I'd like to share my honest thoughts on Kobe.

[Akrazotile]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!

[Cocaine80s]

http://columbiaspectator.com/sites/default/files/ANIMATION420TIME.gif

[iamgine]

The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing.
TBH the main reason is 5 rings as main contributor.

Had Hakeem the one played for the Bulls and MJ for the Rockets, clearly Hakeem would've been the one winning multiple titles and MJ wouldn't be GOAT.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I do agree with a lot of your points, but I do rank him higher than you do. He does have it all, and his peak was pretty damn solid.

-Rings
-MVP/2FMVPs
-81 points
-Scoring titles
-All defense
-Longevity
-35 ppg

He's still a top 10 player in my book, but I think people are crazy to put him in the top 5.

[Nick Young]

blah blahblahblah
http://media1.giphy.com/media/8fxad4tvqIzwk/giphy.gif

[GIF REACTION]

Excellent passage m'lord. Straight from King James Bible. Phelicians 2;14-15

[Mr. Jabbar]

I speak for the whole human race when I say:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6FyHG5mNpWI/UFBLCacNPgI/AAAAAAAAC1k/dLltLbpl2Ns/s1600/gangnam-style-didn't-read-lol.gif

[stalkerforlife]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!

Now that's a phucking meltdown. :lol

[Akrazotile]

TBH the main reason is 5 rings as main contributor.

Had Hakeem the one played for the Bulls and MJ for the Rockets, clearly Hakeem would've been the one winning multiple titles and MJ wouldn't be GOAT.


"main contributor"?


What does that mean, exactly? James Posey was a HUGE contributor on two title teams. Like, both teams WOULD NOT have won without him. Period. Does this make him better than Jeff Hornacek? Horny has zero rings as a "main contributor." But Horny made an all-star team and Posey didn't. None of this has any bearing on who was a better player than whom. All-star games are a popularity contest. Rings are a matter of circumstance. Comparing guys by GAME is the only meaningful criteria.

Seriously, how do you decide who is the "main contributor?" If you just simply use point totals, you completely whiff. For instance, Chauncey Billups was a more IMPORTANT player on the Nuggets than Carmelo. But Carmelo scored more ppg. Was he the "main contributor?" It's a completely arbitrary and meaningless designation. The team wasn't actually reliant on Melo's scoring, he just did it because he was the designated "star" so he took a bunch of shots. Same often happened with Kobe.

Honestly, it's just simplified rhetoric made for people to repeat. It actually means nothing.

[Magic 32]

http://columbiaspectator.com/sites/default/files/ANIMATION420TIME.gif

I think cannabis would do wonders for you.

[Mr Feeny]

I think cannabis would do wonders for you.

You, on the other hand, would need something much, much stronger:lol

[GIF REACTION]

OP, I've rated this 5 stars. I truly believe in what you've written. This has been rated 5 stars.

[Akrazotile]

OP, I've rated this 5 stars. I truly believe in what you've written. This has been rated 5 stars.

Thanks, bro. I did too. We know what's up.

[CJ Mustard]

Well ****ing said. Post of the year candidate.

[Mr Feeny]

Well ****ing said. Post of the year candidate.

Beautiful. Lovely too see this type of positive reinforcement by sensible posters.

[JebronLames]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!
Best post in the history of ISH! :applause: :bowdown:

[iamgine]

"main contributor"?


What does that mean, exactly? James Posey was a HUGE contributor on two title teams. Like, both teams WOULD NOT have won without him. Period. Does this make him better than Jeff Hornacek? Horny has zero rings as a "main contributor." But Horny made an all-star team and Posey didn't.

How does this work? How do you decide who is the "main contributor?" If you just simply use point totals, you completely whiff. For instance, Chauncey Billups was a more IMPORTANT player on the Nuggets than Carmelo. But Carmelo scored more ppg. Was he the "main contributor?" It's a completely arbitrary and meaningless designation.
It means he's not just a role player like Ariza or Posey or Rodman or Horry (whose teams wouldn't have won without him too). But the team considers him their top player or near that.

[Mr Feeny]

It means he's not just a role player like Ariza or Posey or Rodman or Horry (whose teams wouldn't have won without him too). But the team considers him their top player or near that.

Except that he IS a supporting cast player. Just like Horry was. Shaq was the lead dog carrying all of them supporting cast sub-46%fg shooters.

[iamgine]

Except that he IS a supporting cast player. Just like Horry was. Shaq was the lead dog carrying all of them supporting cast sub-46%fg shooters.
:ohwell:

[Akrazotile]

It means he's not just a role player like Ariza or Posey or Rodman or Horry (whose teams wouldn't have won without him too). But the team considers him their top player or near that.


So who was the Celtics "main player" in 2008?

Do Allen, Pierce, and Garnett all get a "main contributor" ring credit? They all played critical roles. Does that make all of them better than Malone or Durant or tied with Jerry West?

We've seen guys like Kareem miss the playoffs in their prime. If he is the "main reason" a team can win a title, how could it be that other times he can't even make the playoffs?

The fact is, teams win titles because they play the best as a team. Not because one guy played better than everyone else. Every year great players fall short of the finals, because their team simply didnt play as well overall as another team. Giving some sort of "credit" to one guy for being on a great team is just a logical fallacy. It's a useless means of comparison.

[WadeBronDonJuan]

Beautiful. Lovely too see this type of positive reinforcement by sensible posters.

When I see grown adults who still do not know how to properly use the words "to" and "too" in the correct context, I know I'm dealing with some idiots.

[Mr Feeny]

When I see grown adults who still do not know how to properly use the words "to" and "too" in the correct context, I know I'm dealing with some idiots.

How free is my rent.

[ImKobe]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!

Ok, so he has less impact than Kidd & D-Rob, Stockton, Barkley who couldn't win shit with great teams during their primes, but somehow he has 5 rings and was the best player in 5 out of 7 Finals runs on his team.. how is it that he only needed one all-star player to win back-to-back titles while those other guys you mentioned failed to make Playoff runs in their primes with multiple all-stars? I guess Nash was also a more valuable player than Kobe because he wasn't a chucker.

Terrible how you compare him to Joe Johnson and Kevin Love, who could never put up big numbers in Finals runs like Kobe has.

2001: 32/7/6 against the West, 11 - 0 W/L ~10 ppg 4th quarter average, better efficiency than prime Shaq, leads the most dominant PO team of all-time in winshares
2008-10: 30/6/6, 2x Finals MVP, 2008 0 all-star players yet almost took the most stacked team of his era to 7 games with 2 key players out, legendary 2009 and 2010 WCF numbers that are on par with best Playoff series numbers from MJ..

His Playoff resume is what puts him in the top 10 category, 2001-13 regular seasons also back up his consistency despite all the injuries along the way..

Many of y'all weren't even around when he was at his best and have probably only been following the NBA for the last 3-4 yrs so you have no idea how great he really was except for a few YT clips you might have seen.

[Mr Feeny]

Ok, so he has less impact than Kidd & D-Rob, Stockton, Barkley who couldn't win shit with great teams during their primes, but somehow he has 5 rings and was the best player in 5 out of 7 Finals runs on his team.. how is it that he only needed one all-star player to win back-to-back titles while those other guys you mentioned failed to make Playoff runs in their primes with multiple all-stars? I guess Nash was also a more valuable player than Kobe because he wasn't a chucker.

Terrible how you compare him to Joe Johnson and Kevin Love, who could never put up big numbers in Finals runs like Kobe has.

2001: 32/7/6 against the West, 11 - 0 W/L ~10 ppg 4th quarter average, better efficiency than prime Shaq, leads the most dominant PO team of all-time in winshares
2008-10: 30/6/6, 2x Finals MVP, 2008 0 all-star players yet almost took the most stacked team of his era to 7 games with 2 key players out, legendary 2009 and 2010 WCF numbers that are on par with best Playoff series numbers from MJ..

His Playoff resume is what puts him in the top 10 category, 2001-13 regular seasons also back up his consistency despite all the injuries along the way..

Many of y'all weren't even around when he was at his best and have probably only been following the NBA for the last 3-4 yrs so you have no idea how great he really was except for a few YT clips you might have seen.
What we're his finals numbers? And his fg%?

[iamgine]

So who was the Celtics "main player" in 2008?

Do Allen, Pierce, and Garnett all get a "main contributor" ring credit? They all played critical roles. Does that make all of them better than Malone or Durant or tied with Jerry West?

We've seen guys like Kareem miss the playoffs in their prime. If he is the "main reason" a team can win a title, how could it be that other times he can't even make the playoffs?

The fact is, teams win titles because they play the best as a team. Not because one guy played better than everyone else. Every year great players fall short of the finals, because their team simply didnt play as well overall as another team. Giving some sort of "credit" to one guy for being on a great team is just a logical fallacy. It's a useless means of comparison.
You said "Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing."

Um no the main reason for that is he has 5 rings as main contributor.

[STATUTORY]

such a reactionary position, so because some people might overrate him that justify taking completely nonsensical positions like he's not top 20 in term of impact? even the advanced stats you cite don't back that up.

[Rocketswin2013]

He's arguably top 10. Very likely top 15.

His ceiling is at the very end of the top 10. Maybe #8 or #9. You'd really have to value his defense for something like that IMO.

[Mr Feeny]

such a reactionary position, so because some people might overrate him that justify taking completely nonsensical positions like he's not top 20 in term of impact? even the advanced stats you cite don't back that up.I think if we're being very fair he's around 17th best all time.

[Akrazotile]

Ok, so he has less impact than Kidd & D-Rob, Stockton, Barkley who couldn't win shit with great teams during their primes, but somehow he has 5 rings and was the best player in 5 out of 7 Finals runs on his team.. how is it that he only needed one all-star player to win back-to-back titles while those other guys you mentioned failed to make Playoff runs in their primes with multiple all-stars? I guess Nash was also a more valuable player than Kobe because he wasn't a chucker.

Terrible how you compare him to Joe Johnson and Kevin Love, who could never put up big numbers in Finals runs like Kobe has.

2001: 32/7/6 against the West, 11 - 0 W/L ~10 ppg 4th quarter average, better efficiency than prime Shaq, leads the most dominant PO team of all-time in winshares
2008-10: 30/6/6, 2x Finals MVP, 2008 0 all-star players yet almost took the most stacked team of his era to 7 games with 2 key players out, legendary 2009 and 2010 WCF numbers that are on par with best Playoff series numbers from MJ..

His Playoff resume is what puts him in the top 10 category, 2001-13 regular seasons also back up his consistency despite all the injuries along the way..

Many of y'all weren't even around when he was at his best and have probably only been following the NBA for the last 3-4 yrs so you have no idea how great he really was except for a few YT clips you might have seen.


Actually, this is a true story, when KG won MVP my friend (my 'black friend' actually :lol ) was a big KG fan and he was all pumped, and I was like nahh man, Kobe shoulda won it, he has crazy game. I can still remember it quite clearly. But this was when I was in high school and really just watched the players aesthetics and didnt analyze it much. Kobe scored so many points in such a pretty way. But the truth about basketball is just bc a player scores a lot, it doesnt mean his team RELIES on him. We see this with the fact Kobes team wins when he shots less. Their record with him is about the same percentage as without him. Hes not a critically impactful guy. The real difference makers either do a ton of overall shit like Lebron and Tim, or are super efficient scorers like Dirk and Durant and Curry. Kobe is not as impactful as any of those guys. He has too many bad shooting nights. And even his high point total games arent that efficient. His aesthetics fool people about his impact.

[Akrazotile]

such a reactionary position, so because some people might overrate him that justify taking completely nonsensical positions like he's not top 20 in term of impact? even the advanced stats you cite don't back that up.


I didnt cite specific advanced stats. Winshares gives guys credit for being on good teams. PER doesnt include defense. "Expected Championships Added" is some kind of satire.

The thing is, advanced stats drop Kobe lower than raw stats. But theyre still BASED entirely on stats, and Kobe does gun for stats. So while they expose his inefficiency, there's still an inflated component. They dont take intangibles and eye test into it. When you add that, for me it drops him even further bc he puts himself before the team, is horribly unclutch, is a corpse on defense (even in the second title run), and just isnt a consistent shooter.

[DoctorP]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!


Funny, this was my opinion of Kobe until I started appreciating his skills in his later years. I'm still shocked he has been as huge of a ***** as he has been acting lately. He could just adjust his shot and try to play through his scrubness.

He's a spoiled cLint and has always acted like one but I like him anyways.

[LeBird]

Gather round, children. I'm going to make a for serious post about #8/24. This isn't a clowning thread and I will not just relentlessly bash him for lulz, so mods if you decide to delete some of the Kobe topics please keep this one.


As you know, I don't really rank Kobe that highly. I don't think he maximizes his basketball team. To me that's the most important measure of a player's value. Dirk Nowitzki's not an assist machine, he's a shooter, but he takes the right shots to maximize his skillset and help the team. Andre Iguodala doesn't put up 25 ppg and he's had a great career, was just crowned FMVP . Do I think he ranks significantly lower than Kobe Bryant in terms of basketball game impact? No. And the real fact is, he doesn't.

All the data of today shows that raw point totals don't measure a player's value. Every year some guys put up big numbers. Love did it. Joe Johnson's done it. Without context it means nothing except you take a lot of shots. Especially on Kobe's efficiency, which is not special for an all-time great. Kobe doesnt have more game impact than guys like DRob or Stockton. In fact, with an average cast, you're going to have better chances with those guys. Or a Jason Kidd. Put guys like Kidd and Dirk together, they win a title. Put Rob with Duncan, they win a title. Wade and Bron. Magic and Kareem. Titles are a team achievement. Kobe played with Shaq and Pau. It's not a slight, it just means he had great opportunities. "Kobe" did not win championships. The team he was on did. This isn't just rhetoric, it's true. And it can happen to anyone. Horry. Bird. Fisher. Hondo. Earving. Cassell. Jordan. Kukoc. Dumars. Anyone 1-12 can end up with rings. Picking guys arbitrarily and saying "I count his" is for retards. Truly. People who count rings to ANY significant degree for individuals are truly ignoramuses. I understand why the stans do it. Anyone else should be embarrassed. It shows a weak intellect.


Kobe always has to make the game about him. He would rather take 5 bad shots so that people will admire the one he does make, than pass 5 times and have others make 3 or 4 of them. And as a result of this, he's built himself up quite a highlight reel. And he's fooled basically the masses into overestimating his value. I don't begrudge him that. People gonna people. Sportscenter tells you this guy is top 10, they show a carefully edited reel of only the tough (and dumb) shots he did make, and the average shmoe thinks "wow, thats how teh basketball is played good, kobe is top 10!"

He's not better than KG or Barkley. He just isn't. "Rings" and "81 points" are flash, they're not substance. They're fool's gold, and that's why you hear fools talk about them.

Honestly after the top dozen or so players who were truly transcendent, elite, irreplaceable guys... it becomes VERY interchangeable. If people who never saw Russell play can count him in a top 10, what makes you so sure Oscar isn't better than Kobe? Nothing. You're just repeating society's consensus. It's a bunch of hollow words. The reason Kobe appears to be above guys like Isiah Thomas or McHale or Jerry West is because Kobe has put more effort than anyone in NBA history INTO making himself look good. Everyone else just plays. Kobe's always posturing. And the simple people just kind of eat it up.

Congratulations to Kobe on a long NBA career. I'm genuinely happy for his success because he seems like a chill dude outside the vanity. Smart, cultured, sense of humor, good dad. I like him. It's honestly just the flat ignorance and, I guess, 'gullibility' that you see en masse when it comes to people talking about him. The blindness that goes into the hero complex irks me on a social level, but I can't really blame Kobe for that whole thing.


So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!

:applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Funny, this was my opinion of Kobe until I started appreciating his skills in his later years. I'm still shocked he has been as huge of a ***** as he has been acting lately. He could just adjust his shot and try to play through his scrubness.

He's a spoiled cLint and always has acted like one but I like him anyways.

Agreed. He's insanely selfish. Watching him bricking ever shot out there is downright repulsive.

[theaussieguy]

Im a huge Kobe fan, hes just a likeable guy and I will always remember him for hitting that huge deep 3 at a crucial point in the finals that made even D wade shake his head in disbelief. Despite that, what OP says is true. Kobe has never shot over 40% from 3 in a season. He was great at making tough shots because for every 4 he missed he still had the greenlight to keep trying.

[Mr Feeny]

Im a huge Kobe fan, hes just a likeable guy and I will always remember him for hitting that huge deep 3 at a crucial point in the finals that made even D wade shake his head in disbelief. Despite that, what OP says is true. Kobe has never shot over 40% from 3 in a season. He was great at making tough shots because for every 4 he missed he still had the greenlight to keep trying.

What a beautiful second half of a post!

[I<3NBA]

i can't really consider him an all-time great, because ultimately, at his peak, he couldn't carry his team to the playoffs.

everyone of his rings was won due to big man help.

his style of play is anathema to basketball and it's just funny his stans are now latching on to Curry when in fact, Curry plays the exact opposite of Kobe.

hopefully, when he's gone, simple minded fools will finally realize basketball is a team sport. he stands for everything basketball should not be. because of him, millions of kids grew up with a warped understanding of basketball.

all those shoot-first, no pass kids you see at the playground are prolly all Kobe stans.

[SwayDizzle]

the usual suspects circle jerking

[SexSymbol]

So ultimately, he's SEVERELY overrated. Truly. Like, he's not really a top 20 impact guy, and nothing else actually matters. Rings, phony All-D teams, scowling, 81 points, all that stuff is for the shallow minded fan. But it's been fun having him around as a lightning rod regardless. Best wishes to you in future endeavors, Black Mamba!
What a stupid statement :D
Do you just wake up everyday thinking "I'm gonna post the worst post ever this day and it's gonna be even worse than my previous ones!!"?

[SexSymbol]

i can't really consider him an all-time great, because ultimately, at his peak, he couldn't carry his team to the playoffs.

everyone of his rings was won due to big man help.

his style of play is anathema to basketball and it's just funny his stans are now latching on to Curry when in fact, Curry plays the exact opposite of Kobe.

hopefully, when he's gone, simple minded fools will finally realize basketball is a team sport. he stands for everything basketball should not be. because of him, millions of kids grew up with a warped understanding of basketball.

all those shoot-first, no pass kids you see at the playground are prolly all Kobe stans.

05-06, 06-07.
He carries the biggest scrubs in the galaxy to the playoffs. Like literally, outside Kobe that was the worst team in the league by far

[Mr Feeny]

i can't really consider him an all-time great, because ultimately, at his peak, he couldn't carry his team to the playoffs.

everyone of his rings was won due to big man help.

his style of play is anathema to basketball and it's just funny his stans are now latching on to Curry when in fact, Curry plays the exact opposite of Kobe.

hopefully, when he's gone, simple minded fools will finally realize basketball is a team sport. he stands for everything basketball should not be. because of him, millions of kids grew up with a warped understanding of basketball.

all those shoot-first, no pass kids you see at the playground are prolly all Kobe stans.

This is true. He was embarrassingly pathetic in 2005 wasn't he. And the stunk up the place getting eliminated in the 1st round in consecutive years in 2006 and 2007 when Phil came back and ran his triangle.

Nobody will forget Kobe having 1 second half point in the game 7 against the Suns where a scrub kid Barbosa annihilated him.

[ImKobe]

Actually, this is a true story, when KG won MVP my friend (my 'black friend' actually :lol ) was a big KG fan and he was all pumped, and I was like nahh man, Kobe shoulda won it, he has crazy game. I can still remember it quite clearly. But this was when I was in high school and really just watched the players aesthetics and didnt analyze it much. Kobe scored so many points in such a pretty way. But the truth about basketball is just bc a player scores a lot, it doesnt mean his team RELIES on him. We see this with the fact Kobes team wins when he shots less. Their record with him is about the same percentage as without him. Hes not a critically impactful guy. The real difference makers either do a ton of overall shit like Lebron and Tim, or are super efficient scorers like Dirk and Durant and Curry. Kobe is not as impactful as any of those guys. He has too many bad shooting nights. And even his high point total games arent that efficient. His aesthetics fool people about his impact.

so you're saying his teams dont need him to win titles, yet in 2013 the team got destroyed by Spurs in the POs (one of the most lopsided series in all of NBA history by stats) after he went down despite the team having a top 3 record post all-star break with Kobe playing all-time great basketball... how is it that when Kobe had his knee issues in 2011 and had to play a more limited role that year in the POs, his team couldn't win 1 game against Dallas despite being a better team all year round and having HCA in the series.

People hate Kobe because he's the most popular player in the league STILL. He is playing the worst basketball of his career and is retiring and he's still the #1 topic on ISH. Not Steph Curry, who's having an all-time great start to a season nor Russell Westbrook, who's putting up Oscar Robertson-like numbers Let's be honest, half of you are just tired of hearing him so you're trying to make him look worse to piss off his fans but if you looked at his career and his game objectively, he is obviously in the same tier as MJ and Magic. It is what it is. You can't deny those things after the 08-10 run.

[robby712]

The most important thing people neglect is the fact that basketball is a TEAM sport. And ranking players by rings is simply bullshit. People don't realize how much has to come together for a team, not a player, no win the championship. There are injuries, bad calls by the refs, dumb decisions by coaches, and the list goes on and on. Look at the Cavs last year, they probably win it with Kyrie and Love on the floor, but they were injured and now Lebron is 2/6 although he tried his ass off to win it and everyone is making fun of him. Same goes for Karl Malone, Barkley and those guys, if they didn't have to face Jordan and the Bulls, and managed to get a title or two, they would be regarded differently, although they're level of play would be the same...

[DoctorP]

so you're saying his teams dont need him to win titles, yet in 2013 the team got destroyed by Spurs in the POs (one of the most lopsided series in all of NBA history by stats) after he went down despite the team having a top 3 record post all-star break with Kobe playing all-time great basketball... how is it that when Kobe had his knee issues in 2011 and had to play a more limited role that year in the POs, his team couldn't win 1 game against Dallas despite being a better team all year round and having HCA in the series.

People hate Kobe because he's the most popular player in the league STILL. He is playing the worst basketball of his career and is retiring and he's still the #1 topic on ISH. Not Steph Curry, who's having an all-time great start to a season nor Russell Westbrook, who's putting up Oscar Robertson-like numbers Let's be honest, half of you are just tired of hearing him so you're trying to make him look worse to piss off his fans but if you looked at his career and his game objectively, he is obviously in the same tier as MJ and Magic. It is what it is. You can't deny those things after the 08-10 run.

It's all one guy with multiple alts.

[Mr Feeny]

The most important thing people neglect is the fact that basketball is a TEAM sport. And ranking players by rings is simply bullshit. People don't realize how much has to come together for a team, not a player, no win the championship. There are injuries, bad calls by the refs, dumb decisions by coaches, and the list goes on and on. Look at the Cavs last year, they probably win it with Kyrie and Love on the floor, but they were injured and now Lebron is 2/6 although he tried his ass off to win it and everyone is making fun of him. Same goes for Karl Malone, Barkley and those guys, if they didn't have to face Jordan and the Bulls, and managed to get a title or two, they would be regarded differently, although they're level of play would be the same...

Too much sense here. Kobe stans will avoid this post.

[SexSymbol]

Too much sense here. Kobe stans will avoid this post.
real life: "Feeny, you have to go outside, life is too precious to waste 13 straight hours shitposting stuff you don't even believe in yourself"
Mr Feeny: "It's too late for you, real life, it was always too late..."

[Mr Feeny]

real life: "Feeny, you have to go outside, life is too precious to waste 13 straight hours shitposting stuff you don't even believe in yourself"
Mr Feeny: "It's too late for you, real life, it was always too late..."

You just love me don't you:lol
Paggot:lol

[raprap]

:applause:

[SexSymbol]

You just love me don't you:lol
Paggot:lol
Anyone who's ever loved you is wrong.
And i'm not wrong, so no I don't love you, and I don't understand why'd you wish such a thing, ****

[riseagainst]

I speak for the whole human race when I say:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6FyHG5mNpWI/UFBLCacNPgI/AAAAAAAAC1k/dLltLbpl2Ns/s1600/gangnam-style-didn't-read-lol.gif


:roll:
:lol

[sd3035]

http://media1.giphy.com/media/8fxad4tvqIzwk/giphy.gif

:roll: :roll:

[sd3035]

I speak for the whole human race when I say:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6FyHG5mNpWI/UFBLCacNPgI/AAAAAAAAC1k/dLltLbpl2Ns/s1600/gangnam-style-didn't-read-lol.gif


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[ballinhun8]

Literally one of the worst posts I've ever seen written on ISH.



Can't believe OP actually knows how to type.

[Mr Feeny]

OP is a genius.

[ArbitraryWater]

Amayzin'

[bballnoob1192]

i have to rate this 2/6.

[knicksman]

give kobe bosh and he still wins. Bran had better teammates than kobe yet only managed 2. Yet these bran stan calling kobe stans retards. LOL And kobe is hard to build around? You dont know shit my friend. Kobe provides the most difficult and most sought skill-Tough shot creator. Thats why you can build around him. Just like curry, dirk, jordan, etc. Meanwhile bran doesnt have it. He has lots of skills but they can be provided by other players. Kobe has quality while bran has quantity and as they say, "quality over quantity". Kobe skill compared to bran is like computer programmer to janitor+cook. Bran might have more skills but kobes skill is paid more. So kobe is more successful.

Only idiot bran stans think that points=assists=defense. Thats why you guys are statnerds coz If thats true then why the top 10 is dominated by scorers. .

[Cocaine80s]

give kobe bosh and he still wins. Bran had better teammates than kobe yet only managed 2. Yet these bran stan calling kobe stans retards. LOL And kobe is hard to build around? You dont know shit my friend. Kobe provides the most difficult and most sought skill-Tough shot creator. Thats why you can build around him. Just like curry, dirk, jordan, etc. Meanwhile bran doesnt have it. He has lots of skills but they can be provided by other players. Kobe has quality while bran has quantity and as they say, "quality over quantity". Kobe skill compared to bran is like computer programmer to janitor+cook. Bran might have more skills but kobes skill is paid more. So kobe is more successful.
heres that quote you wanted

[knicksman]

i can't really consider him an all-time great, because ultimately, at his peak, he couldn't carry his team to the playoffs.

everyone of his rings was won due to big man help.

his style of play is anathema to basketball and it's just funny his stans are now latching on to Curry when in fact, Curry plays the exact opposite of Kobe.

hopefully, when he's gone, simple minded fools will finally realize basketball is a team sport. he stands for everything basketball should not be. because of him, millions of kids grew up with a warped understanding of basketball.

all those shoot-first, no pass kids you see at the playground are prolly all Kobe stans.

But curry shoots over defenders. Wont hesitate to pull up when given space. Thats what kobe does compare to bran who wont even shoot despite being given 6ft of space.

[TheBigVeto]

Well ****ing said. Post of the year candidate.

Agreed

[warriorfan]

I would put money down that not one person actually read ops post

[LeBird]

I would put money down that not one person actually read ops post

I would put money down that you don't actually have any money.