A lot of people forget about Dirk's 05-06 run

[masonanddixon]

He played out of his mind and outplayed Duncan in his prime, with a supporting cast of Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Dampier, and Devin Harris and Stackhouse, with Adrian Griffin getting big minutes.

And the 50 point game against Phoenix.

Lot of casual fans forget about it.

[Kawhi]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2006-nba-western-conference-semifinals-mavericks-vs-spurs.html

He sure outplayed Duncan...

[masonanddixon]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2006-nba-western-conference-semifinals-mavericks-vs-spurs.html

He sure outplayed Duncan...

Hey who won the series?

[StephHamann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OmE3B-s8ow

[Kawhi]

Hey who won the series?
Winning series =/= outplaying. So Dirk outplayed Duncan because Manu did the unthinkable in game 6 and fouled? Weird logic, but okay.

[masonanddixon]

Winning series =/= outplaying. So Dirk outplayed Duncan because Manu did the unthinkable in game 6 and fouled? Weird logic, but okay.

You mean Game 7? Dallas was up 3-1. Oh and Dirk was doubled all series whereas Duncan was guarded straight up.

[plowking]

You mean Game 7? Dallas was up 3-1. Oh and Dirk was doubled all series whereas Duncan was guarded straight up.

Weakest and most recycled excuse ever on here.

The better player that year in Wade, outplayed him in the finals, just like he did when they met the second time.

[Kawhi]

You mean Game 7? Dallas was up 3-1. Oh and Dirk was doubled all series whereas Duncan was guarded straight up.
Game 7 yes, my bad. So without that foul, the Spurs would likely win that series and, going by your logic, Duncan would have outplayed Dirk? Aight.

[masonanddixon]

Weakest and most recycled excuse ever on here.

The better player that year in Wade, outplayed him in the finals, just like he did when they met the second time.

Haha Dirk beat the shit out of Wade in 10-11, especially in every 4th quarter.

Get the hell out of here.

[plowking]

Haha Dirk beat the shit out of Wade in 10-11, especially in every 4th quarter.

Get the hell out of here.

Wade was better in both finals.

[masonanddixon]

Game 7 yes, my bad. So without that foul, the Spurs would likely win that series and, going by your logic, Duncan would have outplayed Dirk? Aight.

No because Ginobli hit that three pointer right before. Thats what you get with Ginobli. He makes insane shots but he also commits insanely retarded fouls.

Also, Spurs only really had to gameplan for one guy, whereas Dallas had to gameplan for three guys all in their prime.

[masonanddixon]

Wade was better in both finals.

No he wasn't. He was single coveraged by Old Man Kidd and he choked away every single 4th quarter, including Game 6 when it got close and he dribbled it off his foot. Same shit in Game 5. He faded down the stretch every time.

05-06 was probably the greatest Finals performance ever but most real fans consider it tainted.

[plowking]

"single covered, single covered, single covered"...

Broken record over here.

[masonanddixon]

"single covered, single covered, single covered"...

Broken record over here.

Hey what happened in Game 2 of the 10-11 Finals?

Up 15...5 minutes left...how many buckets did gayo Wade make during that span?

And getting their asses beat at home on Game 6?

[dhsilv]

Dirk was amazing in that series. So was Duncan. Spurs lost and Mavs won. That series was so close any player doing anything extra for either team could swing things.


That was one of the best playoff series I've ever watched in my life. Lets just accept that it was great basketball.

As for Dirk vs Duncan...I gotta give it to dirk on the boards. He really stepped his game up in that aspect.

[feyki]

Winning series =/= outplaying. So Dirk outplayed Duncan because Manu did the unthinkable in game 6 and fouled? Weird logic, but okay.

Manu hit the clutch 3 before one possesion :facepalm . And Rim protection isn't Manu's role .

Duncan was better at that series . But Dirk was best at that playoffs .

Dirk's Spurs and Suns series are heroic .

[Kawhi]

Manu hit the clutch 3 before one possesion :facepalm
How is this even relevant to my point?

[DMAVS41]

It's not fair to say Dirk outplayed Duncan...when Duncan averaged 32 a game in that series.

It was close though...I'm not sure I'd give the edge to anyone really.

That is definitely one of the top 10 playoff series in my lifetime...not even from a fan standpoint...it was just an amazing series.

The reason why Dirk might deserve a little boost is that he was playing with a little bit of a worse team, an unproven team, and a coach that words can't even describe how much worse he was than Pop.

So beating the Spurs without HCA in the midst of their peak is super impressive.

Those Spurs lost 1 series in 3 years...and it was to the Mavs.

[feyki]

How is this even relevant to my point?

You said "it was Manu's fault" . If Manu hadn't played in that series , Mavs would swept Spurs .

[dhsilv]

It's not fair to say Dirk outplayed Duncan...when Duncan averaged 32 a game in that series.

It was close though...I'm not sure I'd give the edge to anyone really.

That is definitely one of the top 10 playoff series in my lifetime...not even from a fan standpoint...it was just an amazing series.

The reason why Dirk might deserve a little boost is that he was playing with a little bit of a worse team, an unproven team, and a coach that words can't even describe how much worse he was than Pop.

So beating the Spurs without HCA in the midst of their peak is super impressive.

Those Spurs lost 1 series in 3 years...and it was to the Mavs.

I know the sum of the parts aren't always equal to the whole but I'm looking that the mav's roster that year and man I love that team.

Terry Howard Stackhouse Harris Dampier Daniels Diop Van Horn and even Darrell Armstrong...

Don't get me wrong all 12 guys in the spurs that year are NBA fan level household names. Like really if you're an nba fan you know every guy on the spurs and their careers. But still that mav's group is pretty solid.

All that said I think in some ways that mav's team was constructed better. Two great rim protectors. A group of guys with scoring talent but who mostly were guys who were role players (Stackhouse is the highest ppg guy in that series career best, but he was so ok with coming off the bench). Harris was the perfect guard to go against Parker at that stage of his career.

I still think the spurs were both the better team and a better match for the heat that year, and Dirk gets all the credit in the world. That was also the year Duncan was fighting foot problems and was to date maybe his worse year since his rookie year and he still found the extra mile in the playoffs. So I don't want to down play dirk as he was insane but that was one really special playoff series. I'm not sure what you can conclude from it beyond, it was just great to be an nba fan that year.

[brain drain]

I know the sum of the parts aren't always equal to the whole but I'm looking that the mav's roster that year and man I love that team.

Terry Howard Stackhouse Harris Dampier Daniels Diop Van Horn and even Darrell Armstrong...

Don't get me wrong all 12 guys in the spurs that year are NBA fan level household names. Like really if you're an nba fan you know every guy on the spurs and their careers. But still that mav's group is pretty solid.

All that said I think in some ways that mav's team was constructed better. Two great rim protectors. A group of guys with scoring talent but who mostly were guys who were role players (Stackhouse is the highest ppg guy in that series career best, but he was so ok with coming off the bench). Harris was the perfect guard to go against Parker at that stage of his career.

I still think the spurs were both the better team and a better match for the heat that year, and Dirk gets all the credit in the world. That was also the year Duncan was fighting foot problems and was to date maybe his worse year since his rookie year and he still found the extra mile in the playoffs. So I don't want to down play dirk as he was insane but that was one really special playoff series. I'm not sure what you can conclude from it beyond, it was just great to be an nba fan that year.

Lol. That Dallas team was a lot worse than San Antonio. Duncan had Manu and Parker. Dirk had Josh Howard and Jason Terry. And after that, it didn't get better.

And before you mention Stackhouse again, that guy was doing 13ppg at a 40fg% that year. So that was Dirk's secret weapon? Lol.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Ppl still bring up Manus foul and ignore his clutch ass 3 to even put SA up by 3, in position to win that game literally a possession before

And Dirk was the best player in that series. It was close but he had more impact, drew more defensive attention, made more crucial baskets, made his teammates lives much easier on offense. He played solid defense too blocked a potential Duncan gamewinner in one of the earlier games, Timmy was getting torched whenever he tried to guard Dirk mano a mano

Tim had nice numbers but his imprint wasnt there like Dirk. Spurs still couldve won it in OT that last game but Tim went like 0-5 with a couple turnovers

[dhsilv]

Lol. That Dallas team was a lot worse than San Antonio. Duncan had Manu and Parker. Dirk had Josh Howard and Jason Terry. And after that, it didn't get better.

And before you mention Stackhouse again, that guy was doing 13ppg at a 40fg% that year. So that was Dirk's secret weapon? Lol.

So you ignore the shot blocking and rebounding topic? Or how harris who had a career playoff level performance?

I clearly and I mean CLEARLY said the spurs had a better roster. I however said I really like the construction of the mavs that year.

Can you maybe try and post something meaningful?

[DMAVS41]

I know the sum of the parts aren't always equal to the whole but I'm looking that the mav's roster that year and man I love that team.

Terry Howard Stackhouse Harris Dampier Daniels Diop Van Horn and even Darrell Armstrong...

Don't get me wrong all 12 guys in the spurs that year are NBA fan level household names. Like really if you're an nba fan you know every guy on the spurs and their careers. But still that mav's group is pretty solid.

All that said I think in some ways that mav's team was constructed better. Two great rim protectors. A group of guys with scoring talent but who mostly were guys who were role players (Stackhouse is the highest ppg guy in that series career best, but he was so ok with coming off the bench). Harris was the perfect guard to go against Parker at that stage of his career.

I still think the spurs were both the better team and a better match for the heat that year, and Dirk gets all the credit in the world. That was also the year Duncan was fighting foot problems and was to date maybe his worse year since his rookie year and he still found the extra mile in the playoffs. So I don't want to down play dirk as he was insane but that was one really special playoff series. I'm not sure what you can conclude from it beyond, it was just great to be an nba fan that year.


It certainly wasn't a bad team...

But I think the Damp/Diop combo was still lacking. Certainly better than what the Mavs usually had as a center combo, but those guys were hardly dominant on the glass and really had no offensive game to speak of.

As I touched on before, it's hard to describe how inept Avery was as a coach. Having Pop in a series vs a team having Avery is just a night and day difference.

The rest of the Mavs made sense, but they were still missing what almost every title team has....a legit 2nd all nba type player that can really impact the game.

Terry and Howard were nice, but you usually see championship teams have far better 2nd bananas than those type guys.

Still could have won the title, perhaps should have won the title (after they upset the Spurs), but it in my years watching the league...it just seems like at some point you almost always need that 2nd banana to be there consistently enough and do things that a guy like Terry just didn't consistently do in order to win.

But there are always exceptions to that rule...a couple bounces / calls go the Mavs way in the finals and they would have been exceptions to that rule twice within a handful of years..

Give that 06 Mavs team Ray Allen instead of Terry...then that it the type of team that usually wins. Maybe add another guy for depth...really that Mavs team only went 7 legit deep in the playoffs. Griffin was okay, but I'd want someone better than him as my 8th man...he's better suited to be more of an emergency 9th/10th man that a guy that is likely going to play every game

That team really had now backup pf...so Dirk had to play 40 plus a night to make it work

I'm not sure your point about Armstrong and really even Vanhorn...they were complete non factors in the 06 playoffs. I can't even remember Armstrong playing in the playoffs. I know Van Horn did, but he didn't play every game and was hurt a lot of the year iirc.

So yea...good team...with some players that make a lot of sense...but also a team with some clear issues from both the roster and coach

It's a shame the rules were so ****ed up that year...give Wade all that credit for taking advantage of them, but it just became legit impossible to stop perimeter guys that could handle and attack.

However, that speaks to another large weakness on that team...pretty piss poor perimeter defense


And I think, from a broad perspective, that 06 team kind of sums up most of the Cuban/Nellie Jr. Mavs.

They built good quality teams that were going to win 50 plus games (a lot of this credit goes to Dirk for making it work) around a superstar. Teams that played hard and the right way. But when you need that extra gear in the playoffs...and you are playing a team with Duncan/Manu/Parker...or even the Bibby/Webber/Peja Kings...or the Nash/Amare/Marion Suns...or the Paul/West/Peja/Tyson Hornets...etc.

You just need something better than Dirk/Terry/Howard with some decent role players and a shit coach. Or you need a team that makes more sense than injured Nash, old Finley, Jamison/Walker (WTF?????)

So yea...you want to win 55 games? Sure...good roster. Coach gets you to play hard night in night out. You want to win the title? Simply not good enough. Avery can't make adjustments in games and series like Pop or Phil or Riley or Larry...etc. And Terry simply wasn't a good enough player to be consistently relied upon let alone on offense to help carry a team...but being a negative defender hurts as well.

But I digress....they came in and turned around one of the worst franchises in all of sports and I will always be grateful that happened. But it could have been a much better run with a few smarter decisions along the way. Just like since 11. Could have tried to build a Spurs type team without chasing stars. Look how good Rick/Dirk make these teams. Almost upset the Spurs in 14...still going strong in 16 now. Just a shame this is the roster we have when it would have been so damn easy to get the right guys in here.

Watching Ariza just murder is last night....so glad we paid double for Parons who is just an objectively worse player and fits in much worse on our team. Those are the kind of moves that Mavs fans have been dealing with for a long time...and there is really no excuse for it....they should know by now.

[T_L_P]

You mean Game 7? Dallas was up 3-1. Oh and Dirk was doubled all series whereas Duncan was guarded straight up.

Duncan was being doubled too. Shit, when Manu hit that shot before he fouled Dirk Tim had three guys on him.

You're such a liar. :facepalm

That said, Dirk still did slightly outplay Duncan. But you saying a prime Tim Duncan was left with single coverage for a whole series is beyond stupid.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan was being doubled too. Shit, when Manu hit that shot before he fouled Dirk Tim had three guys on him.

You're such a liar. :facepalm

That said, Dirk still did slightly outplay Duncan. But you saying a prime Tim Duncan was left with single coverage for a whole series is beyond stupid.

This.

I'm assuming his actual point...is that Duncan saw a bit less double coverage in that series than normal. And it was for a variety of reasons.

One was that the Mavs finally had a group of bigs that in theory could guard him one on one in the post with Dirk, Damp, and Diop...lol...didn't work very well.

And the other was simply that it's better to give up 2's than 3's....at least Avery could do simple math.

But Duncan was fantastic offensively....it's just that series pretty much made his defensive presence not be felt. Those Mavs could really get going and it truly was a case of pick your poison when they did.

[JohnFreeman]

Dirk should have the 2006 ring, but Wade was just too dominant

[DMAVS41]

Dirk should have the 2006 ring, but Wade was just too dominant

Very true.

There aren't more than a handful of guards in NBA history that could have done what he did...hell, there really might be only 2 or 3.

Also, Riley did some things in that series with the pick and roll that basically made it impossible to stop them with the rules.

He made Avery look like the terrible coach he was the last 3.5 games of that series.

[JohnFreeman]

Very true.

There aren't more than a handful of guards in NBA history that could have done what he did...hell, there really might be only 2 or 3.

Also, Riley did some things in that series with the pick and roll that basically made it impossible to stop them with the rules.

He made Avery look like the terrible coach he was the last 3.5 games of that series.
People always say "d-Whistle" and the refs gave it to Miami, but if you watch the games, the Mavs had no answer for Wade and he did get fouled a lot.

[DMAVS41]

People always say "d-Whistle" and the refs gave it to Miami, but if you watch the games, the Mavs had no answer for Wade and he did get fouled a lot.

Oh yes. The rules just made it so hard though. My only huge complaint was game 5. I just thought the Mavs outplayed them. I just don't know what you are supposed to do if you can't breathe on a guy driving to the rim.

We tried to triple him the last play in OT after Dirk made the shot over Shaq to go up 1 with 9 seconds left iirc. Just kind of wasn't basketball at that point. Just kind of stupid.

Who knows, maybe Wade makes it anyway like he did in regulation to push it to OT...

Just tough to take because the winner of that game was clearly going to win the series at that point....and the Mavs had 2 great chances. People forget...Dirk made a shot to tie it in the last minute of regulation and Dirk found Damp for a dunk with 10 seconds left in regulation to go up 2...and then hit a shot down 1 over Shaq with 9 seconds left in OT. Nobody, other than Mavs fans, even remembers those plays....they should have gone down as signature moments for Dirk with a series win.

Not rigged or anything....just terrible rules that weren't really how basketball was intended to be played.

[JohnFreeman]

Oh yes. The rules just made it so hard though. My only huge complaint was game 5. I just thought the Mavs outplayed them. I just don't know what you are supposed to do if you can't breathe on a guy driving to the rim.

We tried to triple him the last play in OT after Dirk made the shot over Shaq to go up 1 with 9 seconds left iirc. Just kind of wasn't basketball at that point. Just kind of stupid.

Who knows, maybe Wade makes it anyway like he did in regulation to push it to OT...

Just tough to take because the winner of that game was clearly going to win the series at that point....and the Mavs had 2 great chances. People forget...Dirk made a shot to tie it in the last minute of regulation and Dirk found Damp for a dunk with 10 seconds left in regulation to go up 2...and then hit a shot down 1 over Shaq with 9 seconds left in OT. Nobody, other than Mavs fans, even remembers those plays....they should have gone down as signature moments for Dirk with a series win.

Not rigged or anything....just terrible rules that weren't really how basketball was intended to be played.
Yeah, I suppose refs will always make human errors. Wade was so damn clutch as well.

http://blogcdn.champssports.com/assets/2015/04/afZrGOu-Imgur.gif

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Ppl still bring up Manus foul and ignore his clutch ass 3 to even put SA up by 3, in position to win that game literally a possession before

And Dirk was the best player in that series. It was close but he had more impact, drew more defensive attention, made more crucial baskets, made his teammates lives much easier on offense. He played solid defense too blocked a potential Duncan gamewinner in one of the earlier games, Timmy was getting torched whenever he tried to guard Dirk mano a mano

Tim had nice numbers but his imprint wasnt there like Dirk. Spurs still couldve won it in OT that last game but Tim went like 0-5 with a couple turnovers

I don't even know why you'd bother posting in a Duncan thread and think anyone values your opinion or thinks it's objective.

:facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, I suppose refs will always make human errors. Wade was so damn clutch as well.

http://blogcdn.champssports.com/assets/2015/04/afZrGOu-Imgur.gif


That is the thing. I don't even think the refs made errors. I think the rules were just stupid.

Yes, Wade was super clutch as well, but that gif you just posted makes me laugh. Of course that is how you are going to defend him. You can't try to challenge the shot because they are going to call a foul based on how the games went in that series like 90% of the time regardless...

But it's not Wade's fault...that is for damn sure...he did things, even with those joke rules, only a few guys in history could have done

[JohnFreeman]

Yeah they could have called a charge on that play pretty easily

[Dresta]

Hey what happened in Game 2 of the 10-11 Finals?

Up 15...5 minutes left...how many buckets did gayo Wade make during that span?

And getting their asses beat at home on Game 6?
That'd be because of Lebron checked back into the game (after Wade had secured that 15 point lead), and proceeded to dominate the ball and attempt to stat pad, throwing the whole team off-rhythm (his defense was also embrarrsing).

By game six Wade was injured, but the series should already have been over by then, and would have been, if not for the god-awful sabotage/failure of Lebron James.

Why is this clown always unequivocally in the corner of every white guy in the league? Sad...

[ArbitraryWater]

The biggest moment playing in my mind of that finals isn't the Wade foul of game 5 but Terry not passing the final shot in game 6 to Dirk, who was open...

imagine the epicness of a finals saving game tying 3 at the BUZZER... even that Jerry West heave wasn't finals saving.

[DMAVS41]

The biggest moment playing in my mind of that finals isn't the Wade foul of game 5 but Terry not passing the final shot in game 6 to Dirk, who was open...

imagine the epicness of a finals saving game tying 3 at the BUZZER... even that Jerry West heave wasn't finals saving.

Terry lost his mind in that game.

Now, I know he got cold and that happens, but that game is exactly what I'm talking about.

Your 2nd option offensively can't ****ing take 25 shots in a finals elimination game and shoot 4 ft's only or whatever he did. I'm getting old now and can't remember specifically, but all I remember is yelling "attack" at the damn TV...

And ultimately that is why that team lost. It's 2nd guy wasn't good enough. He wasn't a dominant offensive player and he was a poor defender.

25 shots in the softest era rules wise in the ****ing history of the NBA for perimeter players....and the jackass only takes like 4 ft's...

Nevermind...just looked it up....****er took 0 FT's in that game.

25 shots, 16 points, no ft's....bad defense

Thanks Terry....:facepalm

[tpols]

Terry lost his mind in that game.

Now, I know he got cold and that happens, but that game is exactly what I'm talking about.

Your 2nd option offensively can't ****ing take 25 shots in a finals elimination game and shoot 4 ft's only or whatever he did. I'm getting old now and can't remember specifically, but all I remember is yelling "attack" at the damn TV...

And ultimately that is why that team lost. It's 2nd guy wasn't good enough. He wasn't a dominant offensive player and he was a poor defender.

25 shots in the softest era rules wise in the ****ing history of the NBA for perimeter players....and the jackass only takes like 4 ft's...

Nevermind...just looked it up....****er took 0 FT's in that game.

25 shots, 16 points, no ft's....bad defense

Thanks Terry....:facepalm

he more than made up for that in 2011 Finals elimination games

and yea dirk/mavs shpould have two rings, just got screwed.

[DMAVS41]

he more than made up for that in 2011 Finals elimination games

Exactly.

You are so right.

And that is often the difference between winning and losing.

Didn't see the late edit.

I don't know about "should" or "screwed"...the above agreeing with you was just about the Terry stuff.

[JohnFreeman]

How did the Mavs get screwed? Are people seeing things that I don't?

[ArbitraryWater]

How did the Mavs get screwed? Are people seeing things that I don't?

Rules or not, some of the calls were egregious, if they were 'intentional' really doesn't matter in the end, they were series swinging...

Just sad since that stuck in the back of players heads, and indirectly led to the 2007 breakdown... Mavericks looked the most dominant team that year, they had a swagger throughout the regular season, after opening night won all 3 games vs San Antonio..

They actually went 67-11 86% after the first 4 games, and 65-9 87% after the first 4 / before the last 4 (seeding sealed) :biggums:

[JohnFreeman]

I agree some of the calls were bs, but if you watch the Wade highlights specifically, he does get fouled quite a bit

[dhsilv]

Yeah they could have called a charge on that play pretty easily

The defender was never at anypoint set. You could potentially do it based on player control but wade was in control that whole time too...

The mavs were just not able to handle a guard like wade with the rules as they were called. It was a mess...

[dhsilv]

It certainly wasn't a bad team...

But I think the Damp/Diop combo was still lacking. Certainly better than what the Mavs usually had as a center combo, but those guys were hardly dominant on the glass and really had no offensive game to speak of.

As I touched on before, it's hard to describe how inept Avery was as a coach. Having Pop in a series vs a team having Avery is just a night and day difference.

The rest of the Mavs made sense, but they were still missing what almost every title team has....a legit 2nd all nba type player that can really impact the game.

Terry and Howard were nice, but you usually see championship teams have far better 2nd bananas than those type guys.

Still could have won the title, perhaps should have won the title (after they upset the Spurs), but it in my years watching the league...it just seems like at some point you almost always need that 2nd banana to be there consistently enough and do things that a guy like Terry just didn't consistently do in order to win.

But there are always exceptions to that rule...a couple bounces / calls go the Mavs way in the finals and they would have been exceptions to that rule twice within a handful of years..

Give that 06 Mavs team Ray Allen instead of Terry...then that it the type of team that usually wins. Maybe add another guy for depth...really that Mavs team only went 7 legit deep in the playoffs. Griffin was okay, but I'd want someone better than him as my 8th man...he's better suited to be more of an emergency 9th/10th man that a guy that is likely going to play every game

That team really had now backup pf...so Dirk had to play 40 plus a night to make it work

I'm not sure your point about Armstrong and really even Vanhorn...they were complete non factors in the 06 playoffs. I can't even remember Armstrong playing in the playoffs. I know Van Horn did, but he didn't play every game and was hurt a lot of the year iirc.

So yea...good team...with some players that make a lot of sense...but also a team with some clear issues from both the roster and coach

It's a shame the rules were so ****ed up that year...give Wade all that credit for taking advantage of them, but it just became legit impossible to stop perimeter guys that could handle and attack.

However, that speaks to another large weakness on that team...pretty piss poor perimeter defense


And I think, from a broad perspective, that 06 team kind of sums up most of the Cuban/Nellie Jr. Mavs.

They built good quality teams that were going to win 50 plus games (a lot of this credit goes to Dirk for making it work) around a superstar. Teams that played hard and the right way. But when you need that extra gear in the playoffs...and you are playing a team with Duncan/Manu/Parker...or even the Bibby/Webber/Peja Kings...or the Nash/Amare/Marion Suns...or the Paul/West/Peja/Tyson Hornets...etc.

You just need something better than Dirk/Terry/Howard with some decent role players and a shit coach. Or you need a team that makes more sense than injured Nash, old Finley, Jamison/Walker (WTF?????)

So yea...you want to win 55 games? Sure...good roster. Coach gets you to play hard night in night out. You want to win the title? Simply not good enough. Avery can't make adjustments in games and series like Pop or Phil or Riley or Larry...etc. And Terry simply wasn't a good enough player to be consistently relied upon let alone on offense to help carry a team...but being a negative defender hurts as well.

But I digress....they came in and turned around one of the worst franchises in all of sports and I will always be grateful that happened. But it could have been a much better run with a few smarter decisions along the way. Just like since 11. Could have tried to build a Spurs type team without chasing stars. Look how good Rick/Dirk make these teams. Almost upset the Spurs in 14...still going strong in 16 now. Just a shame this is the roster we have when it would have been so damn easy to get the right guys in here.

Watching Ariza just murder is last night....so glad we paid double for Parons who is just an objectively worse player and fits in much worse on our team. Those are the kind of moves that Mavs fans have been dealing with for a long time...and there is really no excuse for it....they should know by now.

Wow a lot of words. lol

look sure the mavs coulda used another and I'm not sure I have the words. Perhaps shot creator? Terry is every bit as good at scoring itself to be a second guy but he doesn't create. However that was kinda what worked best with dirk. Dirk was best with guys who could score off him and not without him. Maybe he'd have been better with a 80% kobe guy but I"m not sure.

Defensively they were lacking on at the wing positions which is what let wade kill them.

However they were made to beat that spurs team. Great bigs along with the perfect bench guy to harass parker.

I guess my point is dirk gets too much credit for that run as if he was the only guy involved, but he gets crap for the loss in the finals which is over stated too.

[Straight_Ballin]

Would it be nice for Dirk to have another ring? Sure.

But what matters is that Wade will always have one more ring over Lebron. Dirk winning would mean that Wade and Bron have the same # of rings, and that just doesn't sound right.

[ShawkFactory]

Would it be nice for Dirk to have another ring? Sure.

But what matters is that Wade will always have one more ring over Lebron. Dirk winning would mean that Wade and Bron have the same # of rings, and that just doesn't sound right.
what actually matters is that Dirk had an awesome playoff run

[DMAVS41]

Wow a lot of words. lol

look sure the mavs coulda used another and I'm not sure I have the words. Perhaps shot creator? Terry is every bit as good at scoring itself to be a second guy but he doesn't create. However that was kinda what worked best with dirk. Dirk was best with guys who could score off him and not without him. Maybe he'd have been better with a 80% kobe guy but I"m not sure.

Defensively they were lacking on at the wing positions which is what let wade kill them.

However they were made to beat that spurs team. Great bigs along with the perfect bench guy to harass parker.

I guess my point is dirk gets too much credit for that run as if he was the only guy involved, but he gets crap for the loss in the finals which is over stated too.

We didn't have great bigs outside of Dirk.

Again, Damp and Diop were not "great"....

And I'm not sure why you reference guys like Van Horn and Armstrong...they were not relevant. Like...were you watching games back then? Not that you had to or something, but it just seems odd that someone that watched the 06 Mavs playoff run would reference Van Horn and Armstrong like they mattered. It just seems odd.

Harris could bother Parker a bit...outside of him the perimeter defense was pretty bad.

I don't think it was a bad team...and I certainly don't think Dirk deserves all of the credit, but calling Damp/Diop "great bigs" and not talking about Avery just misses a lot of the issues with that team in my opinion

As for the Terry stuff....he needs to be the 3rd best player on a title winning team. You need a legit all nba type guy, almost always, as the 2nd best player. Terry was fine offensively...although pretty much all of it comes off of action the involves the entire team...but he didn't impact the game at all defensively. So he wasn't an elite offensive player by any means...and he's a negative defensively.

What do you mean...maybe they'd be better with a guy better than Terry? Of course they would have been better. Terry was a 19 ppg 52% TS player in the 06 playoffs that didn't defend or rebound. That just isn't good enough....especially that scoring efficiency getting gifted free shots by teams frequently because of the Dirk action. I'm not gonna say he's terrible because he obviously wasn't, but he's also not giving you nearly what you need out of your number 2 guy historically to win. Maybe they'd be better with a guy 80% as good as Kobe? Like really? Again...you put Ray Allen on that team and they probably cruise to the title. He was a clear cut better player than Terry and capable of better on ball defense. Would have been better with Rip Hamilton as well. I don't follow this logic...it just makes me think you didn't watch that team much.

Dirk was better with guys that could score off of him and not without him? What guards or centers or wings did he play with that could actually score without him past 04? Dirk/Nash/Finley/Van Exel....that is still probably the best Mavs team imo. All three of those guys could score without Dirk. What are you talking about?

Terry just isn't in the class of a Wade, Kobe, Shaq, Pierce, Pippen, Gasol, Drexler, Manu, McHale...etc. all the 2nd banana type guys (when Wade, Kobe, Shaq were 2nd bananas) it usually takes to win...and the rest of the team...from the coach to the players wasn't good enough to overcome missing such a key piece most title teams need

[Straight_Ballin]

what actually matters is that Dirk had an awesome playoff run

It's amazing how the game has evolved for fans to the point where they are happy about a player having a "good playoff run".

It used to be you weren't happy unless your player won the finals.

Doesn't take much to please the new current era fans of today, hence why 2/6 sounds good to them. :lol

Welcome to current life, where kids being on the losing team still gets them a trophy. It used to be trophy are for winners.

Pussification of America.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's amazing how the game has evolved for fans to the point where they are happy about a player having a "good playoff run".

It used to be you weren't happy unless your player won the finals.

Doesn't take much to please the new current era fans of today, hence why 2/6 sounds good to them. :lol

Welcome to current life, where kids being on the losing team still gets them a trophy. It used to be trophy are for winners.

Pussification of America.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/DJ_Expanium/Confused-Jacksonville-Jaguars-fan-in-stands_zpsc767fcbd.gif

[TomBrady]

We can't all mindlessly stan Michael Jordan.

[ShawkFactory]

It's amazing how the game has evolved for fans to the point where they are happy about a player having a "good playoff run".

It used to be you weren't happy unless your player won the finals.

Doesn't take much to please the new current era fans of today, hence why 2/6 sounds good to them. :lol

Welcome to current life, where kids being on the losing team still gets them a trophy. It used to be trophy are for winners.

Pussification of America.
It's amazing how someone seemingly in his 30s brings up Lebron in a thread not about him :confusedshrug:

This was an excellent playoff run where Dirk should have had another ring. Try to keep up.

[stalkerforlife]

Dirk is higher on my all time list than Bran.

Dirk is top 15 at WORST.

Dirk did it in a tougher conference with FAR LESS talent around him than Bran.

[pastis]

Dirk is higher on my all time list than Bran.

Dirk is top 15 at WORST.

Dirk did it in a tougher conference with FAR LESS talent around him than Bran.

thats def a thing you can reproach wade and lebron. it would have been very very interesting to know how these two players would have played in the wild west throughout their careers

[Dresta]

Rules or not, some of the calls were egregious, if they were 'intentional' really doesn't matter in the end, they were series swinging...

Just sad since that stuck in the back of players heads, and indirectly led to the 2007 breakdown... Mavericks looked the most dominant team that year, they had a swagger throughout the regular season, after opening night won all 3 games vs San Antonio..

They actually went 67-11 86% after the first 4 games, and 65-9 87% after the first 4 / before the last 4 (seeding sealed) :biggums:
Mavs were 2-0 up and up 13 points with 6 mins left in the fourth. They lost that lead with no dodgy calls, and (i think) only 2 fts - the Mavs have only themselves to blames; after such a failure, blaming the refs is truly pathetic; the Mavs were in reach, they froze, and Wade capitalised - simple as that.

Blaming the refs is just childish, and a sure sign of bitterness and envy - Dallas had more than enough chances to win that series - it was nearly handed to them on a platter, and they failed to cash in.

[Duderonomy]

Mavs were 2-0 up and up 13 points with 6 mins left in the fourth. They lost that lead with no dodgy calls, and (i think) only 2 fts - the Mavs have only themselves to blames; after such a failure, blaming the refs is truly pathetic; the Mavs were in reach, they froze, and Wade capitalised - simple as that.

Blaming the refs is just childish, and a sure sign of bitterness and envy - Dallas had more than enough chances to win that series - it was nearly handed to them on a platter, and they failed to cash in.exactly
http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz268/ianhatcher/tumblr_mh6uj4Tcmn1qz9muno1_400_zps8a6a9d90.gif

[DaOldLion]

Mavs were 2-0 up and up 13 points with 6 mins left in the fourth. They lost that lead with no dodgy calls, and (i think) only 2 fts - the Mavs have only themselves to blames; after such a failure, blaming the refs is truly pathetic; the Mavs were in reach, they froze, and Wade capitalised - simple as that.

Blaming the refs is just childish, and a sure sign of bitterness and envy - Dallas had more than enough chances to win that series - it was nearly handed to them on a platter, and they failed to cash in.


:applause: :applause:

[dhsilv]

We didn't have great bigs outside of Dirk.

Again, Damp and Diop were not "great"....

And I'm not sure why you reference guys like Van Horn and Armstrong...they were not relevant. Like...were you watching games back then? Not that you had to or something, but it just seems odd that someone that watched the 06 Mavs playoff run would reference Van Horn and Armstrong like they mattered. It just seems odd.

Harris could bother Parker a bit...outside of him the perimeter defense was pretty bad.

I don't think it was a bad team...and I certainly don't think Dirk deserves all of the credit, but calling Damp/Diop "great bigs" and not talking about Avery just misses a lot of the issues with that team in my opinion

As for the Terry stuff....he needs to be the 3rd best player on a title winning team. You need a legit all nba type guy, almost always, as the 2nd best player. Terry was fine offensively...although pretty much all of it comes off of action the involves the entire team...but he didn't impact the game at all defensively. So he wasn't an elite offensive player by any means...and he's a negative defensively.

What do you mean...maybe they'd be better with a guy better than Terry? Of course they would have been better. Terry was a 19 ppg 52% TS player in the 06 playoffs that didn't defend or rebound. That just isn't good enough....especially that scoring efficiency getting gifted free shots by teams frequently because of the Dirk action. I'm not gonna say he's terrible because he obviously wasn't, but he's also not giving you nearly what you need out of your number 2 guy historically to win. Maybe they'd be better with a guy 80% as good as Kobe? Like really? Again...you put Ray Allen on that team and they probably cruise to the title. He was a clear cut better player than Terry and capable of better on ball defense. Would have been better with Rip Hamilton as well. I don't follow this logic...it just makes me think you didn't watch that team much.

Dirk was better with guys that could score off of him and not without him? What guards or centers or wings did he play with that could actually score without him past 04? Dirk/Nash/Finley/Van Exel....that is still probably the best Mavs team imo. All three of those guys could score without Dirk. What are you talking about?

Terry just isn't in the class of a Wade, Kobe, Shaq, Pierce, Pippen, Gasol, Drexler, Manu, McHale...etc. all the 2nd banana type guys (when Wade, Kobe, Shaq were 2nd bananas) it usually takes to win...and the rest of the team...from the coach to the players wasn't good enough to overcome missing such a key piece most title teams need

I think that's a great big man combo to play against duncan. As for van horn and armstrong I just like those two guys, they always seemed like good lockerroom guys. But yeah they were non factors as I recall (that was 10 years ago).

I was agreeing with you that Terry isn't the ideal number two guy, but I feel like that team had some good depth and they were able to find points from that depth. I mean that teams kills the 96 bulls if we're going bench vs bench imo.

[dhsilv]

It's amazing how the game has evolved for fans to the point where they are happy about a player having a "good playoff run".

It used to be you weren't happy unless your player won the finals.

Doesn't take much to please the new current era fans of today, hence why 2/6 sounds good to them. :lol

Welcome to current life, where kids being on the losing team still gets them a trophy. It used to be trophy are for winners.

Pussification of America.

This is complete bull crap and you know it. Jerry west a guy who lost in the finals something like 6 times was called Mr Clutch and was the logo for the whole league and is to this day. It is the post jordan fans that have created this warped and jaded view that doesn't respect greatness.

[SexSymbol]

He played out of his mind and outplayed Duncan in his prime, with a supporting cast of Josh Howard, Jason Terry, Dampier, and Devin Harris and Stackhouse, with Adrian Griffin getting big minutes.

And the 50 point game against Phoenix.

Lot of casual fans forget about it.
That is a VERY good supporting cast

[FKAri]

It's amazing how the game has evolved for fans to the point where they are happy about a player having a "good playoff run".

It used to be you weren't happy unless your player won the finals.

Doesn't take much to please the new current era fans of today, hence why 2/6 sounds good to them. :lol

Welcome to current life, where kids being on the losing team still gets them a trophy. It used to be trophy are for winners.

Pussification of America.

This post is garbage

[Kawhi]

You said "it was Manu's fault" . If Manu hadn't played in that series , Mavs would swept Spurs .
I never said that. Learn to read.

[GrapeApe]

In regards to the 2011 finals, Dirk was better than Wade when it mattered. For as much as people trash Lebron for that series, Wade deserves his share of blame too. Dirk's clutch play was also a huge factor, and if he doesn't step up in the 4th quarter the way he did, the Heat win the series despite Lebron's sub-par performance. I consider Dirk to be the best player in that series, even though Wade's overall numbers were arguably better.

I do find it funny though that people still bring up the officiating in 2006 when the "rigged" nonsense has been thoroughly debunked time after time. If you want to blame the rules, fine, but keep in mind the rules were the same for everyone. Young Wade was arguably the most relentless rim attacker the game has ever seen. When you combine that with his next level quickness, explosion, and body control, it's nearly impossible not to foul him. He put the defense in a position where they would have to either commit a foul or let up a dunk or layup.

Look at what he did to the Pistons. They were an all-time great defense and they had no answer for him. They tried to defend without hacking him and he shot 62% from the field. People like to point to the finals, but the fact is he was tearing up elite defenses throughout the entire conference playoffs. He averaged 28/6/6 on 60%TS for the entire playoffs, so it's not like the finals was some kind of anomaly. Even the year before he averaged 27/7/6 on high efficiency.

[mlp]

I

I do find it funny though that people still bring up the officiating in 2006 when the "rigged" nonsense has been thoroughly debunked time after time. If you want to blame the rules, fine, but keep in mind the rules were the same for everyone. .

:biggums:

it was rigged as the Mavs didn't get the calls when Harris attacked the rim or when Posey and Haslem were allowed to molest Dirk out there, both should have fouled out by halftime
2 sets of rules on the court and that's why it was rigged

[GrapeApe]

:biggums:

it was rigged as the Mavs didn't get the calls when Harris attacked the rim or when Posey and Haslem were allowed to molest Dirk out there, both should have fouled out by halftime
2 sets of rules on the court and that's why it was rigged

Again, every foul (or no call) in that series has been broken down and analyzed repeatedly and thoroughly. Of course there were some bad calls, as is the case in every game and every playoff series. If the series was "rigged" and there were 2 sets of rules, why were the Heat trailing 2-0 in the series? Why were they trailing by 13 in the 4th quarter of game 3? Are you saying the officials were only instructed to start the rigging at that very moment? If so, why were the Mavs awarded FT's late in that game that could have iced it (and essentially the series)? Why would the officials have put Dallas at the line with a chance to ice the series if they were supposedly rigging it for the Heat? Pretty ironic if you're blaming the officiating for their loss.

[DMAVS41]

I think that's a great big man combo to play against duncan. As for van horn and armstrong I just like those two guys, they always seemed like good lockerroom guys. But yeah they were non factors as I recall (that was 10 years ago).

I was agreeing with you that Terry isn't the ideal number two guy, but I feel like that team had some good depth and they were able to find points from that depth. I mean that teams kills the 96 bulls if we're going bench vs bench imo.

Damp/Diop should never be considered a great combo. We just have different definitions of the word. That duo combined for 8 points and 12 rebounds per 43 minutes they averaged. In what world is that great? That's not even great for a single player....let alone a combo.

How are you defining bench? Just non starters?

Here is the Mavs team most nights in the playoffs (Devin started some, but not all games)

Starters:

Harris
Terry
Howard
Dirk
Diop

Bench:

Stack
Damp
Griffin

That's it....Van Horn and Armrstong were not relevant. Marquis played a little, but really didn't make much of an impact.

I'm just not sure you are thinking of the right team.

Good depth? How is that any different than literally any team ever? Your bench is Stackhouse, Damp, and Griffin? Like....what are you even talking about? To make matters worse, Stack shot very poorly in those playoffs.

That just isn't great depth. Yea, they probably had a better bench than the 96 Bulls...who happen to be one of the most top heavy teams ever, but even then...ugh...Stack, Damp, Griffin vs Kukoc, Kerr.....kind of in the same ballpark.

I just don't get these points at all. Like....good depth? Barely going 8 deep is not good depth...Griffin being your 8th man is not good depth.

Hell, I'm not even sure the Mavs depth was better than Zo, Posey, and Payton...it's probably close.

I really think you need to revisit your take on this team. Yes, it was a good team...a team that absolutely could make a run at the title. They could have definitely won it if Dirk had played better...or Terry had played better...or Stack had made some of his open shots....or the ball bounces a different way...or Wade misses a shot or isn't reffed in a way in game 5 that made him impossible to stop...etc.

I mean...I certainly don't think Dirk was particularly great in the finals. Thought he was pretty good...he played a terrible game 4, but everyone was pretty bad in that game. And when the entire defense is gearing to stop you...it'd be nice of Harris, Stack, and Josh didn't all score like ass in that series. All 3 of them were under 49% TS. So...yea could have won, but meh...just not a great supporting cast. That depth you keep talking about went missing in the finals and the supporting cast defense...especially on the perimeter was simply destroyed by Wade.

But, there is a reason why that team wasn't expected to get out of the 2nd round. There is a reason why Avery is no longer coaching NBA basketball. There is a reason why teams with Terry as their 2nd best player and Adrian Griffin as their 8th best player...that only go 8 deep...rarely win NBA titles.

[DMAVS41]

Again, every foul (or no call) in that series has been broken down and analyzed repeatedly and thoroughly. Of course there were some bad calls, as is the case in every game and every playoff series. If the series was "rigged" and there were 2 sets of rules, why were the Heat trailing 2-0 in the series? Why were they trailing by 13 in the 4th quarter of game 3? Are you saying the officials were only instructed to start the rigging at that very moment? If so, why were the Mavs awarded FT's late in that game that could have iced it (and essentially the series)? Why would the officials have put Dallas at the line with a chance to ice the series if they were supposedly rigging it for the Heat? Pretty ironic if you're blaming the officiating for their loss.

IT WAS NOT RIGGED.

Totally agree.

It was just Wade...he was able to take advantage of the stupid rules in a way not anyone on the Mavs could...certainly not our guards. Dirk shot tons of free throws as well...so it's really a non point.

However, it was just a product of the new rules. Dirk got to be bodied and pushed off his spots by Haslem especially a lot in that series...and there was just no way we could have done that to Wade without being called.

Again, not rigged...just a product of the rules...it was all about getting perimeter guys going and making them near impossible to stop.

It's not the reason the Mavs lost...the Mavs are to blame to losing...or Wade/Heat are to credit...

The rules were the rules...and they were followed. Just happened to be shit rules that helped one team more than the other based on the amazing abilities of Wade that even made it possible.

Luckily, we don't play by those rules anymore and the game is better off for it.

[Wade's Rings]

Who knows, maybe Wade makes it anyway like he did in regulation to push it to OT...

If they didn't foul Wade it would have been a make considering he was at the rim.


Just tough to take because the winner of that game was clearly going to win the series at that point....and the Mavs had 2 great chances. People forget...Dirk made a shot to tie it in the last minute of regulation and Dirk found Damp for a dunk with 10 seconds left in regulation to go up 2...and then hit a shot down 1 over Shaq with 9 seconds left in OT. Nobody, other than Mavs fans, even remembers those plays....they should have gone down as signature moments for Dirk with a series win.

I'm not a Mavs fan and I remember those plays vividly. People may have forgotten the makes but a lot of people forget that Dirk missed Free Throws in Game 3 to tie the Game with a couple of seconds left & had a turnover in the last minute of Game 6. IMO this is somewhat the opposite of 2011 when everybody remembers Wade's missed Free Throw & Turnover in Game 4 & turnover in Game 5 but forget his big shots/plays in Game 1, 3, and 5.


Not rigged or anything....just terrible rules that weren't really how basketball was intended to be played.

I know you said it's not rigged but I wanted to post this anyway. People get caught up in the fact Wade shot a lot of Free Throws in Games 5 & 6 and attribute that to the series being rigged. If it was rigged why would the Mavs have gone up 2-0? Why would they let the Heat go down 13 with 6:30 left in the 4th? Also, a lot of people must not have watched the Games seeing as Wade did get hacked on a lot of those plays or he drew them with pump fakes.

[Wade's Rings]

IT WAS NOT RIGGED.

Totally agree.

It was just Wade...he was able to take advantage of the stupid rules in a way not anyone on the Mavs could...certainly not our guards. Dirk shot tons of free throws as well...so it's really a non point.

However, it was just a product of the new rules. Dirk got to be bodied and pushed off his spots by Haslem especially a lot in that series...and there was just no way we could have done that to Wade without being called.

Again, not rigged...just a product of the rules...it was all about getting perimeter guys going and making them near impossible to stop.

It's not the reason the Mavs lost...the Mavs are to blame to losing...or Wade/Heat are to credit...

The rules were the rules...and they were followed. Just happened to be shit rules that helped one team more than the other based on the amazing abilities of Wade that even made it possible.

Luckily, we don't play by those rules anymore and the game is better off for it.

I find it funny how dudes are quick to bring up that series as rigged but this is overlooked. Dirk averaged 1 less FTA per Game than Wade during the '06 Playoffs. 57% of Wade's shots came from 10ft out, while 71% of Dirk's came from 10ft out. Yet Dirk only averaged 1 less FTA and 21 less Total Free Throws for the entire Playoffs (same amount of games played).

[plowking]

:biggums:

it was rigged as the Mavs didn't get the calls when Harris attacked the rim or when Posey and Haslem were allowed to molest Dirk out there, both should have fouled out by halftime
2 sets of rules on the court and that's why it was rigged

Actually they did. Go watch the start of game 3 and see the very first foul Antoine Walker gets called for. Didn't even touch Harris and the refs called the foul.

Completely different in terms of how the game was called.

[dhsilv]

Damp/Diop should never be considered a great combo. We just have different definitions of the word. That duo combined for 8 points and 12 rebounds per 43 minutes they averaged. In what world is that great? That's not even great for a single player....let alone a combo.

How are you defining bench? Just non starters?

Here is the Mavs team most nights in the playoffs (Devin started some, but not all games)

Starters:

Harris
Terry
Howard
Dirk
Diop

Bench:

Stack
Damp
Griffin

That's it....Van Horn and Armrstong were not relevant. Marquis played a little, but really didn't make much of an impact.

I'm just not sure you are thinking of the right team.

Good depth? How is that any different than literally any team ever? Your bench is Stackhouse, Damp, and Griffin? Like....what are you even talking about? To make matters worse, Stack shot very poorly in those playoffs.

That just isn't great depth. Yea, they probably had a better bench than the 96 Bulls...who happen to be one of the most top heavy teams ever, but even then...ugh...Stack, Damp, Griffin vs Kukoc, Kerr.....kind of in the same ballpark.

I just don't get these points at all. Like....good depth? Barely going 8 deep is not good depth...Griffin being your 8th man is not good depth.

Hell, I'm not even sure the Mavs depth was better than Zo, Posey, and Payton...it's probably close.

I really think you need to revisit your take on this team. Yes, it was a good team...a team that absolutely could make a run at the title. They could have definitely won it if Dirk had played better...or Terry had played better...or Stack had made some of his open shots....or the ball bounces a different way...or Wade misses a shot or isn't reffed in a way in game 5 that made him impossible to stop...etc.

I mean...I certainly don't think Dirk was particularly great in the finals. Thought he was pretty good...he played a terrible game 4, but everyone was pretty bad in that game. And when the entire defense is gearing to stop you...it'd be nice of Harris, Stack, and Josh didn't all score like ass in that series. All 3 of them were under 49% TS. So...yea could have won, but meh...just not a great supporting cast. That depth you keep talking about went missing in the finals and the supporting cast defense...especially on the perimeter was simply destroyed by Wade.

But, there is a reason why that team wasn't expected to get out of the 2nd round. There is a reason why Avery is no longer coaching NBA basketball. There is a reason why teams with Terry as their 2nd best player and Adrian Griffin as their 8th best player...that only go 8 deep...rarely win NBA titles.


Well, I'll leave it with I thought they were well suited to beat the spurs (which is the only matchup I've discussed in my review of their team).

[DMAVS41]

Well, I'll leave it with I thought they were well suited to beat the spurs (which is the only matchup I've discussed in my review of their team).

Sure, they had a 60 win team and prime Dirk. That is going to give you a chance against really good teams.

[DMAVS41]

If they didn't foul Wade it would have been a make considering he was at the rim.



I'm not a Mavs fan and I remember those plays vividly. People may have forgotten the makes but a lot of people forget that Dirk missed Free Throws in Game 3 to tie the Game with a couple of seconds left & had a turnover in the last minute of Game 6. IMO this is somewhat the opposite of 2011 when everybody remembers Wade's missed Free Throw & Turnover in Game 4 & turnover in Game 5 but forget his big shots/plays in Game 1, 3, and 5.



I know you said it's not rigged but I wanted to post this anyway. People get caught up in the fact Wade shot a lot of Free Throws in Games 5 & 6 and attribute that to the series being rigged. If it was rigged why would the Mavs have gone up 2-0? Why would they let the Heat go down 13 with 6:30 left in the 4th? Also, a lot of people must not have watched the Games seeing as Wade did get hacked on a lot of those plays or he drew them with pump fakes.


I think what you kind of ignore is how hard it is to guard a perimeter player with those rules. I agree that most of the fouls were actually fouls based on the rules, but it's just hard to guard a guy like Wade with any rules...let alone rules that basically make it to where you can't touch a perimeter player driving.

If I'm objectively analyzing that series...I simply thought the Heat got away with a lot more contact on Dirk than the Mavs got away with on Wade. However, that is exactly what the NBA wanted and what the rules were designed for. They didn't focus much on off ball holding and grabbing...they just wanted to make sure an on ball guard could do basically anything without being touched or there would be a foul call.

So it's not much of an issue. The Mavs didn't have a guard that could take advantage of the rules...again, that is an issue with the Mavs and not the Heat. You have to give Wade/Heat credit for having the player/team in place to really take advantage.

Also, the Mavs perimeter defense, outside of Harris, was really really bad to begin with. People forget that.

Despite all that...the Mavs had more than a few chances to win that series and didn't come through enough times.

Regardless, all I can say is thankfully we don't play by those stupid rules anymore and the game is so much more fun to watch now.

[StephHamann]

Dirk VS KG:

Dirk:

scoring,clutch gene, leading as the man, big *****, longevity, trusting in your franchise (not colluding)

KG:

colluding like a little bitch, embarrass yourself on national tv (everything is possible :facepalm ), cursing Melo , pick n roll defense

[Odinn]

Wow. OP loves Dirk so much. Nearly stan-level bs on the thread.

- Dirk didn't outplay Duncan. Duncan outplayed Dirk but Mavs supporting cast performed better. Also, it was Ginobili's mistake at the end of 48 min in game 7 that kept Mavs alive.
- Wade was better than Nowitzki in both finals they faced.
- Even though they do not look good on paper, Mavs players were playing great. You can credit Dirk for being versatile to build around about game plans. But suggesting the supporting cast playing like scrubs? Not true. At all.

Nowitzki is one of top 25 players ever to play the game. You can name in top 15 depending on weighted criteria. But OP is utter sh!t.

[DMAVS41]

Wow. OP loves Dirk so much. Nearly stan-level bs on the thread.

- Dirk didn't outplay Duncan. Duncan outplayed Dirk but Mavs supporting cast performed better. Also, it was Ginobili's mistake at the end of 48 min in game 7 that kept Mavs alive.
- Wade was better than Nowitzki in both finals they faced.
- Even though they do not look good on paper, Mavs players were playing great. You can credit Dirk for being versatile to build around about game plans. But suggesting the supporting cast playing like scrubs? Not true. At all.

Nowitzki is one of top 25 players ever to play the game. You can name in top 15 depending on weighted criteria. But OP is utter sh!t.

Agree with most of this.

Still not sure about the 11 Finals. In a vacuum....yes, Wade was better, but when you compare the level of defensive attention and having to be a part of pretty much everything for the offense...I'm not sure.

Wade was a distant 2nd in terms of focus for the Mavs in that series...kind of hard to compare considering the completely different roles they played.

Also, when the games got into crunch time...Dirk destroyed Wade

Not saying Dirk was for sure better, but I'm not sure I can go there with you so easily