Wilt Chamberlain never fouled out of an NBA basketball game:

[CavaliersFTW]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2BYna4P4ezY/VmcmG1gXkEI/AAAAAAAAHX8/_95UTby86X0/s800-Ic42/Wilt%252520Never%252520Fouled%252520Out.jpg

[warriorfan]

Wilt would check himself out after 5 fouls to preserve his retarded record

Dat winning attitude :applause:

[Psileas]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2BYna4P4ezY/VmcmG1gXkEI/AAAAAAAAHX8/_95UTby86X0/s800-Ic42/Wilt%252520Never%252520Fouled%252520Out.jpg


Yes, buttttt...it's well known that he stopped playing defense once he reached 2 fouls doe. :coleman:

[iamgine]

Pretty easy feat with the "no blood no foul" rule from the 60s.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Must have played weak D.

[feyki]

One guy had fear of fouled out , another guy had fear of PER .


StatPadders .

[ArbitraryWater]

One guy had fear of fouled out , another guy had fear of PER .


StatPadders .

what?

Anyway, that stat wasn't often used against Wilt, as soon as he had 5 fouls he supposedly stopped trying, avoiding contact at the basket, and opponents made use of it.

[TheImmortal]

Wonder how many times Bill Russell fouled out.. let that be your homework for the day.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wonder how many times Bill Russell fouled out.. let that be your homework for the day.
24 times

[MP.Trey]

Imagine the bitching about reffing if there was ISH in the 60's.

[CavaliersFTW]

what?

Anyway, that stat wasn't often used against Wilt, as soon as he had 5 fouls he supposedly stopped trying, avoiding contact at the basket, and opponents made use of it.
His win loss record in those 30 games (out of 1205 games, at least 964 of which he had 3 fouls or less) that he had 5 fouls is 16 wins 14 losses.

Of those 14 losses only 3 of them were close losses, and only 2 of those were in the playoffs.

Do you think he should have fouled out 2 times in his career, for 2 more wins? We don't actually have those games on film so we can only assume he did or did not play worse in those games due to his foul trouble. Worthy of dismissing / scoffing at this record?

[ClipperRevival]

That's not something to be proud of. As a matter of fact, for a big, you would expect to foul out once in a while. That suggests to me that he either played a soft game or didn't quite bring it at all times. There are just some games where it gets physical and/or you commit a few dumb fouls and you foul out.

But Wilt being the GOAT of GOATs, I guess he was just that good at avoiding fouls.

[jongib369]

Absolutely incredible... It'd make more sense if he was one dimensional...But dominating every statistical category, playing that many minutes and to not foul out is just ridiculous

Though I think that would change if he went up against this guy... They'd probably make each other furious, and better players if they didn't kill each other

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CU0rz3vUsAAVtcV.jpg


Had a dream after getting off ISH at like 3AM once about them going at it 1 on 1....Wilt was winning, but Shaq ended up making Wilts heart stop by trying to back him down, bulldozing into his chest :eek:

[LoneyROY7]

But his teammates did in an effort to get him a bogus 100 points.

[imnew09]

too soft. beta

[Elosha]

Absolutely incredible... It'd make more sense if he was one dimensional...But dominating every statistical category, playing that many minutes and to not foul out is just ridiculous

Though I think that would change if he went up against this guy... They'd probably make each other furious, and better players if they didn't kill each other

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CU0rz3vUsAAVtcV.jpg


Had a dream after getting off ISH at like 3AM once about them going at it 1 on 1....Wilt was winning, but Shaq ended up making Wilts heart stop by trying to back him down, bulldozing into his chest :eek:

That's a pretty sweet photoshop. Don't think I've seen it before. Is that supposed to be reasonably "to scale?" It looks like it is. Pretty interesting to compare a younger Shaq's physique in this picture to a younger Chamberlain's. Shaq definitely looks more massive and thicker/heavier, but Wilt has a little bit longer of a reach.

[jongib369]

That's a pretty sweet photoshop. Don't think I've seen it before. Is that supposed to be reasonably "to scale?" It looks like it is. Pretty interesting to compare a younger Shaq's physique in this picture to a younger Chamberlain's. Shaq definitely looks more massive and thicker/heavier, but Wilt has a little bit longer of a reach.
http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wilt-vs-Shaq1.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/JTJTPhotos/NBA/Shaq/Wilt/Untitled_zpsrlshocqw.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WyCG5jdVpww/UYMsNU3AJwI/AAAAAAAAEUQ/pfUbe2nwYv0/s800/Wilt%2520Shaq%25201.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PB90e_C6NK8/UPBNCGzYw-I/AAAAAAAAD-U/N-1OvYgq2no/s800/WiltShaq.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/4kh0sg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KusZeIr.jpg

[jongib369]

That's a pretty sweet photoshop. Don't think I've seen it before. Is that supposed to be reasonably "to scale?" It looks like it is. Pretty interesting to compare a younger Shaq's physique in this picture to a younger Chamberlain's. Shaq definitely looks more massive and thicker/heavier, but Wilt has a little bit longer of a reach.
Shaq does win the pushing game IMO. He's heavier, with size 22's compared to Wilts 15s. Not saying that Shaq could stop Wilt, but as far as backing down goes I think he's got the edge. But Wilt has overall Athleticism, and length on his side. Also think Shaq would be bothered more by Wilts presense on D than the other way around, given the nature of their playing styles. Shaq might have to make more adjustments

[pudman13]

what?

Anyway, that stat wasn't often used against Wilt, as soon as he had 5 fouls he supposedly stopped trying, avoiding contact at the basket, and opponents made use of it.

Actually, Havlicek said it was after *4* that he changed how he played.

[CavaliersFTW]

Actually, Havlicek said it was after *4* that he changed how he played.
Good to know. Don't a lot of important players change how they play when under a perceived foul trouble?

[IMObjective]

Must have played weak D.http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/kMdEcF.gif
The 'unblockable' skyhook

[warriorfan]

Actually, Havlicek said it was after *4* that he changed how he played.

Damn Wilt sure was keeping that record safe. The funniest part about it is that if Wilt cared about winning half as much as his meaningless statistics he would of had Bill Russell type of success. :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

Good to know. Don't a lot of important players change how they play when under a perceived foul trouble?
:lol

Something tells me that this will just get glossed over.

[TommyGriffin]

http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/619/6199714/2425185-5536979159-23742.gif

[CavaliersFTW]

http://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/619/6199714/2425185-5536979159-23742.gif
What on earth backfired? :oldlol:

[pudman13]

Good to know. Don't a lot of important players change how they play when under a perceived foul trouble?

I have mixed feelings about this. I don't want to listen to what Simmons has to say, of course, but Havlicek wasn't interested in badmouthing players. He said Wilt's defense was not as strong once he got to four, and I believe him.

Moses Malone also went a really long period of time without fouling out. I think a big part of this is skill (rather than "softness"), but I do think that Wilt's pride in the record probably led to some instances where he could have played better but didn't. Same with his goal of leading the league in assists...both are about setting a personal goal rather than a team goal. At the same time, I'm not willing to suggest that Wilt was any kind of "loser" as Rick Barry originally stated. Like you, I wish we had a lot more video of him (and also of his peers in their prime) to make better judgments. Kareem got criticized for being "soft" a lot...and I watched him all through the 80s and think that was not valid criticism at all.

[dunksby]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/kMdEcF.gif
The 'unblockable' skyhook
Nothing is unblockable, and that's goal tending.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nothing is unblockable, and that's goal tending.

nahh its not, even if its so close would just ruin the great block.

[CavaliersFTW]

I have mixed feelings about this. I don't want to listen to what Simmons has to say, of course, but Havlicek wasn't interested in badmouthing players. He said Wilt's defense was not as strong once he got to four, and I believe him.

Moses Malone also went a really long period of time without fouling out. I think a big part of this is skill (rather than "softness"), but I do think that Wilt's pride in the record probably led to some instances where he could have played better but didn't. Same with his goal of leading the league in assists...both are about setting a personal goal rather than a team goal. At the same time, I'm not willing to suggest that Wilt was any kind of "loser" as Rick Barry originally stated. Like you, I wish we had a lot more video of him (and also of his peers in their prime) to make better judgments. Kareem got criticized for being "soft" a lot...and I watched him all through the 80s and think that was not valid criticism at all.
Right but shouldn't the question also be:

Did Michael Jordan play any different when under foul trouble?

Did Hakeem Olajuwon? Did Shaq? Does LeBron James? Etc

The only team I see a lot of games are are Cavs games, and when players (such as LeBron, or Kyrie) get in foul trouble on the Cavs, they play differently... seems to be just how basketball is played by a lot of players is it not?

Only Wilt was really good at not even getting into foul trouble based on those numbers.

[Derka]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-08-2015/kMdEcF.gif
The 'unblockable' skyhook
The irrefutable goaltend.

[Elosha]

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wilt-vs-Shaq1.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/JTJTPhotos/NBA/Shaq/Wilt/Untitled_zpsrlshocqw.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WyCG5jdVpww/UYMsNU3AJwI/AAAAAAAAEUQ/pfUbe2nwYv0/s800/Wilt%2520Shaq%25201.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PB90e_C6NK8/UPBNCGzYw-I/AAAAAAAAD-U/N-1OvYgq2no/s800/WiltShaq.jpg

http://i25.tinypic.com/4kh0sg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KusZeIr.jpg

Thanks for the additional pics. The last one with Wilt without his shirt is interesting. I assume this must when he was fairly young and playing for the Warriors or 76er's. Although his arms are large and well developed in this picture, his chest is relatively narrow and he doesn't look like he has much back muscles or lats at all. Overall very skinny.

Not trying to be overly critical, but this is not the physique of a guy who can bench press 500+. Skinny chest, skinny back, and extraordinarily long arms are all the antithesis of powerful bench press. That's NOT to say that perhaps later in his career when he was much heavier and more muscular that he couldn't have a great bench press, but in this particular picture, I'd say it would be almost impossible for him to have anything close to 500.

Same with Shaq, I bet he probably got up to somewhere between 400-450 in his Lakers prime (when he was known to be a serious weightlifter) but no more. He's got a body type more ideal for heavy weightlifting than Wilt, but he was much more lazy and less dedicated to weightlifting than Wilt was.

[Elosha]

Shaq does win the pushing game IMO. He's heavier, with size 22's compared to Wilts 15s. Not saying that Shaq could stop Wilt, but as far as backing down goes I think he's got the edge. But Wilt has overall Athleticism, and length on his side. Also think Shaq would be bothered more by Wilts presense on D than the other way around, given the nature of their playing styles. Shaq might have to make more adjustments

I agree with some of this. To be honest, from all the video I've seen from both players, I find Shaq's overall strength and athleticism more impressive than Wilt's, although Wilt's endurance was obviously superior to Shaq. But as far as "basketball strength", physical dominance, explosiveness, and quickness (i.e. spin moves, establishing position, etc., I find Shaq looks better, other than Wilt's definite inclination to challenge/block more shots.

On the other hand, I think it possible that Wilt was a more skilled/varied scorer with a better touch than Shaq, although it's close. Shaq was a far better and more versatile scorer than people give him credit for, not just a dunker.

To me, this would be the greatest center battle of all time, along with these two battling KAJ. Not exactly sure who would come out on top, but it would be riveting to watch.

[LAZERUSS]

Yes, buttttt...it's well known that he stopped playing defense once he reached 2 fouls doe. :coleman:

Exactly.

In his regular season career, he played 45.8 mpg, and averaged 2.0 PFs per game.

In his post-season career, he played 47.2 mpg, and averaged 2.5 PFs per game.

Can you imagine how many more shots he would have blocked had he not backed down after he reached 2 PFs?

And can you imagine how much worse guys like Russell, Thurmond, Bellamy, and KAJ would have shot against Wilt, had he not quit playing defense with 2PFs? As it was, they all shot about a full 10% less than than their career averages against Chamberlain.

Oh, and how about this...

[QUOTE]In the post-season, the Lakers swept the Chicago Bulls,[88] then went on to face the Milwaukee Bucks of young superstar center and regular-season MVP Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (formerly Lew Alcindor). The matchup between Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabbar was hailed by LIFE magazine as the greatest matchup in all of sports. Chamberlain would help lead the Lakers past Jabbar and the Bucks in six games.[88] Particularly, Chamberlain was lauded for his performance in Game 6, which the Lakers won 104

[jongib369]

Thanks for the additional pics. The last one with Wilt without his shirt is interesting. I assume this must when he was fairly young and playing for the Warriors or 76er's. Although his arms are large and well developed in this picture, his chest is relatively narrow and he doesn't look like he has much back muscles or lats at all. Overall very skinny.

Not trying to be overly critical, but this is not the physique of a guy who can bench press 500+. Skinny chest, skinny back, and extraordinarily long arms are all the antithesis of powerful bench press. That's NOT to say that perhaps later in his career when he was much heavier and more muscular that he couldn't have a great bench press, but in this particular picture, I'd say it would be almost impossible for him to have anything close to 500.

Same with Shaq, I bet he probably got up to somewhere between 400-450 in his Lakers prime (when he was known to be a serious weightlifter) but no more. He's got a body type more ideal for heavy weightlifting than Wilt, but he was much more lazy and less dedicated to weightlifting than Wilt was.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/wilt-chamberlain-picture-id515102767

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/wilt-chamberlain-picture-id515102761

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/83190057-basketball-closeup-portrait-of-former-player-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QduuMJ1CrVKYEX5NX4dS03x%2bQQ 6%2fIJbVuyX4yiFvPbHmqXpbrN6E6HvO2v%2fgbh1L%2fw%3d% 3d

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/basketball-closeup-of-philadelphia-warriors-wilt-chamberlain-in-shot-picture-id452279572

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/81985538-wilt-chamberlain-of-the-los-angeles-lakers-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QSd8pcQkqXU8R0nwcRlQ%2fKbNV0 ycwwubtJyDQm3HWzdz10znCIcPShtDDTVW1Avb8S3%2be3tGm% 2fucnsC7Oj6n3%2bA%3d


Someone needs to browse Getty for a few hours seeing if there's any other good Wilt, and Shaq pictures we could size up

[sd3035]

two options: unbelievable ref help, or soft beta bitch defense

[jongib369]

I agree with some of this. To be honest, from all the video I've seen from both players, I find Shaq's overall strength and athleticism more impressive than Wilt's, although Wilt's endurance was obviously superior to Shaq. But as far as "basketball strength", physical dominance, explosiveness, and quickness (i.e. spin moves, establishing position, etc., I find Shaq looks better, other than Wilt's definite inclination to challenge/block more shots.

On the other hand, I think it possible that Wilt was a more skilled/varied scorer with a better touch than Shaq, although it's close. Shaq was a far better and more versatile scorer than people give him credit for, not just a dunker.

To me, this would be the greatest center battle of all time, along with these two battling KAJ. Not exactly sure who would come out on top, but it would be riveting to watch.


Completely agree...I'd pick the 3 of them over Jordan building a team

I can respect that, though I think Chamberlain beating him in endurance, speed, leaping ability etc gives him a good edge. I've always felt as if Shaq was a bit quicker, with better footwork, and a body better suited for pushing... But when it comes to scoring, rebounding, defending, passing etc I still give the nod to Chamberlain. On D Wilts length, and athleticism would also cause Shaq more fits than it would the other way around IMO


https://youtu.be/wPMUyRyTflw?t=54s

https://youtu.be/G94iJr8ZbzM?t=31m30s

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/shaq-kneepads-1.jpg
https://nbccollegebasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/slideshow-most-memorable-march-madness-wilt-chamberlain.jpg

https://thebosshog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/tumblr_kweumcp2aa1qz6f9yo1_400.png

:bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

this just means wilt wasn't aggressive on defense or was given preferential treatment from the refs like lebron

this isnt a good record to have at all

[jongib369]

this just means wilt wasn't aggressive on defense or was given preferential treatment from the refs like lebron

this isnt a good record to have at all
http://cdn.solecollector.com/media/sneakers/images/Online%20Shaq%20Reebok.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l00r8pcF7Z1qbrewxo1_500.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/457247530-basketball-casual-portrait-of-former-nba-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QYJKfBcElZ63wz%2FCBwC1g%2FsQ psgUcLeku2%2BwqUz5FL9OcSLxzhFLGVnMtinN51NZWg%3D%3D


http://45.media.tumblr.com/71a12c1228482949ed111efa92364eb1/tumblr_nyrhr9dddW1td15w4o4_250.gif

http://45.media.tumblr.com/f5f54e91c8ddcb71fce0336613dcee96/tumblr_nyrhr9dddW1td15w4o7_400.gif

[feyki]

this just means wilt wasn't aggressive on defense or was given preferential treatment from the refs like lebron

this isnt a good record to have at all

He probably greatest shot blocker after Manute Bol in nba history . But he hasn't solid on ball defence .

[jongib369]

He probably greatest shot blocker after Manute Bol in nba history . But he hasn't solid on ball defence .
Only two people have held Kareem to below 50%...One of them is Named Wilt. I think that's pretty solid

[feyki]

Only two people have held Kareem to below 50%...One of them is Named Wilt. I think that's pretty solid

That isn't about on ball defence .

[DaRkJaWs]

bruhs, I am sick and tired of your terrible criticisms of Wilt's never having fouled out, so let me tell you how he played D so you can understand why that was.

I'm not sure why other Wilt supporters don't point out the following facts: For one, Wilt did not put a body on his opponents unless they were both far from the hoop, and this wasn't until about 1965/1966 or so that he started doing this (he stopped again once his knees started giving out, just a few years later). Before then he still kept a distance and would simply use his insane athleticism and length to block perimeter shots.

You know the NBA's rule on jumping straight up without getting called for the foul? Who do you think ultimately inspired this idea, based on his play? Yes in fact, it was Wilt, who showed the NBA not only how not to get a foul, but in fact how it is you're supposed to play so that you SHOULD NOT get a foul called. The major reason why he wouldn't get called for fouls is because he relied entirely on his athleticism on the defensive end, as opposed to movement, boxing out, the kind of thing they teach other people to do or players typically rely on. Technically the way Wilt rebounded (he never boxed out) gives away his style entirely: He relied on athleticism and length, and it worked remarkably well. In his younger years his athleticism (and still functioning legs) and skillset made him a force the NBA has never seen since, just watch his college videos for proof of how dominating and intimidating a presence he was (watch also why it was he wouldn't get fouls called on him, because it's all athleticism breh!). He would jump straight up and go for the BALL as opposed to worrying about the opponents body (and why would he worry? bodies bounced off him like no tomorrow, and given the way he played all the way until his very last game in the league this proved what many people said: that he was probably the strongest man alive). And the funny part is that this is the way they teach players NOT to play (meaning coaches teach you to block out, set good screens, etc). But the NBA has to make sure athleticism stays front and center, and so they reward it...The rule the NBA initiated on how to get away with playing D without getting a foul call is one that rewards athleticism, and is against centers who try to get by with size alone. As many of us know, size has exactly been the thing the NBA has tried to deal with for decades now, ever since Wilt scared the shit out of them. The reason centers have died off is because the NBA killed them, and because we try to make players into well rounded players they don't learn the kind of grueling back to the basket type of play, but also that once in a decade kind of player just doesn't seem to exist for reasons that I really don't understand. I have to assume the societal aspect of expecting players to become an MJ instead of a Wilt has a lot to do with it though.

But suffice to say, only Wilt could get away with playing that way...because to do so requires the trifecta of skill, power, athleticism, and to go with all that he had length. Just impossible folks, impossible to duplicate. Shaq didn't have the right kind of athleticism, his power was in a different area and overall was overrated. Should also mention that when it came to setting screens that Wilt didn't position his body the way they teach you to (see https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/articles/how-to-set-pick-in-basketball.html). His screens were just moving his body to a spot and standing there, he never spread his feet, put his hip down or bent his knees. Because he did not do this he wasn't the most effective at setting screens, but it was also impossible to ever call a foul on him for it. In fact, if there's one criticism of Chamberlain that should be made, ironically it's that he rarely relied on his body to do most of the work like other centers (really all players, not just centers) have from any time period. He never put his hand or body in front of the defenders face, always giving them too much space to shoot the jumper, even if in his younger years he would block them all. Another reason why he wouldn't get fouls, but also didn't help his team at times the way he could have. He really was infected with the thought that he shouldn't use just his body to his advantage, that it should all be about athleticism and skill. It may have cost him a few championships. And I say this knowing the other causes of him losing were bigger...but he was just so great that he really could do it all, it's just more than likely that the reason he didn't especially as he aged was that he had bad knees. The stories shared of the 1968 conf finals show how must mobility Wilt had lost particularly with the injuries he had that season.

You scrubs are pathetic.

[DaRkJaWs]

That isn't about on ball defence .
then wtf is on ball defense for a CENTER?

[CavaliersFTW]

bruhs, I am sick and tired of your terrible criticisms of Wilt's never having fouled out, so let me tell you how he played D so you can understand why that was.

I'm not sure why other Wilt supporters don't point out the following facts: For one, Wilt did not put a body on his opponents unless they were both far from the hoop, and this wasn't until about 1965/1966 or so that he started doing this. Before then he still kept a distance and would simply use his insane athleticism and length to block perimeter shots.

You know the NBA's rule on jumping straight up without getting called for the foul? Who do you think ultimately inspired this idea, based on his play? Yes in fact, it was Wilt, who showed the NBA not only how not to get a foul, but in fact how it is you're supposed to play so that you SHOULD NOT get a foul called. The major reason why he wouldn't get called for fouls is because he relied entirely on his athleticism on the defensive end, as opposed to movement, boxing out, the kind of thing they teach other people to do or players typically rely on. Technically the way Wilt rebounded (he never boxed out) gives away his style entirely: He relied on athleticism and length, and it worked remarkably well. In his younger years his athleticism (and still functioning legs) and skillset made him a force the NBA has never seen since, just watch his college videos for proof of how dominating and intimidating a presence he was (watch also why it was he wouldn't get fouls called on him, because it's all athleticism breh!). He would jump straight up and go for the BALL as opposed to worrying about the opponents body (and why would he worry? bodies bounced off him like no tomorrow, and given the way he played all the way until his very last game in the league this proved what many people said: that he was probably the strongest man alive). And the funny part is that this is the way they teach players NOT to play...so the rule the NBA initiated on how to get away with playing D without getting a foul call is one that rewards athleticism, and is against centers who try to get by with size alone. As many of us know, size has exactly been the thing the NBA has tried to deal with for decades now, ever since Wilt scared the shit out of them. The reason centers have died off is because the NBA killed them, and because we try to make players into well rounded players they don't learn the kind of grueling back to the basket type of play, but also that once in a decade kind of player just doesn't seem to exist for reasons that I really don't understand. I have to assume the societal aspect of expecting players to become an MJ instead of a Wilt has a lot to do with it though.

But suffice to say, only Wilt could get away with playing that way...because to do so requires the trifecta of skill, power, athleticism, and to go with all that he had length. Just impossible folks, impossible to duplicate. Shaq didn't have the right kind of athleticism, his power was in a different area and overall was overrated. Should also mention that when it came to setting screens that Wilt didn't position his body the way they teach you to (see https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/articles/how-to-set-pick-in-basketball.html). His screens were just moving his body to a spot and standing there, he never spread his feet, put his hip down or bent his knees. Because he did not do this he wasn't the most effective at setting screens, but it was also impossible to ever call a foul on him for it. In fact, if there's one criticism of Chamberlain that should be made, ironically it's that he rarely relied on his body to do most of the work like other centers have from any time period. He never put his hand or body in front of the defenders face, always giving them too much space to shoot the jumper, even if in his younger years he would block them all. Another reason why he wouldn't get fouls, but also didn't help his team at times the way he could have.

You scrubs are pathetic.
You bring up outstanding points but it's difficult to explain that in few words without someone assuming it had something to do with competition.

Wilt was doing things like snagging rebounds and blocking shots in such ways so as to make literally anyone look like "weak/garbage/short competition".

I know this from having had my YouTube channel up for years now. I could make a mix of just Wilt blocking shots and grabbing rebounds against Walt Bellamy, Artis Gilmore and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Guys that could physically MANHANDLE and ABUSE 90% of any center that is in the league right now.

Wilt blocks their dunks, hook shots, jump shots, layups, everything they threw at him with absolute impunity those guys might as well be 6 feet tall the way he can time their shots and block them - and do so in such a way that makes them flail around like a rag doll if they happen to have not released it by the time Wilt has his hand on it. Legit freaks of nature that are over 7 feet tall or 6-11 270lbs look 6 feet tall when he's doing it to them. You don't realize how insane it is to have them look so mortal against a player until you see film of Kareem and Gilmore in the 1980's when their same shots on even less athletic bodies are almost never getting blocked by anyone.

[TommyGriffin]

bruhs, I am sick and tired of your terrible criticisms of Wilt's never having fouled out, so let me tell you how he played D so you can understand why that was.

I'm not sure why other Wilt supporters don't point out the following facts: For one, Wilt did not put a body on his opponents unless they were both far from the hoop, and this wasn't until about 1965/1966 or so that he started doing this. Before then he still kept a distance and would simply use his insane athleticism and length to block perimeter shots.

You know the NBA's rule on jumping straight up without getting called for the foul? Who do you think ultimately inspired this idea, based on his play? Yes in fact, it was Wilt, who showed the NBA not only how not to get a foul, but in fact how it is you're supposed to play so that you SHOULD NOT get a foul called. The major reason why he wouldn't get called for fouls is because he relied entirely on his athleticism on the defensive end, as opposed to movement, boxing out, the kind of thing they teach other people to do or players typically rely on. Technically the way Wilt rebounded (he never boxed out) gives away his style entirely: He relied on athleticism and length, and it worked remarkably well. In his younger years his athleticism (and still functioning legs) and skillset made him a force the NBA has never seen since, just watch his college videos for proof of how dominating and intimidating a presence he was (watch also why it was he wouldn't get fouls called on him, because it's all athleticism breh!). He would jump straight up and go for the BALL as opposed to worrying about the opponents body (and why would he worry? bodies bounced off him like no tomorrow, and given the way he played all the way until his very last game in the league this proved what many people said: that he was probably the strongest man alive). And the funny part is that this is the way they teach players NOT to play...so the rule the NBA initiated on how to get away with playing D without getting a foul call is one that rewards athleticism, and is against centers who try to get by with size alone. As many of us know, size has exactly been the thing the NBA has tried to deal with for decades now, ever since Wilt scared the shit out of them. The reason centers have died off is because the NBA killed them, and because we try to make players into well rounded players they don't learn the kind of grueling back to the basket type of play, but also that once in a decade kind of player just doesn't seem to exist for reasons that I really don't understand. I have to assume the societal aspect of expecting players to become an MJ instead of a Wilt has a lot to do with it though.

But suffice to say, only Wilt could get away with playing that way...because to do so requires the trifecta of skill, power, athleticism, and to go with all that he had length. Just impossible folks, impossible to duplicate. Shaq didn't have the right kind of athleticism, his power was in a different area and overall was overrated. Should also mention that when it came to setting screens that Wilt didn't position his body the way they teach you to (see https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/articles/how-to-set-pick-in-basketball.html). His screens were just moving his body to a spot and standing there, he never spread his feet, put his hip down or bent his knees. Because he did not do this he wasn't the most effective at setting screens, but it was also impossible to ever call a foul on him for it. In fact, if there's one criticism of Chamberlain that should be made, ironically it's that he rarely relied on his body to do most of the work like other centers (really all players, not just centers) have from any time period. He never put his hand or body in front of the defenders face, always giving them too much space to shoot the jumper, even if in his younger years he would block them all. Another reason why he wouldn't get fouls, but also didn't help his team at times the way he could have. He really was infected with the thought that he shouldn't use just his body to his advantage, that it should all be about athleticism and skill. It may have cost him a few championships. And I say this knowing the other causes of him losing were bigger...but he was just so great that he really could do it all, it's just more than likely that the reason he didn't especially as he aged was that he had bad knees. The stories shared of the 1968 conf finals show how must mobility Wilt had lost particularly with the injuries he had that season.

You scrubs are pathetic.

This guy knows way more about Wilt than the OP.

[deja vu]

Shows that he cares much more about stats and image rather than winning.

[DaRkJaWs]

He cared about stats, sure (and so does almost everyone else), but he also was so conscious of the fact that he was bigger than everyone that he didn't want that to be a crutch for him to rely upon, especially in those days. He had something to prove, but eventually it all became habit and he really didn't know any other way to play but to use his athleticism.

he cared about winning, but I think because he was unable to be a leader (until he was actually chosen to be leader/team captain in 1971-1972) rubbed off on his teammates the wrong way, who felt those stares and negativity he directed their way. I think to an extent he was also content knowing he was undeniably the best player in basketball, even if they lost vs the celtics. He probably would have quit basketball if he had won earlier in his career. The fact that he lost always kept him coming back, because at heart he was a competitor. I think like others have once said, it would have been better if he went into an individual sport, it was the team aspect of basketball however that intrigued chamberlain but was also something that he, like Kobe, didn't know how to properly tune together to win. The difference is that Kobe had a fierce exterior competitive drive that wasn't all negative, and it drove his teammates. Wilt didn't know how to drive his teammates, he wasn't that type of individual for most of his career. He was just an individual, and everyone else on the team were just individuals, all raised in the golden age where individualistic values especially reigned supreme. And because he was so good he wasn't forced into relying on team play like Bill Russell was.

[dhsilv]

nahh its not, even if its so close would just ruin the great block.

close? That's about as clear a goal tend as I've ever seen...

[dhsilv]

Thanks for the additional pics. The last one with Wilt without his shirt is interesting. I assume this must when he was fairly young and playing for the Warriors or 76er's. Although his arms are large and well developed in this picture, his chest is relatively narrow and he doesn't look like he has much back muscles or lats at all. Overall very skinny.

Not trying to be overly critical, but this is not the physique of a guy who can bench press 500+. Skinny chest, skinny back, and extraordinarily long arms are all the antithesis of powerful bench press. That's NOT to say that perhaps later in his career when he was much heavier and more muscular that he couldn't have a great bench press, but in this particular picture, I'd say it would be almost impossible for him to have anything close to 500.

Same with Shaq, I bet he probably got up to somewhere between 400-450 in his Lakers prime (when he was known to be a serious weightlifter) but no more. He's got a body type more ideal for heavy weightlifting than Wilt, but he was much more lazy and less dedicated to weightlifting than Wilt was.

I've know 3 guys in my life who could bench 500 without a shirt. 10 maybe with....I'm not big on shirted lifts. Anyway I've yet to meet anyone with freaky long arms like wilt who could come close. I simply call 100% bs on wilt ever benching 500 without some kinda insane cheating.

i should point out a 500 bench no shirt would put you in the top 100 benches in the world right now...maybe for people who use so little steroids they can pass a test.

[DaRkJaWs]

close? That's about as clear a goal tend as I've ever seen...
That's what we call a bullshit goaltend. Many of Chamberlain's blocked shots were at the mid-way point rather than in the beginning of the shot, but I wonder who on earth would argue that someone on this planet earth could have done it better? In fact there is nobody who has ever blocked shots as prolifically as Wilt, who timed his jumps and had masterful timing. The entire point of goaltending was to prevent people from jumping up WELL AFTER the ball was shot and preventing it from going into the net. But Wilt did not do that. In other words, the goaltending rule was put in to PREVENT people from trying to block everything, which was another bid to stop tall people from ruining basketball. But the part that really bothers me, and bothered Wilt, is that he relied on athleticism and his wonderful timing to block those shots, and to go to all that trouble just to get a goaltend is really BULLSHIT. The refs during Wilt's time instinctively knew this, which is why they let most of Wilt's blocks count as legit, and would call a goaltend if it was particularly egregious or in case they've simply forgot it was Wilt they were calling the whistle on (early in games). Ironically the toughest loss Wilt says he had was in the 1962 conf finals vs. the celtics, where Wilt was called for a goaltend with less than 2 minutes remaining. They ended up losing on a buzzer beater to Sam Jones.

[dhsilv]

That's what we call a bullshit goaltend. Many of Chamberlain's blocked shots were at the mid-way point rather than in the beginning of the shot, but I wonder who on earth would argue that someone on this planet earth could have done it better? In fact there is nobody who has ever blocked shots as prolifically as Wilt, who timed his jumps and had masterful timing. The entire point of goaltending was to prevent people from jumping up WELL AFTER the ball was shot and preventing it from going into the net. But Wilt did not do that. In other words, the goaltending rule was put in to PREVENT people from trying to block everything, which was another bid to stop tall people from ruining basketball. But the part that really bothers me, and bothered Wilt, is that he relied on athleticism and his wonderful timing to block those shots, and to go to all that trouble just to get a goaltend is really BULLSHIT. The refs during Wilt's time instinctively knew this, which is why they let most of Wilt's blocks count as legit, and would call a goaltend if it was particularly egregious or in case they've simply forgot it was Wilt they were calling the whistle on (early in games). Ironically the toughest loss Wilt says he had was in the 1962 conf finals vs. the celtics, where Wilt was called for a goaltend with less than 2 minutes remaining. They ended up losing on a buzzer beater to Sam Jones.

That angle sold that as if wilt was close. The angle made it looks way less like a goal tend. That ball might have been going down for 6-12 inches before wilt "blocked" it. That's a goal tending play.

As for intentions of the rules, I didn't write the rules. I just call what I see.

[DaRkJaWs]

I've know 3 guys in my life who could bench 500 without a shirt. 10 maybe with....I'm not big on shirted lifts. Anyway I've yet to meet anyone with freaky long arms like wilt who could come close. I simply call 100% bs on wilt ever benching 500 without some kinda insane cheating.

i should point out a 500 bench no shirt would put you in the top 100 benches in the world right now...maybe for people who use so little steroids they can pass a test.
Yes, I actually had called one of the people he worked out with in the early 90s, someone who himself could bench 500 lbs. I asked about Wilt's strength and he said it was unreal, but when it came to his bench he said he couldn't lift no 500 lbs. He probably did do 400+ as other people attested to, but not 500. I actually don't think he benched press much in his everyday routine anyway, didn't sound like it according to the guy in question.

[Draz]

Weak ass era

[feyki]

then wtf is on ball defense for a CENTER?

Bill and Hakeem have all time great on ball defence . Of course , Wilt nearly 3-4 inches taller than them , that's disadvantadge for on ball defences . But Bill had same blocks numbers as Wilt's with 3-4 inches less height .

[TheImmortal]

24 times
Winner :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

Bill and Hakeem have all time great on ball defence . Of course , Wilt nearly 3-4 inches taller than them , that's disadvantadge for on ball defences . But Bill had same blocks numbers as Wilt's with 3-4 inches less height .

First of all, Fpliii's research indicates that Chamberlain clearly blocked more shots than Russell. And he also blocked considerably more in their H2H's, as well.

Secondly, Chamberlain's overall defensive impact was on par with Russell's from the mid-60's on.

But let me give you a great example...

In the '72 Finals, the Knicks had arguably the greatest long range shooter of his era, Jerry Lucas (the "Lucas Layup"), playing center. And in the first half of game one of that series, Lucas hit 9-11 from the field, with most of those shots coming from 20-25 feet.

A 35 year old Wilt then changed his defensive strategy and moved to the free throw line of defense. Amazingly, he shut Lucas down the rest of the series, and yet STILL averaged 7.4 bpg (as well as 23.2 rpg.)

Chamberlain was, without question, the greatest "rim protector" in NBA history. But he also showed his versatility by shutting down players like Bellamy, Kareem, Lanier, and others. And again, his defensive impact was top-2 all-time.

[feyki]

First of all, Fpliii's research indicates that Chamberlain clearly blocked more shots than Russell. And he also blocked considerably more in their H2H's, as well.

Secondly, Chamberlain's overall defensive impact was on par with Russell's from the mid-60's on.

But let me give you a great example...

In the '72 Finals, the Knicks had arguably the greatest long range shooter of his era, Jerry Lucas (the "Lucas Layup"), playing center. And in the first half of game one of that series, Lucas hit 9-11 from the field, with most of those shots coming from 20-25 feet.

A 35 year old Wilt then changed his defensive strategy and moved to the free throw line of defense. Amazingly, he shut Lucas down the rest of the series, and yet STILL averaged 7.4 bpg (as well as 23.2 rpg.)

Chamberlain was, without question, the greatest "rim protector" in NBA history. But he also showed his versatility by shutting down players like Bellamy, Kareem, Lanier, and others. And again, his defensive impact was top-2 all-time.


Yes , 8.8 to 8.1 . And Bill had 5.75 steals , Wilt had 1.5 .


Wilt never had same level defending as Bill's . Wilt is top 5 all time defender , but Bill Russell just another level on defence than everyone .

[SpanishACB]

makes you wonder

a) his drive
b) refereeing in the era

[LAZERUSS]

makes you wonder

a) his drive
b) refereeing in the era

At his peak, the equal of Russell on the defensive end; the greatest shot-blocker, and by a considerable margin, of all-time; and DRAMATICALLY reduced the efficiencies of players like Russell, Thurmond, Bellamy, Lanier, and Kareem in their H2H's.

As for the "refereeing", it must be noted that Chamberlain was basically the ONLY player of his era to not have fouled out, AND, his career AVERAGE was 2.0 PF's per game. He was SELDOM even remotely close to foul trouble.

[DaRkJaWs]

makes you wonder

a) his drive
b) refereeing in the era
bruh you don't know how to read do u?

[Round Mound]

The GOAT or and Top 3 Player of All Time.

[IMObjective]

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/yEMWNO.gif

[jongib369]

Yes, I actually had called one of the people he worked out with in the early 90s, someone who himself could bench 500 lbs. I asked about Wilt's strength and he said it was unreal, but when it came to his bench he said he couldn't lift no 500 lbs. He probably did do 400+ as other people attested to, but not 500. I actually don't think he benched press much in his everyday routine anyway, didn't sound like it according to the guy in question.
Did he deadlift? Given his long legs, short torso, and long arms I'd imagine with a trap bar he could pull some ridiculous numbers

[deja vu]

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/yEMWNO.gif
Did they have instant replays in the past? Looks like a goaltend to me, but it was close. Wouldn't be mad if it's a legit block.

[livinglegend]

He is dead.
Let him go :facepalm

[coin24]

He never fu*ked women:oldlol:

[Euroleague]

The NBA has been rigged from its inception. This is just more proof of that.

[dunksby]

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/yEMWNO.gif
Goal tending.

[SpaceJam]

Is fouls the only stat that didn't drop when playoffs came around?

[Fallen Angel]

makes you wonder

a) his drive
b) refereeing in the era
more of the lack of physical contact in the game back then

the game was so much more finesse than what it was in the 80s, 90s, 00s, and now.

[Marchesk]

Is fouls the only stat that didn't drop when playoffs came around?

Rebounding. That one went up in the playoffs. He led the playoffs in rebounding average 8 times.

[andgar923]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2BYna4P4ezY/VmcmG1gXkEI/AAAAAAAAHX8/_95UTby86X0/s800-Ic42/Wilt%252520Never%252520Fouled%252520Out.jpg

This aint something to brag about. :facepalm

[Asukal]

ILt made a mockery of the game of basketball hence only 2 titles in a bush league. :whatever:

[Psileas]

This aint something to brag about. :facepalm

Unless someone is your own boy crash, that is. The claimed as "elite defender", who never once averaged 3 pf's per game a season despite being among the mpg leaders year after year and never once got to 6 pf's in a game since 1991.

[DaRkJaWs]

This aint something to brag about. :facepalm
Yeah it is.

[sportjames23]

Wilt would check himself out after 5 fouls to preserve his retarded record

Dat winning attitude :applause:


Like Lebron not shooting a last second shot before halftime. :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Yeah it is.

This is clear evidence that the NBA refs always helped Wilt, and that he probably only played defense on like 1/3 of his team's defensive possessions.

How the hell is that something to brag about?

[LAZERUSS]

This is clear evidence that the NBA refs always helped Wilt, and that he probably only played defense on like 1/3 of his team's defensive possessions.

How the hell is that something to brag about?

Pretty amazing considering that Wilt routinely ran away with rebounding titles. Or the fact that he was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons (and the award was not given until near the end of his career.) Or that he held Nate Thurmond to a .360 FG% in their career H2H's; or Russell to .382 in their career H2H's; or Kareem to .464 in their career H2H's. Or that Wilt was considered the greatest shot blocker of his era.

Yep...he was a lazy cherry-picker alright.

[Psileas]

Pretty amazing considering that Wilt routinely ran away with rebounding titles. Or the fact that he was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons (and the award was not given until near the end of his career.) Or that he held Nate Thurmond to a .360 FG% in their career H2H's; or Russell to .382 in their career H2H's; or Kareem to .464 in their career H2H's. Or that Wilt was considered the greatest shot blocker of his era.

Yep...he was a lazy cherry-picker alright.

Well, it's clear evidence that Wilt instilled the fear of God into even the likes of Kareem and Russell, leading them to miss shots that he wasn't even guarding.

MIAT gonna MIAT.
(=most intimidating of all time)

[Euroleague]

Pretty amazing considering that Wilt routinely ran away with rebounding titles. Or the fact that he was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons (and the award was not given until near the end of his career.) Or that he held Nate Thurmond to a .360 FG% in their career H2H's; or Russell to .382 in their career H2H's; or Kareem to .464 in their career H2H's. Or that Wilt was considered the greatest shot blocker of his era.

Yep...he was a lazy cherry-picker alright.

That, and/or the refs did not call him for fouls he was constantly committing. Just like how Team USA commits about 30 fouls on every defensive possession, and the refs almost always let them get away with it.

Then again, you would have to have an IQ over 65, to be able to grasp that. Obviously, you don't.

[DaRkJaWs]

That, and/or the refs did not call him for fouls he was constantly committing. Just like how Team USA commits about 30 fouls on every defensive possession, and the refs almost always let them get away with it.

Then again, you would have to have an IQ over 65, to be able to grasp that. Obviously, you don't.
Read my comment from a few pages ago, then either respond to that or shut ur ass up

[Euroleague]

Read my comment from a few pages ago, then either respond to that or shut ur ass up

https://media1.giphy.com/media/4BXKwKrbZxVNm/200.gif