Magic Johnson Top 32 Assists of Career (Video)

[Round Mound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoEl2Oo66IY

:bowdown:

[warriorfan]

Magic Passes like Steph Shoots :applause:

[Velocirap31]

Steve Nash's passes were better.

[Showtime80']

Please! Steve Nash would've been coming off the bench for EVERY TITLE team of the 1980's, yet in the last decade he's a two time MVP. Let that sink in for a minute.

Magic "The Knife" Johnson, the king and leader of the greatest and most enjoyable period in Lakers history. People go gaga over the present day Warriors teamwork and passing but they're doing it with role players, the 80's Celtics and Lakers were more spectacular and had the same offensive chemistry but were filled with all stars and hall of famers which made them even more lethal. They didn't ANYBODY on those teams averaging for than 25 points for a reason and who made that work, Magic and Larry!!!

Can you imagine guys like Kobe, Westbrook and Harden trying to play within that disciplined offensive system? Me neither, Pat Riley would've strangled them within the first 10 minutes of the game. Too dumb with low basketball IQ for that era

[pauk]

imo:

#30 should be #10
#31 should be #9
#17 should be #8
#32 should be #7
#27 should be #6
#24 should be #5
#13 should be #4
#8 should be #3
#18 or #19 should be #1

Those other ones were nice dont get me wrong, they were flashy, but these ones i mentioned shows raw passing skill with a hint of vision the best, ball lazer beaming an inch by 3-4-5 defenders ears, fingers, noses, lips, eyes, forearms or scrotums and then right on the hands to a teammate under the basket (who is surprised like hell the ball got to him). Insane...

[FKAri]

Please! Steve Nash would've been coming off the bench for EVERY TITLE team of the 1980's, yet in the last decade he's a two time MVP. Let that sink in for a minute.

Magic's not gonna be able to guard anyone in today's league where you can't handcheck and have to try to move laterally.

Magic sure as hell isn't backing his ass into someone across halfcourt today either.

Magic = One of the most nostalgically remembered players ever. He was incredible when he came onto the scene like really nothing before. A guy of that size with his abilities. In fact that awe distracts from evaluating him as an actual player. Phenomenal passer and great player but holy fucc is he overrated.

[ClipperRevival]

We seldom see the bounce pass anymore. That's like a lost art. Nothing sweeter than a bounce pass about 40-50 feet away in between several unsuspecting defenders that hits a guy in stride.

[ClipperRevival]

Please! Steve Nash would've been coming off the bench for EVERY TITLE team of the 1980's, yet in the last decade he's a two time MVP. Let that sink in for a minute.

Magic "The Knife" Johnson, the king and leader of the greatest and most enjoyable period in Lakers history. People go gaga over the present day Warriors teamwork and passing but they're doing it with role players, the 80's Celtics and Lakers were more spectacular and had the same offensive chemistry but were filled with all stars and hall of famers which made them even more lethal. They didn't ANYBODY on those teams averaging for than 25 points for a reason and who made that work, Magic and Larry!!!

Can you imagine guys like Kobe, Westbrook and Harden trying to play within that disciplined offensive system? Me neither, Pat Riley would've strangled them within the first 10 minutes of the game. Too dumb with low basketball IQ for that era

Serious question? Do you watch the NBA today? If not, when did you stop? If it was like decades ago, that would explain your skewed view of the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't like some parts of the game either but I still love it and think it's a great product. Sure, it's way too soft but still great.

[pauk]

We seldom see the bounce pass anymore. That's like a lost art. Nothing sweeter than a bounce pass about 40-50 feet away in between several unsuspecting defenders that hits a guy in stride.

Exactly, but hey there are no such great passing PGs today, yes there are great assist men (cp3, rondo etc.) but they dont possess anywhere near such raw passing skill in the vicinity of Magics, the only guys recently ive seen who can make those missle launch passes that thread the needle Magic could make are not PGs, talking about Lebron & perhaps Ginobili. Lebron uses the bounce pass alot, assisted a nice one last game similar to the context you speak of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw4c5pYahFc

[juju151111]

Please! Steve Nash would've been coming off the bench for EVERY TITLE team of the 1980's, yet in the last decade he's a two time MVP. Let that sink in for a minute.

Magic "The Knife" Johnson, the king and leader of the greatest and most enjoyable period in Lakers history. People go gaga over the present day Warriors teamwork and passing but they're doing it with role players, the 80's Celtics and Lakers were more spectacular and had the same offensive chemistry but were filled with all stars and hall of famers which made them even more lethal. They didn't ANYBODY on those teams averaging for than 25 points for a reason and who made that work, Magic and Larry!!!

Can you imagine guys like Kobe, Westbrook and Harden trying to play within that disciplined offensive system? Me neither, Pat Riley would've strangled them within the first 10 minutes of the game. Too dumb with low basketball IQ for that era
Mark price started in that league. Stop the BS

[Showtime80']

Wow, nice to see the ignorance is strong with FKari!

Magic rarely was left alone for long stretches guarding opposing small point guards, he had all time great defensive player Michael Cooper and underrated defender Byron Scott for that and if they got by them Kareem was still protecting the paint. And you're right the present NBA rules RIDICULOUSLY favor offensive players after they started handcuffing defenses in the early 1990's but it goes both ways. What the hell are you going to do with Magic without hand checking and the ability to play him physical?!?

Magic got to were he wanted on the floor, when he wanted against any defense he was up against. With the short soft small ball lineups you have today Magic would do EVEN MORE damage in the post than he did before.

What do you do against him? Can't double him because he will ALWAYS find the open man, can't play him single coverage because he's going to take your ass into the post and baby hook you to death, lay off him on a zone and he drains 18 footers on your head all day long.

And that's just in the half court, haven't even begun to talk about the fast break which the present NBA ALSO SUCKS AT!

[pauk]

Wow, nice to see the ignorance is strong with FKari!

Magic rarely was left alone for long stretches guarding opposing small point guards, he had all time great defensive player Michael Cooper and underrated defender Byron Scott for that and if they got by them Kareem was still protecting the paint. And you're right the present NBA rules RIDICULOUSLY favor offensive players after they started handcuffing defenses in the early 1990's but it goes both ways. What the hell are you going to do with Magic without hand checking and the ability to play him physical?!?

Magic got to were he wanted on the floor, when he wanted against any defense he was up against. With the short soft small ball lineups you have today Magic would do EVEN MORE damage in the post than he did before.

What do you do against him? Can't double him because he will ALWAYS find the open man, can't play him single coverage because he's going to take your ass into the post and baby hook you to death, lay off him on a zone and he drains 18 footers on your head all day long.

And that's just in the half court, haven't even begun to talk about the fast break which the present NBA ALSO SUCKS AT!

This!

[no pun intended]

Disappointed this one didn't make it. It's still my favorite assist of his, especially because it came from a half-court play. Simple yet elegant.

https://youtu.be/q8Qbo0WqvOI?t=4m45s

[FKAri]

Wow, nice to see the ignorance is strong with FKari!

Magic rarely was left alone for long stretches guarding opposing small point guards, he had all time great defensive player Michael Cooper and underrated defender Byron Scott for that and if they got by them Kareem was still protecting the paint. And you're right the present NBA rules RIDICULOUSLY favor offensive players after they started handcuffing defenses in the early 1990's but it goes both ways. What the hell are you going to do with Magic without hand checking and the ability to play him physical?!?

Magic got to were he wanted on the floor, when he wanted against any defense he was up against. With the short soft small ball lineups you have today Magic would do EVEN MORE damage in the post than he did before.

What do you do against him? Can't double him because he will ALWAYS find the open man, can't play him single coverage because he's going to take your ass into the post and baby hook you to death, lay off him on a zone and he drains 18 footers on your head all day long.

And that's just in the half court, haven't even begun to talk about the fast break which the present NBA ALSO SUCKS AT!

You make it sound like Magic is an all-time great player. Oh wait...that's because he is! No one is disputing this but I am tired of this untouchable status he gets as if he were some flawless player. All so you can shit on current great players and act like they couldn't even compete with Magic. Pathetic. Anyways this thread is about Magic's passing. Excuse my tirade.

[Pointguard]

Magic's not gonna be able to guard anyone in today's league where you can't handcheck and have to try to move laterally.

Magic sure as hell isn't backing his ass into someone across halfcourt today either.

Magic = One of the most nostalgically remembered players ever. He was incredible when he came onto the scene like really nothing before. A guy of that size with his abilities. In fact that awe distracts from evaluating him as an actual player. Phenomenal passer and great player but holy fucc is he overrated.
That's obvious because no team does a full court pressure these days. What is your imaginary point here? As for the rest of the post:

Show me any player you think can pass like him.
Show me a player that has won like him in the modern era. Remind you he won more games without Kareem than with him.
Show me a player that had better control of the game, clock and how the other team played their game.
Show me a player that could run the break better.
Show me a player that played more roles offensively (post up, penetrate, shoot, closer, facilitator, leader, support player, every position)
Show me a player that stopped Rodman on the boards in the playoffs.
Show me a player that ran a better offense than him.

Defense wasn't that bad because you won't see another player abusing him either. He lead the league in the steals a couple of years and that was the best defense to offense play in the league probably ever. He could guard 80% of the PF's today pretty easily.

[ClipperRevival]

Exactly, but hey there are no such great passing PGs today, yes there are great assist men (cp3, rondo etc.) but they dont possess anywhere near such raw passing skill in the vicinity of Magics, the only guys recently ive seen who can make those missle launch passes that thread the needle Magic could make are not PGs, talking about Lebron & perhaps Ginobili. Lebron uses the bounce pass alot, assisted a nice one last game similar to the context you speak of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw4c5pYahFc

Nice pass. But Nash was a GOAT level passer too no matter how you slice it.

[ClipperRevival]

That's obvious because no team does a full court pressure these days. What is your imaginary point here? As for the rest of the post:

Show me any player you think can pass like him.
Show me a player that has won like him in the modern era. Remind you he won more games without Kareem than with him.
Show me a player that had better control of the game, clock and how the other team played their game.
Show me a player that could run the break better.
Show me a player that played more roles offensively (post up, penetrate, shoot, closer, facilitator, leader, support player, every position)
Show me a player that stopped Rodman on the boards in the playoffs.
Show me a player that ran a better offense than him.

Defense wasn't that bad because you won't see another player abusing him either. He lead the league in the steals a couple of years and that was the best defense to offense play in the league probably ever. He could guard 80% of the PF's today pretty easily.

When I think of Magic, the first word that comes to mind is "winner". Sure, we can talk about his basketball talents all day but it was what was in between the ears that truly made him special for me. Was there a greater alpha dog to play with than Magic? He made you play hard because he was going to get you the ball if you were open. Then there was his personality, his smile and his ability to relate to people and also lead.

[FKAri]

Nice pass. But Nash was a GOAT level passer too no matter how you slice it.

GOAT level vision but guys like Lebron and Magic have that length and those huge hands giving them the ability to rifle a pass from any angle at high speeds.

Magic's specialty for me was how quickly he processed information in the open court COMBINED with what I described above. That's the one area where I think it's clear to see the difference between Magic and Lebron or anyone else. Just how quick he could react to someone else's movement and make the correct decision on the fly and use his length/hands to fire a bullet through a needle's eye. This was what set Magic apart from everyone else.

[pauk]

You make it sound like Magic is an all-time great player. Oh wait...that's because he is! No one is disputing this but I am tired of this untouchable status he gets as if he were some flawless player. All so you can shit on current great players and act like they couldn't even compete with Magic.



Imagine Lebron with GOAT level ballcontrol, post game & footwork (certainly Magic was better at that than any guy his size ever by far).... imagine him also having even better passing skills / vision (GOAT at that actually)... now most importantly imagine him also starting PG, forcing guys 100 lbs & ~8" smaller trying to stop him from backing them down all the way from even the 3pt line (or full damn court) to right under the rim, without physicality / handchecking, he wont settle for any jumpshots, he will do this every single time because you cant do anything about it.... hence which forces the team defense to 100% guaranteed always either give him 2 easiest guaranteed points (how in the world does any PG stop him!? it might aswell be Shaq vs PGs there!) or double/triple team him and make him zip the ball to the most open teammates all game long?

How do you contain this even slightly? Tell me? Such a player doesnt need to have on / off night, its always ON because the havoc it creates is inevitable and simple for the player to perform, its either 2 points in the paint or a wideopen teammate taking the shot every single possession.....

Like, if he played against Warriors today... Curry would most likely eventually be switched by somebody like Draymond Green (better containing, but still not stopping Magic).... who does Curry then guard? A 6'6" SG? A 6'8" SF? A PF? Center? Who? Do you just bench him to try fix the crazy mismatch problems? Great, then Magics team has already won by nullifying Currys impact (which is huge).... Do you just keep Curry in there and try trade baskets? Im sure Magic wouldnt be able to contain Curry so much either, but somebody else could guard him & switch Magic to an SF, no problem at all.... and wouldnt you say Magics way is more higher percentage way of getting more points on the boxscore anyways? Its like playing unbeatable chess, always a retaliation... the league in the 80s was just lucky it was that stacked & had those rules, today he would be the most unfair player ever.

The mismatch problems & headaches such a PG as Magic would create especially today is completely insane dont you understand..... its like a kryptonite for any team defensively....

Its for this exact reason i always wanted Lebron to start PG / develope there and try to do the same, but he didnt want to, he could have been something close that guy creating those ridicilous problems, but nooooo he wanna score, like Mike if i could be like Mike.... there will NEVER be a player like Magic again.... there will be perhaps some 6'7" PG (maybe even taller?) in the future, but NONE with those skills/talent required to exploit that size like Magic could at PG.... he is easily the rarest player ive ever seen.

[pauk]

Nice pass. But Nash was a GOAT level passer too no matter how you slice it.

Yea, but he is retired. :(

[Showtime80']

Nice post Pointguard!

The thing that to me that separates Magic and that entire generation of players was their basketball IQ and fundamentals which were OFF THE CHARTS!!! The generations that came after Jordan have sacrificed those two qualities for athleticism and raw skills that are not been polished before getting to the pro level so they end up acquiring a lot of bad habits along the way and that has translated in the overall deterioration of the quality of the game and why the league was FORCED to change a bunch of rules in order to alter the downward spiral it was heading in the mid 1990's.

Guys like Harden, Westbrook, McGrady, Vince Carter and even Kobe are very good players but they were/are nowhere near the level of Magic and his contemporaries in basic fundamentals and intelligence of the game. You can get away with that in this era which is very forgiving and encourages VOLUME scoring but that undisciplined raw style wouldn't work in the 80's or before.

In response to Clippers revival, I became a Lakers fan around 1984 and struggled through the tough years after Magic and the growing pains with Del, Shaq and Kobe but I was also more of an NBA fan back then as well a fact that started waning in the mid 90's because of the increasing decrease in fundamentals and the arrival of the "Me" generation of the early to mid 90s. But man, you really had to be their in the 1980's to believe it, specially around 1987-88. The league had 23 teams and at least 15 of them had transcendant superstars and hall of famers in their lineups:

Celtics- Bird
Lakers- Magic
Pistons- Isiah
Sixers- Barkley
Bulls- Jordan
Hawks- Wilkins
Rockets- Olajuwon
Blazers- Drexler
Knicks- Ewing
Jazz- Stockton and Malone
Mavericks- Aguirre
Warriors- Mullin
Suns- KJ
Cavs- Price and Harper
Bucks- Moncrieff

The league was STACKED!!! An those weren't "one man" lottery teams, they were PLAYOFF TEAMS!

In today's league maybe the Cavs with LeBron, Warriors with Curry, Thunder with Durant and the fundamental play of the Spurs and Duncan are the ONLY teams worth watching and that's 4 out of 30!

You can see why a fan brought up in the 80's would be a little spoiled!

[mehyaM24]

You make it sound like Magic is an all-time great player. Oh wait...that's because he is! No one is disputing this but I am tired of this untouchable status he gets as if he were some flawless player. All so you can shit on current great players and act like they couldn't even compete with Magic. Pathetic. Anyways this thread is about Magic's passing. Excuse my tirade.

but, magic was a flawless offensive player.

great midrange game, amazing ft shooter, had seasons where he could shoot the 3 above average, and is the goat playmaker.

when you combine the fact he could rebound, score, and pass at an elite level, you're talking about a walking triple-double. he had many of those.

[Round Mound]

Nice post Pointguard!

The thing that to me that separates Magic and that entire generation of players was their basketball IQ and fundamentals which were OFF THE CHARTS!!! The generations that came after Jordan have sacrificed those two qualities for athleticism and raw skills that are not been polished before getting to the pro level so they end up acquiring a lot of bad habits along the way and that has translated in the overall deterioration of the quality of the game and why the league was FORCED to change a bunch of rules in order to alter the downward spiral it was heading in the mid 1990's.

Guys like Harden, Westbrook, McGrady, Vince Carter and even Kobe are very good players but they were/are nowhere near the level of Magic and his contemporaries in basic fundamentals and intelligence of the game. You can get away with that in this era which is very forgiving and encourages VOLUME scoring but that undisciplined raw style wouldn't work in the 80's or before.

In response to Clippers revival, I became a Lakers fan around 1984 and struggled through the tough years after Magic and the growing pains with Del, Shaq and Kobe but I was also more of an NBA fan back then as well a fact that started waning in the mid 90's because of the increasing decrease in fundamentals and the arrival of the "Me" generation of the early to mid 90s. But man, you really had to be their in the 1980's to believe it, specially around 1987-88. The league had 23 teams and at least 15 of them had transcendant superstars and hall of famers in their lineups:

Celtics- Bird
Lakers- Magic
Pistons- Isiah
Sixers- Barkley
Bulls- Jordan
Hawks- Wilkins
Rockets- Olajuwon
Blazers- Drexler
Knicks- Ewing
Jazz- Stockton and Malone
Mavericks- Aguirre
Warriors- Mullin
Suns- KJ
Cavs- Price and Harper
Bucks- Moncrieff

The league was STACKED!!! An those weren't "one man" lottery teams, they were PLAYOFF TEAMS!

In today's league maybe the Cavs with LeBron, Warriors with Curry, Thunder with Durant and the fundamental play of the Spurs and Duncan are the ONLY teams worth watching and that's 4 out of 30!

You can see why a fan brought up in the 80's would be a little spoiled!

:applause:

[ClipperRevival]

Nice post Pointguard!

The thing that to me that separates Magic and that entire generation of players was their basketball IQ and fundamentals which were OFF THE CHARTS!!! The generations that came after Jordan have sacrificed those two qualities for athleticism and raw skills that are not been polished before getting to the pro level so they end up acquiring a lot of bad habits along the way and that has translated in the overall deterioration of the quality of the game and why the league was FORCED to change a bunch of rules in order to alter the downward spiral it was heading in the mid 1990's.

Guys like Harden, Westbrook, McGrady, Vince Carter and even Kobe are very good players but they were/are nowhere near the level of Magic and his contemporaries in basic fundamentals and intelligence of the game. You can get away with that in this era which is very forgiving and encourages VOLUME scoring but that undisciplined raw style wouldn't work in the 80's or before.

In response to Clippers revival, I became a Lakers fan around 1984 and struggled through the tough years after Magic and the growing pains with Del, Shaq and Kobe but I was also more of an NBA fan back then as well a fact that started waning in the mid 90's because of the increasing decrease in fundamentals and the arrival of the "Me" generation of the early to mid 90s. But man, you really had to be their in the 1980's to believe it, specially around 1987-88. The league had 23 teams and at least 15 of them had transcendant superstars and hall of famers in their lineups:

Celtics- Bird
Lakers- Magic
Pistons- Isiah
Sixers- Barkley
Bulls- Jordan
Hawks- Wilkins
Rockets- Olajuwon
Blazers- Drexler
Knicks- Ewing
Jazz- Stockton and Malone
Mavericks- Aguirre
Warriors- Mullin
Suns- KJ
Cavs- Price and Harper
Bucks- Moncrieff

The league was STACKED!!! An those weren't "one man" lottery teams, they were PLAYOFF TEAMS!

In today's league maybe the Cavs with LeBron, Warriors with Curry, Thunder with Durant and the fundamental play of the Spurs and Duncan are the ONLY teams worth watching and that's 4 out of 30!

You can see why a fan brought up in the 80's would be a little spoiled!

So you don't watch the NBA anymore?

But i am also a Laker fan and started following my Lakers HARDCORE around 1989. Still remember the heartache of Magic inuring his hamstring in the finals. But I have watched the game ever since then and still think it's a great game. I think you are selling this era short. Yes, I agree that some of the fundamentals are lacking. Also, the game is WAY too soft. When I used to play, hard fouls were part of the game jusg as hand checking was. The game was just more physical. And when you take away physicality, you take away a part of the game. But it's still basketball at the highest level.

[Showtime80']

Brilliant post Pauk!!!

Magic could've averaged 30 ppg on 50% in HIS SLEEP if he wanted to but he understood and dissected the game (Like Bird) at a level that few people have done so before or since. He knew he could impact the game more by controlling tempo and using EVERY player on his team like pieces on a chess board by making them threats to score every time he had the ball.

Today's PG's, thanks to the decrease in fundamentals and the "I wanna score like Mike" factor that Pauk mentioned, have lost that mentality and have altered the fluidity and quickness of present day offenses PROFOUNDLY.

Like Norm Nixon said once, average to good PG's get their teammates 3's and long 2's, GREAT PG's get their teammates layups and dunks. Show me a highlight reel of Westbrook, Rose or even CP3 leading a fast break like Magic did, YOU CAN'T!

Today's players play checkers and Connect Four, the 80's superstars were grand Chess Masters!

[FKAri]

You really dont understand, let me try...

Imagine Lebron with GOAT level ballcontrol, post game & footwork (certainly Magic was better at that than any guy his size ever by far).... imagine him also having even better passing skills / vision (GOAT at that actually)... now most importantly imagine him also starting PG, forcing guys 100 lbs & ~8" smaller trying to stop him from backing them down all the way from even the 3pt line (or full damn court) to right under the rim, without physicality / handchecking, he wont settle for any jumpshots, he will do this every single time because you cant do anything about it.... hence which forces the team defense to 100% guaranteed always either give him 2 easiest guaranteed points (how in the world does any PG stop him!? it might aswell be Shaq vs PGs there!) or double/triple team him and make him zip the ball to the most open teammates all game long?

How do you contain this even slightly? Tell me? Such a player doesnt need to have on / off night, its always ON because the havoc it creates is inevitable and simple for the player to perform, its either 2 points in the paint or a wideopen teammate taking the shot every single possession.....

Like, if he played against Warriors today... Curry would most likely eventually be switched by somebody like Draymond Green (better containing, but still not stopping Magic).... who does Curry then guard? A 6'6" SG? A 6'8" SF? A PF? Center? Who? Do you just bench him to try fix the crazy mismatch problems? Great, then Magics team has already won by nullifying Currys impact (which is huge).... Do you just keep Curry in there and try trade baskets?

The mismatch problems & headaches such a PG as Magic would create especially today is completely insane dont you understand..... its like a kryptonite for any team defensively....

Its for this exact reason i always wanted Lebron to start PG / develope there and try to do the same, but he didnt want to, he could have been something close that guy creating those ridicilous problems, but nooooo he wanna score, like Mike if i could be like Mike.... there will NEVER be a player like Magic again.... there will be perhaps some 6'7" PG (maybe even taller?) in the future, but NONE with those skills/talent required to exploit that size like Magic could at PG.... he is easily the rarest player ive ever seen.

I understand what I saw...live. It WAS special. My point still stands.

->No need to shit on newer eras.

The gap between all the greats (that I've seen) is pretty close. Only MJ has a bit of a gap and I don't even know who I'd put directly under him (from the guys I've seen LIVE so no Wilt/Russell tho I have my opinions on them from tape and only am willing to compare them to their own era counterparts).


Brilliant post Pauk!!!

Magic could've averaged 30 ppg on 50% in HIS SLEEP if he wanted to but he understood and dissected the game (Like Bird) at a level that few people have done so before or since. He knew he could impact the game more by controlling tempo and using EVERY player on his team like pieces on a chess board by making them threats to score every time he had the ball.

Today's PG's, thanks to the decrease in fundamentals and the "I wanna score like Mike" factor that Pauk mentioned, have lost that mentality and have altered the fluidity and quickness of present day offenses PROFOUNDLY.

Like Norm Nixon said once, average to good PG's get their teammates 3's and long 2's, GREAT PG's get their teammates layups and dunks. Show me a highlight reel of Westbrook, Rose or even CP3 leading a fast break like Magic did, YOU CAN'T!

Today's players play checkers and Connect Four, the 80's superstars were grand Chess Masters!

^ mostly BS. Bolded the laughable parts.

I only agree with the "Like Mike" factor. As much as Bird*/Magic brought the NBA out of the doldrums of hero ballers and made it about team play, MJ convinced a whole generation of players that hero ball is the way to go. It seems like lately we've started swinging back to team play with the MDA offense to its more modern incarnation. I don't hear the retarded term "alpha dog" used as much anymore either.

*one nitpick, Larry did often like others to "give me the ball and get out of the way" :oldlol: Love Larry tho, probably more than Magic if I'm honest.

[Showtime80']

I watch a couple of games here and there but just can't stand the video game soft direction the league has gone in the last 15+ years. At the end of the day, aside from the COLLOSAL talent the league had in the 80's, what made the league special were the hardcore RIVALRIES!!! Teams literally hated each other with a passion and that brought an edge to the games that has all but vanquished in the "buddy buddy" NBA of the 21st century.

I still bleed purple and gold but I can't deny that the Shaq-Kobe feud left a bad taste in my mouth and I really lost a lot of interest on the team once Kobe was left as the one man show. I still appreciated his talents but his selfish style and attitude is not something I want the Lakers to experience again. I want Showtime or even the Lake Show mindset to come back!!!

[Showtime80']

So FKari, you think that a league full of PG's with a score first mentality shooting the ball 20+ times a game, not even trying to push the ball on the fast break and when they do they're looking to score themselves and sucking the air out of the ball in the half court looking for a 3 pointer or a layup with no in between game is a good thing!?!

[FKAri]

So FKari, you think that a league full of PG's with a score first mentality shooting the ball 20+ times a game, not even trying to push the ball on the fast break and when they do they're looking to score themselves and sucking the air out of the ball in the half court looking for a 3 pointer or a layup with no in between game is a good thing!?!

Well the rules have changed. PGs aren't dumping it to bigs anymore for one. The game isn't inside-out like it was. What they do with the new rules is up to the players. The optimal solution will work itself out over each iteration/season. Teams will copy the past iteration and tinker with it. Rarely you will get a paradigm shift like the Suns. A team that was copied despite not winning. Now that system is tinkered and used by the Spurs, the Hawks and the ultimate iteration, the Warriors. I love watching them play? Don't you?

I have grown to prefer the new rules because the end game WILL BE better basketball. The end game is to give guards more of an advantage over big guys. It allows for more skills to be showcased than strength. Basketball is inherently a skill game. It was always supposed to be. I want less 7 foot oafs who have 0 talent and couldn't sprint without falling over in the game. I want guys with ball skills who actually play the game rather than those picked out of a back water jungle because they're the tall freak. We don't get a Steph Curry with old rules. And I like Steph Curry.

[ClipperRevival]

I watch a couple of games here and there but just can't stand the video game soft direction the league has gone in the last 15+ years. At the end of the day, aside from the COLLOSAL talent the league had in the 80's, what made the league special were the hardcore RIVALRIES!!! Teams literally hated each other with a passion and that brought an edge to the games that has all but vanquished in the "buddy buddy" NBA of the 21st century.

I still bleed purple and gold but I can't deny that the Shaq-Kobe feud left a bad taste in my mouth and I really lost a lot of interest on the team once Kobe was left as the one man show. I still appreciated his talents but his selfish style and attitude is not something I want the Lakers to experience again. I want Showtime or even the Lake Show mindset to come back!!!

Don't get me started on the lack of real rivalries based on physicality and fights and trash talking. That's one of THE best reasons to watch a rivalry, for the chance of a fight! The buddy buddy thing amongst superstars is annoying. But that's just me growing up in an era where rivals didn't hang out all the time.

Ditto with Kobe. Being a purist, I think the game should be played the right way and when Kobe plays hero ball, it annoys the hell out of me.

[Kblaze8855]

Magic's not gonna be able to guard anyone in today's league where you can't handcheck and have to try to move laterally.

Magic would do exactly what he did in the 80s. Get beat by small guards and be put on a wing or power forward.




Magic sure as hell isn't backing his ass into someone across halfcourt today either.

Magic = One of the most nostalgically remembered players ever. He was incredible when he came onto the scene like really nothing before. A guy of that size with his abilities. In fact that awe distracts from evaluating him as an actual player. Phenomenal passer and great player but holy fucc is he overrated.

Having watched him at his best.....id say pretty much every aspect of his game is underrated. People act like he was some all time terrible defender...he wasnt. He just wasnt noteworthy and couldnt guard quick guys 7 inches shorter than him. He also led the NBA in steals like 3 times. He was just....passable on defense. While his reputation to people who barely know of him...is that he was terrible.


Hes known as a fast break player who was limited as a scorer compared to most greats...when he showed literally dozens of times that he could score if he chose to. He went out scoring like 27 a game when Kareem got hurt at one point. Not to mention the 40+ to win the title as a rookie. Magic could have just scored himself plenty of times and put up 26/9 instead of 18/13. He was one of the best post players in the NBA period...and by the time he developed his slow but respectable 3...he was a prety well rounded scorer. He was able to go to the basket, pullup, score in the post, and was as unstoppable on the break as anyone. But his lack of scoring is often called out. He didnt score because he didnt choose to. Magic had hooks, fadeaways, and couldnt be stopped when he attacked.

The way they ran Magic could have:


http://giant.gfycat.com/PalatableIllGalapagostortoise.gif


his way to 27/30 a game with little trouble.


His passing is known...how entertaining he was..people are aware...but its still underrated. Magic wasnt just a great passer...he was out there literally making plays nobody saw before and nobody does now. He was without question the ballsiest passer ever. He was throwing halfcourt bounce passes...bullets...in traffic. Others could potentially do it...Magic was among the only who would. And he did it all the time.

Guy who compared his passing to Stephs shooting was right on it. Magics passing was reason enough to watch a game. He wasnt out there looking good in highlights. You watch Magic...he was a show EVERY game. Though maybe at the time he was showing off for the national tv games...but I know when I watched Magic he was a ****ing event.

He was such a consistient highlight you couldnt just watch the recap after the game....Magic was making so many highlights recaps didnt have time to cover them.

He played so flamboyant....it was bordering on out of control.

Magic was without a doubt the greatest show in history. Not just because of his style...but he KNEW you watched to see a show...and he made sure you got it.




That last all star game might be the best example. hes got aids...retires. Fans vote him in anyway. He walks off the street...and wins MVP having brought the arena to its feet the whole 4th. To close the game he makes 2 straight 3s....has 2 no look bullet pass assists...gets the crowd hyped taking on Isiah and MJ one on one and getting pumped when he got the "stops"....and he walks down...and takes a post up fadeaway 3 and leaves the wrist hanging as the building erupts:






http://giant.gfycat.com/AnguishedInsignificantAsiaticlesserfreshwaterclam. gif





Thats Magic Johnson. He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down.

How many millions of people must have jumped up and went crazy at that moment. I know the room I was in did. I remember it like yesterday.

You can call it nostalgia...I call it making a lasting impression on peoples lives. Magic had grown men crying when he got sick.

Magic was as great a showman as as ever existed in sports. And probably as great a winner as anyone outside Russell. Magic is one of those guys who generates chemistry. If you cant play with Magic and love the game...you just cant be helped.

Hes right up there as one of the great competitiors the sport has seen. Magic went hard...every game. Made entire arenas remember why they loved the game...every game. Had a whole generation of us kicking up the leg before a no look on the playground after he was on tv.

How major Magic Johnson was is if anything undersold and under appreciated by people who were not there to see it.

Magic isnt anything close to overrated.

Too many people under 30 dont have any idea how good or significant he was.

[FKAri]

long post

You could've skimmed the rest of the thread before committing to such a long post man. What I wrote might seem harsher than it was meant to be because it was out of frustration.

[Pointguard]

When I think of Magic, the first word that comes to mind is "winner". Sure, we can talk about his basketball talents all day but it was what was in between the ears that truly made him special for me. Was there a greater alpha dog to play with than Magic? He made you play hard because he was going to get you the ball if you were open. Then there was his personality, his smile and his ability to relate to people and also lead.
Yeah, I could have said with conviction who could adjust better than Magic? He outrun those Denver teams and then play the slow down game the next day against the Piston's or Celtics.

I could have said who is going to exploit a blown defensive assignment or get the most out of a mismatch.

I could have said who was going to execute the clock better.

I could have said who had better split second judgement than Magic.

I could have said name me a player that could feature a player better than Magic. Who could feature a non offensive player like Rambis better than Magic.

What player had a reward system for stellar defensive plays.

And as you said it was the in between the ears game. The putting everybody on the same page game he had. The making other players better where you visibly see it every game is Magic. The getting the non involved player fully into the game and making him feel like he's key to the process of winning - there are a lot of things you don't see in todays game... but its a great and different game now.

[ClipperRevival]

Magic would do exactly what he did in the 80s. Get beat by small guards and be put on a wing or power forward.





Having watched him at his best.....id say pretty much every aspect of his game is underrated. People act like he was some all time terrible defender...he wasnt. He just wasnt noteworthy and couldnt guard quick guys 7 inches shorter than him. He also led the NBA in steals like 3 times. He was just....passable on defense. While his reputation to people who barely know of him...is that he was terrible.


Hes known as a fast break player who was limited as a scorer compared to most greats...when he showed literally dozens of times that he could score if he chose to. He went out scoring like 27 a game when Kareem got hurt at one point. Not to mention the 40+ to win the title as a rookie. Magic could have just scored himself plenty of times and put up 26/9 instead of 18/13. He was one of the best post players in the NBA period...and by the time he developed his slow but respectable 3...he was a prety well rounded scorer. He was able to go to the basket, pullup, score in the post, and was as unstoppable on the break as anyone. But his lack of scoring is often called out. He didnt score because he didnt choose to. Magic had hooks, fadeaways, and couldnt be stopped when he attacked.

The way they ran Magic could have:


http://giant.gfycat.com/PalatableIllGalapagostortoise.gif


his way to 27/30 a game with little trouble.


His passing is known...how entertaining he was..people are aware...but its still underrated. Magic wasnt just a great passer...he was out there literally making plays nobody saw before and nobody does now. He was without question the ballsiest passer ever. He was throwing halfcourt bounce passes...bullets...in traffic. Others could potentially do it...Magic was among the only who would. And he did it all the time.

Guy who compared his passing to Stephs shooting was right on it. Magics passing was reason enough to watch a game. He wasnt out there looking good in highlights. You watch Magic...he was a show EVERY game. Though maybe at the time he was showing off for the national tv games...but I know when I watched Magic he was a ****ing event.

He was such a consistient highlight you couldnt just watch the recap after the game....Magic was making so many highlights recaps didnt have time to cover them.

He played so flamboyant....it was bordering on out of control.

Magic was without a doubt the greatest show in history. Not just because of his style...but he KNEW you watched to see a show...and he made sure you got it.




That last all star game might be the best example. hes got aids...retires. Fans vote him in anyway. He walks off the street...and wins MVP having brought the arena to its feet the whole 4th. To close the game he makes 2 straight 3s....has 2 no look bullet pass assists...gets the crowd hyped taking on Isiah and MJ one on one and getting pumped when he got the "stops"....and he walks down...and takes a post up fadeaway 3 and leaves the wrist hanging as the building erupts:






http://giant.gfycat.com/AnguishedInsignificantAsiaticlesserfreshwaterclam. gif





Thats Magic Johnson. He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down.

How many millions of people must have jumped up and went crazy at that moment. I know the room I was in did. I remember it like yesterday.

You can call it nostalgia...I call it making a lasting impression on peoples lives. Magic had grown men crying when he got sick.

Magic was as great a showman as as ever existed in sports. And probably as great a winner as anyone outside Russell. Magic is one of those guys who generates chemistry. If you cant play with Magic and love the game...you just cant be helped.

Hes right up there as one of the great competitiors the sport has seen. Magic went hard...every game. Made entire arenas remember why they loved the game...every game. Had a whole generation of us kicking up the leg before a no look on the playground after he was on tv.

How major Magic Johnson was is if anything undersold and under appreciated by people who were not there to see it.

Magic isnt anything close to overrated.

Too many people under 30 dont have any idea how good or significant he was.

:applause:

Miss him so much. He WAS Showtime. I don't care what you say about KAJ or Worthy or Riley. Magic was the guy who brought it all together and made it work. KAJ didn't win sh't without Magic for nearly a decade. Then this rookie shows up, changes the culture of the franchise and they win it all his rookie year. Coincidence? Yeah right.

[FKAri]

Thats Magic Johnson. He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down.

How many millions of people must have jumped up and went crazy at that moment. I know the room I was in did. I remember it like yesterday.

You can call it nostalgia...I call it making a lasting impression on peoples lives. Magic had grown men crying when he got sick.

Magic was as great a showman as as ever existed in sports. And probably as great a winner as anyone outside Russell. Magic is one of those guys who generates chemistry. If you cant play with Magic and love the game...you just cant be helped.

Hes right up there as one of the great competitiors the sport has seen. Magic went hard...every game. Made entire arenas remember why they loved the game...every game. Had a whole generation of us kicking up the leg before a no look on the playground after he was on tv.

How major Magic Johnson was is if anything undersold and under appreciated by people who were not there to see it.

Magic isnt anything close to overrated.

Too many people under 30 dont have any idea how good or significant he was.

This part of your post is more emotional than scientific. This is where sports analysis becomes murky. Separating the man from the legend. Greatness vs ability. I'm not implying anything against Magic here just that there is a difference between evaluating a player's heroics and critiquing his ability objectively. I have no problem with either of those avenues but it's sort of like trying to evaluate Ali as a boxer. Very hard to separate the icon from the man. And it's never clear which one is being analyzed.

"He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down." quite a bit of sports cliches and hyperbole there when arguing for a player objectively, no? If this is how Magic is objectively remembered by future generations than he is the GOAT. No human can match that level of omnipotence.

[Kblaze8855]

Rest assured that post had little to do with you and a lot to do with Magic.

Im still mad I never got to see him live in his prime.

Hes the only all time great of my life I missed.

I dont know what it is but ive not generated an emotional connection to how great anyone is except MJ, Magic, and Bird. Not like it was just...me being young at the time. There were other great players. Nique was great.....and flashy. But I didnt just....feel in awe.

Those 3 had something nobody else did at the time.

I bet Dr.J did in the ABA and his early NBA days. People seem to have that seem feeling about him.

The only guy right now I can even see getting near there is Steph. Combines being likable with an awe inspiring skillset.

I could see current 12 year olds telling their grandkids "When I was your age we had guys dribble behind the back, split the double, and pull up from 30 feet....and make so many we stopped caring!"

Steph has a "Thats bullshit old man...." quality to his game like Larry Bird had. You sound like youre exaggerating when you say Larry was hitting floaters that went 20 feet up...from 15 feet out...and wetting 4 point play fall out of bounds shots so nasty the opposing bench was falling all over themselves....but it happened vs Atlanta.

The people your kids wont believe you about without youtube....those are the guys who make the sport what it is.

Magic was one of those guys.

[FKAri]

Rest assured that post had little to do with you and a lot to do with Magic.

I don't know what this means??

[ClipperRevival]

This part of your post is more emotional than objective. This is where sports analysis becomes murky. Separating the man from the legend. Greatness vs ability. I'm not implying anything against Magic here just that there is a difference between celebrating a player and critiquing him. I have no problem with either of those avenues but it's sort of like trying to evaluate Ali as a boxer. Very hard to separate the icon from the man. And it's never clear which one is being analyzed.

"He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down." quite a bit of sports cliches and hyperbole there when arguing for a player objectively, no? If this is how Magic is objectively remembered by future generations than he is the GOAT. No human can match that level of omnipotence.

True. But your scenario applies to any legend we were touched by. It's more than just stats or rings. It's how that player made you feel. I grew up a die hard Magic fan so he holds a special place in my heart. And I am sure you have a player that impacted you at an age when you were impressionable. It's one of the reasons we have heroes and follow sports. It's just part of life I guess.

[Kblaze8855]

This part of your post is more emotional than objective. This is where sports analysis becomes murky. Separating the man from the legend. Greatness vs ability. I'm not implying anything against Magic here just that there is a difference between celebrating a player and critiquing him. I have no problem with either of those avenues but it's sort of like trying to evaluate Ali as a boxer. Very hard to separate the icon from the man. And it's never clear which one is being analyzed.

"He knows the world is watching and he wont let them down." quite a bit of sports cliches and hyperbole there when arguing for a player objectively, no? If this is how Magic is objectively remembered by future generations than he is the GOAT. No human can match that level of omnipotence.

Here is my problem....

Is what I said untrue?

Magic came out of retirement and took over and gave the world one more show down the stretch.

It may be cliche...but how is it not an accurate description of what happened?

True greatness blurs the line between praise and tall tales.

Magic had a straight up fairytale ending to that game. Its a storybook unrealistic happy ending. Comes out of retirement for one more game....takes it over late...ends it with 3 straight 3s and wins MVP.

It sounds like fiction.

Doesnt mean it didnt happen.

[ClipperRevival]

Rest assured that post had little to do with you and a lot to do with Magic.

Im still mad I never got to see him live in his prime.

Hes the only all time great of my life I missed.

I dont know what it is but ive not generated an emotional connection to how great anyone is except MJ, Magic, and Bird. Not like it was just...me being young at the time. There were other great players. Nique was great.....and flashy. But I didnt just....feel in awe.

Those 3 had something nobody else did at the time.

I bet Dr.J did in the ABA and his early NBA days. People seem to have that seem feeling about him.

The only guy right now I can even see getting near there is Steph. Combines being likable with an awe inspiring skillset.

I could see current 12 year olds telling their grandkids "When I was your age we had guys dribble behind the back, split the double, and pull up from 30 feet....and make so many we stopped caring!"

Steph has a "Thats bullshit old man...." quality to his game like Larry Bird had. You sound like youre exaggerating when you say Larry was hitting floaters that went 20 feet up...from 15 feet out...and wetting 4 point play fall out of bounds shots so nasty the opposing bench was falling all over themselves....but it happened vs Atlanta.

The people your kids wont believe you about without youtube....those are the guys who make the sport what it is.

Magic was one of those guys.

Amazing to think that those 3 played in the same era, competing for rings. Feel privileged to have watched Magic and MJ. Magic for his charisma, smile and his Showtime play and MJ for just being the GOAT and being able to witness basketball being played at a level that might never be reached. MAYBE EVER.

[FKAri]

Well we're off topic all I wanted to point out was. Can we please not utterly disrespect greats from other eras just because they have no emotional connection to you. See my post #29.

Anyways, back to Magic. Hope young guys on the board watch the OP. Although Adrian Dantley highlights would probably better help you AAU ballers out there.

[Pointguard]

Rest assured that post had little to do with you and a lot to do with Magic.

Im still mad I never got to see him live in his prime.


Seeing showtime was my best basketball experience ever tho, seeing Jordan was more hypnotizing. Seeing Showtime was a different kind of product. With Showtime it was best to see it from higher seats because Magic used the whole court and you could see plays develop like you were in Magic's head. You would get four or five big time gifts of art materializing in your head with a bang. Something about the guys knowing great formation so that his brilliance could show. Something about watching the different angles work was magical. And the number of great plays was about the same as watching Jordan, who always had great games at the Garden.

[Psileas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoEl2Oo66IY

:bowdown:

Is the whole play at 31 at normal speed? It can't be so, the ball is moving at like 50 mph. :wtf:

[juju151111]

Magic played basketball after missing 5 years in 96 and still averged 15 and 6 on 46%. He was 36 years old.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Magic = Greatest

[KevinNYC]

Phenomenal passer and great player but holy fucc is he overrated.And led several of the greatest offenses of all time.

His team had the highest field goal percentage in the league several years running.

[Hey Yo]

And led several of the greatest offenses of all time.

His team had the highest field goal percentage in the league several years running.
That's because LA's division foes were garbage, conference wasn't much better and had a stacked team.

[Showtime80']

Dude the Lakers shot 52% in both their 1985 and 87 Finals victories over the Celtics and 47% in 1988 against a great Pistons defense basically playing 4 against 5 as Kareem was running on fumes by that point. They were going to get theirs against ANYBODY, Pacific, Central, Atlantic or Midwest division, you weren't stopping Showtime!

With players like Magic and Bird you know that they're are NEVER going to settle for a bad shot unless the offense absolutely breaks down and that was a rare occurrence since both the Celtics and Lakers ran symphony like schemes on offense that were well oiled machines both in the half court and fast break situations.

Magic is the GREATEST offensive conductor in NBA history. I laugh every time a knuckle head like Russell Westbrook gets mentioned even in the same sentence with Magic. Show me a highlight reel of Westbrook creating layups and dunks for his teammates like Magic is doing in that video, you can't because there is isn't one! Westbrook in a million lifetimes couldn't play the position as effectively as Magic and if you turn it around and give Magic the green light to shoot the ball as many times as Russell does he would score more points on a heck of a lot better efficiency!

[4 Inches]

Quizmaster Johnson :applause:

[Hey Yo]

Dude the Lakers shot 52% in both their 1985 and 87 Finals victories over the Celtics and 47% in 1988 against a great Pistons defense basically playing 4 against 5 as Kareem was running on fumes by that point. They were going to get theirs against ANYBODY, Pacific, Central, Atlantic or Midwest division, you weren't stopping Showtime!
Dude that I quoted said LA had the highest FG% in the league for several years running. A few Final series shooting a good team % doesn't change the fact that outside of the Lakers, the Pacific division was shit for the entire 80's and the conference as a whole wasn't much better.

It's not hard to believe that they would put up a very good FG% and be one of the leagues highest.

[Sarcastic]

Dude that I quoted said LA had the highest FG% in the league for several years running. A few Final series shooting a good team % doesn't change the fact that outside of the Lakers, the Pacific division was shit for the entire 80's and the conference as a whole wasn't much better.

It's not hard to believe that they would put up a very good FG% and be one of the leagues highest.


So Lebron's stats have to be looked at the same way, yea?

Thanks for letting us know.

[Hey Yo]

So Lebron's stats have to be looked at the same way, yea?

Thanks for letting us know.
Comparing the 80's Pacific to LeBron's 8yrs in Central??

:oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Comparing the 80's Pacific to LeBron's 8yrs in Central??

:oldlol:


80s West >>>> dumpster fire East for the past decade.

[3ball]

Anyone who wonders whether Magic would play point guard in today's game - consider this:

Magic Johnson is the all-time APG leader in regular season and playoffs - the next 25 guys ARE ALL POINT GUARDS...

Therefore, throughout history, anytime there was a someone EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE to passing as well as Magic (all of the top 25 guys in apg), they played point guard... Every time.

There's never been anyone that averaged anywhere NEAR Magic's assist level, that didn't play PG... Ever

[Showtime80']

Thanks Sarcastic! The West had a 47% winning average against the East from 1980 to 1991 while the East has had a 42% winning average against the West since 2003 (LeBron's career). Not even close.

[sd3035]

seems like it was in random order, but awesome passes by Magic

We've been lucky to have seen the best passer (Magic), best shooter (Steph), best dunkers (Vince/Zach) all in the last 30 years

[Hey Yo]

80s West >>>> dumpster fire East for the past decade.
LeBron's 8yrs (so far) playing in the Central (Cavs talent included) plus the defense faced >>>> dumpster fire Pacific-no defense playing-Western conference the stacked Lakers faced.

[Dragonyeuw]

Magic's not gonna be able to guard anyone in today's league where you can't handcheck and have to try to move laterally.

.

Magic wasnt a good defender against the great wings and PG even with handchecking, so that dynamic would play out the same today. Defensively in todays game, with small ball ruling the day, you can get away with playing him against a number of SFs and PFs, the only ones who will give him trouble will be the ones who gave everyone problems ie Lebron, George, Durant, Melo etc. The door also swings the other way, without handchecking who other than Lebron/ Kawhi/ George/ Durant would bother him defensively? He's going to have the ability to direct and control the offense free of the same handchecking that you say would render him helpless on defense. Magic only needed a split second to make bullet point passes, now let that situation play out with him mostly physically unimpeded

The thing with Magic is his best atrribute, passing, would transcend any era. He's still unique at 6'8 with that level of ball control and on the fly decision making. The closest we've seen is Lebron in terms of size/skillset and he is not at *that* level as a passer where he could completely dominate a game just with that aspect.

[gcvbcat]

does anyone know how many ponts abdul scored off magic assists.