T-Wolves 1-6 without R.Rubio

[Giaodollo]

And 7-4 with him...

So tell me more about how much he sucks.

[Milbuck]

The only people hating on him are stat whores and Euroleague. I don't know how anyone who has actually seen what the TWolves look like with him vs without him on court can think the guy isn't good.

[TaLvsCuaL]

His impact is definitely underrated, most people refuse to give value to intangibles

[ProfessorMurder]

Swap him with Rondo and the Wolves are way better.

[Giaodollo]

Swap him with Rondo and the Wolves are way better.

No, Rondo is the most overrated PG in the league. Plays for stats, etc. I mean some would say that a supposed top 10 pg and the best center in the league, mind you the most dominant offensive center since Shaq should be enough to at least have +50.0% record, but nope, not even that is manageable.

I think, it is time to realize what most basketball purist has said all along, Rondo is decent but he is not even close to being a top 10 pg.

[FireDavidKahn]

Swap him with Rondo and the Wolves are way better.
No:oldlol:

Rondo is a cancer.

[outbreak]

The only people hating on him are stat whores and Euroleague. I don't know how anyone who has actually seen what the TWolves look like with him vs without him on court can think the guy isn't good.
This.

He will never be the best player in the league and he'll never be a great scorer. But basketball is a team game and if you can find ways to make your team better then you can be a good player on the right team. If he were on a team with no offensive options he'd suck but on a team with other scorers he can make them better by facilitating them.

[dhsilv]

And 7-4 with him...

So tell me more about how much he sucks.

Those attacking him don't understand the game at all.

[SwishSquared]

He gets slept on b/c he's missed lots of games and is a poor shooter for a position we all want to be effective shooters. His passing is elite and he's great on D.

I think one misleading thing about the record w/o him is the insufficient PG rotation behind him. Lavine shouldn't get mins @ PG unless you want to tank. Tyus Jones is a rookie and Andre Miller has 1 foot in the door as a professor.

[Nick Young]

He sucks because he's made of glass and constantly missing a long string of games.

[I<3NBA]

while i agree Rubio is better for the Wolves, I would say their losing record without him is more because of Lavine (who fkng sucks to unbelievable depths) and whoever else is behind him.

give the Wolves a decent back up PG like Lin and i'd say the drop-off wouldn't be as much.

but Lavine? really?

[FireDavidKahn]

while i agree Rubio is better for the Wolves, I would say their losing record without him is more because of Lavine (who fkng sucks to unbelievable depths) and whoever else is behind him.

give the Wolves a decent back up PG like Lin and i'd say the drop-off wouldn't be as much.

but Lavine? really?
Lavine doesn't " fkng sucks to unbelievable depths".

Last year he was arguably one of the worst players in the NBA. Surprisingly he has been a POSITIVE when he is on the floor as a SG. He is even only a slightly below average defender now.

The guys progression has been astronomical. He still takes some very very stupid shots but he was helped the team this year instead of being a huge detriment like last year.

But in a way you're right, Lavine should be no where near the PG spot. He can put up stats and be a great contributor when he is playing the two, but he sucks ass as a PG. Playing him where he sucks is more on Mitchell than Zach though.

[Akrazotile]

I don't doubt that he's a valuable player to them during the regular season, when minimal game-planning is done by opponents.

Against good teams in the playoffs who have lots of time to game-plan, there are two types of players who can turn into liabilities: Chuckers (a la kobe) or guys who can't shoot at all (like Rubio). Teams can tempt or force guys like this to shoot and it can be a problem.

So until the Wolves make the playoffs and Rubio proves me wrong, I'll be skeptical. It's nothin personal. Just being objective.

[IGOTGAME]

I don't doubt that he's a valuable player to them during the regular season, when minimal game-planning is done by opponents.

Against good teams in the playoffs who have lots of time to game-plan, there are two types of players who can turn into liabilities: Chuckers (a la kobe) or guys who can't shoot at all (like Rubio). Teams can tempt or force guys like this to shoot and it can be a problem.

So until the Wolves make the playoffs and Rubio proves me wrong, I'll be skeptical. It's nothin personal. Just being objective.

Yea...those are the only two types of players...

[el gringos]

while i agree Rubio is better for the Wolves, I would say their losing record without him is more because of Lavine (who fkng sucks to unbelievable depths) and whoever else is behind him.

give the Wolves a decent back up PG like Lin and i'd say the drop-off wouldn't be as much.

but Lavine? really?
Lavine
For
Calderon


Both teams win?

[FireDavidKahn]

Lavine
For
Calderon


Both teams win?
:lol Hell no

[JtotheIzzo]

Lavine doesn't " fkng sucks to unbelievable depths".

Last year he was arguably one of the worst players in the NBA. Surprisingly he has been a POSITIVE when he is on the floor as a SG. He is even only a slightly below average defender now.

The guys progression has been astronomical. He still takes some very very stupid shots but he was helped the team this year instead of being a huge detriment like last year.

But in a way you're right, Lavine should be no where near the PG spot. He can put up stats and be a great contributor when he is playing the two, but he sucks ass as a PG. Playing him where he sucks is more on Mitchell than Zach though.

Lavine is a horrid defender, don't fall into stat traps. When you watch the games, countless midlevel guys (Jeff Teague for example) absolute go off when Lavine is on them. Lavine is constantly guilty of matador (OLE!) defense and not knowing where he is in the defensive scheme or on helpside.

He puts up decent numbers, but they aren't due to winning basketball and usually come at the expense of KAT touches and sometimes Wiggins touches.

If he could play defense at a mediocre level (as you profess) the drop off sans Rubio wouldn't be so steep.

I am in the middle on this issue. I think Rubio is good for the Wolves, but his ability to stay healthy is problematic.

I think the sooner they get someone decent for Lavine + + the better.

[FireDavidKahn]

Lavine is a horrid defender, don't fall into stat traps. When you watch the games, countless midlevel guys (Jeff Teague for example) absolute go off when Lavine is on them. Lavine is constantly guilty of matador (OLE!) defense and not knowing where he is in the defensive scheme or on helpside.

He puts up decent numbers, but they aren't due to winning basketball and usually come at the expense of KAT touches and sometimes Wiggins touches.

If he could play defense at a mediocre level (as you profess) the drop off sans Rubio wouldn't be so steep.

I am in the middle on this issue. I think Rubio is good for the Wolves, but his ability to stay healthy is problematic.

I think the sooner they get someone decent for Lavine + + the better.You're view of Lavine is based off of him playing PG. And the +/- for him at the PG spot reflect the fact he CANNOT run an offense. When he is heading the offense our overall offense grinds to a halt. When he is put at the two, which you didn't address, he does just fine. All of the Wolves est lineups have had Zach at the two playing alongside a PG, whether it's Rubio or Miller.

The guy is averaging 21/6/5 per 36 for crying out loud.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2015/11/25/9746444/so-many-details-lavine-has-become-the-most-divisive-player-in

The sample size is small, but the juice appears to be worth the squeeze. In 47 minutes on the floor together the Rubio/LaVine backcourt is posting a net rating of +42.8 per 100 possessions.That's the best net rating of any two man lineup on the team, directly supporting the eye test that LaVine looks best when paired with Rubio instead of navigating his way through the chaos brought about as the teams backup point guard.


One look at LaVine's advanced shot dashboard provides even more evidence that he should be logging a majority of his minutes at shooting guard, rather than 78% of them at point guard. He's seriously effective in catch-and-shoot situations along with possessions when he uses zero dribbles. His effective field goal percentage explodes

http://i65.tinypic.com/1eb09k.png

I have watched every Wolves game and Zach has been critical for a few or our wins. Stop parroting what you heard last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2016&year_max=2016&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=per&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

Zach is also currently 23rd in PER among guards/guard-forwards @ 18.1, up from being 86th worst @ 11.3 PER.


So ya, keep hating:D

[CarlosBoozer]

No playmaker without rubio, lavine is a sg and should always be.

[Euroleague]

The only people hating on him are stat whores and Euroleague. I don't know how anyone who has actually seen what the TWolves look like with him vs without him on court can think the guy isn't good.

Spanoulis > Giannis Airball Antetokounmpo > Bricky Pubio

https://media4.giphy.com/media/10YDcM18KiVPO0/200.gif

[Funktion]

Rubio put together a string of decent games to start the season then they started giving Lavine a chunk of his minutes to get him "experience". Sucks for Rubio.

[JtotheIzzo]

You're view of Lavine is based off of him playing PG. And the +/- for him at the PG spot reflect the fact he CANNOT run an offense. When he is heading the offense our overall offense grinds to a halt. When he is put at the two, which you didn't address, he does just fine. All of the Wolves est lineups have had Zach at the two playing alongside a PG, whether it's Rubio or Miller.

The guy is averaging 21/6/5 per 36 for crying out loud.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2015/11/25/9746444/so-many-details-lavine-has-become-the-most-divisive-player-in




http://i65.tinypic.com/1eb09k.png

I have watched every Wolves game and Zach has been critical for a few or our wins. Stop parroting what you heard last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2016&year_max=2016&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=per&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=per

Zach is also currently 23rd in PER among guards/guard-forwards @ 18.1, up from being 86th worst @ 11.3 PER.


So ya, keep hating:D

Its not hating, he just doesn't have the bball IQ and defensive desire to be in a core 3 of a championship contender.

Wiggins and KAT are the two best building blocks of the last two seasons, and Minnesota have them both. They have played together a long time (both born in 1995 and played in many youth all star games). They both like each other and like their situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoHfZOdh2pk

The third member of this core is critical. Ideally plucking another stud out of the lottery would be gold but it looks like Minnesotas pick might be in the teens, so it might have to be a trade or FA pickup, but FAs are lukewarm towards Minny.

SO, it comes down to a difference of opinion, Lavine now, or something better later. I am hoping for the latter, as I think settling for Lavine is a mistake.

[el gringos]

No playmaker without rubio, lavine is a sg and should always be.
His highest ceiling is at guard. They're doing the right thing developing instead of just taking the easy way out.

[LAZERUSS]

I have to admit, they do seem to play much better with him, than without.
Too bad he is so injury-prone, though.

[FireDavidKahn]

Its not hating, he just doesn't have the bball IQ and defensive desire to be in a core 3 of a championship contender.

Wiggins and KAT are the two best building blocks of the last two seasons, and Minnesota have them both. They have played together a long time (both born in 1995 and played in many youth all star games). They both like each other and like their situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoHfZOdh2pk

The third member of this core is critical. Ideally plucking another stud out of the lottery would be gold but it looks like Minnesotas pick might be in the teens, so it might have to be a trade or FA pickup, but FAs are lukewarm towards Minny.

SO, it comes down to a difference of opinion, Lavine now, or something better later. I am hoping for the latter, as I think settling for Lavine is a mistake.
Wolves won't ever have a "big three" like Boston/Heat/Cavs. But we do have a chance to have a "super two". Both Towns and Wiggins have the ability to be top 10 or even top 5 players and they both will hit it, assuming they develop like that, at the same time.

We got two future superstars in Towns and Wiggins and surrounding them with adequate talent should be enough to have the Wolves be contenders for years when both Wiggins and Towns start hitting their primes.

Rubio, Zach and Bjelica are definite keepers for the future. Although we do need to get a good back up PG since Rubio is injury prone.

Shabazz is a blackhole and only looks for himself, which is fine when we need scoring - he can usually deliver. He isn't the highest priority but no reason to get rid of him.

Dieng is well, deceiving. He is currently allowing 75% of field goals attempted within 6 feet of the hoop to go in, trailing only Bargnani or big men....

The rest can go.

[Fudge]

And 7-4 with him...

So tell me more about how much he sucks.
He sucks.