Mormons

[Nick Young]

Do you think Mormons have what it takes to become the next Muslims, or are they destined to flop out at Jehovah's Witness status.

[MMKM]

Do you think Mormons have what it takes to become the next Muslims, or are they destined to flop out at Jehovah's Witness status.

??? You know some violent Mormons?

[Nick Young]

??? You know some violent Mormons?
The Mormons were pretty violent vs the Native Americans. I personally don't know many violent mormons, but I try to not befriend mormons, so don't know many.

[MMKM]

The Mormons were pretty violent vs the Native Americans. I personally don't know many violent mormons, but I try to not befriend mormons, so don't know many.

Yeah I wouldn't be too worried about it.

[knickballer]

Mormons? More like morons. AMIRITE DOE?

[ShaqTwizzle]

I spent a few months in Provo, Utah when I was younger.
EVERYONE there is Mormon.

Honestly they seemed pretty nice but they give off that creepy vibe.
Also a few of them told me how *********ion is terrible like... out of the blue during casual conversations.

Why the hell is masturb@ation censored?
Anyway...

[Norcaliblunt]

Mormons were some of the first terrorists against America. Joe Smith was a British agent. Their religion isnt Christian at all. It's on some occult alchemical ritualistic mystical folklore shit. They are getting big time though. Morman Mafia,
Mormon CIA, it all real.

[Norcaliblunt]

In fact they almost had thier little coup with Romney. Fools are dangerous watch out.

[Kungfro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

[Nick Young]

Mormons? More like morons. AMIRITE DOE?
U R:cheers:

[NumberSix]

Do you think Mormons have what it takes to become the next Muslims, or are they destined to flop out at Jehovah's Witness status.
Extreme Mormons actually do kill people that leave the religion. It's not a revenge thing like it is with Muslims. They believe that its a sin so great, that only your blood being spilled can save your soul.

[Norcaliblunt]

Blood atonement? The White Horse prophecy? Mormons are definitely violent.

[ROCSteady]

This may be THE one group of people I just can't stand and can kinda say I hate as a whole

[NumberSix]

This may be THE one group of people I just can't stand and can kinda say I hate as a whole
Mormophobia

[WayOfWade]

As your resident Mormon this is a bunch of BS, however entertaining it may be.

Extreme Mormons actually do kill people that leave the religion.
And where NumberSix have you heard that we kill people who leave the church? Whatever group that may have done that, they're certainly my not a part of the main group.


This may be THE one group of people I just can't stand and can kinda say I hate as a whole
And why ROCsteady do you hate us? We're not all that bad.

Overall some funny stuff here, entertaining. As for the OP, no we do not have what it takes to become the next Muslims, and we won't flop out like the JW's either.

[WayOfWade]

Mormons? More like morons. AMIRITE DOE?
I see what you did there, very clever

[Nick Young]

It's true though. Only a moron would worship backwater xenophobes like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as prophets of God.

[WayOfWade]

It's true though. Only a moron would worship backwater xenophobes like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as prophets of God.
What does backwater xenophobe even mean?

[Nick Young]

What does backwater xenophobe even mean?
backwater=pedo+cousin f*cker
xenophobe=racist against native American/African American hater

Both of these adjectives accurately describe Moron "Prophets" Joseph Smith and Brigham Young aka the L Ron Hubbards of the 1800s.

Your parents and ancestors threw your lot in with the wrong prophets, dawg.



Zero sympathy for you psychos, especially after you went around trying to convert dead Jews who were killed in the Holocaust to Moronism. Straight up disgusting bullshit that was.

Utah is a beautiful state, but the Morons make it difficult to spend more than a week at a time there.

[NumberSix]

And where NumberSix have you heard that we kill people who leave the church? Whatever group that may have done that, they're certainly my not a part of the main group.
It's obviously not mainstream. I said it was extremists.

[WayOfWade]

backwater=pedo+cousin f*cker
xenophobe=racist against native American/African American hater

Both of these adjectives accurately describe Moron "Prophets" Joseph Smith and Brigham Young aka the L Ron Hubbards of the 1800s.

Your parents and ancestors threw your lot in with the wrong prophets, dawg.



Zero sympathy for you psychos, especially after you went around trying to convert dead Jews who were killed in the Holocaust to Moronism. Straight up disgusting bullshit that was.

Utah is a beautiful state, but the Morons make it difficult to spend more than a week at a time there.
Who was the cousin f*cker? Never heard of any prophet doing that, just Mary and Joseph from the New Testament. And Pedo? I assume you're talking about polygamy. News flash, God can command polygamy when he needs to; he did so in the Bible, and he did so then. I also love you taking out the "m" to make Mormom "Moron," that's a very appropriate and nice gesture.
Parents and Ancestors threw their lot in with the wrong prophets? I do remember my constitutional rights to Religious freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; judging from their lives and mine, not a bad decision at all. And if they're the wrong prophets, then who are the right ones?
Zero sympathy eh? That doesn't surprise me considering how ignorant almost all the world is on who we are and what we've been through. And allow me to enlighten you on that Jew case. Have you ever heard about Salvation for the dead? It's just something that's talked about in 1 Corinthians 15:29 as well as 1 Peter 4:6 in case you are ever interested in opening a Bible. Long story short, dead people must be a member of the true church and receive the proper baptism to be saved, seeing as John 3:5 is a universal truth for all who lived, not just for those alive when Jesus was alive and after. We perform these baptisms I our temples on their behalf vicariously, we do not convert the dead through this manner, we simply give them the option to accept these ordinances on the other side. The dead themselves wait in spiritual prison (1 Peter 3:19) and are taught the gospel, even today. There it is their choice whether or not to accept the Gospel, and if they do they need to be baptized (which spirits cannot be), so we do it here by finding old ancestral names (along with other information), bring it to temples and are baptized on behalf of those people so that they may be saved. So that Jew stuff was just members collecting ancestral names to do these temple ordinances; the Jews didn't like it and asked us to stop, so we did.
I hope that clears things up, although judging from your posts you probably have many more false beliefs about us.

[WayOfWade]

It's obviously not mainstream. I said it was extremists.
Well that's fine and completely understandable, thanks for the clarification! :cheers:

[StephHamann]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu4y7x9LRyY

:rockon:

[CakeorDeath]

And Pedo? I assume you're talking about polygamy.

I don't wish to put words in anyone's mouth, but I'm assuming when he says "pedo" he is referring to Smith's pedophilia, not to his polygamy.



That doesn't surprise me considering how ignorant almost all the world is on who we are and what we've been through.

In my experience, most Mormons are ignorant of who they are and what they've been through. The LDS Church has worked very hard to hide the icky parts of its past. Only recently has the LDS Church earnestly responded to inquiries about its formation and early teachings and started writing articles confirming a lot of what many already knew about the foundations of the early church and the character/actions of its leaders. Unfortunately, most of the publications are only available on the big bad internet, and therefore only available to those who actively seek them out. They should be taught within all three blocks of Sunday services. And at all campuses of Ricks College (BYU-I, BYU-H, BYU-P). And at the MTC.


And allow me to enlighten you on that Jew case. Have you ever heard about Salvation for the dead? It's just something that's talked about in 1 Corinthians 15:29 as well as 1 Peter 4:6 in case you are ever interested in opening a Bible.

Perhaps he has read the Bible, and simply has a different interpretation? The Mormon interpretation is, after all, the one that is considered "alternative."

Paul speaks in 1 Corinth 15:29 not of Christians baptizing the dead, but of pagan rituals centered around the area north of Corinth, specifically Eleusis. The issue discussed by Paul here was the paradox presented by the pagans not believing in resurrection yet performing rituals designed to transition the deceased from this life to the next. Effectively, Paul is simply saying "if they don't believe in resurrection, why would they baptize the dead in preparation for the afterlife? It doesn't make sense!" It is not possible that Paul was talking about Christians themselves, as there are grammatical/pronoun issues with the original Greek if one tries to interpret it that way.

1 Peter 4:6? Pretty simple, really. Not literally dead. Figuratively dead, i.e. through sin/moral trespasses.


Regarding the overall topic of the thread, I think Mormonism may eventually defeat itself. In my opinion, it has not aged well, primarily due to massive increases in education amongst its membership (more college educated members now than ever) which inevitably (hopefully) leads to more tolerance of and acceptance of other ideas.

It also doesn't know what to do with the internet. Ironically, it just sees the internet as a giant p0rn box, but in reality, the internet is now the best source of information about what the church really believes, what it practices, and what it enforces as policy, whereas 25 years ago, this type of information could only be obtained from the highly mediated source of missionaries. Hell, you can watch all of the "sacred and secret" temple ordinances on youtube. Those familiar with freemasonry will notice quite a bit of plagiarism...

Apologists will say that you can't believe everything you see/read, but having been a Mormon for nearly 15 years of my adult life (and now very thankfully out of it), the vast majority of what you read is absolutely true. Most practicing Mormons will deny a lot of it though. The best you can hope to get is "yeah, that is a doctrinal teaching, but its a really advanced teaching and most of us just try to focus on the basics. Christ is our savior, love one another, be a good person. We try not to think about how we used to symbolically slit our own throats in the temple."

As a resident of Utah, and with dozens upon dozens of very active Mormon friends and in-laws, it will be interesting to me to see what will happen when the older generation dies off. Utah (well, SLC anyway) is becoming a very progressive place and I think there will be a lot more public acceptance/tolerance/idea exchange within the LDS community once the walking skeletons that run the church now shuffle off this mortal coil. One can only hope.

If the church doesn't actively engage its own criticisms, and respond properly, I honestly think it may end up being practiced merely in fringe (primarily rural) communities and in countries where free exchange of information isn't as readily available. Kind of like the polygamist sects in southern Utah/Arizona. University educated, cosmopolitan, professional folks are too smart, and hang out with too many smart folks, not to eventually see through most of the obvious manipulation and bogus moralizing.

As for Mormons becoming terrorists? There are extremes in every group of humans, but I find this completely unfathomable. Most Mormons are just normal, good people, trying to work hard and raise a family. I absolutely despise the church, but there are a lot of Mormons that I care very deeply for. So much so that I don't try to influence or change their beliefs, even though many of them would try to get me back in the fold if they knew that I was gone. I just simply refuse to discuss it with them (most don't even know), for their sake and mine. Let them believe what they want, and hopefully they live long, full, and happy lives. I hope for the same for myself.

[Norcaliblunt]

You guys need to learn your history. The first time a president used the word terrorism publicly he was referring to Mormons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

This stuff makes San Bernardino look mild.

[ROCSteady]

As your resident Mormon this is a bunch of BS, however entertaining it may be.

And where NumberSix have you heard that we kill people who leave the church? Whatever group that may have done that, they're certainly my not a part of the main group.

And why ROCsteady do you hate us? We're not all that bad.

Overall some funny stuff here, entertaining. As for the OP, no we do not have what it takes to become the next Muslims, and we won't flop out like the JW's either.


I shouldn't have typed hate, I don't hate y'all for having your own way but there's just something about Mormons, the ones I've met, the culture in general, that makes me feel their personal disillusionment and it's creepy.

It creeps me out how homogenous Mormons often are aesthetically. Every family is like a cardboard cutout. Plus, Mormons want to act like they're just another sub-sect of Christianity but force their followers to pay dues and whatnot. That's cult-ish behavior and expectations. I'm not a fan of cults.

The story of Joseph Smith sounds like he got over on just enough people to keep his 'divine' plight on a track for another religion and then the flames were fanned enough over the years to gather enough dues from followers to build some pretty, extravagant buildings. I dunno, like the Catholic church, all the 'prettiness' of the temple makes the intentions seem more dubious and disingenuous for a spectacle.

Add in the mandatory missionary work, going to church every morning, forced payments and template nature of Mormon followers to one guy who went in the woods and claims grandiosity, the whole thing comes off very odd to the extent I cannot say about other disciplines of Christianity or even other religions.

[CakeorDeath]

You guys need to learn your history. The first time a president used the word terrorism publicly he was referring to Mormons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

This stuff makes San Bernardino look mild.

Joseph Smith was gunned down by a mob in jail. Mormons will tell you he was arrested for his religions convictions. In reality, he was in jail because he tried to burn down a printing press because some of his former followers were threatening to expose him.

Prior to that, he was wanted for forming an illegal bank and for multiple other fraudulent activities.

Sounds little terroristy, don't you think?

[Nick Young]

Who was the cousin f*cker? Never heard of any prophet doing that, just Mary and Joseph from the New Testament. And Pedo? I assume you're talking about polygamy. News flash, God can command polygamy when he needs to; he did so in the Bible, and he did so then. I also love you taking out the "m" to make Mormom "Moron," that's a very appropriate and nice gesture.
Parents and Ancestors threw their lot in with the wrong prophets? I do remember my constitutional rights to Religious freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; judging from their lives and mine, not a bad decision at all. And if they're the wrong prophets, then who are the right ones?
Zero sympathy eh? That doesn't surprise me considering how ignorant almost all the world is on who we are and what we've been through. And allow me to enlighten you on that Jew case. Have you ever heard about Salvation for the dead? It's just something that's talked about in 1 Corinthians 15:29 as well as 1 Peter 4:6 in case you are ever interested in opening a Bible. Long story short, dead people must be a member of the true church and receive the proper baptism to be saved, seeing as John 3:5 is a universal truth for all who lived, not just for those alive when Jesus was alive and after. We perform these baptisms I our temples on their behalf vicariously, we do not convert the dead through this manner, we simply give them the option to accept these ordinances on the other side. The dead themselves wait in spiritual prison (1 Peter 3:19) and are taught the gospel, even today. There it is their choice whether or not to accept the Gospel, and if they do they need to be baptized (which spirits cannot be), so we do it here by finding old ancestral names (along with other information), bring it to temples and are baptized on behalf of those people so that they may be saved. So that Jew stuff was just members collecting ancestral names to do these temple ordinances; the Jews didn't like it and asked us to stop, so we did.
I hope that clears things up, although judging from your posts you probably have many more false beliefs about us.
This nutcase, bah gawd.

I used to live in Utah bro. I know the insane nutcase shit you and your cultish ilk believe.

Mormons aka the proto-scientologists.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both disgusting flaming racists.

[Nick Young]

Joseph Smith was gunned down by a mob in jail. Mormons will tell you he was arrested for his religions convictions. In reality, he was in jail because he tried to burn down a printing press because some of his former followers were threatening to expose him.

Prior to that, he was wanted for forming an illegal bank and for multiple other fraudulent activities.

Sounds little terroristy, don't you think?
LOL @ the Morons. Between Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and L Ron Hubbard, seems like any loser can become a religious prophet in America these days.

[Nick Young]

You guys need to learn your history. The first time a president used the word terrorism publicly he was referring to Mormons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

This stuff makes San Bernardino look mild.
Another religion founded and built on bloodshed:facepalm

What say ye Mormons? How do you defend this shit?


By this time the emigrants were running low on water and provisions, and allowed some approaching members of the militia—who carried a white flag—to enter their camp. The militia members assured the emigrants they were protected and escorted them from the hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.


Following the massacre, the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving the bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, after interruption by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury, sentenced to death, and executed by Utah firing squad on March 23, 1877.

Today, historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors, including war hysteria about possible invasion of Mormon territory and hyperbolic Mormon teachings against outsiders, which were part of the excesses of the Mormon Reformation period. Scholars debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lay with the local leaders in southern Utah.

Good one, Morons.

Also, the prophet and founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith was a pedo. This cult is dangerous.

[WayOfWade]

This nutcase, bah gawd.

I used to live in Utah bro. I know the insane nutcase shit you and your cultish ilk believe.

Mormons aka the proto-scientologists.

Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were both disgusting flaming racists.
Do you have any other argument other than "this nutcase"? I presented you our beliefs, scriptures supporting them, and this is all you can do. Specifically what don't you like? All you do is call us pedos and nut cases and don't do anything uplifting. Still, thanks for posting your opinion

[WayOfWade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu4y7x9LRyY

:rockon:
I freaking love this episode, I lol'd so hard the first time I saw it

[Nick Young]

Do you have any other argument other than "this nutcase"? I presented you our beliefs, scriptures supporting them, and this is all you can do. Specifically what don't you like? All you do is call us pedos and nut cases and don't do anything uplifting. Still, thanks for posting your opinion

I didn't call all mormons pedos. I called the Prophet and founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith a pedo.

Your own church acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a pedo. (http://fox13now.com/2014/10/22/lds-church-issues-new-essays-on-polygamy-acknowledges-joseph-smith-married-teen-girl/)


By this time the emigrants were running low on water and provisions, and allowed some approaching members of the militia—who carried a white flag—to enter their camp. The militia members assured the emigrants they were protected and escorted them from the hasty fortification. After walking a distance from the camp, the militiamen, with the help of auxiliary forces hiding nearby, attacked the emigrants. Intending to leave no witnesses and thus prevent reprisals, the perpetrators killed all the adults and older children (totaling about 120 men, women, and children). Seventeen children, all younger than seven, were spared.

Following the massacre, the perpetrators hastily buried the victims, leaving the bodies vulnerable to wild animals and the climate. Local families took in the surviving children, and many of the victims' possessions were auctioned off. Investigations, after interruption by the American Civil War, resulted in nine indictments during 1874. Of the men indicted, only John D. Lee was tried in a court of law. After two trials in the Utah Territory, Lee was convicted by a jury, sentenced to death, and executed by Utah firing squad on March 23, 1877.

Today, historians attribute the massacre to a combination of factors, including war hysteria about possible invasion of Mormon territory and hyperbolic Mormon teachings against outsiders, which were part of the excesses of the Mormon Reformation period. Scholars debate whether senior Mormon leadership, including Brigham Young, directly instigated the massacre or if responsibility lay with the local leaders in southern Utah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre


I this uplifting behavior, bro? Please explain why this happened.



How do you console yourself with the fact that your prophet Joseph Smith was a pedophile and your other prophet Brigham Young was a flaming racist?

:confusedshrug:

You provided no "scripture". All you provided was bible quotes that you are mistranslating and interpreting in a bizarro way.


Explain.

Why did early Mormon's commit acts of terrorism?

Why did Joseph Smith's own followers turn on him after they suspected him of lying?:confusedshrug:


Why are you devoting your life to this proto-scientology cult founded by a racist pedophile?

[Nick Young]

I wonder if the Mormon will answer my questions, post nothing and disappear, or resort to logical fallacy and character assassination and deflection tactics. What is it going to be?:confusedshrug:

[WayOfWade]

I wonder if the Mormon will answer my questions, post nothing and disappear, or resort to logical fallacy and character assassination and deflection tactics. What is it going to be?:confusedshrug:
I'll post, I just finished playing ball and am heading home, just a sec

[WayOfWade]

I didn't call all mormons pedos. I called the Prophet and founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith a pedo.

You are right, you did not call us pedos, my bad for over reacting. You did call me a nutcase though, which is a dumb, pointless insult. And Pedo is defined as someone sexually attracted to children, did you even read the article you posted? I don't deny Joseph Smith married dozens of woman and even a teen, however he never had sexual contact with her. And before you call that crazy and bs, realize that you have no evidence to support that claim at all. And how did the church recognize him as a Pedo?


I this uplifting behavior, bro? Please explain why this happened.
Because a bunch of Mormons made mistakes. Where in our church do we claim to have a perfect history and to be/to have been perfect people? I know many mormons try to portray that image, and if that offends you then get over it. These people massacred innocents, and they will pay for their crimes in the life to come. Don't just a whole church/people over one stupid incident, that'd be like me judging America based solely on the civil right movement and racism.


How do you console yourself with the fact that your prophet Joseph Smith was a pedophile and your other prophet Brigham Young was a flaming racist?
I console my self with the fact that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, wasn't a pedophile, and that Brigham young wasn't a flaming racist. Did he deny blacks the priesthood? Yeah he did, but not because it was his desire.


You provided no "scripture". All you provided was bible quotes that you are mistranslating and interpreting in a bizarro way.

I didn't provide scripture? I'll just repost the ones that I already posted and explain them. In 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul speaks of christians baptizing for the dead and posing the question as to why they do it if the dead rise not at all? He does this to refute those who don't believe in a resurrection. Admittedly the scripture is vague, but Paul has no issue with it.
In 1 Peter 3:19, we see that Christ went and preached the dead, now why would he do that? 1 Peter 4:6 show that the gospel is preached to those who are dead, so that they might live, showing that there is some sort of work for the dead going on. Is that not enough for you? John 5:25 showed us that while Christ was still on earth, that "the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." From these bible verses and modern revelation (found in Doctrine and Covenants Section 138), we have the framework of Salvation for the dead. If you require more detail (which will be showed either by your flatout denial of what I have said with no explanation on your part, or by simply asking for clarification) I am here to help. As for the temples, my other post covered that, albeit not completely.


Why did early Mormon's commit acts of terrorism?

Why did Joseph Smith's own followers turn on him after they suspected him of lying?


Why are you devoting your life to this proto-scientology cult founded by a racist pedophile?
Why did the early Mormon's commit acts of terrorism? Perhaps you don't know this but they were being terrorized themselves and needed self defense. Am I justifying all their actions? No! Horrible and inexcusable things were done by both sides, it was a bad time. I'm not sure you realize just how much persecution the Mormons had; they were forced out of their homes multiple times by mobs, were tarred and feathered many times, and many other horrible things were done to them which I post here would probably be responded to be "tldr." Put simply, it was for a lot of self defense, it was anger-induced, and mistakes were made.
Why did Joseph's followers turn on him? They couldn't take the heat! Those were tough times, trying for many people. Those who didn't apostate but pressed on became many leaders of the church, and their sacrifices and examples layed the foundation for the great LDS church today. Back to the question though, they turned on him because either persecution was too great, they felt lied to and like they were being led on and decided to jump ship, or others were just evil people and wanted Joseph dead.
And why am I devoting my life to this proto-scientology cult founded by a racist pedophile? Well just about everything about that question is wrong in itself, I'll have to ask you to ask a more rationable question seein gas I don't devote my life to a proto-scientology cult founded by a racist pedophile, I am not down for that. I devote my life to a great cause that will keep on rolling no matter what people like you do

[Nick Young]

I hope you will one day get out of that twisted cult and that brainwashed mindset you have bro. Good luck.

[WayOfWade]

I don't wish to put words in anyone's mouth, but I'm assuming when he says "pedo" he is referring to Smith's pedophilia, not to his polygamy.




In my experience, most Mormons are ignorant of who they are and what they've been through. The LDS Church has worked very hard to hide the icky parts of its past. Only recently has the LDS Church earnestly responded to inquiries about its formation and early teachings and started writing articles confirming a lot of what many already knew about the foundations of the early church and the character/actions of its leaders. Unfortunately, most of the publications are only available on the big bad internet, and therefore only available to those who actively seek them out. They should be taught within all three blocks of Sunday services. And at all campuses of Ricks College (BYU-I, BYU-H, BYU-P). And at the MTC.



Perhaps he has read the Bible, and simply has a different interpretation? The Mormon interpretation is, after all, the one that is considered "alternative."

Paul speaks in 1 Corinth 15:29 not of Christians baptizing the dead, but of pagan rituals centered around the area north of Corinth, specifically Eleusis. The issue discussed by Paul here was the paradox presented by the pagans not believing in resurrection yet performing rituals designed to transition the deceased from this life to the next. Effectively, Paul is simply saying "if they don't believe in resurrection, why would they baptize the dead in preparation for the afterlife? It doesn't make sense!" It is not possible that Paul was talking about Christians themselves, as there are grammatical/pronoun issues with the original Greek if one tries to interpret it that way.

1 Peter 4:6? Pretty simple, really. Not literally dead. Figuratively dead, i.e. through sin/moral trespasses.


Regarding the overall topic of the thread, I think Mormonism may eventually defeat itself. In my opinion, it has not aged well, primarily due to massive increases in education amongst its membership (more college educated members now than ever) which inevitably (hopefully) leads to more tolerance of and acceptance of other ideas.

It also doesn't know what to do with the internet. Ironically, it just sees the internet as a giant p0rn box, but in reality, the internet is now the best source of information about what the church really believes, what it practices, and what it enforces as policy, whereas 25 years ago, this type of information could only be obtained from the highly mediated source of missionaries. Hell, you can watch all of the "sacred and secret" temple ordinances on youtube. Those familiar with freemasonry will notice quite a bit of plagiarism...

Apologists will say that you can't believe everything you see/read, but having been a Mormon for nearly 15 years of my adult life (and now very thankfully out of it), the vast majority of what you read is absolutely true. Most practicing Mormons will deny a lot of it though. The best you can hope to get is "yeah, that is a doctrinal teaching, but its a really advanced teaching and most of us just try to focus on the basics. Christ is our savior, love one another, be a good person. We try not to think about how we used to symbolically slit our own throats in the temple."

As a resident of Utah, and with dozens upon dozens of very active Mormon friends and in-laws, it will be interesting to me to see what will happen when the older generation dies off. Utah (well, SLC anyway) is becoming a very progressive place and I think there will be a lot more public acceptance/tolerance/idea exchange within the LDS community once the walking skeletons that run the church now shuffle off this mortal coil. One can only hope.

If the church doesn't actively engage its own criticisms, and respond properly, I honestly think it may end up being practiced merely in fringe (primarily rural) communities and in countries where free exchange of information isn't as readily available. Kind of like the polygamist sects in southern Utah/Arizona. University educated, cosmopolitan, professional folks are too smart, and hang out with too many smart folks, not to eventually see through most of the obvious manipulation and bogus moralizing.

As for Mormons becoming terrorists? There are extremes in every group of humans, but I find this completely unfathomable. Most Mormons are just normal, good people, trying to work hard and raise a family. I absolutely despise the church, but there are a lot of Mormons that I care very deeply for. So much so that I don't try to influence or change their beliefs, even though many of them would try to get me back in the fold if they knew that I was gone. I just simply refuse to discuss it with them (most don't even know), for their sake and mine. Let them believe what they want, and hopefully they live long, full, and happy lives. I hope for the same for myself.
I must say I do understand why people think Joseph Smith is a Pedophile, but that doesn't make it any less false. However you may believe what you believe, there's no problem with that.

And good point about the interpretation of the Bible, but that's kind of the problem nowadays, every scripture can mean a million different things, that's kind of the reason why we believe Prophets are still so essential today.

And yes, many Mormons have become more accepting of the new mainstream trends of today, I believe Salt Lake City was named the Gayest city in America for 2013 based solely on its progression towards lgbt equality. The church however won't ever defeat itself; true many more members will probably leave the church in the coming years due to the information available, but there will still be many more than ever due to the sheer growth of the church all over the world.

And I have noticed a little bit about the church and the internet, only recently have they really embraced it and have started making the not-so-good things more open to public knowledge, but they're doing their best. And yes the church does warn a ton about the internet and Porn, whenever one is talked about it is usually accompanied by the other in any conversation, but that's just what the Modern-day prophets have specified as a danger and so try to warn us as much as possible. The internet is a great source of info, both good and bad however, you've just got to be careful. I cannot tell you how many people I encountered as a missionary that found the most incredibly funny and insane stuff about us that isn't true, like that we have orgies in our temples, sacrifice chickens, and a lot of other crap.

And that's cool that you live in Utah, and I applaud you for making your own decisions in your life, even though I am still a member, there is definetely a bit of a "Don't believe anything you read" attitude about the internet. Admittedly I don't really delve into that stuff too much, but mainly because I just don't consider it that important. And if you don't mind me asking, what drove you away specifically? Or was it a lot of things clumped together?

And as for the Corinthians scripture, you make some interesting points, I'll have to look into that more, thanks for the head up :cheers:
And in case 1 Peter 4:6 isn't enough for you, how about the part in 1 Peter 3:19 where it literally says Christ went and preached to the dead, which was predicted back in John 5:25. Being a former member I bet you're probably familiar with D&C 138, I know you're no longer a member but it's a good read either way

And reading that part about you hiding who you are kind of stinks, but I can understand not wanting all the attention, but don't expect the worst. My mom had her best childhood friend come over from California for my cousins wedding, long story short he's gay and thought everyone was going to hate on him, but no we all had a great time and I found a good friend that day.

Overall very nice post, thanks for your input!

[WayOfWade]

I hope you will one day get out of that twisted cult and that brainwashed mindset you have bro. Good luck.
Can you literally do anything other than this? Just stand back and call my church a cult and insult me? I even specifically pointed out that you would do this in my last post (flatout deny everything I just said). I responded to every single one of your questions and here you are running away from everything I said. Either admit you were wrong, or refute me. I know you don't like the history of our church, but at least contribute something positive to this thread holy crap. At least CakeorDeath was able to put together a nice response that wasn't insulting at all.
Nick, you need to grow up and stop living in your little fantasy where everything you say is right, now go run away if you can't face the facts

[WayOfWade]

I shouldn't have typed hate, I don't hate y'all for having your own way but there's just something about Mormons, the ones I've met, the culture in general, that makes me feel their personal disillusionment and it's creepy.

It creeps me out how homogenous Mormons often are aesthetically. Every family is like a cardboard cutout. Plus, Mormons want to act like they're just another sub-sect of Christianity but force their followers to pay dues and whatnot. That's cult-ish behavior and expectations. I'm not a fan of cults.

The story of Joseph Smith sounds like he got over on just enough people to keep his 'divine' plight on a track for another religion and then the flames were fanned enough over the years to gather enough dues from followers to build some pretty, extravagant buildings. I dunno, like the Catholic church, all the 'prettiness' of the temple makes the intentions seem more dubious and disingenuous for a spectacle.

Add in the mandatory missionary work, going to church every morning, forced payments and template nature of Mormon followers to one guy who went in the woods and claims grandiosity, the whole thing comes off very odd to the extent I cannot say about other disciplines of Christianity or even other religions.
I do understand you when you talk about the culture, it can be pretty creepy how happy everyone tries to be and not embrace the real world. I try to be objective about everything, but I'm not perfect, I have my own faults. We do not however force our followers to pay dues; you're probably thinking of tithing and fast offerings, but those aren't mandatory (unless you want to get into Heaven).
And as for the extravagant buildings, it's a lot more sacred and complex than that. God always wants his people to build temples, he had Solomon build one, he had the Jews in Jerusalem always use the great one there, we just build our temples using more or less the same blueprint that was used back then. It's not just for a spectacle, it's to worship our God in the way he instructs us to.
And dude, mandatory missionary work is sweet! You'll never experience anything like it! I know that probably seems like something a brainwashed Mormon would say (and a brainwashed Mormon WOULD say that), but I had a blast doing my turn in Ecuador for 2 years, I'll never take that experience back for anything. And Church every morning?! I only did that to play ball during some summers; we only go regularly on Sundays, which is not that bad considering that God only asks us to go then.
And yeah the Joseph Smith story is sort of fantastic and in someways unbelievable, (as Reggie Miller would put it), but doesn't the world being formed in 7 days seem incredible? Does Moses parting a sea to save thousands of people seem incredible? Does Jesus dying and coming back not seem way more unbelievable than God appearing to a man in the woods? This in comparison is a much more believable feat than the others, and that's why you need to investigate to see if it actually happened or not.

[Giaodollo]

I didn't call all mormons pedos. I called the Prophet and founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith a pedo.

Your own church acknowledges that Joseph Smith was a pedo. (http://fox13now.com/2014/10/22/lds-church-issues-new-essays-on-polygamy-acknowledges-joseph-smith-married-teen-girl/)



A pedophile is attracted to pre teen girls, or better yet, girl that hasn't developed yet so to say, those that hasn't hit puberty.

With that said, marrying a 15 year old girl, is as far as can come from pedophilia, most western countries have age of consent ranging from 14-16.

The word you are looking for is Ephebophilia. I'd say 15 years is a gray zone, me personally would never, but meh...

[Nick Young]

Pretty sure the legal definition of the term in the United States court of law is pedophilia.




the not-so-good things
Understatement of the year, Mormon:facepalm


Joseph Smith was a con man.
Brigham Young was a terrorist and a racist.

These are the two most important men in the Mormon faith. It is sad so many people chose to follow these Charlatans. I am happy to hear that the cult of Mormonism is dying as more and more Mormons are being exposed to the evil truths about the history of their "religion" aka cult.

[Nick Young]

Can you literally do anything other than this? Just stand back and call my church a cult and insult me? I even specifically pointed out that you would do this in my last post (flatout deny everything I just said). I responded to every single one of your questions and here you are running away from everything I said. Either admit you were wrong, or refute me. I know you don't like the history of our church, but at least contribute something positive to this thread holy crap. At least CakeorDeath was able to put together a nice response that wasn't insulting at all.
Nick, you need to grow up and stop living in your little fantasy where everything you say is right, now go run away if you can't face the facts
You need to grow up and get out of your proto-scientology cult founded by racists and conmen.


Do you actually believe that the Native Americans are a "lost tribe of Israel?" :lol

Don't worry you don't have to answer. I've read the Book of Mormon. i know the twisted shit you and the rest of your dying cult believe.

[Giaodollo]

Pretty sure the legal definition of the term in the United States court of law is pedophilia.



Understatement of the year, Mormon:facepalm


Joseph Smith was a con man.
Brigham Young was a terrorist and a racist.

These are the two most important men in the Mormon faith. It is sad so many people chose to follow these Charlatans. I am happy to hear that the cult of Mormonism is dying as more and more Mormons are being exposed to the evil truths about the history of their "religion" aka cult.

No it is not. Pedophillia is a mental disorder. You are not sentenced to pedophilia if you **** a 15 year old, you are sentenced to statutory rape.

[Giaodollo]

You need to grow up and get out of your proto-scientology cult founded by racists and conmen.


Do you actually believe that the Native Americans are a "lost tribe of Israel?" :lol

Don't worry you don't have to answer. I've read the Book of Mormon. i know the twisted shit you and the rest of your dying cult believe.

Actually they have had a rapid expansion, like 500% growth in 40 years.

In my opinion Mormons are really nice people generally.

[Nick Young]

Actually they have had a rapid expansion, like 500% growth in 40 years.

In my opinion Mormons are really nice people generally.
The Morons are a nutcase cult built on a foundation of violence.



In 1857, Mormon leaders taught that the Second Coming of Jesus was imminent,[49] and that God would soon exact punishment against the United States for persecuting Mormons and martyring Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Patten and Pratt.

As if God cares about those looney toon Charlatans XD


[50] In their Endowment ceremony, faithful early Latter-day Saints took an oath to pray that God would take vengeance against the murderers.[51] As a result of this oath, several Mormon apostles and other leaders considered it their religious duty to kill the prophets' murderers if they ever came across them.[52]

The sermons, blessings, and private counsel by Mormon leaders just before the Mountain Meadows massacre can be understood as encouraging private individuals to execute God's judgment against the wicked.[53] In Cedar City, the teachings of church leaders were particularly strident.[54]

Thus, historians argue that southern Utah Mormons would have been particularly affected by an unsubstantiated[55] rumor that the Baker–Fancher wagon train had been joined by a group of eleven miners and plainsmen who called themselves "Missouri Wildcats", some of whom reportedly taunted, vandalized and "caused trouble" for Mormons and Native Americans along the route (by some accounts claiming that they had the gun that "shot the guts out of Old Joe Smith"[56]) They were also affected by the report to Brigham Young that the Baker–Fancher party was from Arkansas where Pratt was murdered;[57] it was rumored that Pratt's wife recognized some of the Mountain Meadows party as being in the gang that shot and stabbed Pratt.[58]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre#Strident_Mormon_teaching s




The Mountain Meadows massacre was caused in part by events relating to the Utah War, an 1857 deployment toward the Utah Territory of the United States Army, whose arrival was peaceful. In the summer of 1857, however, the Mormons expected an all-out invasion of apocalyptic significance. From July to September 1857, Mormon leaders and their followers prepared for a siege that could have ended up similar to the seven-year Bleeding Kansas problem occurring at the time. Mormons were required to stockpile grain, and were enjoined against selling grain to emigrants for use as cattle feed. As far-off Mormon colonies retreated, Parowan and Cedar City became isolated and vulnerable outposts. Brigham Young sought to enlist the help of Native American tribes in fighting the "Americans", encouraging them to steal cattle from emigrant trains, and to join Mormons in fighting the approaching army.[59]

This is the same kind of nutcase shit that lead to the Anabaptist Munster Rebellion, lead by a conman similar to Joseph Smith, Bernhard Knipperdolling. It is a shame that the US army didn't knip this nutcase cult in the bud before it had a chance to grow.



HINT HINT Morons: A plague of locusts coming to attack you when you settle in a valley is a sign that God DOESN'T want you to be there XD

[WayOfWade]

Thanks Giadollo for being a nice objective poster, your comments are very much appreciated
As for Nick Young, I'll get to all your remarks in a couple of hours, I'm heading to a wedding of some friends (in the temple!)

[ROCSteady]

I do understand you when you talk about the culture, it can be pretty creepy how happy everyone tries to be and not embrace the real world. I try to be objective about everything, but I'm not perfect, I have my own faults. We do not however force our followers to pay dues; you're probably thinking of tithing and fast offerings, but those aren't mandatory (unless you want to get into Heaven).
And as for the extravagant buildings, it's a lot more sacred and complex than that. God always wants his people to build temples, he had Solomon build one, he had the Jews in Jerusalem always use the great one there, we just build our temples using more or less the same blueprint that was used back then. It's not just for a spectacle, it's to worship our God in the way he instructs us to.
And dude, mandatory missionary work is sweet! You'll never experience anything like it! I know that probably seems like something a brainwashed Mormon would say (and a brainwashed Mormon WOULD say that), but I had a blast doing my turn in Ecuador for 2 years, I'll never take that experience back for anything. And Church every morning?! I only did that to play ball during some summers; we only go regularly on Sundays, which is not that bad considering that God only asks us to go then.
And yeah the Joseph Smith story is sort of fantastic and in someways unbelievable, (as Reggie Miller would put it), but doesn't the world being formed in 7 days seem incredible? Does Moses parting a sea to save thousands of people seem incredible? Does Jesus dying and coming back not seem way more unbelievable than God appearing to a man in the woods? This in comparison is a much more believable feat than the others, and that's why you need to investigate to see if it actually happened or not.

Thanks for the response. It's good to get perspective from those in the clutches

So explain yearly tithing settlement? From what I know, you have to meet with a bishop at year's end and if you haven't tithed 10%, you basically have to pay your debt or be a pariah in the church. That's essentially a requirement to continue onto the 'path to heaven.' That's what scientology makes you do; pay to achieve the spiritual enlightenment. That's cultish. Other churches have the 10% biblical tithing guideline but they don't have 'settlement' meetings if you chose not to give up 10% of your salary.

Also, the difference in Jesus and Joseph Smith is that regardless of either's legitimacy, Jesus is a figure respected across the globe for hundreds and thousands of years and by believers of other religions. Even non-believers have love for the teachings of Christ. NOBODY respects or has love for some blonde dude with a generic name outside of paying customers of Mormonism.

[Duderonomy]

Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are soft as Charmin. Bryce Williams (who killed both Alison Parker and Adam Ward) was raised a witless. It seems very likely his hatred for society and feelings of alienation were a byproduct of his early childhood upbringings with the religion.
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6325412.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/CM0YXUrWUAAkRSF.jpg

[CakeorDeath]

I must say I do understand why people think Joseph Smith is a Pedophile, but that doesn't make it any less false. However you may believe what you believe, there's no problem with that.

Well, I think the true issue here is the concept of belief. It is beyond doubt that Smith had sexual relationships with many women, some of whom were under the age of 18 (and some of whom were already married to other men, and some of whom were already pregnant by their husbands). The historicity of this is far too well supported for doubt to remain. Now, whether or not you believe that some of this behavior amounts to pedophilia based on the mores that existed within that culture and within that temporal context is a different question. If you believe that his actions don't constitute pedophilia due to those factors, or due to his actions being "commanded by God," then fair enough. However, there are many Mormons who put Smith on a pedestal and genuinely believe he only had sex with Emma, and that frankly just isn't accurate.



The church however won't ever defeat itself; true many more members will probably leave the church in the coming years due to the information available, but there will still be many more than ever due to the sheer growth of the church all over the world.

If you truly believe the message of your church is for everyone, then every time anyone leaves the church, it should be considered a defeat. The Deseret News makes me sick; it basically reported the mass exodus of members following the recent decisions about children of same sex couples as "separating the wheat from the tares" (or, to use the vernacular, "the only people who left were people who were already on the fringe or otherwise not strong enough to stay"). That's frankly arrogant and awful given how hard it was for many to come to the painful realization that the church they've followed their whole life is not what they always believed it is. And you know better than most that the LDS church is harder to quit than most churches, because you aren't just giving up a church. In many cases, you are giving up your entire social circle and will likely be shunned by family, neighbors, and coworkers too. Not strong enough to stay? Try finally found the strength to leave.


And I have noticed a little bit about the church and the internet, only recently have they really embraced it and have started making the not-so-good things more open to public knowledge, but they're doing their best.

I disagree. Their best would be to acknowledge that a lot of what they propagate is intentionally mediated in order to make people believe things that aren't true. And while you and I disagree on the doctrine, here's an example that doesn't engage doctrine, for the sake of respectful discussion: it is widely known and acknowledged, even by the church itself, that Smith conducted his dictation of the BoM by looking into a seer stone by burying his face in a hat. The historical record very well supports that the plates were not used at all during the translation. Eyewitnesses of the dictation have stated this. Why, then, does the church continue to publish and widely use images that show Joseph translating directly from the plates? Doing so disseminates a history that the church itself admits is not accurate. The reason they do it is because it presents a more credible history than the truth. More people are willing to accept the teachings if they think they were transcribed from an ancient record rather than orally composed by a guy looking at a stone in a hat. This is but one of many examples where the church will fess up to its inaccuracies, but only if you look hard enough. "Their best" would be to stop promoting the lies and start teaching the truth. Until they do, their followers are merely being coerced, not converted.


And if you don't mind me asking, what drove you away specifically? Or was it a lot of things clumped together?

Way too many things to mention. Let's just sum it up as a combination of Martin Luther, archaeology, and "by its fruits you shall know it"


Overall very nice post, thanks for your input!

You seem like a good dude. All the best to you. Sounds like you have a happy and fulfilling life and I hope that endures.

Oh, and BTW, I hope my Utes beat the snot out of your Cougars today. No pity for kitties!

[CakeorDeath]

So explain yearly tithing settlement? From what I know, you have to meet with a bishop at year's end and if you haven't tithed 10%, you basically have to pay your debt or be a pariah in the church. That's essentially a requirement to continue onto the 'path to heaven.' That's what scientology makes you do; pay to achieve the spiritual enlightenment. That's cultish. Other churches have the 10% biblical tithing guideline but they don't have 'settlement' meetings if you chose not to give up 10% of your salary.

You don't become a pariah per se. You just can't maintain a temple recommend, which means you can't enter any of the temples and participate in any of the ordinances there (which include both things you do for yourself, usually once for your whole life, things you do by proxy for dead people who didn't do them in life, and things you do as a witness, like watching friends/family members get married), until you have an active recommend again. If anyone other than your bishopric (bishop plus his two councilors) or ward clerk (financial officer of the congregation) know that you aren't a full tithe payer, it means that someone in the know didn't maintain the appropriate level of discretion. Your tithing situation is not ever meant to be made public.

To their credit, bishops do not know what you earn and they therefore do not/cannot verify if you paid exactly 10%. They simply present a statement of what you have paid and then ask you if you feel in your heart that you are a full tithe payer. Say yes, and you're off the hook. There are also exceptions made for people who can't afford it. So it's not that bad.

There is also a huge discrepancy as to what constitutes a full tithe. Some say it is 10% of your gross income, some say it is 10% of your net income, some say it is 10% of your increase, meaning your available income after all your monthly expenses are paid. Again, because the bishop just asks you if you feel like you have paid a full tithe, your own interpretation, and not his, dictates how you answer that question.

[TheMan]

As your resident Mormon this is a bunch of BS, however entertaining it may be.

And where NumberSix have you heard that we kill people who leave the church? Whatever group that may have done that, they're certainly my not a part of the main group.

And why ROCsteady do you hate us? We're not all that bad.

Overall some funny stuff here, entertaining. As for the OP, no we do not have what it takes to become the next Muslims, and we won't flop out like the JW's either.
Mormons don't kill people???

Bruh, I watched Big Love :coleman:

[Nash]

I spent a few months in Provo, Utah when I was younger.
EVERYONE there is Mormon.

Honestly they seemed pretty nice but they give off that creepy vibe.
Also a few of them told me how *********ion is terrible like... out of the blue during casual conversations.

Why the hell is masturb@ation censored?
Anyway...
I bet their sacks are heavy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7vWi8sosg4&t=6m5s

[WayOfWade]

Thanks for the response. It's good to get perspective from those in the clutches

So explain yearly tithing settlement? From what I know, you have to meet with a bishop at year's end and if you haven't tithed 10%, you basically have to pay your debt or be a pariah in the church. That's essentially a requirement to continue onto the 'path to heaven.' That's what scientology makes you do; pay to achieve the spiritual enlightenment. That's cultish. Other churches have the 10% biblical tithing guideline but they don't have 'settlement' meetings if you chose not to give up 10% of your salary.

Also, the difference in Jesus and Joseph Smith is that regardless of either's legitimacy, Jesus is a figure respected across the globe for hundreds and thousands of years and by believers of other religions. Even non-believers have love for the teachings of Christ. NOBODY respects or has love for some blonde dude with a generic name outside of paying customers of Mormonism.
The Tithing settlement is something that is required of you, but if you don't pay it it's not like you have to pay back what you haven't. And when I say required of you, it's a commandment but if you don't you won't get stoned or anything crazy like that, you just won't be able to receive a temple recommend (i.e. enter into the temple), but you can go to church, go to church activities, all the likes. And as for paying your way to Heaven, we are not saying that you pay 10% and you automatically make it there, there are a multitude of things you need to do, and paying tithing is just one of them. Now that probably sounds a little insane, but tithing was something taught from Abraham's time and is still valid today. I don't really want to comment on Scientology's version because I am not too familiar with them or their practices at all. But I hope I could clear that up a little.
And I can understand your differentiation for Joseph Smith and Jesus, but why would the world be so in love with Joseph Smith if it hated many prophets that came before? Isaiah and Jeremiah were martyred, Daniel as well as his friends were not very well received in King Nebudkanezzar's courts (mispelled name, my bad), the people wanted to kill Noah, they did kill Jesus, the list goes on. Now from a Homer Mormon perspective, that's because the Devil doesn't want anyone to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, so he does his best to make everyone hate him in whatever way he can thus preventing their salvation; that includes making people disbelieve him yet believe Jesus and thinking that that's completely fine. From a worldly perspective, Joseph was a crazy dude that still has a crazy following even today. It all really depends on who you ask and how far you're willing to actually look into it.

[WayOfWade]

@CakeorDeath

Well, I think the true issue here is the concept of belief. It is beyond doubt that Smith had sexual relationships with many women, some of whom were under the age of 18 (and some of whom were already married to other men, and some of whom were already pregnant by their husbands). The historicity of this is far too well supported for doubt to remain. Now, whether or not you believe that some of this behavior amounts to pedophilia based on the mores that existed within that culture and within that temporal context is a different question. If you believe that his actions don't constitute pedophilia due to those factors, or due to his actions being "commanded by God," then fair enough. However, there are many Mormons who put Smith on a pedestal and genuinely believe he only had sex with Emma, and that frankly just isn't accurate.
Pretty much all you said is completely true. I don't doubt Smith had sex with more women, but that has to do more with God commanding it that than anything (typing that sounds a little crazy, but this would't be the first time God has commanded such things). And the pedophilia has to do more with perception like you said. Nick Young takes it as modern day people do seeing as knocking up a 14-year old is a no-no, however teen marriages were quite common back in that day and age. And as for Mormons putting Joseph on a pedesetal, many are mistakened in that particular belief, Smith had his flaws like everybody else, however their adoration of him isn't too far misplaced.


If you truly believe the message of your church is for everyone, then every time anyone leaves the church, it should be considered a defeat. The Deseret News makes me sick; it basically reported the mass exodus of members following the recent decisions about children of same sex couples as "separating the wheat from the tares" (or, to use the vernacular, "the only people who left were people who were already on the fringe or otherwise not strong enough to stay"). That's frankly arrogant and awful given how hard it was for many to come to the painful realization that the church they've followed their whole life is not what they always believed it is. And you know better than most that the LDS church is harder to quit than most churches, because you aren't just giving up a church. In many cases, you are giving up your entire social circle and will likely be shunned by family, neighbors, and coworkers too. Not strong enough to stay? Try finally found the strength to leave.
Everytime someone leaves the church it is considered a defeat. Even our Apostle Elder Holland (and even president Hinckely) said that the Leaders were doing something wrong because so many Returned Missionaries were going inactive, and something needed to be fixed. And that is pretty harsh stuff about the Wheats and the Tares, and I can understand your displeasure seeing as as a country we believe all people are equal. However, false beliefs will not get you your salvation, while that comparison is a little extreme (I wouldn't use it myself), it is at least in some sort of way true (from the perspective of someone who believes the church is true). That whole situation was a little crazy, but in the end people got upset over what they believe and not what God desires them to believe. I don't want to sound rude and arrogant, but in the end we need to put what God says over what we say (Isaiah 55:8-9), if I did sound rude and arrogant though, please tell me.


I disagree. Their best would be to acknowledge that a lot of what they propagate is intentionally mediated in order to make people believe things that aren't true. And while you and I disagree on the doctrine, here's an example that doesn't engage doctrine, for the sake of respectful discussion: it is widely known and acknowledged, even by the church itself, that Smith conducted his dictation of the BoM by looking into a seer stone by burying his face in a hat. The historical record very well supports that the plates were not used at all during the translation. Eyewitnesses of the dictation have stated this. Why, then, does the church continue to publish and widely use images that show Joseph translating directly from the plates? Doing so disseminates a history that the church itself admits is not accurate. The reason they do it is because it presents a more credible history than the truth. More people are willing to accept the teachings if they think they were transcribed from an ancient record rather than orally composed by a guy looking at a stone in a hat. This is but one of many examples where the church will fess up to its inaccuracies, but only if you look hard enough. "Their best" would be to stop promoting the lies and start teaching the truth. Until they do, their followers are merely being coerced, not converted.
I cannot tell you how good it is to talk to someone who actually knows what they're talking about, thanks for the response. And yes I know very much about that Joseph Smith in the hat translation, although my memory is a bit fogged due to it being years since I actually researched it, I'll have to look back into it which I'll probably do later today. But good question as to why the church shows pictures of him translating the plates as it is, firstly just know I am stating my opinion which may or may not be in accordance with what the church says, but I think they do it not to weird people out at first. Now that may seem dishonest, but you simply don't go into straight deep doctrine at first with people. For a better example, you just shove meat into a babies mouth, you have to give it the milk first. You don't tell people that Smith translated through a hat, you tell them he translated the plates (which he did, I'll get into more detail why at a later time) and then get into how. On first dates you ask get to know you questions, not how many kids they want to have? My bad if they're bad examples, it is 3am and I just can't go to sleep. Your point of view is completely understandable and I can see how the church doesn't completely fess up to this stuff, but they are making an effort to make it more public knowledge, however small that effort may be.


Way too many things to mention. Let's just sum it up as a combination of Martin Luther, archaeology, and "by its fruits you shall know it"
Very intersting, I get the archaeology, not much Martin Luther (I imagine some teaching), an the Fruits is most interesting. That scripture was always a popular one to use on the mission to present the modern day church and the Book of Mormon, if you don't mind which "fruits" turned you off?


You seem like a good dude. All the best to you. Sounds like you have a happy and fulfilling life and I hope that endures.

Oh, and BTW, I hope my Utes beat the snot out of your Cougars today. No pity for kitties!
Thanks dude :cheers: Sounds like you're having a great life too, and in the end (in a sense) that's all you can ask for.
And the first quarter of that game was incredibly painful to watch, two Pick-6's?! Holy crap, at least we made it close at the end. Next year though...

[warriorfan]

way of wade slayed some trolls in this thread

not bad

[WayOfWade]

The Morons are a nutcase cult built on a foundation of violence.




As if God cares about those looney toon Charlatans XD



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre#Strident_Mormon_teaching s





This is the same kind of nutcase shit that lead to the Anabaptist Munster Rebellion, lead by a conman similar to Joseph Smith, Bernhard Knipperdolling. It is a shame that the US army didn't knip this nutcase cult in the bud before it had a chance to grow.



HINT HINT Morons: A plague of locusts coming to attack you when you settle in a valley is a sign that God DOESN'T want you to be there XD
Alright Nick, firstly I ask you to please rid yourself of hate and try to read objectively without thinking "what an idiot!"
The Mormon church is not built on violence; it's history may contain violence, both on its part and on part of its oppressors, but its foundation is built on Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, Modern Day Prophets, and the Family. Were it established on Violence, we were be the American ISIS, which we're not.

As if God cares about those Looney tune Charlatans, if you say that I imagine you'd also say that God doesn't care about Jesus, letting him hang on the cross and all, or about Paul who he let rot in a jail for years and then get beheaded. Just because horrible things happen to people, it doesn't mean God doesn't love them. If anything, it's a step in the process to show them that he does. And before you say that's crazy talk, allow me to read you a scripture, "Ye cannot behold with your natural eyes, for the present time, the design of your God concerning those things which shall come hereafter, and the glory which shall follow much tribulation. For after much tribulation come the blessings. Wherefore the day cometh that ye shall be crowned with much glory; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand." Read up!

And using that Locust logic apparently I'm guessing that Jews weren't ever really welcome in Jerusalem, due to the large amount of invasions and bloodshed that follow them there even today, in spite of the fact that that's where God specifically told them to go in the Bible.

Based off your general comments, I'd assume you aren't very religious; and if you are, you don't put in practice what you know. Love one another (John 15:12,17), Judge using Righteous Judgement (John 7:24) not just spewing whatever comes to your mind, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Matthew 7:12) seeing as all you do is call me crazy, insult my religion, and don't respond to anything I say that refutes emphatically everything you have said.

And you seem very obsessed with the Mountain Meadows Massacre, so I'll dedicate a paragraph just for you. IT WAS DESPICABLE! I read it and I think "Holy Crap, those Mormons were crazy," and you know why? Because they probably were. That was pretty much murder, so those guys are going to get what's coming to them in the next life. But please do me and the world a favor, and stop judging an entire religion based off of one incident. Once again using your logic, all Catholics must be child-molesting monsters and all Muslims must be dying to bomb New York City (no pun intended).

If you ever post in this thread again, please post something objective and praise-worthy like RocSteady or CadeorDeath do, those guys are legit. And a challenge if you will, could you find anything I have posted that is wrong or misleading?

[WayOfWade]

way of wade slayed some trolls in this thread

not bad
Thanks dude! You do the same thing to most posters in the NBA forum

[WayOfWade]

Blood atonement? The White Horse prophecy? Mormons are definitely violent.
Blood Atonement? You mean people paying for their sins with their own blood (in the next life) if they commit absolutely horrible sins in this life that you can't repent for?
The White Horse Prophecy? You mean that falsified prophecy from Joseph Smith that he never actually uttered? And before you tell me that people back then report that he prophesied that stuff, know that they were idiots who didn't know what they were talking about, stringing together random sentences uttered by the prophet to make some fantastic prophecy out of nothing. If you want a modern day example, check out "Bump-Gate" between LeBron James and Erik Spoelstra
I really hope this was a troll post, even if my time was wasted responding to it

[WayOfWade]

You need to grow up and get out of your proto-scientology cult founded by racists and conmen.


Do you actually believe that the Native Americans are a "lost tribe of Israel?" :lol

Don't worry you don't have to answer. I've read the Book of Mormon. i know the twisted shit you and the rest of your dying cult believe.
I posted beforehand about the Racism, and here you are acting like I haven't spoken on the subject :facepalm
Please do something educated and tell me WHY they were racists and conmen; I can respect your opinion if you can ever actually type it out in a way that seems plausible
And Yes I do believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel.
And you've read the Book of Mormon eh? Why don't you then explain to me SPECIFICALLY the twisted sh*t me and the rest of my growing church believe?

[NumberSix]

I posted beforehand about the Racism, and here you are acting like I haven't spoken on the subject :facepalm
Please do something educated and tell me WHY they were racists and conmen; I can respect your opinion if you can ever actually type it out in a way that seems plausible
And Yes I do believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel.
And you've read the Book of Mormon eh? Why don't you then explain to me SPECIFICALLY the twisted sh*t me and the rest of my growing church believe?
Does it not bother you at all that one of the main elements of Joseph Smith's revelation was "god wants me to fcuk all your wives"? Does that not seem even a little bit sketchy?

[Nick Young]

I posted beforehand about the Racism, and here you are acting like I haven't spoken on the subject :facepalm
Please do something educated and tell me WHY they were racists and conmen; I can respect your opinion if you can ever actually type it out in a way that seems plausible

And you've read the Book of Mormon eh? Why don't you then explain to me SPECIFICALLY the twisted sh*t me and the rest of my growing church believe?

All you did was deny it.

Brigham Young was a racist white supremacist.

Joseph Smith was also a flaming racist.

These are your two biggest "prophets".


Congratulations. You sure picked a couple of winners:cheers:



And Yes I do believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel.

I feel sorry for you.

[Nick Young]

Does it not bother you at all that one of the main elements of Joseph Smith's revelation was "god wants me to fcuk all your wives"? Does that not seem even a little bit sketchy?
Smith copied Jan Matthys's playbook nearly play for play:roll: at least Matthys had the conviction to martyize himself in the name of his beliefs and didn't go out a sniveling coward like Joseph Smith did.


I cannot understand how so many people are so stupid that they are willing to dedicate their lives to follow the teachings of the con men charlatans Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

[WayOfWade]

Does it not bother you at all that one of the main elements of Joseph Smith's revelation was "god wants me to fcuk all your wives"? Does that not seem even a little bit sketchy?
That wasn't one of the main revelations, the revelation was Polygamy (however sketched out that may be, God ordered it in Genesis with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and did likewise with David and Solomon). As for marrying other wives, to be honest that's something I need to look a little more into, but in case you're interested in learning more about this stuff, here's a little essay for you
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

[Nick Young]

That wasn't one of the main revelations, the revelation was Polygamy (however sketched out that may be, God ordered it in Genesis with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and did likewise with David and Solomon). As for marrying other wives, to be honest that's something I need to look a little more into, but in case you're interested in learning more about this stuff, here's a little essay for you
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
A "little essay" from the biased cult leader's point of view.


LOL again at this cultist comparing the racist Charlatan kiddy fiddler Joseph Smith to Abraham and Isaac:lol

[WayOfWade]

All you did was deny it.

Brigham Young was a racist white supremacist.

Joseph Smith was also a flaming racist.

These are your two biggest "prophets".


Congratulations. You sure picked a couple of winners:cheers:




I feel sorry for you.
All you do is post the same crap over and over again. Now it's time for some clarification. Here is a quote from Joseph Smith...

[WayOfWade]

A "little essay" from the biased cult leader's point of view.


LOL again at this cultist comparing the racist Charlatan kiddy fiddler Joseph Smith to Abraham and Isaac:lol
Hey Nick, could you please show me where I am wrong? I said Joseph Smith practiced Polygamy, exactly like those I listed did. Was that a Mistake? No it wasn't, stop dodging the facts I throw at you. And if you want to know more about the polygamy, I simply provided an essay from our point of view which is actually kind of important. A good example is the NBA today, according to your logic, it must be blasphemous to interview players on their current situations, because their opinion must be biased. Even if it is, it provides valuable insight into what's actually going on and helps you to understand them.
Once again please show me where I posted anything wrong or mistaken, and not just throwing slight insults at my leaders or me.
And a quick question if you could, do you actually have a problem with the church as it is today or just the history of it?

[Nick Young]

Your belief that Brigham Young and Joseph Smith are prophets sent from God shows you are wrong.

Your dedication to your life of cultish Moronism shows you are wrong.

The fact that you genuinely believe the Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel shows you are wrong.

I don't need to write shit to prove anything, because your brainwashed mind isn't going to believe it anyways.


The fact that you don't even know the real history of your boy Joseph Smith, and think he was "martyred" shows you are wrong.

Cultists gonna cult.

Mormons gonna Moron.

[Nick Young]

And a quick question if you could, do you actually have a problem with the church as it is today or just the history of it?
I have a problem with all cults that operate in the same way Moronism and Scientology do. I have a problem with all cults like Mormonism that manipulate, repress, and brainwash people like you who don't know any better.


I hope you get out one day. Good luck.

[ShaqTwizzle]

I have a problem with all cults like Mormonism that manipulate, repress, and brainwash people like you who don't know any better.

Sounds like you are describing Islam to me.

[Nick Young]

Sounds like you are describing Islam to me.
I am against Islamic terrorism, but I know for a fact, as I have lived in a Muslim country, not all Muslims practice Islam in the insane cultish way that a majority of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists slavishly follow their own cult.

Islam encourages charity but it doesn't force its members to pay a yearly membership fee.

[WayOfWade]

Your belief that Brigham Young and Joseph Smith are prophets sent from God shows you are wrong.

Your dedication to your life of cultish Moronism shows you are wrong.

The fact that you genuinely believe the Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel shows you are wrong.

I don't need to write shit to prove anything, because your brainwashed mind isn't going to believe it anyways.


The fact that you don't even know the real history of your boy Joseph Smith, and think he was "martyred" shows you are wrong.

Cultists gonna cult.

Mormons gonna Moron.
You tell me by believing things I am wrong, yet you show absolutely no evidence to support your claims. Stop acting like a child and actually post something other than "You're wrong, I'm right, Mountain Meadows Massacre."
Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet? Yeah he was, God appears to prophets in visions (Numbers 12:6,8) which is exactly what happened to Joseph Smith. God will do nothing unless he reveals his secrets to his prophets (Amos 3:7), the church is built upon Apostles and, you guessed it, Prophets (Ephesians 2:20, 4:11-14). You say I'm crazy and wrong for the things I say, which surprisingly the Pharisees said about Jesus on various occasions (Matthew 12:24 being one).
The fact that you are dedicating so much time to simply hate on a good religion with good people just goes to show how sad your life must be. It must suck to log onto here with the sole purpose being to bring others down, post negative insights and try to prove you're right.
And I have read very thoroughly into Joseph Smith's Martyrdom, much more thoroughly than you have. I know he tried to escape to the West before being captured, I know he shot multiple people while being attacked in the prison, I know he tried to save his life and escape at the last moments; I also know he went (to jail) willingly, he knew he was going to die, and he did die. I also know that the great work he started is still going forth through all ends of the earth, and nothing you do or say will stop it.
Now be a man and either calm down and write something constructive, or let it be and leave. Based on almost every comment you've typed so far, neither seems very likely, but I have faith

[WayOfWade]

I have a problem with all cults that operate in the same way Moronism and Scientology do. I have a problem with all cults like Mormonism that manipulate, repress, and brainwash people like you who don't know any better.


I hope you get out one day. Good luck.
Reading this, I understand your point of view, however please do me a favor and stop posting "Moronism," that's childish and pointless. If you have a problem with our RELIGION, so be it. And don't tell me I don't know any better, I have looked into everything you have posted long before you even did, and I am fine where I am at, same as you are. I'm an adult who can make my own decisions; yeah I was influenced a lot by the church as a kid, but my decision to be here today, to be a missionary for 2 years in a foreign country was my decision, especially since I have family who have chose not to.

In the end, I hope you have a great life and find it fulfilling, no matter what your circumstances. Good Luck.

[Nick Young]

Reading this, I understand your point of view, however please do me a favor and stop posting "Moronism," that's childish and pointless. If you have a problem with our RELIGION, so be it. And don't tell me I don't know any better, I have looked into everything you have posted long before you even did, and I am fine where I am at, same as you are.

I have a problem with your CULT. I will mock it and satirize it as much as I feel like doing.

I'm an American and I like exercising my rights, thanks :cheers:

I will continue to mock the Morons and will continue to hope that their cult ends soon, so hopefully more people don't grow up under their repressive doctrines.

You don't know any better.


You have shown throughout this thread that you aren't even familiar with the history of the life of your own holy "prophet".



I'm an adult who can make my own decisions; yeah I was influenced a lot by the church as a kid, but my decision to be here today, to be a missionary for 2 years in a foreign country was my decision, especially since I have family who have chose not to.

No it wasn't. The peer pressure of the Moron cult you grew up under lead you to making that "decision" on "your own".

[NumberSix]

Make Mormonism great again

[Nick Young]

Make Mormonism great again
LOL just like it was back when it first began. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[WayOfWade]

I have a problem with your CULT. I will mock it and satirize it as much as I feel like doing.

I'm an American and I like exercising my rights, thanks :cheers:

I will continue to mock the Morons and will continue to hope that their cult ends soon, so hopefully more people don't grow up under their repressive doctrines.

You don't know any better.


You have shown throughout this thread that you aren't even familiar with the history of the life of your own holy "prophet".




No it wasn't. The peer pressure of the Moron cult you grew up under lead you to making that "decision" on "your own".
Fine, Mock and Satirize as you please, I will not stop you. And if you hope this "cult" will end soon, you are dead wrong, we're here to stay for the long haul.
And the mission was my decision, keep believing your own little fantasy that it wasn't. However you are so blinded by stupidity and hatred to ever somewhat consider that a possibility.
And as I have shown throughout this thread, I am much more familiar with Church history than you are. Here you have claimed that Joseph Smith is a pedo, which I debunked thoroughly due to the fact that Pedos are attracted to children, and he married a 14-year old which is not only not a child, but teen marriage was normal back in the day. Polygamy wasn't, but as I have stated (and will now with Scripture, 2 Samuel 12:7), God can command it.
You claim that the church is dying, yet I recall being a missionary in Ecuador and seeing vast growth all over the place, and statistics back me up more than your "opinion."
Nick, if you are any sort of respectable poster, show me something I have posted that is FALSE, and prove it is using something other than your opinion.
I have spoken on Mountain Meadows, Polygamy, the False Pedo belief you're so twisted in, the Racism (which after I posted about you refused to acknowledge), and many more things which included scriptures on top of it all, and you refuse to accept your defeat on any of these topics. In fact, all you will probably is restate your beliefs because you're an American and you can do what you want, including acting foolish and childish. Please, because in this post I am responding to, all you did was say I am not familiar with my history (in spite of all the history I have already posted), say you hope this religion dies, and insult me by saying I don't make my own choices (which I do, but you're twisted mind won't accept anything that goes against what you already believe, it's called a hasty generalization for you to assume we're all robots).
And to finish this off, Joseph Smith was a prophet of God; I know it, and no matter what you do and say this will not change. At the very least, try to not be hateful, I do believe being respectful is a decent request. Whether or not you are kind and generous enough to accommodate such a request is up to you

[Nick Young]

Joseph Smith married and banged a 14 year old. And here you are defending him:lol

Pure brainwashed. You are deeply embroiled in a cult, and when you had your crisis of faith you decided to double-down and go all-in on the cult doctrine.


Good for you.

But you still don't know any better.

Moronism is a cult and always will be.


Deal with it.



And to finish this off, Joseph Smith was a prophet of God; I know it, and no matter what you do and say this will not change. At the very least, try to not be hateful, I do believe being respectful is a decent request. Whether or not you are kind and generous enough to accommodate such a request is up to you
Holy shit have you set your sites low by choosing this conman charlatan who banged 14 year olds to follow as your prophet of God XD

I feel bad for yourself and the other members of your cult.


I hate all cultish doctrines that repress and brainwash the followers of their cult. I will always speak out against Moronism and other similar cultists such as Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

[WayOfWade]

Joseph Smith married and banged a 14 year old. And here you are defending him:lol

Pure brainwashed. You are deeply embroiled in a cult, and when you had your crisis of faith you decided to double-down and go all-in on the cult doctrine.


Good for you.

But you still don't know any better.

Moronism is a cult and always will be.


Deal with it.


Holy shit have you set your sites low by choosing this conman charlatan who banged 14 year olds to follow as your prophet of God XD

I feel bad for yourself and the other members of your cult.


I hate all cultish doctrines that repress and brainwash the followers of their cult. I will always speak out against Moronism and other similar cultists such as Scientologists and Jehovah's Witnesses.
http://gif.co/phd6.gif

[Nick Young]

This is how I choose to live my life.
http://emergewithus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/head_in_the_sand-461x307.jpg

:cheers:

[Nick Young]

Remember ISH-do not be afraid to speak out against cults.

Fear of cults is what allows those cults to grow.


If more people spoke out against this cult created by a Charlatan pedophile Joseph Smith when it was first created, we wouldn't have so many people today growing up in suffering under his cultish teachings.




SAY NO TO CULTS

[CakeorDeath]

Remember ISH-do not be afraid to speak out against cults.

Fear of cults is what allows those cults to grow.


If more people spoke out against this cult created by a Charlatan pedophile Joseph Smith when it was first created, we wouldn't have so many people today growing up in suffering under his cultish teachings.




SAY NO TO CULTS

Says the guy who refers to a man many believe to be guilty of sexual assault as "Godbe/Gawdbe"

You can have all the reasons in the world to hate a particular church or corporation or whatever. I myself have plenty of reasons to hate the LDS church.

But all you've done in this thread is go above and beyond normal measures to personally attack, defame, and offend a guy who has refused to do the same to you. Disagree with him all you want, but Wade has been completely respectful of your opinions. Perhaps you should offer him the same courtesy.

[Nick Young]

Gawdbe is innnocent in the eyes of the US court of law as well as the court of GOD.

[CakeorDeath]

Gawdbe is innnocent in the eyes of the US court of law as well as the court of GOD.

No US court of law ever found Kobe innocent. He never went to trial. It was all settled out of court.

Not sure what God thinks.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Nick aren't you jewish?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Nick aren't you jewish?

Yes and your point?

Judaism is a legitimate religion with actual prophets of God.

[Nick Young]

Yes and your point?

Judaism is a legitimate religion with actual prophets of God.
YCC UNITE:rockon:

God is great.
Allah Ahchbar.

[Norcaliblunt]

Mormons are like those corporations that ship their companies overseas. Unamerican traitors.

[Rab]

Wade, I certainly respect you for standing up for your beliefs, and in general, taking the high road when others don't return the favor. I usually pass on posting in topics that are religion or politics based. Just doesn't seem worth the effort or time, however, I felt compelled to post in this one largely due to the fact that I was, or technically still am by membership record only, a Mormon. I grew up in the church, I did everything the church asked, hit all the "milestones", did the temple thing, did the mission thing, temple marriage, etc.

I have kids, and am well into my mid to late 30's, been married for 15 years to a still practicing Mormon women. I guess you can say I've always had some unease about the church, for about as long as I can remember, but I continued to plug away and do everything as sincerely as possible, thinking that one day it would just "click". As time moved on and I got into my late 20's and early 30's. I hit the wall with the church I guess you can say. Some of the doctrinal teachings I learned from an early age bothered me (blacks & priesthood, polygamy, temple ordinances) and I always had felt the need to learn more. Before the invention of the internet, researching the history and true doctrine of the church wasn't always easy, and a small part of me bought into the church rhetoric of staying away from "anti material".

The internet is the enemy of the church. All the information that was not so easily accessed since the beginning of the church is now right at our fingertips. It's been eye opening to see some of true history of the church and how it was created. One of the things that I have the most trepidation with this church, is the Joseph Smith story. Here's why. The church claims to be centered around Christ, but in all reality, it is not. It's largely centered around Joseph Smith and his story. If you don't believe in that story, there's no way one can believe in the Mormon church at all. Once I discovered and understood more of the history of Joseph Smith, and not just the church spun story, the more that foundation crumbled. At first it was truly disturbing to hear of the items I was reading about, and at times, thought some were sensationalized. Some things are, so it's up to the person to choose reliable sources to consume information from. Whether it was reading about his dozens of wives (whether sexually related or simply by ceremony only) this was disturbing to me, and once I confirmed this on a church operated genealogy website, I knew I would never look at him the same. Then to read on and hear there are actually about 7 different versions of the First Vision written by Joseph, knowing that he used his seer rock in the hat to "translate" the Book of Mormon when we've been told for years he used a tool given to him to do so. The translation of the most "perfect book ever written" has been changed numerous times and those changes have literally changed doctrine.

It's more a corporation than a church. It has it's CEO, it's Board of Directors, it's territorial managers, middle management, etc. It uses sales tactics and strategies to sell their product to consumers. I know, I did it, and the more familiar I became with business through the years, the more I realized it. Everything from the way the discussions are set up using the commitment pattern, to the way you're not supposed to frame your questions to be open ended, to the way they advertise via church films and social media. It's a church of numbers and stats. It's a corporate model.

It's a church that throughout history has changed and morphed given different economic and social climates. Once confronted by government or social pressure, it's a church that has a pattern of conforming while claiming it's revelation from God that has inspired the change. Polygamy and blacks and the priesthood come to mind. I don't know how any member of the church could honestly believe that God suddenly revealed that it was okay for blacks to receive Priesthood and temple blessing while in the middle of the US Civil Rights Movement. Same thing happened with polygamy when pressured by government to end something that was illegal in the country at the time. They even softened their stance on gays, and will willingly collect your money and time as long as you don't act on your feelings, knowing that they can't possibly reach Celestial glory or gain temple rights because of their sexual orientation. But, it's odd that would take a stance against children of gay parents getting baptized. They teach men shall be punished for their own sins, and not by Adam's transgression. I guess that only applies when convenient.

It's claims of growth are generally misconstrued. I actually spoke to a Stake Clerk a few years back who had information passed along to him through local Stake leaders that out of the 15 million members of the church, about 1/3 are what you call "active" members. My brother was a missionary in Central America. He baptized many, but many did not stay in the church long term. I myself, stayed in the states, and didn't see a ton of growth at all. They tout numbers all the time, but those numbers aren't always what they seem. Temple attendance is down, though new ones are built every year.

It's an incredibly intrusive and demanding organization. Between work and church callings, I rarely got to see my father as a youngster. When my daughter was baptized a few years ago, the first question they asked her at her interview was whether or not she understood the law of tithing, nothing about the promises she was about to make to God and Christ. This was an 8 year old girl, mind you. It's a church that makes you feel like no matter how much you do, you're not doing enough. It's no wonder that Utah is a country leader in porn subscriptions, teen suicide rate, and anti depressant usage. As a teenager under the age of 18, I was asked almost every year by a bishop during interviews whether or not I whacked off. I find that incredibly offensive and wrong for a stranger to ask a minor that question.

This is a church that teaches you can't know good without evil, sadness without happiness, but doesn't allow it's members to check out the other side of Mormonism, and instills the fear of lost temple rights, or loss of family or eternal salvation to keep members in line. It's no wonder they have gone to such great lengths to hide some of it's history and due to the internet, is now being forced to acknowledge with their own spin.

Look man, there is a lot of good with this church. It teaches good things, and in general, most members I know are good people. It provides structure and a social outlet for it's members. If it works for you, great. It didn't work for me. I could go on for days about specifics and why it doesn't. Keep an open mind, my friend.

[ROCSteady]

Why is the Mormon church so focused on beating off?

That's very odd to focus on it. Is that built in to make sure that once one gets old enough they never beat off and always have enough horniness and sperm to have 8 kids with as many wives as they feel like?

On that notion how is it so terrible to get a nut by one's self but it's not terrible to 'redefine' God's intent of marriage by having multiple wives?

Isn't that the whole battle on Gays by Christians? Mockery of how God laid out the idea of marriage in the Bible?

Why don't Christians wage war on the Mormons for taking multiple wives and mocking God's idea of marriage?

[WayOfWade]

I have kids, and am well into my mid to late 30's, been married for 15 years to a still practicing Mormon women. I guess you can say I've always had some unease about the church, for about as long as I can remember, but I continued to plug away and do everything as sincerely as possible, thinking that one day it would just "click". As time moved on and I got into my late 20's and early 30's. I hit the wall with the church I guess you can say. Some of the doctrinal teachings I learned from an early age bothered me (blacks & priesthood, polygamy, temple ordinances) and I always had felt the need to learn more. Before the invention of the internet, researching the history and true doctrine of the church wasn't always easy, and a small part of me bought into the church rhetoric of staying away from "anti material".

The internet is the enemy of the church. All the information that was not so easily accessed since the beginning of the church is now right at our fingertips. It's been eye opening to see some of true history of the church and how it was created. One of the things that I have the most trepidation with this church, is the Joseph Smith story. Here's why. The church claims to be centered around Christ, but in all reality, it is not. It's largely centered around Joseph Smith and his story. If you don't believe in that story, there's no way one can believe in the Mormon church at all. Once I discovered and understood more of the history of Joseph Smith, and not just the church spun story, the more that foundation crumbled. At first it was truly disturbing to hear of the items I was reading about, and at times, thought some were sensationalized. Some things are, so it's up to the person to choose reliable sources to consume information from. Whether it was reading about his dozens of wives (whether sexually related or simply by ceremony only) this was disturbing to me, and once I confirmed this on a church operated genealogy website, I knew I would never look at him the same. Then to read on and hear there are actually about 7 different versions of the First Vision written by Joseph, knowing that he used his seer rock in the hat to "translate" the Book of Mormon when we've been told for years he used a tool given to him to do so. The translation of the most "perfect book ever written" has been changed numerous times and those changes have literally changed doctrine.

It's more a corporation than a church. It has it's CEO, it's Board of Directors, it's territorial managers, middle management, etc. It uses sales tactics and strategies to sell their product to consumers. I know, I did it, and the more familiar I became with business through the years, the more I realized it. Everything from the way the discussions are set up using the commitment pattern, to the way you're not supposed to frame your questions to be open ended, to the way they advertise via church films and social media. It's a church of numbers and stats. It's a corporate model.

It's a church that throughout history has changed and morphed given different economic and social climates. Once confronted by government or social pressure, it's a church that has a pattern of conforming while claiming it's revelation from God that has inspired the change. Polygamy and blacks and the priesthood come to mind. I don't know how any member of the church could honestly believe that God suddenly revealed that it was okay for blacks to receive Priesthood and temple blessing while in the middle of the US Civil Rights Movement. Same thing happened with polygamy when pressured by government to end something that was illegal in the country at the time. They even softened their stance on gays, and will willingly collect your money and time as long as you don't act on your feelings, knowing that they can't possibly reach Celestial glory or gain temple rights because of their sexual orientation. But, it's odd that would take a stance against children of gay parents getting baptized. They teach men shall be punished for their own sins, and not by Adam's transgression. I guess that only applies when convenient.

It's claims of growth are generally misconstrued. I actually spoke to a Stake Clerk a few years back who had information passed along to him through local Stake leaders that out of the 15 million members of the church, about 1/3 are what you call "active" members. My brother was a missionary in Central America. He baptized many, but many did not stay in the church long term. I myself, stayed in the states, and didn't see a ton of growth at all. They tout numbers all the time, but those numbers aren't always what they seem. Temple attendance is down, though new ones are built every year.

It's an incredibly intrusive and demanding organization. Between work and church callings, I rarely got to see my father as a youngster. When my daughter was baptized a few years ago, the first question they asked her at her interview was whether or not she understood the law of tithing, nothing about the promises she was about to make to God and Christ. This was an 8 year old girl, mind you. It's a church that makes you feel like no matter how much you do, you're not doing enough. It's no wonder that Utah is a country leader in porn subscriptions, teen suicide rate, and anti depressant usage. As a teenager under the age of 18, I was asked almost every year by a bishop during interviews whether or not I whacked off. I find that incredibly offensive and wrong for a stranger to ask a minor that question.

This is a church that teaches you can't know good without evil, sadness without happiness, but doesn't allow it's members to check out the other side of Mormonism, and instills the fear of lost temple rights, or loss of family or eternal salvation to keep members in line. It's no wonder they have gone to such great lengths to hide some of it's history and due to the internet, is now being forced to acknowledge with their own spin.

Look man, there is a lot of good with this church. It teaches good things, and in general, most members I know are good people. It provides structure and a social outlet for it's members. If it works for you, great. It didn't work for me. I could go on for days about specifics and why it doesn't. Keep an open mind, my friend.
It feels incredibly great to get a constructive response, thanks for posting :cheers:
I agree with a lot of what you said, especially in the part that the internet is pretty much an enemy to the church, although we probably believe the same thing for various different reasons. I'm trying to research more into what I can with everything, and there is a ton of stuff that is way sketchy, I know because here I find myself defending a lot of that stuff and even I sound crazy to myself sometimes. Call it growing up in the religion or being brainwashed or whatever, but I do my best to try and be objective about this stuff. Yeah the church does its best to keep people away from the anti-mormon stuff, because what they do say is true that you can't trust everything. However they seem to encourage not investigating over investigating, which is kind of strange because even our doctrine states that every bit of information will give us the advantage in the world to come, so what gives?
And I know its growth is a little miscued; while the church is stronger than ever, I could see the member lists in Ecuador and it wasn't ever surprising to see 800 registered members with only 150 going to church, but that stems from the culture, missionary problems, and overall dedication it takes to be "active." And I've heard the temple attendance problem before too, the huge temple in Gilbert they just built isn't being attended as much as they thought, and my roommate is from Gilbert so he knows this stuff.
And yeah the church is super demanding, and the reason most feel like they don't can't do enough is probably because either they aren't (not to sound rude), or really there's just too much to do and its hard to handle. Me, I just do what I can and don't think too hard about it, instead of focusing on everything I need to do at once, just focus on one thing at a time until you have it down, and then move on; you'll never get it down completely in this life, it's the effort (and desire) that counts. And yeah I understand your feeling offended about the whacking off questions, that's just a personal thing though and I feel fine whenever they ask me it.
And if you don't mind I'd just like to state my opinion on the sexual orientation stuff. I honestly have no clue whether people are born that way or whether they develop and become that way, but just because you're gay does not mean you cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom, heck screwing up multiple times in your life you can always get there. God takes everything into account, all your experiences, your circumstances, your weaknesses, and he will give you a fair judgement. That's for the after life though, and as for this life, that's just sort of the luck of the draw, some people are born gay, others are born somewhere where they never even hear of God, some people die mere moment after their birth. I'm not sure how exactly, but I know it'll all be rectified.
And thanks for your encouragement, I hope the way you are living your life helps you to achieve whatever happiness you can get. And I will keep an open mind my friend, enjoy Christmas Break with your kids!

[WayOfWade]

Why is the Mormon church so focused on beating off?

It has to do with a commandment known as the Law of Chastity. It's pretty much a commandment telling us to be chaste (sexually pure) both mentally and physically. Beating off can be a serious gateway to pornography addictions, fornication, adultery, all of which leads to family problems. The Bible says it's a pretty big deal to be chaste (Galatians 5:19-21, Matthew 5:27-28, 1 Corinthians 3:17)


That's very odd to focus on it. Is that built in to make sure that once one gets old enough they never beat off and always have enough horniness and sperm to have 8 kids with as many wives as they feel like?

People will be horny regardless, whether they beat off or not, I know from experience living with 18-22 year olds in closed quarters for a solid two years with almost no connection to the internet or basketball or anything. It's pretty much a precaution to protect families and to help us think clearly


On that notion how is it so terrible to get a nut by one's self but it's not terrible to 'redefine' God's intent of marriage by having multiple wives?
I'm sure I quite got this but I'll give it a go. I'm guessing you mean that it's weird how God says you can't *********e yet allows people to change what marriage is? Well God never really changed marriage, it's always been between a man and a woman (see Gen. 1), and whether or not multiple wives are involved depends entirely on God's preference. He had Abraham and multiple of his sons practice it, same with David and Solomon, but it's not something that's always in the best interest of the saints, so he calls it off when he needs to.


Isn't that the whole battle on Gays by Christians? Mockery of how God laid out the idea of marriage in the Bible?

Why don't Christians wage war on the Mormons for taking multiple wives and mocking God's idea of marriage?
Why don't Christians wage war on Mormons? Well many are because we refuse to support gay marriage. And Mormons never mocked God's idea of marriage, we actually do our best to follow it to the letter (with some crazies out there mind you)

[Nick Young]

It feels incredibly great to get a constructive response, thanks for posting :cheers:
I agree with a lot of what you said, especially in the part that the internet is pretty much an enemy to the church, although we probably believe the same thing for various different reasons. I'm trying to research more into what I can with everything, and there is a ton of stuff that is way sketchy, I know because here I find myself defending a lot of that stuff and even I sound crazy to myself sometimes. Call it growing up in the religion or being brainwashed or whatever, but I do my best to try and be objective about this stuff. Yeah the church does its best to keep people away from the anti-mormon stuff, because what they do say is true that you can't trust everything. However they seem to encourage not investigating over investigating, which is kind of strange because even our doctrine states that every bit of information will give us the advantage in the world to come, so what gives?
And I know its growth is a little miscued; while the church is stronger than ever, I could see the member lists in Ecuador and it wasn't ever surprising to see 800 registered members with only 150 going to church, but that stems from the culture, missionary problems, and overall dedication it takes to be "active." And I've heard the temple attendance problem before too, the huge temple in Gilbert they just built isn't being attended as much as they thought, and my roommate is from Gilbert so he knows this stuff.
And yeah the church is super demanding, and the reason most feel like they don't can't do enough is probably because either they aren't (not to sound rude), or really there's just too much to do and its hard to handle. Me, I just do what I can and don't think too hard about it, instead of focusing on everything I need to do at once, just focus on one thing at a time until you have it down, and then move on; you'll never get it down completely in this life, it's the effort (and desire) that counts. And yeah I understand your feeling offended about the whacking off questions, that's just a personal thing though and I feel fine whenever they ask me it.
And if you don't mind I'd just like to state my opinion on the sexual orientation stuff. I honestly have no clue whether people are born that way or whether they develop and become that way, but just because you're gay does not mean you cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom, heck screwing up multiple times in your life you can always get there. God takes everything into account, all your experiences, your circumstances, your weaknesses, and he will give you a fair judgement. That's for the after life though, and as for this life, that's just sort of the luck of the draw, some people are born gay, others are born somewhere where they never even hear of God, some people die mere moment after their birth. I'm not sure how exactly, but I know it'll all be rectified.
And thanks for your encouragement, I hope the way you are living your life helps you to achieve whatever happiness you can get. And I will keep an open mind my friend, enjoy Christmas Break with your kids!
Spoken like a true brainwashed cultist:cheers:

[WayOfWade]

Mormons are like those corporations that ship their companies overseas. Unamerican traitors.
Unamerican traitors? You do know that over 50% of registered Mormons don't even live in the states right? How can they be traitors?

[WayOfWade]

Spoken like a true brainwashed cultist:cheers:
Thanks for your opinion Nick! :cheers:

[Nick Young]

Unamerican traitors? You do know that over 50% of registered Mormons don't even live in the states right? How can they be traitors?
You know they only "convert" so you stop annoying them and leave them alone, right?

Nobody likes a nagging desperate Mormon. The rest of the world has figured out the best way to make you go away is to play along until you do :)

[Lebron23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S8rfBpxCcU

[WayOfWade]

You know they only "convert" so you stop annoying them and leave them alone, right?

Nobody likes a nagging desperate Mormon. The rest of the world has figured out the best way to make you go away is to play along until you do :)
Thanks for your opinion Nick! :cheers:

[KyrieTheFuture]

Yes and your point?

Judaism is a legitimate religion with actual prophets of God.
:confusedshrug:

[Nick Young]

Thanks for your opinion Nick! :cheers:
You're welcome. I'm glad I'm helping you see the light:cheers:

[Hawker]

This thread prompted me to do some more research about mormonism.

So some dude (Joseph Smith) found some gold plates in new york and claimed he saw God and basically wrote a religion from that. There were historical plates about Ancient America

And Brigham Young had 55 wives. I guess there's nothing really wrong with polygamy though. Can't fight science.

I knew mormons were weird as **** and pretty much all the same but goddamn...I dressed as a mormon for halloween back in college.

[Nick Young]

This thread prompted me to do some more research about mormonism.

So some dude (Joseph Smith) found some gold plates in new york and claimed he saw God and basically wrote a religion from that. There were historical plates about Ancient America

And Brigham Young had 55 wives. I guess there's nothing really wrong with polygamy though. Can't fight science.

I knew mormons were weird as **** and pretty much all the same but goddamn...I dressed as a mormon for halloween back in college.

Joseph Smith also lost the translations, and then translated 3 different versions of the book of mormon from the same magical golden alien stones XD Then when people wanted to see the stones for proof, he claimed he lost them.

ALSO-he "translated" the "stones" by sticking his face in to his top hat, claiming that the stones were at the bottom. And that no one else was allowed to see them. XD

The insane shit the Morons believe is even worse than what the Scientologists believe:lol


And their prophet of God is a Jan Matthys wannabe who didn't have the balls to die for his cause, and his own first followers turned on him for scamming and conning them. And he was a pedo who had sex with underage girls.:lol

And their second prophet Brigham Young was a racist murderous backstabbing terrorist responsible for the death of thousands of non-Moron Americans.

Mormons sure picked a winner.


Can't blame them though. The ones like WadeOfWade who have already shelled out thousands and thousands of dollars to go on their mission probably feel no choice but to double down on the insanity cult. Otherwise it means their whole life so far was dedicated in vain to a worthless cause.

There is still a way out Mormons. It is never too late to escape the cult.

Your life doesn't have to be one of repression and misery and shame and guilt.



Don't be a Moron.
Become an Ex-Mormon

[WayOfWade]

This thread prompted me to do some more research about mormonism.

So some dude (Joseph Smith) found some gold plates in new york and claimed he saw God and basically wrote a religion from that. There were historical plates about Ancient America

And Brigham Young had 55 wives. I guess there's nothing really wrong with polygamy though. Can't fight science.

I knew mormons were weird as **** and pretty much all the same but goddamn...I dressed as a mormon for halloween back in college.
You pretty much hit it right on the nose, good job

[WayOfWade]

Joseph Smith also lost the translations, and then translated 3 different versions of the book of mormon from the same magical golden alien stones XD Then when people wanted to see the stones for proof, he claimed he lost them.

ALSO-he "translated" the "stones" by sticking his face in to his top hat, claiming that the stones were at the bottom. And that no one else was allowed to see them. XD

The insane shit the Morons believe is even worse than what the Scientologists believe:lol


And their prophet of God is a Jan Matthys wannabe who didn't have the balls to die for his cause, and his own first followers turned on him for scamming and conning them. And he was a pedo who had sex with underage girls.:lol

And their second prophet Brigham Young was a racist murderous backstabbing terrorist responsible for the death of thousands of non-Moron Americans.

Mormons sure picked a winner.


Can't blame them though. The ones like WadeOfWade who have already shelled out thousands and thousands of dollars to go on their mission probably feel no choice but to double down on the insanity cult. Otherwise it means their whole life so far was dedicated in vain to a worthless cause.

There is still a way out Mormons. It is never too late to escape the cult.

Your life doesn't have to be one of repression and misery and shame and guilt.



Don't be a Moron.
Become an Ex-Mormon
How's your day been Nick?

[Nick Young]

You pretty much hit it right on the nose, good job
Is this your first time learning that Moronism is actually a cult or did you know before?


Do you actually believe that Joseph Smith has golden tablets with the Book of Mormon inscribed on them inside his hat, and that he came up with 3 conflicting translations from the same tablets?


Do you believe that?

Really?

You truly believe with all of your heart that Joseph Smith and his racist murderer homie Brigham Young are prophets sent from God?


If God likes Mormons so much, why are there so few of you? Why is it so difficult to convince people to join your cause and why are you and the other Morons so desperate to convert new ones?

Why did God give up on the Jews and Christians and Muslims after thousands of years and suddenly switch to Joseph Smith and the Morons as his go to guys? XD


Are Morons friends with Jehovah's Witnesses or are they your eternal rivals?

[WayOfWade]

Is this your first time learning that Moronism is actually a cult or did you know before?


Do you actually believe that Joseph Smith has golden tablets with the Book of Mormon inscribed on them inside his hat, and that he came up with 3 conflicting translations from the same tablets?


Do you believe that?

Really?

You truly believe with all of your heart that Joseph Smith and his racist murderer homie Brigham Young are prophets sent from God?


If God likes Mormons so much, why are there so few of you? Why is it so difficult to convince people to join your cause and why are you and the other Morons so desperate to convert new ones?

Why did God give up on the Jews and Christians and Muslims after thousands of years and suddenly switch to Joseph Smith and the Morons as his go to guys? XD


Are Morons friends with Jehovah's Witnesses or are they your eternal rivals?
Dude, calm down; it appears this is stressing you out a bit, just don't think too hard.
In a completely unrelated topic, my Jazz are are going to ruin Kobe's farewell in the last game of the season

[Nick Young]

Dude, calm down; it appears this is stressing you out a bit, just don't think too hard.
In a completely unrelated topic, my Jazz are are going to ruin Kobe's farewell in the last game of the season
Kobe's farewell tour isn't about winning.


Stop deflecting. The bullshit in your cult has been called out. If you don't feel comfortable in public addressing and acknowledging your insane cult teachings, that tells me all I need to know.



Moronism aka the cult of Joe the Pedo does not stand up to scrutiny.

[ROCSteady]

I've always considered Mormonism a cult.


OP shining some good insight and he seems like a well-intentioned person but not alleviating how uncomfortable it is to think of their followers.


Joseph Smith seems to have fooled a lot of people. How?

I'm still not getting why jerking off is so terrible that it needs to be pounded into the youths and strangers heads but it is fully ok to have 5-6-7-8 wives?

The psyche of Wife number 6 isn't worthy of protection but jacking off and discovering your body is terribly egregious?

How is it sexually pure to put your d!ck in 8 women just because all y'all go to temple?

[Nick Young]

I've always considered Mormonism a cult.


OP shining some good insight and he seems like a well-intentioned person but not alleviating how uncomfortable it is to think of their followers.


Joseph Smith seems to have fooled a lot of people. How?

I'm still not getting why jerking off is so terrible that it needs to be pounded into the youths and strangers heads but it is fully ok to have 5-6-7-8 wives?

The psyche of Wife number 6 isn't worthy of protection but jacking off and discovering your body is terribly egregious?

How is it sexually pure to put your d!ck in 8 women just because all y'all go to temple?
Mormonism is a cult just like the Jehovah's Witness cult.

These communities are only thriving because they teach their cult members to stay away from outsiders.

When people leave the cult influence for any amount of time, they usually quit the cult.


Forcing members to pay thousands to go on a "mission" to prove their "devotion" leads to most of them doubling down on the Moronism message past the age of 20.

The Moron church also teaches these people from a young age that anything written against Moronism is a lie, and a sign from the devil.

That's why WayofWade still believes this nonsense so firmly. He thinks myself and people who speak out against the cult of Moronism are temptations from the devil XD

It is sad, but at the same time, these Mormons and Jehovah's Witness cultists are doing it to themselves.


Hopefully the cult dies soon, but what can you do.

I just feel bad for the children who are raised in this nutcase environment to Mormon families and have little choice.

[WayOfWade]

I've always considered Mormonism a cult.


OP shining some good insight and he seems like a well-intentioned person but not alleviating how uncomfortable it is to think of their followers.


Joseph Smith seems to have fooled a lot of people. How?

I'm still not getting why jerking off is so terrible that it needs to be pounded into the youths and strangers heads but it is fully ok to have 5-6-7-8 wives?

The psyche of Wife number 6 isn't worthy of protection but jacking off and discovering your body is terribly egregious?

How is it sexually pure to put your d!ck in 8 women just because all y'all go to temple?
I get the feeling that either some trolling is going on or you're terribly ignorant.
That is a pretty stupid comparison about jerking off and multiple wives. Since you have eyes you should go back and see where I specifically posted that GOD CAN COMMAND POLYGAMY. And of course you don't see the harm in a little *********ion, it feels so good doesn't it? It has to do with keeping your mind clean and family intact; it seems harmless at first, but it can lead to many other problems such as I fidelity in marriage, addiction to pornography, etc... Am I saying it's impossible to jerk off and have a good life anyway? No, never have I said that, it's simply a recommendation from God, and according to Paul if you're into that crap you "won't inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21) I recommend you open your eyes and stop being so close-minded (and if you post anything about that Nick, do know that makes you a pretty big hipocrit).

[Giaodollo]

Jehovas, also crazy cult, but seriously, no shit, I have never met a more well behaved group than Jehovas.

[WayOfWade]

Kobe's farewell tour isn't about winning.


Stop deflecting. The bullshit in your cult has been called out. If you don't feel comfortable in public addressing and acknowledging your insane cult teachings, that tells me all I need to know.



Moronism aka the cult of Joe the Pedo does not stand up to scrutiny.
Alright Nick, all I was doing was trying to generate some decent conversation but you're making that quite difficult. And I have no problem stating my beliefs here as you have seen for 8 pages; my problem is the lack of somewhat considerate responses from you. I'll answer any other problems or questions you throw at me IF you do so in a somewhat cordial way. I know you're American and you can excercises your 1st amendment rights, so fire way
And you have called out zero bullsh*t, all you do is post the same "Moronism" "Joe the Pedo" you have since the beginning. I spoke on the racism wnd you refuses to acknowledge the points I have brought up. And why are you so angry if I am using my 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion?
Ether way, I actually have enjoyed posting in this thread, thanks for creating it!

[WayOfWade]

Jehovas, also crazy cult, but seriously, no shit, I have never met a more well behaved group than Jehovas.
Me too actually, some of the nicest people I've ever met (if they're not crazy). Just don't get into religion with them and they are fantastic people

[Giaodollo]

Me too actually, some of the nicest people I've ever met (if they're not crazy). Just don't get into religion with them and they are fantastic people

Yep, they are not nice, but super nice. Crazy, really. Like it would actually be exhausting for me to be that nice. Generally speaking that is. Mormons are the same but I haven't met a lot of mormons throughout my life, so I have a small sample size..

[Nick Young]

I get the feeling that either some trolling is going on or you're terribly ignorant.
That is a pretty stupid comparison about jerking off and multiple wives. Since you have eyes you should go back and see where I specifically posted that GOD CAN COMMAND POLYGAMY. And of course you don't see the harm in a little *********ion, it feels so good doesn't it? It has to do with keeping your mind clean and family intact; it seems harmless at first, but it can lead to many other problems such as I fidelity in marriage, addiction to pornography, etc... Am I saying it's impossible to jerk off and have a good life anyway? No, never have I said that, it's simply a recommendation from God, and according to Paul if you're into that crap you "won't inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21) I recommend you open your eyes and stop being so close-minded (and if you post anything about that Nick, do know that makes you a pretty big hipocrit).
RocSteady touched a nerve XD
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/59972712.jpg

[Nick Young]

Alright Nick, all I was doing was trying to generate some decent conversation but you're making that quite difficult. And I have no problem stating my beliefs here as you have seen for 8 pages; my problem is the lack of somewhat considerate responses from you. I'll answer any other problems or questions you throw at me IF you do so in a somewhat cordial way. I know you're American and you can excercises your 1st amendment rights, so fire way
And you have called out zero bullsh*t, all you do is post the same "Moronism" "Joe the Pedo" you have since the beginning. I spoke on the racism wnd you refuses to acknowledge the points I have brought up. And why are you so angry if I am using my 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion?
Ether way, I actually have enjoyed posting in this thread, thanks for creating it!
Because your "religion" is an immoral cult that represses and ruins the lives of every kid who grows up under it.

Your cult also glorifies a false version of history and teaches people to believe nut case things like the Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel.

[Nick Young]

Me too actually, some of the nicest people I've ever met (if they're not crazy). Just don't get into religion with them and they are fantastic people
Jehovah's witnesses are not nice to each other when outsiders aren't around.

They are brutally repressed by shame and guilt.



They put on a falsified front in public to try to draw in converts.


You should see the things they teach their other cult members in their "churches". It is similar to what the Mormons teach in Mormon "churches".

Source: I know a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses. I have a few friends who escaped. Jehovah's Witness and Mormon upbringings are brutally f*cked up.

[KyrieTheFuture]

All religions are ridiculous. Judaism/Christianity/Islam are all absurd.

[Nick Young]

The thing about Moronism though is that all of it happened recently enough that we know for sure exactly all the lies and bullshit Joseph Smith told and how him and nutcase Brigham Young grew their cult.


It hasn't had enough time to mythologize in history +happened in a time period where we recorded everything.


There are enough reports and contemporary accounts for us to know exactly what a sham artist charlatan Joseph Smith was.


Atleast followers of ancient religions have the excuse to say "It happened thousands of years ago, there's no proof Jesus DIDN'T say this shit bro".

Mormons don't have that excuse. They have nowhere to hide when you call out the bullshit their "prophets" and the first Morons did. It is recorded history. We all know the truth.

[ROCSteady]

I get the feeling that either some trolling is going on or you're terribly ignorant.
That is a pretty stupid comparison about jerking off and multiple wives. Since you have eyes you should go back and see where I specifically posted that GOD CAN COMMAND POLYGAMY. And of course you don't see the harm in a little *********ion, it feels so good doesn't it? It has to do with keeping your mind clean and family intact; it seems harmless at first, but it can lead to many other problems such as I fidelity in marriage, addiction to pornography, etc... Am I saying it's impossible to jerk off and have a good life anyway? No, never have I said that, it's simply a recommendation from God, and according to Paul if you're into that crap you "won't inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal. 5:19-21) I recommend you open your eyes and stop being so close-minded (and if you post anything about that Nick, do know that makes you a pretty big hipocrit).

No , it's really not a stupid comparison seeing how one is common for your religion and among all the sins in the human condition, that seems to be the one y'all are so fixated on. The way Christians are fixated on homosexuality. Both practices (mastur bates & Mr. 5 Wives) can be pretty harmful if you look at it with any rational mind. An outsider can objectively see that excess *********ion and/or marriage to many figures can be unhealthy.

God commanding polygamy anytime outside say, The Old Testament, where humanity didn't even have enough people to grow as a race is one thing. In this day and age, polygamy is a taboo idea (wonder why?) that conceptually negates anything you are trying to preach about righteousness. Nevermind the psychological effects being third wife on the pecking order will realistically bring to a woman. Even if she is a devout Mormon and claims she understands the process, relationships like that will mess a person up far more than *********ion and even pre marital sex.

I'm not close minded, I can be a critical thinker and know that the hormonal experimentation of young people is far more natural within society's order than it is to arrogantly covet 5 wives or whatever. At the end of the day, desiring many wives is really only about ego or thinking your seed is so valuable that is must be sown as often as possible which is another form of ego. Not exactly holy feeling life decisions to me.

But your argument about *********ion being such a huge no no in Mormon culture is fine, I get what you're saying. People can get addicted to whacking off, pornography on an unhealthy level.

I find it laugh-worthy and ludicrous that you consider *********ion such a possible threat to a healthy marriage but then fall back on your 'prophet' and the teachings to take many wives like that is sacred.

Sure, bud, look around smell the roses. Do it with an 'open mind' like you said and for a moment, forget the indoctrination of what you've been told is right/ wrong or acceptable.

You really think it's good for kids to see their dad with a lot of wives? DO you think it's good for women to covet their single husband's attention when there are more of them wanting the same thing under the GUISE of a sanctimonious union? What just because some salary collectors conducted a ceremony in a temple, that's makes Marriage number 4 to wife number 4 holy in the eyes of God. Gimmie a break

Falling back on God to justify these patterns and traditions in your community just seems like you don't have the clarity you claim your religion brings. I'm not a Christian or anything but I can see why they follow the entity they do with such fervor. The head figures of Mormonism are generally regarded in not a favorable light. That's to people who have no reason to dislike or hate them, historians and religious studies people who are as objective and uninvolved as a human can get.

Seeing all the holes through what Joseph Smith claims is like shooting fish in a barrel.


And why the fck is holy underwear something to aspire to? How can you possibly explain that to a non believer and make it sound reasonable? There are non believers of all religions that can at least see the value in the beliefs, customs and traditions. If a religion is legit, it can at least be defended without being mocked and laughed at like some are doing in this thread.

Explain holy underwear without sounding ridiculous

[Fallguy20]

Explain holy underwear without sounding ridiculous

Be honest, do you make fun of Jewish people for wearing "funny little hats"?

Jus sayin

[Fallguy20]

I know a few Mormons, real nice people. It always feels like they get the short end of the stick when people discuss their religion, especially on the internet.

im just gonna leave this right here. (http://commfaculty.fullerton.edu/rgass/fallacy3211.htm)

[Nick Young]

Be honest, do you make fun of Jewish people for wearing "funny little hats"?

Jus sayin
The funny little hats are a sign of respect, covering their heads to respect God.

funny, sure.


Mormon's magic underwear has the power to stop bullets. That is what Mormons believe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Garment.jpg



According to the LDS Church, the temple garments serve a number of purposes. First, the garment provides the member "a constant reminder" of the covenants they made in the temple. Second, the garment "when properly worn ... provides protection against temptation and evil". Wearing the garment is also "an outward expression of an inward commitment" to follow Jesus Christ.[16] General authority Carlos E. Asay adds that the garment "strengthens the wearer to resist temptation, fend off evil influences, and stand firmly for the right."[2]

The nature of the protection believed to be afforded by temple garments is ambiguous and varies between adherents.[17] Researchers who interviewed a sample of Latter-day Saints who wear the temple garment reported that virtually all wearers expressed a belief that wearing the garment provided "spiritual protection" and encouraged them to keep their covenants.[17] Some of those interviewed "asserted that the garment also provided physical protection, while others seemed less certain of any physical aspect to protection."[17] In Mormon folklore, tales are told of Latter-day Saints who credit their temple garments with helping them survive car wrecks, fires, and natural disasters.[5]


It's a brainwash tool. Forcing people to wear the uniform 24/7 every day keeps the cultists in line.

[ROCSteady]

Be honest, do you make fun of Jewish people for wearing "funny little hats"?

Jus sayin

No because I understand exactly what they represent and it makes total sense.

Can't say the same about the acquired holy drawws

[Fallguy20]

The LDS garments are a sign of respect, covering their bodies to respect God.


Interesting how you can make fun of the one but not the other.

I posted the logical fallacies because you are a tool and don't know how to piece together a decent argument. You should read. All of you.

:sleeping

[ROCSteady]

I know a few Mormons, real nice people. It always feels like they get the short end of the stick when people discuss their religion, especially on the internet.

im just gonna leave this right here. (http://commfaculty.fullerton.edu/rgass/fallacy3211.htm)


Prolly cuz their beliefs sound the wackest/ most made up. Having your prophet be a guy from not that long ago will do that. Especially when you hear the story of what happened and how it started


Even a lot of non believers in the big 3 Abrahamic can respect the mentality and some may secretly wish to have the "Faith" or whatever secret ingredient the followers of Christianity, Judaism, Islam have despite their inherent doubt and needing a burden of proof to believe.

Mormon culture just rubs many types of people the wrong way, myself included. Never had love for the group as a whole. Always placed them on the Scientology scale of wackness and brainwashedness

[Nick Young]

Interesting how you can make fun of the one but not the other.

I posted the logical fallacies because you are a tool and don't know how to piece together a decent argument. You should read. All of you.

:sleeping
The only logical fallacy here is you comparing a cult like Moronism to a religion like Judaism.:lol

[Fallguy20]

Prolly cuz their beliefs sound the wackest/ most made up. Having your prophet be a guy from not that long ago will do that. Especially when you hear the story of what happened and how it started


Even a lot of non believers in the big 3 Abrahamic can respect the mentality and some may secretly wish to have the "Faith" or whatever secret ingredient the followers of Christianity, Judaism, Islam have despite their inherent doubt and needing a burden of proof to believe.

Mormon culture just rubs many types of people the wrong way, myself included. Never had love for the group as a whole. Always placed them on the Scientology scale of wackness and brainwashedness


Understandable. It seems pretty far out, that is for sure. I guess i've had a good experience with mormons in general (always find some nutters, of course) and don't feel comfortable hating on their religion when so many of them credit their faith as the cornerstone to their character. They just seem happy, so I let em be.

[Nick Young]

Prolly cuz their beliefs sound the wackest/ most made up. Having your prophet be a guy from not that long ago will do that. Especially when you hear the story of what happened and how it started


Even a lot of non believers in the big 3 Abrahamic can respect the mentality and some may secretly wish to have the "Faith" or whatever secret ingredient the followers of Christianity, Judaism, Islam have despite their inherent doubt and needing a burden of proof to believe.

Mormon culture just rubs many types of people the wrong way, myself included. Never had love for the group as a whole. Always placed them on the Scientology scale of wackness and brainwashedness
They are at the same level. Jehovah's Witness's too.

Remember, these guys all put on the outward face of constant happiness in order to try to convert more in to the cult.


In reality, most of them are sexually repressed and miserable.

"Oh those mormons I meet are always so polite and they always seem so happy. Maybe there is something to that Mormonism after all, I should convert."

That's their hope. Same with Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Fallguy20]

The only logical fallacy here is you comparing a cult like Moronism to a religion like Judaism.:lol

False. How is their religious garb any different?

You strawman constantly, ad hominem, appeal to extremes, tautology is your second language, and your equivocation is broken.

This isn't about their religion at the moment. This is debate class 101. You made a bad argument, deal with it.


Lastly, I remember when you first came to the forum. You were a troll then, and you are a troll now. If you want to skype and talk about it then we will do it! But I got a feeling you are just a keyboard warrior. PM me for details, thanks

[Nick Young]

False. How is their religious garb any different?

You strawman constantly, ad hominem, appeal to extremes, tautology is your second language, and your equivocation is broken.

This isn't about their religion at the moment. This is debate class 101. You made a bad argument, deal with it.


Lastly, I remember when you first came to the forum. You were a troll then, and you are a troll now. If you want to skype and talk about it then we will do it! But I got a feeling you are just a keyboard warrior. PM me for details, thanks
Because their religious garb has supernatural powers.

The yamucha is just traditional.

Your copy-pasting from logical fallacy is not enough to defend the cult of Moronism.

Their teachings are dangerous and abusive.

Every day, more and more children are born and being raised under their oppressive cultish doctrine.

[Fallguy20]

:cheers:

That is what I thought.

Bye now, it was fun.

[Nick Young]

:cheers:

That is what I thought.

Bye now, it was fun.
Peace out Mormon apologist :cheers:

[Nick Young]

Good website. Hopefully WayofWade can get some help one day


http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Weird-things-about-Mormons-and-Mormonsim-as-Experienced-by-Mormons
:cheers:

[ROCSteady]

Mormonism is a cult just like the Jehovah's Witness cult.

These communities are only thriving because they teach their cult members to stay away from outsiders.

When people leave the cult influence for any amount of time, they usually quit the cult.


Forcing members to pay thousands to go on a "mission" to prove their "devotion" leads to most of them doubling down on the Moronism message past the age of 20.

The Moron church also teaches these people from a young age that anything written against Moronism is a lie, and a sign from the devil.

That's why WayofWade still believes this nonsense so firmly. He thinks myself and people who speak out against the cult of Moronism are temptations from the devil XD

It is sad, but at the same time, these Mormons and Jehovah's Witness cultists are doing it to themselves.


Hopefully the cult dies soon, but what can you do.

I just feel bad for the children who are raised in this nutcase environment to Mormon families and have little choice.

Yea I remember a classmate at UMD gettin all mad at me because one day we were discussing religion mainly the big 3 but somehow Mormonism came up.

He CAUGHT FEELINGS when I said I believed Mormonism to be a cult and not a branch of Christianity. He insisted it was just another form of Christianity and I had to tell bro, nah dawg look into it deeper. Their shit is wacky to degrees no denomination of Christianity can even claim in their wackness

[Nick Young]

They can't handle the truth and usually have a mini-meltdown if you call out the cultishness of their beliefs to their face.

They put on the smile and laugh facade for awhile and go in to "aw shucks" mode but if you call them out on the ridiculousness of Moronism their programming can't handle it and they melt down.


Same with Jehovah's Witnesses.

[Giaodollo]

the one Mormon poster on ish is a very nice guy :applause:
Yeah, you are right, Magnax is an asshole.

[ROCSteady]

the one Mormon poster on ish is a very nice guy :applause:


He does seem like a very pleasant individual but I still ain't buyin what they sellin.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Why do people think they can pass judgment on a believer based on them being "a nice guy?" What if that mean stern looking orthodox Jewish man with an attitude was a straight shooter who just had the knowledge to save the world and a resume of many charitable works?

There have been plenty of "nice" guys of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds who have had a deceitful nature or been of the sucker type.

Honesty, integrity, surety of guidance, sincerity, manliness, strength of faith, courage, knowledge, wisdom, actions are weighed on God's scale as well.

[Nick Young]

Nice guys finish last, J$ dropping knowledge bombs.

[KNOW1EDGE]

I believe in the book of Mormon and I grew up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Most of you are sadly misinformed/misguided about the LDS faith.

But it doesn't bother me, more power to you.

[Nick Young]

I believe in the book of Mormon and I grew up as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
LOL

[ROCSteady]

Why do people think they can pass judgment on a believer based on them being "a nice guy?" What if that mean stern looking orthodox Jewish man with an attitude was a straight shooter who just had the knowledge to save the world and a resume of many charitable works?

There have been plenty of "nice" guys of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds who have had a deceitful nature or been of the sucker type.

Honesty, integrity, surety of guidance, sincerity, manliness, strength of faith, courage, knowledge, wisdom, actions are weighed on God's scale as well.

J$ puttin us punks in place with that Reality Dose.

[MMKM]

Why do people think they can pass judgment on a believer based on them being "a nice guy?" What if that mean stern looking orthodox Jewish man with an attitude was a straight shooter who just had the knowledge to save the world and a resume of many charitable works?

There have been plenty of "nice" guys of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds who have had a deceitful nature or been of the sucker type.

Honesty, integrity, surety of guidance, sincerity, manliness, strength of faith, courage, knowledge, wisdom, actions are weighed on God's scale as well.

PLEASE tell us more, about the scale....

http://www.mrmediatraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Woman-Begging.jpg

[WayOfWade]

God commanding polygamy anytime outside say, The Old Testament, where humanity didn't even have enough people to grow as a race is one thing. In this day and age, polygamy is a taboo idea (wonder why?) that conceptually negates anything you are trying to preach about righteousness. Nevermind the psychological effects being third wife on the pecking order will realistically bring to a woman. Even if she is a devout Mormon and claims she understands the process, relationships like that will mess a person up far more than *********ion and even pre marital sex.

LOL, when there weren't even enough people to reproduce? I'm pretty sure when King David was given his wives by God, it wasn't just because there weren't enough Jews around (2 Samuel 12:7). And about polygamy, I personally don't like it, for multiple reasons you just wrote. However if God commands it, who are we to say no?


I'm not close minded, I can be a critical thinker and know that the hormonal experimentation of young people is far more natural within society's order than it is to arrogantly covet 5 wives or whatever. At the end of the day, desiring many wives is really only about ego or thinking your seed is so valuable that is must be sown as often as possible which is another form of ego. Not exactly holy feeling life decisions to me.
I probably shouldn't have called you close minded, it's fine to challenge ideas and to think other ways, that way you can actually choose for yourself what you want to do. And I get your feelings towards polygamy, no hard feelings there.


But your argument about *********ion being such a huge no no in Mormon culture is fine, I get what you're saying. People can get addicted to whacking off, pornography on an unhealthy level.

I find it laugh-worthy and ludicrous that you consider *********ion such a possible threat to a healthy marriage but then fall back on your 'prophet' and the teachings to take many wives like that is sacred.
Great comment, but mainly it has to do with just marriage. Marriage is sacred whereas jacking off isn't


Sure, bud, look around smell the roses. Do it with an 'open mind' like you said and for a moment, forget the indoctrination of what you've been told is right/ wrong or acceptable.

You really think it's good for kids to see their dad with a lot of wives? DO you think it's good for women to covet their single husband's attention when there are more of them wanting the same thing under the GUISE of a sanctimonious union? What just because some salary collectors conducted a ceremony in a temple, that's makes Marriage number 4 to wife number 4 holy in the eyes of God. Gimmie a break
I do forget the indoctrination (or do I?), and I do my best to analyze everything, no matter how crazy it might seem, although I still have a lot of research to do. Do I think it's good for kids to see their dads with multiple women? Probably not, that's not a good image to give your kids in this day and age when that's not acceptable. However my opinion isn't the one that's important, it's God's opinion that's important. And that marriage is acceptable to God if God accepts it, right now he absolutely won't, those who practice polygamy now are sinning big time.


Falling back on God to justify these patterns and traditions in your community just seems like you don't have the clarity you claim your religion brings. I'm not a Christian or anything but I can see why they follow the entity they do with such fervor. The head figures of Mormonism are generally regarded in not a favorable light. That's to people who have no reason to dislike or hate them, historians and religious studies people who are as objective and uninvolved as a human can get.
Falling back on God? That seems as clear as any argument you could pose religiously. But if you're not religious then it's easier to get where you're coming from. And there are plenty of people who shed kinder light on the leaders, but in today's day and age people just prefer the dirt and the bad stuff they can get their hands on.


Seeing all the holes through what Joseph Smith claims is like shooting fish in a barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-MpXCMcIs
Lol, but yeah there are a lot of "holes" depending on who you ask, but everything is explainable depending on the person you talk to and who's speaking.

[WayOfWade]

And why the fck is holy underwear something to aspire to? How can you possibly explain that to a non believer and make it sound reasonable? There are non believers of all religions that can at least see the value in the beliefs, customs and traditions. If a religion is legit, it can at least be defended without being mocked and laughed at like some are doing in this thread.

Explain holy underwear without sounding ridiculous

I'll just try to put this as short and simple as I can. They are garments that members receive after going through the temple and making special covenants (promises) with God. The purpose they have is to remind the wearer of the promises they've made and to provide strength against temptations. While many religions wear special attire in public (such as the yamica, the tourbons the Muslims have, the gear Catholic priests rock), these are worn in private and under the clothes. They're also pretty dang comfortable, trust me I know. Anyone who says that they are "magic underwear" are misguided, there is no such thing, they are simply clothes that help the wearer maintain a closer relationship to God. In case that isn't clear enough, here's a cool video explaining them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkTz_NQqKA8

[WayOfWade]

Yea I remember a classmate at UMD gettin all mad at me because one day we were discussing religion mainly the big 3 but somehow Mormonism came up.

He CAUGHT FEELINGS when I said I believed Mormonism to be a cult and not a branch of Christianity. He insisted it was just another form of Christianity and I had to tell bro, nah dawg look into it deeper. Their shit is wacky to degrees no denomination of Christianity can even claim in their wackness
You can have you opinion, but doesn't being Christian mean you believe in Christ? The name of the church in actuality is "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter day Saints," Joseph Smith was visited by Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. Yeah there's a lot of wacky stuff, but almost all of it goes back to the Bible and to Jesus, even garments considering the fact that Jehovah (aka Jesus) kind of ordered them in Exodus 28

[WayOfWade]

Why do people think they can pass judgment on a believer based on them being "a nice guy?" What if that mean stern looking orthodox Jewish man with an attitude was a straight shooter who just had the knowledge to save the world and a resume of many charitable works?

There have been plenty of "nice" guys of all shapes and sizes and backgrounds who have had a deceitful nature or been of the sucker type.

Honesty, integrity, surety of guidance, sincerity, manliness, strength of faith, courage, knowledge, wisdom, actions are weighed on God's scale as well.
:applause:

[WayOfWade]

They can't handle the truth and usually have a mini-meltdown if you call out the cultishness of their beliefs to their face.

They put on the smile and laugh facade for awhile and go in to "aw shucks" mode but if you call them out on the ridiculousness of Moronism their programming can't handle it and they melt down.


Same with Jehovah's Witnesses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FnO3igOkOk

[Nick Young]

You can have you opinion, but doesn't being Christian mean you believe in Christ? The name of the church in actuality is "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter day Saints," Joseph Smith was visited by Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. Yeah there's a lot of wacky stuff, but almost all of it goes back to the Bible and to Jesus, even garments considering the fact that Jehovah (aka Jesus) kind of ordered them in Exodus 28
:kobe:

[WayOfWade]

Good website. Hopefully WayofWade can get some help one day


http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Weird-things-about-Mormons-and-Mormonsim-as-Experienced-by-Mormons
:cheers:
Pretty good website if you actually know what you're talking about, however this post wasn't hate-filled, so here we go...


1) The underwear. Magical drawers that provide an all-hazard barrier and remind the faithful not to have sexual relations with anyone other than one's spouse. They come in a variety of lengths, materials, and styles...yes, you can still get the "union suit version" with the flap in back.
They're more than that as I've posted, and the cotton ones are the best


2) Constant turmoil over what is "allowed" and what is not. etc. ...

For example, the "approved" list of Sabbath day activities varies widely. Can you watch TV? Only the BYU channel? How about the news? Should your kids be playing outside? In shorts??? Can you have a family picnic at the lake? No approved list from SLC means everyone "rolls their own"...and therefore also comdemns others for Sabbath Day breakage.
Yeah, this one's sort of up to you. Isn't that what you want? And yeah many Mormons are pretty hypocritical about this stuff, they need to get over it


4) Claims of being the "restored" gospel [all other religions are false] founded on ancient (but lost) "truths" on one hand....but completely amendable to changing doctrines depending on the prevailing political winds (e.g. polygamy, blacks and priesthood, etc) on the other.
Here is one of our articles of faith "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying honoring, and sustaining the law." So we're evil for wanting to obey the law of the land? The Restored Gospel stuff is pretty long, perhaps another day.


7) Claim that the Bible is corrupt, but unable to identify which chapters and verses are the corrupt ones.

Have to admit, I lol'd pretty hard with this one. How about all those missing scriptures? Jude mentions a prophecy by Enoch (Jude 1:14) that we've never seen, Paul mentions multiple epistles we don't have (1 Cor. 5:9, Eph. 3:3, Col 4:16), Nathan the Prophet had his own book (1 Chr. 29:29), there's almost too many to list. As for the damaged scriptures, it really isn't too hard to find them, seeing that scriptures in Samuel says God sends evil spirits, there's contradictions in the way Judas dies as well as Paul's vision, Jesus contradicts himself on multiple occasions (one being saying "Judge Not" in Matthew 7, but tell us to judge righteously in John 7). So either Jesus was wrong, or the translators messed up, one or the other.


8) Have billions of dollars in assets and cash, but want members to clean the bathrooms in the church buildings
So doing service is all of a sudden a bad thing?

There are lots of other points but some have already been discussed, some are kind of dumb (argues against marriage, like wtf), or require extremely long explanations. I'll see you tomorrow

[WayOfWade]

:kobe:
:banana:

[warriorfan]

To be honest the multiple wives thing sounds awesome.

[MMKM]

SMH @ this whole thread for bashing Mormons for their weird beliefs and simultaneously praising someone else for explaining the man in the sky's scale for being a good person, item by item. One is crazy, the other is "spitting knowledge."

Ahhh..... Humans can be so silly.

[Nick Young]

I don't think you know a thing about Mormonism if you equate it as similar to Christianity, Islam or Judaism.


In those three religions, even if you don't believe in God and read all the stories and teachings as metaphor and allegory, you get something positive out of it.


Mormonism is literally a gobbledy gook sci fi story that we know was fabricated by a con man Charlatan pedo named Joseph Smith who wanted an excuse to f*ck his friends wives.


Following Mormon doctrine does not lead to a positive life. it leads to a life of sexual repression and misery.


Cults do not benefit society. The wisdom found in Judaism, Christianity and Islam does-even if you have no belief in God and read the teachings as metaphor and allegory only.

[MMKM]

I don't think you know a thing about Mormonism if you equate it as similar to Christianity, Islam or Judaism.


In those three religions, even if you don't believe in God and read all the stories and teachings as metaphor and allegory, you get something positive out of it.


Mormonism is literally a gobbledy gook sci fi story that we know was fabricated by a con man Charlatan pedo named Joseph Smith who wanted an excuse to f*ck his friends wives.


Following Mormon doctrine does not lead to a positive life. it leads to a life of sexual repression and misery.


Cults do not benefit society. The wisdom found in Judaism, Christianity and Islam does-even if you have no belief in God and read the teachings as metaphor and allegory only.

....in contrast to those other, scientifically proven religions.

Rationalize it however you want. It's pretty weird that any group who believes in a big man in the sky who acts as the ultimate judge and jury would turn around and call another belief system crazy. I guess there are "tiers of crazy" now.....

[Nick Young]

....in contrast to those other, scientifically proven religions.

Rationalize it however you want. It's pretty weird that any group who believes in a big man in the sky who acts as the ultimate judge and jury would turn around and call another belief system crazy. I guess there are "tiers of crazy" now.....
That's not what Christians, Muslims or Jews believe.

Congratulations, you've revealed your ignorance:cheers:

[MMKM]

That's not what Christians, Muslims or Jews believe.

Congratulations, you've revealed your ignorance:cheers:

You're really gonna pretend that god's judgement isn't a reinforcer for the laws we create for civilization to control the masses?

Be good and God will give you a cookie.
Be bad and the devil will poke you with a sharp stick.

Jesus it's the most transparent stick and the ****in carrot routine ever. Go ahead and pretend like some religions are rational and some are irrational if it helps you sleep better, it's all a wizard of Oz routine. But I'm the one who's ignorant:oldlol:

[Nick Young]

You're really gonna pretend that god's judgement isn't a reinforcer for the laws we create for civilization to control the masses?

Be good and God will give you a cookie.
Be bad and the devil will poke you with a sharp stick.

Jesus it's the most transparent stick and the ****in carrot routine ever. Go ahead and pretend like some religions are rational and some are irrational if it helps you sleep better, it's all a wizard of Oz routine. But I'm the one who's ignorant:oldlol:
What about civilizations not run by Abrahamic religions and tha Abrahamic concept of God?:confusedshrug:




Did you actually read the New Testament? What does Jesus do in there that you have a problem with? Jesus in the New Testament is just a cool bro who helps people out and teaches allegorical lessons and drops wisdom bombs.

I don't believe in him as a prophet of God, but based only on what's attributed to him in the New Testament, he's a positive and pleasant guy.

What does Jesus say in the New Testament that makes you think he's just a "stick and carrot" routine.

He basically says the same shit as Plato says in the Republic. Do you think Plato encourages a "stick and carrot" routine too?

Did Buddha?


I don't think you've read the New or Old Testament. You don't seem to know anything that's actually written in those two books.You don't understand spirituality and obviously have repressed your own to the extant that you are completely denying spirituality even exists.

You do not understand this subject.

[ROCSteady]

You can have you opinion, but doesn't being Christian mean you believe in Christ? The name of the church in actuality is "The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter day Saints," Joseph Smith was visited by Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon testifies of Jesus Christ. Yeah there's a lot of wacky stuff, but almost all of it goes back to the Bible and to Jesus, even garments considering the fact that Jehovah (aka Jesus) kind of ordered them in Exodus 28

Nah man Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, a form of God, the ultimate prophet of God. He is numero uno being that ever walked the Earth for Christians.


Y'all hold up a dude from the 1800s as that person.

[MMKM]

What about civilizations not run by Abrahamic religions and tha Abrahamic concept of God?:confusedshrug:




Did you actually read the New Testament? What does Jesus do in there that you have a problem with? Jesus in the New Testament is just a cool bro who helps people out and teaches allegorical lessons and drops wisdom bombs.

I don't believe in him as a prophet of God, but based only on what's attributed to him in the New Testament, he's a positive and pleasant guy.

What does Jesus say in the New Testament that makes you think he's just a "stick and carrot" routine.

He basically says the same shit as Plato says in the Republic. Do you think Plato encourages a "stick and carrot" routine too?

Did Buddha?


I don't think you've read the New or Old Testament. You don't seem to know anything that's actually written in those two books.You don't understand spirituality and obviously have repressed your own to the extant that you are completely denying spirituality even exists.

You do not understand this subject.

For stick and carrot yes to Jesus for sure. This is a circus side show. If you believe in an omnipotent being that created all things and serves judgement in your afterlife, whichever religion that may be, you have no business slamming someone else's. It's like one person in the nut house saying the other people are crazy. Think what you want, I think some of the knowledge "droppers" on this thread are sanctimonious AF, and you are all clueless little sheepies, just belonging to different flocks.

I liked it better when we were both bashing Muslims.

[Nick Young]

For stick and carrot yes to all of the above. This is a circus side show. If you believe in an omnipotent being that created all things and serves judgement in your afterlife, whichever religion that may be, you have no business slamming someone else's. It's like one person in the nut house saying the other people are crazy. Think what you want, I think some of the knowledge "droppers" on this thread are sanctimonious AF, and you are all clueless little sheepies, just belonging to different herds.

I liked it better when we were both bashing Muslims.


You fail to understand that many people read the Bible and Torah as allegorical teachings. God is not literally a man floating in the sky watching over everything. It's an abstract symbolic allegorical concept.



You didn't read the Old Testament. You didn't read the New Testament. You didn't read the Book of Mormon. You have no idea what is inside these books you never even read and you still feel qualified to speak about them like an expert:facepalm

[ROCSteady]

I'll just try to put this as short and simple as I can. They are garments that members receive after going through the temple and making special covenants (promises) with God. The purpose they have is to remind the wearer of the promises they've made and to provide strength against temptations. While many religions wear special attire in public (such as the yamica, the tourbons the Muslims have, the gear Catholic priests rock), these are worn in private and under the clothes. They're also pretty dang comfortable, trust me I know. Anyone who says that they are "magic underwear" are misguided, there is no such thing, they are simply clothes that help the wearer maintain a closer relationship to God. In case that isn't clear enough, here's a cool video explaining them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkTz_NQqKA8

So it's like an almost full body cloth chastity belt?

Wouldn't Hanes long johns without the pee hole have sufficed for that purpose?

Are these things sewn in the temple or bought retail?

Isn't white a bad idea?

Do you wear them after Labor Day?

[MMKM]

You fail to understand that many people read the Bible and Torah as allegorical teachings. God is not literally a man floating in the sky watching over everything. It's an abstract symbolic allegorical concept.



You didn't read the Old Testament. You didn't read the New Testament. You didn't read the Book of Mormon. You have no idea what is inside these books you never even read and you still feel qualified to speak about them like an expert:facepalm

Christians and Jews don't treat the Bible or Old Testament simply as an allegory any more than a Mormon treats their Book as an allegory. And yes, I have read a decent amount of both Testaments, but I haven't read all of it. Do I need to attend the church of Scientology and read their whole manual to know its complete nonsense? I have actually read quite a bit of the bible, but once you decide something is a total pie in the sky fairy tale, you tend to lose interest.

[Nick Young]

Christians and Jews don't treat the Bible or Old Testament simply as an allegory any more than a Mormon treats their Book as an allegory.
Wrong. many do. You are again showing your ignorance.


And yes, I have read a decent amount of both Testaments, but I haven't read all of it.

Really? What teachings and actions of Jesus do you have a problem with? Be specific.


Do I need to attend the church of Scientology and read their whole manual to know its complete nonsense? I have actually read quite a bit of the bible, but once you decide something is a total pie in the sky fairy tale, you tend to lose interest.

So you've never read a work of fiction before?:facepalm

What you're doing right now is the same as some moron saying "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT IS A SHITTY BOOK. NO ONE WOULD GET AWAY WITH A CRIME LIKE THAT. BAD WRITING. BAD CHARACTERS, IT'S ALL FAKE ANYWAYS" even though you never actually read Crime and Punishment.

[MMKM]

Wrong. many do.You are again showing your ignorance.



Really? What teachings and actions of Jesus do you have a problem with? Be specific.



So you've never read a work of fiction before?:facepalm

What you're doing right now is the same as some moron saying "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT IS A SHITTY BOOK. NO ONE WOULD GET AWAY WITH A CRIME LIKE THAT. BAD WRITING. BAD CHARACTERS, IT'S ALL FAKE ANYWAYS" even though you never actually read Crime and Punishment.

This is the dumbest argument I think I've ever heard someone make. Essentially you are saying that the difference between Mormons and Christians/Jews is that Mormons actually believe the story behind their religion and Christians/Jews don't. This argument allows Christians and Jews to have their cake and eat it too. They believe their religion, but when they get called out on its absurdity, they don't actually believe their religion. Way to have it both ways.

You can throw out as many red herrings about crime and punishment, Plato or anything else you feel like but the bottom line is this:

All the religions you have named are based on the belief in one or more supreme beings that conveniently exist in another dimension. As if that sh!t ain't wack enough, many followers of these religions feel the need to talk about how crazy
Mormonism is. If this isn't the ultimate example of the pious pot calling the kettle black I've never seen it.

Like so much of the human race, sanctimonious, hypocritical and unable to see someone else's forest through the thicket of their own trees.

[Nick Young]

This is the dumbest argument I think I've ever heard someone make. Essentially you are saying that the difference between Mormons and Christians/Jews is that Mormons actually believe the story behind their religion and Christians/Jews don't. This argument allows Christians and Jews to have their cake and eat it too. They believe their religion, but when they get called out on its absurdity, they don't actually believe their religion. Way to have it both ways.

You can throw out as many red herrings about crime and punishment, Plato or anything else you feel like but the bottom line is this:

All the religions you have named are based on the belief in one or more supreme beings that conveniently exist in another dimension. As if that sh!t ain't wack enough, many followers of these religions feel the need to talk about how crazy
Mormonism is. If this isn't the ultimate example of the pious pot calling the kettle black I've never seen it.

Like so much of the human race, sanctimonious, hypocritical and unable to see someone else's forest through the thicket of their own trees.
God is an allegory for the force that created the universe. The point is we have no ability to comprehend just exactly what God is.


Christians don't believe that God is a giant man with a white beard who micromanages everything that happens.

Guess what, science still hasn't explained what created the universe, or why the universe was created. Hmm.

Do you know more than humanity's greatest scientists and philosophers?




What teachings and actions of Jesus do you have a problem with? Be specific.

[MMKM]

God is an allegory for the force that created the universe. The point is we have no ability to comprehend just exactly what God is.


Christians don't believe that God is a giant man with a white beard who micromanages everything that happens.

Guess what, science still hasn't explained what created the universe, or why the universe was created. Hmm.

Do you know more than humanity's greatest scientists and philosophers?




What teachings and actions of Jesus do you have a problem with? Be specific.

In Christianity, God is a man. That's why the words He, Him, His etc are used to reference God about 10,000 times throughout the bible. God isn't an "it." And again he is more than an allegory for forces that created the universe. Christians will tell you they talk to God, and he talks back. Ask any Christian, do you believe God exists they will say yes. They will also say that Jesus is literally, not figuratively, the son of God. They won't say, "well...ya know...I kind of believe in The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit but just as an allegory." You are simply making sh!t up to pretend otherwise.

Done with this thread. In closing, this is typical animal kingdom behavior to single out a "runt of the litter" and kill it for the sake of blood lust. Continue following all of your own crazy religions while picking apart a smaller one, while warning others from a pulpit that a Mormon described as "nice" on this thread be "faking it," and then celebrate each other's enlightenment with a big circle jerk of "knowledge bombs." This thread is a joke. Out.

[Nick Young]

In Christianity, God is a man. That's why the words He, Him, His etc are used to reference God about 10,000 times throughout the bible. God isn't an "it." And again he is more than an allegory for forces that created the universe. Christians will tell you they talk to God, and he talks back. Ask any Christian, do you believe God exists they will say yes. They will also say that Jesus is literally, not figuratively, the son of God. They won't say, "well...ya know...I kind of believe in The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit but just as an allegory." You are simply making sh!t up to pretend otherwise.

Done with this thread. In closing, this is typical animal kingdom behavior to single out a "runt of the litter" and kill it for the sake of blood lust. Continue following all of your own crazy religions while picking apart a smaller one, while warning others from a pulpit that a Mormon described as "nice" on this thread be "faking it," and then celebrate each other's enlightenment with a big circle jerk of "knowledge bombs." This thread is a joke. Out.
No he isn't.

You didn't even read the the old or new testament. You clearly have no understanding of either of these religions.

Why are you speaking with authority about stories you've never read and have no basic understanding of?:confusedshrug:


Science still hasn't explained what created the universe, or why the universe was created. Do you know why?:confusedshrug:


What teachings and actions of Jesus do you have a problem with? Be specific.

[WayOfWade]

Nah man Christians believe Jesus is the Messiah, the son of God, a form of God, the ultimate prophet of God. He is numero uno being that ever walked the Earth for Christians.


Y'all hold up a dude from the 1800s as that person.
:facepalm
You really don't get it do you? I have never said that Joseph Smith is The Guy, the church won't either. We believe in Jesus Christ as much as anybody, believing that he called Joseph Smith as a prophet doesn't diminish that. At least this is one point we can agree on, Jesus Christ=GOAT

I think it's about time this thread died, kind of beating a dead horse over and over here

[WayOfWade]

So it's like an almost full body cloth chastity belt?

Wouldn't Hanes long johns without the pee hole have sufficed for that purpose?

Are these things sewn in the temple or bought retail?

Isn't white a bad idea?

Do you wear them after Labor Day?
Sort of, if you want to look at it that way. They're just important clothes whose importance varies on the user.

And no Hanes wouldn't suffice; these garments contain special marks and meanings you learn in the temple, symbolism mainly.

And they're bought outside the temple mainly, although some you can buy there

And white can be a bad idea, I say this from experience. However white represents purity, so there's that

[ROCSteady]

But do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

Is Jesus the Son of God or a version of God to you?

Do you consider Jesus a mortal man or someone divine?

[ROCSteady]

Sort of, if you want to look at it that way. They're just important clothes whose importance varies on the user.

And no Hanes wouldn't suffice; these garments contain special marks and meanings you learn in the temple, symbolism mainly.

And they're bought outside the temple mainly, although some you can buy there

And white can be a bad idea, I say this from experience. However white represents purity, so there's that

That post was moreso me being actively dumb

[WayOfWade]

But do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

Is Jesus the Son of God or a version of God to you?

Do you consider Jesus a mortal man or someone divine?
Yes we believe in the Holy Trinity, in Joseph Smiths' own words "We believe in God the Eternal Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost."

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, whether that makes him his own type of God depends on who you ask

Jesus was a mortal man, due to the fact that he died (mortality). However he was/is always someone divine, because God is kind of his Dad