Top 25 (all time) opponents beat in playoffs

[90sgoat]

Off the top of my head:

MJ: Magic, Malone, Barkley, Isaiah, Shaq

Bird: Magic, Barkley, Kareem, Moses, Dr. J, MJ, Hakeem, Isaiah

Magic: Bird, Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, Isaiah

Kobe: Prime Duncan, Prime Garnett

Duncan: Shaq, Kobe, Lebron

Hakeem: Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Shaq

Dirk: Wade, Bron, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett

Wade: Dirk, Garnett, Old Duncan

Shaq: Duncan, MJ, Dirk

Lebron: Old Man Duncan, Old Man Garnett

Does Lebron not have the least impressive resume?

[Derka]

Kobe beat KG, Pierce, Durant and Nash in 2010 alone.

Beat Melo and Dwight in 2009.

[90sgoat]

Kobe beat KG, Pierce, Durant and Nash in 2010 alone.

Beat Melo and Dwight in 2009.

Those are not top 25 all time.

I am talking all time top 25.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe beat KG, Pierce, Durant and Nash in 2010 alone.

Beat Melo and Dwight in 2009.

Does baby Durant even count? Did he even have a decent series? This shit is such dumbed down thinking

[Derka]

Those are not top 25 all time.

I am talking all time top 25.

Oh. Misunderstood you there, my bad. If Duncan is Top 25 all-time, KG sure as hell should be on there.

[90sgoat]

Oh. Misunderstood you there, my bad. If Duncan is Top 25 all-time, KG sure as hell should be on there.

You crazy?

Duncan is easily top 10, 5-7 all time, while Garnett maybe makes top 25 barely.

Lets see quickly:

MJ
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
West
Oscar
Dr. J
Malone
Barkley
Moses
Isaiah
Dirk
Stockton
Garnett
Lebron

Yeah ok, Garnett probably makes it.

[Rocketswin2013]

Stupid.

[Wade's Rings]

Hakeem: Barkley, Malone, Stockton(idk where you rank him), Shaq

Dirk: Wade, Bron, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett

Wade: Dirk, Garnett, Duncan

Others depend on you're rankings. Though this list is subjective considering some players weren't in their Prime.

[T_L_P]

Those are not top 25 all time.

I am talking all time top 25.

Garnett is one of the 25 best players of all time.

[3ball]

Bird: Magic, Kareem, Moses, Dr. J, MJ, Hakeem, Isaiah

Magic: Bird, Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, Isaiah

MJ: Magic, Malone, Barkley, Isaiah, Shaq


In 1996 ECF, Jordan averaged 30/6/5 on 52% against Shaq's Magic team, who were defending Eastern Conference Champions.

It's weird - everyone forgets MJ swept Shaq in 1996 while averaging 30/6/5 on 52%.

[WayOfWade]

How about Shaq? Jordan, Duncan, and who else did he get?

[90sgoat]

Does Ewing make top 25?

[Wade's Rings]

How about Shaq? Jordan, Duncan, and who else did he get?

Dirk

[Town's Town]

This list should be top 25 all-time and playing like top 25 all-time at the time of their defeats. Therefore, Shaq and Kobe beating KG in 2004 would count, but LeBron beating him late in KG's career should not.

[feyki]

You crazy?

Duncan is easily top 10, 5-7 all time, while Garnett maybe makes top 25 barely.

Lets see quickly:

MJ
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Russel
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
West
Oscar
Dr. J
Malone
Barkley
Moses
Isaiah
Dirk
Stockton
Garnett
Lebron

Yeah ok, Garnett probably makes it.

Isiah close to top 25 but Stockton top 35 at best .

[colts19]

Off the top of my head:

MJ: Magic, Malone, Barkley, Isaiah, Shaq

Bird: Magic, Kareem, Moses, Dr. J, MJ, Hakeem, Isaiah

Magic: Bird, Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, Isaiah

Kobe: Prime Duncan, Prime Garnett

Duncan: Shaq, Kobe, Lebron

Hakeem: Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Shaq

Dirk: Wade, Bron, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett

Wade: Dirk, Garnett, Old Duncan

Shaq: Duncan, MJ, Dirk

Lebron: Old Man Duncan, Old Man Garnett

Does Lebron not have the least impressive resume?

You forgot Barkley on Bird's list. So that gives Bird 8 all time greats that he beat. Does that give him the most impressive resume?

[3ball]

You forgot Barkley on Bird's list. So that gives Bird 8 all time greats that he beat. Does that give him the most impressive resume?
I believe it does.

[Town's Town]

Isiah close to top 25 but Stockton top 35 at best .
Stockton is vastly underrated. Dude holds career records that will likely never be beat in our lifetime for 2 of the big 5 NBA stats.

[3ball]

Stockton is vastly underrated. Dude holds career records that will likely never be beat in our lifetime for 2 of the big 5 NBA stats.



Seriously - look at Stockton's stats at 39 years old in 2002:

13.4 ppg... 8.2 apg... 1.9 spg... 51.7 fg... 60.1 ts... 82 games played.. 31 mpg


Look at his stats AT FORTY YEARS OLD in 2003:

10.8 ppg... 7.7 apg... 1.7 spg... 48.3 fg... 57.7 ts... 82 games played.. 28 mpg

[90sgoat]

Seriously - look at Stockton's stats at 39 years old in 2002:

13.4 ppg... 8.2 apg... 1.9 spg... 51.7 fg... 60.1 ts... 82 games played.. 31 mpg


Look at his stats AT FORTY YEARS OLD in 2003:

10.8 ppg... 7.7 apg... 1.7 spg... 48.3 fg... 57.7 ts... 82 games played.. 28 mpg

And that's without new no-handcheck rules - at 40 years old.

[90sgoat]

Who did Kareem, Russel, Wilt beat?

[GrapeApe]

Stockton is vastly underrated. Dude holds career records that will likely never be beat in our lifetime for 2 of the big 5 NBA stats.

In addition to the records you mentioned, he had a remarkable 9 year stretch of leading the league in assists and he was a career 52% shooter at 6'1. He had 16 straight seasons with a 21+ PER, including his final season at 40 years old. His consistency and longevity are as good as anyone to have ever played.

That being said, he's tricky to rank because he wasn't the type of guy who could carry a team. If you look at the group of players considered to be top 25 all-time, they were all dominant players who were capable of carrying a team, even if defensively like Russell. Stockton for all his greatness was never that kind of player.

[SouBeachTalents]

David Robinson's not being mentioned?

[pauk]

Horry: Shaq, D-Rob, Barkley, Webber, Kidd, Pippen, Reggie, Allen, Duncan, Iverson, Parker, Garnett, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Drexler, Payton, Gasol, Carmelo, CP3, Nash & Lebron.

Not all Top 25 but still, GOAT :bowdown:

[feyki]

Stockton is vastly underrated. Dude holds career records that will likely never be beat in our lifetime for 2 of the big 5 NBA stats.


First of all , i rate players for their impacts . And big part of this " players primes" . Stockton probably has greatest longevity in nba history but his prime (88-94) isn't better than Frazier,Isiah and Cousy primes . Cousy,Frazier and Cousy also have better peak than Stockton. So , why am i think Stockton is greater than those guys ? For their rest of careers , no .

[tmacattack33]

This is dumb...Lebron's opponents are still currently playing and so if you give them 5-10 more years to build resumes, they will look pretty good: Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Rose, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, etc

[GrapeApe]

This is dumb...Lebron's opponents are still currently playing and so if you give them 5-10 more years to build resumes, they will look pretty good: Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Rose, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, etc

That's true, and the same for Wade as well. Also, this could be the first year that Lebron and Wade meet in the playoffs, so the winner will add another all-time great to the list of players they've defeated.

[SouBeachTalents]

That's true, and the same for Wade as well. Also, this could be the first year that Lebron and Wade meet in the playoffs, so the winner will add another all-time great to the list of players they've defeated.

If Wade beats LeBron (and plays well) then yes, but LeBron beating a WELL past his prime Wade, eh, not that special imo

[GrapeApe]

If Wade beats LeBron (and plays well) then yes, but LeBron beating a WELL past his prime Wade, eh, not that special imo

Yeah, I suppose that's true. It's obviously not the same as if they had met from 2005-2010. It would still be fun to see that matchup this year, and if it does happen I wouldn't be surprised if Wade has a vintage series.

Of course if the Cavs win, Lebron will have beaten our generation's Bill Russell :D

[Angel Face]

Isiah close to top 25 but Stockton top 35 at best .

Stockton leads the all time career steals, top 2 in career assist. Top 35? You do realize that if the Jazz didn't play the GOAT in 2 consecutive years in the Finals, Stockton will be a 2 time NBA champion.

[TheBigVeto]

Off the top of my head:

MJ: Magic, Malone, Barkley, Isaiah, Shaq

Bird: Magic, Barkley, Kareem, Moses, Dr. J, MJ, Hakeem, Isaiah

Magic: Bird, Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses, Isaiah

Kobe: Prime Duncan, Prime Garnett

Duncan: Shaq, Kobe, Lebron

Hakeem: Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Shaq

Dirk: Wade, Bron, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett

Wade: Dirk, Garnett, Old Duncan

Shaq: Duncan, MJ, Dirk

Lebron: Old Man Duncan, Old Man Garnett

Does Lebron not have the least impressive resume?

Kobe is not top 25. Neither is Wade.

[feyki]

Stockton leads the all time career steals, top 2 in career assist. Top 35? You do realize that if the Jazz didn't play the GOAT in 2 consecutive years in the Finals, Stockton will be a 2 time NBA champion.

2001 Kobe better than 98 MJ for me. Jordan calls "goat" cause his 88-93 era .

And i talked about that , i rate players for their impacts , not team accomplishments or records .

[Mr Feeny]

2001 Kobe better than 98 MJ for me. Jordan calls "goat" cause his 88-93 era .

And i talked about that , i rate players for their impacts , not team accomplishments or records .

Yeah ok. Good luck arguing that. I'm sure many people will take you seriously.

Impact:

WS : 15.8 vs 11.3 = adv Jordan
WS/48: 0.238 vs 0.196 = adv Jordan
BPM : 4.6 vs 4.2. = adv Jordan
VORP: 5.3 vs 4.4. = adv Jordan
PER 25.2 vs 24.5. = adv Jordan
PPG 28.7 on 46.5% vs 28.5 on 46.4% = significant advantage MJ especially considering that he - as a 35 year old and carrying a roster RAVAGED by injuries was the primary focus of the defense while Kobe has Shaq commanding double teams and leaving him open and on single coverage.

This is ISH and we hear a lot of dumb garbage but this is one of the most laughable things any poster has made on here in a while. 2001 Kobe is better than 98 Jordan who carried the Bulls to 62 wins with Pippen missing half the year, with Longley and kerry missing time and culminating in sweeping the MVP awards and winning the title as lead dog for a record 6th time post-merger .

[Smoke117]

You crazy?

Duncan is easily top 10, 5-7 all time, while Garnett maybe makes top 25 barely.



:biggums: ...you're a ****ing idiot.

[Mr Feeny]

:biggums: ...you're a ****ing idiot.

Why bother responding? You already know he has no clue about basketball. Why bother with these kids?

[90sgoat]

Garnett is behind Duncan, Malone, Barkley and Dirk for his position alone, you are the kids, only kids think Garnett can hang with Malone and Barkley.

[feyki]

Yeah ok. Good luck arguing that. I'm sure many people will take you seriously.

Impact:

WS : 15.8 vs 11.3 = adv Jordan
WS/48: 0.238 vs 0.196 = adv Jordan
BPM : 4.6 vs 4.2. = adv Jordan
VORP: 5.3 vs 4.4. = adv Jordan
PER 25.2 vs 24.5. = adv Jordan
PPG 28.7 on 46.5% vs 28.5 on 46.4% = significant advantage MJ especially considering that he - as a 35 year old and carrying a roster RAVAGED by injuries was the primary focus of the defense while Kobe has Shaq commanding double teams and leaving him open and on single coverage.

This is ISH and we hear a lot of dumb garbage but this is one of the most laughable things any poster has made on here in a while. 2001 Kobe is better than 98 Jordan who carried the Bulls to 62 wins with Pippen missing half the year, with Longley and kerry missing time and culminating in sweeping the MVP awards and winning the title as lead dog for a record 6th time post-merger .


33-7-7 , 121 ortg , 93 drtg against 98 drtg team (1 of 29 ) .

[sportjames23]

2001 Kobe better than 98 MJ for me. Jordan calls "goat" cause his 88-93 era .

And i talked about that , i rate players for their impacts , not team accomplishments or records .


First time I've ever heard someone make this claim. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

33-7-7 , 121 ortg , 93 drtg against 98 drtg team (1 of 29 ) .

That's a great series. I'll say that again. Series. One series. On single coverage before promptly stinking up the place in the finals while defended by Eric Snow.

And given the lack of insight in your ridiculous original post, I'm not surprised that you've contradicted yourself by stating that you look at individual impact and not team impact and then bring up offensive and defensive impact, of all things.Those are driven as much as anything by how the team is doing.

I've provided every prominent individual metric and it isn't even a case. I don't know what you're on. Perhaps you're embarrassed that Duncan was woeful and are hyping up any player on the opposition to detract from any rightful criticism for his atrocious displays that postseason. You would know.

But arguing that 2001 Kobe is better than 98 MJ isn't gonna do you many favors.

[Mr Feeny]

First time I've ever heard someone make this claim. :oldlol:

I already told him that it's one of the absolute DUMBEST things I've ever heard. And i post here, in a hotbed of insanity - ISH. I've never ever heard anyone say that before and I doubt that I ever will besides this guy. Nobody would want to humiliate himself by saying something that stupid out loud and arguing it.

[feyki]

That's a great series. I'll say that again. Series. One series. On single coverage before promptly stinking up the place in the finals while defended by Eric Snow.

And given the lack of insight in your ridiculous original post, I'm not surprised that you've contradicted yourself by stating that you look at individual impact and not team impacts and then bring up offensive and defensive impacts (Of all things). Those are driven as much as anything by how the team is doing.

I've provided every prominent individual metric and it isn't even a case. I don't know what you're on. Perhaps you're embarrassed that Duncan was woeful and are hyping up any player on the opposition to detract from any rightful criticism for his atrocious displays that postseason. You would know.

But arguing that 2001 Kobe is better than 98 MJ isn't gonna do you many favors.

Your arguements only about regular season , you should look playoffs than season . Actually Kobe has two great series at 2001 . Kobe also played tougher competiton than 98 Jordan at 2001 .

Kobe's Spurs and Kings series above Jordan's Jazz and Pacers series for me .

[Mr Feeny]

Your arguements only about regular season , you should look playoffs than season . Actually Kobe has two great series at 2001 . Kobe also played tougher competiton than 98 Jordan at 2001 .

Kobe's Spurs and Kings series above Jordan's Jazz and Pacers series for me .
So take everything into account. Make a coherent argument. You want to talk about series? That's great. I dont mean to sound rude or like an asshole but bear with me and lets discuss this.
If we want to talk about series, then there's nothing more important than the NBA finals. A 40%fg shooter during the finals who struggled massively on single coverage by Eric Snow is not gonna make a case for an all time great post season run.
Not only is the rest of that subjextive but Individual defensive matchups matter more than the overall level. A guard playing against Lebron's heat teams would have struggled as he'd have had to face combinations of Lebron, Wade and Battier while any decent big man could demolish the Heat's front court. Case in point, they made Hibbert look like Kareem.

Arguing that Hibbert is an all time great for being fortunate enough not to match up with the Heat's strength defensively is as asinine as it comes. Look into the individual matchups and apply some perspective. Being guarded by Bryon Russell is a much more daunting task then facing Eric Snow and I don't know anybody who would dispute that. If you'd like to carry on making one ridiculous point after the other, please do so. I'm gonna take them apart one by one.

Just when I think the level of posting in this board can't get any worse, I'm hearing that 2001 Frobe is better than the Jordan who swept the MVP's and lead a debilitated team to a 3rd straight title as lead dog. And won the scoring title to boot. Smh.

[feyki]

So take everything into account. Make a coherent argument. You want to talk about series? That's great. I dont mean to sound rude or like an asshole but bear with me and lets discuss this.
If we want to talk about series, then there's nothing more important than the NBA finals. A 40%fg shooter during the finals who struggled massively on single coverage by Eric Snow is not gonna make a case for an all time great post season run.
Not only is the rest of that subjextive but Individual defensive matchups matter more than the overall level. A guard playing against Lebron's heat teams would have struggled as he'd have had to face combinations of Lebron, Wade and Battier while any decent big man could demolish the Heat's front court. Case in point, they made Hibbert look like Kareem.

Arguing that Hibbert is an all time great for being fortunate enough not to match up with the Heat's strength defensively is as asinine as it comes. Look into the individual matchups and apply some perspective. Being guarded by Bryon Russell is a much more daunting task then facing Eric Snow and I don't know anybody who would dispute that. If you'd like to carry on making one ridiculous point after the other, please do so. I'm gonna take them apart one by one.

Just when I think the level of posting in this board can't get any worse, I'm hearing that 2001 Frobe is better than the Jordan who swept the MVP's and lead a debilitated team to a 3rd straight title as lead dog. And won the scoring title to boot. Smh.

Please , be objective .

Peak to peak ; Kobe's performances against Spurs above Jordan's performances against Jazz , Kobe's performances against Kings above Jordan's performances against Pacers.

We must look at competition , not prestige area(An example ; Lakers vs Kings at 2000 and Lakers vs Nets at 2002 ) .

[SpanishACB]

2001 Kobe better than 98 MJ for me. Jordan calls "goat" cause his 88-93 era .

And i talked about that , i rate players for their impacts , not team accomplishments or records .

not rating stockton emphaizes all that's wrong with stat whore nba corporates like you

that's not basketball you're talking about

[feyki]

not rating stockton emphaizes all that's wrong with stat whore nba corporates like you

that's not basketball you're talking about

Better than subjective bitches .

[Mr Feeny]

Please , be objective .

Peak to peak ; Kobe's performances against Spurs above Jordan's performances against Jazz , Kobe's performances against Kings above Jordan's performances against Pacers.

We must look at competition , not prestige area(An example ; Lakers vs Kings at 2000 and Lakers vs Nets at 2002 ) .

Peak? What into the blue hell are you talking about?
Did you read anything I wrote? Read it and then write a proper reply so that I can take you seriously.

[Wade's Rings]

Please , be objective .

Peak to peak ; Kobe's performances against Spurs above Jordan's performances against Jazz , Kobe's performances against Kings above Jordan's performances against Pacers.

We must look at competition , not prestige area(An example ; Lakers vs Kings at 2000 and Lakers vs Nets at 2002 ) .

How the f*ck is that Peak to peak if Jordan was 34 & 35 and not at his peak in the series you mentioned?

Why don't you post Jordan's 1991-1993 Finals numbers?

[feyki]

How the f*ck is that Peak to peak if Jordan was 34 & 35 and not at his peak in the series you mentioned?

Why don't you post Jordan's 1991-1993 Finals numbers?

Relax dude , we were talking about 98 versus 2001. I know , 88-93 Jordan clearly better than 2001 Kobe.

[brain drain]

Dirk actually beat Malone and Stockton back in 2001, in his first playoff series.

[ArbitraryWater]

Peak? What into the blue hell are you talking about?
Did you read anything I wrote? Read it and then write a proper reply so that I can take you seriously.

I think the English Language is a bit of a troubling cause for him... I remember making a detailed post on why Shaq was better than Duncan, after he quoted some random poster with faulty H2H numbers as evidence that Duncan is > Shaq and compared it to Russell's superiority over Wilt :roll:

He came back with the same "please be objective" like here:


Please , be objective .

Peak to peak ; Kobe's performances against Spurs above Jordan's performances against Jazz , Kobe's performances against Kings above Jordan's performances against Pacers.

We must look at competition , not prestige area(An example ; Lakers vs Kings at 2000 and Lakers vs Nets at 2002 ) .

Any person with a slight sense for Basketball would take 1998 MJ over 2001 Kobe :oldlol:

2001 Kobe was publically calling for MVP's and Scoring titles on his watch, right after the MOD had perhaps the GOAT season. The Lakers record dropped, and when he was out injured and the team thrived, thats when he took a change of attitude. He clearly wasn't MJ level for most of the year, with Phil fantasizing about trading options for him.

Now, don't expect this type of stuff to be sitting around in feyki's head.

[feyki]

I think the English Language is a bit of a troubling cause for him... I remember making a detailed post on why Shaq was better than Duncan, after he quoted some random poster with faulty H2H numbers as evidence that Duncan is > Shaq and compared it to Russell's superiority over Wilt :roll:

He came back with the same "please be objective" like here:



Any person with a slight sense for Basketball would take 1998 MJ over 2001 Kobe :oldlol:

2001 Kobe was publically calling for MVP's and Scoring titles on his watch, right after the MOD had perhaps the GOAT season. The Lakers record dropped, and when he was out injured and the team thrived, thats when he took a change of attitude. He clearly wasn't MJ level for most of the year, with Phil fantasizing about trading options for him.

Now, don't expect this type of stuff to be sitting around in feyki's head.


I have a troll german child . How about m

[90sgoat]

Bump because of:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12464669

[ReturnofJPR]

Nice thread OP:applause: