28% of my paycheck is gone before I get it.

[UK2K]

Isn't that depressing? Basically, three days out of every two week pay period (two 5-day weeks) goes straight to the government, in which I have zero choice of where it goes.

Welp, it's now Thursday, so at least I will get to keep the money I make today.

[GIF REACTION]

stalker should be bowing down to you for those disability and welfare checks

[fiddy]

we poor, but.....10% flat rate :party:

and still feeding gypos :facepalm

[Velocirap31]

First 3.5 months of every year, we work for free.

[UK2K]

we poor, but.....10% flat rate :party:

and still feeding gypos :facepalm

There needs to just be a consumption tax.

We can get rid of 90% of the IRS, and I would be able to keep my money, because in any given week, I don't buy shit other than food and gas.

[Sarcastic]

Just be happy your rich CEO is paying a lower percentage than you, and allows you to keep your job, instead of offshoring it.

[UK2K]

Just be happy your rich CEO is paying a lower percentage than you, and allows you to keep your job, instead of offshoring it.

I am more than thankful for my job.

But, if the CEO wanted to outsource my job overseas, I'd just go work somewhere else. We are all given choices in life. If he made his, I'd make mine. Easy peazy.

[DonDadda59]

That's the price of freedom. :applause:

[UK2K]

First 3.5 months of every year, we work for free.
:cry:

That's ridiculous.

[fiddy]

That's the price of fakery. :applause:
fxd

[nathanjizzle]

Isn't that depressing? Basically, three days out of every two week pay period (two 5-day weeks) goes straight to the government, in which I have zero choice of where it goes.

Welp, it's now Thursday, so at least I will get to keep the money I make today.

you are not entitled to keep 100 percent of your paycheck. you owe it to the working economy which is fostered by the government that allows you to work and receive monetary compensation for it. you have to give something back to the machine in order for the machine to keep functioning.

[fiddy]

you are not entitled to keep 100 percent of your paycheck. you owe it to the working economy which is fostered by the government that allows you to work and receive monetary compensation for it. you have to give something back to the machine in order for the machine to keep functioning.
like spending 600+ billions on "security" annually?

[GIF REACTION]

like spending 600+ billions on "security" annually?
Somehow Russia's the threat tho right?

:lol

[KevinNYC]

:cry:

That's ridiculous.
It's also not really how it works, as you note, you work, you get paid, taxes come out as you go.

[UK2K]

you are not entitled to keep 100 percent of your paycheck. you owe it to the working economy which is fostered by the government that allows you to work and receive monetary compensation for it. you have to give something back to the machine in order for the machine to keep functioning.

Oh sure, I'm aware taxes are necessary.

But my anger is a mixture of the rich not paying enough, and the poor not paying any.

If I have to pay 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes when I don't make all that much, why the **** can't the rich (who have the money) and the poor (many of whom are much older than I and as healthy as I am) do their part?

Outside of the disabled, you should be mandated to work for those food stamps. Public works projects. You do the work (cause you can't 'find any'), you get paid in welfare benefits, and you save the government money by doing shit they'd otherwise contract someone out to do.

It's the world we live in now though I guess.


"In 2013, according to the Census Bureau, there were 105,862,000 full-time year-round workers in the United States -- including 16,685,000 full-time government workers. These full-time workers were outnumbered by the 109,631,000 whom the Census Bureau says were getting benefits from means-tested federal programs -- e.g. welfare -- as of the fourth quarter of 2012.

"Every American family that pays its own way -- and takes care of its own children whether with one or two incomes -- must subsidize the 109,631,000 on welfare."

[kurple]

I have no degree, work 80%, pay 35% taxes, yet still have money to go on vacations every year (was 3 weeks in Denver and 1 month in Guadeloupe last year), smoke a couple grams a day, eat sushi once or twice a week, go out clubbing at least once a week

Stop complaining people, just be smarter with your money

[GIF REACTION]

I have no degree, work 80%, pay 35% taxes, yet still have money to go on vacations every year (was 3 weeks in Denver and 1 month in Guadeloupe last year), smoke a couple grams a day, eat sushi once or twice a week, go out clubbing at least once a week

Stop complaining people, just be smarter with your money
Talk about a defeatist attitude

[DonDadda59]

Oh sure, I'm aware taxes are necessary.

But my anger is a mixture of the rich not paying enough, and the poor not paying any.

If I have to pay 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes when I don't make all that much, why the **** can't the rich (who have the money) and the poor (many of whom are much older than I and as healthy as I am) do their part?

Outside of the disabled, you should be mandated to work for those food stamps. Public works projects. You do the work (cause you can't 'find any'), you get paid in welfare benefits, and you save the government money by doing shit they'd otherwise contract someone out to do.

It's the world we live in now though I guess.

Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders rolled into one over here. Trying to get the rich to pay their 'fair share'. :lol

Don't you know anything? Trickle down economics is the only system that works you liberal hippie.

[UK2K]

I have no degree, work 80%, pay 35% taxes, yet still have money to go on vacations every year (was 3 weeks in Denver and 1 month in Guadeloupe last year), smoke a couple grams a day, eat sushi once or twice a week, go out clubbing at least once a week

Stop complaining people, just be smarter with your money

So... I should be cool with paying 30% in taxes because I was able to vacation in Vegas, Richmond, New Orleans and Charleston this year?

[UK2K]

Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders rolled into one over here. Trying to get the rich to pay their 'fair share'. :lol

Don't you know anything? Trickle down economics is the only system that works you liberal hippie.

Unfortunately, they'd also love to take more of my money and give it to the ones who add nothing of value to our society.

I'd rather a rich man (who obviously works) pay the same tax rate as me than a bum (who doesn't work) get shit for free. Honestly. Would I like the rich man to pay more? Sure, but as long as everyone pays relatively the same, I can't complain all that much.

I understand there are people who need welfare, and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with welfare turning into a way of life though, and that's basically what it is now.

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2010/b2427/b2427_chart5_750px.ashx

By the way, the current number of food stamp recipients is 47 million. So that chart on the left... yep, it goes straight up.

[nathanjizzle]

Oh sure, I'm aware taxes are necessary.

But my anger is a mixture of the rich not paying enough, and the poor not paying any.

If I have to pay 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes when I don't make all that much, why the **** can't the rich (who have the money) and the poor (many of whom are much older than I and as healthy as I am) do their part?

Outside of the disabled, you should be mandated to work for those food stamps. Public works projects. You do the work (cause you can't 'find any'), you get paid in welfare benefits, and you save the government money by doing shit they'd otherwise contract someone out to do. stop acting like your little chump change does anything for society and should give you some sort of entitlement.

It's the world we live in now though I guess.

the rich people? who provide jobs to the entire middle america? manufacturing tax is close to 40 percent. any rich person that owns a manufacturing business has to pay 40 percent of each item they make. but they arent getting taxed? 10 percent of 2 million is still alot more than 30 percent of 55,000 dollars.

[West-Side]

I'm glad to know that in Canada the tax rate went down for middle class. :rockon:

As of 2016, thank you Justin Trudeau!

[DonDadda59]

Unfortunately, they'd also love to take more of my money and give it to the ones who add nothing of value to our society.

:lol


I'd rather a rich man (who obviously works) pay the same tax rate as me than a bum (who doesn't work) get shit for free. Honestly. Would I like the rich man to pay more? Sure, but as long as everyone pays relatively the same, I can't complain all that much.

You = Closet Obama Supporter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXe3DGNI_Ms)

A real conservative working man would lobby for the rich man to get massive tax breaks in hope that money would somehow magically 'trickle down' to his shack/trailer/etc.

Anyone who disagrees is clearly a liberal socialist who hates America.

[UK2K]

the rich people? who provide jobs to the entire middle america? manufacturing tax is close to 40 percent. any rich person that owns a manufacturing business has to pay 40 percent of each item they make. but they arent getting taxed? 10 percent of 2 million is still alot more than 30 percent of 55,000 dollars.

Sure it is. But if I am paying 30%, when he makes in a month what I make in a year, he needs to be paying the same tax rate I am. Period.

Now, I don't want the rich paying 60% like they do in France. I just want everyone to pay the same thing. Which is why I said...


There needs to just be a consumption tax.

We can get rid of 90% of the IRS, and I would be able to keep my money, because in any given week, I don't buy shit other than food and gas.

That way, nobody can bitch. Don't want to pay taxes? Don't buy anything.

[West-Side]

the rich people? who provide jobs to the entire middle america? manufacturing tax is close to 40 percent. any rich person that owns a manufacturing business has to pay 40 percent of each item they make. but they arent getting taxed? 10 percent of 2 million is still alot more than 30 percent of 55,000 dollars.

Manufacturing business get the most lucrative tax credit in Canada though.
Plus if they are a private company, they get the SBD up to $500,000.

The government have placed a lot of incentive for smaller companies.
You're giving us the gross tax rate, without including a zillion different credits and deduction plus abatement's a company could claim on their T2's.

For instace; in Canada a CCPC pays taxes at 32-42% depending on the province (I'm including both federal and provincial taxes). However, after the general tax reduction, abatement, SBD & manuf. credits; their effective tax rate sometimes is as low as 14.5%! With the MTC, sometimes they pay as low as 5%.

[Norcaliblunt]

Does anyone else see food stamps sort of as like a corporate food company subsidy? I mean poor people can't hoard ebt cards, and generate wealth. They have to spend them back into the economy usually at a big corporate supermarket on some corporate food. So who really gets the money?

[Draz]

It's sad. The last ethnographic book I read discussed all of this shit. People living in poverty and being taxed, don't even take home enough to survive.

[Norcaliblunt]

How about Wall Street who pays 0 on their quadrillion of high frequency flash trading turnover?

[IGOTGAME]

I have no degree, work 80%, pay 35% taxes, yet still have money to go on vacations every year (was 3 weeks in Denver and 1 month in Guadeloupe last year), smoke a couple grams a day, eat sushi once or twice a week, go out clubbing at least once a week

Stop complaining people, just be smarter with your money

Sounds like you don't have any responsibilities. We will see how it feels when your stuck there with a wife and kids.

[DonDadda59]

Does anyone else see food stamps sort of as like a corporate food company subsidy? I mean poor people can't hoard ebt cards, and generate wealth. They have to spend them back into the economy usually at a big corporate supermarket on some corporate food. So who really gets the money?

That's the funny thing about people who complain about poor people getting handouts and 'entitlements'... They only get enough to barely survive and that money gets recycled back into the economy because they have to spend the money on food, clothing, etc.

But give a millionaire or billionaire a juicy tax break and he's not 'trickling down' shit. He's hoarding that money and just trying to turn it into more money for himself.

Reaganomics really did a number on our economy/society. Thank Vishnu we had some reprieves with Slick Willy and Based Barack. The Bush boys and their allegiance to failed economic policies nearly destroyed us. And now the same old elephants are on the campaign trail spewing the same old debunked nonsense. One of them actually uttered these words- 'I miss George Bush'. :facepalm

Glad to see at least one former elephant finally wised up. Welcome to Libtard Utopia, UK. :cheers:

[UK2K]

Sounds like you don't have any responsibilities. We will see how it feels when your stuck there with a wife and kids.

Yep. I live very comfortably now (despite the 28% taxes), but I also don't have a wife, or kids.

For a reason.

I'm sure when the day comes, if I were living on my current salary, it wouldn't be nearly as fun.

[West-Side]

It's sad. The last ethnographic book I read discussed all of this shit. People living in poverty and being taxed, don't even take home enough to survive.

It's because a lot of the poor are uneducated losers.
Honestly, I'm tired of hearing this bullshit.

There are maybe 0.00005% of the poor that are living in poverty because of unfortunate circumstances. The rest are welfare bums who rather sit on facebook all day and complain about how the "liberals" are screwing them over. It honestly irks me that so much of my money goes to them every damn month. And then I have your ass telling me I should feel sorry for them?

Sorry bud, I worked 20-25 hours a week while attending school on a full time basis just so I can have opportunities in this world. Many people didn't, they felt like smoking weed, selling drugs and collecting baby bonus checks is the way to live. Then all the sudden they realize they've been living like this for years and start making stupid facebook statutes about why we shouldn't vote for liberals. :no:

Second off, most of these people are uneducated and aren't aware of how many credits they are entitled to during tax season. I done some tax returns for complete bums for free (friends of a friend type of thing) and it was ridiculous how uneducated they were. They didn't even know what a T4 was at first. They didn't have rent receipt, didn't know the landlord's name or contact info etc.

Now I could have given her a nice tax return by collecting all the credits she qualifies for (and welfare bums do qualify for a lot). But she didn't have any information for me so I didn't want to risk being audited.

For instace, if a welfare bum pays for public transit (say $200), they get that entire amount back via a refundable tax credit. :rolleyes:

Please don't irritate me by telling me I have to feel sorry for these clowns. I'm paying enough taxes as it is so they can continue eating McDonalds, watching Trailer Park Boys, smoking weed and selling drugs.

[poido123]

I'm one of those who support those on welfare.


Those who cling to welfare and exploit it are the minority and those minorities live a pretty shitty existence if the only thing in their life to achieve is a regular doll cheque.


Don't be fooled that these people are happy and living it up. Many of these people are social outcasts, mentally ill(many don't know or acknowledge it), don't fit the "workforce needs".


The government holds the key here. Better funded and managed job creation services and unemployment placement and training will ensure many of these individuals can find work.

Unfortunately our society is built upon blaming these people who already lack self confidence. Perhaps a swedish model to employment would be far more constructive.


We also have to deal with the reality that society has a huge problem with the drug culture. Doesn't matter how many services or jobs are available, people on drugs are not getting their shit together until they are off it(for the majority of users).



Governments squander large amounts of money on failed ideas. The people always pay more and more taxes to compensate the losses.

[UK2K]

That's the funny thing about people who complain about poor people getting handouts and 'entitlements'... They only get enough to barely survive and that money gets recycled back into the economy because they have to spend the money on food, clothing, etc.

But give a millionaire or billionaire a juicy tax break and he's not 'trickling down' shit. He's hoarding that money and just trying to turn it into more money for himself.

Reaganomics really did a number on our economy/society. Thank Vishnu we had some reprieves with Slick Willy and Based Barack. The Bush boys and their allegiance to failed economic policies nearly destroyed us. And now the same old elephants are on the campaign trail spewing the same old debunked nonsense. One of them actually uttered these words- 'I miss George Bush'. :facepalm

Glad to see at least one former elephant finally wised up. Welcome to Libtard Utopia, UK. :cheers:

What the **** do you think I spend my money on? :oldlol:

You think billionaires don't buy shit?

That's why we need to go to a consumption tax. Eliminate all the bullshit, pay taxes on what you purchase.

[KevinNYC]

Oh sure, I'm aware taxes are necessary.

But my anger is a mixture of the rich not paying enough, and the poor not paying any.

If I have to pay 1/3 of my paycheck to taxes when I don't make all that much, why the **** can't the rich (who have the money) and the poor (many of whom are much older than I and as healthy as I am) do their part?

Outside of the disabled, you should be mandated to work for those food stamps. Public works projects. You do the work (cause you can't 'find any'), you get paid in welfare benefits, and you save the government money by doing shit they'd otherwise contract someone out to do.

"In 2013, according to the Census Bureau, there were 105,862,000 full-time year-round workers in the United States -- including 16,685,000 full-time government workers. These full-time workers were outnumbered by the 109,631,000 whom the Census Bureau says were getting benefits from means-tested federal programs -- e.g. welfare -- as of the fourth quarter of 2012.

"Every American family that pays its own way -- and takes care of its own children whether with one or two incomes -- must subsidize the 109,631,000 on welfare."

It's the world we live in now though I guess.

Since you didn't give a link I googled that quote and the first result is the fact check of it calling it false. (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/terry-jeffrey/are-there-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/)[QUOTE]A reader asked us to take a closer look at Jeffrey

[DonDadda59]

What the **** do you think I spend my money on? :oldlol:

The same things they do, and you're helping the economy. :applause:

Just pointing out that 'entitlements' aren't the destructive force that some people try to make out. Food stamps and welfare money in the end just gets recycled back into the economy. You can't hoard food stamps or put them into any funds to try to increase your wealth. :oldlol:

It's like Tupac said, 'my mama's welfare check has brought the next man chrome wheels.'

^Tupacenomics :applause:


You think billionaires don't buy shit?

Not the point at all. Just showing how fundamentally flawed the 'trickle down' theory is. George Bush's tenure was the perfect experiment for that model (one which most on the Republican Presidential campaign are STILL pushing :facepalm )- tax breaks for the wealthy, little to no regulation, etc.

And it was a Golden economic era, yes?

[DrakeTheSnake]

Isn't that depressing? Basically, three days out of every two week pay period (two 5-day weeks) goes straight to the government, in which I have zero choice of where it goes.

Welp, it's now Thursday, so at least I will get to keep the money I make today.
You know this is nothing compared to the past. The first half of last century it was nearly 90%.

[poido123]

What the **** do you think I spend my money on? :oldlol:

You think billionaires don't buy shit?

That's why we need to go to a consumption tax. Eliminate all the bullshit, pay taxes on what you purchase.



But doesn't consumption help drive the economy?


If that is the case, would encouraging frugality only work against this?


Since middle and low income earners are the majority, governments know that a consumption tax simply wouldn't be sustainable or have enough weight to it.

[UK2K]

Since you didn't give a link I googled that quote and the first result is the fact check of it calling it false. (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jan/28/terry-jeffrey/are-there-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/)

The poor do pay taxes, they pay payroll taxes. (http://www.cbpp.org/research/misconceptions-and-realities-about-who-pays-taxes) They are less likely to pay income taxes. This is because the way we prefer to deal with poverty, is to give income tax credits. The Earned Income Tax Credit was expanded in 1986, 1990, 1993, 2001, and 2009

A large number of people who get the Earned Income Tax Credit are elderly, disabled or students.



How much of your paycheck is payroll taxes?
It's not false.

It encompasses all means tested welfare benefits. It said flawed, it doesn't say false. There's no arguing with those numbers, is there?

[UK2K]

But doesn't consumption help drive the economy?


If that is the case, would encouraging frugality only work against this?


Since middle and low income earners are the majority, governments know that a consumption tax simply wouldn't be sustainable or have enough weight to it.

For every middle class person who decides they're going to buy the value meat as opposed to the good kind, there's a wealthy billionaire building a yacht that will make up for it.

I would guess very few, if any, people would change their spending habits.

[DrakeTheSnake]

For every middle class person who decides they're going to buy the value meat as opposed to the good kind, there's a wealthy billionaire building a yacht that will make up for it.

I would guess very few, if any, people would change their spending habits.
That doesn't help the economy. That helps the finances of 1 person essentially.

[Norcaliblunt]

For every middle class person who decides they're going to buy the value meat as opposed to the good kind, there's a wealthy billionaire building a yacht that will make up for it.

I would guess very few, if any, people would change their spending habits.

Lmao at that 1:1 ratio.

[poido123]

For every middle class person who decides they're going to buy the value meat as opposed to the good kind, there's a wealthy billionaire building a yacht that will make up for it.

I would guess very few, if any, people would change their spending habits.



There is a reason the system is the way it is.


People will work and work as long as they see a little reward at the end. Keeping people in this state of "slavery to their job" promotes apathy and susceptable to media influence.


what I'm saying is, the government wants you to be in their control. They never want to give the majority of people a feeling of empowerment to ever want to overthrow the government.


That's at least my understanding of why things are the way they are.

[UK2K]

That doesn't help the economy. That helps the finances of 1 person essentially.
They're taxed on the boat.

Do you know what a consumption tax is?

Poor guy buys groceries for $100, he pays 12% in taxes (made up number), he pays $12 in taxes for the groceries.

Rich guy buys a $100 million dollar yacht, he pays 20% (luxury item). He now pays $20 million in taxes on the boat.

That $20 million goes to help everyone. So I assume it just wasn't clear.

[West-Side]

They're taxed on the boat.

Do you know what a consumption tax is?

Poor guy buys groceries for $100, he pays 12% in taxes (made up number), he pays $12 in taxes for the groceries.

Rich guy buys a $100 million dollar yacht, he pays 20% (luxury item). He now pays $20 million in taxes on the boat.

That $20 million goes to help everyone. So I assume it just wasn't clear.

We need to stop creating progressive tax brackets and start holding politicians accountable for the budget. And I'm talking legal matters here.

It's funny how these politicians have the full discretion of deciding what our budget shall be. Yet, if they were actually accountable in distributing that money on social programs instead of taking 20 thousand dollar vacations and buy coffee & donuts amounting to $400 every morning for their meetings; we'd be getting somewhere.

[poido123]

We need to stop creating progressive tax brackets and start holding politicians accountable for the budget. And I'm talking legal matters here.

It's funny how these politicians have the full discretion of deciding what our budget shall be. Yet, if they were actually accountable in distributing that money on social programs instead of taking 20 thousand dollar vacations and buy coffee & donuts amounting to $400 every morning for their meetings; we'd be getting somewhere.



When did that happen?


:roll:



But seriously, this two party thing is annoying.


We need serious competition to rival Liberal and Labor. Both are one in the same, only that every election one counter balances the other.

[West-Side]

When did that happen?


:roll:



But seriously, this two party thing is annoying.


We need serious competition to rival Liberal and Labor. Both are one in the same, only that every election one counter balances the other.

I did an intern gig for city hall.
I know exactly what is going on with these government jobs.

There's a reason why most consider the corporate world to be far more intense; because when you make mistakes, you're actually costing your employer money. When you make mistakes at the government job, "It's okay, we'll just raise the tax next year and have a bigger budget to insure the deficit."

[DonD13]

wow looked it up

income taxes are higher than i thought in the US

although differences from state to state are very high

do you all have progressive tax?


edit: i think i don't get it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_tax_levels_in_the_United_States
how does one interpret for example 72% income taxes in Oregon. Is it really that you give up 72% of you income?

[West-Side]

This is exactly one of the important issues. They are regulating the budget, but they can't even account for their own. :facepalm

The underlying problem with creating governments is the mistake of unaccounted greed.

[poido123]

I did an intern gig for city hall.
I know exactly what is going on with these government jobs.

There's a reason why most consider the corporate world to be far more intense; because when you make mistakes, you're actually costing your employer money. When you make mistakes at the government job, "It's okay, we'll just raise the tax next year and have a bigger budget to insure the deficit."



I've always suspected this to be the case. Wouldn't be surprised if these out of touch pollies joke about this reality to each other in parliament.


We don't have enough people in Australia to care enough to change this(unless a massive coverup or conversation is revealed), we often only react to whatever is hammering the news.


Our government model needs total reform top to bottom. They have been getting away with years of corruption and manipulation of the media.

[DonD13]

The table that you linked shows the income the state gets from each of those taxes.

Washington for instance has no income tax, so 0% of their income comes from that. Washington has extremely high sales tax. 6.2% state wise (not counting local), hence the 80% of their income comes just from that via tax collection. If you add the %'s up, it totals 100% for each state (or should)

You don't give 72% of your income to one state. No one would live in Oregon if that was the case.

oh damn my bad :oldlol:

thanx! Washington has no income tax?

do you by any chance have a table of the actual income taxes?

[DonD13]

Income tax varies state by state.

Washington doesn't have state income tax (although they are leaning to maybe changing that policy). It makes up for it in Business and Occupation Tax and Sales Tax.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-individual-income-tax-rates-and-brackets-2015

There is an excel sheet here for that. Not sure if it's accurate, since I am not well versed on states outside my own.

oh, interesting, thanx mate

how does CA stay so popular attracting all those high income people?

edit: then again, internationally, it's still an reasonable attractive number

edit2: where is OP from?

[KevinNYC]

It's not false.

It encompasses all means tested welfare benefits. It said flawed, it doesn't say false. There's no arguing with those numbers, is there?

Did you miss this at the top of the page? http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-false.gif

Or this at the bottom?
We rate the claim False.




Of course there's arguing with the numbers, when he uses them in a flawed comparison. You can use true facts to make a false argument. It happens all the time in ways both honest (you overlooked something) and dishonest (you discount contrary evidence or make logical leaps. You've heard the quote about "Lies, damn lies and ....."

[KevinNYC]

oh, interesting, thanx mate

how does CA stay so popular attracting all those high income people?
There's thing in life other than tax rates?

I remember years ago a Libertarian organization put out the best places to live and a Libertarian columnist wrote a piece about how he actually lived in like the top one or two place (which I think was a small town in Texas), but he moved to NYC. And he much preferred living in NYC with its higher taxes and more activist government because yes, he paid more in Taxes, but his quality of life was much, much higher now.

[UK2K]

Did you miss this at the top of the page? http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/rulings%2Ftom-false.gif

Or this at the bottom?
We rate the claim False.
Of course there's arguing with the numbers, when he uses them in a flawed comparison. You can use true facts to make a false argument. It happens all the time in ways both honest (you overlooked something) and dishonest (you discount contrary evidence or make logical leaps. You've heard the quote about "Lies, damn lies and ....."


While the claim is based on real numbers, it’s a fundamentally flawed, apples-and-oranges comparison. The number of "welfare" recipients -- unlike the number of workers -- is enlarged by the inclusion of children and senior citizens. The comparison also ignores that many "welfare" recipients actually work, so trying to separate the two categories creates a false dichotomy. We rate the claim False.

They rated it false, but it's not a lie. Not once did the article ever say it wasn't true, it said it was fundamentally flawed, so they rated it false.

Right where it says: "We rate the claim False".

But it never says the claim IS false. Cause it's not. Their argument, and their basis for rating it false, is this, and that, and that, and you can look at it like this, or this.

But not once did it ever say it was false. I read the whole article. You can argue he didn't tell the whole truth, and I will argue that the numbers are factual.

[KevinNYC]

[QUOTE=UK2K][B]While the claim is based on real numbers, it

[UK2K]

Indiana state.

There's state income tax, there's federal income tax, maybe local income tax, and the payroll taxes (SS, Med, and possible employee deducted state taxes)

It also depends on the employee's decision to choose how much of their paycheck they want to withhold pay day to the IRS via W-4. They could in hindsight not pay any federal withholding, but they will pay a huge chunk (and most likely penalties) once they file the return if they owe a huge chunk of money
I pay Marion county taxes as well. I assumed everyone paid county taxes, I have as long as I've held a job. About 2% of my net pay.

[UK2K]

There's thing in life other than tax rates?

I remember years ago a Libertarian organization put out the best places to live and a Libertarian columnist wrote a piece about how he actually lived in like the top one or two place (which I think was a small town in Texas), but he moved to NYC. And he much preferred living in NYC with its higher taxes and more activist government because yes, he paid more in Taxes, but his quality of life was much, much higher now.
Texas has no income tax.

They have a high sales tax, I think 8% IIRC.

So, the consumption tax can be viable to a point. It's not as easy as saying 'everything will be taxed at 10%', but it's much easier to keep track of when it's all laid out.

Wouldn't it be nice to know exactly, to the dollar, how much you owed in taxes every year, simply by looking at your bank statements and adding up the money you spent?

And as I said, you can even adjust the tax for the item. Luxury items could be taxed more, and I really doubt anyone who can afford them is suddenly going to change his mind because of a few extra % on taxes is added on.

[ALBballer]

The issue with consumption tax is it tends to effect the poor more since they have less disposable income.

The tax system in general needs to be simplified. Get rid of preferential tax rates (i.e. Capital vs ordinary), get rid of most deductions including standard deduction and lower income tax rates overall. The system would be easily monitored and the government would be able to compute the tax bill for you by taking your income and maybe making small adjustments and compute the tax bill.

But republicans and democrats don't want that. Republicans want preferential tax rates for capital gains and democrats are In favor of tax credits and itemize deductions. believe it or not I think trump had a decent tax proposal iirc.

[UK2K]

The issue with consumption tax is it tends to effect the poor more since they have less disposable income.

The tax system in general needs to be simplified. Get rid of preferential tax rates (i.e. Capital vs ordinary), get rid of most deductions including standard deduction and lower income tax rates overall. The system would be easily monitored and the government would be able to compute the tax bill for you by taking your income and maybe making small adjustments and compute the tax bill.

But republicans and democrats don't want that. Republicans want preferential tax rates for capital gains and democrats are In favor of tax credits and itemize deductions. believe it or not I think trump had a decent tax proposal iirc.

Maybe, but it doesn't have to.

If it were me, and I was implementing such a plan, I would simply exempt everyone below $X in annual income (Like we do now).

I would also imagine the taxes on items used most by the poor (food, gas) would be taxed much lower than say a new car, or a house, or a plane, or 1000 acre plot of land. You could raise the tax on gas 5 cents a gallon, and nobody on this planet would notice a difference. 5 cents x every gallon of gas sold in this country each day... is a lot.

But again, its based on consumption. You buy less shit (the poor), you pay less taxes. This way, the big spenders pay the big taxes, and the little guys pay less. Everyone pays their fair share.

[imdaman99]

If that is the price of freedom, I'm ok with it.

[UK2K]

If that is the price of freedom, I'm ok with it.

Half the country is certainly okay with that price as well.

The price of $0.

When the price I am okay with paying equals the price they are okay with paying, we may have something.

[Jameerthefear]

28%? :biggums: damn

[UK2K]

28%? :biggums: damn

When I told my dad, he just laughed at me. He pays 34%.

[Godzuki]

try running a business. the average worker thinks they get raped, business's pay 5x's the taxes any average joe does. its insane all of the taxes/fee's there are related to payroll.

the government doesn't do shit for them but collects money like some mafia.

[riseagainst]

yeah my pay check of 5333 gets reduced down to barely 4000.

:(

[KyrieTheFuture]

try running a business. the average worker thinks they get raped, business's pay 5x's the taxes any average joe does. its insane all of the taxes/fee's there are related to payroll.

the government doesn't do shit for them but collects money like some mafia.
Lol

[ALBballer]

28%? :biggums: damn

If 28 percent includes payroll taxes then it's not that much.

Social security and Medicare makes up 9% meaning his federal and state income taxes are around 20%.

Also depends what his withholding is and maybe he is withholding more than needed which would make his income tax even less.

[Jameerthefear]

If 28 percent includes payroll taxes then it's not that much.

Social security and Medicare makes up 9% meaning his federal and state income taxes are around 20%.

Also depends what his withholding is and maybe he is withholding more than needed which would make his income tax even less.
28% of your money seems like a lot to me...

[UK2K]

28% of your money seems like a lot to me...

It is, but as I pointed out, my dad worked hard enough to get to be able to pay 34%.

[poido123]

28% of your money seems like a lot to me...


When you grow up and start paying your own bills, this is actually quite normal.


I'm at about 24%