ISIS obtains authentic passport machine in Syria

[MMKM]

Trumps proposal starting to make more sense?.......
(Maybe not his over simplified plan itself, but the overall concept?)

[DrakeTheSnake]

You are scared of a passport machine? Of course they can make fake passports. You can find a guy in any city that can make fake IDs. :facepalm

[LJJ]

I mean, IS and the"Al-Qaeda-Islamic Front-FSA" moderate rebels have some big Syrian cities under their control. What makes you think they didn't have passport machines?

Here is the Syrian passport of the Dutch prime minister:

http://i.imgur.com/TN2AEdO.png

A journalist had it made on the black market in south eastern Turkey (could be IS, could be the other rebels) with official Syrian equipment. They go for roughly $800 a pop.


You are scared of a passport machine? Of course they can make fake passports. You can find a guy in any city that can make fake IDs. :facepalm

The difference is that these are real passports. Not fake IDs made to fool the door guy at Moe's around the corner.

[oarabbus]

You are scared of a passport machine? Of course they can make fake passports. You can find a guy in any city that can make fake IDs. :facepalm


A fake ID isn't a fake passport, please tell me you are joking

[MMKM]

You are scared of a passport machine? Of course they can make fake passports. You can find a guy in any city that can make fake IDs. :facepalm

Why do people jump at the opportunity to facepalm and write something completely wrong with no knowledge of the subject?

This isn't a novelty passport that looks real, it's an actual passport. You know, with an encrypted RFID microchip with all your personal data that pops up on a computer when they swipe it?

I swear to god if ISIS got their hands on our nuke codes there would be someone on this forum who would facepalm and say "you think that's a big deal? Boy are you stupid"

Facepalm to YOU

[DrakeTheSnake]

The difference is that these are real passports. Not fake IDs made to fool the door guy at Moe's around the corner.

TSA isn't much better. I have had bars accuse my real ID of being fake and not letting me through, while I get through TSA no problem. One way of looking at that is TSA being more accurate, but the other way is they are less strict. They aren't doing anything other than looking at the ID under a black light. Not that hard to trick them, they aren't rocket scientists.

Heck, studies have shown that TSA is pretty much completely inadequate at preventing bombs from going through security. It is all meant to make people feel safe, but they repeatedly fail inspections.

[DrakeTheSnake]

A fake ID isn't a fake passport, please tell me you are joking

A passport is a form of ID, please tell me you are joking. My point was that there are people that can fabricate all forms of ID, including a passport.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Why do people jump at the opportunity to facepalm and write something completely wrong with no knowledge of the subject?

This isn't a novelty passport that looks real, it's an actual passport. You know, with an encrypted RFID microchip with all your personal data that pops up on a computer when they swipe it?

I swear to god if ISIS got their hands on our nuke codes there would be someone on this forum who would facepalm and say "you think that's a big deal? Boy are you stupid"

Facepalm to YOU
I have left the country without my passport being swiped, just looked at.

[MMKM]

TSA isn't much better. I have had bars accuse my real ID of being fake and not letting me through, while I get through TSA no problem. One way of looking at that is TSA being more accurate, but the other way is they are less strict. They aren't doing anything other than looking at the ID under a black light. Not that hard to trick them, they aren't rocket scientists.

Heck, studies have shown that TSA is pretty much completely inadequate at preventing bombs from going through security. It is all meant to make people feel safe, but they repeatedly fail inspections.

So TSA could spot a real ID while your local bar couldn't? I guess that proves your point....

[Nick Young]

You are scared of a passport machine? Of course they can make fake passports. You can find a guy in any city that can make fake IDs. :facepalm
It is the official Syrian passport machine, dumbass. Passports made on it will look exactly the same as passports from legal refugees.


It will be impossible to tell they're fake, because they won't be fake!

[NumberSix]

A passport is a form of ID, please tell me you are joking. My point was that there are people that can fabricate all forms of ID, including a passport.
These aren't FAKE passports. This isn't a machine that makes counterfeit passports. They got their hands on the government's machines that make the real ones.

[DrakeTheSnake]

So TSA could spot a real ID while your local bar couldn't? I guess that proves your point....
Way to ignore the other part of the post in which TSA has been shown to be completely incompetent.

[MMKM]

I have left the country without my passport being swiped, just looked at.

That's probably because you don't fit the profile of a terrorist. Facepalm again.

[DrakeTheSnake]

These aren't FAKE passports. This isn't a machine that makes counterfeit passports. They got their hands on the government's machines that make the real ones.
I understand that. But whether they are real or fake, the good fakes get into the country just as easily, so it doesn't matter.

[DrakeTheSnake]

That's probably because you don't fit the profile of a terrorist. Facepalm again.

So, you are saying that the only thing they are good at is profiling. Facepalm to you.

[MMKM]

TSA isn't much better. I have had bars accuse my real ID of being fake and not letting me through, while I get through TSA no problem. One way of looking at that is TSA being more accurate, but the other way is they are less strict. They aren't doing anything other than looking at the ID under a black light. Not that hard to trick them, they aren't rocket scientists.

Heck, studies have shown that TSA is pretty much completely inadequate at preventing bombs from going through security. It is all meant to make people feel safe, but they repeatedly fail inspections.

What is your point of all this anyway? So you're saying TSA makes mistakes, so therefore it isn't a big deal that ISIS can authenticate as many fake passports as they want now? What kind of stupid logic is that?

[Nick Young]

I understand that. But whether they are real or fake, the good fakes get into the country just as easily, so it doesn't matter.
You're ****ing stupid if you think this doesn't matter.

The Syrian government is ****ing stupid for allowing this to happen.

[NumberSix]

I understand that. But whether they are real or fake, the good fakes get into the country just as easily, so it doesn't matter.
Only if they don't check the authenticity of the passports. The best a fake passport can do is that they might just look at it and not check if its actually real. If they do check it, they will see that it's fake, just like the Syrians in Mexico and Venezuela who got busted with fake Syrian passports.

With these, even if they check the authenticity, they'll still get through, because they are authentic.

[MMKM]

You're ****ing stupid if you think this doesn't matter.

The Syrian government is ****ing stupid for allowing this to happen.

So back to my original question, is the Muslim ban a better idea now that there is no way to reliably differentiate between a "good Muslim" and a terrorist based on their passport? Doesn't it make the whole process that much more complicated?

[DrakeTheSnake]

What is your point of all this anyway? So you're saying TSA makes mistakes, so therefore it isn't a big deal that ISIS can authenticate as many fake passports as they want now? What kind of stupid logic is that?
My point is that they already could make fake passports and get into the US, so this changes nothing. The incompetence of TSA is one of the reasons why they could get in and it changes nothing.

[DrakeTheSnake]

So back to my original question, is the Muslim ban a better idea now that there is no way to reliably differentiate between a "good Muslim" and a terrorist based on their passport? Doesn't it make the whole process that much more complicated?
You also can't tell the difference between a good Christian and a bad Christian. Should we just stop all travel to the US altogether?

[LJJ]

My point is that they already could make fake passports and get into the US, so this changes nothing. The incompetence of TSA is one of the reasons why they could get in and it changes nothing.

Good luck getting into the US with a fake passport from a destination that's already considered high risk. It happens, but it's really not nearly as easy or as prevalent as you make it sound.

[NumberSix]

You also can't tell the difference between a good Christian and a bad Christian. Should we just stop all travel to the US altogether?
No, just Muslims. Christian terrorism isn't a thing. I have no interest in pretending that it is just for the sake of not "singling out" Muslims.

[MMKM]

You also can't tell the difference between a good Christian and a bad Christian. Should we just stop all travel to the US altogether?

Ok, you just made it official. That statement pretty much invalidates anything you have ever said or wrote on ISH or your whole life. Done debating you. You're fired.

[TripleA]

What's point of banning all Muslims.
Why not just people from Iraq and Syria.

[TripleA]

How can even prove someone is a Muslim they can just say their atheist.

[MMKM]

What's point of banning all Muslims.
Why not just people from Iraq and Syria.

Where was that woman from who just shot everybody?

[TripleA]

Where was that woman from who just shot everybody?

Pakistan.

[MMKM]

Pakistan.

That's weird, I thought Muslim terrorists only came from Iraq and Syria

[TripleA]

So how can you prove someone is Muslim again.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Good luck getting into the US with a fake passport from a destination that's already considered high risk. It happens, but it's really not nearly as easy or as prevalent as you make it sound.
That is why they don't go directly from those destinations :hammerhead:

[DrakeTheSnake]

Ok, you just made it official. That statement pretty much invalidates anything you have ever said or wrote on ISH or your whole life. Done debating you. You're fired.
Says the guy supporting Trump's plan.

[MMKM]

So how can you prove someone is Muslim again.

Well for one reason, because it's against their religion to denounce their faith. So for the same reason a radical Muslim will kill a bunch of innocent people, it's the same crazy devoutness that will give them away.

In addition to that, racial profiling and a polygraph would be a good start. If we don't have the capacity to polygraph that many Muslims in a timely fashion, tough sh!t, wait your turn or go back.

[LJJ]

So how can you prove someone is Muslim again.

Actually very many Muslim countries require citizens to officially register their religion, so at least for people from those countries it would be very easy to require proof of which religion they belong to. This doesn't cover all Muslims, but a very good portion of them.

Not that I would be in favor of that. The state registering people's religion, that's barbaric to me.

[LJJ]

That is why they don't go directly from those destinations :hammerhead:

This is just not a real thing you are arguing for. It's not easy for a foreigner to enter the US with a fake passport, not at all.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Well for one reason, because it's against their religion to denounce their faith. So for the same reason a radical Muslim will kill a bunch of innocent people, it's the same crazy devoutness that will give them away.

In addition to that, racial profiling and a polygraph would be a good start. If we don't have the capacity to polygraph that many Muslims in a timely fashion, tough sh!t, wait your turn or go back.

Facepalm again.

The ones who kill in the name of their faith tend to believe that lying is acceptable if it is for the betterment of Islam, so they can freely lie if they believe killing Americans is for their faith.

Also, polygraphs are pseudoscience. They measure heart rate, sweating, and other autonomic nervous responses, not whether somebody is telling a truth or lie.

[TripleA]

Well for one reason, because it's against their religion to denounce their faith. So for the same reason a radical Muslim will kill a bunch of innocent people, it's the same crazy devoutness that will give them away.

In addition to that, racial profiling and a polygraph would be a good start. If we don't have the capacity to polygraph that many Muslims in a timely fashion, tough sh!t, wait your turn or go back.

You know Isis recruits white westerners too.
So by your plan they could get through Into America .

[MMKM]

Facepalm again.

The ones who kill in the name of their faith tend to believe that lying is acceptable if it is for the betterment of Islam, so they can freely lie if they believe killing Americans is for their faith.

Also, polygraphs are pseudoscience. They measure heart rate, sweating, and other autonomic nervous responses, not whether somebody is telling a truth or lie.

Maybe you should quit while you're behind. Again you are way off base. Polygraphs are extremely effective for detecting the physiological reactions to lying. They are used to hire police officers, FBI agents, CIA etc. At this point they are essentially tamper proof and right 100% of the time. The way to beat the polygraph are the pseudo-science. They don't actually work. Coming from a police family I know this but I'm sure you know more.

[MMKM]

You know Isis recruits white westerners too.
So by your plan they could get through Into America .

I'll take my chances and try to eliminate the other 99%

[oarabbus]

Maybe you should quit while you're behind. Again you are way off base. Polygraphs are extremely effective for detecting the physiological reactions to lying. They are used to hire police officers, FBI agents, CIA etc. At this point they are essentially tamper proof and right 100% of the time. The way to beat the polygraph are the pseudo-science. They don't actually work. Coming from a police family I know this but I'm sure you know more.


Nah issues with polygraphs are well documented, and there are proven techniques to beat them that a criminal can use

[NumberSix]

So how can you prove someone is Muslim again.
It's not hard to pick out the Christians from the Muslims. If someone says they're a christian, ask them what church they go to and what community they live in. If the people from that church and community are like "oh yeah, we know that guy. He's a Christian" then it's probably pretty sure that he's not a Muslim.

Also, if you have some guy with a name like Mohammed Al-Ahmed Bin Muhammad, it's safe to say he's not a Christian.

[MMKM]

Nah issues with polygraphs are well documented, and there are proven techniques to beat them that a criminal can use

Yeah and anyone who has been trained to administer a polygraph is aware of those countermeasure techniques. Again, coming from someone who knows polygraph analysts, they always work. Occasionally results are "inconclusive." That's as far as it goes problem-wise. So if a polygraph for a Muslim immigrant is only as good as "inconclusive," send them back. Simple as that

[NumberSix]

You know Isis recruits white westerners too.
So by your plan they could get through Into America .
Translation: "you can't catch 100% of them, so you shouldn't try to catch any of them."

[TripleA]

Also wouldn't be a huge waste of time, resources and money to try to catch all Muslims instead of stopping the terrorists. I know all muzzies are dirty terrorists and we should eradicate them.

[Jameerthefear]

Also wouldn't be a huge waste of time, resources and money to try to catch all Muslims instead of stopping the terrorists. I know all muzzies are dirty terrorists and we should eradicate them.
then maybe ban all of them

[TripleA]

then maybe ban all of them

How would you execute that plan young jameer?

[TripleA]

Honestly we should just kill every Muslim that try's to come into America.

[ArbitraryWater]

I understand that. But whether they are real or fake, the good fakes get into the country just as easily, so it doesn't matter.

God you are dumb

[DrakeTheSnake]

Maybe you should quit while you're behind. Again you are way off base. Polygraphs are extremely effective for detecting the physiological reactions to lying. They are used to hire police officers, FBI agents, CIA etc. At this point they are essentially tamper proof and right 100% of the time. The way to beat the polygraph are the pseudo-science. They don't actually work. Coming from a police family I know this but I'm sure you know more.
You are so far off base. Not even close. And of course this bigot comes from a police family. Just perfect. Society is in great hands.

[DrakeTheSnake]

It's not hard to pick out the Christians from the Muslims. If someone says they're a christian, ask them what church they go to and what community they live in. If the people from that church and community are like "oh yeah, we know that guy. He's a Christian" then it's probably pretty sure that he's not a Muslim.

Also, if you have some guy with a name like Mohammed Al-Ahmed Bin Muhammad, it's safe to say he's not a Christian.

Christians have very poor church attendance. So now not only do you have to identify as Christian, but you must be active in a church? Luckily, NumberSix is an obvious troll account.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Honestly we should just kill every Muslim that try's to come into America.

Switch the words Muslim to Christian and America to [insert country ISIS is stationed in], and you sound just like ISIS.

[MMKM]

Translation: "you can't catch 100% of them, so you shouldn't try to catch any of them."

Thank you. That encapsulates the whole argument for the other side :applause:

[DrakeTheSnake]

God you are dumb

You think ISIS wasn't resourceful enough to figure out ways of getting into the US without an authentic passport machine?

[MMKM]

Switch the words Muslim to Christian and America to [insert country ISIS is stationed in], and you sound just like ISIS.

He's on your side he's being sarcastic.:facepalm
I'm glad facepalms don't cost money or I'd break the bank on you

[DrakeTheSnake]

Translation: "you can't catch 100% of them, so you shouldn't try to catch any of them."

I'm sorry, are we getting into the gun debate?

[Jameerthefear]

How would you execute that plan young jameer?
what is there to execute? i would literally just ban all refugees

[TripleA]

Would Mirza Teletovic be deported if the plan is put in place?
I know he is a dirty muzzie but I need those fantasy points.

[DrakeTheSnake]

He's on your side he's being sarcastic.:facepalm
I'm glad facepalms don't cost money or I'd break the bank on you
I thought you were done responding to me anyway. :facepalm

[MMKM]

You are so far off base. Not even close. And of course this bigot comes from a police family. Just perfect. Society is in great hands.

There's that B word again. Name calling; the last resort of someone with no argument left to make :applause:

[DrakeTheSnake]

There's that B word again. Name calling; the last resort of someone with no argument left to make :applause:
You were the one that actually said the incorrect stuff about polygraphs :lol

And complaining about somebody calling somebody a bigot: the real last resort.

Please, continue the debate you so firmly said you were done with but returned to anyway.

[MMKM]

You are so far off base. Not even close. And of course this bigot comes from a police family. Just perfect. Society is in great hands.

Sounds like you have a bigger issue with police families than you do with terrorism. Showing your TRUE COLORS. :applause:

[oarabbus]

It's not hard to pick out the Christians from the Muslims. If someone says they're a christian, ask them what church they go to and what community they live in. If the people from that church and community are like "oh yeah, we know that guy. He's a Christian" then it's probably pretty sure that he's not a Muslim.

Also, if you have some guy with a name like Mohammed Al-Ahmed Bin Muhammad, it's safe to say he's not a Christian.


That's quite frankly a plain awful idea. First of all, a significant portion of Christians are not frequent churchgoers. And the manpower and resources it would take to enact this plan is absurd.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Sounds like you have a bigger issue with police families than you do with terrorism. Showing your TRUE COLORS. :applause:

No, I have a problem with racists, particularly if they are in positions of authority and will use lethal force without proper consequences. I actually support the idea of tax increases to increase police training and police access to non-lethal weapons such as tasers. Unfortunately, conservatives who claim to support police forces aren't willing to financially support the police they claim to back.

[TripleA]

Honestly trump doesn't actually believe anything he says he is just playing to the masses.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/incoming/article614631.ece/ALTERNATES/g3l/Akoya_Damac_83.jpg

[MMKM]

No, I have a problem with racists, particularly if they are in positions of authority and will use lethal force without proper consequences. I actually support the idea of tax increases to increase police training and police access to non-lethal weapons such as tasers. Unfortunately, conservatives who claim to support police forces aren't willing to financially support the police they claim to back.

Yes, that's what police need and want. A taser. So when they have to storm a building against criminals with AR 15s they can go in with a bean bag gun and a taser. You really have a great grasp on what resources the police are lacking:facepalm

[MMKM]

You were the one that actually said the incorrect stuff about polygraphs :lol

And complaining about somebody calling somebody a bigot: the real last resort.

Please, continue the debate you so firmly said you were done with but returned to anyway.

Here's the last thing I'll say about polygraphs and it's the last time I'll say it. After this I'm out.

Polygraphs are extremely effective. For those of you who think they're "junk science" go to your local police station and volunteer to try one. The interrogator will rip you to shreds. They could find out every intimate detail about your life. You could try to step on a thumbtack, or bite your cheek or any other dumb countermeasure you've seen in the movies, and the interrogator sitting right in front of you will catch you and make you look like a friggin idiot for even trying. They are the most effective method for detecting lies in the world. That's why the police use them to screen applicants for informants, the FBI uses them to screen for double agents, and the CIA uses them to screen for international spies. Because they work. But I'm sure it would be a totally ineffective way to catch some dumbass goat herder from Iraq who decided to join ISIS. This is such a dumb discussion I have to leave it. Argue amongst yourselves I'm out.

[oarabbus]

Here's the last thing I'll say about polygraphs and it's the last time I'll say it. After this I'm out.

Polygraphs are extremely effective. For those of you who think they're "junk science" go to your local police station and volunteer to try one. The analyst will rip you to shreds. They could find out every intimate detail about your life. You could try to step on a thumbtack, or bite your cheek or any other dumb countermeasure you've seen in the movies, and the analyst sitting right in front of you will catch you and make you look like a friggin idiot for even trying. They are the most effective method for detecting lies in the world. That's why the police use them to screen applicants for informants, the FBI uses them to screen for double agents, and the CIA uses them to screen for international spies. Because they work. But I'm sure it would be a totally ineffective way to catch some dumbass goat herder from Iraq who decided to join ISIS. This is such a dumb discussion I have to leave it. Argue amongst yourselves I'm out.


Then why are they not always admissible in court?

[andgar923]

They're easy to get in L.A.

Go down to Pacific in Huntington Park and you're set.

[MMKM]

Then why are they not always admissible in court?

Inadmissible because of the fear of the concept of a machine deciding who is guilty or innocent. Has nothing to do with accuracy, it has to do with the radical change it would bring to the whole judicial process. And lastly it should be noted that as effective as polygraphs were when those decisions were made, they are even more exacting today. NOW I'm out

[zoom17]

Bunch of hysteria in this thread.

[NumberSix]

No, I have a problem with racists, particularly if they are in positions of authority and will use lethal force without proper consequences. I actually support the idea of tax increases to increase police training and police access to non-lethal weapons such as tasers. Unfortunately, conservatives who claim to support police forces aren't willing to financially support the police they claim to back.
Or, we could just stop wasting money on things like buying tanks for police departments.

[poido123]

Stop Muslim migrants coming in any means necessary.


Clearly ISIS can exploit migration if it remains the same.


Trump doesn't seem so crazy now :rolleyes:

[poido123]

That's quite frankly a plain awful idea. First of all, a significant portion of Christians are not frequent churchgoers. And the manpower and resources it would take to enact this plan is absurd.


Any means necessary.

There is enough damage already done to take elevated national security precautions.


We cannot allow ISIS to spread and disrupt Western European nations. At some point Islam is deemed a national security threat and measures are placed to ensure all forms of worship, books an practices are banned completely from Western European society.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Yes, that's what police need and want. A taser. So when they have to storm a building against criminals with AR 15s they can go in with a bean bag gun and a taser. You really have a great grasp on what resources the police are lacking:facepalm
No, dumbass, I am not suggesting replacing guns. I'm talking about giving police alternative means to take down suspects when lethality is not necessary. Obviously if criminals have AR 15s the police will have their guns drawn. But if a guy is simply being unruly, they can be taken down without lethal force if the police have the proper resources.

[DrakeTheSnake]

Inadmissible because of the fear of the concept of a machine deciding who is guilty or innocent. Has nothing to do with accuracy, it has to do with the radical change it would bring to the whole judicial process. And lastly it should be noted that as effective as polygraphs were when those decisions were made, they are even more exacting today. NOW I'm out

No, it is because there is no way of proving their validity. It again, it measures autonomic responses of the body, which correlate with lying, but do not proof lying, because increased heart rate, etc. does not equal lying. The inventor of polygraphs himself has pointed out that it is used by authorities to falsely interpret findings. There have been countless studies showing that the validity of the test is flawed. But by all means, don't do any actual ****ing research, just keep telling yourself "but cops use it, it must be valid."

[GIF REACTION]

Honestly trump doesn't actually believe anything he says he is just playing to the masses.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/incoming/article614631.ece/ALTERNATES/g3l/Akoya_Damac_83.jpg
Foreign relations are very important

I fail to see how this picture says anything bad

[DrakeTheSnake]

Foreign relations are very important

I fail to see how this picture says anything bad
I think the point was simply that he believes Trump isn't genuine in his political statements, Trump is just pandering to the lowest common denominator like the OP for votes.

[GIF REACTION]

I think the point was simply that he believes Trump isn't genuine in his political statements, Trump is just pandering to the lowest common denominator like the OP for votes.
I think you should understand what Trump actually says and not what the media headline is

Do the democrats think the same of Jimmy Carter and the Iranian situation

God forbid Teddy Roosevelt and the Japanese

[DrakeTheSnake]

I think you should understand what Trump actually says and not what the media headline is

Do the democrats think the same of Jimmy Carter and the Iranian situation

God forbid Teddy Roosevelt and the Japanese

It is pretty easy to understand. He makes very simple statements that don't offer any specific details.

[HitandRun Reggie]

What's point of banning all Muslims.
Why not just people from Iraq and Syria.

I agree with this. Banning all "Muslims" is stupid. But every country in the middle east, except for Israel, should be temporarily be halted from sending people here to reside as long as extremism is very prevalent there.

[HitandRun Reggie]

2 Syrians arrested today in Geneva. Traces of explosives were found in their vehicle. Is no place safe from these scum?


http://abcnews.go.com/International/syrians-arrested-geneva-terror-charges/story?id=35731441