How did Magic Johnson win MVP in 1990?

[JohnnySic]

1.Magic - 22.3 ppg/6.6 rpg/11.5 apg

vs

2. Barkley 25.2/11.5/3.9

3. Jordan - 33.6/6.9/6.3

4. Malone - 31/11.1/2.8

5. Ewing - 28.6/10.9/2.2/4.0 bpg

6. Robinson - 24.3/12/2/3.9 bpg

7. Olajuwon - 24.3/14/2.9/4.6 bpg :eek:

IMO Hakeem was better than all of them.

[aj1987]

1.Magic - 22.3 ppg/6.6 rpg/11.5 apg

vs

2. Barkley 25.2/11.5/3.9

3. Jordan - 33.6/6.9/6.3

4. Malone - 31/11.1/2.8

5. Ewing - 28.6/10.9/2.2/4.0 bpg

6. Robinson - 24.3/12/2/3.9 bpg

7. Olajuwon - 24.3/14/2.9/4.6 bpg :eek:

IMO Hakeem was better than all of them.
The Rockets won 40 something game. The Lakers won 63. Best player on the best team in the league.

[Marchesk]

The Rockets won 40 something game. The Lakers won 63. Best player on the best team in the league.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/LJ1XTfxW60Luw/200_s.gif

But it's fine that Magic won. Everyone knew at that point Jordan was the best in the game, though. They just didn't know whether he would be winning championships.

[GIF REACTION]

The MVP term as we have come to know doesn't always go to the best player

Magic's numbers is nothing to scoff at

[Psileas]

There was a cluster of teams at 50-59 wins and then there were the Lakers going 63-19 (but were 1-2 when Magic was missing). They improved compared to the previous season. Even better, it was his first season without Kareem and, although old Kareem wasn't the force he used to be earlier on, his presence alone was enough to count as "great help" in the minds of some (see: people still arguing that Magic won zero titles without Kareem).
Plus, who knows, maybe there were some voters who might feel that Magic wasn't getting his due in his earlier years (e.g, almost averaging a triple double in '82 and yet getting completely screwed in the MVP voting) and it was payback time for a legend who had won 5 titles as a pretagonist but "only" 2 MVPs, including the one he had won in his previous season. After all, as far as I remember, kblaze had posted texts from that era that showed that it wasn't considered cut and dry that Jordan was the best player in the game, as long as he was still titleless and many preferred Magic over him, although, skill-wise, that was close-to-peak Jordan.

It was still a close race, though, among him, Barkley and Jordan. Barkley got more votes for #1 than anyone. And, if you think Jordan got screwed, see how Hakeem fared: Ended up 7th, 3rd among centers. That was the "quadruple double" version of Hakeem.

[90sgoat]

Was this player voted or media voted?

[JohnnySic]

The Rockets won 40 something game. The Lakers won 63. Best player on the best team in the league.
And then those 63-19 Lakers got jettisoned in the 2nd round by the Kevin Johnson/Mark West Suns in 5 games. But I guess playoffs aren't taken into account.

The equivalent of the Mavs losing to the Warriors in '07 and Dirk winning the MVP. :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

winning mvp =/= best stats

how don't you know this?


And then those 63-19 Lakers got jettisoned in the 2nd round by the Kevin Johnson/Mark West Suns in 5 games. But I guess playoffs aren't taken into account.

The equivalent of the Mavs losing to the Warriors in '07 and Dirk winning the MVP. :oldlol:

:biggums:

hey guy,
the playoffs have nothing to do with a regular-season award.

[chocolatethunder]

I remember this year really well. It was the year I graduated high school. It was thought at the time that Barkley was more deserving and was robbed of an MVP season. He of course got his later with Phoenix but he had an excellent year that year. Magic had a good year too as did everyone else on that list. The way Barkley was playing that year, I really thought he was going to win MVP. He of course got the most first place votes but lost the award.

[Sarcastic]

Ewing gets 29/11 and 4 blocks, and finishes 5th. That's why all MVPs aren't equal. Beating out MJ, Barkley, Malone, and Ewing >>>>> beating out James Haren.

[Pointguard]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/LJ1XTfxW60Luw/200_s.gif

But it's fine that Magic won. Everyone knew at that point Jordan was the best in the game, though. They just didn't know whether he would be winning 20.
This is not true. Look at the many people on this board that said Dirk was the best player in 2011 and his stats were 23 and 7 as a power forward. There were no questions at that time that Magic could not address. Jordan was a great scorer like Durant who was never surely ahead of Lebron or now Curry. Jordan wasn't quite there yet.

[Legends66NBA7]

Best record in the league and Magic had ATG stats.

What's the problem ?

[Marchesk]

This is not true. Look at the many people on this board that said Dirk was the best player in 2011 and his stats were 23 and 7 as a power forward. There were no questions at that time that Magic could not address. Jordan was a great scorer like Durant who was never surely ahead of Lebron or now Curry. Jordan wasn't quite there yet.

I watched back then, and everyone agreed that Jordan was the greater individual player over Bird and Magic, it was just a question of whether he could lead a team to the championship. If they were giving Magic the MVP because they thought he was a superior teammate, then fine. But we found out Jordan could be just as good a championship leader as Magic & Bird. Difference was early on his teams were a lot worse, and there was no Phil, no Tex Winter and no triangle. At this point, the Bulls were still forming into a championship team.

It does help that Magic and Bird had everything in place for them to do well right off the bat. For some reason, that was kind of held against MJ before the Bulls won a championship.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Record+stats+impact...

You're acting like it's all about them stats or something? Or if it ever was?
:rolleyes:
Just no...

Magic had amazing stats, let's not kid ourselves though, combined with his impact being ridiculous out there (mostly offensively) and his team having the best record.

Not even saying few others couldn't have won it that year though...

[feyki]

Barkley had more first place votes than Magic's at that voting . Really interesting .

[Marchesk]

Would have made for a fun ISH debate.

[jlip]

There was a cluster of teams at 50-59 wins and then there were the Lakers going 63-19 (but were 1-2 when Magic was missing). They improved compared to the previous season. Even better, it was his first season without Kareem and, although old Kareem wasn't the force he used to be earlier on, his presence alone was enough to count as "great help" in the minds of some (see: people still arguing that Magic won zero titles without Kareem).
Plus, who knows, maybe there were some voters who might feel that Magic wasn't getting his due in his earlier years (e.g, almost averaging a triple double in '82 and yet getting completely screwed in the MVP voting) and it was payback time for a legend who had won 5 titles as a pretagonist but "only" 2 MVPs, including the one he had won in his previous season. After all, as far as I remember, kblaze had posted texts from that era that showed that it wasn't considered cut and dry that Jordan was the best player in the game, as long as he was still titleless and many preferred Magic over him, although, skill-wise, that was close-to-peak Jordan.

It was still a close race, though, among him, Barkley and Jordan. Barkley got more votes for #1 than anyone. And, if you think Jordan got screwed, see how Hakeem fared: Ended up 7th, 3rd among centers. That was the "quadruple double" version of Hakeem.


This

[OnFire]

11.5 Assists per game stands out more than 14 rebounds per game. Even if you ignore the Lakers having the best record in the league the year after KAJ.

[JohnnySic]

Best record in the league and Magic had ATG stats.

What's the problem ?
Lifetime achievement award. Magic was not better than Barkley, MJ, and Hakeem that year.

[FKAri]

Honestly, probably the best era of superstars the league has ever seen.

[T_L_P]

63 wins without Kareem and great numbers?

[Legends66NBA7]

Lifetime achievement award. Magic was not better than Barkley, MJ, and Hakeem that year.

MVP doesn't always go to the best player, nor is it the set criteria.


It has for majority of the cases been great stats + the best team.

[ArbitraryWater]

Read up onthat year, Barkley was notoriously robbed, only non MVP with the most first place votes ever, but bias kept him off other sheets at all.

[dubeta]

Didn't he also get AIDS that year? It's a fair trade off I presume

[AirFederer]

Didn't he also get AIDS that year? It's a fair trade off I presume
:facepalm :rant

[Pointguard]

I watched back then, and everyone agreed that Jordan was the greater individual player over Bird and Magic, it was just a question of whether he could lead a team to the championship. If they were giving Magic the MVP because they thought he was a superior teammate, then fine. But we found out Jordan could be just as good a championship leader as Magic & Bird. Difference was early on his teams were a lot worse, and there was no Phil, no Tex Winter and no triangle. At this point, the Bulls were still forming into a championship team.

It does help that Magic and Bird had everything in place for them to do well right off the bat. For some reason, that was kind of held against MJ before the Bulls won a championship.
Who is it that it wasn't held against? You see the Wilt threads here. And Jordan was never that dominant over his peers before '90. That's the standard. And has always been that way til this day. Durant will end up 31ppg with 8 boards and crazy efficiency but he isn't going to surpass Curry and Lebron in the RS.

[jlip]

GM Survey from April, 1990

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234898

[Young X]

This year is Magic Johnson's true peak as a player to me.

And I think this season is probably the best ever for individual star play. Look at all the monster seasons those guys were having.

[mehyaM24]

Lifetime achievement award. Magic was not better than Barkley, MJ, and Hakeem that year.

magic was better than EVERY player that season, save for jordan.

ended the playoffs with b2b games of:
43/10/6 on 69%TS
43/8/7 on 65%TS

:eek:

dude was the MVP that year, leading the lakers, without kareem, to a 63-19 record. :bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

This year is Magic Johnson's true peak as a player to me.

And I think this season is probably the best ever for individual star play. Look at all the monster seasons those guys were having.

btw, thx for the reply, I'll try to respond this weekend!

[HurricaneKid]

And, if you think Jordan got screwed, see how Hakeem fared: Ended up 7th, 3rd among centers. That was the "quadruple double" version of Hakeem.

It was also the version of Dream where his team was the 8 seed only because of a tie break with the 9 seed. No MVP has ever come from an 8 seed before.

This Dream love has got to slow down.

Robinson led the Spurs to the 2 seed after they were a 21 win team the previous year. And this was, without a doubt Ewing's best season: 28.6/10.9/2.2/4.0 on .551 from the field. And the Knicks were a lot better than the Rockets.

[ClipperRevival]

I thought Barkley deserved it. But he wasn't exactly buddy buddy with the media so Magic got the nod. Not that Magic wasn't deserving but i thought Barkley should've gotten it.

[aau]

where does this ridiculousness come from

only 2 players in LH has avg 22/6/11

each did it just 3 times:

Oscar 30/12/11 in 1962

[ClipperRevival]

Oh, and before MJ won his first title, there were many people who criticized him. He was that great individual talent who couldn't win. So while most of the world accepted he was the best player, he was always held a level below Magic/Bird because those guys won.

I know right now, it's easy for people to think that MJ rode on white clouds from heaven and was instantly accepted as the GOAT. But that is simply not true. He had to climb a big mountain. And having witnessed him rise to the top is why I appreciate him more. Nothing wasn given to him. He had to take it. He had to hear for years that yeah, he was a great scorer but he couldn't win. And when he faced the Lakers in 1991, he unleashed hell on those poor Lakers. Lol.

[JohnnySic]

Maybe Larry Bird should have gotten some consideration?

24.3/9.5/7.5 with his bad back, and .930 (!) from the free throw line. :oldlol:

[JohnnySic]

Its nuts how many players had huge years that season. That had to be the peak of that "greatest generation". :applause: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

how did jordan win mvp in 1988

[dubeta]

how did jordan win mvp in 1988

how did kobe win in 2008

[kennethgriffin]

how did kobe win in 2008


the general criteria


jordans 1988 mvp is more along the lines of kobes 03/06/07/13 seasons



the criteria that kobe won with in 2008 was the one i dont even agree with.

[dubeta]

the general criteria


jordans 1988 mvp is more along the lines of kobes 03/06/07/13 seasons



the criteria that kobe won with in 2008 was the one i dont even agree with.

Except you need to atleast be a 1st option on a 50 win team for consideration



Thats the minimum criteria everyone agrees on

So that eliminates 03/06/07/13



And cp3 deserves 2008

[Round Mound]

Sir Charles deserved it in relation to level teamates and since playing in a tougher conference.

[ClipperRevival]

Its nuts hoe many players had huge years that season. That had to be the peak of that "greatest generation". :applause: :bowdown:

GOAT generation of basketball when you consider top tier teams, top tier superstars, how the game was played (fundamentals, post game, footwork) and just the best form of basketball to watch (physicality resulting in REAL rivalries). Guys today are too buddy buddy. When you step on the court, your goal should be to rip out the heart of your opponent, not go out to dinner after the game. The rules back then allowed you to do that. The game is great today but just too soft. Not due to the players being soft but because the rules FORCE them to be. I just miss that tough brand of ball where you had to meet the physicality of your opponent or get run over.

[Round Mound]

GOAT generation of basketball when you consider top tier teams, top tier superstars, how the game was played (fundamentals, post game, footwork) and just the best form of basketball to watch (physicality resulting in REAL rivalries). Guys today are too buddy buddy. When you step on the court, your goal should be to rip out the heart of your opponent, not go out to dinner after the game. The rules back then allowed you to do that. The game is great today but just too soft. Not due to the players being soft but because the rules FORCE them to be. I just miss that tough brand of ball where you had to meet the physicality of your opponent or get run over.

80s and early 90s...GOAT ERAs :applause: :bowdown: :rockon: :pimp:

[Sportal]

Wow... Wonder if we'll ever see a MVP race with those kinda numbers ever again...