Derrick Rose has been just as bad as Kobe...

[dubnation]

Dude currently ranks 409th out of 413 eligible players in Real Plus Minus and is averaging only 13.6 points on 15.5 shots per game (shooting 36/21/80).

:facepalm This guy is officially done and never coming back.

[HenryGarfunkle]

Coulda told you that 3 years ago. I did, actually...

[The_Pharcyde]

this is misconstrued also due to the fact that no one on the Bulls gets the defensive attention like rose does and no one gets double teamed nearly as much not even butler


but rose does need to play way better, vision obviously affecting him because why logically would he become worse in an off season where he wasnt injured for once

if this is the case in january/february then something will be fishy, talk to me then

[Town's Town]

Rose has been crap, but still better than Kobe.

[nathanjizzle]

stats:facepalm

[I<3NBA]

let's be real here.

Kobe is still worse.

when you say "as bad," it would mean they are "equally bad"
which is not the case.

[aj1987]

I don't get why Rose is allowed to chuck 16 times a game. Buckets is so much better right now. He should be getting more shots than Rose. Just bench his dumbass.

[LikeABosh]

Still remember when that f.aggot Ric Bucher said he'd take D Rose over Lebron in 2010. LMAO:roll: :roll:
You know it's over for him when people don't even talk about his shit play anymore, it's expected. Will be interesting to see if some desperate, retard team gives him money after his contract is up

[ballinhun8]

Coulda told you that 3 years ago. I did, actually...


Under which account were you then?

[LoneyROY7]

stats:facepalm

nathan, how would break down Derrick's performance so far this year?

[Fudge]

Eat shit, Chicago.

[beastee]

Eat shit, Chicago.
Chicago literally gives no ****s about fudge.

[T_L_P]

this is misconstrued also due to the fact that no one on the Bulls gets the defensive attention like rose does and no one gets double teamed nearly as much not even butler


but rose does need to play way better, vision obviously affecting him because why logically would he become worse in an off season where he wasnt injured for once

if this is the case in january/february then something will be fishy, talk to me then
He was being guarded 1-on-1 by a 38 year old Manu Ginobili in the clutch tonight. That's how much of a non-factor he is.

Just stop.

[SpaceJam]

Bulls fan. As much as I hate to say it, he has been pretty terrible...sad to see

[nathanjizzle]

I don't get why Rose is allowed to chuck 16 times a game. Buckets is so much better right now. He should be getting more shots than Rose. Just bench his dumbass.

but hes not so much better right now, bulls are mediocre with butler handling the ball, because he cant maneuver and create offense for the team besides your practical play sets. it is also the reason he doesnt take many shots in the first place, its just not in his nature. as much as you think you can just give butler the ball and let him shoot the most shots, it doesnt work out, because this season whenever he was the leading scorer for the bulls, they broke even, and when it was another player that led in scoring they had a winning record.
deal with it.

[nathanjizzle]

He was being guarded 1-on-1 by a 38 year old Manu Ginobili in the clutch tonight. That's how much of a non-factor he is.

Just stop.

and pop had green and khwawi guard him at the start of the half. thats how much of a threat he was.

[TheMan]

http://img.memecdn.com/haters-gonna-hate_o_828916.gif

[Kblaze8855]

Andre Drummond is putting up 18/17+ rebounds. Melo shoots I think 40%. Whiteside is blocking 5 shots a game. Harden is shooting 40%. Im not sure Steph Curry has missed a shot this season.

Long story short....10-15 game stats that look really really odd...rarely end up being final season stats.

It pretty much all levels out to something reasonable.

[LikeABosh]

Andre Drummond is putting up 18/17+ rebounds. Melo shoots I think 40%. Whiteside is blocking 5 shots a game. Harden is shooting 40%. Im not sure Steph Curry has missed a shot this season.

Long story short....10-15 game stats that look really really odd...rarely end up being final season stats.

It pretty much all levels out to something reasonable.
Wtf are you talking about?

[ballinhun8]

If he's healthy in the postseason that's all we care about.

[RRR3]

Wtf are you talking about?
It's still really early is what he meant. Rose is unlikely to be THIS bad, he was at least respectable at times last year.

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like the concept of sample sizes shouldn't need explaining......

[aj1987]

but hes not so much better right now, bulls are mediocre with butler handling the ball, because he cant maneuver and create offense for the team besides your practical play sets. it is also the reason he doesnt take many shots in the first place, its just not in his nature. as much as you think you can just give butler the ball and let him shoot the most shots, it doesnt work out, because this season whenever he was the leading scorer for the bulls, they broke even, and when it was another player that led in scoring they had a winning record.
deal with it.
How delusional can you get... :facepalm :facepalm


Andre Drummond is putting up 18/17+ rebounds. Melo shoots I think 40%. Whiteside is blocking 5 shots a game. Harden is shooting 40%. Im not sure Steph Curry has missed a shot this season.

Long story short....10-15 game stats that look really really odd...rarely end up being final season stats.

It pretty much all levels out to something reasonable.
15 games is almost a fifth of the season. The guy played 51 games last seasons as well and he was garbage. Last season and this season combined, the guy is averaging 17 PPG on 48% TS.

I will admit that he had a couple of good games in the PO's though.

[RRR3]

To Kblaze's point, anyone remember when OJ Mayo was on the Mavs and he was getting best SG in the league discussions for a while? It had to be over 15 games too. He was putting up like 22-24 PPG/4/4 on good percentages too. He ended up at like 15/3/3 on 42% or something

[Indian guy]

Those brushing off Rose's god-awful start as "small sample size" are living in some serious denial. Mentioning other players with some outliers in their production so far is nonsensical, because none of them have anything resembling Rose's history of injuries. Anybody who actually watches Bulls games should be able to tell that Rose's a complete shell of his old self. Injuries have completely robbed him of everything that made him good. He's now an average NBA athlete with below average skills for his position to even successfully play an 'old man' game - such as running an offense, setting up others and being able to shoot the ball. And you can forget about consistently attacking the paint or finishing. He's among the worst in the league at that. He was already pretty bad last year - sub-50% TS% and amongst the bottom at his position in every single impact-stat out there. And has regressed physically even more so this season, a damning sign for a player who always relied almost entirely on his athleticism to succeed on the basketball court. There's nothing fluky or temporary about this start. He might improve as the season wears if simply because it's hard to imagine anyone being this bad, but I'll be shocked if Rose even manages to produce at a level this season that would make him a top 20 player at his position.

[Kblaze8855]

In the 43 games before he went down around the ASG he put up 19/5/3 on 42% in 32 minutes a game after missing 2 years. Not sure id call it....garbage...but we live in a very very all or nothing society.

Hes played 12 games. With no camp or preseason. Forgive me for not caring what he averages at the moment.

I dont much care what anyone averages yet. Looking at the teams numbers...

I suspect tony Snell and Noah wont be shooting 32% at the end of the season. But they are right now. I also suspect Kirk Hinrich wont shoot 53%...and that Pau wont shoot 42.

I dont believe John Wall will put up 16 a game on 39%. Paul Pierce probably wont shoot 32% as he is now. Crawford has issues...but I dont think he shoots 35% the whole season. Nor do I expect Jameer Nelson to continue at the 35% hes at...or Randy Foye at 30%. Hes not a scorer but....30%? He can pull that up.

Early season stats are at best....suggestive. But the ones that stand out as absurd...say...someone shooting 32% and 20 from 3? They just dont tend to stick around.

[LikeABosh]

In the 43 games before he went down around the ASG he put up 19/5/3 on 42% in 32 minutes a game after missing 2 years. Not sure id call it....garbage...but we live in a very very all or nothing society.

Hes played 12 games. With no camp or preseason. Forgive me for not caring what he averages at the moment.

I dont much care what anyone averages yet. Looking at the teams numbers...

I suspect tony Snell and Noah wont be shooting 32% at the end of the season. But they are right now. I also suspect Kirk Hinrich wont shoot 53%...and that Pau wont shoot 42.

I dont believe John Wall will put up 16 a game on 39%. Paul Pierce probably wont shoot 32% as he is now. Crawford has issues...but I dont think he shoots 35% the whole season. Nor do I expect Jameer Nelson to continue at the 35% hes at...or Randy Foye at 30%. Hes not a scorer but....30%? He can pull that up.

Early season stats are at best....suggestive. But the ones that stand out as absurd...say...someone shooting 32% and 20 from 3? They just dont tend to stick around.
Rose has been this player since 2012...Hell he shot just 39% in the 2011 playoffs of his MVP season. So let's see. Misses entire 12-13' season. Plays 10 games in 13-14', shooting 35%, then out for season. Looked like he might get it together a bit in 14'-15' but hurt again, shooting 38% post allstar break, 39% in the playoffs. He's done dude.

[RRR3]

Rose has been this player since 2012...
Nah, he was way better than this last year. Not that he was particularly impressive last year, but he wasn't struggling like this. He looked good in the Bucks series in the playoffs from what I saw.

[Kblaze8855]

Dont see how :


There's nothing fluky or temporary about this start.


and:


He might improve as the season wears if simply because it's hard to imagine anyone being this bad


Conflict?


Anyway...you have always had a tendancy to make odd observations on athletic ability. I remember you talking about Lebron being too slow to get to the basket and not being able to jump anymore like...5-6 years ago.

I suppose we will see how it goes.

[references]

I feel like the concept of sample sizes shouldn't need explaining......
:lol

[Kblaze8855]

Nah, he was way better than this last year. Not that he was particularly impressive last year, but he wasn't struggling like this. He looked good in the Bucks series in the playoffs from what I saw.

Indeed he was better last year. Though this year is so brief calling it that is a bit hard.

He was better last year than hes been in 12 games this year. Much better players than Rose was even before the injuries have struggled over 10-12 games. Jordan shot 41% over like 18 games back in 95 and he was 100% healthy just...had been away from the professional game a year and a half. And im sure we all agree....Rose is no Jordan. You dont fall in after 2 years and just...be you...even healthy.

You sure dont do it after 3 operations, no camp, and no preseason.

It was a couple months last year before he even looked to be getting right.

Im not concerned overly about a couple weeks.

Im not concerned about Gasol having the worst numbers of his career either.....after one of his best seasons last year.

I dont tend to go way up and down. Im not gonna make "Hes back!" topics next time he goes off on national tv like he did vs the Thunder. Its just...whatever.

Gonna have ups and downs.

People were making "Hes back!" posts two weeks ago....

Hes not back...hes not gone. Hes a young player trying to get a great early career back on track. He may. He may not.

The every 3 game updates arent showing much either way.

This issue wont be settled for years....literally. Years.

He could be in the NBA in 2025....

Waiting to see is not irrational to me.

[SpaceJam]

He's still got messed up vision yeah? I'mma probably gonna hold out till that's all cleared before I make a full on judgement. But right now, it hasn't looked pretty

[ISHGoat]

Indeed he was better last year. Though this year is so brief calling it that is a bit hard.

He was better last year than hes been in 12 games this year. Much better players than Rose was even before the injuries have struggled over 10-12 games. Jordan shot 41% over like 18 games back in 95 and he was 100% healthy just...had been away from the professional game a year and a half. And im sure we all agree....Rose is no Jordan. You dont fall in after 2 years and just...be you...even healthy.

You sure dont do it after 3 operations, no camp, and no preseason.

It was a couple months last year before he even looked to be getting right.

Im not concerned overly about a couple weeks.

Im not concerned about Gasol having the worst numbers of his career either.....after one of his best seasons last year.

I dont tend to go way up and down. Im not gonna make "Hes back!" topics next time he goes off on national tv like he did vs the Thunder. Its just...whatever.

Gonna have ups and downs.

People were making "Hes back!" posts two weeks ago....

Hes not back...hes not gone. Hes a young player trying to get a great early career back on track. He may. He may not.

The every 3 game updates arent showing much either way.

This issue wont be settled for years....literally. Years.

He could be in the NBA in 2025...

Waiting to see is not irrational to me.

:roll:

Maybe as a janitor or ball boy. He won't be playing in 2025 and he certainly doesn't have the brains for any basketball operations related job.

[Nash]

stats:facepalm
its not like you can blame stats when your stats are THAT terrible.

[Pointguard]

He's not himself, he's not playing good, so big deal. Last year you guys were saying Rose isn't the third best guy on the team mid way thru December. When the playoffs came around it wasn't a question as to who had the most influence on the team. Rose can still play with some of the biggest beast in the league, Westbrook, he just can't maintain a very high level.

[DMAVS41]

It's close...

Definitely in the running for one of the least valuable players in the league when salary is taken in

Kobe, Joe Johnson, Rose... Just horrendous play by all 3 so far this year and a few years before as well

[swagga]

this dude is ALWAYS overrated.
I would rather have delladova. Not even trolling, that's how trash rose is.

[swagga]

He's not himself, he's not playing good, so big deal. Last year you guys were saying Rose isn't the third best guy on the team mid way thru December. When the playoffs came around it wasn't a question as to who had the most influence on the team. Rose can still play with some of the biggest beast in the league, Westbrook, he just can't maintain a very high level.

I hope rose is paying you a lot of money for typing this trash. You better find another sponsor because this dude will be out of the league fast and with his IQ he'll make iverson look like an economist after a couple of years pass... keep on chucking trash posts, a true follower of debrick rose.

[sportjames23]

Under which account were you then?


Got 'em! :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

Under which account were you then?

:roll:

[DMAVS41]

I feel like the concept of sample sizes shouldn't need explaining......

Yea, and that would matter way more if Rose wasn't so terrible since 2012.

I mean...this is a player that has been often hurt and is shooting 39% fg 28% from 3....47% TS from 2013 to present

He'll get better as the year goes on, hopefully, because it's almost impossible to be this bad and get minutes, but this isn't some awful stretch or something for him over the last few years...

I mean, it's horrid, but it's not some crazy notion to think Rose might shoot low 40's TS% given how bad he's been and how injured he's been

Regardless...I do agree that anything can happen and all we can really talk about is what is going on now

And, you might want to re think your take on this matter when just a couple weeks ago you were closing threads asking if guys like Kobe and Rose were in the running for least valuable in the league

It wasn't trolling, it's not trolling...it's just honest

[pastis]

http://img.memecdn.com/haters-gonna-hate_o_828916.gif

:applause: :applause: :lol :lol

[DMAVS41]

ROFL....not just as bad...not after tonight

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

But it's trolling to ask if Kobe is the least valuable player in the league when we factor in salary....

Yep....ban worthy

:wtf:

[nathanjizzle]

ROFL....not just as bad...not after tonight

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

But it's trolling to ask if Kobe is the least valuable player in the league when we factor in salary....

Yep....ban worthy

:wtf:

youre not a troll, youre just ignorant and exagerate everything you believe. tell me again how grueling it was to play in the west? tell me again how no team in the east are better than the spurs? idiot for sure. :facepalm

[HenryGarfunkle]

Under which account were you then?
probably budadiiii or russwest0, can't remember exactly

[DMAVS41]

youre not a troll, youre just ignorant and exagerate everything you believe. tell me again how grueling it was to play in the west? tell me again how no team in the east are better than the spurs? idiot for sure. :facepalm

i really shouldn't respond to you because you are extremely stupid and ignorant, but are you actually denying that the West has been harder to play in for the last 15 years or whatever it's been?

Like...really?

The Cavs are as good or better than the Spurs, but there is no other team in the East that I'd be as remotely afraid of in the playoffs as the Spurs.

[aj1987]

i really shouldn't respond to you because you are extremely stupid and ignorant, but are you actually denying that the West has been harder to play in for the last 15 years or whatever it's been?

Like...really?

The Cavs are as good or better than the Spurs, but there is no other team in the East that I'd be as remotely afraid of in the playoffs as the Spurs.
You shouldn't. I know you're biased, but you actually have basketball knowledge. That kid is literally retarded.

[DMAVS41]

You shouldn't. I know you're biased, but you actually have basketball knowledge. That kid is literally retarded.

You're biased brah...we all have biases and preferences.

[nathanjizzle]

i really shouldn't respond to you because you are extremely stupid and ignorant, but are you actually denying that the West has been harder to play in for the last 15 years or whatever it's been?

Like...really?

The Cavs are as good or better than the Spurs, but there is no other team in the East that I'd be as remotely afraid of in the playoffs as the Spurs.

harder than the east? thats obvious, but thats not saying much. but its not accurate for you to say "its soo grueling to play in the west and extremely difficult to win night in and night out" like you said last year, you were just wrong :roll: . my point is you exaggerate to the point you are incorrect about what you are saying and the point you are making. your interpretation is off actuality.

you being "not afraid" of any teams in the east doesnt make "there are no teams in the east that are better than the spurs" a fact. especially when they lost in the first round against the clippers last season and the bulls just beat them while their 2 best players shot 30 percent. tell me again how you know about basketball? also i would like to know about your basketball history, i bet you are a garbage basketball player. most likely an overweight, oversized slow white guy that thinks he can play like dirk. thats if you even do play.

[nathanjizzle]

You shouldn't. I know you're biased, but you actually have basketball knowledge. That kid is literally retarded.

getting called a retarded kid from a retarded kid on the forums doesnt hurt my feelings at all and is whats wrong with the internet. and i guarantee you are a nobody in real life (not that you arent one on the internet). and dmavs doesnt have much basketball knowledge outside of citing stats. i guess being able to cite stats but being wrong on many occasions makes you "knowledgeable", says the idiot recognizing another idiot.

[DMAVS41]

harder than the east? thats obvious, but thats not saying much. but its not accurate for you to say "its soo grueling to play in the west and extremely difficult to win night in and night out" like you said last year, you were just wrong :roll: . my point is you exaggerate to the point you are incorrect about what you are saying and the point you are making. your interpretation is off actuality.

you being "not afraid" of any teams in the east doesnt make "there are no teams in the east that are better than the spurs" a fact. especially when they lost in the first round against the clippers last season and the bulls just beat them while their 2 best players shot 30 percent. tell me again how you know about basketball? also i would like to know about your basketball history, i bet you are a garbage basketball player. most likely an overweight, oversized slow white guy that thinks he can play like dirk. thats if you even do play.

It was vastly superior and much harder.

I don't care about a regular season game all that much...and its cute you think Rose is a top 2 player on that team. He's horrible so far dude....just horrible.

[nathanjizzle]

It was vastly superior and much harder.

I don't care about a regular season game all that much...and its cute you think Rose is a top 2 player on that team. He's horrible so far dude....just horrible.

didnt i just tell you that you were an exaggerator? then you go and prove me wrong by making another exaggerated statement? stupid. didnt the top 4 teams in the east have a winning record against the top 4 teams in the west last year? how does a vastly superior conference become "vastly inferior" in a matter of one offseason and really with the same teams and players? ignorant.:lol


anyways, rose is still much the top 2 player on the team. his impact is top 2, stat nerds can count him out as one of the worst players in the league, LOL ignorant. do you need proof? lets take a look at last year for example and how you claim he played really bad and a negative impact on the team. rose played 52 games that season, up until the point he got injured late in the season, the bulls were 40-22, thats 64%, when he went out, the bulls went 10-10, thats 50%, just where they should be without rose and have been the last 5 seasons without him. didnt i always tell you the bulls without rose is a .500 team give or take? his impact is still very much and if you understood basketball outside of stats you could see it. you could even use this year, rose is still the winningest player this season than anyone on the team, not by many games because hes only been out 2 games, but its still the same shit and you cant prove otherwise because again, its a proven track record for the last 5 seasons.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Current Jimmy > Peak Rose


He was being guarded 1-on-1 by a 38 year old Manu Ginobili in the clutch tonight. That's how much of a non-factor he is.

Just stop.
Manu still plays solid defense

[aj1987]

getting called a retarded kid from a retarded kid on the forums doesnt hurt my feelings at all and is whats wrong with the internet. and i guarantee you are a nobody in real life (not that you arent one on the internet). and dmavs doesnt have much basketball knowledge outside of citing stats. i guess being able to cite stats but being wrong on many occasions makes you "knowledgeable", says the idiot recognizing another idiot.
Why you melting down, kid? :roll:

Rose sucks ass. Deal with it.

[DMAVS41]

didnt i just tell you that you were an exaggerator? then you go and prove me wrong by making another exaggerated statement? stupid. didnt the top 4 teams in the east have a winning record against the top 4 teams in the west last year? how does a vastly superior conference become "vastly inferior" in a matter of one offseason and really with the same teams and players? ignorant.:lol


anyways, rose is still much the top 2 player on the team. his impact is top 2, stat nerds can count him out as one of the worst players in the league, LOL ignorant. do you need proof? lets take a look at last year for example and how you claim he played really bad and a negative impact on the team. rose played 52 games that season, up until the point he got injured late in the season, the bulls were 40-22, thats 64%, when he went out, the bulls went 10-10, thats 50%, just where they should be without rose and have been the last 5 seasons without him. didnt i always tell you the bulls without rose is a .500 team give or take? his impact is still very much and if you understood basketball outside of stats you could see it. you could even use this year, rose is still the winningest player this season than anyone on the team, not by many games because hes only been out 2 games, but its still the same shit and you cant prove otherwise because again, its a proven track record for the last 5 seasons.

You are too biased to even converse with.... Go meltdown somewhere else

[MiseryCityTexas]

Damned shame that Derrick is still under contract with Adidas.

[Pointguard]

I hope rose is paying you a lot of money for typing this trash. You better find another sponsor because this dude will be out of the league fast and with his IQ he'll make iverson look like an economist after a couple of years pass... keep on chucking trash posts, a true follower of debrick rose.
If its trash post something that you can refute. But you can't because you are somewhere below below the trash reaching up. Am I right? I don't care about what you think about other people's finances. its just you trying to make yourself seem like something when you have no substance in your post. You said nothing about the topic at hand and are trying to get personal with me. Keep reaching tho, maybe one day somebody will recognize you.

[T_L_P]

Current Jimmy > Peak Rose


Manu still plays solid defense

Absolutely. I'm just refuting the point that teams put their best defensive player on Rose and double-team him.

[Pointguard]

You are too biased to even converse with.... Go meltdown somewhere else
398... This is a countdown to 3000, your miraculous number of against Rose threads where your obsess over hating him. These are threads, not post!

[Pointguard]

Current Jimmy > Peak Rose

Not yet, he doesn't know how to win games yet. If he did, he would be very similar to George which is he obviously isn't at that level yet.

[DMAVS41]

398... This is a countdown to 3000, your miraculous number of against Rose threads where your obsess over hating him. These are threads, not post!

I didn't make the thread.

It's not hating... It's honesty

[Pointguard]

Absolutely. I'm just refuting the point that teams put their best defensive player on Rose and double-team him.
Rose in the past usually killed SA and unlike other teams, they rarely doubled him, obviously now teams don't have to but he still gets key baskets. In the end you are talking about a player that's off his game due to injury.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nah, he was way better than this last year. Not that he was particularly impressive last year, but he wasn't struggling like this. He looked good in the Bucks series in the playoffs from what I saw.

Yes, he was, not sure what Kblaze is talking about.. stop defending the garbage can Rose is.


Those brushing off Rose's god-awful start as "small sample size" are living in some serious denial. Mentioning other players with some outliers in their production so far is nonsensical, because none of them have anything resembling Rose's history of injuries. Anybody who actually watches Bulls games should be able to tell that Rose's a complete shell of his old self. Injuries have completely robbed him of everything that made him good. He's now an average NBA athlete with below average skills for his position to even successfully play an 'old man' game - such as running an offense, setting up others and being able to shoot the ball. And you can forget about consistently attacking the paint or finishing. He's among the worst in the league at that. He was already pretty bad last year - sub-50% TS% and amongst the bottom at his position in every single impact-stat out there. And has regressed physically even more so this season, a damning sign for a player who always relied almost entirely on his athleticism to succeed on the basketball court. There's nothing fluky or temporary about this start. He might improve as the season wears if simply because it's hard to imagine anyone being this bad, but I'll be shocked if Rose even manages to produce at a level this season that would make him a top 20 player at his position.

bingo

[Pointguard]

I didn't make the thread.

It's not hating... It's honesty
Its obsessing. The sky is blue. If you say it 4000 times and you think its about honesty, you're only kidding yourself.