Is it just me or are NBA players committing more traveling violations than ever?

[ClipperRevival]

And some of these violations are cringe worthy and you wouldn't even get away with them at your local park in a million years. This tells me the fundamentals (footwork) aren't being stressed enough.

Some of it probably has to do with the game going away from the post game where footwork is crucial and stressing the 3. This not a knock on today's game or old school vs new school debate. Just an objective observation.

[Pushxx]

Ironically they are frequently calling the jab-step and drive or up-fake and drive as travels from the triple-threat position even when the player clearly dribbled before lifting their pivot foot.

It's annoying. Someone should make a montage of the six times it's happened to Kelly Olynyk. Poor dude gets shit on by referees on that move.

[ClipperRevival]

Ironically they are frequently calling the jab-step and drive or up-fake and drive as travels from the triple-threat position even when the player clearly dribbled before lifting their pivot foot.

It's annoying. Someone should make a montage of the six times it's happened to Kelly Olynyk. Poor dude gets shit on by referees on that move.

I think the issue is you need to put the ball on the floor before taking that step and not about lifting your pivot foot first. I used to actually do this for years as a youngster until someone told me that it was traveling. Take my step before putting the ball on the floor. That's traveling.

[iznogood]

Ironically they are frequently calling the jab-step and drive or up-fake and drive as travels from the triple-threat position even when the player clearly dribbled before lifting their pivot foot.

It's annoying. Someone should make a montage of the six times it's happened to Kelly Olynyk. Poor dude gets shit on by referees on that move.

I think the issue is you need to put the ball on the floor before taking that step and not about lifting your pivot foot first. I used to actually do this for years as a youngster until someone told me that it was traveling. Take my step before putting the ball on the floor. That's traveling.
I think the situation you're referring to is when a player starts to dribble in the direction of his non-pivot foot and Pushxx was probably referring to the situation, when the player goes in the direction of his pivot foot. These two are not the same.

[ClipperRevival]

I think the situation you're referring to is when a player starts to dribble in the direction of his non-pivot foot and Pushxx was probably referring to the situation, when the player goes in the direction of his pivot foot. These two are not the same.

Even then, once the ball hits the floor, it's a live dribble so it doesn't matter when you pick up your pivot foot once the ball hits the floor so I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying. Or am I missing something? The issue in the triple threat position is almost always about planting the non-pivot foot BEFORE the ball hits the floor. That's a travel.

[Grey Dawn]

Agreed and the 3-4 step thing has gotten ridiculous, players not nervous to do it now that it has almost never been called for 2+ years now

[ClipperRevival]

I think the situation you're referring to is when a player starts to dribble in the direction of his non-pivot foot and Pushxx was probably referring to the situation, when the player goes in the direction of his pivot foot. These two are not the same.

Or if you guys are simply saying that a guy moves his pivot foot before the non-pivot foot hitting the floor, then obviously, that's a travel. You would have to be very bad fundamentally to do that. LOL.

[AirFederer]

It`s not just you. Combined with the soft calls it can make games unwatchable. And then there are the commercials...(but that`s OT).

Players will do what they can get away with..rules need to be enforced.

[ClipperRevival]

Agreed and the 3-4 step thing has gotten ridiculous, players not nervous to do it now that it has almost never been called for 2+ years now

Even funnier are some of the travels that don't get called. But I think the refs are so pre-occupied with keeping the game soft and trying to watch out for any "hard" fouls that they sometimes miss the most basic calls. I blame that on the league enforcing the rules, not the refs. The refs just enforce what they are told to enforce. The league has gotten way too soft. You have to let these guys play a little. I just don't get it. Probably due to the Artest/Pistons ordeal but there has to be a happy-medium.

[PP34Deuce]

Fouls slow the game down and the goal of the NBA is to attract fans that wouldn't normally watch basketball.

I agree with you guys but if they called games like a college game, there would be continuous fouls and calls. Players would adjust but it would probably take a good 20 games for them to adjust.

I also believe with players like Westbrook, lebron, and Paul george that have long strides to the basket, it's hard to call them in real time consistently.

[iznogood]

Even then, once the ball hits the floor, it's a live dribble so it doesn't matter when you pick up your pivot foot once the ball hits the floor so I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying. Or am I missing something? The issue in the triple threat position is almost always about planting the non-pivot foot BEFORE the ball hits the floor. That's a travel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUanVq08lF4
I think this is the move Pushxx is referring to. This move is very basic and professional players don't travel on this play (unless they shuffle their pivot foot), because a cross step is the easiest and the most natural maneuver out of the tripple thread. Yet this move often gets called often even if a player executes it correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_RpDPdeR6Y#t=2m3s
The move Lebron uses at 2:03 is the move I thought you were referring to. NBA players usually lift their pivot foot off the floor before they let the ball out of their hands, which is technically a travel, but for some reason this move is never called in the NBA.

[rustycage]

Ironically they are frequently calling the jab-step and drive or up-fake and drive as travels from the triple-threat position even when the player clearly dribbled before lifting their pivot foot.

It's annoying. Someone should make a montage of the six times it's happened to Kelly Olynyk. Poor dude gets shit on by referees on that move.

Same thing (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_0xeW2U0AAuxgd.jpg) happens to Bobo
:cheers:

[outbreak]

it's really odd. some players get called and others don't. I remember a game where hezonja got called a couple of times for a travel on the catch when it's the same move everyone in the game was doing. it's like other things in the game where they go by reputation instead of what actually happened. that annoys me more because it shows zero consistency. it's like how a guy who's known as a shot blocker gets away with fouls when a guy who isn't gets called.

it does seem travels are increasing too, players travel on the gather all the time, players move pivot foot all the time, players slide and shuffle around all the time, players take extra steps on lay ups. it's getting silly.

[ClipperRevival]

Ironically they are frequently calling the jab-step and drive or up-fake and drive as travels from the triple-threat position even when the player clearly dribbled before lifting their pivot foot.

It's annoying. Someone should make a montage of the six times it's happened to Kelly Olynyk. Poor dude gets shit on by referees on that move.

I misunderstood you initially. I know exactly what you're saying. Don't know if they call it that much though but I get what you're saying now.

[ClipperRevival]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUanVq08lF4
I think this is the move Pushxx is referring to. This move is very basic and professional players don't travel on this play (unless they shuffle their pivot foot), because a cross step is the easiest and the most natural maneuver out of the tripple thread. Yet this move often gets called often even if a player executes it correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_RpDPdeR6Y#t=2m3s
The move Lebron uses at 2:03 is the move I thought you were referring to. NBA players usually lift their pivot foot off the floor before they let the ball out of their hands, which is technically a travel, but for some reason this move is never called in the NBA.

:cheers: I get what you're saying. I initially misunderstood Pushxx and therefore, your points too. But I get it now. Thanks.

[ClipperRevival]

it's really odd. some players get called and others don't. I remember a game where hezonja got called a couple of times for a travel on the catch when it's the same move everyone in the game was doing. it's like other things in the game where they go by reputation instead of what actually happened. that annoys me more because it shows zero consistency. it's like how a guy who's known as a shot blocker gets away with fouls when a guy who isn't gets called.

it does seem travels are increasing too, players travel on the gather all the time, players move pivot foot all the time, players slide and shuffle around all the time, players take extra steps on lay ups. it's getting silly.

Well, that's the thing. It's not even about whether the refs call it or not. The fact that so many players have their footwork messed up at the highest level isn't a good thing. You do see guys all the time travel and it doesn't even get called. That just tells me this person didn't perfect his fundamental footwork during his earlier years and this bad habit has been going on for years and hasn't been corrected.

You almost never see a guy like MJ or Kobe travel because they perfected the fundamentals first. It comes second nature to them.

[ClipperRevival]

But at the same time, I do understand that games played at this level are super fast and super intense and guys can sometimes just shuffle their feet in the heat of the moment. And this is something they would probably never do against inferior competition where the game would slow down for them and they won't be as rushed.

[Euroleague]

It's almost impossible for an NBA player to get called for a travel.

Antetokounmpo runs the length of the floor on 2-3 dribbles all the time in the NBA without getting called for a travel violation.

In EuroBasket, he stupidly tried to do the same thing twice in the 4th quarter of the Greece - Spain game (I guess in his mind FIBA allows the same thing), and was immediately called for traveling, and as a result of that, Greece lost the game.

Compare the two situations........

In EuroBasket, the same identical plays Antetokounmpo always does in the NBA resulted in absurd late game turnovers and caused Greece to lose the quarterfinal.

In the NBA, the same identical plays get Antetokounmpo with a #1 play of the night on Sportscenter, and endless YouTube clips.

It's all just gimmick hype marketing schemes by the NBA, to exaggerate all the time about how good NBA players are. And they just keep letting the travel violations get worse and worse.

Eventually, the NBA will probably be at war with FIBA over the NBA having banned dribbling as even being required at all, and the NBA "proposing" that FIBA do the same.

[Jameerthefear]

It's almost impossible for an NBA player to get called for a travel.

Antetokounmpo runs the length of the floor on 2-3 dribbles all the time in the NBA without getting called for a travel violation.

In EuroBasket, he stupidly tried to do the same thing twice in the 4th quarter of the Greece - Spain game (I guess in his mind FIBA allows the same thing), and was immediately called for traveling, and as a result of that, Greece lost the game.

Compare the two situations........

In EuroBasket, the same identical plays Antetokounmpo always does in the NBA resulted in absurd late game turnovers and caused Greece to lose the quarterfinal.

In the NBA, the same identical plays get Antetokounmpo with a #1 play of the night on Sportscenter, and endless YouTube clips.

It's all just gimmick hype marketing schemes by the NBA, to exaggerate all the time about how good NBA players are. And they just keep letting the travel violations get worse and worse.

Eventually, the NBA will probably be at war with FIBA over the NBA having banned dribbling as even being required at all, and the NBA "proposing" that FIBA do the same.
euroleague is where mario hezonja learned how to dribble a basketball
u r lying. they travel like hell over there.

[GrapeApe]

This isn't exactly a new thing. I remember watching NBA games with my dad back in the 90's and he would always comment about players getting away with travels. Even back then it had to be pretty blatant to be called. The thing that drives me crazy today is 3 seconds. I see guys camped out in the lane for an eternity without a whistle. You have to basically put down a recliner in the lane for a 3 second call. It's getting absurd.

[Euroleague]

But at the same time, I do understand that games played at this level are super fast and super intense and guys can sometimes just shuffle their feet in the heat of the moment. And this is something they would probably never do against inferior competition where the game would slow down for them and they won't be as rushed.

NBA regular season games are not super intense. NBA regular season is by far the least intense of the major sports leagues in North America. Even MLB with 162 games in a season, is still played with more intensity.

That's the real reason the NBA has a problem attracting fans besides just hardcore NBA fans. It's because most people can't watch the regular season, because most of the games are so boring, with no defense, and no effort.

[Euroleague]

This isn't exactly a new thing. I remember watching NBA games with my dad back in the 90's and he would always comment about players getting away with travels. Even back then it had to be pretty blatant to be called. The thing that drives me crazy today is 3 seconds. I see guys camped out in the lane for an eternity without a whistle. You have to basically put down a recliner in the lane for a 3 second call. It's getting absurd.

Patrick Ewing used to travel like crazy...and the refs never called it on him. Some other less famous centers would do the same moves he would do and get called for a travel.

The NBA itself has always been deciding what players become a star. It's true that part of this is nothing new.

[Smoke117]

NBA regular season games are not super intense. NBA regular season is by far the least intense of the major sports leagues in North America. Even MLB with 162 games in a season, is still played with more intensity.

That's the real reason the NBA has a problem attracting fans besides just hardcore NBA fans. It's because most people can't watch the regular season, because most of the games are so boring, with no defense, and no effort.

The NBA regular season is too long...no shit. This isn't some new concept. And it's a lot easier to get "intense" in a baseball game when more than half the time you are just standing around doing nothing. Baseball players are barely athletes when compared to basketball players.

[Euroleague]

it's really odd. some players get called and others don't. I remember a game where hezonja got called a couple of times for a travel on the catch when it's the same move everyone in the game was doing. it's like other things in the game where they go by reputation instead of what actually happened. that annoys me more because it shows zero consistency. it's like how a guy who's known as a shot blocker gets away with fouls when a guy who isn't gets called.

it does seem travels are increasing too, players travel on the gather all the time, players move pivot foot all the time, players slide and shuffle around all the time, players take extra steps on lay ups. it's getting silly.

Hezonja was easily one of the worst ball handlers in Euroleague from the shooting guard position, and I think it's fair to make the argument that he was the worst. That was his Achilles heel. He could never beat anyone with his dribble.

So I can attest, having watched him a lot in Euroleague and ACB that he's not a good ball handler.

The thing is, other players with his same attributes, can jump high, can run the floor well, can make exciting plays in the open court, finish lobs and stuff like that, are usually allowed to travel on those types of plays by NBA refs.

I mean LeBron, Antetokounmpo and guys like that, travel every single time almost (I mean like 95+% of the time) on such plays and it's absolutely never called on them.

This goes hand in hand with how the NBA has always used the refs to manufacture certain "stars" for marketing reasons.

[Euroleague]

euroleague is where mario hezonja learned how to dribble a basketball
u r lying. they travel like hell over there.

I told you dozens of times in this forum that Hezonja was hugely overrated, that he was the worst player in Barca's roster, and that he was annilhated by Spanoulis in the Euroleague playoffs.

I also told you he was a horrible ball handler, basically, he was the worst ball handler at SG in Euroleague.

And you were the freaking moron that kept saying he was going to be a superstar in NBA, and that kept saying he was "the best player in Europe", when he was actually a scrub in Euroleague.

This forum is where colossal level imbeciles like you like to boast about how stupid they are.

In every Hezonja thread here, Euroleague fans (except for Croatian homers) said Hezonja could not beat anyone off the dribble due to no speed, no first step, and not good enough handles.

You are one of the moron NBA only fans here that never actually saw Hezonja play that was saying he was the best in Europe and would be a star in NBA.

And then after he got drafted, and you actually watched him play at EuroBasket, you realized you were a freaking moron and how overrated he was. You started off guaranteeing Hezonja would be MVP of EuroBasket, top scorer of EuroBasket, lead Croatia to the gold medal, etc.

Then you quickly disappeared from those disucssions when you found out he was not even average at that level.

And FIBA and EuroBasket has nothing to do with the Euroleague, and the Euroleague is a higher level than FIBA. Something that has been explained to morons like you hundreds of times in this forum already, and yet you still can't grasp it.

Nor can you still comprehend that non racists automatically know you are a racist when you type things like "over there".

In general, you continue to fail every time you post here.

Guys like Hezonja and Antetokounmpo belong in the NBA, not because they are "better" or "more athletic" than players in Euroleague, but because they lack basic basketball fundamentals, and therefore they should be playing in the flying circus clown show that is the NBA, which is even registered under US law not as a "sports competition", but as "sports entertainment", the same category as WWE.

Only easily manipulated idiots like you think the NBA has endless dunks and highlight reels in it because the players are all "bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic".

In fact, the average Euroleague PF and C is way, way more athletic than the average NBA PF or C, and Euroleague players are taller on average overall, with Euroleague point guards also being significantly taller and bigger than NBA point guards.

It's all complete and total bullshit, for easily warped minds like you to soak in.

[Euroleague]

The NBA regular season is too long...no shit. This isn't some new concept. And it's a lot easier to get "intense" in a baseball game when more than half the time you are just standing around doing nothing. Baseball players are barely athletes when compared to basketball players.

Whatever the reasons are, the fact is the NBA regular season is by far the least intense of all the North American sports leagues.

So what if the NBA has great athletes in it, when most games are played with zero effort on defense.

It's just excuses for the fact the games have no intensity and no effort.

In Europe, the average Euroleague team plays about 75-76 games a season, and the range varies from 65-66 games on the low end, to 79-80 games a season on the high end. This accounts for the 3 competitions teams play in, Euroleague, national/regional league, and national cup.

Even in the cases of some big Euroleague teams having easy games in their national league some weeks, most of these teams are still playing 2/3s of their season games with great intensity and effort on defense, except for the Spanish Euroleague teams, because there is no defense played in the Spanish League, as it is a NBA style league. And that's the real reason the NBA media gimmicks constantly lie and claim it's "the 2nd best league in the world", even though these days it is behind NBA, Euroleague, Eurocup, Turkish League, and maybe even VTB League, and not really any better than Greek League.

European teams are required to practice twice a day on all non game days and non travel days. And even on most travel days, they practice once a day.

NBA teams are often known to practice no more than 2-3 times in a month.

And NBA teams actually have less travel time, because they have their own charter flights, while only one team in Euroleague has that.

It's all just bullshit excuses. The reality is the NBA wants a soft league, with no defense, and the refs helping manufacture certain players and push certain teams. It's all done for marketing and sponsorship reasons.

It's sad that so many people can watch NBA games and can't see something that is so incredibly obvious. NCAA is like 3 times more intense than the NBA regular season is.

But I do agree that the NBA regular season should be reduced down to like 65-70 games or so.

[senelcoolidge]

The NBA is more gimmicky than ever. They don't call travels unless it's a no name player. Why can't nba refs call the game by the rule book. It's all about entertainment, not pure basketball.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Maybe. It do notice more blatant travels aren't getting called. Literally seeing guys take 5, 6, 7 steps without a dribble and the refs let it go. Rather incredible.

How does this happen?
https://youtu.be/gMhtNzcabBQ?t=51

Or this
https://youtu.be/OsZSuNyQioI?t=9

Or this
https://youtu.be/nb1tMdHeUKM?t=36

[bdreason]

Maybe the refs could concentrate more on traveling if they weren't so focused on calling ticky-tack hand-checking fouls.

[buddha]

the NBA is finally starting to call them. dudes have been traveling like mad for years.

[swagga]

Agreed and the 3-4 step thing has gotten ridiculous, players not nervous to do it now that it has almost never been called for 2+ years now

If you think refereeing is bad now, you should've watched ball back in the very late 90s and especially the early 00s. The post jordan era, the 'thug ball' era as they called it, had some atrocious fundamentals..... players are actually quite ok right now, just some bored nigggas on this site making threads :oldlol:

[90sgoat]

NBA rules have little in continuation with normal basketball rules.

Normal basketball says you can take two and only steps with the ball after a live dribble. The rule until the mid 00s used to mean you gathered the ball on the first step and jumped on the second step. Now the NBA allows the arbitrary 'gather' step.

This has had serious and absurd consequences for the so called 'continuation' which is an utter joke today. In the 90s continuation was in the actual act of shooting. If it was called on a layup it meant the player was actually in the process of jumping, due to having to gather on the first step. Today, players can get fouled on the 'gather step' which means they can then take two full steps AFTER the whistly. This gives absurd situations where the defense has to continue playing defense AFTER the whistle to avoid the easy And-1. It really is absurd to watch.

[3ball]

.
http://i.imgur.com/WO4hOoz.gif


Navigation Efficiency - how did Iverson get from the 3-point line, all the way to the rim in one dribble?

He did it using what I like to call "navigation efficiency", which is taking the maximum number of steps, with the least number of dribbles - this is something players in the 60's were not allowed to do because the ref would call a travel or carry...

In the GIF above of Iverson, he takes 1 dribble and 3 steps - this is standard footwork in the modern eras (post-1980)... but if Iverson had to take an extra dribble here, he wouldn't have generated nearly as much momentum, and the play would not have been as athletic.

In the 60's, to abide by the strict dribbling rules at the time, every player would take an extra dribble in the GIF above (oscar might take several extra dribbles)... This is huge - because when you DON'T take that extra dribble and AREN'T slowed down by the extra dribble - you're RUNNING - so you can generate better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

But when you have to take an extra dribble, it slows you down and you lose momentum and explosion going up for the shot - this is the case with ALL dribbling moves, not just the one above.

This is THE reason why players in the 60's appear less athletic - they simply weren't allowed to do the same moves today's players are allowed to do - if you aren't allowed to do the same moves, how can you make equally athletic plays?... the less stringent travelling and carrying rules that began in the 80's allowed players to be navigation-efficient and that efficiency allows them to gain better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

here's another one - jordan does the standard 1-dribble-3-step footwork - if jordan had to take an extra dribble here, he would not have generated the tremendous momentum he did to finish the play as explosively as he did... As you can see here, Jordan gets to RUN when he doesn't have to dribble, which generates more momentum and explosiveness than if was slowed down by having to take extra dribble(s).


http://i.imgur.com/hN7i1IJ.gif

[swagga]

.
http://i.imgur.com/WO4hOoz.gif


Navigation Efficiency - how did Iverson get from the 3-point line, all the way to the rim in one dribble?

He did it using what I like to call "navigation efficiency", which is taking the maximum number of steps, with the least number of dribbles - this is something players in the 60's were not allowed to do because the ref would call a travel or carry...

In the GIF above of Iverson, he takes 1 dribble and 3 steps - this is standard footwork in the modern eras (post-1980)... but if Iverson had to take an extra dribble here, he wouldn't have generated nearly as much momentum, and the play would not have been as athletic.

In the 60's, to abide by the strict dribbling rules at the time, every player would take an extra dribble in the GIF above (oscar might take several extra dribbles)... This is huge - because when you DON'T take that extra dribble - when you AREN'T slowed down by having to dribble, you are RUNNING, so you can generate better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

But when you have to take an extra dribble, it slows you down and you lose momentum and explosion going up for the shot - this is the case with ALL dribbling moves, not just the one above.

This is THE reason why players in the 60's appear less athletic - they simply weren't allowed to do the same moves today's players are allowed to do - if you aren't allowed to do the same moves, how can you make equally athletic plays?... the less stringent travelling and carrying rules that began in the 80's allowed players to be navigation-efficient and that efficiency allows them to gain better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

here's another one - jordan does the standard 1-dribble-3-step footwork - if jordan had to take an extra dribble here, he would not have generated the tremendous momentum he did to finish the play as explosively as he did... As you can see here, Jordan gets to RUN when he doesn't have to dribble, which generates more momentum and explosiveness than if was slowed down by having to take extra dribble(s).


http://i.imgur.com/hN7i1IJ.gif

The answer: just a carry. :roll:

[ClipperRevival]

Watching the Laker game right now, 2 turnovers off the triple threat position in like 4 minutes. :facepalm Terrible fundamentals at the highest level.