This is why you can't compare Duncan and Kobe's longevity...

[stalkerforlife]

Duncan is sitting out tonight to rest.

Leonard sitting out to rest.

Manu is out to rest.

They're winning by 34 points.

Kobe had to drive himself into the ground carrying bums.

Kobe had the greatest 17th season of all time.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan is sitting out tonight to rest.

Leonard sitting out to rest.

Manu is out to rest.

They're winning by 34 points.

Kobe had to drive himself into the ground carrying bums.

Kobe had the greatest 17th season of all time.

:roll:

[Derka]

:oldlol:

[warriorfan]

Kobe never left his city

Kobe never let his team mates have sex with his mom

Kobe is Alpha

[Gus Hemmingway]

:lol :lol

[T_L_P]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers have a better W% without Kobe in the past few years than they do with him.

Also, even if we discount Kobe's last few years (which apparently don't count in your mind), the Lakers are 69-45 without Kobe for his career and the Spurs are 54-44 without Duncan (55-44 after tonight).

Looks like LA can do more without Bean than the Spurs can without Tim. Ha.

[mehyaM24]

op might be right.

duncan plays alongside 2 of the greatest international players, and they've been the key to the spurs' success since 2007 (at the very latest).

and GOAT popovich? :eek:

i've never seen a player so weak on offense be touted for his longevity like duncan has. his fans also tried giving him full credit aka "alpha dog" status for the last spurs championship. what a joke. :oldlol:

[DaOldLion]

I'm pretty sure the Lakers have a better W% without Kobe in the past few years than they do with him.

Also, even if we discount Kobe's last few years (which apparently don't count in your mind), the Lakers are 69-45 without Kobe for his career and the Spurs are 54-44 without Duncan (55-44 after tonight).

Looks like LA can do more without Bean than the Spurs can without Tim. Ha.

I'm pretty sure he missed the entire 2014 season and played 37 games last year and the Lakers were lottery teams both years

so what the kind of argument is that :oldlol: :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm pretty sure he missed the entire 2014 season and played 37 games last year and the Lakers were lottery teams both years

so what the kind of argument is that :oldlol: :oldlol:

Huh? How are those years relevant? They were trash with or without him, in fact, they had a positive record in 2014, Kobe returned, they went 2-6, and Kobe said stuff like "its not like we were gangbusters before" :oldlol:

They were trash regardless.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

It's been that way for Duncan for at least the last 5 years. He's been able to work banker's hours, takes a vacation to the beach every other month sippin' on margaritas.....

[Donkey4trading]

OP definitely has a point

Duncan is averaging less than 10ppg, only paying 27 mpg and his team isn't missing a beat..

they've won 60+ games with him averaging 13/8.. The Spurs are elite with or without Duncan playing at an all star level

not sure why spurs fans get upset by that

[Gus Hemmingway]

How blessed are we being able to witness Duncan and Dirk playing deeper seasons into the playoffs each year, while Kobe stays missing it year after year playing shorter seasons (injury prone, many missed games, much less mileage)

[DaOldLion]

Huh? How are those years relevant? They were trash with or without him, in fact, they had a positive record in 2014, Kobe returned, they went 2-6, and Kobe said stuff like "its not like we were gangbusters before" :oldlol:

They were trash regardless.

thats the point, they were a lottery team regardless, and 36/37 year old coming off of season ending surgery each year wasn't going to change that..

so their w/l record with and without him those years are irrelevant

[DMAVS41]

The hypocrisy of Kobe fans is truly something to behold.

The same group that yells "5 rings" on repeat now wants circumstances to matter a lot here?

Also, on what ****ing planet is Shaq for 8 years and very good supporting casts with Gasol for another 4 years....carrying scrubs?

With Phil Jackson coaching.

So...Kobe fans...then you admit Dirk's longevity blows Kobe's out of the water...right?

Because Dirk played with way less help and way worse coaching than Kobe...so we have to give Dirk a huge boost in comparison to Kobe...right?

[SCdac]

Dude, Kobe "sat out" the last 3 post-seasons... and the Spurs are playing the worst team in the league (Philly is what 1-21?)

[DMAVS41]

Dude, Kobe "sat out" the last 3 post-seasons... and the Spurs are playing the worst team in the league (Philly is what 1-21?)

This times a million...

:applause:

[DaOldLion]

The hypocrisy of Kobe fans is truly something to behold.

The same group that yells "5 rings" on repeat now wants circumstances to matter a lot here?

Also, on what ****ing planet is Shaq for 8 years and very good supporting casts with Gasol for another 4 years....carrying scrubs?

With Phil Jackson coaching.

So...Kobe fans...then you admit Dirk's longevity blows Kobe's out of the water...right?

Because Dirk played with way less help and way worse coaching than Kobe...so we have to give Dirk a huge boost in comparison to Kobe...right?

geez dude before you bust a nut typing the novels that you always bust out for Kobe threads (almost every single Kobe thread) take a minute to realize that OP is pretty obviously talking about the end of the 2013 season when Kobe was playing close to 40 mpg carrying his team into the playoffs

take your Dirk vs Kobe nonsense somewhere else, nobody cares

[Jameerthefear]

I'm pretty sure he missed the entire 2014 season and played 37 games last year and the Lakers were lottery teams both years

so what the kind of argument is that :oldlol: :oldlol:
What?


What? That team ****ing sucked Kobe or not you moron.

[mehyaM24]

The hypocrisy of Kobe fans is truly something to behold.

The same group that yells "5 rings" on repeat now wants circumstances to matter a lot here?

Also, on what ****ing planet is Shaq for 8 years and very good supporting casts with Gasol for another 4 years....carrying scrubs?

With Phil Jackson coaching.

So...Kobe fans...then you admit Dirk's longevity blows Kobe's out of the water...right?

Because Dirk played with way less help and way worse coaching than Kobe...so we have to give Dirk a huge boost in comparison to Kobe...right?

i'm not a kobe fan or anything (he's a cancerous tumor)

BUT lol @ duncan's "longevity". on offense he is shit, and barely plays these days. 27mpg? those are starter minutes?

duncan fans need to stop giving him all the credit for his teams' success. its a ****ing joke how overrated this bronze-winning stiff has become.

[DMAVS41]

geez dude before you bust a nut typing the novels that you always bust out for Kobe threads (almost every single Kobe thread) take a minute to realize that OP is pretty obviously talking about the end of the 2013 season when Kobe was playing close to 40 mpg carrying his team into the playoffs

take your Dirk vs Kobe nonsense somewhere else, nobody cares

you don't boil down longevity to one season playing with Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol while you complain about carrying scrubs

The fact that you morons think the 13 Lakers sucked outside of Kobe is yet another reason why Kobe fans are the dumbest fan base by far

[buddha]

nobody actually thinks Duncan is a better player than Kobe.

[Gus Hemmingway]

LOL @ Kobe carrying Dwight, Gasol, Nash, Metta

[DMAVS41]

i'm not a kobe fan or anything (he's a cancerous tumor)

BUT lol @ duncan's "longevity". on offense he is shit, and he barely plays these days. 27mpg? those are starter minutes?

duncan fans need to stop giving him all the credit for his teams' success. its a ****ing joke how overrated this bronze-winning stiff has become.

two sides of the ball...playing legit dpoy type defense actually matters

you make it sound like he's done nothing offensively...I bet his numbers the last 5 years are something like 15/10/3....LOL...that is unreal good when you factor in his all time great defense

[T_L_P]

nobody actually thinks Duncan is a better player than Kobe.


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/14264125/who-was-better-kobe-bryant-tim-duncan

Even Californian's barely recognise Kobe (54/46).

[mehyaM24]

14ppg the last 3 seasons

omfg

GOAT offensive player!!!

duncan fans are the absolute worst. idiots :oldlol:

^^^ he's only playing 27 minutes a game, so of course his defensive stats will be skewed. they don't compare to other starters who bust their ass for 4 quarters.

[DMAVS41]

14ppg the last 3 seasons

omfg

GOAT offensive player!!!

duncan fans are the absolute worst. idiots :oldlol:

^^^ he's only playing 27 minutes a game, so of course his defensive stats will be skewed. they don't compare to other starters who bust their ass for 4 quarters.

are you trying to look stupid?

do you really think anyone has argued that Duncan has been a great offensive player lately?

[Donkey4trading]

you don't boil down longevity to one season playing with Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol while you complain about carrying scrubs

The fact that you morons think the 13 Lakers sucked outside of Kobe is yet another reason why Kobe fans are the dumbest fan base by far

why is this guy always so angry in Kobe threads?

this is what the Lakers looked like in the playoffs without Kobe

Dwight
Pau (who was playing out of system/beefed with coach)
Metta
Steve Blake
Chris Duhon
Earl Clark
Darius Morris
Jodie Meeks
Jordan Hill

without Kobe they got swept in the playoffs and received the worst loss in Lakers playoff history..
so obviously they really weren't that good without him


I'm not even a Kobe fan but to try and act like he was going ****ing off towards the end of 2013 and carrying that team up for the last half of the season up (especially the last month) is just a hater

[ShawkFactory]

Spurs are also playing one of the worst teams of all time, who would still be winless right now if it weren't for Kobe and the lakers.

[DaOldLion]

What?


What? That team ****ing sucked Kobe or not you moron.

Thanks for agreeing with me

that other poster tried to use their W/L without Kobe these past few years against him..

[DMAVS41]

why is this guy always so angry in Kobe threads?

this is what the Lakers looked like in the playoffs without Kobe

Dwight
Pau (who was playing out of system/beefed with coach)
Metta
Steve Blake
Chris Duhon
Earl Clark
Darius Morris
Jodie Meeks
Jordan Hill

without Kobe they got swept in the playoffs and received the worst loss in Lakers playoff history..
so obviously they really weren't that good without him


I'm not even a Kobe fan but to try and act like he was going ****ing off towards the end of 2013 and carrying that team up for the last half of the season up (especially the last month) is just a hater

Please don't straw man.

I never said that Kobe didn't play great in 13 (at least on offense he did)

I said that boiling down longevity to one season....while claiming he's carrying scrubs....is stupid...not only because there are many things about Kobe's first 9 years that were way easier than Duncan's, but because that 13 team was not scrubs

Sorry...they just weren't

Kobe made it look harder that in should have been...because he didn't even pretend to play defense and couldn't work with his teammates to play the best the team could play

If you can't see this obvious shit...it's on you

[T_L_P]

14ppg the last 3 seasons

omfg

GOAT offensive player!!!

duncan fans are the absolute worst. idiots :oldlol:

^^^ he's only playing 27 minutes a game, so of course his defensive stats will be skewed. they don't compare to other starters who bust their ass for 4 quarters.

He's 39. Only Kareem, Malone, Reggie, Jordan and Stockton played more MPG at that age.

And Duncan is the minute leader for the Spurs over the past three years. Yes, he's played more than Leonard (22-24) and Parker (31-33) over that time, despite being 37-39 years old (the ages that guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Magic, Bird, etc were either out of the league or playing 10 MPG on terrible teams).

[DaOldLion]

you don't boil down longevity to one season playing with Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol while you complain about carrying scrubs

The fact that you morons think the 13 Lakers sucked outside of Kobe is yet another reason why Kobe fans are the dumbest fan base by far

nobody is talking about longevity besides you :facepalm

OP said best 17th season, not best longevity from years 1 through retirement :facepalm

stop jumping off into tangents about stuff nobody is even discussing

and as another poster already told you, the Lakers got swept in embarrassing fashion in the playoffs without Kobe, so yeah, without him they were pretty bad. Not just because they got swept, but in the fashion in which they got swept. You could make an argument for that being one of if not the worst Lakers playoff team of all time, and the facts back that up as they had the worst series loss in Lakers playoff history

[DMAVS41]

nobody is talking about longevity besides you :facepalm

OP said best 17th season, not best longevity from years 1 through retirement :facepalm

stop jumping off into tangents about stuff nobody is even discussing

and as another poster already told you, the Lakers got swept in embarrassing fashion in the playoffs without Kobe, so yeah, without him they were pretty bad. Not just because they got swept, but in the fashion in which they got swept. You could make an argument for that being one of if not the worst Lakers playoff team of all time, and the facts back that up as they had the worst series loss in Lakers playoff history

You think you need to remind me what happened in 13?

Take a look at the thread title....why you can't compare Duncan and Kobe on longevity

I actually kind of agree....Duncan's longevity is amazing...while Kobe's is very much over-rated

Also, the year 17 thing is flawed....Kobe was a bench player his first 2 years in the league and didn't really put any wear and tear on his body...and he didn't play college

Acting like that was a similar first 2 years compared to a guy like Duncan is stupid

So, yes, it is all connected....

Just take the L Kobe Stans....it's been coming for a long long long time now

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/14264125/who-was-better-kobe-bryant-tim-duncan

Even Californian's barely recognise Kobe (54/46).
Now they are starting to use polls for their case :oldlol:

It wasn't that long ago when Kobe would win out on every poll that I ever saw.

[Magic 32]

Don't really care about longevity when we talk about 15-20 years of great basketball with both.

I care about 4-2

[Smoke117]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/14264125/who-was-better-kobe-bryant-tim-duncan

Even Californian's barely recognise Kobe (54/46).

Ha...I remember that...it made me proud my of fellow Californians. Kobe was never as good as his hype train made him out to be be. Though to be fair...I find Tim Duncan overrated too.

[ArbitraryWater]

Now they are starting to use polls for their case :oldlol:

It wasn't that long ago when Kobe would win out on every poll that I ever saw.

The consensus has turned in this comparison.. its pretty much Duncan by anyone now.

[mehyaM24]

9ppg & skewed defensive +/- stats because of minutes

GOAT longevity though.

ITT duncan fans are delusional as f*** :roll:

[Donkey4trading]

Please don't straw man.

I never said that Kobe didn't play great in 13 (at least on offense he did)

I said that boiling down longevity to one season....while claiming he's carrying scrubs....is stupid...not only because there are many things about Kobe's first 9 years that were way easier than Duncan's, but because that 13 team was not scrubs

Sorry...they just weren't

Kobe made it look harder that in should have been...because he didn't even pretend to play defense and couldn't work with his teammates to play the best the team could play

If you can't see this obvious shit...it's on you

except he wasn't boiling longevity down to one season, he said that he had the best 17th season of all time, that was the claim.. I don't know what part about that makes you think he's claiming Kobe has the GOAT longevity, only that he was the best in his 17th season than any other player, not 18th not 19th, just 17th.

you're just making shit up to argue about :oldlol:


but because that 13 team was not scrubs

Sorry...they just weren't

ok so then why did they have the worst series in Lakers playoff history? They were not a very good team outside of Kobe. Pau wasn't motivated because he was being forced to play in a system that didn't suit him. Dwight didn't play well and the only players on the entire team outside of Pau and Dwight to play all 4 games of the playoffs were Darius Morris, Earl Clarck and Antwan Jaminson..

so yeah.. on top of having the worst playoff series in Lakers history, the only players to play in every playoff game were Pau, Dwight, Earl Clark, Darius Morris and Jaminson..

[DMAVS41]

Now they are starting to use polls for their case :oldlol:

It wasn't that long ago when Kobe would win out on every poll that I ever saw.

False analogy

The claim wasn't that Kobe was better...it was that nobody thought Duncan was better

The poll proves this claim false

If he had posted a poll in response as proof Duncan was better....then you'd have a point

But, currently, your point doesn't hold any water

[Gus Hemmingway]

Don't really care about longevity when we talk about 15-20 years of great basketball with both.

I care about 4-2


5/6 >> 5/7

[DMAVS41]

except he wasn't boiling longevity down to one season, he said that he had the best 17th season of all time, that was the claim.. I don't know what part about that makes you think he's claiming Kobe has the GOAT longevity, only that he was the best in his 17th season than any other player, not 18th not 19th, just 17th.

you're just making shit up to argue about :oldlol:



ok so then why did they have the worst series in Lakers playoff history? They were not a very good team outside of Kobe. Pau wasn't motivated because he was being forced to play in a system that didn't suit him. Dwight didn't play well and the only players on the entire team outside of Pau and Dwight to play all 4 games of the playoffs were Darius Morris, Earl Clarck and Antwan Jaminson..

so yeah.. on top of having the worst playoff series in Lakers history, the only players to play in every playoff game were Pau, Dwight, Earl Clark, Darius Morris and Jaminson..


A few things;

1. It's all connected. You can't talk about year 17 without talking about other years as well. Also, he's not just talking about year 17....as he is arguing you can't compare the two on longevity

2. The 13 team was not scrubs....if the 13 team was a scrub supporting cast...then 85% of all teams in the league have scrub supporting casts

If that is your opinion....then great...you are just arguing semantics

[DMAVS41]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/329121/indiana-jones-vs-sword-o.gif

Duncan = Indiana Jones

Kobe = Idiot with a sword making it much harder than it has to be

Simple as that

[mehyaM24]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/06/18/article-1027544-047CD0540000044D-190_468x286.jpg

Duncan = snail

fixed

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan gets credit for shit he doesn't even do anymore, holy shit.

[mehyaM24]

Duncan gets credit for shit he doesn't even do anymore, holy shit.

guy is averaging 9ppg on offense this year, but we're supposed to act like he's "something" on offense.

lol

reminds me of that "TLP" fanboy only crediting duncan for the spurs' 2014 championship. WOAT.

[Smoke117]

guy is averaging 9ppg on offense this year, but we're supposed to act like he's "something" on offense.

reminds me of that tlp fanboy only crediting duncan for the spurs' 2014 championship. WOAT.

Who the hell is saying anything about his offense? He's one of the best defensive players in the league even at his age now. I don't think he was rver super dominant defensively...but he was great and his CONSISTENCY is ****ing amazing...I have to give him credit here. The fact that he is still making a top 5 impact defensively at this point in his career is absurd. He's probably in my top 10 defensive players of all time just because of this ridiculous longevity.

[Donkey4trading]

A few things;

1. It's all connected. You can't talk about year 17 without talking about other years as well. Also, he's not just talking about year 17....as he is arguing you can't compare the two on longevity

2. The 13 team was not scrubs....if the 13 team was a scrub supporting cast...then 85% of all teams in the league have scrub supporting casts

If that is your opinion....then great...you are just arguing semantics


1. It's all connected. You can't talk about year 17 without talking about other years as well. Also, he's not just talking about year 17....as he is arguing you can't compare the two on longevity

Kobe has made 3 straight finals twice in his career while playing 40+ per game each time, you don't think that puts more wear and tear on your body than winning a ring one year and then only playing in the first and second round the next few years? When looking at who was best in their 17th season its ridiculous to bring up shit from 99, that is dumb.



2. The 13 team was not scrubs....if the 13 team was a scrub supporting cast...then 85% of all teams in the league have scrub supporting casts

stop jumping around this :oldlol: The 13 Lakers were not a good team outside of Kobe, if they were then tell us DMAVS.. why did they receive the worst series loss in Lakers playoff history?? Why did they only have 5 players that played every single game? Why did Darius Morris, Andrew Goudelock, Steve Blake & Earl Clarc combine for a 7 starts that series?

That isn't a good team. Especially when you're best player is play completely out of position

inb4 you talk around giving an actual answer and spend the rest of your night repeating the same tire and played out "Kobe was never that good" garbage you constantly spit out here on ISH

[JT123]

why is this guy always so angry in Kobe threads?

this is what the Lakers looked like in the playoffs without Kobe

Dwight
Pau (who was playing out of system/beefed with coach)
Metta
Steve Blake
Chris Duhon
Earl Clark
Darius Morris
Jodie Meeks
Jordan Hill

without Kobe they got swept in the playoffs and received the worst loss in Lakers playoff history..
so obviously they really weren't that good without him


I'm not even a Kobe fan but to try and act like he was going ****ing off towards the end of 2013 and carrying that team up for the last half of the season up (especially the last month) is just a hater
For someone who keeps claiming they don't care about Kobe you sure seem to like typing out essays defending his honor and throwing his teammates under the bus. :lol :lol
Who's Kobe stan alt are you? Madsen perhaps

[mehyaM24]

Who the hell is saying anything about his offense? He's one of the best defensive players in the league even at his age now. I don't think he was rver super dominant defensively...but he was great and his CONSISTENCY is ****ing amazing...I have to give him credit here. The fact that he is still making a top 5 impact defensively at this point in his career is absurd. He's probably in my top 10 defensive players of all time just because of this ridiculous longevity.

*sigh* another poster overrating this guy.

he's nowhere close to making a top 5 defensive impact.

where are you getting that from? rapm stats? he plays 27ppg.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe has made 3 straight finals twice in his career while playing 40+ per game each time, you don't think that puts more wear and tear on your body than winning a ring one year and then only playing in the first and second round the next few years? When looking at who was best in their 17th season its ridiculous to bring up shit from 99, that is dumb.




stop jumping around this :oldlol: The 13 Lakers were not a good team outside of Kobe, if they were then tell us DMAVS.. why did they receive the worst series loss in Lakers playoff history?? Why did they only have 5 players that played every single game? Why did Darius Morris, Andrew Goudelock, Steve Blake & Earl Clarc combine for a 7 starts that series?

That isn't a good team. Especially when you're best player is play completely out of position

inb4 you talk around giving an actual answer and spend the rest of your night repeating the same tire and played out "Kobe was never that good" garbage you constantly spit out here on ISH

Bench player, no college, Shaq carrying the first option burden for 8 years...basically take 05 off

You don't think that matters

Okay....move along

Must be nice to be a Lakers fan...thinks the 13 Lakers were scrubs...

[Donkey4trading]

For someone who keeps claiming they don't care about Kobe you sure seem to like typing out essays defending his honor and throwing his teammates under the bus. :lol :lol
Who's Kobe stan alt are you? Madsen perhaps

I'm not throwing any of his teammates under the bus. I've already said that their best player (Pau) was playing out of position and was beefing with the coach so he wasn't able to play up to his levels.

Dwight was still adjusting from his earlier injuries and clearly wasn't motivated.

But yes, outside of that guys like Earl Clarck, Darius Morris, Goldylocks were trash. Three out of the five leaders in MP in the PO for the Lakers were freaking Darius Morris, MWP and Earl Clarc.. That just isn't a good team.

I'm tired of the intellectual dishonesty, yes the Lakers on opening day were a stacked team, but that shit fell apart. I wanted to see that team lose, but by the time half of the team was on IR it just didn't really matter anymore

[T_L_P]

*sigh* another poster overrating this guy.

he's nowhere close to making a top 5 defensive impact.

where are you getting that from? rapm stats? he plays 27ppg.

That's higher than Manu's career average, yet you have no problem propping him up (rightly so, he's one of the best ever).

Only 4 of the top 10 player in DRAPM play more than 30 MPG. Players are getting less and less minutes these days and Duncan is pushing 40. The fact still remains that he's one of the best defensive players out there. You saying he isn't because he plays 3 less MPG than someone else is terrible logic.

[DMAVS41]

I'm not throwing any of his teammates under the bus. I've already said that their best player (Pau) was playing out of position and was beefing with the coach so he wasn't able to play up to his levels.

Dwight was still adjusting from his earlier injuries and clearly wasn't motivated.

But yes, outside of that guys like Earl Clarck, Darius Morris, Goldylocks were trash. Three out of the five leaders in MP in the PO for the Lakers were freaking Darius Morris, MWP and Earl Clarc.. That just isn't a good team.

I'm tired of the intellectual dishonesty, yes the Lakers on opening day were a stacked team, but that shit fell apart. I wanted to see that team lose, but by the time half of the team was on IR it just didn't really matter anymore

The intellectual dishonesty is not realizing that while Howard wasn't elite...he was still a very good player.

[Donkey4trading]

Bench player, no college, Shaq carrying the first option burden for 8 years...basically take 05 off

You don't think that matters

Okay....move along

Must be nice to be a Lakers fan...thinks the 13 Lakers were scrubs...

The way you try to downplay a guy who was leading the team in FGA/and minutes played in both the regular season and playoffs for 2 straight championships is disgusting. You are just a hater. Shaq was obviously the best player on the team, but damn, Kobe wasn't just taking the years off :facepalm

and ok, if you think the 2013 playoff Lakers without Kobe were a good team, when they had the worst series defeat in Lakers playoff history were a good team then ok..

Minutes played leaders for that team look like this in the PO: Dwight, Pau, Darius Morris, MWP, Andre Goudelock, Earl Clarc... if you think that is a good team then well.. ok :oldlol:

[Donkey4trading]

The intellectual dishonesty is not realizing that while Howard wasn't elite...he was still a very good player.

Ok? There are plenty of teams that have a good player, but that doesn't mean that they are a good team. Pau Gasol was playing completely out of position and wasn't motivated because of that...

the rest of the team was rounded out by Morris, MWP, Earl Clarc and Antwan Jaminson..

[DMAVS41]

The way you try to downplay a guy who was leading the team in FGA/and minutes played in both the regular season and playoffs for 2 straight championships is disgusting. You are just a hater. Shaq was obviously the best player on the team, but damn, Kobe wasn't just taking the years off :facepalm

and ok, if you think the 2013 playoff Lakers without Kobe were a good team, when they had the worst series defeat in Lakers playoff history were a good team then ok..

Minutes played leaders for that team look like this in the PO: Dwight, Pau, Darius Morris, MWP, Andre Goudelock, Earl Clarc... if you think that is a good team then well.. ok :oldlol:

Stop the straw man

Good team? Never did I say that...said they weren't scrubs...which they weren't.

Also never said Kobe was taking years off with Shaq...I said Kobe kind of took 05 off. If you think it's all about minutes...why are you going on about Duncan? He's led his team in minutes over the periods you are talking about. If you don't think it's easier playing 2nd option next to Shaq than it is playing first option on your own...please don't respond

You are just a stan...sorry

[JT123]

The way you try to downplay a guy who was leading the team in FGA/and minutes played in both the regular season and playoffs for 2 straight championships is disgusting. You are just a hater. Shaq was obviously the best player on the team, but damn, Kobe wasn't just taking the years off :facepalm

and ok, if you think the 2013 playoff Lakers without Kobe were a good team, when they had the worst series defeat in Lakers playoff history were a good team then ok..

Minutes played leaders for that team look like this in the PO: Dwight, Pau, Darius Morris, MWP, Andre Goudelock, Earl Clarc... if you think that is a good team then well.. ok :oldlol:
Quit trying to bring this up like it means anything. HALF THE ROSTER was hurt during the playoffs, so of course they had to play guys who had no business playing. :facepalm
Trying to act like the team they had in the playoffs is the same team they would have been all season sans Kobe is retard logic of the highest order

[DMAVS41]

Ok? There are plenty of teams that have a good player, but that doesn't mean that they are a good team. Pau Gasol was playing completely out of position and wasn't motivated because of that...

the rest of the team was rounded out by Morris, MWP, Earl Clarc and Antwan Jaminson..

Where did I say they were some world beating team without Kobe?

I said they weren't a scrub supporting cast.

So...were they a scrub supporting cast or not?

[Smoke117]

*sigh* another poster overrating this guy.

he's nowhere close to making a top 5 defensive impact.

where are you getting that from? rapm stats? he plays 27ppg.

You don't know anything.

[mehyaM24]

That's higher than Manu's career average, yet you have no problem propping him up (rightly so, he's one of the best ever).

Only 4 of the top 10 player in DRAPM play more than 30 MPG. Players are getting less and less minutes these days and Duncan is pushing 40. The fact still remains that he's one of the best defensive players out there. You saying he isn't because he plays 3 less MPG than someone else is terrible logic.

that's because manu came off the bench, and sacrificed his role. duncan was a starter. great comparison though.

as far as RPM goes, the top 10 (which duncan is in currently) all have roughly 10 minutes a game more on him. that is enough to deem any opinions supported from that stat, faulty.

we're still early and there's a lot of noise with that metric. i'll give duncan credit if he stays top 10 for the ENTIRE season.

[JT123]

Where did I say they were some world beating team without Kobe?

I said they weren't a scrub supporting cast.

So...were they a scrub supporting cast or not?
Of course they were. Kobe making the playoffs with Howard, Gasol, Metta, Meeks, and Jamison was nothing short of a miracle. :bowdown: :lol

[mehyaM24]

You don't know anything.

nice response. groundbreaking stuff.

[HOoopCityJones]

Stop the straw man

Good team? Never did I say that...said they weren't scrubs...which they weren't.

Also never said Kobe was taking years off with Shaq...I said Kobe kind of took 05 off. If you think it's all about minutes...why are you going on about Duncan? He's led his team in minutes over the periods you are talking about. If you don't think it's easier playing 2nd option next to Shaq than it is playing first option on your own...please don't respond

You are just a stan...sorry

Again, are you honestly saying the likes of Darius Morris, Andre Goudelock, Earl Clark and Chris Duhon who were all getting heavy starter minutes, weren't scrubs? Even MWP had his worst season that year.

Why are you so full of shit when it comes to Kobe?

[DMAVS41]

that's because manu came off the bench, and sacrificed his role. duncan was a starter. great comparison though.

as far as RPM goes, the top 10 (which duncan is in currently) all have roughly 10 minutes a game more on him. that is enough to deem any opinions supported from that stat, faulty.

we're still early and there's a lot of noise with that metric. i'll give duncan credit if he stays top 10 for the ENTIRE season.

Okay.

So do you give him credit for finishing 9th in 2014? Because it seems like you aren't giving him much credit for that.

He finished 13th last year as well.

So what gives?

[Donkey4trading]

Stop the straw man

Good team? Never did I say that...said they weren't scrubs...which they weren't.

Also never said Kobe was taking years off with Shaq...I said Kobe kind of took 05 off. If you think it's all about minutes...why are you going on about Duncan? He's led his team in minutes over the periods you are talking about. If you don't think it's easier playing 2nd option next to Shaq than it is playing first option on your own...please don't respond

You are just a stan...sorry

You said they didn't suck, if they weren't a good team and if they didn't suck.. what are they.. stop playing stupid :facepalm

and you clearly were trying to downplay Kobe by saying Shaq carried the first option burden for 8 years (which technically isn't even true) when talking about his longevity and listing reasons to downplay it..



If you think it's all about minutes...why are you going on about Duncan? He's led his team in minutes over the periods you are talking about.

This is the type of intellectually dishonest shit that makes talking to you pointless...

Danny Green led the Spurs in total minutes played in 2015 regular season, Kawhi led them in MPG, in 2013 Danny Green again led them in total minutes and Kawhi in MPG. Kawhi also led them in MGP and MP in the PO..So 2/3 last years that isn't even true.. :facepalm

Duncan leads the team by playing 29 mpg.. that isn't the same as playing 39 like Kobe did in 13 and basically has every year since 99 (excluding 12 when he played 34 mpg)

[DMAVS41]

Again, are you honestly saying the likes of Darius Morris, Andre Goudelock, Earl Clark and Chris Duhon who were all getting heavy starter minutes, weren't scrubs? Even MWP had his worst season that year.

Why are you so full of shit when it comes to Kobe?

Howard played 76 games.

They were only -.5 points per 100 without Kobe all year.

Just weren't a scrub supporting cast.

[mehyaM24]

Okay.

So do you give him credit for finishing 9th in 2014? Because it seems like you aren't giving him much credit for that.

He finished 13th last year as well.

So what gives?

yes. but not "goat longevity" credit.

he gets kudos for being a solid role player given the minutes.

you know, instead of getting ALL the credit for that years championship...like all his fans gave him?

[Donkey4trading]

Where did I say they were some world beating team without Kobe?

I said they weren't a scrub supporting cast.

So...were they a scrub supporting cast or not?

a team who had 3 out of the 5 total minutes leaders being Darius Morris, MWP and Goudelock.. yeah that isn't a very good team and is mostly comprised of scrubs

[rmt]

Duncan is 39 years old. He doesn't need to exert himself offensively as Leonard needs to step up and take more of the offensive reigns and LMA has to be integrated into the offense. Duncan is playing low minutes and concentrating on defense. His DRtg is 91, his PER is 19.3, DWS 1.5, DBPM is 5.7, VORP, is 1.1 and Spurs are the best defensive team in the league.

He is conserving his energy for the playoffs which I'll remind you - just a few months ago:

17.9 pts 11.1 rebs 3.3 asst 1.3 stl 1.4 blk 58.9%FG averaging 35.7 minutes (2nd on the team - a mere 0.1 mins less than the 23 year old Leonard).

One last Q&A with Gregg Popovich
Anything surprise you about the season?

“As far as players are concerned I don’t know if it’s quite a surprise but I continue to be amazed by Tim Duncan. He was our most consistent player in the playoffs, at 39. He needed a little more help and I feel badly he didn’t get it. It wasn’t for lack of trying.
“To watch him is pretty spectacular, in itself. Even our players shake their heads at his performance at both ends of the floor. He wants it badly and does it the right way. It’s not about bells and whistles and grunting and dancing and doing commercials and all of that stuff. He just does it quietly and that’s why we feel badly when we don’t get it done for him.”

[DMAVS41]

You said they didn't suck, if they weren't a good team and if they didn't suck.. what are they.. stop playing stupid :facepalm

and you clearly were trying to downplay Kobe by saying Shaq carried the first option burden for 8 years (which technically isn't even true) when talking about his longevity and listing reasons to downplay it..




This is the type of intellectually dishonest shit that makes talking to you pointless...

Danny Green led the Spurs in total minutes played in 2015 regular season, Kawhi led them in MPG, in 2013 Danny Green again led them in total minutes and Kawhi in MPG. Kawhi also led them in MGP and MP in the PO..So 2/3 last years that isn't even true.. :facepalm

Duncan leads the team by playing 29 mpg.. that isn't the same as playing 39 like Kobe did in 13 and basically has every year since 99 (excluding 12 when he played 34 mpg)

Downplay what? It's just a fact...playing next to Shaq makes life easier. You think I'm being biased for saying this? Sorry...you are being biased by thinking anything of it.

It's just a ****ing fact.

You can't have it both ways. You can't cling to minutes next to Shaq and then turn around and claim Duncan's minutes don't count.

My god man...your entire argument is basically;

"nothing matters when it comes to Kobe's circumstances, but every little thing matters for Duncan"

Just accept it....Duncan >>>>>> Kobe on longevity

It's literally not an argument anymore.

[HOoopCityJones]

Howard played 76 games.

They were only -.5 points per 100 without Kobe all year.

Just weren't a scrub supporting cast.

What the fucc is that supposed to mean?

Anyone who watched that season saw Dwight couldn't lead that Team anywhere without Kobe. :oldlol:

That Team was done the minute Nash and Blake went down and Kobe had to be our primary ball handler.

[DMAVS41]

a team who had 3 out of the 5 total minutes leaders being Darius Morris, MWP and Goudelock.. yeah that isn't a very good team and is mostly comprised of scrubs

What are you talking about? Why would you be talking about the playoffs? Kobe didn't play in the playoffs.

Minute leaders for Lakers in 13 regular season:

Kobe
Howard
Metta
Meeks
Pau
Jamison
Nash
Clark
Blake
Duhon

Just stop. Please. Do you really not see how stupid you are being?

The claim is that Kobe had to carry scrubs to the playoffs, but you are using the playoff roster as the roster he carried, but this is false....he didn't play in the playoffs.

The above is the roster he "carried" to the playoffs....good lord...use your ****ing brain


Oh my god...they won 45 games....OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I<3NBA]

ofc you can't compare Kobe and Duncan's longevity

Duncan came into the league and was asked to carry the Spurs IMMEDIATELY

Kobe came into the league and ASKED TO BE CARRIED BY THE LAKERS (by throwing a tantrum and refusing to be drafted anywhere else)

Shaq then carried him from 1996 to 2004. the first season Shaq left, Kobe carried NOBODY, with LA missing the playoffs. Next season, LA went 45-37, arguably the first year Kobe did any carrying. Still, LA was eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs (with Phoenix coming back from a 3-1 deficit to win 4-3. Kobe choking masterfully). if that was how Kobe "carry," it was laughably weak. the next season, same story. LA went 42-40 and again, fell to the Suns in the 1st round. it was looking like without Shaq, Kobe was a first round virgin like TMac. But who cares? He was carrying those scrubs to the playoffs! :yaohappy:

on 2008, Pau Gasol arrived. and there, all the narrative changed. Stans screamed like idiots how Kobe won all those 2 rings BY HIMSELF :facepalm
never giving Pau any credit

it's also one of the reasons why these rabid stans hated Pau Gasol so much.

if you really think about it, Kobe realistically carried LA only for 3 years. all of those years being fantastic failures. one missed playoffs, 2 1st round exits. wow, good job carrying, Kobe! :yaohappy:

there's your hero for you stans. removing all the glitz and glam, you are presented with a sham.

[DMAVS41]

What the fucc is that supposed to mean?

Anyone who watched that season saw Dwight couldn't lead that Team anywhere without Kobe. :oldlol:

That Team was done the minute Nash and Blake went down and Kobe had to be our primary ball handler.

What kind of response is this?

Did I say they could be led somewhere without Kobe?

I simply said it wasn't a scrub supporting cast.

And all the evidence supports me. You idiots have to continue to change your arguments and use playoff data when making regular season arguments.

[JT123]

What are you talking about? Why would you be talking about the playoffs? Kobe didn't play in the playoffs.

Minute leaders for Lakers in 13 regular season:

Kobe
Howard
Metta
Meeks
Pau
Jamison
Nash
Clark
Blake
Duhon

Just stop. Please. Do you really not see how stupid you are being?

The claim is that Kobe had to carry scrubs to the playoffs, but you are using the playoff roster as the roster he carried, but this is false....he didn't play in the playoffs.

The above is the roster he "carried" to the playoffs....good lord...use your ****ing brain
Dmavs going IN on these Kobetards :lol :lol

[dhsilv]

OP definitely has a point

Duncan is averaging less than 10ppg, only paying 27 mpg and his team isn't missing a beat..

they've won 60+ games with him averaging 13/8.. The Spurs are elite with or without Duncan playing at an all star level

not sure why spurs fans get upset by that

When has Duncan not played at an all star LEVEL? Even this year he's one of the top 10 most impactful players on the court based on the real plus minus data. Hell just go watch how he bends the offensive plays on defense.

The spurs don't need him to score this year. Scoring is what 40% of the game? 30%?

[Gus Hemmingway]

Dmavs straight shitting on everyone in this thread :lol :lol

[Donkey4trading]

Downplay what? It's just a fact...playing next to Shaq makes life easier. You think I'm being biased for saying this? Sorry...you are being biased by thinking anything of it.

It's just a ****ing fact.

You can't have it both ways. You can't cling to minutes next to Shaq and then turn around and claim Duncan's minutes don't count.

My god man...your entire argument is basically;

"nothing matters when it comes to Kobe's circumstances, but every little thing matters for Duncan"

Just accept it....Duncan >>>>>> Kobe on longevity

It's literally not an argument anymore.

Nobody is claiming Duncan's minutes don't count :facepalm jesus you really like to make up bullshit so you can argue against non existent topics don't you?


You can't cling to minutes next to Shaq and then turn around and claim Duncan's minutes don't count.

bringing up the fact that Kobe was leading those Lakers in MPG for b2b championship runs isn't "clinging to minutes played with Shaq" you moron.. it's bringing up the fact that Kobe was the minutes leader for b2b championship teams TWICE in his career. something Duncan has never done

you completely ignore every circumstance surrounding Kobe, you refuse to address anything specifically and just speak in vague terms.

You bring up Shaq and how for some reason (EVEN THOUGH KOBE WAS LEADING THE TEAM IN MINUTES :oldlol: ) those minutes don't mean as much.. yet you don't bring up that Duncan has played with great players his entire career

your entire argument is "Kobe played with Shaq therfore his minutes played don't count as much"

You have nothing substantial to say, just the same old recycled bull shit, yeah we get it dude, Kobe sucks, Dirk is better, Kobe played wtih Shaq so nothing he's ever done matters. :oldlol: :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

What kind of response is this?

Did I say they could be led somewhere without Kobe?

I simply said it wasn't a scrub supporting cast.

And all the evidence supports me. You idiots have to continue to change your arguments and use playoff data when making regular season arguments.

You have yet to explain how Darrius Morris, Chris Duhon, Goudelock, and the corpse of Antwan Jamison playing major starting minutes is not a garbage cast? :biggums:

Like i said, you're full of shit.

[DMAVS41]

You have yet to explain how Darrius Morris, Chris Duhon, Goudelock, and the corpse of Antwan Jamison playing major starting minutes is not a garbage cast? :biggums:

Like i said, you're full of shit.

Major minutes? And I'm full of shit?

Darrius Morris....11th in minutes
Duhon....10th in minutes
Goudelock....16th in minutes
Jamison....6th in minutes

What the **** are you talking about?

[Donkey4trading]

You have yet to explain how Darrius Morris, Chris Duhon, Goudelock, and the corpse of Antwan Jamison playing major starting minutes is not a garbage cast? :biggums:

Like i said, you're full of shit.

he won't, he never actually answers anything directly. He'll just bring up something that nobody is saying and pretend like that is the new argument, Or you know somehow Shaq will get brought up again and Kobe's injury in 2013 doesn't matter because he played next to Shaq 12 years earlier or some weird shit like that.

You're talking to a guy who just a few weeks ago said Dirk was better than Kobe lmao he's a joke. No real basketball fan talks about players this negatively THIS much.

Noticed how you and I aren't even discrediting Duncan? We aren't saying stupid shit like "his minutes don't count because he has good players around him"

[DMAVS41]

Nobody is claiming Duncan's minutes don't count :facepalm jesus you really like to make up bullshit so you can argue against non existent topics don't you?



bringing up the fact that Kobe was leading those Lakers in MPG for b2b championship runs isn't "clinging to minutes played with Shaq" you moron.. it's bringing up the fact that Kobe was the minutes leader for b2b championship teams TWICE in his career. something Duncan has never done

you completely ignore every circumstance surrounding Kobe, you refuse to address anything specifically and just speak in vague terms.

You bring up Shaq and how for some reason (EVEN THOUGH KOBE WAS LEADING THE TEAM IN MINUTES :oldlol: ) those minutes don't mean as much.. yet you don't bring up that Duncan has played with great players his entire career

your entire argument is "Kobe played with Shaq therfore his minutes played don't count as much"

You have nothing substantial to say, just the same old recycled bull shit, yeah we get it dude, Kobe sucks, Dirk is better, Kobe played wtih Shaq so nothing he's ever done matters. :oldlol: :oldlol:


You have nothing new to say....Kobe had it so hard...what he did was extraordinary...blah blah blah

Yep...leading the 13 Lakers to a 42-36 record is just the most amazing thing ever....LOL

[Donkey4trading]

Major minutes? And I'm full of shit?

Darrius Morris....11th in minutes
Duhon....10th in minutes
Goudelock....16th in minutes
Jamison....6th in minutes

What the **** are you talking about?

HOLY SHIT, stop playing stupid :oldlol:

People are clearly talking about the playoffs here, ya know.. the only time they were without Kobe :facepalm

PO MP Leaders

Dwight
Pau
Morris
MWP
Earl Clarc
Goudelock
Jaminson
Blake

[DMAVS41]

he won't, he never actually answers anything directly. He'll just bring up something that nobody is saying and pretend like that is the new argument, Or you know somehow Shaq will get brought up again and Kobe's injury in 2013 doesn't matter because he played next to Shaq 12 years earlier or some weird shit like that.

You're talking to a guy who just a few weeks ago said Dirk was better than Kobe lmao he's a joke. No real basketball fan talks about players this negatively THIS much.

Noticed how you and I aren't even discrediting Duncan? We aren't saying stupid shit like "his minutes don't count because he has good players around him"

Major minutes? And I'm full of shit?

Darrius Morris....11th in minutes
Duhon....10th in minutes
Goudelock....16th in minutes
Jamison....6th in minutes

What the **** are you talking about?

Ether...now STFU

[DMAVS41]

HOLY SHIT, stop playing stupid :oldlol:

People are clearly talking about the playoffs here, ya know.. the only time they were without Kobe :facepalm

PO MP Leaders

Dwight
Pau
Morris
MWP
Earl Clarc
Goudelock
Jaminson
Blake


You can't be this dumb.

That isn't the team Kobe got to the playoffs you ****ing moron.

Playing stupid? No...my points actually make sense.

What relevance does the playoff team have when it looked nothing like the regular season team?

God damn...you can't be this ****ing dumb...like really.....people can't be this ****ing stupid.

[stalkerforlife]

DMAVS getting murdered...as usual. He loves the attention, though...even if it is masochistic in nature.

[Donkey4trading]

he won't, he never actually answers anything directly. He'll just bring up something that nobody is saying and pretend like that is the new argument,

called it


You have nothing new to say....Kobe had it so hard...what he did was extraordinary...blah blah blah

Yep...leading the 13 Lakers to a 42-36 record is just the most amazing thing ever....LOL

[JT123]

Dmavs straight shitting on everyone in this thread :lol :lol
It's hilarioius. :oldlol: Those 2 Kobe stans couldn't look like bigger morons if they tried. Claiming Kobe carried a garbage roster all season, yet using playoff numbers as their supposed evidence :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

called it

Major minutes? And I'm full of shit?

Darrius Morris....11th in minutes
Duhon....10th in minutes
Goudelock....16th in minutes
Jamison....6th in minutes

What the **** are you talking about?

Again...ether

You morons are so stupid that you can't figure out why comparing the playoff roster to the regular season roster is idiotic

Like really?

You guys can't grasp why that doesn't make sense?

Again...you can't be this stupid

[JT123]

You can't be this dumb.

That isn't the team Kobe got to the playoffs you ****ing moron.

Playing stupid? No...my points actually make sense.

What relevance does the playoff team have when it looked nothing like the regular season team?

God damn...you can't be this ****ing dumb...like really.....people can't be this ****ing stupid.
NEVER underestimate the stupidity of Kobetards bro. They are constantly topping themselves. Just ask the owner of this site :applause:

[Donkey4trading]

You can't be this dumb.

That isn't the team Kobe got to the playoffs you ****ing moron.

Playing stupid? No...my points actually make sense.

What relevance does the playoff team have when it looked nothing like the regular season team?

God damn...you can't be this ****ing dumb...like really.....people can't be this ****ing stupid.

damn dude calm down, again why are you so angry :oldlol: :oldlol:

their most used line up during 2013 was Nash/Kobe/MWP/Clarc/Dwight

Nash was visibly done, MWP wasn't good, Clarc lol and Dwight was pretty good as the season got better but never really fit in the system thanks to D'antoni

and they had absolute no bench, they were 28th in total bench points..

by the time April hit they were playing an 8 man rotation, in the Portland game he played 48 minutes.. THE ENTIRE GAME, Blake and Clarc were 2 of the starters that game..

in 4 out of the last 7 games Kobe played 47+ minutes.. Kobe was literally playing every single minute of every single game while averaging 31/7/8 on 58% TS.. he was carrying that team, who had an 8 man rotation, with Blake and Clarc being two of the starters and Gasol playing unmotivated and out of position..

[dhsilv]

You think you need to remind me what happened in 13?

Take a look at the thread title....why you can't compare Duncan and Kobe on longevity

I actually kind of agree....Duncan's longevity is amazing...while Kobe's is very much over-rated

Also, the year 17 thing is flawed....Kobe was a bench player his first 2 years in the league and didn't really put any wear and tear on his body...and he didn't play college

Acting like that was a similar first 2 years compared to a guy like Duncan is stupid

So, yes, it is all connected....

Just take the L Kobe Stans....it's been coming for a long long long time now

Kobe being a guard, I don't think he's overrated. I think some of the post here are possibly brain dead, but in general he's had all time great longevity for being a guard which is a harder position to play late into line due to the damage to joints and the greater distances they move over the course of a career.

Now comparing him to Duncan, we'll agree is a bit silly. What duncan did last year and is doing this year are truly special.

[DMAVS41]

NEVER underestimate the stupidity of Kobetards bro. They are constantly topping themselves. Just ask the owner of this site :applause:

Most under-rated absurd thing in this thread.

The repeated mentioning of a player that played 6 minutes the entire ****ing season as a major part of a supporting cast.

Goudelock played 1 game....6 minutes....and he's being listed as part of the supporting cast Kobe "dragged" to the playoffs

Like...I wouldn't respond if I thought they were trolling...they really are just this stupid

[dhsilv]

DMAVS getting murdered...as usual. He loves the attention, though...even if it is masochistic in nature.

Link? Normally he does what he's doing in this thread and makes people look stupid.

[Donkey4trading]

Most under-rated absurd thing in this thread.

The repeated mentioning of a player that played 6 minutes the entire ****ing season as a major part of a supporting cast.

Goudelock played 1 game....6 minutes....and he's being listed as part of the supporting cast Kobe "dragged" to the playoffs

Like...I wouldn't respond if I thought they were trolling...they really are just this stupid

no he's listed as the guy who got major minutes in the PO after Kobe went down, which just goes to show how awful their bench was when they lost a starter and replaced him with an D League player

[DMAVS41]

damn dude calm down, again why are you so angry :oldlol: :oldlol:

their most used line up during 2013 was Nash/Kobe/MWP/Clarc/Dwight

Nash was visibly done, MWP wasn't good, Clarc lol and Dwight was pretty good as the season got better but never really fit in the system thanks to D'antoni

and they had absolute no bench, they were 28th in total bench points..

by the time April hit they were playing an 8 man rotation, in the Portland game he played 48 minutes.. THE ENTIRE GAME, Blake and Clarc were 2 of the starters that game..

in 4 out of the last 7 games Kobe played 47+ minutes.. Kobe was literally playing every single minute of every single game while averaging 31/7/8 on 58% TS.. he was carrying that team, who had an 8 man rotation, with Blake and Clarc being two of the starters and Gasol playing unmotivated and out of position..


And again...that isn't a scrub supporting cast.

Kobe playing great (which he absolutely did) is not an argument that the supporting cast was a scrub cast

Notice how you continue to change the argument? It's really just a sign you can't defend your actual position.

[DMAVS41]

no he's listed as the guy who got major minutes in the PO after Kobe went down, which just goes to show how awful their bench was when they lost a starter and replaced him with an D League player

that doesn't show you anything...he was not relevant in the regular season...the team playing him in the playoffs means nothing

again, you have now had to shift the argument because your initial points don't make sense

this team was barely worse with Kobe off the floor all year...they were not scrubs

getting this team to a 42-36 record is simply not some historic accomplishment

just please stop

[Donkey4trading]

And again...that isn't a scrub supporting cast.

Kobe playing great (which he absolutely did) is not an argument that the supporting cast was a scrub cast

Notice how you continue to change the argument? It's really just a sign you can't defend your actual position.

Can you please response do an actual point, like actually counter something I'm saying instead of just inserting your opinion like its fact :oldlol: :oldlol:

please explain how they weren't a bad squad in April when they had an 8 man roation, 2 of the starters were Steve Blake and Earl Clarc, No Gasol, no Nash and having to rely on one player to play 48 minutes for almost 4 games in a row?

[DMAVS41]

Kobe being a guard, I don't think he's overrated. I some of the post here are possibly brain dead, but in general he's had all time great longevity for being a guard which is a harder position to play late into line due to the damage to joints and the greater distances they move over the course of a career.

Now comparing him to Duncan, we'll agree is a bit silly. What duncan did last year and is doing this year are truly special.

Of course it depends on who is doing the rating. I doubt you, for example, a reasonable human being...over-rate him

But listing things off like "year 20" is a bit disingenuous even if it's technically true.

Kobe's elongated prime is one of the more impressive things in NBA history for a variety of reasons. 00 through 13 he was one of the best players in the game year in year out....outside of 05. Very few players have ever put together a long prime like that.

[Donkey4trading]

that doesn't show you anything...he was not relevant in the regular season...the team playing him in the playoffs means nothing


are you serious?

so the fact that they were forced to replace their starting shooting guard with a D League player doesn't show how they were extremely low on talent?

ok

:oldlol: :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Can you please response do an actual point, like actually counter something I'm saying instead of just inserting your opinion like its fact :oldlol: :oldlol:

please explain how they weren't a bad squad in April when they had an 8 man roation, 2 of the starters were Steve Blake and Earl Clarc, No Gasol, no Nash and having to rely on one player to play 48 minutes for almost 4 games in a row?

Dude. Could you respond to my points? Because this response is another non starter.

When did my argument consist of only April?

And sorry...it is simply a fact....if the Lakers were just so bad outside of Kobe...they actually would have performed much worse than they really did.

Like...how on earth did they only get 2.3 points per 100 possessions worse without Kobe on the floor if they just sucked so much? And they went 3-1 without Kobe on the year.

Like...there is absolutely no evidence they were a scrub supporting cast in the regular season.

[DMAVS41]

are you serious?

so the fact that they were forced to replace their starting shooting guard with a D League player doesn't show how they were extremely low on talent?

ok

:oldlol: :oldlol:

So....Goudelock played a role in the regular season?

Again, you guys just have to use your brains. I don't believe you are all this dumb.

[dhsilv]

And again...that isn't a scrub supporting cast.

Kobe playing great (which he absolutely did) is not an argument that the supporting cast was a scrub cast

Notice how you continue to change the argument? It's really just a sign you can't defend your actual position.

Perhaps wasted typing, but the Laker's PER without Kobe was 14.04.

The rockets that year without Harden were 14.25. The Warriors without Curry were 13.69.

Rockets had the same record and the warriors won two more games. Kobe was considered the better player than year than Harden and Curry.

[DMAVS41]

Perhaps wasted typing, but the Laker's PER without Kobe was 14.04.

The rockets that year without Harden were 14.25. The Warriors without Curry were 13.69.

Rockets had the same record and the warriors won two more games. Kobe was considered the better player than year than Harden and Curry.

Uh oh...someone brining facts and valid evidence....

Flame him!

[dhsilv]

FYI the 06 lakers had a PER of 13.085 outside of Kobe, just to compare what a team of scrubs might look like paired with kobe.

[VeeCee15]

Kobe rested for the past 4 seasons.

/End Thread

[Shih508]

FYI the 06 lakers had a PER of 13.085 outside of Kobe, just to compare what a team of scrubs might look like paired with kobe.

It's hard to have good PER for anyone playing with Kobe tbh. On the other hand, playing with Duncan is the opposite.

[AirBonner]

Kobe makes 20 million more per season then Duncan. That's why Kobe's team sucks because he is sucking them dry.

[sportjames23]

op might be right.

duncan plays alongside 2 of the greatest international players, and they've been the key to the spurs' success since 2007 (at the very latest).

and GOAT popovich? :eek:

i've never seen a player so weak on offense be touted for his longevity like duncan has. his fans also tried giving him full credit aka "alpha dog" status for the last spurs championship. what a joke. :oldlol:


Well, look who's back. And shitting on Duncan, too. :oldlol:

Never change, dude. :lol

[sportjames23]

are you trying to look stupid?

do you really think anyone has argued that Duncan has been a great offensive player lately?


He doesn't have to try. :lol

[bukowski81]

9ppg & skewed defensive +/- stats because of minutes

GOAT longevity though.

ITT duncan fans are delusional as f*** :roll:


He is 39 dude, what is great longevity to you??

[STATUTORY]

Duncan loves having other men taking loads from him, can't compare him to an alpha like Mamba

[TomBrady]

Tim Duncan is a much greater player than Kobe Bryant, he's the greatest power forward ever and an arguable top 5 all-time player.

GOAT QB recognize GOAT PF.

[tmacattack33]

Duncan is sitting out tonight to rest.

Leonard sitting out to rest.

Manu is out to rest.

They're winning by 34 points.

Kobe had to drive himself into the ground carrying bums.

Kobe had the greatest 17th season of all time.

:biggums:

Didn't Kobe and the Lakers lose to the Sixers to give them their only win of the year?

[ShaqTwizzle]

Kobe's longevity while very good really isn't anything special.

00 - borderline All-Star.
01-10 - the elite years.
*****
11 -Decent reg-season but his body breaks down near the end and he plays terribly in the playoffs.
Can't give him much value for this year due to the late breakdown and putrid playoffs.

12 - This was his most "empty stat" year.
Was very inefficient/inconsistent, terrible defensively and bombed against OKC in the playoffs.
I don't think his impact this year was very good at all.

13 - Nice reg-season but then he got injured which renders the season worthless unfortunetly.

Kobe was a high impact or elite player from 00-10.
That is 11 years.

Very good but hardly (unusually good) when looking at many of the Top greats even outside the Top 10.

Duncan is way ahead of Kobe in terms of overall longevity.

[DaOldLion]

Kobe's longevity while very good really isn't anything special.

00 - borderline All-Star.



first team all defense/2nd team all nba/ all-star = "borderline All-Star"

:biggums: :biggums:

[Dr Hawk]

Duncan is the luckiest all-time great. Put Hakeem on those Spurs teams and they would have won 8 rings at leeast

[ShaqTwizzle]

first team all defense/2nd team all nba/ all-star = "borderline All-Star"


He was still extremely inconsistent that year and wasn't reliable the way you would expect true ASCaliber players to be.

I think he failed to produce at an All-Star level in 7/15 playoff games they won in their Western run that year and then of course was injured/useless for most of the Finals.

Is a guy really a legit "All-Star" if he isn't performing at an All-Star level in almost half your playoff wins?
Like I say he was borderline that year.
His average level of production was just barely All-Star level and he was still very inconsistent.

[DaOldLion]

He was still extremely inconsistent that year and wasn't reliable the way you would expect true ASCaliber players to be.

I think he failed to produce at an All-Star level in 7/15 playoff games they won in their Western run that year and then of course was injured/useless for most of the Finals.

Is a guy really a legit "All-Star" if he isn't performing at an All-Star level in almost half your playoff wins?
Like I say he was borderline that year.
His average level of production was just barely All-Star level and he was still very inconsistent.

dude he was ALL NBA FIRST TEAM defense and ALL NBA SECOND TEAM overall

that is more than a "borderline All-star"

[Horatio33]

Duncan was elite from day one (All NBA First team and All NBA Defensive First team as a Rookie) where Kobe's first two seasons were poor.

[SsKSpurs21]

Duncan is sitting out tonight to rest.

Leonard sitting out to rest.

Manu is out to rest.

They're winning by 34 points.

Kobe had to drive himself into the ground carrying bums.

Kobe had the greatest 17th season of all time.

Kobe shouldnt have signed for $24mill so mitch could find him more help.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe shouldnt have signed for $24mill so mitch could find him more help.

You don't know how this works, huh?

The Lakers have no problem going over the cap and paying luxury taxes.

How much Kobe is making is irrelevant.

[f0und]

You don't know how this works, huh?

The Lakers have no problem going over the cap and paying luxury taxes.

How much Kobe is making is irrelevant.

theres also the fact that noone wants to play with an over the hill, selfish, low iq chucker. what moron would want to play with kobe over duncan at this point in their careers? duncan can still play a big role and have a positive impact, whereas kobe......well not much much needs to be said.

[DMAVS41]

You don't know how this works, huh?

The Lakers have no problem going over the cap and paying luxury taxes.

How much Kobe is making is irrelevant.

You really don't know how it works actually....you can't just "go over the cap"...that isn't how it works

Yes, you can in some cases...via trades or signing back your own guys like the Cavs did, but you can't just spend 120 million on free agents

Kobe's contract definitely hurt the Lakers chances of building a quality team

Do you really think Dirk and Duncan would take huge paycuts if it didn't help at all? LOL

[Anaximandro1]

:lol

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CRU2jLR8UR8/VmeGMEoke3I/AAAAAAAAFAo/uzOEa70k3fc/s1600/140.jpg


:oldlol:

ESPN DRPM
(http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM)http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0GBwaBzqh5g/VmeGMC-_vwI/AAAAAAAAFAk/mrSCwr9TEQ8/s1600/141.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xqdl_8CLIYQ/VmeJ0GyjP0I/AAAAAAAAFA4/Y-Qx4y9yVuQ/s1600/142.jpg


:roll:
NBA Players Salaries (http://espn.go.com/nba/salaries)
#1. Kobe Bryant $25,000,000
#135. Tim Duncan $5,250,000


:applause:
ESPN Defensive Player of the Month: Tim Duncan (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/112105/defensive-player-of-the-month-tim-duncan)


:bowdown:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qYFDgFwdANc/VkdnXXW5T5I/AAAAAAAAE5o/HCboK5iVf10/s1600/200.jpg

[DrakeTheSnake]

Duncan is sitting out tonight to rest.

Leonard sitting out to rest.

Manu is out to rest.

They're winning by 34 points.

Kobe had to drive himself into the ground carrying bums.

Kobe had the greatest 17th season of all time.
So much ****ing salt. :roll:

[LeBird]

Duncan's incredibly overrated these days. He's just slightly less overrated than Kobe. Both get far to much credit for their team's success.

[JT123]

Duncan's incredibly overrated these days. He's just slightly less overrated than Kobe. Both get far to much credit for their team's success.
True. But at least Duncan is still productive in his final days, and would never put his team's rebuilding process on hold for some contrived retirement tour.
That is why despite being overrated he is still top 15 all time, while Kobe is not.

[houston]

Duncan gets credit for shit he doesn't even do anymore, holy shit.


this is true indeed

[Shih508]

Everything Spurs has done since Duncan's day 1, more or less is all because of Duncan. Stay salty.

[LeBird]

True. But at least Duncan is still productive in his final days, and would never put his team's rebuilding process on hold for some contrived retirement tour.
That is why despite being overrated he is still top 15 all time, while Kobe is not.

But can you imagine Kobe playing so few minutes and still be credited with rings as if he was the main dude?

There's a phenomena in sports where if one player is underrated for a long time, towards the end of a long career he gets ridiculous over-exaggerated hype. Giggs, Jeter and Duncan are examples of this.

I mean, some put Duncan in the GOAT level of players. :facepalm

[dhsilv]

But can you imagine Kobe playing so few minutes and still be credited with rings as if he was the main dude?

There's a phenomena in sports where if one player is underrated for a long time, towards the end of a long career he gets ridiculous over-exaggerated hype. Giggs, Jeter and Duncan are examples of this.

I mean, some put Duncan in the GOAT level of players. :facepalm

Some people value consistency and success.

[Purch]

Duncan is the nba's all time leader in playoff minutes.



He's literally played over two 82 game seasons worth of playoff minutes

[DMAVS41]

But can you imagine Kobe playing so few minutes and still be credited with rings as if he was the main dude?

There's a phenomena in sports where if one player is underrated for a long time, towards the end of a long career he gets ridiculous over-exaggerated hype. Giggs, Jeter and Duncan are examples of this.

I mean, some put Duncan in the GOAT level of players. :facepalm

You realize nobody is saying Duncan's 14 ring is the same as winning as the main dude... Right?

You also must realize that he was the main dude for 4 rings.

You also should realize that Duncan is absolutely in the elite tier all time. He had an absurdly good prime and great longevity.

[Odinn]

Duncan's salary in;
2013-14: 10.4 million USD / 62W team
2014-15: 10.0 million USD / 55W team
2015-16: 5.0 million USD / 18W team

Kobe's salary in;
2013-14: 30.4 million USD / 27W team
2014-15: 23.5 million USD / 21W team
2015-16: 25.0 million USD / 3W team

---

Sure if Kobe was healthy, Lakers would have won more games. But is there a wonder why Duncan has a better team and Kobe needs to push his body more?

So, do not cry about Kobe because Duncan has the better team. Even though he's not in his prime, Duncan has a positive influence on his team even with just off-court performance.

[Phenith]

I will be so happy when this is all over. Kobe's "F everyone else but myself" attitude over the last dozen years(or more) has rubbed off on way too many of his fans and they'll now stick up for him regardless of how ridiculous they sound.
Kobe is an all time great player, period. I'm not ranking his career yet, but, he is clearly NOT the goat, but when the dust settles, he will be a remembered player (unlike so many other greats) instead of an afterthought. Kobe fans should embrace knowing that Kobes' legacy will be remembered... and stop blindly making yourselves fools while trying to defend your hero... he has already admitted he is done and is now on his farewell tour.
And to you non-Kobe fans, QUIT FEEDING THE TROLLS!