Nash is a PG. Magic Johnson is a PG. Jason Kidd is a PG.
I agree. Even LeBron is more PG like in approach than those guys you mention. CP3 and Westbrook are more PGs. Curry is a slightly shorter shooting guard. His stats and play style reflect it too. 33 ppg and 6 apg.

[AirBonner]

It's a simple fact- if you remove the 3-point line, half of Curry's shots go from being the highest efficiency shot in the game (3-pointer at 44%), to the lowest efficiency shot in the game (a long two at 44%).

That isn't "reaching" - that's a fact - if you disagree, than you're denying simple, mathematical fact - Curry's 3-pointers WOULD turn into 2-pointers without a 3-point line

Given this reality, we know Curry would be much worse without the 3-point line.

Opponents don't give a shit about defending long two's - so no one would be talking about Curry if this was an era that didn't have 3-point line.
Just stop before you have to edit more posts:lol

[RRR3]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I will admit I am biased against Zero Votes Curry and am still salty his team beat my boy LeBron.

But IMO, teams guard Curry very unwisely. This dude is clearly the greatest shooter who ever lived, so why is he open so much? Yeah, yeah, screens blah blah, ****ing stay with him and trap him jesus. I've seen so many times when Cury passes the ball inside and his man starts drifting towards the hoop to either help out or get the rebound, which leaves Curry wide open. I honestly am in disbelief as to how Curry is scoring so much so efficiently, it doesnt seem realistic given that he isnt a physically dominant player at all. He should not be harder to stop than Kevin Durant, and teams need to adjust.

[Smoke117]

You put CP3 from 08 and 09 before he hurt his knee on this Warriors team and he would be having even better seasons than he did there. Curry is great, fantastic, but if you replaced CP3 with him on those Hornets teams, his efficiency wouldn't be close to what it is on this Warriors team.

[LoneyROY7]

Because of his insane scoring ability, not because of great passing ability, court vision or decision making.

And then on defense he doesn't even guard opposing star PG's. He guards SG's.

I always ask this question and no one answers me: Other than him being listed as one, what makes Curry or Irving PG's and not James Harden?

That's completely untrue. He's a very good passer...his assists are only down this year because his scoring has been insane. He's been averaging 8 assists over the last 2 years.

And to question his decision making is rather crazy, considering the team-success he's had. Shoot or pass, he's clearly making the right play more often than not.

[Young X]

I agree. Even LeBron is more PG like in approach than those guys you mention. CP3 and Westbrook are more PGs. Curry is a slightly shorter shooting guard. His stats and play style reflect it too. 33 ppg and 6 apg.Maybe we're just old school.

I'm personally a fan of the position so I think it's should be more defined than it is today. Just because you're a primary ballhandler or listed as a PG doesn't make you an actual one.

If Curry had the exact same game, but had been 2 inches taller and listed as a SG nobody would even think of him as a point guard. He'd be another addition to the Harden, Wade and Kobe line of great wingmen.

[3ball]

This dude is clearly the greatest 3-point shooter who ever lived, so why is he open so much?



Curry's 3-point style is susceptible to getting shut down in the playoffs - from SB Nation:



But defensively, Dellavedova earned his playing time and more. He harangued Curry through one of the worst nights not only of his career, but in NBA Finals history. When the scrub guarded the MVP in the halfcourt, the MVP shot 0-for-8, missing all five of his three pointers and committing four turnovers. Curry went 3-for-18 when Dellavedova was on the court. Curry could have set the record for most three-pointers attempted in an NBA Finals game with his misses alone, going 2-for-15 from deep. Curry had more turnovers than assists, something he only did once in the regular season. And Delly was guarding him when the Warriors had a chance to win ... and forced an airball:



Obviously, MJ would lock Curry down much worse than Delladova did - same way MJ locked down the more athletic Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc), Gary Payton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw), John Stockton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOuMwmXtgd0), Kevin Johnson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2rBgOqGCw), Tim Hardaway (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ouMPqEk-s), Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8), etc., etc.
.

[RRR3]

Shut up 3ball. No one thinks Curry>MJ so stop worrying

[Heavincent]

Nobody in the league has a more positive impact on their teammates than Steph Curry. Nobody.

To people saying he's not a "real" PG: Who the **** cares? People say that like it means something. Would he be a PG if he dribbled around more and padded his assists?

I agree he's not a traditional PG, and the Warriors are better off for it. Why the hell would he play like John Stockton or Chris Paul? His abilities allow him to be more than that.

[3ball]

Shut up 3ball. No one thinks Curry>MJ so stop worrying



I'm just trying to ensure accuracy - it's not accurate to call Curry the best shooter ever when he's only the best THREE-POINT shooter ever - many guys were FAR better shooters inside 20 feet, including MJ:


.........................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................... ..Curry 2015 (s.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) (<-- link to data)

5-9 ft.............. 49.2%, 126 fga................ 40.3%, 72 fga

10-14 ft.......... 51.5%, 466 fga................ 52.9%, 85 fga

15-19 ft.......... 49.5%, 594 fga................ 43.9%, 132 fga


Or do you not care about being accurate?

[AirBonner]

I'm just trying to ensure accuracy - it's not accurate to call Curry the best shooter ever when he's only the best THREE-POINT shooter ever - many guys were FAR better shooters inside 20 feet, including MJ:


.........................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................... ..Curry 2015 (s.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) (<-- link to data)

5-9 ft.............. 49.2%, 126 fga................ 40.3%, 72 fga

10-14 ft.......... 51.5%, 466 fga................ 52.9%, 85 fga

15-19 ft.......... 49.5%, 594 fga................ 43.9%, 132 fga


Or do you not care about being accurate?
Dat autism doe

[WorldWarriors]

Nobody in the league has a more positive impact on their teammates than Steph Curry. Nobody.

To people saying he's not a "real" PG: Who the **** cares? People say that like it means something. Would he be a PG if he dribbled around more and padded his assists?

I agree he's not a traditional PG, and the Warriors are better off for it. Why the hell would he play like John Stockton or Chris Paul? His abilities allow him to be more than that.
This is the truth. He's a point guard AND a shooting guard. Warriors don't have these defined roles as most teams in the league. Their approach is different. They utilize their players abilities and build schemes based upon that. Curry runs off screens more this season because Dray has emerged as a solid playmaker at the power forward position.

[Young X]

That's completely untrue. He's a very good passer...his assists are only down this year because his scoring has been insane. He's been averaging 8 assists over the last 2 years.

And to question his decision making is rather crazy, considering the team-success he's had. Shoot or pass, he's clearly making the right play more often than not.Harden is a very good passer. So is Wade. So is Kobe. So is Lebron. They're not point guards though.

And his decision making isn't crazy to me. He still takes stupid shots, he still makes stupid passes, he's still loose with he ball (although he's improved). He doesn't guard opposing elite PG's. He just gets away with this because of his insane shooting.

[RRR3]

I find it suspicious he gets a similar amount of free throws as LeBron.

[Smoke117]

Harden is a very good passer. So is Wade. So is Kobe. So is Lebron. They're not point guards though.

And his decision making isn't crazy to me. He still takes stupid shots, he still makes stupid passes, he's still loose with he ball (although he's improved). He doesn't guard opposing elite PG's. He just gets away with this because of his insane shooting.

Kobe is not even close to being as good of a passer and play maker as Harden, Wade, and especially Lebron. He does not belong with those other three in this regard.

[Heavincent]

Kobe is not even close to being as good of a passer and play maker as Harden, Wade, and especially Lebron. He does not belong with those other three in this regard.

You're dead wrong, as usual. Kobe ran the triangle to near perfection for over 10 years, and thrived in D'Antoni's system as well.

[Heavincent]

And his decision making isn't crazy to me. He still takes stupid shots, he still makes stupid passes, he's still loose with he ball (although he's improved). He doesn't guard opposing elite PG's. He just gets away with this because of his insane shooting.

He's running one of the best offenses in the history of the league...

[RRR3]

You're dead wrong, as usual. Kobe ran the triangle to near perfection for over 10 years, and thrived in D'Antoni's system as well.
Kobe is nowhere near LeBron as a passer, he ain't wrong about that.

[Chokefree]

Amazing player. Better than Kobe ever was :cheers:
kids these days......just stop posting please....you only remember now, but dont remember what kobe has done in the past while you were still sucking your moms breast milk...

[RRR3]

kids these days......just stop posting please....you only remember now, but dont remember what kobe has done in the past while you were still sucking your moms breast milk...
Curry is playing like god right now. I cant stand the little gerbil but lets be honest.

[LoneyROY7]

Harden is a very good passer. So is Wade. So is Kobe. So is Lebron. They're not point guards though.

And his decision making isn't crazy to me. He still takes stupid shots, he still makes stupid passes, he's still loose with he ball (although he's improved). He doesn't guard opposing elite PG's. He just gets away with this because of his insane shooting.

Bad shots for normal players aren't bad shots for Curry...that much should be very obvious at this point.

And again to question the decision-making of the lead guard of the league's best offense, current champions, and who's team is 18-0 is ridiculous.

[DaOldLion]

I find it suspicious he gets a similar amount of free throws as LeBron.

Curry is averaging a career high 6 FTA per game, mostly because he's taking 21 FGA per game..

Lebron is currently averaging 7.6 FTA per game, and hasn't shot as low as 6 FTA per game since he rookie year.. not really sure what the hell you're talking about here

[IGOTGAME]

Bad shots for normal players aren't bad shots for Curry...that much should be very obvious at this point.

And who he guards has no impact on how he functions as a PG on offense.

so Lebron is a point guard. as long as we have settled that.

[Heavincent]

Curry does guard elite PG's. I remember him shitting on Westbrook last year, for example. Curry kept forcing him into turnovers and bad shots.

Sometimes they just like to utilize Thompson's length and defensive abilities.

[RRR3]

Curry is averaging 6.4 FTA/G, and 6.7 per 36 minutes. LeBron is 7.6, and 7.5 per 36. More than half of Curry's shots are 3, and LeBron shoots 38% of his shots from 0-3 feet, compared to Curry at 16%.

[SaltyMeatballs]

Lol at John Wall being in the same tier as Westbrook and CP3. His shooting % is ass this year. He's a tier 3 PG

[SamuraiSWISH]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I will admit I am biased against Zero Votes Curry and am still salty his team beat my boy LeBron.

But IMO, teams guard Curry very unwisely. This dude is clearly the greatest shooter who ever lived, so why is he open so much? Yeah, yeah, screens blah blah, ****ing stay with him and trap him jesus. I've seen so many times when Cury passes the ball inside and his man starts drifting towards the hoop to either help out or get the rebound, which leaves Curry wide open. I honestly am in disbelief as to how Curry is scoring so much so efficiently, it doesnt seem realistic given that he isnt a physically dominant player at all. He should not be harder to stop than Kevin Durant, and teams need to adjust.
This is the most astute and analytical analysis I have seen from you in regarding actual basketball play ... ever.

And it's a good one. I'm proud.

I get frustrated watching teams try to defend Curry poorly as well. Either on ball or off. Be physical with him the way Delladova did. Sit in his square. Make him uncomfortable. Even with his quick release sit on the jumper and make him play inside the stripe. Make him beat you at the rim or with the pass. He racks up all these points with that three ball. And given he is a great catch and shoot player ... it bothers me when teams forget about him off the ball. His man plays help defense or sags for rebounds.

They should be totally focused on staying on Curry. Make all their other weapons beat you. Cause the threat of his jumper is like an added offensive player on the court.

But to be honest the league is really weak now. Western conference has the ancient Spurs. The civil war Clippers. And the East has yet to be full strength Cavs. No one wants to admit it but OKC has two studs. But season by season it looks like KD is a morphing into an injury prone TMac clone who can't stay on the floor.

Teams need to start playing them smarter.

[Young X]

He's running one of the best offenses in the history of the league...Michael Jordan did too. A number of times. He wasn't a floor general though. Neither is Curry.

And Kobe was definitely a very good passer. He "ran" the Lakers offense, but he wasn't a point guard.

[STATUTORY]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt, as I will admit I am biased against Zero Votes Curry and am still salty his team beat my boy LeBron.

But IMO, teams guard Curry very unwisely. This dude is clearly the greatest shooter who ever lived, so why is he open so much? Yeah, yeah, screens blah blah, ****ing stay with him and trap him jesus. I've seen so many times when Cury passes the ball inside and his man starts drifting towards the hoop to either help out or get the rebound, which leaves Curry wide open. I honestly am in disbelief as to how Curry is scoring so much so efficiently, it doesnt seem realistic given that he isnt a physically dominant player at all. He should not be harder to stop than Kevin Durant, and teams need to adjust.

This is like saying if teams just sag off lebron and play him for the drive while covering his 4 teammates then no way lebron will be able to beat your team with the jumper

[RRR3]

This is the most astute and analytical analysis I have seen from you in regarding actual basketball play ... ever.

And it's a good one. I'm proud.

I get frustrated watching teams try to defend Curry poorly as well. Either on ball or off. Be physical with him the way Delladova did. Sit in his square. Make him uncomfortable. Even with his quick release sit on the jumper and make him play inside the stripe. Make him beat you at the rim or with the pass. He racks up all these points with that three ball. And given he is a great catch and shoot player ... it bothers me when teams forget about him off the ball. His man plays help defense or sags for rebounds.

They should be totally focused on staying on Curry. Make all their other weapons beat you. Cause the threat of his jumper is like an added offensive player on the court.

But to be honest the league is really weak now. Western conference has the ancient Spurs. The civil war Clippers. And the East has yet to be full strength Cavs. No one wants to admit it but OKC has two studs. But season by season it looks like KD is a morphing into an injury prone TMac clone who can't stay on the floor.

Teams need to start playing them smarter.
:cheers:

also, in transition, players have an ingrained habit of getting back to protect the rim. This is idiotic against the Warriors, as I have seen teams run back to protect the rim and Curry gets a wide open fastbreak 3 from the corner. You have to stay on him constantly, he's that good of a shooter. Given what I have learned in my psychology course, I know that deeply ingrained patterns and ways of thinking (mental sets IIRC) are very hard to stop doing as people often unconsciously do their familiar routines, even if said routines are proven to be obsolete. So it may be hard for players to guard Curry like that, even if they know it is the smart thing to do.


But yeah, we all watched the finals last year and I don't see how Curry could have got so much better. He has increased his volume massively while IMROVING his efficiency. Absurd. Physical play really bothers him you can tell, and he tends to panic when he gets trapped and throw wild passes. He needs to be guarded more appropriately. Of course he'll still be amazing, but at least try to slow him down.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Curry would be great in ANY era, but I do wish the league allowed handchecking and physicality.

Like I said, Curry would still be elite, but how great and how efficient would be interesting to see.

[RidonKs]

From now on its:

Tier Curry: Stephen Curry

2nd Tier: Westbrook/CP3/Wall

3rd Tier: Lowry/Irving/Lillard.
tiers are way off

irving will be better than ever coming back, he's 2nd w/ russell

cp3 finally dropped a notch with his speed, he's 3rd tier with bledsoe and lowry and conley and teague, none of whom have a singe discernible weakness

lillard and wall are a notch behind those guys as they have exposed their youth and inexperience in recent years, also they have major deficiencies in their games (defending; shooting)

then the 5th tier has like a dozen guys on it ranging from all around performers like dragic and mudiay, instant offense like thomas and reggie jackson, etc etc

stacked position for sure

but agreed on curry... he is permanently in a league of his own and will be for a while, unless westbrook turns into isiah thomas or irving turns into jason kidd...

[RRR3]

tiers are way off

irving will be better than ever coming back, he's 2nd w/ russell

cp3 finally dropped a notch with his speed, he's 3rd tier with bledsoe and lowry and conley and teague, none of whom have a singe discernible weakness

lillard and wall are a notch behind those guys as they have exposed their youth and inexperience in recent years, also they have major deficiencies in their games (defending; shooting)

then the 5th tier has like a dozen guys on it ranging from all around performers like dragic and mudiay, instant offense like thomas and reggie jackson, etc etc

stacked position for sure

but agreed on curry... he is permanently in a league of his own and will be for a while, unless westbrook turns into isiah thomas or irving turns into jason kidd...
Mudiay? :yaohappy:

What makes Kyrie 2nd tier over Lillard and Wall? No way he's over Cp3.

[Smoke117]

You're dead wrong, as usual. Kobe ran the triangle to near perfection for over 10 years, and thrived in D'Antoni's system as well.

Tex Winter would disagree, but okay.

[Kblaze8855]

Maybe we're just old school.

I'm personally a fan of the position so I think it's should be more defined than it is today. Just because you're a primary ballhandler or listed as a PG doesn't make you an actual one.

That isnt an oldschool way of thinking. Guys we consider points have been score first for 80 years.

Bob Cousy led the NBA in FGAs while shooting like 36%. Oscar scored 30+ a game. So did West. Frazier averaged 7 assists only 2-3 times in 13 or 14 years. Being a scorer was never held against anyones point guard status until lately. Its a new school way of thinking if anything. Old school....is just guards. They didnt care what you called the positions.

The way Curry can shoot him setting someone else up instead of shooting would result in a worse offense. His team scores 116 ppg with crazy efficiency. There is nowhere to go but down if he stopped doing what hes doing. How is it being more of a point guard to make decisions likely to make your offense run worse?

Is it a point guards job to set people up or run an effective offense?

If it isnt to run an effective offense.....why isnt it?

When passing results in worse shots....why is it intelligent to pass up your shot?

[IGOTGAME]

That isnt an oldschool way of thinking. Guys we consider points have been score first for 80 years.

Bob Cousy led the NBA in FGAs while shooting like 36%. Oscar scored 30+ a game. So did West. Frazier averaged 7 assists only 2-3 times in 13 or 14 years. Being a scorer was never held against anyones point guard status until lately. Its a new school way of thinking if anything. Old school....is just guards. They didnt care what you called the positions.

The way Curry can shoot him setting someone else up instead of shooting would result in a worse offense. His team scores 116 ppg with crazy efficiency. There is nowhere to go but down if he stopped doing what hes doing. How is it being more of a point guard to make decisions likely to make your offense run worse?

Is it a point guards job to set people up or run an effective offense?

If it isnt to run an effective offense.....why isnt it?

When passing results in worse shots....why is it intelligent to pass up your shot?

explain why Harden/Bron aren't point guards but Curry is? thanks in advance.

[Kblaze8855]

he copied his messeges from the "Steph Currys numbers" thread. damn he is so mad right now. rent free.


He literally refuses to stop breaking up topics to talk about Jordan by repeating himself a dozen times. Really. He WONT stop doing it. He will take the same post and post it in multiple topics at once none of which have anything to do with Jordan and just...pretend that is acceptable.

[LoneyROY7]

That isnt an oldschool way of thinking. Guys we consider points have been score first for 80 years.

Bob Cousy led the NBA in FGAs while shooting like 36%. Oscar scored 30+ a game. So did West. Frazier averaged 7 assists only 2-3 times in 13 or 14 years. Being a scorer was never held against anyones point guard status until lately. Its a new school way of thinking if anything. Old school....is just guards. They didnt care what you called the positions.

The way Curry can shoot him setting someone else up instead of shooting would result in a worse offense. His team scores 116 ppg with crazy efficiency. There is nowhere to go but down if he stopped doing what hes doing. How is it being more of a point guard to make decisions likely to make your offense run worse?

Is it a point guards job to set people up or run an effective offense?

If it isnt to run an effective offense.....why isnt it?

When passing results in worse shots....why is it intelligent to pass up your shot?

Nailed it, KB. :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

explain why Harden/Bron aren't point guards but Curry is? thanks in advance.


You are what you are at the moment. Lebron has been a point guard. Hell he came into the league as one before they traded for Jeff Mcginnis. And at times hes played the 4. I believe he started at the 4 for an entire playoff run.

These things are an issue of the roster, offense being run, and that days gameplan.

There are times Lebron is calling and running a play from the point guards spot in a set. On that play hes a point.

If Mo Williams is doing it...hes the point.

Harden is at times the same.

Guys who play multiple roles....you could call them whatever they are at the moment. Ball handling swingmen are often that way.

Im surprised reading people claim that when ____ is isolated or dribbling hes the point guard. Often its the actual point or the coach through the point...calling a play to isolate said star so he can make something happen. That isnt that guy being a point guard....thats a point guard...running a play FOR the star. The point can call a play...and never even be involved. Point can just set the tempo and be an extension of the coaches will. The points job at the moment can be...get out of the way. Or stand over there and wait....or attack. You arent only a point when you are dribbling.

Tony Parker is at this point pretty much Pop...on the floor. Hes one of the best examples of a point guard...and he has never been a bigtime playmaker.

Curry...is pretty much always...facilitating the offense. Hes pretty much always...in the points position in his offense. I wont pretend to have an intricate understanding of their plays this season...and they dont run many plays as obvious as some teams. More of an offensive system like the triangle that does technically have plays but is more about knowing what to do at a given moment.

Its actually something like watching the 70s Knicks footage they just didnt have the 3 of course. Teams that play smart and have a lot of ball handlers, passers, and off the ball movement dont tend to have one guy piling up halfcourt assists.

What...is he supposed to be trying to drive and kick or run pick and rolls to stack assists and lead a worse offense?

Hes playing with Iggy, Green, Bogut, Klay, and so on....they share the ball....look for good shots. He brings it up and starts that. That hes often the best option because hes the best shooter who ever lived...will reduce the time hes finding someone else. But it increases the likelyhood of the offense running well.

Truly..im asking. When you are the best shooter ever and arguably the best scorer in the world...

Why would you be more of a point guard if you dont shoot....when someone else shooting is a worse shot?

Hes supposed to create worse shots...to be a better point guard?

[Gus Hemmingway]

explain why Harden/Bron aren't point guards but Curry is? thanks in advance.


Well for one, Curry will never be assigned to defend a 3, 4, or 5.

[TheImmortal]

Tier 1: Curry

Tier 2: Westbrook


the rest...



He's not a point guard.
LOL at this salty CP3 fanboy.. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Michael Jordan did too. A number of times. He wasn't a floor general though. Neither is Curry.

And Kobe was definitely a very good passer. He "ran" the Lakers offense, but he wasn't a point guard.

But Curry actually plays the position point guard.

If he's not their point guard...who is?

[Young X]

That isnt an oldschool way of thinking. Guys we consider points have been score first for 80 years.

Bob Cousy led the NBA in FGAs while shooting like 36%. Oscar scored 30+ a game. So did West. Frazier averaged 7 assists only 2-3 times in 13 or 14 years. Being a scorer was never held against anyones point guard status until lately. Its a new school way of thinking if anything. Old school....is just guards. They didnt care what you called the positions.

The way Curry can shoot him setting someone else up instead of shooting would result in a worse offense. His team scores 116 ppg with crazy efficiency. There is nowhere to go but down if he stopped doing what hes doing. How is it being more of a point guard to make decisions likely to make your offense run worse?

Is it a point guards job to set people up or run an effective offense?

If it isnt to run an effective offense.....why isnt it?

When passing results in worse shots....why is it intelligent to pass up your shot?Oscar and Cousy were the best passers and distributors of their time along with them shooting a high amount. Were they not actively looking to involve their teammates?

I never said being a scorer should be held against PG's. You're making it seem like I'm saying there is something wrong with the way Curry plays. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is there are certain traits and type of mentality a PG should have that Curry doesn't.

I still want someone to answer this: Besides what they're listed as, what makes Curry a PG and not Wade? Or Harden? Or Kobe? They've all ran effective offenses.

[buddha]

Curry is the point guard. are people really trying to argue Draymond Green is the point guard because he gets more assists?

[catch24]

He's not a point guard.

Curry is just a better scorer. We won't think any less of you by admitting Curry > CP as a player and point guard.

:confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

Kblaze toasted this thread :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

By all accounts Oscar Robertson was a prick who demeaned his teammates and would freeze them out if they let him down in any way. He got a lot of assists because he was in total control and was a brilliant passer...but he was a chore to play with. Cousy was a passer....who also shot more than anyone in the NBA despite missing 65% in a good year. There is no way in hell you would consider someone who leads the NBA in FGA while shooting terrible a point guard the way you seem you be deciding it.

You can be a point guard who almost never shoots or a point guard who almost always shoots. It has nothing to do with anything.

A point runs the offense...if the offense...the gameplan...is for him to shoot....its NOT being a point guard to pass it instead.

Its breaking the offense.

If the offense...the extension of the coaches will...is for you to isolate and go one on one 30 times straight...youre still a point guard.

If the offense is designed for you to score...and you pass because its your nature...you arent more of a point...youre a ****up.

[Kblaze8855]

I still want someone to answer this: Besides what they're listed as, what makes Curry a PG and not Wade? Or Harden? Or Kobe? They've all ran effective offenses.

Dribbling and running an offense arent the same thing.

Though they have all played point....at times. Wade was the point guard many times in his youth.

If you are playing the point...youre a point guard.

Curry currently does. Those you mention generally dont.

You dont get to choose who is and isnt a point guard any more than people get to choose if Duncan is a center or a 4. He is what hes playing at the moment.

[Heavincent]

Curry is the point guard. are people really trying to argue Draymond Green is the point guard because he gets more assists?

And many of those assists are a result of Curry getting trapped and dishing it to Green to play 4 on 3.

People really need to stop using assists as the sole factor of how good someone is at making their teammates better. Marbury had a higher assist average than Curry. Did he have a more positive impact on his teammates than Curry? **** no.

Curry creates open shots and layups for his teammates without even touching the ball. Look at this shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di8NWDo1PIc 3 guys sprint at him, creating an open layup for Green on an inbound play. There are numerous examples of this. It's basically what the Warriors offense is based around. Guys like Iguodala, Thompson and Barnes are out there taking practice shots because defenses are so worried about Steph. Bogut and Ezeli get tons of open dunks because teams trap Steph.

There are so many things Steph does for his teammates that aren't reflected in the stats.

[warriorfan]

Yes.

Harrison Barnes is a respectable shooter and all but if you watch Warrior games he is basically taking open gym shots all game.

Does anyone have Synergy stats to see how many of Barnes' Corner 3's are wide open? Or how many feet the closest defender is around Barnes when he shoots those 3's? It has to be the highest in the league...

[DMAVS41]

Oscar and Cousy were the best passers and distributors of their time along with them shooting a high amount. Were they not actively looking to involve their teammates?

I never said being a scorer should be held against PG's. You're making it seem like I'm saying there is something wrong with the way Curry plays. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is there are certain traits and type of mentality a PG should have that Curry doesn't.

I still want someone to answer this: Besides what they're listed as, what makes Curry a PG and not Wade? Or Harden? Or Kobe? They've all ran effective offenses.

The bold doesn't make sense to me....so are you saying the Warriors would be better if they played Curry at the 2 and got one of those pg's you are talking about that have what you say Curry should have?

And who is the current pg of the warriors starting 5 if Curry isn't a point?

[sd3035]

Ordan couldn't shoot the 3, that's why he couldn't win without being carried by Pippen

[Young X]

The bold doesn't make sense to me....so are you saying the Warriors would be better if they played Curry at the 2 and got one of those pg's you are talking about that have what you say Curry should have?

And who is the current pg of the warriors starting 5 if Curry isn't a point?No. 1st of all let me be clear. I'm not criticizing Curry's game or saying he should change anything. The Warriors are built perfectly around his skillset and he's playing insane.

But I don't really consider him a point guard. Not anymore than someone like Dwyane Wade. He doesn't play like one and he doesn't think like one.

[dannywpt]

OP must be high placing WB and Wall in the same tier. Westbrook and Curry are also much closer to each other than CP3 is to any of them right now.

[Kblaze8855]

I...don't think you can explain yourself. Not without a description that would remove 80% of the best points ever as well.

[notatop29pg]

I'd like to see the numbers for how many screens he gets per game. Seeing as according to most around here good players dont need screens.

[DMAVS41]

No. 1st of all let me be clear. I'm not criticizing Curry's game or saying he should change anything. The Warriors are built perfectly around his skillset and he's playing insane.

But I don't really consider him a point guard. Not anymore than someone like Dwyane Wade. He doesn't play like one and he doesn't think like one.


But why? He can't really guard other 2's....he's the size of a point, he runs the offense through him as the primary ball handler, he brings the ball up the court...etc.

Wade is a good example. He's clearly the position sg, but can also play point.

It seems like you are just being extremely narrow on what a pg should be.

I mean...if he plays point, is the size of a point, brings the ball up the court, is the primary ball handler, and runs the offense...I mean...what else do you call him?

[90sgoat]

By all accounts Oscar Robertson was a prick who demeaned his teammates and would freeze them out if they let him down in any way. He got a lot of assists because he was in total control and was a brilliant passer...but he was a chore to play with. Cousy was a passer....who also shot more than anyone in the NBA despite missing 65% in a good year. There is no way in hell you would consider someone who leads the NBA in FGA while shooting terrible a point guard the way you seem you be deciding it.

You can be a point guard who almost never shoots or a point guard who almost always shoots. It has nothing to do with anything.

A point runs the offense...if the offense...the gameplan...is for him to shoot....its NOT being a point guard to pass it instead.

Its breaking the offense.

If the offense...the extension of the coaches will...is for you to isolate and go one on one 30 times straight...youre still a point guard.

If the offense is designed for you to score...and you pass because its your nature...you arent more of a point...youre a ****up.

This topic is a pet of mine and I disagree with you and agree with the others.

First of all, you're right that there's no requirement that the smallest guard is a pass first playmaker, but if he is a 'point guard' then he should be a real pass first playmaker.

For the situations where we want to describe the smallest ballhandling guard, then you usually just denote the position by number, the '1' guard.

At its very base the 1-guard is just the best and primary ballhandler such as George Hill in Indiana or Derek Fisher in Lakers. That's just a guard who can bring the ball up under heavy on ball pressure and guard the opposite 1-guard. Ron Harper is another example.

The point guard however is a clear defined role, which in its purest essence is John Stockton, Mugsy Bogues, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd. Pass first mentality is a requirement imo to be called a point guard.

Point guards were prolific in the 80s and 90s over other eras. There were also lots of scoring point guards back then, KJ, Tim Hardaway, even Isaiah scored a lot of points, but each and every one of them was 10 apg player, which is very rare today. 10 assists pr. game is to point guards what 10 rebounds a game is to big men. A de facto requirement of the position.

You mention Oscar and West. I would say West was an obvious shooting guard who just handled the ball. Oscar was a modern player. Not much stock should be put in his assists or rebounds due to pace and ball domination. Had he played today he'd be a 30-6-6 or 30-7-7, even if you watch him you see that he was clearly a shoot first player, in many ways he was Russel Westbrook much more than he was Magic. His game was based on drives ending in jumpshots, like Westbrook.

The modern 'point guard' was called what it was for a long time in the end 90s and first 00s - the combo-guard or dubbed 1.5 guard. The first guy to play and completely define this role was Allen Iverson who was paired up with a larger defensive guard. All subsequent guards like Curry, Irving, Lillard are there because of Allen Iverson.

As I've proven in the past, ball dominant primary score small comboguards very rarely win championships. It has basically only happened once in the last 20 years. Oscar couldn't win with that playstyle either, neither could West. Iverson couldn't win etc. Westbrook can't win.

The current reason for the popularity of the comboguard is mostly because of the rules which increasingly resemble FIBA 90s soft game, where if you check, most of the guards in FIBA back then were also comboguards or just 'guards'.

[Young X]

But why? He can't really guard other 2's....he's the size of a point, he runs the offense through him as the primary ball handler, he brings the ball up the court...etc.

Wade is a good example. He's clearly the position sg, but can also play point.

It seems like you are just being extremely narrow on what a pg should be.

I mean...if he plays point, is the size of a point, brings the ball up the court, is the primary ball handler, and runs the offense...I mean...what else do you call him?I think a PG's role should be more defined than it currently is. It shouldn't just be about being of a certain size and the primary ballhandler. It should be more about play style and mentality. Iverson, alot of times in his career did exactly what you said...but was he a PG? Was Gilbert Arenas really a PG even though he was listed as one?

[DMAVS41]

I think a PG's role should be more defined than it currently is. It shouldn't just be about being of a certain size and the primary ballhandler. It should be more about play style and mentality. Iverson, alot of times in his career did exactly what you said...but was he a PG? Was Gilbert Arenas really a PG even though he was listed as one?

It depends on the team.

I mean...this would make sense if the Warriors had another guy doing this more defined role, but I don't see how one can say Curry doesn't play pg for the Warriors.

I keep trying to figure this out.

If the pg is not Curry...who is playing pg for this team?

[Milbuck]

I think a PG's role should be more defined than it currently is. It shouldn't just be about being of a certain size and the primary ballhandler. It should be more about play style and mentality. Iverson, alot of times in his career did exactly what you said...but was he a PG? Was Gilbert Arenas really a PG even though he was listed as one?
He's the primary ballhandler, he's the primary facilitator, brings the ball up the court, initiates the offense, is the go-to fallback option to reset the offense when things go wrong. He runs the offense differently from most point guards but he still runs the offense.

The only thing preventing you from considering him a true point guard is his insane combination of shooting ability, off-ball movement and quick decision making skills on the catch, which allows him to maximize the playmaking capacity of his team. Draymond, Iggy, Bogut, Livingston, etc playing alongside a ball-dominant "true" point guard would not be showcased anywhere nearly as much as playmakers as they are next to Curry. Golden State's offense runs the way it does because of Curry...their style doesn't mean Curry isn't a point guard, it just means his diverse skill-set allow him to play outside of the box that most point guards have to play in.

[Young X]

It depends on the team.

I mean...this would make sense if the Warriors had another guy doing this more defined role, but I don't see how one can say Curry doesn't play pg for the Warriors.

I keep trying to figure this out.

If the pg is not Curry...who is playing pg for this team?Technically Curry, but I just don't consider his style of play specifically this season that of a PG.

How many possessions do you see him with the intention of setting up a teammate? He has a Kobe/Melo type usage rate.

[DMAVS41]

Technically Curry, but I just don't consider his style of play specifically this season that of a PG.

How many possessions do you see him with the intention of setting up a teammate? He has a Kobe/Melo type usage rate.

I don't think usage rate determines what position you play.

[knicksman]

Curry is now a scorer. Hes not anymore a pg. With his stats right now. Hes the best scorer in fact better than jordan yet hes a pg. Curry knows its hard to win as a pg. The last time a pg won was in the 80s while scorers dominate the top 10 ATG.

[knicksman]

It depends on the team.

I mean...this would make sense if the Warriors had another guy doing this more defined role, but I don't see how one can say Curry doesn't play pg for the Warriors.

I keep trying to figure this out.

If the pg is not Curry...who is playing pg for this team?

the pg role is shared. they do equal opportunity offense like triangle or spurs

[warriorfan]

not a point guard but a point GOD :bowdown:

[juju151111]

Curry is now a scorer. Hes not anymore a pg. With his stats right now. Hes the best scorer in fact better than jordan yet hes a pg. Curry knows its hard to win as a pg. The last time a pg won was in the 80s while scorers dominate the top 10 ATG.
The last time a point guard won was last year. Jason kidd went to back to back finals

[knicksman]

The last time a point guard won was last year. Jason kidd went to back to back finals

For me, curry is a scorer. In the reg season he is a pg. But the guy is prime wade good in the playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

This topic is a pet of mine and I disagree with you and agree with the others.

First of all, you're right that there's no requirement that the smallest guard is a pass first playmaker, but if he is a 'point guard' then he should be a real pass first playmaker.

Based on what? You thinking it?

It sure isnt based on the way the best players in question play.


For the situations where we want to describe the smallest ballhandling guard, then you usually just denote the position by number, the '1' guard.

At its very base the 1-guard is just the best and primary ballhandler such as George Hill in Indiana or Derek Fisher in Lakers. That's just a guard who can bring the ball up under heavy on ball pressure and guard the opposite 1-guard. Ron Harper is another example.

The point guard however is a clear defined role, which in its purest essence is John Stockton, Mugsy Bogues, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd. Pass first mentality is a requirement imo to be called a point guard.

It can be your opinion all you like. It most certiantly is not a requirment to be or be called a point and never will. I can say a small forward should be able to shoot, defend the 2, 3, and 4 and in a pinch setup others to score. Doesnt mean my ideal matters more than the reality that the position is as varied as the styles of those who play it.


Point guards were prolific in the 80s and 90s over other eras. There were also lots of scoring point guards back then, KJ, Tim Hardaway, even Isaiah scored a lot of points, but each and every one of them was 10 apg player, which is very rare today. 10 assists pr. game is to point guards what 10 rebounds a game is to big men. A de facto requirement of the position.

I cant even explain all the things wrong with that in my eyes. I'll give you a pretty big one though...

There are like 25 people....ever...who averaged 10 assists a game. The idea that only a couple dozen people have ever been point guards is just...know what? Im gonna move on.




You mention Oscar and West. I would say West was an obvious shooting guard who just handled the ball. Oscar was a modern player. Not much stock should be put in his assists or rebounds due to pace and ball domination. Had he played today he'd be a 30-6-6 or 30-7-7, even if you watch him you see that he was clearly a shoot first player, in many ways he was Russel Westbrook much more than he was Magic. His game was based on drives ending in jumpshots, like Westbrook.

Jerry West led the NBA in assists. If he didnt hit 10 a game he was damn close. And he did it when it wasnt an assist if you dribbled first. Meaning he probably aveaged 12+ the way we measure them.

And Oscar led the NBA in assists like 6 times and had the highest career average ever till Stockton and Magic came along with the inflated 80s/early 90s west assist numbers.



The modern 'point guard' was called what it was for a long time in the end 90s and first 00s - the combo-guard or dubbed 1.5 guard. The first guy to play and completely define this role was Allen Iverson who was paired up with a larger defensive guard. All subsequent guards like Curry, Irving, Lillard are there because of Allen Iverson.

Dude....

World B Free, Gus Williams, Dave Bing, Pistol Pete, Earl Monroe, Jojo White, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Downtown Freddie Brown, Joe Dumars...hell you could say West, Frank Selvy, and rod Hundley were all combo guards, points, or shooting guards on the same team depending on the year.

Combo guards have existed a long long time. And if not called it you can watch old team videos and hear them describe them. Old NBA videos like...for example..."Tall men of Baltimore" where they cover the 60s Bullets. You can see and hear them describe combo guards way back.


As I've proven in the past, ball dominant primary score small comboguards very rarely win championships. It has basically only happened once in the last 20 years. Oscar couldn't win with that playstyle either, neither could West. Iverson couldn't win etc. Westbrook can't win.

Ignoring for a moment that 2 of the 4 people you mentioned actually won titles....and that the retired one that didnt was never on a team that should have even been close, and the active one has already made the finals and could do anything in the future....

There is a lot more evidence scoring guards win than so called pure points. A team has not been led to a title by a guard who didnt look to score a lot since Tricky Dick Mcguire in the early 50s.

Did I miss when Stockton, Mark Jackson, Kevin Porter, Muggsy, and the like won rings?

Scoring points take team to titles...when a guard who doesnt look to score wins...its because he isnt his teams key player. Straight up playmakers win in Avery Johnson roles. You dont power your team to the title by passing. Even those who could score and stuck to mostly making plays like Nash...

Teams built that way just dont tend to win.



The current reason for the popularity of the comboguard is mostly because of the rules which increasingly resemble FIBA 90s soft game, where if you check, most of the guards in FIBA back then were also comboguards or just 'guards'.

Most guards ever have been just "guards".

There was a point the Suns has KJ, Kidd, and Nash...and played all 3 together.

Guys just are what their skills and teammates require at the moment.

The point like every other position....is whatever the offense and defense requires of it at the moment. And its as varied as the skillsets of those who play it.