*** being "the best player in the league", LeBron might not even be top 3 SF

[TonyMontana]

I'm not even going to talk about him being the "unquestioned best" in the league this year.

But this guy might not even be top 3 at his position this year.

Durant is putting up superior numbers
Kawhi Leonard has become a bonafide superstar.
Paul George is straight up dominating right now.

Not quite a knock on LeBron as the league has never had 4 SFs this good all at the same time...These guys make up 4 of the top 6 guys in the league along with Curry and Westbrick.

I think Paul George will inevitably cool off a bit and come back down to Earth a little bit, but Durant/Leonard are definetly for real. I never fully bought into the Leonard hype even with his FMVP and DPOY, but the more I watch him the more he is one of my absolute favorites in the league.

Though LeBron is still a superstar, he is definitely on the decline. It only goes downhill from this point on.

[GIF REACTION]

Check the on/off stats

Lebron still reigns as the most impactful

[keep-itreal]

Is Jimmy Butler SF or SG?

[!@#$%Vectors!@#]

Is Jimmy Butler SF or SG?
SG

[Rocketswin2013]

Two of the mentioned names are shooting Curry-level percentages from 3...One has done this beforel and burned out on the second-half of the year. The other is coming off of being destroyed on both ends by Paul, Griffin and freaking Matt Barnes in the playoffs(yes, this matters.)

Durant, though? Sure. I don't really care about the claim. His defense has been far, far worse but his offense possibly makes up the gap. This is with me ignoring his missed time.

This is really pointless, though because Curry is so far better than anyone not named Westbrook so far this year it's laughable.

[Segatti]

He averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, and 8.8 assists in the last finals. He still the best until proven otherwise in the playoffs.

[JerrySeinfeld]

He averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, and 8.8 assists in the last finals. He still the best until proven otherwise in the playoffs.

:roll:

[dunksby]

With Durant finding a nice balance between offense (127 ORtg) and defense (102 ORtg) he is the undisputed best SF in the game, I still would take LeBron over PG and Leonard, but it's close between LBJ and PG.

[jimmy77x]

He averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, and 8.8 assists in the last finals. He still the best until proven otherwise in the playoffs.

How many shots did he jack up / brick a game through? What about shooting percentage? Conviently left those out. Curry is better than lebrick, deal with it.:lol

[LongLiveTheKing]

LeBron has been at the top for almost a decade he isn't coming down, keep trying people. :oldlol:

[GIF REACTION]

With Durant finding a nice balance between offense (127 ORtg) and defense (102 ORtg) he is the undisputed best SF in the game, I still would take LeBron over PG and Leonard, but it's close between LBJ and PG.
To early to make this claim

Lebron came off GOAT tier playoff run

[3ball]

the league has never had 4 SFs this good all at the same time...


:rolleyes:

1986:

Dominique 30.3 ppg
Dantley 29.8 ppg
English 29.8 ppg
Bird 25.8 ppg

[retaxis]

How many shots did he jack up / brick a game through? What about shooting percentage? Conviently left those out. Curry is better than lebrick, deal with it.:lol
Curry might have something to say when he gets 2 FMVPs. In the mean time Lebron has shown he is consistent and has been playing very well despite having no viable starter on his team throughout last years playoffs. Imagine if Curry had no Draymond Green and no Klay Thompson in last years playoffs i doubt he even wins a game against the pelicans let alone go 6 games into the finals

[3ball]

How many shots did he jack up / brick a game through? What about shooting percentage? Conviently left those out. Curry is better than lebrick, deal with it.:lol


Lebron shot horrifically.. But most notably, his time of possession (the amount of time he possesses the ball each game) was a whopping 12.0 minutes per game in the Finals - that's 50% higher than the regular season leader, John Wall's 8.2 minutes.

It's impossible for ANY team to win with one player hogging the ball like that.. This proves Lebron's style is meant to accumulate stats more than win, which makes his stats utterly unimpressive.

Otoh, other players like Bird, Curry and MJ achieved their stats with low time-of-possession, while fostering great teamwork... Stats achieved this way is much more impressive than Lebron's playground, ball-hogging style.

[La Frescobaldi]

Two of the mentioned names are shooting Curry-level percentages from 3...One has done this beforel and burned out on the second-half of the year. The other is coming off of being destroyed on both ends by Paul, Griffin and freaking Matt Barnes in the playoffs(yes, this matters.)

Durant, though? Sure. I don't really care about the claim. His defense has been far, far worse but his offense possibly makes up the gap. This is with me ignoring his missed time.

This is really pointless, though because Curry is so far better than anyone not named Westbrook so far this year it's laughable.

agree with all that except matt barnes is underrated tho he does show up strong when it counts a whole lot of times

[dunksby]

To early to make this claim

Lebron came off GOAT tier playoff run
Maybe I went overboard a little saying PG is close to LeBron, but he isn't the best SF IMHO.

[rzp]

At his point of his career, he doesn't give a fvck about regular season. Actually looks like wants Love (and Kyrie soon) to take more shots and feel more confindent, so obviously LJ stats will go down

so ur argument is irrelevant...

[LoneyROY7]

Jorge is climbing that ladder.

[Dragonyeuw]

Neither top 3 positionally or top 3 overall, in terms of level of play so far. I do think he's at the point where conserving energy for the playoffs is of greater concern than going all out in the regular season.

[AirFederer]

lol

[knicksman]

LOL at bran stans believing that bran doesnt care about RS. The same guy whos urging his teammates to give it all coz hes so envious getting the attention. The same guy who wants to collect MVPs coz he knows rings are hard to get. Why dont you guys accept that bran is on a decline. And hes ft% is proof of it.

[JohnMax]

I agree with 3ball and knicksman

[r15mohd]

I agree with 3ball and knicksman


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Healthywealthy.jpg

[NBASTATMAN]

Lebron shot horrifically.. But most notably, his time of possession (the amount of time he possesses the ball each game) was a whopping 12.0 minutes per game in the Finals - that's 50% higher than the regular season leader, John Wall's 8.2 minutes.

It's impossible for ANY team to win with one player hogging the ball like that.. This proves Lebron's style is meant to accumulate stats more than win, which makes his stats utterly unimpressive.

Otoh, other players like Bird, Curry and MJ achieved their stats with low time-of-possession, while fostering great teamwork... Stats achieved this way is much more impressive than Lebron's playground, ball-hogging style.


IF Lebron gave up the ball it would be a turnover by delly, jr, or shumpert.. The fact that he was able to carry those guys to a competitive finals vs the Warriors just shows how great his floor game is... Is he the scorer that Durant is ? HELL NO... Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either... But he is better than all those guys by a good margin because he can lead and he just knows how to play the game..

Kobe once said that some guys see the game but Lebron feels the game... This makes him so much better than any of the other guys... imo

[aj1987]

How many shots did he jack up / brick a game through? What about shooting percentage? Conviently left those out. Curry is better than lebrick, deal with it.:lol
40%. 36/13/9 on 40%. To put that in perspective, Kobe averages 41% for his CAREER in the Finals and MJ averaged 42% in the '96 Finals and 43% in the '98 Finals.



IF Lebron gave up the ball it would be a turnover by delly, jr, or shumpert.. The fact that he was able to carry those guys to a competitive finals vs the Warriors just shows how great his floor game is... Is he the scorer that Durant is ? HELL NO... Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either... But he is better than all those guys by a good margin because he can lead and he just knows how to play the game..

Kobe once said that some guys see the game but Lebron feels the game... This makes him so much better than any of the other guys... imo
:biggums: :biggums:

Neither of those guys have averaged OVER 22 PPG for an entire season in their careers. LeBron averaged UNDER 22 PPG once in his career. His rookie season.

[nba_55]

IF Lebron gave up the ball it would be a turnover by delly, jr, or shumpert.. The fact that he was able to carry those guys to a competitive finals vs the Warriors just shows how great his floor game is... Is he the scorer that Durant is ? HELL NO... Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either... But he is better than all those guys by a good margin because he can lead and he just knows how to play the game..

Kobe once said that some guys see the game but Lebron feels the game... This makes him so much better than any of the other guys... imo

Bro...:facepalm

[r15mohd]

IF Lebron gave up the ball it would be a turnover by delly, jr, or shumpert.. The fact that he was able to carry those guys to a competitive finals vs the Warriors just shows how great his floor game is... Is he the scorer that Durant is ? HELL NO... Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either... But he is better than all those guys by a good margin because he can lead and he just knows how to play the game..

Kobe once said that some guys see the game but Lebron feels the game... This makes him so much better than any of the other guys... imo

trying to get 3Ball to understand logic is like beating a dead horse

he pushes his agenda on shooting percentages and usage rating, etc. then turning a blind eye to the rest of the Cavs shooting horribly and being unable to basically dribble the ball during the finals without turning it over. it's not rocket science to understand that Lebron had to have the ball in his hands for majority of every offensive possession to even make a mark on the Warriors, and was really the only one who could attack/score, and even if anyone else who would score needed some assistance or setup of the play from Lebron to make it happen.

it worked for 2.5 games, but Warriors were just deep enough to counter and the Cavs had no answer from the end of game 4 on with the adjustments made against them.

3Ball is just a hater of everything non-MJ, or threatening to MJ....sad life he lives. doesn't appreciate anything, even when Curry is beasting now, all he can do is spew bs rhetoric on how MJ did it better and Curry can't stack up. :facepalm it's basically hard for him to appreciate any NBA game, he watches with a notebook and DVR looking for ways make his next thread/post

[TiagoSimoes]

Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either...

I dont really like lebron, but what the hell?

[nba_55]

And OP is a hockey fan, he sucks at predicting anything NBA related.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357577

[Dragonyeuw]

IF Lebron gave up the ball it would be a turnover by delly, jr, or shumpert.. The fact that he was able to carry those guys to a competitive finals vs the Warriors just shows how great his floor game is... Is he the scorer that Durant is ? HELL NO... Is he as good a scorer as leonard or george? Not sure about this either... But he is better than all those guys by a good margin because he can lead and he just knows how to play the game..

Kobe once said that some guys see the game but Lebron feels the game... This makes him so much better than any of the other guys... imo

:biggums: Ok both of those two have taken great strides, Leonard in particular, George was showing glimpses of this 2 years ago but taken it to the next level. But let's not get carried away.

[Megabox!]

We're getting to the point where ppl are severely underrating Lebron, isn't he averaging 25/7/6 on 50% shooting? And he's actually playing good defense this year too, not top 3 SF? that's crazy to assume that

[AnaheimLakers24]

Rolling out the excuses already for when that baby dick loses to AMC :lol

[VengefulAngel]

We're getting to the point where ppl are severely underrating Lebron, isn't he averaging 25/7/6 on 50% shooting? And he's actually playing good defense this year too, not top 3 SF? that's crazy to assume that

He's the second to third best player in the world, people need to calm down and stop underrating him, he's led the Cav's to the second best record in the whole of the NBA. Being great is no longer good enough.

[Lebronxrings]

kawhi is a system player who is great cause of pop

george always shows great stretches but comes back down to earth hard.

Durant? Hes been pretty good, but has always been a tier below lebron.

Rankings:
Lebron
Durant
George
Kawhi
Hayward

[ArbitraryWater]

With Durant finding a nice balance between offense (127 ORtg) and defense (102 ORtg) he is the undisputed best SF in the game, I still would take LeBron over PG and Leonard, but it's close between LBJ and PG.

When the ACTUAL consensus between people is that Bron's the best or second best, you come off slightly retarded saying this stuff :lol

[kennethgriffin]

He averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, and 8.8 assists in the last finals. He still the best until proven otherwise in the playoffs.


He shot 27% though



Kobe lead the league in scoring for a month last season at 39% and people said it was worthless


Why dont lebron fans fallow their own mantra

[GIF REACTION]

He shot 27% though



Kobe lead the league in scoring for a month last season at 39% and people said it was worthless


Why dont lebron fans fallow their own mantra
Lebron shot 41% Bro

and his team shot like 15% without him

He made his team a finals record 50+ offensive rating better when on the court

This is the largest differential in NBA finals history. No other player has had such a large impact on his team

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron is not even the best pf. But even if he was, no1 respects a guy that colludes and backstabs like him. His few accomplishments hold little to no value in the eyes of all time greats. Like his fans, he is completely classless and lacks a spine.

[CTbasketball92]

He shot 27% though



Kobe lead the league in scoring for a month last season at 39% and people said it was worthless


Why dont lebron fans fallow their own mantra

Had kobe done that while averaging a triple double in the NBA finals while playing the best team in the world, it would have been awesome.

[FKAri]

Nah. He's just coasting.
#GOATgonnaGOAT

[game3524]

He is the 2nd best SF, but he has no case for best player in the league title anymore.

[kamil]

Perhaps it's time for LeBron* to jump ship and take his talents elsewhere?

Oh wait, the colluding scumbag already did that.

[3ball]

He made his team a finals record 50+ offensive rating better when on the court

This is the largest differential in NBA finals history. No other player has had such a large impact on his team


Bullshit - we don't have data from before 2001

However, we do have on-off stats going back to the 90's and 1996 MJ recorded the highest on/off IN HISTORY of recording the stat.

[3ball]

all he can do is spew bs rhetoric on how MJ did it better and Curry can't stack up.



It isn't BS - Jordan's stats were better across the board:


Jordan Jan 1988 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1988/#210-224-sum:pgl_basic): 34.3 ppg.. 5.7 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 3.9 spg.. 2.2 bpg.. 58.9 fg.. 64.8 ts.. 132 ortg
Curry. Nov 2016: 31.9 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.6 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 51.5 fg.. 69.1 ts.. 126 ortg


Curry's usage is now 33%, which is equal with MJ's career usage - so we can accurately compare their ORtg (points-per-possession), which is the only true efficiency measure..

As you can see, MJ is easily more efficient, while being ahead in virtually every other category, in addition to being DPOY - Curry is a small fraction of the player MJ was..

Oh, and since MJ was capable of 37 ppg on all two's, he would be the greatest in ANY era, not just in eras that had a 3-point line.
.

[3ball]

Bullshit - we don't have data from before 2001

However, we do have on-off stats going back to the 90's and 1996 MJ recorded the highest on/off IN HISTORY of recording the stat.
gif reaction has nothing for this

[3ball]

Lebron had to have the ball in his hands for majority of every offensive possession to even make a mark on the Warriors


^^^^^ Ignorant bullshit - the Spurs have guys like Danny Green and Patty Mills, who are less talented than JR Smith and Shumpert.

However, Green and Mills are productive within the Spurs equal-opportunity offense, while JR Smith and Shumpert are marginalized due to Lebron's 12 minute time of possession in the Finals (a whopping 50% higher than the regular season leader, John Wall's 8.2 minutes)..

It's like night and day - the Spurs, Warriors and other great teams ran equal opportunity offenses, while Lebron has 12 minute time of possession, so there is no opportunity for teammates.. It's like night and day.

These are the facts - if you want to chalk up 2/6 to sheer coincidence and no fault of Lebron - go ahead... But that's obviously wrong..

[Bankaii]

^^^^^ Ignorant bullshit - the Spurs have guys like Danny Green and Patty Mills, who are less talented than JR Smith and Shumpert.

However, Green and Mills are productive within the Spurs equal-opportunity offense, while JR Smith and Shumpert are marginalized due to Lebron's 12 minute time of possession in the Finals (a whopping 50% higher than the regular season leader, John Wall's 8.2 minutes)..

It's like night and day - the Spurs, Warriors and other great teams ran equal opportunity offenses, while Lebron has 12 minute time of possession, so there is no opportunity for teammates.. It's like night and day.

These are the facts - if you want to chalk up 2/6 to sheer coincidence and no fault of Lebron - go ahead... But that's obviously wrong..
Bolded describes 90% of your posts perfectly.

The fact that your blatant trolling and ignoring of context hasn't gotten you banned shows just how bad this forum is.

The Spurs and Warriors are great offenses because they have great systems implemented dumbass. Both Pop and now Kerr have equal opportunity offenses that move the ball to hide certain players weaknesses. This is why even when Parker or Curry comes out, the offense run just as perfectly.

Lebron doesn't have the luxury of an all-time great system because his coaches general are new or suck. When Lebron comes out the offense becomes a stagnant chuck fest. Now stfu 3Ball.

Btw Lebron>MJ