Replace Curry with prime Michael Jordan

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.csnbayarea.com/sites/csnbayarea/files/curry-stephen-smile.jpg

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj7f3jx8fk1qi7wv6o1_500.jpg

What happens to the team?

Could Michael Jordan do what Curry is doing for that Warriors team?

Would he make it a better team? Or a worse team?

Keep in mind, Michael Jordan was not a good 3 point shooter, and was a volatile personality to get along with on any team. Punched Kerr, and other teammates in the face. Would the PC friendly fun-having Warriors squad be able to put up with his antics or is he just a player that only works out on the teams he played on in his own era?

[outbreak]

Replace OP with prime Gilbert Arena. Would his posts improve in quality or get worse?

[3ball]

.
Jordan scored more with less time of possession and equal efficiency, so the Warriors would be even better.

Especially given this (defense):


http://cdn.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/michael-jordan-defense-5.jpg


Bulls DRTG 1991-1993:. 7th, 4th, 7th
Bulls DRTG in .1994...:.. 6th

Bulls ORTG 1991-1993: .1st all-time (115 ORtg - highest ever)
Bulls ORTG in ..1994..:.. 14th in league (106.1 ORtg)


As you can see, MJ enabled a two-way team, which shouldn't be surprising, because Popovich said MJ is the standard for 2-way play:


"He (Kawhi) has the ability to do what a Michael Jordan did at both ends, and I don’t mean he’s Michael Jordan,” Popovich said. “But you think about the best players in the league, they’re not two-way players. He wants to do that.”

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2015/11/11/kawhi-leonard-gregg-popovich-spurs-charles-barkley-michael-jordan/75612616/


So take Curry, and make him a better scorer... Than give superior athleticism and defense than Kawhi - that's the goat - that's MJ.
.

[Thunderfan86]

I really like 3ball

[deja vu]

Dynasty.

[1987_Lakers]

Jordan on the Warriors would ruin the ball movement and the Warriors are left with no point guard, not to mention the Warriors already have a legit 2 guard in Klay Thompson, so there is no need for Jordan on this team.

[deja vu]

Jordan on the Warriors would ruin the ball movement and the Warriors are left with no point guard, not to mention the Warriors already have a legit 2 guard in Klay Thompson, so there is no need for Jordan on this team.
Then let Klay play point guard. Why would Jordan ruin ball movement, that has never been an issue with the Bulls back then. Jordan would make this Warriors team better, especially on defense.

[1987_Lakers]

Klay at point guard? That is laughable.

If there was ever a prototypical 2 guard it is Klay Thompson, you can have Jordan at SF, but you still have that hole at PG, Livingston would be the PG, he is a nice role player but not starter worthy. Then you have Barnes & Iggy off the bench fighting over minutes, which means you will have one legit NBA player not getting the playing time he should.

The defense would be improved with MJ, but I question if the offense would be as dominant as it is with Curry based on how this team is built. Jordan wouldn't be able to play pick and roll with Green the same way Curry and Green play it just because Jordan isn't the shooter Curry is.

People need to realize that the 2 man game between Curry & Green alone allows Draymond to get all those assists, with Jordan on the team you wouldn't see Draymond create for others as he does for Curry.

The offense with Jordan would change big time, you would see more ISOs with Jordan and less ball-movement in which it might be just as effective, but the team as a whole wouldn't be as fun to watch.

[Lebronxrings]

jordan was way too ball dominant. He ruins the ball movement and is terrible off ball.

[warriorfan]

Then let Klay play point guard. Why would Jordan ruin ball movement, that has never been an issue with the Bulls back then. Jordan would make this Warriors team better, especially on defense.

:wtf:

:roll:

[deja vu]

Good points. The Warriors are already close to perfect as a team.

[3ball]

Jordan on the Warriors would ruin the ball movement



Jordan had lower time of possession than Curry - he held the ball less, which means he would enhance ball movement.

There's never been a better off-ball player than Jordan:


https://media.giphy.com/media/Erx5BCUlFuzuM/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/FQAyoyJTSk6fC/giphy.gif

[1987_Lakers]

....

You obviously haven't seen enough Warriors' games if you think Jordan wouldn't effect the ball movement.

[diamenz]

what year is prime mike to you, op? mj was only ball dominant in the eighties before pj came long.

[FreezingTsmoove]

They lose a few of the past 20 games but they win the chip easily in June

I mean seriously which C in the west is stopping him in the paint? :lol

Dude would body the shit out of old man Duncan, and probably would set the record for amount of posters in one series on Enes Kenter

[SyRyanYang]

They lose a few of the past 20 games but they win the chip easily in June

I mean seriously which C in the west is stopping him in the paint? :lol

Dude would body the shit out of old man Duncan, and probably would set the record for amount of posters in one series on Enes Kenter

haha this is so true.

[juju151111]

You obviously haven't seen enough Warriors' games if you think Jordan wouldn't effect the ball movement.
No he wouldn't. Mj was just has good has Curry with off ball movement. He never messed up the Bulls Ball movement. They routinely averged 20+ asts

[juju151111]

Klay at point guard? That is laughable.

If there was ever a prototypical 2 guard it is Klay Thompson, you can have Jordan at SF, but you still have that hole at PG, Livingston would be the PG, he is a nice role player but not starter worthy. Then you have Barnes & Iggy off the bench fighting over minutes, which means you will have one legit NBA player not getting the playing time he should.

The defense would be improved with MJ, but I question if the offense would be as dominant as it is with Curry based on how this team is built. Jordan wouldn't be able to play pick and roll with Green the same way Curry and Green play it just because Jordan isn't the shooter Curry is.

People need to realize that the 2 man game between Curry & Green alone allows Draymond to get all those assists, with Jordan on the team you wouldn't see Draymond create for others as he does for Curry.

The offense with Jordan would change big time, you would see more ISOs with Jordan and less ball-movement in which it might be just as effective, but the team as a whole wouldn't be as fun to watch.
Huh? Once again Mj is one of the best off ball players ever similar to Curry. Its the reason he was putting up decent stats at 38 before injures.

[Marchesk]

The season Jordan played PG part of the time he did average:

32.5/8/8 on 53.8%. Of course he didn't do it shooting many threes. But let's not pretend that he couldn't have been a great scoring PG in today's league. Not in the Curry mold, but think of an efficient Westbrook.

[warriorfan]

OMG!

They would make the Finals and its Wilt vs Lebron there!!. That would create a space/time anomaly, a black hole sucking everyone to another dimension, one where everyone chokes.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marchesk]

They would make the Finals and its Wilt vs Lebron there!!. That would create a space/time anomaly, a black hole sucking everyone to another dimension, one where everyone chokes.

Hilarious, but wrong thread brah. It took me a minute to figure out how MJ on the Warriors gives you a Wilt/Lebron final, but I finally managed.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol :lol got the wrong thread

[warriorfan]

:lol :lol got the wrong thread

still good shit tho :oldlol:

[Straight_Ballin]

No he wouldn't. Mj was just has good has Curry with off ball movement. He never messed up the Bulls Ball movement. They routinely averged 20+ asts

Not only that, but are we going to pretend that the GOAT MJ wouldn't have just as good of a three point shot as Curry if he decided that it was necessary? As if the guy who puts basketball above anything else wouldn't have just as good of a 3 point shot? Look who has the all time highest 3pt %. His former teammate, Steve Kerr. MJ didn't develop a 3 pointer because he and his coaches felt that he didn't NEED to. If he felt the need for it, he would have added it to his game. Instead, he spent time perfecting other aspects of his game, the ones which enable someone to go 6/6 in finals with 6 FMVPs.... ya....those aspects.:lol

[SugarHill]

Not only that, but are we going to pretend that the GOAT MJ wouldn't have just as good of a three point shot as Curry if he decided that it was necessary? As if the guy who puts basketball above anything else wouldn't have just as good of a 3 point shot? Look who has the all time highest 3pt %. His former teammate, Steve Kerr. MJ didn't develop a 3 pointer because he and his coaches felt that he didn't NEED to. If he felt the need for it, he would have added it to his game. Instead, he spent time perfecting other aspects of his game, the ones which enable someone to go 6/6 in finals with 6 FMVPs.... ya....those aspects.:lol
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7AtwzDlG--/886813887726407309.gif

you're not even being sarcastic

[Harison]

Team dynamic would change, but unlike with Curry, I would be 100% sure MJ would win the ring with this team. Curry likely too, but 70-80% chance.

[plowking]

Team dynamic would change, but unlike with Curry, I would be 100% sure MJ would win the ring with this team. Curry likely too, but 70-80% chance.

:oldlol:

What an absolute load of shit.

[IMObjective]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7AtwzDlG--/886813887726407309.gif

you're not even being sarcastic
I don't think it's laugh worthy, if Jordan came up in today's league he probably would have a much better 3 point shot. Given how important the three pointer has become, no doubt Jordan would have worked on that aspect of his game a LOT more. He probably couldn't get as good as curry at it, but he's got other advantages on Curry.

[1987_Lakers]

Not only that, but are we going to pretend that the GOAT MJ wouldn't have just as good of a three point shot as Curry if he decided that it was necessary? As if the guy who puts basketball above anything else wouldn't have just as good of a 3 point shot? Look who has the all time highest 3pt %. His former teammate, Steve Kerr. MJ didn't develop a 3 pointer because he and his coaches felt that he didn't NEED to. If he felt the need for it, he would have added it to his game. Instead, he spent time perfecting other aspects of his game, the ones which enable someone to go 6/6 in finals with 6 FMVPs.... ya....those aspects.:lol

This has to be the worst post I have ever seen on this site, you have to be kidding me.

And I thought Wilt stans were delusional.:oldlol:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Dude would body the shit out of old man Duncan

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[FKAri]

Not only that, but are we going to pretend that the GOAT MJ wouldn't have just as good of a three point shot as Curry if he decided that it was necessary? As if the guy who puts basketball above anything else wouldn't have just as good of a 3 point shot? Look who has the all time highest 3pt %. His former teammate, Steve Kerr. MJ didn't develop a 3 pointer because he and his coaches felt that he didn't NEED to. If he felt the need for it, he would have added it to his game. Instead, he spent time perfecting other aspects of his game, the ones which enable someone to go 6/6 in finals with 6 FMVPs.... ya....those aspects.:lol


Holy fucc. Im really speechless. Don't know which gif to use or what analogy to give. Bookmarked for future reference

[senelcoolidge]

jordan was way too ball dominant. He ruins the ball movement and is terrible off ball.

A lot less ball dominant than Curry and Lebron that's for sure. Jordan could create offense or play off the ball spectacularly.

[ralph_i_el]

0-20

MJ was never good

[SHAQisGOAT]

Well, Jordan was definitely a better overall player (who could also beast off the ball), and he's one of the GOAT winners... So I don't know :rolleyes:

[ShawkFactory]

Not only that, but are we going to pretend that the GOAT MJ wouldn't have just as good of a three point shot as Curry if he decided that it was necessary? As if the guy who puts basketball above anything else wouldn't have just as good of a 3 point shot? Look who has the all time highest 3pt %. His former teammate, Steve Kerr. MJ didn't develop a 3 pointer because he and his coaches felt that he didn't NEED to. If he felt the need for it, he would have added it to his game. Instead, he spent time perfecting other aspects of his game, the ones which enable someone to go 6/6 in finals with 6 FMVPs.... ya....those aspects.:lol
Just a hideous post. Particularly your first sentence.

Could Jordan have developed a reliable 3pt shot if he put emphasis on it? Yes, almost certainly.

Could he make damn near 50% while taking over 10 a game? Almost certainly not.

[DrakeTheSnake]

I'm 100% sure that this Warriors team with Jordan instead of Curry would not have a better record. :D

[jstern]

Jordan would bring a lot of qualities, attributes to the table. Being a different player, style, and by far the best player, the coaches will surround him with a lineup that best suits him.

Are you asking Jordan to emulate Curry's game? Play his style? That would not be the smartest thing to do.

As far as his personality. You just can't take isolated in the heat of the moment moments, and then just create a whole personality around it. From what I've read Jordan used to get a long well with his teammates, hang out, play cards. Including Steve Kerr. He even apologized to Kerr soon after, and Jordan vowed, or something similar, that something like that will never happened again with Kerr.

[90sgoat]

Kawhi is killing the league shooting mid range jumpers on 50+ FG% and you fools don't think the GOAT mid range and at rim finisher would beast lol.

[sd3035]

they'd be about 12-8 right now

low seed in the playoffs, first round exit

[senelcoolidge]

Would the 90's Bulls do better with Curry rather than MJ?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

People saying defense would get better. Kind of like how it got better when Jordan retired in '93 and the Bulls defense got better the following season?

:oldlol:

[references]

anyone else sick of jordan? we get it. he was the greatest. move the hell on

[Psileas]

Hilarious, but wrong thread brah. It took me a minute to figure out how MJ on the Warriors gives you a Wilt/Lebron final, but I finally managed.

It's OK, bullshitting also creates space-time anomalies from time to time.

[CTbasketball92]

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--7AtwzDlG--/886813887726407309.gif

you're not even being sarcastic

I do think its beyond stretching to suggest that MJ would come close to Curry's 3point jumper ... BUT, in an era when the 3pointer is so emphasized, it isnt a stretch at all to see MJ shooting about 38% from long range on 3 attempts a game. He's as good a mid-range shooter as anyone ever.

As for how the warriors would do with Prime MJ? They'd maybe have lost a few games, but They would win the NBA championship pretty handily. MJ is basically a 6'6" Westbrook with more coordination and much better efficiency. Its hard for anyone to be better than that ... (no one is).

[TonyMontana]

Look at all of these idiots with their preexisting agendas who don't even consider team fit.

Yes Jordan would rape Curry in a game of 1 on 1.

No the Warriors would not be better. The team thrives on Currys shooting and ball handling. Both of which is superior to MJ. Curry is currently scoring this season just about as good as MJ ever did, and his shooting is worlds ahead.

Posting up(one of MJs strengths) is also not as viable in today's NBA.

The defense would be better, but their already good enough. The offense, and ball movement is what makes that team truly unique, and it would take a nosedive with Jordan.

[3ball]

Curry is currently scoring this season just about as good as MJ ever did



Jordan had a 21-game stretch that was superior to Curry's across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg

links to MJ data:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_advanced


MJ scored 28.6% of his team's points in regular season and 30.0% in playoffs, compared to Curry's 27.8% this year... And MJ was also the Bulls' best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFuf0tcRes&t=8m35s).
.

[3ball]

Jordan had a 21-game stretch that was superior to Curry's across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg

links to MJ data:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_advanced


MJ scored 28.6% of his team's points in regular season and 30.0% in playoffs, compared to Curry's 27.8% this year... And MJ was also the Bulls' best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFuf0tcRes&t=8m35s).


http://i.imgur.com/ByQSoLU.gif

[TonyMontana]

Jordan had a 21-game stretch that was superior to Curry's across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg

links to MJ data:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_advanced


MJ scored 28.6% of his team's points in regular season and 30.0% in playoffs, compared to Curry's 27.8% this year... And MJ was also the Bulls' best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFuf0tcRes&t=8m35s).
.

The fact that you had to cherry pick Michael freaking Jordans best 21 game stretch of his career to find a comparison for Steph Currys 2015 season is indirect praise to just how good Curry has been this year.

Like I said Curry is scoring as good this year as Jordan ever has and the numbers are quite similar.

Yet its Currys shooting(I notice you failed to include Jordans 3 point percentage. :roll: ), ball handling, and the spacing of the Warriors that makes them so unique.

[diamenz]

3ball gonna cry a river when curry beats mj's 72-10.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

http://i.imgur.com/ByQSoLU.gif

Curry TS% 70

Jordan TS% 63.5

also, so Jordan's best stretch is marginally better than Curry's first 20 games?

[Straight_Ballin]

If you replace Curry with Prime MJ you get just as good offensive production and superior defensive production. Why is this even being entertained? Come back and talk to me when Curry obtains a DPOY award. Until then, there's nothing to discuss with regards to an MJ vs Curry comparison other than Curry's team possibly beating MJ's team record for reg season wins.

[3ball]

Curry TS% 70

Jordan TS% 63.5


Jordan's efficiency was superior because he produced more per possession:

Jordan ORtg 132
Curry. ORtg 128
.

[3ball]

JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic[/I]
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_advanced[/size]





The fact that you had to cherry pick Michael freaking Jordans best 21 game stretch of his career to find a comparison for Steph Currys 2015 season is indirect praise to just how good Curry has been this year.


That stretch isn't REMOTELY close to Jordan's best stretch - it's just a stretch where he beats Curry in every production category, while also having better efficiency.

Btw, 1991 Jordan scored 28.6% of his team's points in regular season and 30.0% in playoffs, compared to Curry's 27.8% this year... And MJ was also the Bulls' best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFuf0tcRes&t=8m35s).

[ShawkFactory]

That stretch isn't REMOTELY close to Jordan's best stretch - it's just a stretch where he beats Curry in every production category, while also having better efficiency.

Btw, 1991 Jordan scored 28.6% of his team's points in regular season and 30.0% in playoffs, compared to Curry's 27.8% this year... And MJ was also the Bulls' best defender (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFuf0tcRes&t=8m35s).
You realize Jordans scoring more of the teams points can be directly attributed to playing 20% more minutes right?

[sd3035]

You realize Jordans scoring more of the teams points can be directly attributed to playing 20% more minutes right?

Also being a less efficient chucker

[3ball]

You realize Jordans scoring more of the teams points can be directly attributed to playing 20% more minutes right?


More desperate lies - MJ played 37.0 mpg in 1991 regular season, compared to 34.3 per game for Curry this year.

In the playoffs, MJ played 40.5 mpg compared to 39.3 mpg for Curry in 2015 playoffs... But MJ scored 30% of his team's points, compared to 27% for Curry.

[LoneyROY7]

Curry putting up better numbers than MJ while playing only 34 minutes a game. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Also being a less efficient chucker



It's statistical fact that MJ scored 35% more per possession than Curry, on better per-possession efficiency:


Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN: 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg
CURRY..: 32.5 pts.. 115 ORtg






Also being a chucker



Even this season, Curry's ORtg is 128, which is less than Jordan's 132 over his superior 21-game stretch shown below:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Again, this stretch is nowhere near MJ's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board.

[sd3035]

:rant


70% TS for Curry :applause:

[3ball]

Curry putting up better numbers than MJ while playing only 34 minutes a game. :oldlol:



Show me where Curry has better production:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Again, this stretch is nowhere near MJ's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board.

[3ball]

70% TS for Curry



There are big men that just dunk who have similar TS.. Otoh, points per possession is the gold standard for efficiency, and MJ's was higher:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Again, this stretch is nowhere near MJ's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board.

[livinglegend]

Cavs beats Warriors in the finals this year if you replace Curry with MJ.

[sd3035]

Cavs beats Warriors in the finals this year if you replace Curry with MJ.

Spurs would knock them off before that

[sd3035]

There are big men that just dunk who have similar TS.. Otoh, points per possession is the gold standard for efficiency, and MJ's was higher:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Again, this stretch is nowhere near MJ's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board.


TS is much better, Jordan was a chucker, Curry moves the ball around



70% TS :applause: :applause:

[3ball]

TS is much better, Jordan was a chucker, Curry moves the ball around


I'll take the guy that gets more points-per-possession and you take the TS guy.

Let's see who wins.. :roll:

[sd3035]

I'll take the guy that gets more points-per-possession and you take the TS guy.

Let's see who wins.. :roll:

You can take the guy who takes shots on a higher percentage of his possessions. I'll take the guy who scores more efficiently when he shoots, and shares the ball more

[dhsilv]

Huh? Once again Mj is one of the best off ball players ever similar to Curry. Its the reason he was putting up decent stats at 38 before injures.

The bulls created a whole offense around MJ to get the ball out of his hands but still let him be dominate. He wouldn't fit in their spacing. He would mess up their offense.

I'm sure there are ways to work around his issues, he is MJ after all, but it would not be an easy change.

[ShawkFactory]

More desperate lies - MJ played 37.0 mpg in 1991 regular season, compared to 34.3 per game for Curry this year.

In the playoffs, MJ played 40.5 mpg compared to 39.3 mpg for Curry in 2015 playoffs... But MJ scored 30% of his team's points, compared to 27% for Curry.
Isn't the argument about this curry, not last year? Either way.,Give him an extra 3 minutes and he scores a higher percentage of his teams points.

And have Curry play 41 minutes instead of 34 and he's scoring more than 30% of his teams points.

[3ball]

Cavs beats Warriors in the finals this year if you replace Curry with MJ.



:biggums:


Jordan's first 20 Finals games: 35.5 ppg.. 6.5 rpg.. 7.4 apg.. 51.2 fg
Jordan's. Career in the. Finals: 33.4 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 48.1 fg
Steph. Curry's.. 2015... Finals: 26.0 ppg.. 5.2 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 44.3 fg


Gimme a ****ing break

[1987_Lakers]

TS is much better, Jordan was a chucker, Curry moves the ball around



70% TS :applause: :applause:
:cheers:

MJ overrated

[3ball]

The bulls created a whole offense around MJ to get the ball out of his hands but still let him be dominate. He wouldn't fit in their spacing. He would mess up their offense.



Like you said, MJ dominated with a lower time of possession - accordingly, he fits into ANY offense because he doesn't need the ball as much as Curry does.. You argued against yourself.





I'm sure there are ways to work around his issues, he is MJ after all, but it would not be an easy change.


You didn't mention a SINGLE issue - you said MJ had low time of possession (which is a good thing) and then just blindly claimed he had "issues".. You have no credibility.

Low time of possession is a BOON to any team, not an issue.

[ShawkFactory]

:biggums:


Jordan's first 20 Finals games: 35.5 ppg.. 6.5 rpg.. 7.4 apg.. 51.2 fg
Jordan's. Career in the. Finals: 33.4 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 48.1 fg
Steph. Curry's.. 2015... Finals: 26.0 ppg.. 5.2 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 44.3 fg


Gimme a ****ing break
Now you're using FG%? :lol

[3ball]

I'll take the guy who scores more efficiently when he shoots


Curry produces less points every time he "uses" a possession.

"Usage" is defined as shot attempts, FT's and turnovers - these are the ways a possession can be "used".

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.
.

[3ball]

destroyed

[3ball]

Curry shares the ball more


Curry's assist averages at his higher scoring level are the same as MJ's.

However, MJ shares the ball more because he achieves his stats with lower time of possession - so teammates have the ball in their hands more alongside MJ than Curry.

[3ball]

Curry produces less points every time he "uses" a possession.

"Usage" is defined as shot attempts, FT's and turnovers - these are the ways a possession can be "used".

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.


https://media.riffsy.com/images/788dc6574f3f8999c867d38fd0504fad/raw

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Jordan's efficiency was superior because he produced more per possession:

Jordan ORtg 132
Curry. ORtg 128
.


Lolwut.

Lucky asf that I pulled off an all nighter and am going to sleep now/in 5 minutes...

But first of all, it's literally a box score based stat. Fplii literally explained this, and showed the damn formula. there are 2 separate stats.

Second of all, considering you believe it to be godsend, tell me, who lead the league in that stat last year, and why did he rank ahead of Peak Duncan, peak Hakeem, peak Garnett, peak Kareem, peak shaq, peak bird, etc.

Also, miller and cp3 have higher ones than mj...
Harden in his last ok cool year tied mj's peak...
Rodman peaked higher than mj...
Tyson chandler has the top 2 spots...

[3ball]

.
From basketball-reference.com:



In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role.


Both Curry and MJ have been #1 options for their entire careers, but MJ is just far more productive and efficient one:


Per 100 Possessions:

JORDAN: 43.3 pts.. 118 ORtg
CURRY:.. 32.5 pts.. 115 ORtg

[3ball]

But first of all, ORtg is a box score based stat.


TS is also a boxscore stat dumbass.

ORtg is the better efficiency measure because it measures points produced when the player "uses" a possession (usage).

There are 3 ways a possession can be "used" - shot attempts, free throws, or turnovers.

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

TS is also a boxscore stat dumbass.

ORtg is the better efficiency measure because it measures points produced when the player "uses" a possession (usage).

There are 3 ways a possession can be "used" - shot attempts, free throws, or turnovers.

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

I'll prolly go to sleep now, as its late asf. Don't know why I'm even replying at this point

The difference is, ts% is a statistic that literally is just weighting fg,3pt, and fts.

Also, your arguement doesn't make sense. From a glance (I'm sleepy asf right now) the calculation looks wonky.

If you classify a possession ending in those 3 ways, then curry has
23.8 possessions a game and 6.2 free throws. (Where he makes 5.8)

Jordan has 24.7 possessions a game and 7.2 free throws. (Where he makes 6.1)

Setting free throws as 0.5 possessions possessions

Jordan has roughly 28.3 possessions a game

Curry has 26.8 a game.

32/26.8 vs 32.8/28.3

[PistonsFan#21]

TS is also a boxscore stat dumbass.

ORtg is the better efficiency measure because it measures points produced when the player "uses" a possession (usage).

There are 3 ways a possession can be "used" - shot attempts, free throws, or turnovers.

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

what about assists? are they factored in that stat?

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

what about assists? are they factored in that stat?

They are, I think. Method is online.

Don't ask him about it, or me actually, ask someone like fplii.

He doesn't have a clue on it, and my info on it isn't the best.

[3ball]

If you classify a possession ending in those 3 ways


That's the DEFINITION OF USAGE...

It isn't my calculation - I'm not "classifying" anything.





Jordan has 24.7 possessions a game and 7.2 free throws. (Where he makes 6.1)


You aren't a professional stats guy... Don't try to do the math when the pros have already done it for us...

MJ produced more points per possession (ORtg)... The stats show that... If you really want to look up the components of ORtg, it's explained here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

[fpliii]

what about assists? are they factored in that stat?

No, usage doesn't include assists.


Usg%

Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)). Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor.

source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

[sd3035]

Curry with that 70% TS on 32 ppg, Jordan was nowhere near that :bowdown:

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

No, usage doesn't include assists.


source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html


2 things.

1, I thought he was talking about offensive rating (individual)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Obviously, you've seen this, since u are like the, bball stat God, but I mean, I think it factors in team assists and player assists

2, can u explain to him why off rtg isn't an end all?

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

That's the DEFINITION OF USAGE...

It isn't my calculation - I'm not "classifying" anything.



You aren't a professional stats guy... Don't try to do the math when the pros have already done it for us...

MJ produced more points per possession (ORtg)... The stats show that... If you really want to look up the components of ORtg, it's explained here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html


I'm using ur definition mate.

[3ball]

I'm using ur definition mate.


When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact.

Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

that is all

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

When Curry "uses" a possession, he produces less points - this is statistical fact.

Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

that is all

Jesus Christ.

It's not a play by play stat, it's a box score stat.

Like, ffs it ain't a perfect estimate at all.

[fpliii]

as i said earlier, usage is shot attempts, free throws and turnovers.

usage is the percentage of team plays "used" by a player in one of these three ways.
This is correct.

2 things.

1, I thought he was talking about offensive rating (individual)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Obviously, you've seen this, since u are like the, bball stat God, but I mean, I think it factors in team assists and player assists

2, can u explain to him why off rtg isn't an end all?
1) Offensive rating includes assists (look how many times 'AST' is mentioned on that link). Usage is one of the contexts for it (how often a guy ends a possession could be indicative of his role).
2) Eh, it's subjective. I wouldn't use it (though I evaluate players differently than most), but he can if he wants (and again, usage gives context to it).

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

This is correct.

1) Offensive rating includes assists (look how many times 'AST' is mentioned on that link). Usage is one of the contexts for it (how often a guy ends a possession could be indicative of his role).
2) Eh, it's subjective. I wouldn't use it (though I evaluate players differently than most), but he can if he wants (and again, usage gives context to it).

1) ok, thanks.

2) that's not really the reason. It's more because it's literally the only thing he is saying at this point.

I mean, he legitimately has not said anything else.

[3ball]

Jesus Christ.

It's not a play by play stat, it's a box score stat.

Like, ffs it ain't a perfect estimate at all.


TS is also a boxscore stat that doesn't include assists or turnovers.. Whereas ORtg includes both.





Like, ffs it (ORtg) ain't a perfect estimate at all.


It isn't perfect, but it's a better box score efficiency measure than TS.. From basketball-reference.com:


"Individual offensive rating is the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'"

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html


Curry produces less points for his team per 100 possessions than MJ - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

TS is also a boxscore stat that doesn't include assists or turnovers.. Whereas ORtg includes both.

From basketball-reference.com:


"Individual offensive rating is the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'"


Curry produces less points for his team per 100 possessions than MJ - this is statistical fact - Curry has lower ORtg than MJ, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

Gee, I wonder why a stat called true shooting percentage doesn't measure assists?

[IGOTGAME]

they would rob be a lot worst. Jordan played point guard and it wasnt a pretty picture. Jordan also once had a pretty good team...they didnt do very well.

[3ball]

Gee, I wonder why a stat called true shooting percentage doesn't measure assists?
See that's my point - individual offensive rating measures PER POSSESSION - that includes anything that can occur on a possession, including assists and turnovers.

MJ produced more points PER POSSESSION for his team than Curry, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

But don't feel bad - MJ produced more per possession than almost any #1 option.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

See that's my point - individual offensive rating measures PER POSSESSION - that includes anything that can occur on a possession, including assists and turnovers.

MJ produced more points PER POSSESSION for his team than Curry, whether it's during MJ's superior 21-game stretch, or for their whole careers.

But don't feel bad - MJ produced more per possession than almost any #1 option.

Your entire arguement is based off offensive rating... Which is far from a perfect stat.

to prove that the absolute best stretch of mj's career is on par with curry's first 20 games...

Not only that, but everyone knows that curry's assist numbers are down because Raymond is taking a passing role... Which would increase his offensive rating a lot. Leads the league in secondary assists btw.

And I'll post some stuff later...

[3ball]

to prove that the absolute best stretch of mj's career is on par with curry's first 20 games...




:biggums:


Like I said before - this stretch is nowhere NEAR Jordan's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg

[Straight_Ballin]

Cavs beats Warriors in the finals this year if you replace Curry with MJ.

And the award for the dumbest post of the month goes to..... livinglegend.

If you replace Curry with Prime MJ you get just as good offensive production and superior defensive production. Come back and talk to me when Curry obtains a DPOY award. Until then, enjoy watching a one way player as the face of the current NBA. :rolleyes:

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

:biggums:


Like I said before - this stretch is nowhere NEAR Jordan's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Nice bluff mate.

5 stretches where he was better in the rs. 21 games.

Also, yeah.... Offrtg is rarely used anymore lol...

And considering that curry has given the passing role to draymond (leads the league in secondary assists)...

Your telling me that curry won't average 8 a game?

And that curry

And that some of his turnovers are a result of him showing off late when winning by 20+...

And that the formula doesn't even make much sense, because of how it's calculated...

And that realistically, this hasn't even been a dream stretch for curry, look at the deviation...

And that, well, point guards generally have more turnovers, because, you know, they handle the ball...
(And considering the Warriors offense currently is the best of all time by some distance... I guess he is doing that job pretty darn well... And turnovers decrease when he is on the court... So yeah... Lol)

Btw, the same stat says that Davis is better than Hakeem, Kareem, Duncan, etc...

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

:biggums:


Like I said before - this stretch is nowhere NEAR Jordan's best - but you guys are so obsessed with efficiency, so I posted a 21-game stretch where MJ had superior efficiency, while still having superior production across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 GAMES): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.3 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (20 GAMES): 32.0 ppg.. 5.1 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.4 spg.. 0.2 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.0 ts.. 128 ortg


Not only that, but pg with always have more turnovers, because that's their role.

Draymond took away assists from curry because that's the current system. He leads the league in secondary assists though.

And considering some of his turnovers come from playing around while up by 20

(And turnovers go down with him on the court)



And that the formula is shaky at best, and curry will almost certainly have better 20 game stretches according to your flawed statistic (considering that he had 3 or 4 "bad games" it wasn't a perfect storm at all)

And that the way it classifies a possession doesn't make sense... Considering that curry had 23 possession ending events against Charlotte, 40 points. And had a low offensive rating...

Btw, same stat says that Davis is better than Hakeem, Duncan, Garnett, etc.

And judging from the fact that the Warriors offense is the best ever by a landslide...

Points above 2nd place, +6.2

Bulls never got 2 points above second.

Oh, and btw, Warriors offense is below league average with curry off the floor.

[dhsilv]

Not only that, but pg with always have more turnovers, because that's their role.

Draymond took away assists from curry because that's the current system. He leads the league in secondary assists though.

And considering some of his turnovers come from playing around while up by 20

(And turnovers go down with him on the court)



And that the formula is shaky at best, and curry will almost certainly have better 20 game stretches according to your flawed statistic (considering that he had 3 or 4 "bad games" it wasn't a perfect storm at all)

And that the way it classifies a possession doesn't make sense... Considering that curry had 23 possession ending events against Charlotte, 40 points. And had a low offensive rating...

Btw, same stat says that Davis is better than Hakeem, Duncan, Garnett, etc.

And judging from the fact that the Warriors offense is the best ever by a landslide...

Points above 2nd place, +6.2

Bulls never got 2 points above second.

Oh, and btw, Warriors offense is below league average with curry off the floor.

3ball has some special needs and he's just not all there. You're just wasting time debating him. He's really a sad case.

That said you should adjust both players stats for minutes played if you really want to compare but again it's just not worth the effort to deal with 3 ball and he's mental issues.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

3ball has some special needs and he's just not all there. You're just wasting time debating him. He's really a sad case.

That said you should adjust both players stats for minutes played if you really want to compare but again it's just not worth the effort to deal with 3 ball and he's mental issues.

Yeah, I know.

i mean, what he is saying is that he picked out a random stretch and Jordan was much better than curry in that stretch, despite curry being far more efficient, by saying that his off rtg was higher, ignoring roles, and the obvious flaws in the stat itself.

Looking at 91, his peak year, there is literally no combination that could make it better.
And according to this (flawed) statistic, curry himself has been better overall. He just had 1 or 2 really bad days, which should hardly count since they already won.

Minutes adjusted, well, that's curry's specialty lol.

[juju151111]

Yeah, I know.

i mean, what he is saying is that he picked out a random stretch and Jordan was much better than curry in that stretch, despite curry being far more efficient, by saying that his off rtg was higher, ignoring roles, and the obvious flaws in the stat itself.

Looking at 91, his peak year, there is literally no combination that could make it better.
And according to this (flawed) statistic, curry himself has been better overall. He just had 1 or 2 really bad days, which should hardly count since they already won.

Minutes adjusted, well, that's curry's specialty lol.
Mj played defense through so i think even out with Curry efficiency.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Damn, 3ball got torched in this thread.

:lol

MJ just fell out of my top 3 after witnessing the destruction of ISH's most dedicated Ordin stan.

:(

[tpols]

Damn, 3ball got torched in this thread.

:lol

MJ just fell out of my top 3 after witnessing the destruction of ISH's most dedicated Ordin stan.

:(

:lol

Jordan was pretty good.. not curry good tho

[sd3035]

Ordan was good during his time in the no defense era, but his game would take a hit with today's more evolved style of play. Curry averages 45 easily in the late 80s

Jordan was good, but not Curry good

[tpols]

Ordan was good during his time in the no defense era, but his game would take a hit with today's more evolved style of play. Curry averages 45 easily in the late 80s

Jordan was good, but not Curry good

lmao, took me a sec

[90sgoat]

lmao, took me a sec

Stupidity is mindblowing, Jordan having the only unguardable shot in history outside of the Sky Hook and it was a jumpshot:facepalm

http://images.rapgenius.com/a166a4dcc909727f0a429ad67bd70faa.450x241x133.gif

[dhsilv]

Yeah, I know.

i mean, what he is saying is that he picked out a random stretch and Jordan was much better than curry in that stretch, despite curry being far more efficient, by saying that his off rtg was higher, ignoring roles, and the obvious flaws in the stat itself.

Looking at 91, his peak year, there is literally no combination that could make it better.
And according to this (flawed) statistic, curry himself has been better overall. He just had 1 or 2 really bad days, which should hardly count since they already won.

Minutes adjusted, well, that's curry's specialty lol.

Wow, I have him on the ignore list since I just lost my mind with his constant cherry picked stats and to be honest I never could get why he liked offensive rating so much. It's a part of how winshare is created if I remember correctly and I don't doubt it has value. But it also heavily favors ball dominant players (something Jordan was despite other claims that he played off the ball so much). Meanwhile curry creates assists for teammates by just standing on the floor because of how defenses bend and stretch to assure he doesn't get open. I've seriously never seen anything like it.

Add in his stats are just insane and he's playing about 34 minutes a game. It's other worldly.

[Jameerthefear]

Damn, 3ball got torched in this thread.

:lol

MJ just fell out of my top 3 after witnessing the destruction of ISH's most dedicated Ordin stan.

:(
Completely destroyed :oldlol: Jordan is no longer respected by anyone.

[hateraid]

ISH just hasn't learned yet. Replace any star player with Jordan and they automatically become the best team in the league. He's the greatest plug and play player of all-time. Replace Okafor with Jordan and the Sixers are 20-1. Replace Johnny Manziel with Jordan and his bench presence alone gives the Brown a Superbowl. He holds the ball longer then any player in leagues history at the same time as having the lowest time of possession. There would be no ball movement AND ball movement at the same time. He's just that transcendent

[3ball]

.
UPDATED - Jordan's most efficient 21 games vs. Curry's current 21 games:


JORDAN 1991 (21 games): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.5 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (21 games): 32.6 ppg.. 4.9 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 0.1 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.6 ts.. 129 ortg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic


MJ is superior across the board.. Remember, this is Jordan's most efficient stretch - it's nowhere near his best stretch.. He's had 40 ppg stretches, and also these:

Jordan's first 20 games of the Finals:


35.5 ppg.. 6.5 rpg.. 7.4 apg.. 51.2 fg.. 2.0 spg

(these 20 games include 3 rings, 3 fmvps, and a 3-0 lead with 4th fmvp on the way)


1986-1993 playoffs (107 games):


34.5 ppg.. 6.9 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 2.3 spg... 1.0 bpg.. 50.3 fg

[LoneyROY7]

MJ was a great player. But Curry is just on another level.

[3ball]

MJ was a great player. But Curry is just on another level.


:whatever:

True shooting by itself doesn't make a player better - MJ was superior across the board:


JORDAN 1991 (21 games): 32.8 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 6.1 apg.. 2.1 tov.. 2.7 spg.. 1.4 bpg.. 58.5 fg.. 63.5 ts.. 132 ortg
CURRY.. 2016 (21 games): 32.6 ppg.. 4.9 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 3.6 tov.. 2.3 spg.. 0.1 bpg.. 52.4 fg.. 70.6 ts.. 129 ortg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01/gamelog/1991/#440-460-sum:pgl_basic


Also, offensive rating (ORtg) is a better efficiency measure than true shooting because it measures points produced per possession, which includes assists and turnovers.. True shooting doesn't consider assist or turnovers, nor does it measure efficiency on a per possession basis.

[LoneyROY7]

Curry is just on another tier than Jordan.

[3ball]

Curry is just on another tier than Jordan.


Correct - a far lower tier.

Remember, Jordan's superior 21-game stretch (shown earlier) was Jordan's most efficient stretch - it's nowhere near his best stretch.. He's had 40 ppg stretches, and also these:


Jordan's first 20 games of the Finals:


35.5 ppg.. 6.5 rpg.. 7.4 apg.. 51.2 fg.. 2.0 spg

(these 20 games include 3 rings, 3 fmvps, and a 3-0 lead with 4th fmvp on the way)


1986-1993 playoffs (107 games):


34.5 ppg.. 6.9 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 2.3 spg... 1.0 bpg.. 50.3 fg

[hateraid]

Correct - a far lower tier.

Remember, Jordan's superior 21-game stretch (shown earlier) was Jordan's most efficient stretch - it's nowhere near his best stretch.. He's had 40 ppg stretches, and also these:


Jordan's first 20 games of the Finals:


35.5 ppg.. 6.5 rpg.. 7.4 apg.. 51.2 fg.. 2.0 spg

(these 20 games include 3 rings, 3 fmvps, and a 3-0 lead with 4th fmvp on the way)


1986-1993 playoffs (107 games):


34.5 ppg.. 6.9 rpg.. 7.1 apg.. 2.3 spg... 1.0 bpg.. 50.3 fg

And yet Curry is currently murk ing this stretch. Curry is just too good.

[3ball]

But offensive rating heavily favors ball dominant players (something Jordan was despite other claims that he played off the ball so much).


Offensive rating has nothing to do with ball-dominance.. And Curry is a POINT GUARD, who is far more ball-dominant than Jordan ever was.

Also, offensive rating a better efficiency measure than true shooting because it measures points produced per possession, which includes assists and turnovers.. True shooting doesn't consider assist or turnovers, nor does it measure efficiency on a per possession basis.





Meanwhile curry creates assists for teammates by just standing on the floor because of how defenses bend and stretch to assure he doesn't get open. I've seriously never seen anything like it.


What a bunch of ignorant 12-year old fan garbage.. No one in history (other than Wilt) commanded more defensive attention than Jordan... No one.

Let me know when Curry gets double-teamed 10+ times in a single quarter, AS A STANDARD (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210)... :rolleyes:

[1987_Lakers]

Ya, Curry is just on another level as a player. I'm not sure if Jordan would be a top 5 player in the league in today's NBA.

If it wasn't for Pippen....Jordan would be known as a healthy Tracy McGrady.

[LoneyROY7]

It's truly amazing to watch Curry play the best basketball the game has ever seen.

The game and the players just keep getting better.

[IGOTGAME]

It's truly amazing to watch Curry play the best basketball the game has ever seen.

The game and the players just keep getting better.

It's too the point where Magic has to pushed off the title of best point guard ever...it's Curry now. Best player ever is up to debate but prob Curry too.

[fragokota]

That TS% is ridiculous, MJ's doesn't even come close tbh.

[hateraid]

It's truly amazing to watch Curry play the best basketball the game has ever seen.

The game and the players just keep getting better.
So true. Curry is the single season best player I've ever seen. And I've been watching ball since the 80s

[tpols]

Stupidity is mindblowing, Jordan having the only unguardable shot in history outside of the Sky Hook and it was a jumpshot:facepalm

http://images.rapgenius.com/a166a4dcc909727f0a429ad67bd70faa.450x241x133.gif

curry makes 3s like Jordan makes midrange and 3 > 2.

[90sgoat]

curry makes 3s like Jordan makes midrange and 3 > 2.

Too bad he's useless at anything else.

[Straight_Ballin]

curry makes 3s like Jordan makes midrange and 3 > 2.

It doesn't matter. He can't even make an all defense 2nd team so until that happens, he's just a 1 way player. Magic is probably his ceiling but if he can take his defense to an elite level, then we have something to talk about. Best player in the game today, but that really isn't saying much given what we have to work with when you have 2/6 colluding beta's like Lebron complaining about how they don't have enough help who lose their FMVP to role players not once but twice.

[MiseryCityTexas]

People are comparing Curry to Jordan, and people are saying that the current Warriors can beat the 72-10 Bulls, but I'm not even sure if these current Warriors can beat the 74-75 Golden State Warriors. Rick Barry was just as good as Stephen Curry when he was in his absolute prime.

[Straight_Ballin]

People are comparing Curry to Jordan, and people are saying that the current Warriors can beat the 72-10 Bulls, but I'm not even sure if these current Warriors can beat the 74-75 Golden State Warriors. Rick Barry was just as good as Stephen Curry when he was in his absolute prime.

Forget Rick Barry, he still has to be even as good of a defender as Chris Mullin.

[1987_Lakers]

People are comparing Curry to Jordan, and people are saying that the current Warriors can beat the 72-10 Bulls, but I'm not even sure if these current Warriors can beat the 74-75 Golden State Warriors. Rick Barry was just as good as Stephen Curry when he was in his absolute prime.

Ya, that '75 Warriors team who went 48-34 in the weakest era in NBA History is beating this current Warriors squad that is setting records because of their dominance.:oldlol:

[bizil]

MJ on the Warriors WOULD STILL EQUAL RINGS!! And if peak MJ was in the L today, he would be the best player in the world! But at the same time, u can't expect MJ to dominate in the same fashion Curry does. MJ would dominate in a totally different way. But the WAY he would dominate wouldn't be as good of a fit for that offense. But make no mistake, in general MJ is the SUPERIOR PLAYER to Steph.

That offense is designed around a PG who has great shooting, handles, and dimes to dominate. Kind of like the Suns offense with Nash back in the day. So FOR THAT SYSTEM, I would rather have Curry in that spot. MJ can play the PG great as well, but for that system Steph is the better fit.

If the question was to replace MJ with Klay, then that's an easy decision. Bye Bye Klay!! But for my PG, I would rather have Curry over MJ. MJ is a natural SG anyway. And Livingston is too much of a dropoff from Curry. For example, I think MJ is the better player than Magic was. BUT for my PG, I would rather have Magic. It's the same in this case. MJ the better player. But for my PG and the system being ran, give me Steph.

[1987_Lakers]

Too bad he's useless at anything else.

MJ stans getting upset.:oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

That offense is designed around a PG who has great shooting, handles, and dimes to dominate. Kind of like the Suns offense with Nash back in the day. So FOR THAT SYSTEM, I would rather have Curry in that spot.

Thank you, it's amazing how people fail to see this.

Like I said, If you replace Curry with Jordan....MJ or Klay would probably be the SF, which means you have Iggy and Barnes who are both small forwards off the bench with one of them not getting enough minutes, and you have Livingston at starting PG. The team wouldn't be as balanced.

It would make no sense to replace Curry with Jordan, replacing Curry with Magic would have been a better thread.

[Straight_Ballin]

"Well he plays in a system that was designed around him" - no shit. Drop him and a prime MJ in different systems as PG and SG in these various systems and MJ will emerge as a far more SUPERIOR player than Curry. MJ is the superior all around GOAT and Curry has so many things to accomplish before any actual valid comparison can be made. :sleeping

[1987_Lakers]

"Well he plays in a system that was designed around him" - no shit. Drop him and a prime MJ in different systems as PG and SG in these various systems and MJ will emerge as a far more SUPERIOR player than Curry. MJ is the superior all around GOAT and Curry has so many things to accomplish before any actual valid comparison can be made. :sleeping

Why even respond to this thread if you know Jordan is the GOAT and Curry has a long way to go? You obviously feel threatened by Curry.

[Cali Syndicate]

Too bad he's useless at anything else.

Too bad you don't even watch the warriors, that much is obvious.

[Cali Syndicate]

MJ stans getting upset.:oldlol:

Insecurity runs thick in that crew. It's not like the consensus here is that curry will go down as the goat, obviously it gonna take more than one or two strong seasons for that contebtion, but if curry can keep this up, it will go down as one of the greatest regular seasons ever. Imagine if they break the 96 bulls team record too!

It's either ish overreacts or doesn't know how to appreciate. Can't even tell anymore with all the bs sarcasm too

[bizil]

Once again, people on this site OFTEN CONFUSE GOAT status with peak-better player status. Steph is TOO YOUNG in his career to be a top 10 GOAT PG. BUT peak or better player wise, I think Steph IS a top 10 PG of all time. I think Westbrook is as well. THE FACT they have revolutionized the PG position AND ARE SO DOMINANT lends credence to that.

When u are SO DOMINANT like those two, they JUMP THE CHARTS quicker than most. AND ONCE AGAIN, I'm talking better player or peak status. I'm not talking about GOAT status.

There is ALSO a difference between the better player AND better fit for a system. PLUS we also have to keep in mind that Curry and MJ are two totally different players. Who play two different positions. It's hard to compare a 6'3 PG who can play SG to a 6'6 freakish athlete who can play or defend PG, SG, and SF at great levels.

So when u look at all these factors, it should EASY to differentiate GOAT status from peak-better player status. And ALSO who could be the better fit for a particular system.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

they're 23 - (-1)

[IGOTGAME]

Jordan on the Warriors would ruin the ball movement and the Warriors are left with no point guard, not to mention the Warriors already have a legit 2 guard in Klay Thompson, so there is no need for Jordan on this team.

oh really??

[hateraid]

Jordan had lower time of possession than Curry - he held the ball less, which means he would enhance ball movement.

There's never been a better off-ball player than Jordan:


https://media.giphy.com/media/Erx5BCUlFuzuM/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/FQAyoyJTSk6fC/giphy.gif

I live how this dude takes sample sized images that favor his opinion. No, there wouldn't be as much movement.

[greymatter]

oh really??

Yes, really.

Dubs lose with Jordan running the point. Your PG couldn't hit 3's to save his life (career 28.9% 3pt shooter from the original 3 pt-line) and had inferior court vision. Cavs simply crowd the paint and go under the screen every time (like GS did with Lebron) and dare Jordan to make 3s or long 2s.

Replace Thompson or Barnes OTOH, Cavs would have gotten swept.

[IGOTGAME]

Yes, really.

Dubs lose with Jordan running the point. Your PG couldn't hit 3's to save his life (career 28.9% 3pt shooter from the original 3 pt-line) and had inferior court vision. Cavs simply crowd the paint and go under the screen every time (like GS did with Lebron) and dare Jordan to make 3s or long 2s.

Replace Thompson or Barnes OTOH, Cavs would have gotten swept.

this can't be a serious post

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2015/jkrR_v.gif


Warriors would lose worse with Jordan replacing Curry


Guys like Klay couldn't hit the broadside of a barn because the Cavs defenders were on them too close.

But Jordan would space the floor and get guys open MORE than Curry - when a dangerous rim attacker is on the floor, ALL defenders must cheat off their man (see Isiah Thomas above), which leaves 3-point shooters and other teammates more open than otherwise.. This is basketball 101.

Otoh, 3-point shooters only cause a single defender to hug them on the perimeter, which doesn't do shit BY ITSELF - it takes the entire Warrior team shooting 3-pointers TOGETHER to provide floor-spacing.

Essentially, 3-point shooters need teammates to help them space the floor, whereas a single rim attacker frees up teammates for open shots all by themselves, by forcing the entire defense to cheat off their man.

Furthermore, dangerous rim attackers still provide value regardless of whether their shot is off because they cause all help defenders to cheat off their man, so teammates still benefit from being more open.

[deja vu]

One thing's for sure, Jordan wouldn't average 22 points in the Finals.

[Micku]

Yes, really.

Dubs lose with Jordan running the point. Your PG couldn't hit 3's to save his life (career 28.9% 3pt shooter from the original 3 pt-line) and had inferior court vision. Cavs simply crowd the paint and go under the screen every time (like GS did with Lebron) and dare Jordan to make 3s or long 2s.

Replace Thompson or Barnes OTOH, Cavs would have gotten swept.

Didn't MJ average like a triple double running the point while scoring 33 ppg? And prime MJ with the long two is his specialty. He averaged like 50% from the midrange in the 97 season. He was killer in the first 1peat too when he had more lift in his jumpshot. You don't leave Jordan open there. He's automatic from the midrange. Probably the best ever at it.

You can try to leave him open at the 3 and sag off. That's his biggest weakness, but he could get hot from there too.

And as other people said, MJ is one of the best off the ball movers. He's not a Curry or Ray Allen when it comes to catch and shoot at the 3, but he could definitely catch and shoot with the best of them.

You gott'a be crazy if you don't want prime MJ on your team doe and think they would still lose to an already great team like the Warriors. There's no way that they'll lose if you have the proper talent. Not only will he provide you one of the best perimeter defense in the history of the league, he'll also provide you with 30 ppg on efficient shooting. Him playing point will just increase the apg. What's wrong with that? The Warriors would find themselves more open and MJ could provide even more scoring than Curry.

And have you seen MJ passing skills tho? It's pretty underrated. He ain't no Magic, LeBron or Bird...but he's pretty damn good.

With that said tho, the Warriors would have to change their offense to fit Jordan's style. They are two different players.