Are the Chinese the GOAT civilization?

[ISHGoat]

They have basically existed and grown as a stable state/culture for over 4000-5000 years. Do any others come close?

[NumberSix]

Obviously not.

[fiddy]

OP=chinese?

In that line of thought Egypt is great as well

[MMKM]

I just had Panda Express chow mein last night. Tasty but not GOAT worthy

[9erempiree]

If they are not GOAT than they are pretty close to it.....in no particular order:

Romans
Chinese
Egyptians


They are the only people that Muslims fear. Nobody dares flock to China and they have great cities too.

Everyone seems to eat Chinese food and love it. It's like part of the world's diet. They basically invented Italian cuisine too.

[gigantes]

"stable" is a questionable word for them, since they went through long periods of civil war and were conquered by outsiders who held the natives as second-class citizens. not to mention, right now they are falling apart in several directions. environmentally it's a disaster over there with few solutions on the horizon.

OTOH yeah, historically they are a fascinating culture deserving of much study. i'd love to visit one of the non-polluted places with interesting sites and art to see, assuming any are left.

[fiddy]

Romans

:wtf:

[Nick Young]

They definitely have a good case.


I'd say America is the GOAT civilization though.

We went to the moon and split the atom.

No other civ has really done anything that can compare to those two achievements.

[9erempiree]

Roman civilization was pretty good even though they stole a lot of things from the Greeks. I studied architecture briefly which goes into detail about their buildings, structures and art. They stole from them but refined a lot of things.

Their aqueduct system is something to marvel at though.

[Akrazotile]

"Chinese" wasn't really a single civilization though, in the old days. Not in the way Sumer, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. were. I'm pretty sure it was a bunch of separate states all existing in the region now known as China, with just enough cultural similarities for us to kind of tie them all together based on our western ways of looking at it. But I don't think there was a "Chinese" army back then, and they didn't speak the same language throughout China. It was a whole bunch of principalities that had languages and armies fighting against each other. But between all of them together they did innovate a ton of shit.

[Nick Young]

Roman civilization was pretty good even though they stole a lot of things from the Greeks. I studied architecture briefly which goes into detail about their buildings, structures and art. They stole from them but refined a lot of things.

Their aqueduct system is something to marvel at though.
Every single civilization in existence "stole" or built on, discoveries of previous civilizations.


Maybe the Ur people in Mesopotamia have a case for GOAThood, considering they were the first to start the civilization craze in the first place.

[MMKM]

I think it depends on how you define GOAT. If greatest means oldest then sure. If greatest means greatest, it's hard to call China great. This is a communist nation that has had to use its military to massacre its own citizens for protesting their human rights violations. If slave labor, religious intolerance, murdering babies to keep your own population in check, and killing your own people who protest is a success story, then I guess China is the GOAT? Kind of depends on your interpretation I guess...

[ISHGoat]

They definitely have a good case.


I'd say America is the GOAT civilization though.

We went to the moon and split the atom.

No other civ has really done anything that can compare to those two achievements.

America has a good case too

[senelcoolidge]

China probably is the GOAT civilization. It's more than 4,000 years old as a state. The earliest Dynasty was formed more than 4,000 years ago. From than on it's been very innovative. They had standardized writing and money. Invented the wheel barrow, seismograph, kite, umbrella, gun powder, the flame thrower, and so many other things and this was thousands of years ago. Advancements in art, music, mathematics, cuisine, and more. Sure they had periods when they were conquered or when minority groups (non Han) held power but they all added something to what modern China is today.

For only being 239 years old the U.S. has done more than other civilizations have done in centuries.

[theballerFKA Ace]

How many different nations have enslaved the Chinese? They certainly aren't known for their military prowess.

[Nick Young]

They had Cho Ko Nus bro.


That's true though, seems like they're always getting invaded by everyone XD

[NumberSix]

The idea that it could be anything other than western civilization is a record level of facepalm. People are actually sitting in their modern western homes, using their computers to communicate on the Internet marvelling over how some other civilization invented a fcuking wheel-barrow.

[KingBeasley08]

They def have a case. Lot of the Ancient Chinese were alpha as fck. Modern Americans also have that same clutch gene which puts us in the same stratosphere

[artex]

Well they made gunpowder so I'd have to say no . .

Sumerians created our OG writing system and the wheel (+plow?)

[StephHamann]

They have basically existed and grown as a stable state/culture for over 4000-5000 years. Do any others come close?

Weak dick game

[LJJ]

"Chinese" wasn't really a single civilization though, in the old days. Not in the way Sumer, Egypt, Greece, Rome etc. were. I'm pretty sure it was a bunch of separate states all existing in the region now known as China, with just enough cultural similarities for us to kind of tie them all together based on our western ways of looking at it. But I don't think there was a "Chinese" army back then, and they didn't speak the same language throughout China. It was a whole bunch of principalities that had languages and armies fighting against each other. But between all of them together they did innovate a ton of shit.

Lol no. It's the exact opposite. The stereotypical western ways of looking at it is exactly what you are doing now, saying that Chinese history is in some way "lesser" and not a real single civilisation like ancient Egypt or ancient Greece (wat).

Chinese themselves are very proud of their supposed 5000 year history and will always view it and explain it as such.


I don't know about "greatest", but Chinese history and civilisation is very cool.

[tomtucker]

https://drstevebest.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/cats-cages-tianjin-china.jpg?w=640
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http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2011-04-05-catref.jpg

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http://www.peta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/7144.CREDIT_5F00_Oikeutta_5F00_El_E400_imille_5F00 _sad_5F00_animal.jpg
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http://www.libertes-internets.net/archives/images/dogs/trg_011.jpg
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[fiddy]

Pork, Chicken, Dog, whats the difference?

[tomtucker]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c8/36/33/c836332e0f24ec5279f98b9ad95e40be.jpg
.
https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5014/5469627542_7b435cc3c6.jpg
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http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/wp-content/uploads/medicine-3.jpg
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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9d/a6/30/9da6308f261dc0dce39c557c1ee744a2.jpg

Bile bear
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bile_bear
.

[tomtucker]

Pork, Chicken, Dog, whats the difference?
http://blog.clickgratis.com.br/uploads/d/debora65/318269.jpg

[tomtucker]

To OP..... no.... they are the opposite of civilization

[iamgine]

They have basically existed and grown as a stable state/culture for over 4000-5000 years. Do any others come close?
Stable for 5000 years? Don't they change dynasties every few hundred years and was constantly in civil wars?

[StephHamann]

Stable for 5000 years? Don't they change dynasties every few hundred years and was constantly in civil wars?

Yup and they were completly irrelevant from around 1600-1980. So basically they provided next to nothing to our modern lifestyle other than cheap labour in the last 30 years.

[senelcoolidge]

http://www.libertes-internets.net/archives/images/dogs/trg_011.jpg
.

Damn, how do they pack so many dogs in a cage like that. That takes mathematics, physics, and anatomy/physiology. Chinese are GOAT.

[BlazerRed]

I just had Panda Express chow mein last night. Tasty but not GOAT worthy
:oldlol: gotta love Panda Express. King of decent but not great fast-food.

[Akrazotile]

Lol no. It's the exact opposite. The stereotypical western ways of looking at it is exactly what you are doing now, saying that Chinese history is in some way "lesser" and not a real single civilisation like ancient Egypt or ancient Greece (wat).

Chinese themselves are very proud of their supposed 5000 year history and will always view it and explain it as such.


I don't know about "greatest", but Chinese history and civilisation is very cool.


Chinese =/= Shang, Zhou, etc.

China is a broad region, which had many factions which were often ununified. It would be like claiming "Scandanavia" was a civilization under the Vikings. Yes, people LIVED in civilizations there and had common cultural ties, but it wasnt one large empire/country kind of thing. Egypt had a single ruler. Rome had a united army. Babylon had a single (main) language. That's the distinction I'm making versus places like ancient china or scandanavia. Those are large regions with much looser central rule. So yeah, theyre def civilizations, but I guess I was interpreting the question (perhaps incorrectly) as more like a unified kingdom/empire like the Mongols, Byzantines, whatever. Those types of kingdoms existed WITHIN China at different periods. But "China" was not really an empire or a single civilization. IMO.

[LJJ]

Chinese =/= Shang, Zhou, etc.

China is a broad region, which had many factions which were often ununified. It would be like claiming "Scandanavia" was a civilization under the Vikings. Yes, people LIVED in civilizations there and had common cultural ties, but it wasnt one large empire/country kind of thing. Egypt had a single ruler. Rome had a united army. Babylon had a single (main) language. That's the distinction I'm making versus places like ancient china or scandanavia. Those are large regions with much looser central rule. So yeah, theyre def civilizations, but I guess I was interpreting the question (perhaps incorrectly) as more like a unified kingdom/empire like the Mongols, Byzantines, whatever. Those types of kingdoms existed WITHIN China at different periods. But "China" was not really an empire or a single civilization. IMO.

Unified China started with the Qin. It has splintered off and come back together multiple times with different rulers, but it was always the same area with roughly the same overarching, evolving culture, same written language, same tribes.

The same very much goes for Ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt and all the others you mentioned.

Ancient Egypt had many different dynasties and many different capitals and warring factions. Ancient Greece was composed of multiple constantly fluctuating kingdoms. What about Rome going from a small republic to an empire, to an east-west split, etcetera. It's all the same. The only one surviving with such a long history and the same cultural strain is China.

It's really quite arbitrary to call it "A" when the Egyptians or Greeks did it, and then suddenly "B" when China did it. You really think the civilisation we refer to as Ancient Greece continuously had one "united army"? They didn't. And neither did any of the other ones.

[sammichoffate]

I feel like we're the Bill Russell or Kareem of civilizations, all-time winner with longevity in the top 3 but still with visible flaws.

[Akrazotile]

Unified China started with the Qin. It has splintered off and come back together multiple times with different rulers, but it was always the same area with roughly the same overarching, evolving culture, same written language, same tribes.

The same very much goes for Ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt and all the others you mentioned.

Ancient Egypt had many different dynasties and many different capitals and warring factions. Ancient Greece was composed of multiple constantly fluctuating kingdoms. What about Rome going from a small republic to an empire, to an east-west split, etcetera. It's all the same. The only one surviving with such a long history and the same cultural strain is China.

It's really quite arbitrary to call it "A" when the Egyptians or Greeks did it, and then suddenly "B" when China did it. You really think the civilisation we refer to as Ancient Greece continuously had one "united army"? They didn't. And neither did any of the other ones.


Fair enough, and I agree that my view is probably tinged by the way in which western history records itself. It still feels to me like other nations/empires, not even strictly in the west, had more of a concrete "identity" than what you could pin down under the broad label of "Chinese." But I guess it's mostly semantics. The empires/dynasties endemic to China, whether you want to connect them or not connect them under the umbrella of "Chinese" were certainly profoundly influential.