What happened to the American Dream?

[ISHGoat]

My parents immigrated here almost twenty years ago and worked/studied their asses off to land good careers in Canada. They saved money and worked very hard & smart to send me to private school and then paid for my university tuition/rent.

They started with literally nothing. My dad came from nothing. He was a farmer in a poor country and both his parents died before he graduated university. I am so inspired everyday by what they have done for themselves and me. I believe my parents have accomplished the American Dream.

Yet here I am, twenty years later and with much better starting conditions than my parents and the vast majority of my peers. However, the American Dream does not seem realistic to me. I make very good money at work for someone my age due to my great education credentials however the prospect of personally saving enough for a 25% down payment on a 400k condo seems daunting at best. Want to live in a 2 car garage in the suburbs? Well better have a quarter mill losing around.

A lot of my friends weren't so fortunate to have parents covering their financial needs during undergrad. They start with a 20-40k debt and often with lower salaries jobs than mine.

The quality of living may have increased on a societal level but the costs of university education, starting a family and owning property seem to have disproportionally increased as well. What can this be attributed to - besides generally stating "ridiculous house prices"?

[fiddy]

American Dream is nothing more than a fallacy used by the land of the fake to attract gullible and desperate individuals, later to be exploited.

[Derka]

"Its called the American dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

[Dresta]

*Admits his parents won him much better starting conditions than they themselves had*

*Asks: 'where is the American Dream'*


Well, that's pretty much it really: that you can come here and win your posterity greater opportunities than you yourself were privy to. What exactly are you expecting? Magic or something?

But yeah, it has got harder in recent years, though most of the problems you are outlining are a result in the American shift from a creditor to a debtor nation - large public debts, heavily inflated currencies, and massive asset bubbles are always going to make it harder for people to get started and establish themselves in life (before they know it they're 50k or so in debt :roll:). But that's socialism and the welfare state for ya! Everyone in debt and everyone dependent on big brother as a result.

[Velocirap31]

There was much more income distribution for our parents' generation. Now the top get extra fat and wages have stagnated for everyone else. I do alright based on my education as well, but some people here have university degrees and are living off of $12/hr, which in Canada, is pretty damn tough to do. Throw in contract work and 36-hour 'part-time' jobs and companies are avoiding paying any benefits at all.

International buyers have driven the housing market up year after year in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, pricing out regular Canadians. Banks are charging fees for everything while giving no interest on saved money and then posting record profits year after year. Hydro rates have gone up 70% in ten years despite us using 25% less energy. Water rates have doubled despite less use than ever. Carbon taxes, HST, tax tax tax.

Life is just a treadmill now.

[Dresta]

"Its called the American dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
The irony of that coming from an extremely successful and well-off American, descended from the oft-impoverished Irish is. . .palpable.

[GIF REACTION]

1965's Immigration policy change was a huge gamechanger for the US

The American Dream is free trade, property ownership, and a society based around hard work. A Libertarian society is the closest thing to it... And as the world has moved further and further away from it and toward a socialist theocracy where the state is the new God, education is the new God.

[Lebowsky]

My parents immigrated here almost twenty years ago and worked/studied their asses off to land good careers in Canada. They saved money and worked very hard & smart to send me to private school and then paid for my university tuition/rent.

They started with literally nothing. My dad came from nothing. He was a farmer in a poor country and both his parents died before he graduated university. I am so inspired everyday by what they have done for themselves and me. I believe my parents have accomplished the American Dream.

Yet here I am, twenty years later and with much better starting conditions than my parents and the vast majority of my peers. However, the American Dream does not seem realistic to me. I make very good money at work for someone my age due to my great education credentials however the prospect of personally saving enough for a 25% down payment on a 400k condo seems daunting at best. Want to live in a 2 car garage in the suburbs? Well better have a quarter mill losing around.

A lot of my friends weren't so fortunate to have parents covering their financial needs during undergrad. They start with a 20-40k debt and often with lower salaries jobs than mine.

The quality of living may have increased on a societal level but the costs of university education, starting a family and owning property seem to have disproportionally increased as well. What can this be attributed to - besides generally stating "ridiculous house prices"?

Maybe you should be focusing on building up passive income instead of jumping into a huge mortgage? There is no american dream, there are reasonable and unreasonable financial decisions.

[GIF REACTION]

Maybe you should be focusing on building up passive income instead of jumping into a huge mortgage? There is no american dream, there are reasonable and unreasonable financial decisions.
This is true but don't be ignorant. The only way to progress is to play through the system, and the system is rigged from the getgo. Just look at America's educational system. Ensuring debt enslavement no matter how you look at it.

[Derka]

The irony of that coming from an extremely successful and well-off American, descended from the oft-impoverished Irish is. . .palpable.
Not something that was lost on him if you ever read his writings.

[Lebowsky]

This is true but don't be ignorant. The only way to progress is to play through the system, and the system is rigged from the getgo. Just look at America's educational system. Ensuring debt enslavement no matter how you look at it.
That's true, the way the educational system is currently set up in America is a big scam and puts you guys in a bad starting position for the first few years of your careers, even more so if you give in to the credit lifestyle. However, my point still stands: there's no need to tie yourself up with a mortgage in your late 20s or early 30s, let alone a 400k one, especially if you're already paying back your student loans. That money can (and, in my humble opinion, should) be used in building up passsive income. The problem is most people want to live beyond their means.

[GIF REACTION]

That's true, the way the educational system is currently set up in America is a big scam and puts you guys in a bad starting position for the first few years of your careers, even more so if you give in to the credit lifestyle. However, my point still stands: there's no need to tie yourself up with a mortgage in your late 20s or early 30s, let alone a 400k one, especially if you're already paying back your student loans. That money can (and, in my humble opinion, should) be used in building up passsive income. The problem is most people want to live beyond their means.
Yep absolutely agree

One of my extended family members renovated and sold numerous properties himself over 20 odd years and bought some investment properties up in a mining town with almost exclusively 90% loan from the bank all the while paying off a mortgage on his own home... Long story short he was making insane profit renting the properties out, then suddenly the mining boom ended and he could only get people to rent from a quarter of the price

2 million in debt, 20 years of renovating properties wasted and he'll have to sell all his assets and start from scratch

Just terrible financial choices

[rufuspaul]

My parents immigrated here almost twenty years ago and worked/studied their asses off to land good careers in Canada.


There's your problem, you should be pursuing the Canadian dream.

[Patrick Chewing]

It got replaced with government handouts.

[Random_Guy]

You see, the American dream is still there, the thing with the idea of the American dream is that anyone can start as underdogs, which is still true. And in reality the underdogs have always been the very small minority.

[GIF REACTION]

It got replaced with government handouts.
The government will reward you $10 for this post. Great job Chew.

[DonDadda59]

Liberals :mad:

[Velocirap31]

Liberals :mad:

I agree. I used to be Liberal, but they've destroyed Ontario. Delusional spend now-pay later attitude is creating a debt we'll never be rid of and they don't care because they're old and my generation will be paying for it. Throw in some corruption and questionable expenses and you get the Liberal party. The entire province voted conservative in our last election, except for Toronto. Result, Liberal majority win.

[GIF REACTION]

Liberals :mad:
Are you enjoying that welfare stimulus package?

[DonDadda59]

Are you enjoying that welfare stimulus package?

Living the dream :rockon:

[QuebecBaller]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xMM6Xw7H7a0/VCJyUMvJ6ZI/AAAAAAAAAOI/JwC-CvsLDAU/s1600/watchmen-itcametrueyourlivingit.gif

[Ass Dan]

I guess you need to pursue it in Canada now.

No seriously, there are two major problems in America, individualism in a selfish sense, we are so absorbed on the 'I' there is no 'We'. We treat our neighbors with suspicion and fear and we have no interest in the welfare of our community unless it directly affects our property value.

The second problem is that we falsely romanticize our 'ideal' America from the 50s as it was far from inclusive and if existed today would lead to all out chaos (picture BLM behaving more like the IRA).

America is a great place to pursue your discipline at a high level. Its like the best courts in the city, you can always get a good run here, there are some killer ballers in other countries but this is where the best games usually are. America is basically like that for the world, but a lot more n*ggas are calling next and a lot fewer n*ggas gonna see the court.

But hey, there is a run now going on across the street in Canada, seems pretty decent, might as well check it out, just like the OP's parents.

[nathanjizzle]

The american dream is alive and well. The dream isnt an easily attainable nice house with a white picket fence, the dream is that you can work hard, and create a nice life for yourself, and if not for yourself then for your family. evidently, the american dream came true for your parents, you are educated with a good job.

[ISHGoat]

The american dream is alive and well. The dream isnt an easily attainable nice house with a white picket fence, the dream is that you can work hard, and create a nice life for yourself, and if not for yourself then for your family. evidently, the american dream came true for your parents, you are educated with a good job.

My parents made it happen for me but I really fail to see how my generation can make it happen for our descendants. My generation can barely stand on our own legs 5 years after coming out of undergrad, at around age 27, the age that my parents birthed me and a very standard age to begin a family.

[Velocirap31]

My parents made it happen for me but I really fail to see how my generation can make it happen for our descendants. My generation can barely stand on our own legs 5 years after coming out of undergrad, at around age 27, the age that my parents birthed me and a very standard age to begin a family.

Right. Same age as me, but my girlfriend hasn't been able to even find a job in her field yet. I've been supporting us both for the last few years, but I don't get ahead as a result. She works for minimum wage, but has student loans and is saving to get a master's degree. Hopefully that will help her.

[nathanjizzle]

My parents made it happen for me but I really fail to see how my generation can make it happen for our descendants. My generation can barely stand on our own legs 5 years after coming out of undergrad, at around age 27, the age that my parents birthed me and a very standard age to begin a family.

well, you are not working hard enough or doing enough for your own dream, you or living your parents dream. if you continue on the path you are going, you will eventually buy a house in a nice suburb and raise a family whom your kids can live a decent life and have a shot at success, this is your parents dream and hard work coming to fruition, not yours.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Que?

[DukeDelonte13]

housing in canada is stupid expensive. My sister in law is marrying some dude from calgary and they are looking at homes in the 500k range. You can get comparable homes here just outside of most major US cities for about half that price.

Similarly, my parents were dirt poor and immigrated here. Started a business, made decent money, and all of their kids have graduate level degrees. Not too shabby considering my grandparents never even set foot in a school and were illiterate their entire lives.


I think too many kids go to college, and not enough take up the trades/go into business for themselves. I also think our generation is afraid of hard work, and are too prideful to take jobs that they deem are beneath them. A bachelor's degree is now a high school diploma. People whine about jobs they don't like or shouldn't be doing. Suck it up.

And another huge culprit is people living above their means. Maybe it's not such a great idea to finance a 30k car. Maybe it's not such a great idea to have a gigantic mortgage. People hitting up chipotle and starbucks like its their f*cking job over here. It's ridiculous. It's not a liberal versus conservative thing, that notion is stupid. It's an individualistic thing. Blaming it on some scapegoat like liberalism or conservatism is just flat out wrong.

Anyone can still make a fortune here.

[KevinNYC]

Are you enjoying that welfare stimulus package?

What are you talking about?

[KevinNYC]

The second problem is that we falsely romanticize our 'ideal' America from the 50s as it was far from inclusive and if existed today would lead to all out chaos (picture BLM behaving more like the IRA).

I have no idea what you're saying here.

But I seem to remember there was a Civil Rights Movement in 50's.

[falc39]

Despite the misleading official inflation and employment figures, cost of living keeps going up and the quality of jobs is deteriorating. Current policies make it much harder to save, crippling people like millenials who are already drowning in debt from the student loan bubble. You will have to work harder than your parents to achieve what they have. It's the reality but don't fall into the trap that others have: avoid feelings of entitlement, that is a loser's mentality.

Btw, why do you feel you have to put 25% down on your mortgage? I just closed on a 400k+ condo (fixed-rate) and did not need to save that much for the downpayment.

[ISHGoat]

Despite the misleading official inflation and employment figures, cost of living keeps going up and the quality of jobs is deteriorating. Current policies make it much harder to save, crippling people like millenials who are already drowning in debt from the student loan bubble. You will have to work harder than your parents to achieve what they have. It's the reality but don't fall into the trap that others have: avoid feelings of entitlement, that is a loser's mentality.

Btw, why do you feel you have to put 25% down on your mortgage? I just closed on a 400k+ condo (fixed-rate) and did not need to save that much for the downpayment.

It is just a number that I threw out there. From what I recall, my parents always paid at least 25% for downpayments.

[Velocirap31]

It is just a number that I threw out there. From what I recall, my parents always paid at least 25% for downpayments.

25% was far easier to do back in our parent's day when you made $30,000/year and the average house cost $60,000.

[~primetime~]

"Its called the American dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
says the guy who made millions telling jokes on stage

:whatever:

[Dresta]

I agree. I used to be Liberal, but they've destroyed Ontario. Delusional spend now-pay later attitude is creating a debt we'll never be rid of and they don't care because they're old and my generation will be paying for it. Throw in some corruption and questionable expenses and you get the Liberal party. The entire province voted conservative in our last election, except for Toronto. Result, Liberal majority win.
See what they did to Detroit, and now Chicago. Just a couple of many examples of places being utterly decimated by 'civic planners.' Give every US city a Coleman Young to run it and they'll all be looking like Detroit pretty soon.

[Nick Young]

My parents immigrated here almost twenty years ago and worked/studied their asses off to land good careers in Canada. They saved money and worked very hard & smart to send me to private school and then paid for my university tuition/rent.

They started with literally nothing. My dad came from nothing. He was a farmer in a poor country and both his parents died before he graduated university. I am so inspired everyday by what they have done for themselves and me. I believe my parents have accomplished the American Dream.

Yet here I am, twenty years later and with much better starting conditions than my parents and the vast majority of my peers. However, the American Dream does not seem realistic to me. I make very good money at work for someone my age due to my great education credentials however the prospect of personally saving enough for a 25% down payment on a 400k condo seems daunting at best. Want to live in a 2 car garage in the suburbs? Well better have a quarter mill losing around.

A lot of my friends weren't so fortunate to have parents covering their financial needs during undergrad. They start with a 20-40k debt and often with lower salaries jobs than mine.

The quality of living may have increased on a societal level but the costs of university education, starting a family and owning property seem to have disproportionally increased as well. What can this be attributed to - besides generally stating "ridiculous house prices"?
Start a business, learn to invest, or be a wage slave til you die.

The choice is yours.


I'll let you in on a secret-a university degree does not equal guaranteed success and means very little in this day and age. You still have to work hard if you want to separate yourself from every other person out there with a degree. That's what happens when universities lower standards and give degrees to people who shouldn't even have been allowed in to higher education institutions in the first place.

[nathanjizzle]

See what they did to Detroit, and now Chicago. Just a couple of many examples of places being utterly decimated by 'civic planners.' Give every US city a Coleman Young to run it and they'll all be looking like Detroit pretty soon.

what exactly has become of chicago? we have become a world class city. yes there is corruption. and what happened in detroit isnt about politics. detroit was a manufacturing hub for america, and the manufacturing industry fell that decade because of the economy. plants went out of business, people lost their jobs.

[BigNBAfan]

muslims

[masonanddixon]

The Baby Boomer generation is what happened.

[Pushxx]

The Fed, taxes, federal spending, the military industrial complex...

We can all go home now.

[NumberSix]

"Its called the American dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
Said a guy who was able to achieve all the success he could ever dream of by telling jokes. Clearly, the land of opportunity is just a myth.

[DrakeTheSnake]

It got replaced with government handouts.
Pre-1960s gave more handouts with significantly higher tax rates. Those are also he eras that many refer to as the golden age of America.

[MMKM]

The new American dream:applause:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I79wUEqBdQc

[MMKM]

The informed electorate

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhep2QOzM2s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5wCxxUX7M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_JJLLfTR8I

[outbreak]

the american dream still exists just not in America

[MMKM]

The informed electorate cont'd

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_JJLLfTR8I

[outbreak]

My parents immigrated here almost twenty years ago and worked/studied their asses off to land good careers in Canada. They saved money and worked very hard & smart to send me to private school and then paid for my university tuition/rent.

They started with literally nothing. My dad came from nothing. He was a farmer in a poor country and both his parents died before he graduated university. I am so inspired everyday by what they have done for themselves and me. I believe my parents have accomplished the American Dream.

Yet here I am, twenty years later and with much better starting conditions than my parents and the vast majority of my peers. However, the American Dream does not seem realistic to me. I make very good money at work for someone my age due to my great education credentials however the prospect of personally saving enough for a 25% down payment on a 400k condo seems daunting at best. Want to live in a 2 car garage in the suburbs? Well better have a quarter mill losing around.

A lot of my friends weren't so fortunate to have parents covering their financial needs during undergrad. They start with a 20-40k debt and often with lower salaries jobs than mine.

The quality of living may have increased on a societal level but the costs of university education, starting a family and owning property seem to have disproportionally increased as well. What can this be attributed to - besides generally stating "ridiculous house prices"?

Ok I live in a different country so yeah my situation is totally different but I saved and moved in to my own home when I was 21 (I left school at 17 and got a diploma, started full time just before I was 19, had been working part time since I was 14).

A lot of my friends made jokes about how i was rich because they couldn't afford a house (still can't) but when you look at how they manage their finances it's no surprise. They spend 10k a year going over seas to america and europe or they take out loans to help buy 30-40k cars and then they would complain to me that they have no money and it's impossible to save up for a home deposit.

Again maybe it's different over there (I thought the market for out of city was cheaper in the states though?) but here the market has risen a lot in the last decade but at the same time people's priorities have changed which is fine but it annoys me when people wonder how I afford things and then tell me how much they just spent on some luxury item/trip. I spend more now that I've done all that but for the first few years I was working I saved everything I could and now I'm in the situation where i have a house and disposable income.