Here we go again. LA director of Islamic Relations says US is to blame for terrorism

[HitandRun Reggie]

The CAIR-LA Director then placed partial blame on the United States and the west at-large, saying,

[Nick Young]

Pure Newspeak. Is this 1984, LA director of Islamic Relations?:confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

He went on to say the U.S. supports dictators and repressive regimes in the Middle East and elsewhere, citing Egypt as an example. He argued that these policies “push people over to the edge.”



what a piece of shit. Egypt under Mubarak was 100 times better than it is now :facepalm Egypt is basically ISIS Training School now.

Mubarak was not perfect, but he took a hardline stance against fundamentalist and terrorist nutcases.

Same with Assad.

I'm disappointed at the Obama administration turning against Assad. Syria under Assad was a tolerant and moderate Muslim nation.

[longtime lurker]

[QUOTE=HitandRun Reggie]The CAIR-LA Director then placed partial blame on the United States and the west at-large, saying,

[Nick Young]

Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

Pew Research (2014): 47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam". 1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt. 1 in 5 Muslims in the 'moderate' countries of Turkey and Malaysia.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

The Sun (2015: Following Nov. 2015 attacks in Paris, 1 in 4 young Muslims in Britain (and 1 in 5 overall) said they sympathize with those who fight for ISIS.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6758207/1-in-5-British-Muslims-have-sympathy-for-jihadis-in-poll.html

The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree).
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150612-CSP-Polling-Company-Nationwide-Online-Survey-of-Muslims-Topline-Poll-Data.pdf

Pew Research (2007): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (27% can

[UK2K]

How is he wrong?
It's your fault you got carjacked.

See, if you didn't drive such a nice car in such a bad area, people wouldn't be angry at you for 'showing off'. Really, had you been driving a 97 Geo Tracker, your odds of getting car jacked would go down immensely. Maybe you shouldn't show off your nice car so much, and you wouldn't have gotten it stolen.

If you didn't have such a nice house, it wouldn't get robbed.

If your wife wasn't so hot, she wouldn't have been raped.

If your skin had been white, we wouldn't have jumped you.

It's your fault.

You're an idiot.

[Nick Young]

It's your fault you got carjacked.

See, if you didn't drive such a nice car in such a bad area, people wouldn't be angry at you for 'showing off'. Really, had you been driving a 97 Geo Tracker, your odds of getting car jacked would go down immensely. Maybe you shouldn't show off your nice car so much, and you wouldn't have gotten it stolen.

If you didn't have such a nice house, it wouldn't get robbed.

If your wife wasn't so hot, she wouldn't have been raped.

If your skin had been white, we wouldn't have jumped you.

It's your fault.

You're an idiot.
Or, to put this in a way that PC retards will understand, the LA Director of Islamic Relations is victim blaming.

[falc39]

Right, lets sit here and pretend that US foreign policy hasn't been a complete disaster this whole time and hasn't contributed to the mess that is now occuring in those countries. Sure, his timing for saying what he said isn't great, but it's the truth.

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=HitandRun Reggie]The CAIR-LA Director then placed partial blame on the United States and the west at-large, saying,

[HitandRun Reggie]

How is he wrong?


Right, lets sit here and pretend that US foreign policy hasn't been a complete disaster this whole time and hasn't contributed to the mess that is now occuring in those countries. Sure, his timing for saying what he said isn't great, but it's the truth.

So basically you are saying that we shouldn't allow any Muslim immigrants into the US because our policies may turn them or their children against us and THAT would be our fault right?

[BigNBAfan]

Eh, deport his ass back where he came from. I doubt the sandmonkeys he trains really give a fck

[Nick Young]

This man has never told a lie in his life. Every one of the hysterical grannies here are shaking in their panties over ISIS... when ISIS didn't even exist before we completely destabilized Iraq and the Middle East with our pointless and destructive excursions.


ISIS didn't exist, but fundamentalist Islamic terrorism murder cults existed LONG before the US or Europe ever messed with that region.


ALSO-I hate US interference in the middle east as much as you do, but you can't say it's pointless. I don't think you realize how lucky we are as Americans in terms of the low cost we're paying for gasoline.


In the UK for example, as well as all of Europe as far as I know, the people there are paying more for a liter of gasoline than we are for a gallon.



Yes, I think it's wrong to MURDER PEOPLE and cause instability in these regions in the name of oil, but at the same time, it is false to say that you and the rest of Americans aren't benefiting from these wars.


Does that justify US intervention the middle east? IMO-hell no.


Just saiyan, the American people, and American industries are benefiting from it.

[UK2K]

Why can't he just say...

"Individuals are using the teachings of our holy book in the wrong manner intentionally to do their evil biddings."

Why can't he say that. It also the truth. So why doesn't he say that. That's what happened here. The husband was a US citizen, born here, working a $70k government job while his brother served in the Navy. What policy do we have to make a perfectly normal, successful American citizen want to slaughter the same people who threwant his wife a baby shower in the name of Islam?

Which policy caused that?

[Nick Young]

Why can't he just say...

"Individuals are using the teachings of our holy book in the wrong manner intentionally to do their evil biddings."

Why can't he say that. It also the truth. So why doesn't he say that. That's what happened here. The husband was a US citizen, born here, working a $70k government job while his brother served in the Navy. What policy do we have to make a perfectly normal, successful American citizen want to slaughter the same people who threwant his wife a baby shower in the name of Islam?

Which policy caused that?
We are all clearly to blame bro. Islam is a peaceful religion, built on peace and tolerance!

[dude77]

Why can't he just say...

"Individuals are using the teachings of our holy book in the wrong manner intentionally to do their evil biddings."

Why can't he say that. It also the truth. So why doesn't he say that. That's what happened here. The husband was a US citizen, born here, working a $70k government job while his brother served in the Navy. What policy do we have to make a perfectly normal, successful American citizen want to slaughter the same people who threwant his wife a baby shower in the name of Islam?

Which policy caused that?

excellent point .. of course :crickets: to the fggts in this thread defending the cair statement .. the very first thing they should have said was the above and show some compassion for the victims .. instead, no word or condemnation of the perps here .. just deflection and a rant about the U.S. .. these people need to be stamped the fk out .. there's no place for this shit here

[NumberSix]

So Director of Islamic Relations says the truth? I've seen right wing posters on here say the same thing. Keep in mind this is a high level of deflecting but there's a deeper root to the problem other than Islam=bad mmmkay
Why is Islamists do attacks in Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands?


More importantly, why don't they do them in Japan. The answer to that is truly the answer to the entire problem.

[oh the horror]

The United States government was just minding its own business as it does throughout its history and everyone else wants to blow us up for no reason whatsoever because they hate our way of life and freedom isn't free and these colors don't run.



'Murica



Let's be honest (and I'm speaking only to the sane posters here) most of these dudes here will never cop to shit nor will they change course. They're dense and ignorant and everyone else to them that tries to point out a sane rational argument where you explore both sides of an argument is a Muslim loving terrorist sympathizer.


These guys here are a sprinkle of mentally ill and flat out soul sick.

[ShaqTwizzle]

The people controlling the US military are rich globalist bankers..
I wouldn't really call them American as they have no loyalties to our country and they certainly don't ask the American public what they desire... ever.

But yes its true they've caused incalculable damage to America and foreign Muslim countries.

Doesn't change the fact that the Islamic ideology is inherently evil, oppressive, backwards, violent and bigoted.
Doesn't change the fact that Muslim communities don't tend to integrate well in foreign countries (see Sweden).
Islam just isn't very compatible with anything non-Islam and that is exactly how it is designed to be.

I personally think people should stop trying to defend the ideology itself.
If a group of people were following a religion in your country that said its followers should kill all black people you wouldn't defend it.
The Quran says plenty of shit that is comparable or even worse and yet people defend it because its a so called "religion" etc... (its not a religion and has no real connection to god).

I never hate a Muslim but I do pity them.
The ones who live in the West and can use their inborn intelligence to break free of the brainwashing and break free of the ideology can definitly integrate and become great citizens that I would be glad to call my fellows but the sorry fact is a great many of them can't or don't and that isn't strange given how the ideology is setup to try its hardest to prevent such things from ever happening.

Look at all the Muslim majority countries across the world... even the rich ones.
How many are secular? How many aren't ruled by Islamic/religious law...? How many are free?
Zero... Zero...
:(


Here is an interesting video on the origins of Islam.
Worth a listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADoG-gu5Zk

[BoutPractice]

I think it's interesting to note that the United States is often accused (sometimes by the same people) of contributing to terrorism by:

1) actively propping up dictators in the Middle East (as in Egypt). In which case, the working theory is that dictators are a factor of instability.

2) actively working to overthrow dictators in the Middle East (as in Iraq, Libya, or some would say, Syria). In which case, the working theory is that the absence of a dictator is a factor of instability.

The US has also been accused of creating terrorism by 3) not doing anything in the Middle East (see some of the discourse surrounding ISIS's emergence in Iraq... or the US's failure to intervene more decisively in Syria).

So which is it?

I'm officially confused.

When will Middle Eastern countries start fixing their own mess instead of attributing everything that happens to them to foreign agents?

And when will Western countries admit that the Middle East is so screwed up that any policy (including inaction) is the wrong policy at this point, and it's just a matter of honestly trying to achieve the lesser of unspeakable evils?

[NumberSix]

I think it's interesting to note that the United States is often accused (sometimes by the same people) of contributing to terrorism by:

1) actively propping up dictators in the Middle East (as in Egypt). In which case, the working theory is that dictators are a factor of instability.

2) actively working to overthrow dictators in the Middle East (as in Iraq, Libya, or some would say, Syria). In which case, the working theory is that the absence of a dictator is a factor of instability.

The US has also been accused of creating terrorism by 3) not doing anything in the Middle East (see some of the discourse surrounding ISIS's emergence in Iraq... or the US's failure to intervene more decisively in Syria).

So which is it?

I'm officially confused.

When will Middle Eastern countries start fixing their own mess instead of attributing everything that happens to them to foreign agents?

And when will Western countries admit that the Middle East is so screwed up that any policy (including inaction) is the wrong policy at this point, and it's just a matter of honestly trying to achieve the lesser of unspeakable evils?
The Middle East isn't as ridiculous as some make it out to be. A lot of people there get it. If you watch middle eastern tv news shows, they openly talk about how backward the Middle East is. They're aren't unaware of this. Even on Saudi TV they say they're backward and rely on the west for everything. You can't view it purely from our own cultural lense.

[ALBballer]

Well he's right the United States is partly to blame. If roles were reversed and Muslim countries were invading North America, removing our democratically elected presidents in favor of suppressive regimes and so forth it wouldn't be out of the norm for people to be fed up and seek revenge on the Muslim countries.

Now the case could be made that America has interfered in South American and Asian countries with a similar foreign policy tactics to the Middle East and there aren't any South American or Asian terrorists that are reacting the same way these Islamist terrorists are which is a fair point. Islam does play a role in this because like most religions Islam is a cult (although IMO Islam is worst) and there are plenty of passages in the Quran that can be used to justify war. Add in American interference, high poverty rates and war torn countries etc and well there you go it's a recipe to set up the current climate we have today.

Nevermind the hypocrisy that America's biggest ally in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia ... the country that funds these Islamists and are some of the worst offenders of human rights.

[NumberSix]

Well he's right the United States is partly to blame. If roles were reversed and Muslim countries were invading North America, removing our democratically elected presidents in favor of suppressive regimes and so forth it wouldn't be out of the norm for people to be fed up and seek revenge on the Muslim countries.

Now the case could be made that America has interfered in South American and Asian countries with a similar foreign policy tactics to the Middle East and there aren't any South American or Asian terrorists that are reacting the same way these Islamist terrorists are which is a fair point. Islam does play a role in this because like most religions Islam is a cult (although IMO Islam is worst) and there are plenty of passages in the Quran that can be used to justify war. Add in American interference, high poverty rates and war torn countries etc and well there you go it's a recipe to set up the current climate we have today.

Nevermind the hypocrisy that America's biggest ally in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia ... the country that funds these Islamists and are some of the worst offenders of human rights.
No matter what America does, the Islamists will be like "how dare you!"

It's funny that they bitch about supporting dictators, but as soon as Saddam was killed, he was suddenly a "martyr".

You can't simultaneously be like "how dare you support these tyrants!" and "how dare you overthrow our leaders!". Often times referring to the exact same person.

At some point, we have to stop pretending. They don't call us "crusaders" for no reason. It pisses them off that all these Christian countries (and 1 Jewish) are more powerful than them. America being certainly the most powerful and probably the most Christian.

[ALBballer]

No matter what America does, the Islamists will be like "how dare you!"

It's funny that they bitch about supporting dictators, but as soon as Saddam was killed, he was suddenly a "martyr".

You can't simultaneously be like "how dare you support these tyrants!" and "how dare you overthrow our leaders!". Often times referring to the exact same person.

At some point, we have to stop pretending. They don't call us "crusaders" for no reason. It pisses them off that all these Christian countries (and 1 Jewish) are more powerful than them. America being certainly the most powerful and probably the most Christian.

There is some truth to what you right but I don't buy in the whole "they hate us because of our lifestyle and our Christian values and whatnot" because it may play a part but on the other hand it is only natural to a degree they would be anti-American when US has interfered in the region. Hell most of the world is anti-American to a degree for a similar reason. Attach that resentment with Islam and we only fuel the so called "Islamists" and further their goals.

In a hypothetical world where the United States and the West has never step foot in the Middle East do you think extremists would come to the United States and the West to incite these violent acts we have seen in the past 15 years? Probably not.

[ShaqTwizzle]

In a hypothetical world where the United States and the West has never step foot in the Middle East do you think extremists would come to the United States and the West to incite these violent acts we have seen in the past 15 years? Probably not.

In a hypothetical world the American public would have far more control over the decisions of their military.

I mean 9/11 wasn't even done by Iraqi's and yet we went in because... WMD's (made up) and Saddam (not our business).

The rabbit hole is very, very deep my friend.
The true reasons behind many things that happen on that scale are far different then the media would have the public believe.

[UK2K]

There is some truth to what you right but I don't buy in the whole "they hate us because of our lifestyle and our Christian values and whatnot" because it may play a part but on the other hand it is only natural to a degree they would be anti-American when US has interfered in the region. Hell most of the world is anti-American to a degree for a similar reason. Attach that resentment with Islam and we only fuel the so called "Islamists" and further their goals.

In a hypothetical world where the United States and the West has never step foot in the Middle East do you think extremists would come to the United States and the West to incite these violent acts we have seen in the past 15 years? Probably not.
Yes, I do.

The 'were doing this cause your interfering' is just an excuse. It's a recruiting tool. If they didn't hate us because we are the US, they would he working with us to build a better society. There are Muslims in the ME who don't hate us. There are factions there that support us, that work with us.

We are considered the 'free' world, and that doesn't sit right for those in the ME, knowing that the people you are trying to control want to be more like those other guys. So you make up an excuse, and instant recruitment tool.

You know what I'd do if I were them? I'd have several more of these attacks in the US, and Europe, and then when the borders are closed to refugees, you use THAT as an excuse to hate us and on and on and on and on.

That's a bullshit answer... cause you started it. You are meddling in Syria so me and my Pakistani wife are going to slaughter my office?

That's a weak answer, and shitty justification, and you actually believe it.

[NumberSix]

There is some truth to what you right but I don't buy in the whole "they hate us because of our lifestyle and our Christian values and whatnot" because it may play a part but on the other hand it is only natural to a degree they would be anti-American when US has interfered in the region. Hell most of the world is anti-American to a degree for a similar reason. Attach that resentment with Islam and we only fuel the so called "Islamists" and further their goals.

In a hypothetical world where the United States and the West has never step foot in the Middle East do you think extremists would come to the United States and the West to incite these violent acts we have seen in the past 15 years? Probably not.
Why do they do attacks in Denmark and the Netherlands?

Why don't Christians who live in Muslim countries do a bunch of terrorism? They're oppressed, aren't they?

[Dresta]

I think it's interesting to note that the United States is often accused (sometimes by the same people) of contributing to terrorism by:

1) actively propping up dictators in the Middle East (as in Egypt). In which case, the working theory is that dictators are a factor of instability.

2) actively working to overthrow dictators in the Middle East (as in Iraq, Libya, or some would say, Syria). In which case, the working theory is that the absence of a dictator is a factor of instability.

The US has also been accused of creating terrorism by 3) not doing anything in the Middle East (see some of the discourse surrounding ISIS's emergence in Iraq... or the US's failure to intervene more decisively in Syria).

So which is it?

I'm officially confused.

When will Middle Eastern countries start fixing their own mess instead of attributing everything that happens to them to foreign agents?

And when will Western countries admit that the Middle East is so screwed up that any policy (including inaction) is the wrong policy at this point, and it's just a matter of honestly trying to achieve the lesser of unspeakable evils?
I would say number 2 more than anything, largely because it directly ruins lives, and tends to turn these places into the anarchic societies in which terrorist activity thrives, and which acts as a magnet for potential jihadists.

(e.g. see how awful living in Baghdad was just after the US invasion - they gutted the government of everyone who knew how things were run, and the whole place fell into chaos and anarchy - and what do people do? They turn to their religious leaders for protection, which is somewhat understandable tbh).

[UK2K]

I would say number 2 more than anything, largely because it directly ruins lives, and tends to turn these places into the anarchic societies in which terrorist activity thrives, and which acts as a magnet for potential jihadists.

(e.g. see how awful living in Baghdad was just after the US invasion - they gutted the government of everyone who knew how things were run, and the whole place fell into chaos and anarchy - and what do people do? They turn to their religious leaders for protection, which is somewhat understandable tbh).
At first. From 08-13, civilian deaths in all of Iraq were relatively few. Then... you know.

[UK2K]

These are the same people crying it's disrespectful to show the females picture on tv without her face covering...

Why aren't liberals screaming for gender eauality?

Cause they are told to defend them.

[Dresta]

At first. From 08-13, civilian deaths in all of Iraq were relatively few. Then... you know.
Yeah, i know, things undoubtedly improved massively. But that initial mistake was probably irreparable unless we were willing to keep American troops in Iraq for like 30 years. And it was so idealistic and so stupid, to think we could just get rid of everyone who ran the country and expect some great democracy to grow out of the ruins like a kind of magic beanstalk.

Long-term imperial occupation was the only thing that could've really worked - and the American public doesn't have the stomach for such a long-term projects. You really needed a whole generation of stability if you wanted the place not to collapse in to sectarianism as soon as the Americans left.

[DonD13]

every US intervention left the countries in a bigger chaos than it was before

Iraq war directly created terrorism

[NumberSix]

Iraq war directly created terrorism
Was 9/11 before or after the Iraq war? Was 9/11 terrorism? Was 9/11 caused by the Iraq war?

[Trollsmasher]

muslims deflecting... what's new

they will never admit any fault - they are all fundamentalists, exegesis is not allowed in islam