Back to Africa option

[masonanddixon]

United States implemented this policy in the late 1800s, early 1900s, and mid 1900s but blacks didn't really adjust and wanted back in to America. The most recent destination was Liberia, lol.

But yet blacks are always complaining about wanting more and going back to their roots.

Trump should pay them each or any who chooses to leave America $50,000k to return to Africa and never come back.

[Akrazotile]

United States implemented this policy in the late 1800s, early 1900s, and mid 1900s but blacks didn't really adjust and wanted back in to America. The most recent destination was Liberia, lol.

But yet blacks are always complaining about wanting more and going back to their roots.

Trump should pay them each or any who chooses to leave America $50,000k to return to Africa and never come back.


Ive said this before and it's quite true: If you made this a real thing and required people who committed to it to stick to it and not come back, this would break crowd funding records. You could raise a billion dollars EASY and honestly afford to pay the people who agreed to it a LOT of money. It's honestly something that would seem pretty tempting to consider.

Wouldnt want all the brothas to go. But the dumb ghetto ones who do nothing but get in trouble and blame it on the white man? Just imagine if we rid every city of those dudes. Shit would be unbelievable! Would legit make America great again. And theyd be set for life living on that American cash over in Congo or Zaire.

Seems worth looking into at the least :confusedshrug:

[masonanddixon]

Ive said this before and it's quite true: If you made this a real thing and required people who committed to it to stick to it and not come back, this would break crowd funding records. You could raise a billion dollars EASY and honestly afford to pay the people who agreed to it a LOT of money. It's honestly something that would seem pretty tempting to consider.

Wouldnt want all the brothas to go. But the dumb ghetto ones who do nothing but get in trouble and blame it on the white man? Just imagine if we rid every city of those dudes. Shit would be unbelievable! Would legit make America great again. And theyd be set for life living on that American cash over in Congo or Zaire.

Seems worth looking into at the least :confusedshrug:

Thats what I am saying.

That and sterilisation programs for the stupid, poor, and dangerous. Trump is the only man with the balls to enact it.

Western civilization cannot succeed unless its people have Western principles.

[Akrazotile]

Thats what I am saying.

That and sterilisation programs for the stupid, poor, and dangerous. Trump is the only man with the balls to enact it.

Western civilization cannot succeed unless its people have Western principles.


The problem is dudes like this:

http://data.whicdn.com/images/61275484/large.jpg
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/occupy10.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/qg7fom3gb/Josh_Brinks_Profile_Pictures_Facebook.jpg
http://s4.postimg.org/n0uxwx5n1/internet_liberal_jpg_w_474.jpg
http://greaterseas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/99.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AGJ2zet.png


Who regret success, alphaness, good looks, masculinity, intelligence, independence, etc.

They would actually prevent people who WANTED to accept the offer from doing so, just so that "conservatives dont win."

Dudes are the losers of America and desperately need some kind of purpose to cleave to. Antagonizing normal white Americans is 'their thing.'

Betas have been fruitful and multiplied. Though individually they are society's most impotent losers, together they are strong.

[TheMan]

Another great option would be to pay white trash to leave the US and go back to Europe, would be a lot less mass shootings.

We also wouldn't have to put up with NASCAR and country music :rockon:

[masonanddixon]

The problem is dudes like this:

http://data.whicdn.com/images/61275484/large.jpg
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/occupy10.jpg
http://s7.postimg.org/qg7fom3gb/Josh_Brinks_Profile_Pictures_Facebook.jpg
http://s4.postimg.org/n0uxwx5n1/internet_liberal_jpg_w_474.jpg
http://greaterseas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/99.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AGJ2zet.png


Who regret success, alphaness, good looks, masculinity, intelligence, independence, etc.

They would actually prevent black people who wanted to accept it from doing so, just so that "conservatives dont win."

Dudes are the losers of America and desperately need some kind of purpose to cleave to. Antagonizing normal white Americans is 'their thing.'


Occupy Wall Street was noble in principle but it's actions were misguided and not executed properly. There NEEDS to be an organised, intelligent, and rational movement against Wall Street corruption.

[masonanddixon]

Another great option would be to pay white trash to leave the US and go back to Europe, would be a lot less mass shootings.

We also wouldn't have to put up with NASCAR and country music :rockon:

I would be in favor of this as well, man.

[DonDadda59]

United States implemented this policy in the late 1800s, early 1900s, and mid 1900s but blacks didn't really adjust and wanted back in to America. The most recent destination was Liberia, lol.

But yet blacks are always complaining about wanting more and going back to their roots.

Trump should pay them each or any who chooses to leave America $50,000k to return to Africa and never come back.


You need to do more research, bruh. In the 50s and 60s Liberia had the second highest growth economically on the planet. Under President William Tubman (a descendant of slaves), the country saw a growth of 11-12% annually from 1950-1960. It was seen as a golden age for the country and a model for other countries in the region that were fighting for freedom from colonization.

It wasn't until the Civil Wars started in 1980 that the country went to complete shit.

[masonanddixon]

You need to do more research, bruh. In the 50s and 60s Liberia had the second highest growth economically on the planet. Under President William Tubman (a descendant of slaves), the country saw a growth of 11-12% annually from 1950-1960. It was seen as a golden age for the country and a model for other countries in the region that were fighting for freedom from colonization.

It wasn't until the Civil Wars started in 1980 that the country went to complete shit.

I know, man. It was prosperous then. It's just amusing now though.

It was a valuable port. A beautiful country, really.

[DonDadda59]

I know, man. It was prosperous then. It's just amusing now though.

It was a valuable port. A beautiful country, really.

How is a once prosperous nation, the second fastest growing economy on the planet, and a key ally of the United States being turned into a hell hole because of Civil War 'amusing'? :biggums:

[Akrazotile]

Occupy Wall Street was noble in principle but it's actions were misguided and not executed properly. There NEEDS to be an organised, intelligent, and rational movement against Wall Street corruption.


I agree about combating corruption.

People can do that easily by pressuring their representatives to root it out. But most people have absolutely no idea who ANY of their local representatives are. How are they gonna coerce them to go after corruption? If you don't pressure them, they won't do it.

The way to actually make it happen would be to disseminate the info on who government officials are, and have the public contact them and say 'this is a priority issue for us, and if you dont address it you won't be back in office.'

But these idiots idea of 'fighting the man' is to hang around on the street, smoke cigs, and pat themselves on the back. The easiest, laziest way to do just enough to convince themselves they're 'making a difference.'

Actually making a difference is hard work, and that's why hardly anyone does.

[Akrazotile]

How is a once prosperous nation, the second fastest growing economy on the planet, and a key ally of the United States being turned into a hell hole because of Civil War 'amusing'? :biggums:


I'm only vaguely acquainted with Liberia's history. What was the civil war about? At least, what were the predominant factors? (usually with civil wars there is a confluence of issues.)

[masonanddixon]

How is a once prosperous nation, the second fastest growing economy on the planet, and a key ally of the United States being turned into a hell hole because of Civil War 'amusing'? :biggums:

I apologise, it's not amusing at all. It's ****ed up, really. It's one of the scariest places on Earth now.

[GIF REACTION]

Don have you actually been to or lived in Liberia?

I spent 5 years there during the 1st civil war

I was there when Sam Doe was executed

Trust me when I say this

It was not a nice place to live in

[masonanddixon]

I'm only vaguely acquainted with Liberia's history. What was the civil war about? At least, what were the predominant factors? (usually with civil wars there is a confluence of issues.)

For its most recent significant events, look up 'General Butt Naked.'

And this is not a joke.

[DonDadda59]

I'm only vaguely acquainted with Liberia's history. What was the civil war about? At least, what were the predominant factors? (usually with civil wars there is a confluence of issues.)

The usual in African politics- strife between differing tribes for control, a lot of it being the result of colonization (See: the Hutus vs the Tutsis in Rwanda for another example). The freedmen from America were given control of the country seeing as how Liberia was an American colony. So for over a hundred years you had the Americo-Liberians in a position of power and the indigenous tribes being disenfranchised. Relations improved under President Tubman, and that's when Liberia's economy exploded and they became modernized... Then after he died relations began deteriorating and the first indigenous president, Sam Doe, took control after assassinating Tubman's successor, William Tolbert.

Charles Taylor, who many claim was an American-backed puppet, started an armed insurrection against Doe's government. Shit hit the fan and it just got progressively worse and worse for decades.


Don have you actually been to or lived in Liberia?

I spent 5 years there during the 1st civil war

I was there when Sam Doe was executed

Trust me when I say this

It was not a nice place to live in

Shut up.

[DonDadda59]

Scenes from Liberia in the Late 50s-early 60s, the so-called 'golden era':

Independence Day 1962 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBG5mSjCF4I)

Queen Elizabeth walking the streets (1962) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5Y7trVnjU)

Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands Visits (1958) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtmaDQstBE)

Now compare those scenes to what Liberia looks like now. Scary that could happen to a country. But we're seeing the same thing happen in the Middle East. Just the way things go I suppose.

[GIF REACTION]

Sounds like you haven't

If you want to know how it is now, just ask me

[DonDadda59]

Sounds like you haven't

If you want to know how it is now, just ask me

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Akrazotile]

Scenes from Liberia in the Late 50s-early 60s, the so-called 'golden era':

Independence Day 1962 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBG5mSjCF4I)

Queen Elizabeth walking the streets (1962) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5Y7trVnjU)

Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands Visits (1958) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQtmaDQstBE)

Now compare those scenes to what Liberia looks like now. Scary that could happen to a country. But we're seeing the same thing happen in the Middle East. Just the way things go I suppose.


Seems nice enough, although when you get royal visits or government sanctioned celebrations, there's always going to be more resources than usual into making the event look nice.

How was every day life at the time? If it was relatively stable and safe then that's encouraging. I really WANT to see Africa develop quickly because I think that will lead to a more western attitude toward reproduction. I have a huge concern about the irreversible effects of the human population on the planet. The only places right now rampantly reproducing are the middle east and africa. If that can be slowed down through development, then I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical of whether it's going to happen. I don't know that they can do it without western assistance, and I suspect western assistance will really just be drawn-out carpetbagging designed to leech money while very slowly helping with advancement.

But if something can be done to get these places on the right track quickly, I'm all for it.

[fsvr54]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRuSS0iiFyo

[DonDadda59]

Seems nice enough, although when you get royal visits or government sanctioned celebrations, there's always going to be more resources than usual into making the event look nice.

How was every day life at the time? If it was relatively stable and safe then that's encouraging.

Infinitely better than it is now. :lol

But the indigenous people had their grievances as they were Historically treated as second class citizens, although as I pointed out earlier- relations between them and the former American slave power class was much improved under Pres. Tubman.

There was a massive public works project that saw the construction of roads, hospitals, plumbing systems, etc. They had the largest merchant marine in the World, they were the number one producer of rubber in the world (Firestone was headquartered there), and they were third in the World in natural mineral exports.

Liberia's GDP (not adjusted for inflation from 1960-2008):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Qw6iwZD4gMQ/S7ZFJzDRIZI/AAAAAAAABC0/31kVy045fbo/s1600/Picture+1.png

Notice the ridiculous drop in production during the Taylor led (U.S. backed) Civil War.




I really WANT to see Africa develop quickly because I think that will lead to a more western attitude toward reproduction. I have a huge concern about the irreversible effects of the human population on the planet. The only places right now rampantly reproducing are the middle east and africa. If that can be slowed down through development, then I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical of whether it's going to happen. I don't know that they can do it without western assistance, and I suspect western assistance will really just be drawn-out carpetbagging designed to leech money while very slowly helping with advancement.

But if something can be done to get these places on the right track quickly, I'm all for it.

We've had this discussion already :lol

With Africa's increase in population, there is a direct correlation in much improved and rapidly growing economies. This is undeniable:

http://images.forbes.com/media/2010/07/29/0729_chart-africa-economic-growth_398.jpg

The entire continent's GDP is expected to rise by 4.5% as a whole this year. When the continent was being ravaged by Aids and constant Civil Wars in the 80s-early 00s and population growth, life expectancy, infant mortality, etc was much worse... So was the growth rate of the economy.

Nigeria is poised to be the World's largest growing economy from now until 2050 and will have a population larger than the U.S. They are currently 22nd in GDP ranking worldwide, but will be top 10 by '50... knocking the UK from the list.

Anyone who actually pays attention knows why China has been so heavily invested in Africa the past decade.

[Akrazotile]

We've had this discussion already :lol

With Africa's increase in population, there is a direct correlation in much improved and rapidly growing economies. This is undeniable:




Of course it will grow their GDP, more people that can work in factories and mines etc. means there will be more production from those things. That doesn't mean the quality of life will go up, because that increased income is split between an increasing amount of people. THere are numerous countries with a fraction of China's GDP and a much higher quality of life.

And frankly, their GDP and quality of life are not much of a concern to me. How they distribute resources and handle social issues is their own business. I only care about how they contribute to global population. Basically: I don't want them to. Not in a way that will increase it. So basically WHATEVER America can do to temper their 4-6 kids per family situation, I want to do. Whether it's economic assistance or sterilization shots. I don't care and don't have any moral pretensions. I just want us to do it.

[DonD13]

http://lowbird.com/data/images/2015/12/icxa-spam-o.gif

[DonDadda59]

Of course it will grow their GDP, more people that can work in factories and mines etc. means there will be more production from those things. That doesn't mean the quality of life will go up, because that increased income is split between an increasing amount of people. THere are numerous countries with a fraction of China's GDP and a much higher quality of life.

And frankly, their GDP and quality of life are not much of a concern to me. How they distribute resources and handle social issues is their own business. I only care about how they contribute to global population. Basically: I don't want them to. Not in a way that will increase it. So basically WHATEVER America can do to temper their 4-6 kids per family situation, I want to do. Whether it's economic assistance or sterilization shots. I don't care and don't have any moral pretensions. I just want us to do it.

No offense, but nobody gives a shit what you care about. The World doesn't run on your feelings. How you feel about one thing or another matters as much as what a butterfly thinks about it.

I know you have your heart set on Hitler style genocides or widespread sterilization programs but in reality... That's simply not going to happen.

And for the record, here's the GDP Parity Purchasing Power (PPP) for Africa:

http://www.favl.org/blog/archives/2011/09/19/African%20growth%20in%20GDP.png

Surprise, surprise... As population grows, healthcare is improved... the overall economies are growing as well as personal buying power.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that somehow sterilizing entire populations will improve their living conditions, especially those starving for healthy workforce producers. Even China got rid of their one child law just as they are becoming a major World power. Your 18th century/Neo Nazi junk science has no basis in reality whatsoever.

[Akrazotile]

No offense, but nobody gives a shit what you care about. The World doesn't run on your feelings. How you feel about one thing or another matters as much as what a butterfly thinks about it.

I know you have your heart set on Hitler style genocides or widespread sterilization programs but in reality... That's simply not going to happen.

And for the record, here's the GDP Parity Purchasing Power (PPP) for Africa:


Surprise, surprise... As population grows, healthcare is improved... the overall economies are growing as well as personal buying power.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that somehow sterilizing entire populations will improve their living conditions, especially those starving for healthy workforce producers. Even China got rid of their one child law just as they are becoming a major World power. Your 18th century/Neo Nazi junk science has no basis in reality whatsoever.


You are being short sighted and blinded by tribalism. You are rooting for Africa because you are African and that gives you short term satisfaction.

I care more about how we're wiping out entire species of ocean fish, an important food source for people around the globe. That's a real thing that's happening due to overfishing, which is due to higher demand, due to population growth. Increased industrialization also produces more chemicals and waste, much of which eventually makes its way into the sea.

I care about the unique and irreplaceable species that have taken literally BILLIONS of years to evolve in the rainforest being wiped out permanently by land clearance so that more cattle can be grown for the new in-n-out burger being built in Zimbabwe.

I love watching programs on fascinating creatures like this: http://thinkjungle.com/wp-content/uploads/atoucans/chestnut.jpg. http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/181/cache/deep-sea01-frill-shark_18161_600x450.jpg http://usercontent1.hubimg.com/8440302_f520.jpg

We can learn a ton about Earth's history from their features, as well as things even about ourselves from their behaviors. I think it'd be a great privilege to be able to go and see exotic species in person some day rather than settling for watching videos of them for now. Hopefully some day I'll get the chance to do that, before they're gone. See, I don't like sitting around and watching 7 hours of Netflix and not giving a shit about anything important, unlike most humanoids. I really value all of the worthwhile things life and earth have to offer. I don't want to see ANYTHING perish permanently.

Use comparisons to Hitler as a divert and smear tactic all you want. Doesn't bother me. I have Jewish roots, and if I could stop the ultra-orthodox jewish religious extremists in NYC and Israel from having 7-8 kids per family which they are currently doing, I'd do it in a heartbeat. They're cukoo and I'm not afraid to say 'make them do it our way or sterilize them' because I feel that's important for the long term. I'm not gonna be beta and intimidated by other peoples opinions. I'm not beholden to anyone elses phony moral code. And I feel the same way about Africans and Muslims, BECAUSE that's who's expanding. If there were European countries with birthrates in the 4+ range I'd want to clamp down on them as well. And I'd never want to commit genocide, just like I value all species of wildlife, I value all cultures and kinds of people as society's we can learn from and be productive with. That doesn't mean I want them to overrun my own culture, or to grow out of control. You can have an opinion in between, ya know. The fact is, as hippy as it sounds, we do ALL have to share the planet. If population is an issue and other countries won't check themselves on their own, hell yeah we should do it for them. We have to, if we care about more than our own smug self image as moral elitists.

The environment is at a cross roads right now, and the damage that will be done over the next 50 years as the population climes from 7 billion to 9 billion to 11 billion is irreversible. Would I sterilize 50 million Africans if it meant making some kind of dent in the damage? You bet I would. In a heartbeat. Not because I don't like them, not because I get any satisfaction out of harming other people. But there is a conflict of interest, between the people on the planet today, and future generations who cannot do anything about it today. Our kids will be part of future generations, and let me tell you unequivocally, YES, I care more about the future society my grandkids will live in than I care about Kenya's GDP today. No question about it.

The planet would be far more sustainable if we could shrink the current population down by a couple billion, instead of growing it another 5. Would I make TOUGH, UNPLEASANT decisions right now to make that happen, for the long term benefit of ALL the peoples on the globe? At the unfortunate expense of a fraction of the people inhabiting the worst parts of the planet today? Yup. I wouldn't relish doing it, but it would be the RIGHT thing to do, even though it wouldn't be popular. That's what leadership is. It's a shame I'm not in a position to do it.

[Akrazotile]

http://lowbird.com/data/images/2015/12/icxa-spam-o.gif


This fukkin retard just BLEETS out all the liberal cliches and thinks it makes him appear smart and cultured.

Dude is an absolute beta. His phony moralism is all an act. He's trying to look the part. He doesn't care about what's important or examine his own values. He's just trying to play a role. 100% poser.

Fukk this ******.

[FashionIssues]

Go back where? on a vacation? They are Americans. born in American cities.

[Akrazotile]

Go back where? on a vacation? They are Americans. born in American cities.


Sure. But then we need to remove the option to select AFRICAN American from job applications and diversity scholarships and census forms.

If they're just Americans, they're just Americans. No need to denote AFRICAN American on any official documents. No need to react only to AFRICAN American issues in the news.

Either you're American first, or else go back to whatever place you view yourself as first.

[DonD13]

This fukkin retard just BLEETS out all the liberal cliches and thinks it makes him appear smart and cultured.

Dude is an absolute beta. His phony moralism is all an act. He's trying to look the part. He doesn't care about what's important or examine his own values. He's just trying to play a role. 100% poser.

Fukk this ******.

who? me?

[Akrazotile]

who? me?



https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/34/8f/26/348f2646f29ecf915ed37873c2aa3c9d.jpg

[DonD13]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/34/8f/26/348f2646f29ecf915ed37873c2aa3c9d.jpg

http://lowbird.com/data/images/2015/07/tumblr-tumblr-n3i2aqg9s81txzxolo1-400.gif

[D-Wade316]

DeuceWallaces living rent rent free in Akrazotile's head. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[GIF REACTION]

Akrazotile living rent free in D-Wade316's head. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[wakencdukest]

You need to do more research, bruh. In the 50s and 60s Liberia had the second highest growth economically on the planet. Under President William Tubman (a descendant of slaves), the country saw a growth of 11-12% annually from 1950-1960. It was seen as a golden age for the country and a model for other countries in the region that were fighting for freedom from colonization.

It wasn't until the Civil Wars started in 1980 that the country went to complete shit.




You left out the part where the ex slaves started a government in Monrovia without the consent of native tribes, proceeded to make the natives into servants and laborers, plundered the natural resources of Liberia for their own profit, thus causing dissent among native Liberians which led to civil war. It was bound to fail.

[Goofsta Knicca]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/3d/3d48da4bc764aa768ebe3894829d02d7af59b7380b5f96a946 a47274da3dfb16.jpg

[imdaman99]

Man, Deuce must have done a number on this guy for him to have his picture bookmarked for future threads :roll:

[HenryGarfunkle]

Man, Deuce must have done a number on this guy for him to have his picture bookmarked for future threads :roll:
To be fair I use google for that

http://i.imgur.com/vTzYldM.gif

[ROCSteady]

When starface goes at Deuce at any given opportunity, even him being nowhere near the thread, I usually always laugh.


It's a great running gag & I appreciate his consistency.

Some of you call that 'living rent free,' I just appreciate the refusal to abandon and disengage such a ploy

[DonDadda59]

You are being short sighted and blinded by tribalism. You are rooting for Africa because you are African and that gives you short term satisfaction.

Not at all, I was just posting facts to show how ridiculously misguided your population theory was. Can you point to any point in History, any civilization that lost a significant amount of its population and thrived as a result?

1/3 to 1/2 of the population of Europe died as a result of the Black Death. So things went swimmingly for Europeans during this time, yes? According to your theory their vastly stunted population growth rate must've done wonders for the Continent.

Massively increased rates of death, diseases, warfare, poverty... Those were the hallmarks of the Bubonic Plague era in Europe. They didn't call it the Dark Ages because of all the great advancements society was making during this period.

And here we are again, witnessing another continent coming out of its Dark Ages (with the plague being replaced with Aids).




I care more about how we're wiping out entire species of ocean fish, an important food source for people around the globe. That's a real thing that's happening due to overfishing, which is due to higher demand, due to population growth. Increased industrialization also produces more chemicals and waste, much of which eventually makes its way into the sea.

Exactly why World leaders are meeting now to help curb this enviornmental issue. They actually just drafted an agreement yesterday:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/12/world/global-climate-change-conference-vote/index.html

You know what... I don't think systematic sterilization of whole populations was involved in that draft. :lol


I care about the unique and irreplaceable species that have taken literally BILLIONS of years to evolve in the rainforest being wiped out permanently by land clearance so that more cattle can be grown for the new in-n-out burger being built in Zimbabwe.

The World is only 6,000 years old and evolution is a lie invented by the Devil to fool people. :no:


We can learn a ton about Earth's history from their features, as well as things even about ourselves from their behaviors. I think it'd be a great privilege to be able to go and see exotic species in person some day rather than settling for watching videos of them for now. Hopefully some day I'll get the chance to do that, before they're gone. See, I don't like sitting around and watching 7 hours of Netflix and not giving a shit about anything important, unlike most humanoids. I really value all of the worthwhile things life and earth have to offer. I don't want to see ANYTHING perish permanently.

Use comparisons to Hitler as a divert and smear tactic all you want. Doesn't bother me. I have Jewish roots, and if I could stop the ultra-orthodox jewish religious extremists in NYC and Israel from having 7-8 kids per family which they are currently doing, I'd do it in a heartbeat. They're cukoo and I'm not afraid to say 'make them do it our way or sterilize them' because I feel that's important for the long term. I'm not gonna be beta and intimidated by other peoples opinions. I'm not beholden to anyone elses phony moral code. And I feel the same way about Africans and Muslims, BECAUSE that's who's expanding. If there were European countries with birthrates in the 4+ range I'd want to clamp down on them as well. And I'd never want to commit genocide, just like I value all species of wildlife, I value all cultures and kinds of people as society's we can learn from and be productive with. That doesn't mean I want them to overrun my own culture, or to grow out of control. You can have an opinion in between, ya know. The fact is, as hippy as it sounds, we do ALL have to share the planet. If population is an issue and other countries won't check themselves on their own, hell yeah we should do it for them. We have to, if we care about more than our own smug self image as moral elitists.

The environment is at a cross roads right now, and the damage that will be done over the next 50 years as the population climes from 7 billion to 9 billion to 11 billion is irreversible. Would I sterilize 50 million Africans if it meant making some kind of dent in the damage? You bet I would. In a heartbeat. Not because I don't like them, not because I get any satisfaction out of harming other people. But there is a conflict of interest, between the people on the planet today, and future generations who cannot do anything about it today. Our kids will be part of future generations, and let me tell you unequivocally, YES, I care more about the future society my grandkids will live in than I care about Kenya's GDP today. No question about it.

The planet would be far more sustainable if we could shrink the current population down by a couple billion, instead of growing it another 5. Would I make TOUGH, UNPLEASANT decisions right now to make that happen, for the long term benefit of ALL the peoples on the globe? At the unfortunate expense of a fraction of the people inhabiting the worst parts of the planet today? Yup. I wouldn't relish doing it, but it would be the RIGHT thing to do, even though it wouldn't be popular. That's what leadership is. It's a shame I'm not in a position to do it.

That's all and well, more power to you... but you should at least know that calling for the forced sterilization of whole populations to save some birds makes you sound like a paranoid schizophrenic who has a tenuous grasp on reality at best.

Just an FYI.