Hillary Clinton speaking out against gay marriage in 2004

[Nick Young]

"I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman. I have had occasion in my life to defend marriage, to stand up for marriage, to believe in the hard work and challenge of marriage. So I take umbrage at anyone who might suggest that those of us who worry about amending the Constitution are less committed to the sanctity of marriage, or to the fundamental bedrock principle that it exists between a man and a woman, going back into the midst of history as one of the founding, foundational institutions of history and humanity and civilization, and that its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing of children for the society into which they are to become adults."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I


:confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

People conveniently sweep under the rug that Barry was also unwilling to give the gay lobby any acknowledgement when he was running for his first term and for the early portion of that term.

But the thing is, it became clear that his party base's BIGGEST concerns, their most PRIMARY PRIORITIES - were things like gays being allowed to be gay in the military, gay people getting married, gay history taught in school, etc.

Because that other complex stuff about foreign relations and economic dynamics... Too complicated. Everyday libs don't wanna think about any of that. They have gay friends, they want gay rights, and if Democrats will GIVE THEM THAT... they've got a blank check from their constituents for extending the Bush tax cuts, drone strikes, deficits, spying, etc. etc.

It was an incredible opportunity, and the Democratic party opportunistically seized it.

[jongib369]

People do change their mind...Only stubborn, ignorant people can't have an opinion change over a long period of time being exposed to ideas that weren't as common in their day.

My dad told me that if a kid admitted he was gay at my old highdchool, the one she went ti aswell, they would of beat him until he left...But he thinks that's disgusting now

Maybe they changed their opinions for votes, or maybe they actually had a change of thinking. Or hell, both. Either way it's going in the right direction. The "sanctity" of marriage is a bunch of bullshit. There is likely no god, we will die and there will probably be nothing. Good for them for no longer giving a crap who people choose to love with the short amount of time we have

If you want to point out flip flopping for votes, this isn't the issue to bring up

[imdaman99]

Opinions change.

[Nick Young]

People do change their mind...Only stubborn, ignorant people can't have an opinion change over a long period of time being exposed to ideas that weren't as common in their day.

My dad told me that if a kid admitted he was gay at my old highdchool, the one she went ti aswell, they would of beat him until he left...But he thinks that's disgusting now

Maybe they changed their opinions for votes, or maybe they actually had a change of thinking. Either way it's going in the right direction. The "sanctity" of marriage is a bunch of bullshit. There is likely no god, we will die and there will probably be nothing. Good for them for no longer giving a crap who people choose to love with the short amount of time we have

If you want to point out flop flopping for votes, this isn't the issue to bring up
It's actually the exact definition of flip-flopping for votes.:facepalm

[Nick Young]

Opinions change.
Wonder if any of these libcucks would be saying this about Cruz, Rubio or Trump if they said shit like this in 2004:lol

[Akrazotile]

Republicans of course did their part in making it a national issue on the big stage, so that all the people from all across the land were debating whether the federal government should mandate gay marriage rights etc.

The simple, constitutional solution would be to leave it up to the states. If politicians governed with real political ethics, both sides would have simply said "Look, it's a state issue. We're staying out."

Just like they should do with marijuana. And abortion. Etc.


But then how will the average everyday sheep on a message board participate in the national conversation?


Thinking about the complicated important issues and giving an introspective and well-reasoned opinion about it?


http://i.imgur.com/PcwaSTz.jpg

[jongib369]

It's actually the exact definition of flip-flopping for votes.:facepalm
But it was a change in the right direction, who ****ing cares. Bring up other flip flopping examples....Bringing this one up is just silly IMO.

You'd be the guy in the 50's bitching about a politician changing his mind about segregation instead of other important topics. Kinda....weird

[Akrazotile]

Maybe they changed their opinions for votes, or maybe they actually had a change of thinking. Or hell, both. Either way it's going in the right direction. The "sanctity" of marriage is a bunch of bullshit. There is likely no god, we will die and there will probably be nothing. Good for them for no longer giving a crap who people choose to love with the short amount of time we have



Bro, she didn't care about it being a 'sacred bond' the first time, and she doesn't care about it being 'a right for all people' now.

It's called pandering. She doesn't give a shit about marriage one way or another. She's trying to get elected.

[Nick Young]

But it was a change in the right direction, who ****ing cares. Bring up other flip flopping examples....Bringing this one up is just silly IMO.

You'd be the guy in the 50's bitching about a politician changing his mind about segregation instead of other important topics. Kinda....weird
Wrong. I'd be the guy who wants someone in power who was speaking out against segregation from the very beginning.

Not someone who only started speaking out against segregation when they realized it was a trendy thing to do and would get them more votes.

[Akrazotile]

But it was a change in the right direction, who ****ing cares. Bring up other flip flopping examples....Bringing this one up is just silly IMO.

You'd be the guy in the 50's bitching about a politician changing his mind about segregation instead of other important topics. Kinda....weird


With all due respect: You're so incredibly stupid you shouldn't be allowed to breathe.

[jongib369]

With all due respect: You're so incredibly stupid you shouldn't be allowed to breathe.
It's a completely valid point, you'll have to try harder to rustle my jimmies. Go the the go fund me topic, it's easier to rustle them about my girl

:cheers:

[jongib369]

Wrong. I'd be the guy who wants someone in power who was speaking out against segregation from the very beginning.

Not someone who only started speaking out against segregation when they realized it was a trendy thing to do and would get them more votes.
You live in a fantasy land my friend. People can change their mind after being wrong. Sure it'd be better If they held the opinion in the first place. But a change in the right direction is fine

This likely stems from an inflated self ego where you think your opinions now are so sound, you'll always stick to them. And you might, which is sad

[Nick Young]

It's a completely valid point, you'll have to try harder to rustle my jimmies. Go the the go fund me topic, it's easier to rustle them about my girl

:cheers:
Please become a fireman. That way your retardation won't matter, and you'll atleast spend your life helping society.

Good luck becoming a fireman. I hope it works out for you. Because god knows you aren't capable of benefiting society in any other way.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Please become a fireman. That way your retardation won't matter, and you'll atleast spend your life helping society.

Good luck becoming a fireman. I hope it works out for you. Because god knows you aren't capable of benefiting society in any other way.

This shithead :oldlol:

Becoming a fireman and/or EMT takes hard work. A lot of schooling and training. lol at acting like he's working at Mcdonalds.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Wrong. I'd be the guy who wants someone in power who was speaking out against segregation from the very beginning.

Not someone who only started speaking out against segregation when they realized it was a trendy thing to do and would get them more votes.
Sounds like Bernie.

Anyway, dems will argue that people change their mind, and it's important to realize when you're wrong. However, the truth is, any good politician runs on what the people think is right, not what they personally think is right. In 2004, people didn't want gays getting married. Now, they do, so some politicians flipped their script. Some conservatives are clinging to old ways that simply won't be around in 50 years, and they're damaging their party because of it.

[Nick Young]

This shithead :oldlol:

Becoming a fireman and/or EMT takes hard work. A lot of schooling and training. lol at acting like he's working at Mcdonalds.
WRONG. I know it takes hard work. That's why I'm hoping he puts in the work.

I know stupid people who have become firemen and have good careers right now. Hopefully this guy is one of them. I genuinely wish him luck in becoming a fireman. Nowhere did I belittle the profession.

Not every job requires high levels of intelligence. That doesn't mean it's a worthless job.

[Nick Young]

Sounds like Bernie.

Anyway, dems will argue that people change their mind, and it's important to realize when you're wrong. However, the truth is, any good politician runs on what the people think is right, not what they personally think is right. In 2004, people didn't want gays getting married. Now, they do, so some politicians flipped their script. Some conservatives are clinging to old ways that simply won't be around in 50 years, and they're damaging their party because of it.
Has Anderson Cooper ever called out Hillary on her anti-gay stance back in 2004 at one of the TV debates?

I wonder how she'd respond.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

WRONG. I know it takes hard work. That's why I'm hoping he puts in the work.

I know stupid people who have become firemen and have good careers right now. Hopefully this guy is one of them. I genuinely wish him luck in becoming a fireman. Nowhere did I belittle the profession.

Not every job requires high levels of intelligence. That doesn't mean it's a worthless job.

You called him out, saying he wouldn't benefit society any other way. The implication is that becoming a firefighter doesn't require "any brains", when in actuality, you gotta study and take exams on the daily. Then there's training and actually getting hired.

Having average intelligence would be an understatement, especially when lives are on the line. Someone with a room temperature iq like yourself wouldn't understand that though.

[MMKM]

Hilary Clinton is a mess. It's amazing that she actually went to law school. She even once said that all women should be believed when they accuse men of rape until evidence proves they are lying. The exact opposite of our legal system. This woman is dumber than dirt, hopefully she gets caught in her own web of double-standards.

[Nick Young]

You called him out, saying he wouldn't benefit society any other way. The implication is that becoming a firefighter doesn't require "any brains", when in actuality, you gotta study and take exams on the daily. Then there's training and actually getting hired.

Having average intelligence would be an understatement, especially when lives are on the line. Someone with a room temperature iq like yourself wouldn't understand that though.
Being a fireman requires some brains, but I know some supreme dumbasses who have passed the firefighter test and currently have a great career as firefighters.

You certainly don't have to be a genius to pass these tests.

What, you have to train and take exams to become a firefighter? Holy shit no way bro! R U SERIOUS?

Nowhere did I say being a fireman was a crappy job. You are projecting here and creating strawman arguments.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Being a fireman requires some brains, but I know some supreme dumbasses who have passed the firefighter test and currently have a great career as firefighters.

You certainly don't have to be a genius to pass these tests.

What, you have to train and take exams to become a firefighter? Holy shit no way bro! R U SERIOUS?

No, instead you claimed he wouldn't benefit society any other way than "putting out fires".

I don't think you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Then again, you're a gimmick rubbing your ***** after every post you make.

[Nick Young]

No, instead you claimed he wouldn't benefit society any other way than "putting out fires".

I don't think you realize how ridiculous that sounds. Then again, you're a gimmick rubbing your ***** after every post you make.
That's because he is a retard, based on his gofundme thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=392568). In there he moans about his minimum wage job and talks about wanting to become a fireman. I am trying to encourage him to become a fireman, because it's an actual productive job he is capable of doing if he works for it. I am encouraging him to spend his time doing that rather than waste time begging for money on his gofundme page.


You are arguing against your own invented words that you are projecting on to me.

You are effectively arguing with yourself right now.

Congratulations.:cheers:

[ShaqTwizzle]

Clinton is a literal piece of garbage and doesn't give a single **** about America.

Guess who her biggest funder during this election has been?
George Soros...
:facepalm

Long story short no real American would ever dare vote for Hillary.

[Nick Young]

Do we really want this homophobic woman leading our nation?:confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

It's amazing watching Democrats pretend they want Shillary in office, just because she's aligned with the Dem party and has name cache.

"HOPE HOPE HOPE CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!"

Yeah, Hillary will def change the status quo. :oldlol: No more corporations, no more poverty, gay utopia, liberal paradise.

Hillary is the opposite of politics as usual. For reallz u guys. Hillary IS the Revolution.

[Nick Young]

Hilldawg, the pro-Patriot Act pro-Iraqi war anti-gay politician AKA the Dems top candidate.

"Women are the primary victims of war"

Disgusting

[Nick Young]

Note that "LGBT rights" and gay marriage are two of Clinton's biggest talking points these days. She is shameless and her followers are morons.

[Nick Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZkK2_6H9MM

[Dresta]

People do change their mind...Only stubborn, ignorant people can't have an opinion change over a long period of time being exposed to ideas that weren't as common in their day.

My dad told me that if a kid admitted he was gay at my old highdchool, the one she went ti aswell, they would of beat him until he left...But he thinks that's disgusting now

Maybe they changed their opinions for votes, or maybe they actually had a change of thinking. Or hell, both. Either way it's going in the right direction. The "sanctity" of marriage is a bunch of bullshit. There is likely no god, we will die and there will probably be nothing. Good for them for no longer giving a crap who people choose to love with the short amount of time we have

If you want to point out flip flopping for votes, this isn't the issue to bring up
lol @ you not realising that a politician without principles, whose opinion changes with the tide of public opinion, is not to be trusted.

It looks like you've got the world completely figured out there, congrats. I'm sure you're right, and marriage isn't important at all: it's not like it provides the very soil from which civilized society grows or anything.

I hope you are very young, because you strike me as being incredibly naive. The cultural war on marriage and the family, of which gay marriage is only an insignificant offshoot, has wrecked a lot of societal damage, in a lot of places. The functions of the family being replaced by those of the state is a sure sign of decadence and decay. You've gone from a nation of fairly autonomous and self-sufficient family units to a nation of dependent children, reared and bred by the government and mass-media.

Not a positive change imho, and technology can only compensate so much (and actually makes these problems worse in a lot of respects).

[blablabla]

Opinions change.
/thread

[ThePhantomCreep]

lol @ the GOP shill OP.

I'll take a politician who flip-flops in the right direction over a pack of idiots (like the GOP field) who continue to defend laughably outdated policies any day.

All politicians pander, it's the ones who pander to the Religious Right that can eat a shit sandwich, hold the bread.

[Nick Young]

lol @ the GOP shill OP.

I'll take a politician who flip-flops in the right direction over a pack of idiots (like the GOP field) who continue to defend laughably outdated policies any day.

All politicians pander, it's the ones who pander to the Religious Right that can eat a shit sandwich, hold the bread.
If you want to put a self-confessed homophobe in to office, that is on you:cheers:

I'm far from a "GOP shill". I have never voted Republican in my entire life.

[ThePhantomCreep]

If you want to put a self-confessed homophobe in to office, that is on you:cheers:

I'm far from a "GOP shill". I have never voted Republican in my entire life.

Who are you fooling? You're an obvious GOP partisan hack.

The current crop of Republican candidates are unanimously against same-sex marriage right now, but screw that, let's go after Hillary for her opinion from 12 years ago. :wtf:

[Nick Young]

Who are you fooling? You're an obvious GOP partisan hack.

The current crop of Republican candidates are unanimously against same-sex marriage right now, but screw that, let's go after Hillary for her opinion from 12 years ago. :wtf:
Repeatedly calling me a "GOP partisan hack" is not going to make me one.

Many repubs are against gay marriage. So was Hilldawg.

The difference is the Repubs stand by their beliefs. Hilldawg shamelessly does whatever it takes to pander for votes.

Your girl has a similar pro-war voting record to George W. Bush, breh. Do some research before you waste your vote putting sociopath Hilldawg in to power.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Repeatedly calling me a "GOP partisan hack" is not going to make me one.

Many repubs are against gay marriage. So was Hilldawg.
The difference is the Repubs stand by their beliefs. Hilldawg shamelessly does whatever it takes to pander for votes.

Your girl has a similar pro-war voting record to George W. Bush, breh. Do some research before you waste your vote putting sociopath Hilldawg in to power.

So did Hitler, so did Stalin, so does ISIS. Standing by your beliefs isn't a virtue in and of itself, hack.

You're wrong btw. Republicans flip-flop and pander all the time--they're the worst offenders. You think a Harvard intellectual like Ted Cruz actually believes in all that mumbo jumbo found in the Bible? He even said 9/11 turned him on to country music. :roll: That's some shameless pandering right there.

[Nick Young]

So did Hitler, so did Stalin, so does ISIS. Standing by your beliefs isn't a virtue in and of itself, hack.

You're wrong btw. Republicans flip-flop and pander all the time--they're the worst offenders. You think a Harvard intellectual like Ted Cruz actually believes in all that mumbo jumbo found in the Bible? He even said 9/11 turned him on to country music. :roll: That's some shameless pandering right there.
You're right. Standing by your beliefs isn't always a virtue. But the world isn't black and white.

Republicans do flip flop and pander all the time. Like I said, I don't really like the republican party and I've never voted for one and am not planning on it.

The Dems and Repubs are both moderate conservative parties that pretty much agree on all the same shit.

What's wrong if Ted Cruz likes country music? I didn't like Bruce Springsteen, now I think he's one of the best songwriters ever.


Music taste changing is different from someone being vehemently against gay marriage, and then making LGBT rights one of their top platforms 10 years later when they decide to run for president. That is shameless.

[Dresta]

So did Hitler, so did Stalin, so does ISIS. Standing by your beliefs isn't a virtue in and of itself, hack.

You're wrong btw. Republicans flip-flop and pander all the time--they're the worst offenders. You think a Harvard intellectual like Ted Cruz actually believes in all that mumbo jumbo found in the Bible? He even said 9/11 turned him on to country music. :roll: That's some shameless pandering right there.
Look, you've obviously never seriously read or considered the Bible, even for a second - so why do you keep talking about something you know nothing about? What is it with you ideological fanatics, always pronouncing and condemning and moralising about the rightness of things, when you have no objective basis on which to base such opinions?

The fanaticism of you and your ilk really goes to show that people will be fanatical with or without their religions. You are a textbook religious fanatic (a warrior for the enforcement of moral orthodoxy), sans the religion.

[LBJFTW]

My dad told me that if a kid admitted he was gay at my old highdchool, the one she went ti aswell, they would of beat him until he left...But he thinks that's disgusting now

Humans are the laughing stock of the cosmic universe and this is a prime example. So it was OK to think a certain way back then but now that way of thinking is wrong? What caused such a shift in the thought process you ask?

It's called going with the flow and not standing up for what you believe in based on social pressure. Humans are sheep, so if the media tells them "hey, being gay is the new cool, hip thing to to" then they are just going to run with it.

"well I thought it was OK back then but now I realize I was wrong"

Maybe judges should let criminals off the hook every time they give that line.:eek:

[Dresta]

Humans are the laughing stock of the cosmic universe and this is a prime example. So it was OK to think a certain way back then but now that way of thinking is wrong? What caused such a shift in the thought process you ask?

It's called going with the flow and not standing up for what you believe in based on social pressure. Humans are sheep, so if the media tells them "hey, being gay is the new cool, hip thing to to" then they are just going to run with it.

"well I thought it was OK back then but now I realize I was wrong"

Maybe judges should let criminals off the hook every time they give that line.:eek:
One wonders how, in this 'morality is eternally mutable' world of theirs, they can consider their own morality to be at all moral, when it simply changes according to the conveniences of the era (but they also know what the "right" direction of moral change is, but they don't mention how they know this, or why now is the time to change :confusedshrug:).

Very strange. Though it an pleasant irony that so many of these people are busy denouncing Christianity in the name of....Christianity.

:hammerhead:

[ThePhantomCreep]

One wonders how, in this 'morality is eternally mutable' world of theirs, they can consider their own morality to be at all moral, when it simply changes according to the conveniences of the era (but they also know what the "right" direction of moral change is, but they don't mention how they know this, or why now is the time to change :confusedshrug:).

Very strange. Though it an pleasant irony that so many of these people are busy denouncing Christianity in the name of....Christianity.

:hammerhead:

It's easy to figure out what the correct position is on a social issue--ask conservatives for their opinion on it. The correct position is the opposite of that.

History has proven over and over again that the conservative position is wrong on virtually all social issues. Just look at a few of the freedoms Southern conservatives (modern day Republicans) have opposed throughout our nation’s history:

Freeing the slaves
Allowing women to vote
Desegregation
Interracial marriage
The Civil Rights Act
The Voting Rights Act
Women’s rights
Same-sex marriage

The tide never changed on any of these issues, vindicating the progressive position on them. One day we'll look back at the conservative position on climate change and shake our heads at how stupid (and incorrect) it was. It's inevitable.

[Nick Young]

[QUOTE=ThePhantomCreep]It's easy to figure out what the right position is on a social issue--ask conservatives for their opinion on it, and do the opposite.

History has proven over and over again that the conservative position is wrong on virtually all social issues. Just look at a few of the freedoms Southern conservatives (modern day Republicans) have opposed throughout our nation

[ThePhantomCreep]

The Dems were the ones who were pro-slavery bro:lol

The Democrats were the conservatives of that era :no:. They were for low taxes and "states rights". They were the status-quo party on fiscal and social issues.

This has been explained to you before, GOP hack.

[Nick Young]

The Democrats were the conservatives of that era :no:. They were for low taxes and "states rights". They were the status-quo party on fiscal and social issues.

This has been explained to you before, GOP hack.
This goes to show that the Repubs and the Dems are close to being the same party. Both are moderate conservative parties. Both agree on all the same shit except surfacey social issues.

Why are you so desperate for me to be a "GOP hack"? I don't support any of the Republican candidates. Jim Webb for me is the perfect candidate for president, but the Dems wanted warmonger Hilldawg instead of him, so what can you do?

Why do you hate "GOP hacks" when they want close to the same shit the Dems want?


Do do realize that all of these politicians are friends behind the scenes and party together right?

I don't know if it's Daily Show brainwash or what, but you speak like you know what you're talking about when it's clear you have no clue.

[Patrick Chewing]

lol @ the GOP shill OP.

I'll take a politician who flip-flops in the right direction over a pack of idiots (like the GOP field) who continue to defend laughably outdated policies any day.

All politicians pander, it's the ones who pander to the Religious Right that can eat a shit sandwich, hold the bread.


You're an idiot. She's pandering for votes! Everyone knows the youth vote is an important vote and the youth of today are pro-gay, anti-guns, anti-Freedom of Speech and anti-White. That's why she's always changing her accent depending on what part of the country she's in.

She's the worst politician imaginable.

[Nick Young]

You're an idiot. She's pandering for votes! Everyone knows the youth vote is an important vote and the youth of today are pro-gay, anti-guns, anti-Freedom of Speech and anti-White. That's why she's always changing her accent depending on what part of the country she's in.

She's the worst politician imaginable.
Yes, she is more shameless than the average politician. She is also on record as saying "women are the primary victims of war."

[Dresta]

It's easy to figure out what the correct position is on a social issue--ask conservatives for their opinion on it. The correct position is the opposite of that.

History has proven over and over again that the conservative position is wrong on virtually all social issues. Just look at a few of the freedoms Southern conservatives (modern day Republicans) have opposed throughout our nation’s history:

Freeing the slaves
Allowing women to vote
Desegregation
Interracial marriage
The Civil Rights Act
The Voting Rights Act
Women’s rights
Same-sex marriage

The tide never changed on any of these issues, vindicating the progressive position on them. One day we'll look back at the conservative position on climate change and shake our heads at how stupid (and incorrect) it was. It's inevitable.Oh right, so i take it we've reached the end of history then? Or do you really view history through such a narrow lens, as if only the past 150 years have any relevance? :roll:

How has history "proven" anything exactly? Are you running the counterfactuals through the simulator now or something?

I swear, your narrow-mindedness is quite impressive, so let me briefly illustrate to you why these things are not so simple. Leftists commonly take the cause of the environment as their own, but if we truly are on the path to environmental self-destruction, then there were a lot of conservatives from 400-500 years ago who were far more "right" than those who now defend the cause of same-sex marriage as if that means something.

Your distinctions are so childish and naive: it's like you think history runs on a great pendulum from right to left, and that everyone's views, all throughout history, can be plotted somewhere on this right/left spectrum :lol. You do know that Americans opposed freeing the slaves simply because it wasn't in their power to do so, and those most in favour were religious radicals who claimed there to be a "higher law" than the Constitution? Then again, the Whig party was generally considered to be more conservative than the Democrat Party of Jackson, and yet it was the former that was more strongly opposed to slavery (gosh!). For you, voting rights are the most important things in world history! Far more important than rejecting the ideologies that consumed Russia and Europe during the 20th century, and which could've plunged the whole world into darkness if not for the conservatives of Britain and the USA who actually valued their own traditions. How would we have done if the UK had become Jacobin in 1800, or the USA Communist in 1930? What was stopping them from becoming these things? Only the conservative-minded people in those countries who cared enough about their own inherited institutions and traditions to reject the ideologies that sought to destroy them. The rule of law and jury trial have always been more important for liberty than the bloody vote - which is really the most overrated and overblown achievement in human history.

I think you'll find that history isn't anything like as simple as you're making it out to be. But that's not surprising because you don't come across as someone who knows anything about history at all, and so you simplify to fill in the gaps and provide yourself with a worldview that makes you feel good about the world and to better understand your place in it.

[Dresta]

The Democrats were the conservatives of that era :no:. They were for low taxes and "states rights". They were the status-quo party on fiscal and social issues.

This has been explained to you before, GOP hack.
So this clown is now trying to say that Hamilton was less of a conservative than Jefferson? John Adams less of a conservative than Tom Paine too perhaps?

You're too much dude.

[Nick Young]

Yep. If ThePhantomCreep knew anything about history, he'd know that Christianity was one of the first religions in the world to outlaw and fight against slavery.

The dude obviously hasn't read the bible. Even if you don't believe any of the stuff about God, there is a lot of common sense basic wisdom in that book. The Book of Job is universally considered one of the greatest works of literature in human history. There's a reason the bible inspired the creation of some of the greatest works of art, writing, poetry, philosophy, and architecture in human history.

ThePhantomCreep, even if you think the bible is retarded, do you appreciate the fact that the words and ideas in the book directly lead to the ending of human slavery in the Western world? You can't say the same about those Dan Brown books you love so much.


Even if Jesus was a fictional character, he's a fictional character whose ideas certainly lead to many real world positive changes.

The Hagia Sophia, Notre Dame, the paintings of El Greco, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, His Dark Materials, and many other great works of art wouldn't exist without the bible.

Only a true ignoramus would clown on the bible. Even if you look at it purely as a work of fiction, it's an all time great work of fiction that has remained popular for over a millenium.

Saying the Bible is a bad book and mocking it is the same as mocking War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. It's pure retard-speak.

[ThePhantomCreep]

You're an idiot. She's pandering for votes! Everyone knows the youth vote is an important vote and the youth of today are pro-gay, anti-guns, anti-Freedom of Speech and anti-White. That's why she's always changing her accent depending on what part of the country she's in.

She's the worst politician imaginable.

Strong reading comprehension, asshat. I even bolded "All politicians pander" and you still missed it. :facepalm

LOL @ sticking "anti-freedom of speech" and "anti-white" in there as if that's remotely true. How is she anti-herself, genius? Because she doesn't retweet anti-black statistics from a neo-Nazi website like Trump? Because she isn't calling for the ban of 1.6 billion people? Because she doesn't use purgatives like "anchor babies", implying they're not real Americans, when they have all the rights of a US-born citizen? Keep reaching.

Trump panders to a different (more loathsome) crowd than Hillary, but he panders just the same.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Yep. If ThePhantomCreep knew anything about history, he'd know that Christianity was one of the first religions in the world to outlaw and fight against slavery.

The dude obviously hasn't read the bible. Even if you don't believe any of the stuff about God, there is a lot of common sense basic wisdom in that book. The Book of Job is universally considered one of the greatest works of literature in human history. There's a reason it has inspired the creation of some of the greatest works of art, writing, poetry, philosophy, and architecture in human history.

ThePhantomCreep, even if you think the bible is retarded, do you appreciate the fact that the words and ideas in the book directly lead to the ending of human slavery in the Western world? You can't say the same about those Dan Brown books you love so much.


Even if Jesus was a fictional character, he's a fictional character whose ideas certainly lead to many real world positive changes.

The Hagia Sophia, Notre Dame, the paintings of El Greco, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, His Dark Materials, and many other great works of art wouldn't exist without the bible.

Only a true ignoramus would clown on the bible. Even if you look at it purely as a work of fiction, it's an all time great work of fiction that has remained popular for over a millenium.

Saying the Bible is a bad book and mocking it is the same as mocking War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. It's pure retard-speak.


Touts the Bible as an expertly written book...singles out the Book of Job, wherein God allows Satan to ruin Job's life over a bet.

:facepalm

All that was missing was Satan handing God a dollar after Job remained faithful.

http://www.gamegrin.com/assets/Uploads/ubisoft-2.jpg

I don't think I need to explain how unsympathetic this makes God look, do I? Would you allow someone to torture your child to settle a bet?

This is poorly written fiction, dude. Someone should have handed these Bible writers a copy of Aristotles Poetics.

[Nick Young]

Touts the Bible as an expertly written book...singles out the Book of Job, wherein God allows Satan to ruin Job's life over a bet.

:facepalm

All that was missing was Satan handing God a dollar after Job remained faithful.

http://www.gamegrin.com/assets/Uploads/ubisoft-2.jpg

I don't think I need to explain how bad this unsympathetic this makes God look, do I? Would you allow someone to torture your child to settle a bet?

Someone should have handed these Bible writers a copy of Aristotles Poetics.
That's the point of the book dude. It makes you ask questions about things. Sometimes bad shit happens to good people.

The book of Job is universally regarded as one of the greatest books ever written. You're a moron if you're going to try to dispute that, especially considering you've never read it. It has been called the greatest poem of ancient and modern times for a reason. If it was shitty literature, it would not have lasted for over 2,600 years and had the cultural impact that it did.

God in the bible is not an idealized goody-two shoes. Did you think he was?


Is the Grapes of Wrath a bad book because California doesn't turn out to be the paradise the Joads thought it would be?

Your argument here is retarded-just like all your arguments.

"LOL GOD IS A DICK, THE BIBLE IS A BAD BOOK CUS GOD'S A MEANIE POO!"

The world isn't strawberries and cream breh. That's kind of the whole point of the Book of Job.

The bible wasn't written with the intention to make God "sympathetic". If you think that's the point of the Old and New Testament, well I wouldn't be surprised because it fits with the rest of the retarded ideas you've bleated out on this forum.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Yep. If ThePhantomCreep knew anything about history, he'd know that Christianity was one of the first religions in the world to outlaw and fight against slavery.

The dude obviously hasn't read the bible. Even if you don't believe any of the stuff about God, there is a lot of common sense basic wisdom in that book. The Book of Job is universally considered one of the greatest works of literature in human history. There's a reason the bible inspired the creation of some of the greatest works of art, writing, poetry, philosophy, and architecture in human history.

ThePhantomCreep, even if you think the bible is retarded, do you appreciate the fact that the words and ideas in the book directly lead to the ending of human slavery in the Western world? You can't say the same about those Dan Brown books you love so much.


Even if Jesus was a fictional character, he's a fictional character whose ideas certainly lead to many real world positive changes.

The Hagia Sophia, Notre Dame, the paintings of El Greco, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, His Dark Materials, and many other great works of art wouldn't exist without the bible.

Only a true ignoramus would clown on the bible. Even if you look at it purely as a work of fiction, it's an all time great work of fiction that has remained popular for over a millenium.

Saying the Bible is a bad book and mocking it is the same as mocking War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. It's pure retard-speak.


This is BS, humans are creative and inquisitive by nature--arts and architecture existed long before Christianity came to the fore.

Christianity has impeded progress (especially science) far more often than not--there's a reason the peak of their rule is known as the "Dark Ages" :lol .

Why not list all the ways Christianity impeded science and progress? It's quite extensive, and they keep adding to the list to this day.

Jesus was a well-written character, I'll give you that. His philosophy is also completely at odds with the values Republicans represent. If Jesus were alive today, he'd get the "socialist" tag for sure.

[Nick Young]

Christianity has impeded progress (especially science) far more often than not--there's a reason the peak of their rule is known as the "Dark Ages" :lol .

You do know that Byzantium was in its prime at the same time as the "Dark ages" right?


Every time you write something, you say something more retarded.

Go read some history books dude. You're not doing your beloved Democratic party any favors by acting as their internet message board poster boy.


Why not list all the ways Christianity impeded science and progress? It's quite extensive, and they keep adding to the list to this day.

Please enlighten me. I was always under the impression that the church sponsored and funded every single one of the first universities in Europe.

[ThePhantomCreep]

That's the point of the book dude. It makes you ask questions about things. Sometimes bad shit happens to good people.

It makes you question the mental state of God, that's for sure. He's pretty much a psycho.

Would you let your worst enemy torture your child to settle a bet? That's basically what God does in the Book of Job.


The book of Job is universally regarded as one of the greatest books ever written. It is?


If it was shitty literature, it would not have lasted for over 2,600 years and had the cultural impact that it did.Religious indoctrination is the reason for all that cultural impact, not superior storytelling. Most of the Old Testament is unreadable--most people skip to the New Testament after Deuteronomy :lol


God in the bible is not an idealized goody-two shoes.

Are you stupid? God is glorified as a PERFECT, WISE, and LOVING throughout. It's the running theme of the whole damn book.

God is supposed to be all-loving, but then he commits atrocities that would shame Hitler. These contradictions are the product of bad storytelling. Primitive storytelling, actually.



Is the Grapes of Wrath a bad book because California doesn't turn out to be the paradise the Joads thought it would be?:facepalm The Bible isn't bad because bad stuff happens to good people.



The world isn't strawberries and cream breh. That's kind of the whole point of the Book of Job.Job needed to be purposely tortured to make this point? God allowed Satan to kill of Job's kids. Job actually got off easy in this bet.


The bible wasn't written with the intention to make God "sympathetic".Yes, it was, but the execution was terrible. Did George Lucas write it?

[Nick Young]

It makes you question the mental state of God, that's for sure. He's pretty much a psycho.

Would you let your worst enemy torture your child to settle a bet? That's basically what God does in the Book of Job.

It is?

Religious indoctrination is the reason for all that cultural impact, not superior storytelling. Most of the Old Testament is unreadable--most people skip to the New Testament after Deuteronomy :lol



Are you stupid? God is glorified as a PERFECT, WISE, and LOVING throughout. It's the running theme of the whole damn book.

God is supposed to be all-loving, but then he commits atrocities that would shame Hitler. These contradictions are the product of bad storytelling. Primitive storytelling, actually.


:facepalm The Bible isn't bad because bad stuff happens to good people.


Job needed to be purposely tortured to make this point? God allowed Satan to kill of Job's kids. Job actually got off easy in this bet.

Yes, it was, but the execution was terrible. Did George Lucas write it?
God is not a human, dude. God doesn't have a "mental state". I don't think you are a very intelligent human being. I'm going to put you on the ignore list where you and other retards on this site belong. Your retardation is not worth my time.

[ThePhantomCreep]

You do know that Byzantium was in its prime at the same time as the "Dark ages" right?


Every time you write something, you say something more retarded.

Go read some history books dude. You're not doing your beloved Democratic party any favors by acting as their internet message board poster boy.



Please enlighten me. I was always under the impression that the church sponsored and funded every single one of the first universities in Europe.

How long before this toolbox credits the industrial and scientific revolutions to Christianity? :facepalm

When Christians took over Europe, they abandoned all the progress made by the Roman Empire. That alone was a massive step back in terms of progress. They oppressed education for the masses, banned philosophy, and arrested scientists.

Science slowed to a crawl during the Dark Ages, then sped up during the Age of Enlightenment. Take a guess when the Church began to lose its power?

Religion, by nature, discourages curiosity and despises free thought. It is a natural fit for conservatives, who dislike these things as well. It's why they still believe the Christian God is real, climate change is fake (a liberal creation), and our planet is only 10,000 years old. No change, no progress.

[ThePhantomCreep]

God is not a human, dude. God doesn't have a "mental state". I don't think you are a very intelligent human being. I'm going to put you on the ignore list where you and other retards on this site belong. Your retardation is not worth my time.

Truth hurts, don't it? :pimp:

[Verticality]

Yeah. She is a true politician. A puppet if you will. Still, her current stance to get elected is better than the current stance of those catering to the right. One of the many reasons why we need Bernie.

[Dresta]

Yep. If ThePhantomCreep knew anything about history, he'd know that Christianity was one of the first religions in the world to outlaw and fight against slavery.

The dude obviously hasn't read the bible. Even if you don't believe any of the stuff about God, there is a lot of common sense basic wisdom in that book. The Book of Job is universally considered one of the greatest works of literature in human history. There's a reason the bible inspired the creation of some of the greatest works of art, writing, poetry, philosophy, and architecture in human history.

ThePhantomCreep, even if you think the bible is retarded, do you appreciate the fact that the words and ideas in the book directly lead to the ending of human slavery in the Western world? You can't say the same about those Dan Brown books you love so much.


Even if Jesus was a fictional character, he's a fictional character whose ideas certainly lead to many real world positive changes.

The Hagia Sophia, Notre Dame, the paintings of El Greco, The Divine Comedy, Paradise Lost, His Dark Materials, and many other great works of art wouldn't exist without the bible.

Only a true ignoramus would clown on the bible. Even if you look at it purely as a work of fiction, it's an all time great work of fiction that has remained popular for over a millenium.

Saying the Bible is a bad book and mocking it is the same as mocking War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. It's pure retard-speak.
You forgot all of Shakespeare. The Bible is effectively the very basis of the English language, which is the only language this guy speaks. That's why, no matter how angry atheists get, they can't escape the fact that Christianity is in them and a part of them, whether they like it or not. There's a reason why secular ideologies are so often deformities of Christian doctrine, so much so that this guy just called Jesus 'a socialist.' The Bible is the most important and most influential book in history, and one does not need to be religious to recognise that:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12205084

Even Obama's manner of speaking is lifted directly from MLK, who acquired it through an intimate knowledge of the cadences of the Bible (Obama is just copying, the cheap imitation that he is). The fact that Sunday is different to other days of the week (though it used to be far more so) is an offshoot of Christianity; the very year we live in (how many people are aware of what Anno Domini actually means?) is also a result of Christian faith. There are just so many ways in which Christianity has distorted and moulded the perceptions and moral judgements of people who now repudiate it as 'bare stoopid.'


How long before this toolbox credits the industrial and scientific revolutions to Christianity? :facepalm

When Christians took over Europe, they abandoned all the progress made by the Roman Empire. That alone was a massive step back in terms of progress. They oppressed education for the masses, banned philosophy, and arrested scientists.

Science slowed to a crawl during the Dark Ages, then sped up during the Age of Enlightenment. Take a guess when the Church began to lose its power?

Religion, by nature, discourages curiosity and despises free thought. It is a natural fit for conservatives, who dislike these things as well. It's why they still believe the Christian God is real, climate change is fake (a liberal creation), and our planet is only 10,000 years old. No change, no progress.


This is BS, humans are creative and inquisitive by nature--arts and architecture existed long before Christianity came to the fore.

Christianity has impeded progress (especially science) far more often than not--there's a reason the peak of their rule is known as the "Dark Ages" :lol .

Why not list all the ways Christianity impeded science and progress? It's quite extensive, and they keep adding to the list to this day.

Jesus was a well-written character, I'll give you that. His philosophy is also completely at odds with the values Republicans represent. If Jesus were alive today, he'd get the "socialist" tag for sure.

lol, it's like reading the cliched ravings of a 5 year old. Just so ignorant in so many respects, and these are conclusions you clearly have not come to yourself, because you're simply parroting what (not very intelligent) commentators on religion have said in the past.

How don't you know, for example, that Christianity was the official religion of the Roman Empire when it fell, and that most of what was preserved from antiquity, was preserved by the Church (which also adopted the language of the Roman Empire, which became the intellectually unifying language for all the educated of Europe). Contrary to what you may think, the Church didn't actually have much power in the true 'Dark Ages' which is the 7-10th centuries - what is oft described as The Middle Ages, was actually Europe emerging from the darkness the collapse of Rome, and the chaos that followed, plunged Europe into. At this time, power lay primarily with the Barons and nobles, who had the power to make war, and were organised as a means to protect masses of defenceless people in a chaotic and barbaric era (this is why guns were important btw: they diffused this power).

And what is this nonsense exactly?: 'They oppressed education for the masses, banned philosophy, and arrested scientists.'

Wha-what? Who is 'they' and how did the 'oppress education for the masses' (fyi it was the Church that first brought education to the masses)? You've ignored that Platonic philosophy was incorporated into Christianity very early on (as Aristotle was later). You've overlooked that public education in America was driven by the Puritanical New Englanders, which is actually why Massachusetts had a higher literacy rate in 1850 than it does today, after John Dewey and his secular minions took hold of the reigns of education - education of the masses has steeply declined ever since the State took over the educating of the young from the religious. And it was the religious who established the first laws that 'are commonly regarded as the historical first step toward compulsory government-directed public education in the United States of America.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_School_Laws

If you read the actual laws you will see they are steeped in religious language, and formed on the basis of religious pretexts. How do you not know all this? Because you're an ignorant bumpkin who can't live without certainty.

If i ever need a standard bearer for the title of 'most literal-minded person i've ever come across,' i'll think of you, ThePhantomCreep.

[Terahite]

It makes you question the mental state of God, that's for sure. He's pretty much a psycho.

Would you let your worst enemy torture your child to settle a bet? That's basically what God does in the Book of Job.

You sound like a college-educated bore. You know nothing about scripture. Or free will. You've done no reading (in history, theology, etc.) Just regurgitating stock one-liners aimed at religion and faith. You bring absolutely nothing to the table. Just stop. :facepalm

[Nick Young]

You sound like a college-educated bore. You know nothing about scripture. Or free will. You've done no reading (in history, theology, etc.) Just regurgitating stock one-liners aimed at religion and faith. You bring absolutely nothing to the table. Just stop. :facepalm
He doesn't sound college educated. He sounds like a 15 year old who just read about Karl Marx on wikipedia for the first time.

[NumberSix]

Yeah. She is a true politician. A puppet if you will. Still, her current stance to get elected is better than the current stance of those catering to the right. One of the many reasons why we need Bernie.
Why? Because he'll give you other people's money?

[niko]

The fact Hillary is disingenuous isn't exactly surprising (to anyone of any part anywhere). But IF she really did change her mind, over 11 years, isn't that ok?

One of the things about the people on this board in general i find ridiculous is the thought you need to have an opinion, and defend it to the death, even if presented with facts to the contrary. Smart people don't do that. This is a issue that you could adjust with as you learn more.

Although it's Hillary and I'm well aware she just followed the tide...

[niko]

This goes to show that the Repubs and the Dems are close to being the same party. Both are moderate conservative parties. Both agree on all the same shit except surfacey social issues.

Why are you so desperate for me to be a "GOP hack"? I don't support any of the Republican candidates. Jim Webb for me is the perfect candidate for president, but the Dems wanted warmonger Hilldawg instead of him, so what can you do?

Why do you hate "GOP hacks" when they want close to the same shit the Dems want?


Do do realize that all of these politicians are friends behind the scenes and party together right?

I don't know if it's Daily Show brainwash or what, but you speak like you know what you're talking about when it's clear you have no clue.

It actually says no such thing. The Democrats and Republicans of the civil war era were not representative of the same issues they are now. They both changed. The fact they both changed doesn't mean they are the same. What the **** kind of logic is that?

[Nick Young]

It actually says no such thing. The Democrats and Republicans of the civil war era were not representative of the same issues they are now. They both changed. The fact they both changed doesn't mean they are the same. What the **** kind of logic is that?
The current Dems and Repubs are both moderate conservative parties. They both agree on all of the big issues. They disagree on surfacey social issues that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Repub and Dem politicians are all buddies with each other and they all party together when the TV cameras aren't there.

[ArbitraryWater]

Ya'll seen Hillary doing this black face thing?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYw3eh7WYAAP47c.jpg

Not sure if its been confirmed real though.

[Nick Young]

Ya'll seen Hillary doing this black face thing?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYw3eh7WYAAP47c.jpg

Not sure if its been confirmed real though.
That doesn't look like her, are you sure it isn't one of Baller Bill's mistresses?

[Nick Young]

Now she is running on a pro-LGBT platform :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Hillary voters-do you feel good voting for a pro-Iraq War homophobe who thinks black people are "superpredators"?

[Verticality]

Why? Because he'll give you other people's money?
I don't need other peoples' money, but helping people who struggled is good for society as a whole. We have socialized education systems because it is good for society. Do you hate that too? Should it be pay for your own kids school and not care for those who can't afford it?

[Riks]

Ya'll seen Hillary doing this black face thing?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYw3eh7WYAAP47c.jpg

Not sure if its been confirmed real though.
That does not look like Hillary at all. Bill should not have posed with that person either way though.

[Riks]

Now she is running on a pro-LGBT platform :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


Hillary voters-do you feel good voting for a pro-Iraq War homophobe who thinks black people are "superpredators"?
I really dislike Hillary, but if she is currently pushing for pro-LGBT and equal rights, it works for me. I don't care what her personal beliefs are as long as she helps society and her current platform is better than Trumps or Cruz. I'm just sad that it appears Bernie will lose, and I blame the DNC for that.

[Nick Young]

I really dislike Hillary, but if she is currently pushing for pro-LGBT and equal rights, it works for me. I don't care what her personal beliefs are as long as she helps society and her current platform is better than Trumps or Cruz. I'm just sad that it appears Bernie will lose, and I blame the DNC for that.
u want a commie in the oval office?

[Riks]

u want a commie in the oval office?
Socialist, not commie. Get your terms right or you will continue to look as ignorant as Trump.

By the way, you never answered my question from the other thread: Would you agree that we should not harass or treat non-Americans different from each other because of their skin color or cultural clothing?

[Nick Young]

Socialist, not commie. Get your terms right or you will continue to look as ignorant as Trump.

By the way, you never answered my question from the other thread: Would you agree that we should not harass or treat non-Americans different from each other because of their skin color or cultural clothing?
Please explain the difference, in your own words. I am ignorant on the subject and wish to learn from you :cheers:

[Nick Young]

Socialist, not commie. Get your terms right or you will continue to look as ignorant as Trump.

By the way, you never answered my question from the other thread: Would you agree that we should not harass or treat non-Americans different from each other because of their skin color or cultural clothing?
I did answer it. Go check it out yourself bro :cheers:

I will answer again.

Of course should not harrass or treat non-Americans different from each other because of their skin or clothing.

Do you think we should abuse people for their skin color or clothing choices?

Illegal immigrants who are living and working in the country illegally should be deported back to their home nation and allowed to apply again for a work visa so they can come back as legal immigrants, and hopefully become fully-fledged US citizens one day. Regardless of skin color, nationality and creed, we should accept all legal immigrants in to our nation. :cheers:

[nathanjizzle]

sick

[Riks]

Please explain the difference, in your own words. I am ignorant on the subject and wish to learn from you :cheers:
Essentially, communism in its purest form is equal distribution of wealth. What Bernie is proposing is not equal distribution, but a partial distribution, particularly from the extremely wealthy who have much more than they will ever need and distributing that into programs that help people more in need. We already have some forms of socialized programs (e.g., education), and Bernie just wants to expand on the socialized programs that help people.

[Riks]

I did answer it. Go check it out yourself bro :cheers:

I will answer again.

Of course should not harrass or treat non-Americans different from each other because of their skin or clothing.

Then how do you support Trump who proposed just that by wanting a ban on Muslim entry into the US? We would be allowing other non-Americans into the US at that time, but not Muslims according to Trump.




Do you think we should abuse people for their skin color or clothing choices?


No, we should not abuse people for their skin color or clothing choices.

[Nick Young]

Essentially, communism in its purest form is equal distribution of wealth. What Bernie is proposing is not equal distribution, but a partial distribution, particularly from the extremely wealthy who have much more than they will ever need and distributing that into programs that help people more in need. We already have some forms of socialized programs (e.g., education), and Bernie just wants to expand on the socialized programs that help people.
That sounds subjective. Who is the arbiter who gets to decide when people have more than they will "ever need"?

Critics might argue that socialized welfare states like Sweden for example are currently failing due to their unsustainability. Why do you believe we should model our welfare program after welfare programs that are failing even in nations with higher GDP and a fraction of the population of the United States?

Why does Bernie want us to be like failing Sweden when our current system has made us the #1 super power in the world for 150+ years and counting now?:confusedshrug:


Do you believe that wealthy people should be punished for succeeding and working hard in the system that's presented to them? The top 1% already provide more in taxes to the US government than the bottom 99% combined. Why do you think they should pay even more?

[Nick Young]

Then how do you support Trump who proposed just that by wanting a ban on Muslim entry into the US? We would be allowing other non-Americans into the US at that time, but not Muslims according to Trump.


No, we should not abuse people for their skin color or clothing choices.
Trump proposed a vetting process on people from countries with lots of ISIS terrorists to ensure that ISIS people do not sneak in to the country as sleeper agents.

Please provide quotes and sources that support this statement of yours. :cheers:

[Riks]

I did answer it. Go check it out yourself bro :cheers:

I will answer again.
Btw, you had not answered it previously. You answered my first question. The questions were similar, but one was about Americans and one was about non-Americans. Now, you have answered it in both threads, but initially when I was re-asking the 2nd question, you had not yet.

[Nick Young]

Btw, you had not answered it previously. You answered my first question. The questions were similar, but one was about Americans and one was about non-Americans. Now, you have answered it in both threads, but initially when I was re-asking the 2nd question, you had not yet.
Do you remember what happened in Paris last December? Do you remember what happened in San Bernadino?

That is the danger of what potentially can happen if the immigration vetting process isn't airtight and you just let any random asshole who wants to come in to waltz in to your country. Even worse, innocent and well intentioned people might be forced to become drug mules or perform sexual favors in order to illegally cross the border.



Immigration laws exist for a reason, I hope you understand this. The San Bernadino and Paris massacres were not random fluke accidents.

[Riks]

Trump proposed a vetting process on people from countries with lots of ISIS terrorists to ensure that ISIS people do not sneak in to the country as sleeper agents.

Please provide quotes and sources that support this statement of yours. :cheers:

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/

[Riks]

That sounds subjective. Who is the arbiter who gets to decide when people have more than they will "ever need"?

Critics might argue that socialized welfare states like Sweden for example are currently failing due to their unsustainability. Why do you believe we should model our welfare program after welfare programs that are failing even in nations with higher GDP and a fraction of the population of the United States?

Why does Bernie want us to be like failing Sweden when our current system has made us the #1 super power in the world for 150+ years and counting now?:confusedshrug:


Do you believe that wealthy people should be punished for succeeding and working hard in the system that's presented to them? The top 1% already provide more in taxes to the US government than the bottom 99% combined. Why do you think they should pay even more?

Everything that has been decided has been subjective and arbitrarily decided. That is the current tax system and no candidate is changing that. So to answer the question in bold, the arbiter is whoever is president and has been for our entire lives.

As for the second bold, it is sad that helping out their fellow human is considered a "punishment."

[Nick Young]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/
First off, it doesn't matter what people say if it violates the constitution. Trump was trying to get media attention when he said that and it worked. Trump's marketing strategy for his campaign was built on saying outrageous clickbait things to get people to talk about him. Guess what, it's working.

Banning Muslims from coming in and out of the country will never happen. Improving the vetting process of people from Muslim nations entering the country to ensure they have absolutely zero ties to terrorist organizations certainly can happen though.:cheers:

Call it racism or xenophobia all you want-the fact is that the threat of a Paris style siege happening in the US is very real if Homeland security and the immigration vetting process doesn't improve.



Yes, I personally believe our government should prioritize the safety of Americans rather than pleasing the PC police and allowing people with ties to terrorist organizations to freely enter our borders.

I disagree with any implication though that all people from Muslim countries have ties to terrorists. But the facts exist that some do, and without a strong vetting process, these people can enter the US and do bad things to our people.


If people from these nations have to fill out extra paperwork for their visa application? Well it sucks for them but it's 100% worth it if it prevents a Paris style massacre.

[Zach LaVine]

First off, it doesn't matter what people say if it violates the constitution. Trump was trying to get media attention when he said that and it worked. Trump's marketing strategy for his campaign was built on saying outrageous clickbait things to get people to talk about him. Guess what, it's working.

Banning Muslims from coming in and out of the country will never happen. Improving the vetting process of people from Muslim nations entering the country to ensure they have absolutely zero ties to terrorist organizations certainly can happen though.:cheers:

Call it racism or xenophobia all you want-the fact is that the threat of a Paris style siege happening in the US is very real if Homeland security and the immigration vetting process doesn't improve.



Yes, I personally believe our government should prioritize the safety of Americans rather than pleasing the PC police and allowing people with ties to terrorist organizations to freely enter our borders.

I disagree with any implication though that all people from Muslim countries have ties to terrorists. But the facts exist that some do, and without a strong vetting process, these people can enter the US and do bad things to our people.


If people from these nations have to fill out extra paperwork for their visa application? Well it sucks for them but it's 100% worth it if it prevents a Paris style massacre.

So he says anything to get a vote, thus you can't trust what he will actually do. Isn't that why people are complaining about Hillary in this thread?

[Nick Young]

So he says anything to get a vote, thus you can't trust what he will actually do. Isn't that why people are complaining about Hillary in this thread?
Atleast it will be something different, unlike Hillary continuing to follow the Wall Street military industrial complex status quo.

You know what you're going to get with Hillary-more of the same bullshit, and likely a war with Iran.

Trump at the very least will do his best to bring sweeping radical change, which is what I believe this country needs.


Every politician makes empty promises during elections that they can't keep. This is something you must accept.



Hillary just does it at a much higher rate than the others, IMO.

[Zach LaVine]

Trump at the very least will do his best to bring sweeping radical change, which is what I believe this country needs.

Yet you were extremely against the guy who proposed this the most because he is a "commie" according to you.

[Nick Young]

b-b-b-b-b--b-b-b-b--b-bbbbutttt I thot Hillaryz was teh pro-LGBT social progrezzive doeee. Salon.com told me doe

[Facepalm]

Sssshhhhooooookkkkkkk :pimp:

[Nick Young]

Yet you were extremely against the guy who proposed this the most because he is a "commie" according to you.
Bernie was all about robbing from the poor to give to the rich. Only indoctrinated morons couldn't see through his schtick.