Klay after 4 years > Pip relative to their competition

[3ball]

.
Klay's comp at SG in 2015 (60 game min).....Pip's comp at SF in 1991

James Harden............................................ Dominique
Dwayne Wade............................................ Bird
Jimmy Butler............................................ . Mullin
not elite............................................. ...... King
not elite............................................. ...... Worthy
not even good


In Klay's 4th season (last year), he was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas 4th year Pippen was not.

Also, Klay's tougher mentality resulted in greater success for his team - in Klay's 3rd playoff run (last year) - he helped his team win a championship.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers.


Klay 2015 Finals: 15.8 ppg.. 40.9 fg.. 50.9 ts
Pip 1996 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 34.3 fg.. 42.9 ts
Pip 1998 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 41.0 fg.. 50.2 ts


^^^^ See, pretty similar.. Pip's 96' was woat though.. I don't think Klay can top that..

Btw, speaking of Klay, check out MJ vs. Klay's dad in the first 30 seconds of this video from 1984.. Those 30 seconds show MJ's first 3 field goals, including an insane shot over Klay's dad at the 49s mark.. :bowdown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vi149sVMSI&t=0m27s

[1987_Lakers]

Here we go

[dubeta]

What about Pippens 91-93 Finals stats??

Would really like to know

[SouBeachTalents]

I'll say it again, OP doesn't even like basketball

[warriorfan]

To be honest I agree with OP. Scottie Pippen is the most overrated player of all time. Scottie Pipppen wouldn't of made one all star game if he didn't play with Jordan much like how Klay Thompson wouldn't of made one all star game with out playing with Steph Curry.

Scottie Pippen is around a Klay Thompson level and let's get this straight, it's not a good level to be at. These guys are journymen role players who got thrust into the limelight because of their trancendent superstar teammates(CUrry and Jordan).

Scottie Pippen and Klay thompson are probably the most overrated, lucky players of all time. Take them off their respective teams and they are just another player in the Association.

[Terahite]

Didn't Steve Kerr equate Lebron with Pippen recently? Ethered. :lol

[Leroy Jetson]

You do realize basketball consists of both offense and defense. While they are very different players you might be able to say offensively they are close. On Defense Pippen was an all time great, Klay is a good defender, it's not even close.

[fragokota]

How about that D though OP?

[3ball]

What about Pippens 91-93 Finals stats??

Would really like to know



Far less than what Klay's career best will be.. But who cares - Pippen's 1991 stats are dwarfed by this 34-year olds 28/5/5 on 47%:


https://media.giphy.com/media/53CjFRnmgJxqo/giphy.gif

[3ball]

I'll say it again, OP doesn't even like basketball



I like fundamentals and sophisticated repertoires (not 3-and-D):


https://media.giphy.com/media/e6ojiggwrZgRy/giphy.gif


I also like when the lane isn't wide open all the time, so any tom dick and harry can get in there whenever they want..

It's better when the lane some congestion, so even the best players are forced to take the toughest shots possible, and therefore have the highest level repertoires.

[Kvnzhangyay]

What's Pippen's averages in the finals again compared to Klay's?

[3ball]

What's Pippen's averages in the finals again compared to Klay's?
Klay 2015 Finals: 15.8 ppg.. 40.9 fg.. 50.9 ts
Pip 1996 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 34.3 fg.. 42.9 ts
Pip 1998 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 41.0 fg.. 50.2 ts

[SouBeachTalents]

Klay 2015 Finals: 15.8 ppg.. 40.9 fg.. 50.9 ts
Pip 1996 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 34.3 fg.. 42.9 ts
Pip 1998 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 41.0 fg.. 50.2 ts

But this thread was about how they compare after 4 years. 1991-93 Pippen is MUCH more relevant to that than 1996-98 Pippen

[livingby3's]

3ball hates the 3 ball n name himself that. Obviously a self loathing person who hates his own existence

[TommyGriffin]

Klay 2015 Finals: 15.8 ppg.. 40.9 fg.. 50.9 ts
Pip 1996 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 34.3 fg.. 42.9 ts
Pip 1998 Finals:.. 15.7 ppg.. 41.0 fg.. 50.2 ts

Jordan and Curry got it done with these shithouse players while LeBron needed a top 3 player in Dwayne Wade to get his. :facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan and Curry got it done with these shithouse players while LeBron needed a top 3 player in Dwayne Wade to get his. :facepalm

Wade was not a top 3 player in 2012 and certainly not one in 2013

[3ball]

But this thread was about how they compare after 4 years. 1991-93 Pippen is MUCH more relevant to that than 1996-98 Pippen


Pippen bombed two Finals in his prime.. Klay has plenty of time to do worse, but I doubt he will - it's pretty impossible for a 2nd option to do worse than 15 ppg on 34% shooting like Pip did in 1996..

But you're forgetting the title of the thread: Klay > Pip relative to their competition.. In Klay's 4th season (last year), he was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas 4th year Pippen was not.

Also, Klay's tougher mentality resulted in greater success for his team - in Klay's 3rd playoff run (last year) - he helped his team win a championship.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers.

[FKAri]

What was MJ's competition in the 90's? Mitch Richmond? :lol

[warriorfan]

What was MJ's competition in the 90's? Mitch Richmond? :lol

Mitch RIch was legit AF

[FKAri]

Mitch RIch was legit AF

Meanwhile the last 10 years has seen: Kobe, Wade, Roy, Harden, Carter.....can keep going.....AI, Ray, Ginobli, Rip, Monta, McGrady...

DAMN

[3ball]

What was MJ's competition in the 90's? Mitch Richmond? :lol
..2015 SG's....................1990 SG's

James Harden............. Michael Jordan
Dwayne Wade............. Clyde Drexler
DeMar Derozan............ Ron Harper
Jimmy Butler.............. Mitch Richmond
Klay Thompson............ Joe Dumars

................................ Reggie Miller
................................ Reggie Lewis
................................ Dale Ellis
................................ Ronaldo Blackman
................................ Alvin Robertson

[GrapeApe]

Pippen bombed two Finals in his prime.. Klay has plenty of time to do worse, but I doubt he will - it's pretty impossible for a 2nd option to do worse than 15 ppg on 34% shooting like Pip did in 1996..

But you're forgetting the title of the thread: Klay > Pip relative to their competition.. In Klay's 4th season (last year), he was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas 4th year Pippen was not.

Also, Klay's tougher mentality resulted in greater success for his team - in Klay's 3rd playoff run (last year) - he helped his team win a championship.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers.

Pippen was better in his 4th season than Thompson, both in the regular season and playoffs. What does being an all-star have to do with anything? Wally Szczerbiak was an all-star. I suppose he's better than '91 Pippen too? Besides, Pippen was an all-star the year before. Combining regular season and playoffs, Pippen was a top 10 player in the league in 1991. GTFOH with that "not an all-star" bullshit. You take the guy who's good through February. I'll take the guy who's good through June.

[FKAri]

..2015 SG's....................1990 SG's

James Harden............. Michael Jordan
Dwayne Wade............. Clyde Drexler
DeMar Derozan............ Ron Harper
Jimmy Butler.............. Mitch Richmond
Klay Thompson............ Joe Dumars

................................ Reggie Miller
................................ Reggie Lewis
................................ Dale Ellis
................................ Ronaldo Blackman
................................ Alvin Robertson

Drexler = legit :applause:

But then you lost me...
Ron Harper? :roll:
Dumars and Robertson and half those nigguhs in the 90s?????? :lol


:hammerhead:

[3ball]

Meanwhile the last 10 years has seen: Kobe, Wade, Roy, Harden, Carter.....can keep going.....AI, Ray, Ginobli, Rip, Monta, McGrady...

DAMN


.
The wings from MJ's era are equal or better overall


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis


And MJ's era had better bigs too DAMN

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen was better in his 4th season than Thompson, both in the regular season and playoffs. What does being an all-star have to do with anything? Wally Szczerbiak was an all-star. I suppose he's better than '91 Pippen too? Besides, Pippen was an all-star the year before. Combining regular season and playoffs, Pippen was a top 10 player in the league in 1991. GTFOH with that "not an all-star" bullshit. You take the guy who's good through February. I'll take the guy who's good through June.

Current Kobe > '91 Pippen by that logic as well

[FKAri]

ay yo 3ball...you know my favorite 2000's Center? Olajuwon :lol


So what if I have a small dicc? :confusedshrug:

Interesting how you use dates that are convenient to you. I simply said "last 10 years".

[ShawkFactory]

Jeff...why doesn't the ignore function include threads that are made?

[3ball]

Ron Harper? :roll:


Ron Harper's stats (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harpero01.html#1987-1990-sum:per_game) pre-injury (1987-1990):

19.8 ppg.. 4.8 rpg.. 5.0 apg.. 2.3 stl.. 1.0 blk


Btw, you don't know shit about the game if you don't think Dumars and Robertson wouldn't have today's SG's in handcuffs while dropping 20 ppg+

But I understand your confusion - players in previous eras were TWO-WAY players, which is something you're not used to from watching today's game.

[3ball]

Interesting how you use dates that are convenient to you. I simply said "last 10 years"


.
The time frame had to match Jordan's 15 year Bulls tenure - as you can see, the wings from MJ's era are equal or better overall:


...2000-2014.................1984-1998

Kobe Bryant.............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James............ Magic Johnson
Kevin Durant............. Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........... Clyde Drexler
Russell Westbrook..... Gary Payton
Tracey McGrady........ Dominique Wilkins
James Harden........... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.......... Scottie Pippen
Paul Pierce............... Adrian Dantley
Carmelo Anthony....... Alex English
Vince Carter............. James Worthy
Allen Iverson............ Penny Hardaway
Jason Kidd................ Jason Kidd


Honorable Mention 1984-1998: Doctor J, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Lewis, Reggie Miller, Sidney Moncrief, Joe Dumars, Eddie Jones, Mitch Richmond, Alvin Robertson, Detlef Schrempf, Dennis Johnson, Latrell Sprewell, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin, Kiki Vandeweghe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg), Mark Aguirre, Jamaal Mashburn

Honorable Mention 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Andre Igouodala, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas, Michael Redd, Draymond Green, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis

[GrapeApe]

Current Kobe > '91 Pippen by that logic as well

True, and there have been players who weren't all-stars but made all-NBA teams. Being an all-star is borderline meaningless. As I said before, Pippen had a top 10 overall season in 1991.

[3ball]

What does being an all-star have to do with anything?


Non-starters in the all-star game are voted in by the coaches.. That means 4th year Klay was voted by the coaches as a top 12 player in the conference, while 4th year Pippen was not.. Therefore, Klay was better relative to his competition than Pippen.

Obviously, I'll rely on the 1991 and 2015 coaches' word over yours regarding the competitive climate at the time.

And again, that was just the regular season.. In Klay's last playoff run (his 3rd playoff run), he helped his team win a championship, in part by being tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

[GrapeApe]

Um, I know how the all-star game works. I love how you conveniently ignored everything else in my post. Pippen had a better overall season in 1991 than several all-stars. Let me spell it out for you. February, March, April, May, June. Those months have absolutely nothing to to with making the all-star team, and those are the most important months of the season. You're entire "all-star" argument is based on the first 3 months of the regular season.

By your dumb ass logic, a player could miss being an all-star, go on a tear for the 2nd half of the season and win MVP (this has actually happened in baseball) and still not be "one of the 12 best players in his conference". As I said before, there have been all-NBA players who weren't all-stars, and all-NBA is more excusive.

[3ball]

You're entire "all-star" argument is based on the first 3 months of the regular season..

But there's still February, March, April, May, June.


Let's go by your logic..

The coaches said Klay was a top 12 player in his conference during November, December, and January, while Pippen was not.

And Klay was better in May and June too - in Klay's last playoff run (his 3rd playoff run), he helped his team win a championship, in part by being tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better in first 3 months of season, and also May and June - that's MOST of the season... See, I just destroyed you using your own horrible logic.

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

To be honest I agree with OP. Scottie Pippen is the most overrated player of all time. Scottie Pipppen wouldn't of made one all star game if he didn't play with Jordan much like how Klay Thompson wouldn't of made one all star game with out playing with Steph Curry.Not only did he play in the All-Star game when Jordan was retired but he also won MVP of the All-Star game. He also led the Bulls to the 2nd round of the playoffs... Nearly made it to the Conference finals.

[juju151111]

Let's go by your logic..

The coaches said Klay was a top 12 player in his conference during November, December, and January, while Pippen was not.

And Klay was better in May and June too - in Klay's last playoff run (his 3rd playoff run), he helped his team win a championship, in part by being tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better in first 3 months of season, and also May and June - that's MOST of the season... See, I just destroyed you using your own horrible logic.
Pippen had a better 4th year and Playoffs in then Klay idiot

[Dragonyeuw]

Pippen's 4th season playoff run:

21.6 points, 8.9 rebounds,5.8 assists, 2.5 steals, 1.1 blocks, .564 TS.

What a scrub.

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

Pippen

17.8 pts
7.3 reb
6.2 ast
2.4 stl
1.1 blk
52% fg


Klay

21.7 pts
3.2 reb
2.9 ast
1.1 stl
0.8 blk
46% fg



Pippen's stats in his 4th year certainly looks more impressive than Klay's 4th year stats. I think it's safe to say the Pippen was more valuable to his team than Klay is to his team.

[MP.Trey]

3ball hates the 3 ball n name himself that. Obviously a self loathing person who hates his own existence
:lol

[plowking]

I'd take Klay over MJ.

More reliable and can get past the first round without a Scottie Pippen like player.

[dubeta]

1-9. #neverforget

[dunksby]

90s is the most watered down era, especially for SGs.

[stalkerforlife]

Pippen

17.8 pts
7.3 reb
6.2 ast
2.4 stl
1.1 blk
52% fg


Klay

21.7 pts
3.2 reb
2.9 ast
1.1 stl
0.8 blk
46% fg



Pippen's stats in his 4th year certainly looks more impressive than Klay's 4th year stats. I think it's safe to say the Pippen was more valuable to his team than Klay is to his team.

Pippen had almost as many steals per game as Klay had assists and rebounds. :biggums:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Pippen > Klay, not close.

[ShaqTwizzle]

(1991) (Pippen) (1st Finals appearance)
21 / 10 / 6.6-apg on 53%TS
-
21 / 10 / 7.0-apg / 2.8-spg on 55%TS (over last 4 games)

Outplayed Jordan in G5 (elimination game)
Pipp : 32 / 13 / 7-ast on 59%TS
Jord : 30 / 4 / 10-ast on 57%TS

________________________________________

(2015) (Klay) (1st Finals appearance)
15 / 4 / 1.7-apg on 50%TS

:pimp:

[3ball]

Pippen

17.8 pts
52% fg


Klay

21.7 pts
46% fg

Pippen's stats in his 4th year certainly looks more impressive than Klay's 4th year stats. I think it's safe to say the Pippen was more valuable to his team than Klay is to his team.


The stats don't matter - Klay was better RELATIVE TO HIS COMPETITION in his 4th season than 4th-year Pippen.. Klay was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas Pippen was not.

Don't blame me just because today's game has weaker competition and players, which allows Klay to be a top 12 player in the conference... :confusedshrug:

Also, Pippen's 4th playoff run doesn't count because Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year, so we don't know how he will do... But we know how he did in his 3rd playoff run - he helped his team win a championship, in part because he was strong mentally..

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better in his latest playoff run (his 3rd playoff run) than Pippen was in his 3rd playoff run.

[Kblaze8855]

the all-star game has never been the 12 best players in each conference which is why Steve Johnson made it in 1988 and John Stockton didn't.

Pippen was already an all-star level player whether or not he made it any particular season. He'd already been an all star in 1990. And just because they made it in the All Star game at guard I suspect few coaches or GM's would have taken Ricky Pierce or Hershey Hawkins over Pippen at that point.

[SouBeachTalents]

the all-star game has never been the 12 best players in each conference which is why Steve Johnson made it in 1988 and John Stockton didn't.

Pippen was already an all-star level player whether or not he made it any particular season. He'd already been an all star in 1990. And just because they made it in the All Star game at guard I suspect few coaches or GM's would have taken Ricky Pierce or Hershey Hawkins over Pippen at that point.

All-NBA selection >>>>> All-Star selection

[3ball]

(1996) (Pippen) (4th Finals appearance... and in his uber-prime)
15 ppg on 34%FG
-
(1998) (Pippen)
15 ppg on 41%FG


(2015) (Klay) (1st Finals appearance)
15 / 4 / 1.7-apg on 50%TS


The stats don't matter - Klay was better RELATIVE TO HIS COMPETITION in his 4th season than 4th-year Pippen.. Klay was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas Pippen was not.

Don't blame me just because today's game has weaker competition and players, which allows Klay to be a top 12 player in the conference... :confusedshrug:

Also, Pippen's 4th playoff run doesn't count because Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year, so we don't know how he will do... But we know how he did in his 3rd playoff run - he helped his team win a championship, in part because he was strong mentally..

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better in his latest playoff run (his 3rd playoff run) than Pippen was in his 3rd playoff run.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

3ball, you're wrong. Just accept it. All-star selections are a horrible way to evaluate players for several reasons, take the L and move on.

[SouBeachTalents]

The stats don't matter - Klay was better RELATIVE TO HIS COMPETITION in his 4th season than 4th-year Pippen.. Klay was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), whereas Pippen was not.

Don't blame me just because today's game has weaker competition and players, which allows Klay to be a top 12 player in the conference... :confusedshrug:

Also, Pippen's 4th playoff run doesn't count because Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year, so we don't know how he will do... But we know how he did in his 3rd playoff run - he helped his team win a championship, in part because he was strong mentally..

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better in his latest playoff run (his 3rd playoff run) than Pippen was in his 3rd playoff run.

Hmmm, wonder why you chose TS% for Klay but not for Pippen in '98

'15 Klay: 16/4/2 on 41%/51% TS
'98 Pippen: 16/7/5 on 41%/50% TS

Plus, I don't think ANYONE was writing articles like this about Klay last June

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all

And plus, shit like this doesn't come up in the stat sheet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nErCkc2XNjk

[3ball]

Pippen was already an all-star level player whether or not he made it any particular season. He'd already been an all star in 1990. And just because they made it in the All Star game at guard I suspect few coaches or GM's would have taken Ricky Pierce or Hershey Hawkins over Pippen at that point.


Non-starters in the all-star game are voted in by the coaches.. That means 4th year Klay was voted by the coaches as a top 12 player in the conference, while 4th year Pippen was not.. Therefore, Klay was better relative to his competition than Pippen.

Obviously, I'll rely on the coaches' word over yours regarding the competitive climate at the time.

And again, that was just the regular season.. Klay did better in his 3rd playoff run than Pippen (Pippen's 4th playoff run doesn't count, because Klay's 4th run will be this season).. In Klay's last playoff run (his 3rd playoff run), he helped his team win a championship, in part by being tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better in his latest playoff run (his 3rd playoff run) than Pippen was in his 3rd playoff run.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

It's time to ignore this thread, all 3ball is doing is copy pasting the same crap without actually responding to anything.

I really wouldn't be surprised if the dude was a bot.

[Kblaze8855]

there's no way you fail to understand that the positional difference often keeps better players out of the all-star game than who actually makes it even if you choose to keep copy/pasting the same post over and over....as if it hasn't been explained to you that it isn't acceptable going forward.

people complain about your bullshit all day everyday and send us emails asking why you aren't banned for doing it then I say something to you about it and I'm the bad guy.

believe it or not just because I find you ridiculous I wouldn't ban you for your opinion if you aren't annoying the shit out of everybody and borderline spamming every topic with repeated posts.

if you have nothing to say just don't say anything. saying the exact same thing you just said is at best annoying and at worst bannable.

[3ball]

Hmmm, wonder why you chose TS% for Klay but not for Pippen in '98

'15 Klay: 16/4/2 on 41%/51% TS
'96 Pippen: 15/7/5 on 34%/42% TS
'98 Pippen: 16/7/5 on 41%/50% TS


I added Pippen's woat 1996 stats above - it's amazing that Klay's production in his first Finals can match Pippen's, even though Pippen was in his 4th and 6th Finals.

But this thread is about Klay vs. Pippen after their 4th season.. Klay was better relative to his competition in the regular season (he was an all-star), and his playoff run last year (his 3rd playoff run) was better than Pippen's 3rd playoff run (where he had the goat choke).





I don't think ANYONE was writing articles like this about Klay last June

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-06-11/sports/9806110398_1_scottie-pippen-bulls-karl-malone
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635114/What-about-Pippen-for-NBA-Finals-MVP.html?pg=all


That was before Pippen disappeared in the final 2 games with 8 and 6 points, which forced Jordan to produce the greatest clutch moments the game has ever seen.

Do you realize how many horrific, choking, and disappearing performances Pippen has in the playoffs?... I'm going to make a thread about it - there are literally dozens of playoff series during the championship runs where Pippen averaged 15-16 ppg and shot horribly, while MJ had to save the day with goat stats..

There are only 2 playoffs series where MJ didn't average 10+ ppg than Pippen.. And in those 2 series, MJ averaged 5 ppg and 8 ppg more.

Certainly, Klay doesn't have Pippen's monumental list of chokes, disappearances, and underperformances.. It's pretty amazing how bad Pippen was, considering his stature as a HOF - no wonder Jordan had to produce goat stats for the Bulls to win.

[3ball]

It's time to ignore this thread, all 3ball is doing is copy pasting the same crap without actually responding to anything.

I really wouldn't be surprised if the dude was a bot.
You guys don't respond to a single point I make in my posts - you bring up some other shit, which I graciously respond to, while my points go unresponded to...

So I have to repost some of the same stuff, since my points aren't responded to (even though I respond to everyone else's).

[3ball]

there's no way you fail to understand that the positional difference often keeps better players out of the all-star game than who actually makes it


This is bullshit... All-star teams don't pick just by position... There is frequently an extra guard, forward or center, depending on who the best players are.

The notion that all-star games always have the same number of guys at each position is either dumb, ignorant, or both.. My guess is that you thought you could say some dumb shit like that, and no one would call you on it - you wrongly thought it would fly

It's the same thing with the all-nba teams - they don't do that positionally either - they just pick the best 5 guys, and many times there are 3 forwards, or 3 guards, or no center, etc.

[SouBeachTalents]

Certainly, Klay doesn't have Pippen's monumental list of chokes, disappearances, and underperformances.. It's pretty amazing how bad Pippen was, considering his stature as a HOF - no wonder Jordan had to produce goat stats for the Bulls to win.

Thompson averaged 10/4/2 on 37% Games 3-6 of the Finals. That's absolutely pathetic from your second option anyway you spin it

[ShaqTwizzle]

(1991) (Pippen) (1st Finals appearance)
21 / 10 / 6.6-apg on 53%TS
-
21 / 10 / 7.0-apg / 2.8-spg on 55%TS (over last 4 games)

Outplayed Jordan in G5 (elimination game)
Pipp : 32 / 13 / 7-ast on 59%TS
Jord : 30 / 4 / 10-ast on 57%TS

________________________________________

(2015) (Klay) (1st Finals appearance)
15 / 4 / 1.7-apg on 50%TS

:pimp:

Keep ignoring this shit... and here is some more.

Pippen (92 Finals) : 21 / 8.3 / 7.7-apg on 56%TS
+
Pippen (93 Finals) : 21 / 9.2 / 7.7-apg on 44%FG
+
Pippen (97 Finals) : 20 / 8 / 3.5-apg on 54%TS

Pippen has a handful of Finals series better then Klay's 2015 series and he has 2 that are light years better (91, 92) etc...

[Straight_Ballin]

Keep ignoring this shit... and here is some more.

Pippen (92 Finals) : 21 / 8.3 / 7.7-apg on 56%TS
+
Pippen (93 Finals) : 21 / 9.2 / 7.7-apg on 44%FG
+
Pippen (97 Finals) : 20 / 8 / 3.5-apg on 54%TS

Pippen has a handful of Finals series better then Klay's 2015 series and he has 2 that are light years better (91, 92) etc...

Keep posting about a guy that has played in 6 finals and comparing it to a guy that has played in just one finals series. Compare each guy's first finals and be done with it. As Klay plays in more finals, then we have something to talk about.

[3ball]

Keep ignoring this shit... and here is some more.

Pippen (92 Finals) : 21 / 8.3 / 7.7-apg on 56%TS
+
Pippen (93 Finals) : 21 / 9.2 / 7.7-apg on 44%FG
+
Pippen (97 Finals) : 20 / 8 / 3.5-apg on 54%TS

Pippen has a handful of Finals series better then Klay's 2015 series and he has 2 that are light years better (91, 92) etc...
None of that matters because Klay only has 3 playoff runs, so we can only compare to Pippen's 3rd playoff run..

And Klay did better in his 3rd playoff run than Pippen - he helped his team win a championship, in part because he was tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better SO FAR in the playoffs - Klay's 3rd playoff run > Pippen's 3rd playoff run.

[SouBeachTalents]

None of that matters because Klay only has 3 playoff runs, so we can only compare to Pippen's 3rd playoff run..

And Klay did better in his 3rd playoff run than Pippen - he helped his team win a championship, in part because he was tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better relative to his competition in his 4th regular season (he was an all-star), and better SO FAR in the playoffs - Klay's 3rd playoff run > Pippen's 3rd playoff run.

I'll just post this again. Thompson averaged 10/4/2 on 37% Games 3-6 of the Finals

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Keep posting about a guy that has played in 6 finals and comparing it to a guy that has played in just one finals series. Compare each guy's first finals and be done with it. As Klay plays in more finals, then we have something to talk about.
Pippen's 1991 finals was better than Thompson's 2015 finals. Thread should have ended there.

You're right that it's not much of a discussion at this point, Klay has a lot to prove because he's still relatively new to the league.

[Straight_Ballin]

Pippen's 1991 finals was better than Thompson's 2015 finals. Thread should have ended there.

You're right that it's not much of a discussion at this point, Klay has a lot to prove because he's still relatively new to the league.

Exactly.

/thread

[ShaqTwizzle]

helped his team win a championship, in part because he was tough mentally.

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/klay-fouled-out.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

This is bullshit... All-star teams don't pick just by position... There is frequently an extra guard, forward or center, depending on who the best players are.

The notion that all-star games always have the same number of guys at each position is either dumb, ignorant, or both.. My guess is that you thought you could say some dumb shit like that, and no one would call you on it - you wrongly thought it would fly

It's the same thing with the all-nba teams - they don't do that positionally either - they just pick the best 5 guys, and many times there are 3 forwards, or 3 guards, or no center, etc.


just an issue of what year it is because the rules change now and then. The injury replacement rules and the format at the time changes. A couple of years ago they changed it so they wouldn't have to have a center at all.

Years ago they had to have to. That's why many of the worst all-star selections have been centers like Donaldson, Johnson, Ratliff, and Jamal Magloire.


the positions matter and they absolutely keep better players out of the all-star game and always have.

and even if they didn't the all-star game wouldn't be the 12 best players because it's thrown off by the popular vote deciding five of the 12.

Pippen certainly isn't the best example of it ****ing someone out of a game but the fact is it does happen.

People have been All NBA second team and not been all stars.

Quite a few of them I'm sure. Phil Ford and Rod Strickland come to mind first.

there's obviously a case to be made that the Allstars are the top players in the league but you certainly can't look at the history and conclude they are the 12 best players in each conference is only for the positions.

Stevie Johnson being an all-star in 1988 while John Stockton is doing legendary numbers not making it has nothing to do with which of them was better at basketball.

which again... I'm positive you are aware of. You're just willing to play dumb to troll.

[SouBeachTalents]

just an issue of what year it is because the rules change now and then. The injury replacement rules and the format at the time changes. A couple of years ago they changed it so they wouldn't have to have a center at all.

Years ago they had to have to. That's why many of the worst all-star selections have been centers like Donaldson, Johnson, Ratliff, and Jamal Magloire.


the positions matter and they absolutely keep better players out of the all-star game and always have.

and even if they didn't the all-star game wouldn't be the 12 best players because it's thrown off by the popular vote deciding five of the 12.

Pippen certainly isn't the best example of it ****ing someone out of a game but the fact is it does happen.

People have been All NBA second team and not been all stars.

Quite a few of them I'm sure. Phil Ford and Rod Strickland come to mind first.

there's obviously a case to be made that the Allstars are the top players in the league but you certainly can't look at the history and conclude they are the 12 best players in each conference is only for the positions.

Stevie Johnson being an all-star in 1988 while John Stockton is doing legendary numbers not making it has nothing to do with which of them was better at basketball.

which again... I'm positive you are aware of. You're just willing to play dumb to troll.

:applause: I'll never understand the importance people put on all-star selections. Kobe's going to get the most votes this year and be a starter, Using 3ball's logic, current Kobe > '91 Pippen

[3ball]

Pippen's 1991 finals was better than Thompson's 2015 finals. Thread should have ended there.


Bullshit.. 1991 was Pippen's 4th playoff run - Klay hasn't had a 4th playoff run yet.

And we can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Bullshit.. 1991 was Pippen's 4th playoff run, which Klay hasn't had yet.

We can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in their 4th regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).
When did I say playoff run? I said finals because I compared Klay's first finals appearance to Pippen's. Pippen's 1991 finals > Thompson's 2015 finals. That is an irrefutable fact.

[3ball]

Pippen's 1991 finals > Thompson's 2015 finals. That is an irrefutable fact.


And Pippen's 1996 Finals was much worse... That's an irrefutable fact.. So your point is moot and my point is still valid:

We can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in the regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).

[Kblaze8855]

which player played better has nothing to do with which season they were in. it can point to why when you factor in experience but it doesn't change the bottom line.

if I say Jordan was better in the 93 playoffs than James Harden was in 2014 I'm right. It doesn't matter why and it doesn't matter which season in their respective careers it was. One is better than the other which is all that matters considering that's all I'm saying.

the rest his explanations but the explanations don't change whether the bottom line is right or not.

Pippen was better than Klay has ever been and that's just the way it is for now. If it's different in the future it's different in the future.

[GrapeApe]

Let's go by your logic..

The coaches said Klay was a top 12 player in his conference during November, December, and January, while Pippen was not.

And Klay was better in May and June too - in Klay's last playoff run (his 3rd playoff run), he helped his team win a championship, in part by being tough mentally.

Otoh, in Pippen's 3rd playoff run, he had one of the biggest chokes in the history of the game: 2 points on 1-10 in Game 7 of ECF.. This cost the Bulls their first championship, since the Pistons needed 7 games (and Pip's choke) to beat the Bulls, but only 6 games to beat Blazers..

So Klay was better in first 3 months of season, and also May and June - that's MOST of the season... See, I just destroyed you using your own horrible logic.

You have some kind of disorder. You are so all over the place it's unreal. We're talking about 1991 Pippen. If we're talking about Pippen and Thompson's 4th season and the fact that Pippen wasn't an all-star, why do you keep bringing up Pippen's 3rd season? You try to discredit Pippen for not being an all-star in 1991, despite the fact that you seemingly acknowledge he was better in 1991 than 1990, even though he was an all-star in 1990. You don't see the contradiction there? Was Pippen better overall in 1990 or 1991 (playoffs included)? Answer that question.

Why can't you address the fact that your all-star logic is utterly ridiculous? Why can't you stay on 1991, the year we're discussing? Why can't you address the fact that Pippen had a better overall season in 1991 than several all-stars? You didn't "destroy" my argument or my logic, you completely avoided it.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

And Pippen's 1996 Finals was much worse... That's an irrefutable fact.. So your point is moot and my point is still valid:

We can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in the regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).
How is it moot? I'm comparing (iirc) 24 year old Klay to 25 year old Pippen, each in their first finals. You're trying to compare 30 year old Pippen to 24 year old Klay because you're trying to advance your anti-Pippen agenda.

[3ball]

Pippen was better than Klay


Not relative to his competition - that's what the thread title says, but you guys must have attention deficit because none of you guys respond to the premise/title of the thread.





which player played better has nothing to do with which season they were in.


So rookie Pippen was better than current Klay?... Obviously not.. Experience matters and this is common knowledge..

We can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in the regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).

[SouBeachTalents]

Not relative to his competition - that's what the thread title says, but you guys must have attention deficit because none of you guys respond to the premise/title of the thread.



So rookie Pippen was better than current Klay?... Obviously not.. Experience matters and this is common knowledge..

We can't compare Pippen's 4th playoff run with Klay's 3rd... That would be dumb...

We can only compare Klay's 3rd playoff run to Pippen's 3rd.. And Klay's was better, in addition to being better relative to his competition than Pippen in the regular season (Klay was all-star, and Pip wasn't).

Maybe the dumbest thing that's even been posted on ISH

[Kblaze8855]

Maybe the dumbest thing that's even been posted on ISH

Which is why id call it trolling. He isnt that stupid...nobody is. You can compare any two players. Experience may be the reason one is better than another...but the better player is still better.

**** it...going to the movies.

I can only interact with this guy for so long before hed get banned just for refusing to stop making the same posts dozens of times.

[3ball]

Experience may be the reason one is better than another...but Pippen is still the better player.


Not relative to his competition - that's what the thread title says, but you guys are dumb af and/or have attention deficit because none of you guys respond to the premise/title of the thread.

And again, thru 3 playoff runs, Klay was better than Pippen while also being better relative to his competition in regular season (Klay was an all-star while Pippen was not).

[ShaqTwizzle]

Wow, you're a dummy.

Thompson last year was in his 4th season.
91 Pippen was in his 4th season.

THEY HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE.
:facepalm

[3ball]

Thompson last year was in his 4th season.
91 Pippen was in his 4th season.

THEY HAD THE SAME AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE.


Exactly - and Klay was considered a top 12 player in his conference by the coaches (he was an all-star), while Pippen was not..

Therefore, he was better relative to his competition than Pippen.. It's pretty simple, but a lot of delusional posters itt deny this simple fact.

And in the playoffs, Klay is better thru 3 playoff runs - he helped his team win a championship in his 3rd run, while Pippen had the goat choke and COST his team a championship in his 3rd run - you can't get more clearcut than that..

Pippen did well in his fourth playoff run, but maybe Klay will top that this year in HIS fourth run... After all, Klay has topped Pippen thru 3 playoff runs - and during the regular season, we know he was better relative to his competition, since he was an all-star while Pippen was not.

[Dragonyeuw]

Wtf man. I swear I experienced deja vu 4-5 times in this thread.

[GrapeApe]

Exactly - and Klay was considered a top 12 player in his conference by the coaches (he was an all-star), while Pippen was not.

Why do you keep saying that? Once again, Pippen was BETTER in 1991 than several all-stars. Who gives a shit about being selected as an all-star in early February. Your logic is ridiculous beyond comprehension. According to you, a player could average 35/8/7 from February through the playoffs, win a title and FMVP, and NOT be one of the 12 best players in the conference.

And btw, this has nothing to do with Pippen or any player in particular. It's about your absurd logic that being an all-star automatically means a player was better than a non all-star. By that same logic, Pippen's struggles in the 1990 playoffs are irrelevant because he was an all-star that season. Pippen was outstanding in the 1991 playoffs. Much better than Klay in 2015.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why do you keep saying that? Once again, Pippen was BETTER in 1991 than several all-stars. Who gives a shit about being selected as an all-star in early February. Your logic is ridiculous beyond comprehension. According to you, a player could average 35/8/7 from February through the playoffs, win a title and FMVP, and NOT be one of the 12 best players in the conference.

And btw, this has nothing to do with Pippen or any player in particular. It's about your absurd logic that being an all-star automatically means a player was better than a non all-star. By that same logic, Pippen's struggles in the 1990 playoffs are irrelevant because he was an all-star that season.

If he believes that, he has to admit current Kobe > '91 Pippen

[oarabbus]

3ball hates the 3 ball n name himself that. Obviously a self loathing person who hates his own existence


Post made by livingby3's :applause:

[3ball]

Why do you keep saying that?


Because it's a great, irrefutable argument - Klay was considered a top 12 player in his conference by the coaches (he was an all-star), while Pippen was not.

Again, don't blame me just because today's weaker competition and players allows Klay to be a top 12 player in his conference.





Pippen was outstanding in the 1991 playoffs. Much better than Klay in 2015.


1991 was Pippen's 4th playoff run, which Klay hasn't had yet.. Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year and he could easily do better than Pippen's 1991..

After all, Klay has already topped Pippen thru 3 playoff runs - and during the regular season, we know he was better relative to his competition, since he was an all-star while Pippen was not.

[Dragonyeuw]

****ing hell, so this entire argument is hinging on an arbitrary all-star selection. Can anyone recall why Pippen wasnt voted an allstar in 1991? Because he was quite clearly better as a player than in 90.

[tmacattack33]

3Ball calm down, Curry has to keep playing like this for another 50 games in order for any MJ comparisons to be had.

Do you really think he's gonna do that?

I doubt it.

And it also seems like in the playoffs, opponents can more easily stop Curry by creating good defensive strategies against Golden State's off-the-ball movement and picks, as a lot of Curry's shots come from these things.

Whereas teams had no hope of doing this against MJ in the playoffs, because MJ didn't need screens and off-the-ball movement to get open looks, Chicago could just give him the ball and watch him get himself a look. Defenses couldn't do sh*t against that.

So why not just chill and enjoy your favorite sport instead of trying to knock this whole generation down because you don't want Curry to become better than MJ?

[GrapeApe]

Because it's a great, irrefutable argument - Klay was considered a top 12 player in his conference by the coaches (he was an all-star), while Pippen was not.

Again, don't blame me just because today's weaker competition and players allows Klay to be a top 12 player in his conference.



1991 was Pippen's 4th playoff run, which Klay hasn't had yet.

Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year and he could easily do better than Pippen's 1991.. After all, Klay has already topped Pippen thru 3 playoff runs - and during the regular season, we know he was better relative to his competition, since he was an all-star while Pippen was not.

As always, you completely ignore my point while deflecting and changing the subject.

Answer this question. Why have there been all-NBA players who weren't all-stars? Here's another question. Would you prefer a player who is an all-star but averages 10/3/2 on 40% in the playoffs, or a player who isn't an all-star but averages 25/7/5 on 50% in the playoffs? I'll be waiting.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Klay's 4th playoff run will be this year and he could easily do better than Pippen's 1991..


Thats stupid.
If we are comparing how good they were by their 4th years we aren't gonna compare Pippen's playoff stats from his 4th year to Klay's from his 5th year.

4th year is 4th year.
The fact that Pippen started in a few more playoff games prior to his 4th run doesn't change that and doesn't make what you're suggesting reasonable at all.

A 4th year player is a 4th year player regardless if his team missed the playoffs in his Rookie season or not.

Pippen in 91 was a 4th year player and he was a much better playoff/finals performer then 4TH YEAR Klay.

[Smoke117]

****ing hell, so this entire argument is hinging on an arbitrary all-star selection. Can anyone recall why Pippen wasnt voted an allstar in 1991? Because he was quite clearly better as a player than in 90.

Possibly it has to do with the fact that he struggled (scoring wise) to get going early on. Through the first 15 games of the season in november:

14.9ppg 7.1rpg 6.1apg 2.7spg 1.5bpg 2.7topg .458%fg .679%ft (I still find it amazing how good Pippen was at every facet of the game)


I honestly don't even know why people even respond with any kind of seriousness to 3ball's post. All he has done in this thread is repeat himself over a dozen times and throw out stats without any context. Was Pippen in his prime in 96? Yes he was. He was also beat the hell up during that entire playoff run. He had a bad ankle sprain, a bruised knee, and a wrist sprain. His slashing was pretty much taken away from him...you know, his best scoring weapon. He still led the 96 playoffs in drating and defensive win shares...but I guess defense isn't that important to 3ball.

In 98 through the first four games when the bulls were up 3-1 and he was getting mvp talk he was averaging: 20.0ppg 6.8rpg 3.5apg 1.3spg .467%fg .318%3pt .818ft% with some of the greatest defense ever. He was a huge reason they were even up 3-1 in the first place. He hurts his back in game 5 and then can barely play in game 6 (he wouldn't even have been out there if it wasn't game 6 of the finals) and 3ball adds up the stats and thinks that's that. He makes andgar and swish look like casual MJ fans with the way he tries to tear down everyone who has ever played with Jordan.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Would anyone be surprised if 3ball had some form of autism? Seriously?

[dhsilv]

Would anyone be surprised if 3ball had some form of autism? Seriously?

I'd be surprised if he doesn't have some serious mental issues. I'm assuming he's a bagger at a grocery store still living with his parents in his 50's. It is the only thing that makes these types of posts possible to happen.

[swagga]

yo 3ball, why u mad pippen's D >> jordan's D? :roll:

[Fire Colangelo]

I will take this bait.

From 1991-1998 Scottie Pippen's got:

1990-91 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1991-92 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1992-93 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1993-94 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

^
If those are Klay's accolades by 2023, Klay > Pippen.

[3ball]

Would you prefer a player who is an all-star but averages 10/3/2 on 40% in the playoffs, or a player who isn't an all-star but averages 25/7/5 on 50% in the playoffs? I'll be waiting.


Your point is moot because Pippen was never that good - he never averaged 25 ppg in any playoffs or any playoffs series.

Do you realize that MJ averaged 10 ppg more than Pippen in virtually every single playoff series except two?... and in those two, MJ averaged 5 ppg and 8 ppg more than Pippen.

I think Pippen's career high playoff average alongside MJ is 22 ppg.

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen has never averaged 25 ppg in any playoffs or any playoffs series.

Do you realize that MJ averaged 10 ppg more than Pippen in virtually every single playoff series except two?... and in those two, MJ averaged 5 ppg and 8 ppg more than Pippen.

I think Pippen's career high playoff average alongside MJ is 22 ppg.

I also think Pippen's won more playoff games without Jordan than Jordan's done without Pippen

[3ball]

I will take this bait.

From 1991-1998 Scottie Pippen's got:

1990-91 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1991-92 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1991-92 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1992-93 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1992-93 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1993-94 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1997-98 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

^
If those are Klay's accolades by 2023, Klay > Pippen.
Y'all dumb as hell - this thread isn't about who's better - it's about who is better relative to their competition thru their 4th year.

That's what the thread title says, but you guys are dumb as ****, so you can't understand that type of nuance - none of you guys responded to the premise/title of the thread.

But here are the facts - thru 3 playoff runs, Klay was better than Pippen while also being better relative to his competition in regular season (Klay was an all-star while Pippen was not).

that is all

[TomBrady]

Your point is moot because Pippen was never that good - he never averaged 25 ppg in any playoffs or any playoffs series.

Do you realize that MJ averaged 10 ppg more than Pippen in virtually every single playoff series except two?... and in those two, MJ averaged 5 ppg and 8 ppg more than Pippen.

I think Pippen's career high playoff average alongside MJ is 22 ppg.
Magic Johnson never averaged 25 PPG over an entire playoffs. I guess he was never that good either. Just good enough to win in a decade where Jordan accomplished nothing, the NBA's strongest decade.

[3ball]

Magic Johnson never averaged 25 PPG over an entire playoffs. I guess he was never that good either.


Weak troll.. Magic is the all-time leader in APG for regular season and playoffs... by a healthy margin over stockton.






Just good enough to win in a decade where Jordan accomplished nothing, the NBA's strongest decade.


Jordan had goat stats during the "strongest decade":

32.6 ppg.. 6.1 rpg.. 5.9 apg.. 2.8 spg.. 1.3 bpg.. 50.3 fg.. 58.9 ts.. 29.6 PER


This included being scoring champ, MVP and DPOY all in the same season..

So your post was just another weak troll.. You should step your game up - your posts have been weak ever since getting owned in the other thread regarding the goat, Joe Montana.
.

[TomBrady]

Nope, you said that Pippen wasn't good because he never averaged 25+ PPG for a playoffs. I'm just applying your logic.

Joe Montana is a respectable #2, he's a great guy. But he's not the GOAT.

[3ball]

Joe Montana is a respectable #2, he's a great guy. But he's not the GOAT.


Montana destroys Brady - Montana didn't need to cheat to achieve his superior accolades

[Smoke117]

Weak troll.. Magic is the all-time leader in APG for regular season and playoffs... by a healthy margin over stockton.

Stockton was also 40 and not 31 when he retired. Not to say he was better, but 3balls reasoning is moronic as usual. Magic also averaged only .7 more apg for his career in the regular season... that's not a "healthy margin". Stick to your Jordan stats and gifs. And why haven't you responded to my earlier post?...probably because you never respond to any post that calls out your bullshit.

[TomBrady]

That's cute. He just needed Jerry Rice, Stickum (http://yourteamcheats.com/SF#Stickumgate-1995), and more (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/joe-montana--deflate-gate--no-big-deal---his-49ers-used-illegal-silicone-155630060.html).

You've previously admitted to not liking/knowing nothing about football, please see yourself out.

[3ball]

Magic also averaged only .7 more apg for his career... that's not a "healthy margin".


Magic averaged 12.35 apg in playoffs compared to Stockton's 10.10.

That's a full 2 apg more than Stockton in the playoffs

[GrapeApe]

Your point is moot because Pippen was never that good - he never averaged 25 ppg in any playoffs or any playoffs series.

Do you realize that MJ averaged 10 ppg more than Pippen in virtually every single playoff series except two?... and in those two, MJ averaged 5 ppg and 8 ppg more than Pippen.

I think Pippen's career high playoff average alongside MJ is 22 ppg.

My point isn't moot, and I specifically said it had nothing to do with Pippen or any player in particular. It's about your absurdly idiotic logic that a player being an all-star automatically means they're better than a non all-star. By that logic, anything a player does after the all-star game is irrelevant. You keep saying "Klay was an all-star, Pippen was not". Who gives a shit. Pippen's 1991 season AS A WHOLE, not just from Nov-Jan, was better than Klay's in 2015, AND better than several all-stars in 1991.

However, you contradict yourself by criticizing Pippen's 1990 playoff performance, a season in which he WAS an all-star. Answer this question please. Was Pippen better in 1990 or 1991? (the season as a whole, playoffs included)

You also didn't answer my other question. How can a non all-star make an all-NBA team?

[dhsilv]

Why are people still talking to freaking 3 ball? Guys he's a moron beyond words! Stop fighting someone who can't even make a reasonable argument.

[kentatm]

To be honest I agree with OP. Scottie Pippen is the most overrated player of all time. Scottie Pipppen wouldn't of made one all star game if he didn't play with Jordan much like how Klay Thompson wouldn't of made one all star game with out playing with Steph Curry.

Scottie Pippen is around a Klay Thompson level and let's get this straight, it's not a good level to be at. These guys are journymen role players who got thrust into the limelight because of their trancendent superstar teammates(CUrry and Jordan).

Scottie Pippen and Klay thompson are probably the most overrated, lucky players of all time. Take them off their respective teams and they are just another player in the Association.


https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[warriorfan]

Montana destroys Brady - Montana didn't need to cheat to achieve his superior accolades

Brady not only cheated, but he also did it in a weak era with rules favoring the pass oriented offense.

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

Klay had 7pts on 2-11 shooting in the All-Star game... Not much of an "All-Star" performance was it. :roll:


Based on 3ball's logic... This shows that Klay really wasn't in the top 12 players in his Conference... Also take into account that there was also injury replacement players... Klay was more or less merely a top 20 player in his own conference rather than a top 12 player. So I guess 3ball's argument is non valid.

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

Klay certainly has regressed this season... As where Pippen always progressed each and every season during the Bulls championship runs.

Actually... statistically speaking Klay is no longer even the 2nd best player on his own team... He's the 3rd best player on the Warriors. Curry being number 1 and Green being number 2 of course.

Pippen has always been the number 2 or number 1 best player on those Bull's championship teams.

Klay is the better shooter... But Pip's game was overall much more superior to Klay's game.

Klay has already peaked... He's nothing more than the 3rd best guy on the team now. The Warriors can replace him with any average player and they'd still be just as good... where as Pippen's contributions to those Championship Bulls teams could have never of been replaced so easily.

[TomBrady]

Drbay not nlyo haected, but eh also ddi it in a awek aer itwh lruse faovrngi the sasp orenited nosffee.
Can anyone translate this? A peasant to GOAT translation would be great.

[Straight_Ballin]

Montana destroys Brady - Montana didn't need to cheat to achieve his superior accolades

I feel so sad for poor kids that never got to witness real GOAT greatness. The 90s were GOAT.

Montana/Rice
Gretzky
Ken Griffey Jr.
MJ

A damn shame really that we are watching inferior players play sports despite having all these advancements in medicine and training. Just goes to show that people cared more about being great back then. These days coaches give kids a big trophy for losing.

[SouBeachTalents]

I feel so sad for poor kids that never got to witness real GOAT greatness. The 90s were GOAT.

Montana/Rice
Gretzky
Ken Griffey Jr.
MJ

A damn shame really that we are watching inferior players play sports despite having all these advancements in medicine and training. Just goes to show that people cared more about being great back then. These days coaches give kids a big trophy for losing.

:facepalm

Even Gretzky achieved most of his accomplishments in the '80's

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I love Griffey but he's not in the GOAT discussion. Pre-roids Bonds was better than Griffey by a solid margin, though Griffey is one of my all-time favourite players.

Gretzky was much more a player of the 1980s, not the 1990s.

Did Montana not win three of his four Super Bowls in the 1980s? Might have been all four, I'm not sure.

1980s are by far the greatest decade of basketball.

1980s > 1990s in sports.

[SouBeachTalents]

I love Griffey but he's not in the GOAT discussion. Pre-roids Bonds was better than Griffey by a solid margin, though Griffey is one of my all-time favourite players.

Gretzky was much more a player of the 1980s, not the 1990s.

Did Montana not win three of his four Super Bowls in the 1980s? Might have been all four, I'm not sure.

1980s are by far the greatest decade of basketball.

1980s > 1990s in sports.

Montana & Gretzky won all of their championships and MVP's in the '80's

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Montana & Gretzky won all of their championships and MVP's in the '80's
:lol

Straight ********'s shtick was just destroyed.

[CelticBaller]

Brady not only cheated, but he also did it in a weak era with rules favoring the pass oriented offense.
And Montana did it in a no salary cap era, in which his main WR and linemen used stickum
:roll:

[warriorfan]

And Montana did it in a no salary cap era, in which his main WR and linemen used stickum
:roll:

pretty sure tuck rule and not letting WR's get hit over the middle and breathing on the QB is roughing the passer is way worse then anything you can dig up on the 80's...

[warriorfan]

I love Griffey but he's not in the GOAT discussion. Pre-roids Bonds was better than Griffey by a solid margin, though Griffey is one of my all-time favourite players.

Gretzky was much more a player of the 1980s, not the 1990s.

Did Montana not win three of his four Super Bowls in the 1980s? Might have been all four, I'm not sure.

1980s are by far the greatest decade of basketball.

1980s > 1990s in sports.

I'm glad you finally came around regarding Griffey and Bonds. :cheers:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I'm glad you finally came around regarding Griffey and Bonds. :cheers:
That was kenneth. :lol

I don't like Bonds, never have never will, but I don't think I've ever posted that Griffey was a better player. Pre-roids Bonds could have gone down as the GOAT before he chose to torpedo that. Griffey was always more popular but Bonds was a better player.

[warriorfan]

That was kenneth. :lol

I don't like Bonds, never have never will, but I don't think I've ever posted that Griffey was a better player. Pre-roids Bonds could have gone down as the GOAT before he chose to torpedo that. Griffey was always more popular but Bonds was a better player.

rip kenneth :oldlol:

Hmmm, yeah maybe you were just posting stuff about Griffey and kenneth was the one saying that he was better than Bonds. But I basically agree with everything you said there except that Bonds is still the GOAT in my opinion even if he did use Performance Enhancing Drugs; considering that more than half of the best players of the league were using at the time. Bonds was very late to the dope game if you remember, he watched inferior players such as Sammy Sosa (career 20/20 guy) and Mark Mcguire (1 dimensional player) surpass him while blatantly cheating and it made him extremely angry (Well documented in the book Game of Shadows, very good book regarding Barry Bonds, BALCO, and doping in professional sports and Olympic competitions). He doped to even out the playing field, not to get an unfair advantage. This is a whole another thread though...

[CelticBaller]

pretty sure tuck rule and not letting WR's get hit over the middle and breathing on the QB is roughing the passer is way worse then anything you can dig up on the 80's...
stickum? lol ****** literally used illegal substances to help them hold unto players and catch balls

and the 9ers where stacking players like the yankees. Brady has done it in an era where back to back superbowls trips are almost impossible

[GrapeApe]

And Montana did it in a no salary cap era, in which his main WR and linemen used stickum
:roll:

No salary cap? Stickum? I'm of the belief that Montana is overrated, but those are certainly not among the reasons.

Dan Marino >> Montana & Brady

Marino revolutionized the QB position. He made throws that no other QB had ever made and he made it look easy. Quickest release in history. He basically invented the back shoulder throw. He put up video game numbers in a league where you weren't penalized for breathing on the receiver and QB's were fair game to get drilled. Prime Marino in today's league with today's rules would be ridiculous.

[CelticBaller]

No salary cap? Stickum? I'm of the belief that Montana is overrated, but those are certainly not among the reasons.

Dan Marino >> Montana & Brady

Marino revolutionized the QB position. He made throws that no other QB had ever made and he made it look easy. Quickest release in history. He basically invented the back shoulder throw. He put up video game numbers in a league where you weren't penalized for breathing on the receiver and QB's were fair game to get drilled. Prime Marino in today's league with today's rules would be ridiculous.
My point was that both jerry rice and montana have admitted to cheating, so to use the "brady is a cheater" argument is dumb considering your GOAT is one of the biggest out there. Plus salary cap helped the 9ers keep a roster where it wouldn't even be possible in this current era

You say all of that yet let out that Marino was a statue in the pocket. In talent alone Elway has him beat, and Rodgers is also ahead of him.

Not only that Marino only put out like 3 beast seasons, so IDK what makes you think he could replicate that, most likely he would be up there with Brees right now.

[SouBeachTalents]

No salary cap? Stickum? I'm of the belief that Montana is overrated, but those are certainly not among the reasons.

Dan Marino >> Montana & Brady

Marino revolutionized the QB position. He made throws that no other QB had ever made and he made it look easy. Quickest release in history. He basically invented the back shoulder throw. He put up video game numbers in a league where you weren't penalized for breathing on the receiver and QB's were fair game to get drilled. Prime Marino in today's league with today's rules would be ridiculous.

Montana & Brady were on better teams than Marino, no question about that. But they were both, especially Montana, superior playoff performers than Marino was. Marino had a below average-mediocre game almost every postseason run of his career. Montana was Jordan-esque in the Super Bowl, never even throwing a pick in 4 games. And check out his Super Bowl runs in '88 & '89, Marino has nothing on that

[GrapeApe]

To the posts above, and I know this thread has gone very OT, but Marino was always among the least sacked QB's, his defenses were often abysmal, and his playoff struggles were largely the result of zero running game. Montana himself has even said that if Marino was in his position he'd have won multiple superbowls. I always felt the Dolphins completely wasted his abilities.

Part of that is because he was ahead of his time. As I said before, he revolutinized the position. He was the first QB to routinely make many of throws we see today. He wasn't mobile, but his elite pocket prescence and quick release made him nearly impossible to sack. I've never seen a QB process the game faster. He would absolutely shred today's flag football league.

Btw, yes I'm biased.

[Asukal]

fvck you 3ball! stfu with your nonsense. :biggums:

[3ball]

fvck you 3ball! stfu with your nonsense. :biggums:
I never said Klay > Pip.

I said Klay > Pip thru 4 seasons RELATIVE TO THEIR COMPETITION.

'But I know that's too nuanced for you to understand... :rolleyes: :facepalm

But it's true - in his 4th season, Klay was a top 12 player in his conference (all-star), while 4th year Pippen was not.

And in last year's playoffs (Klay's 3rd playoff run), Klay helped his team win a championship, while Pippen COST his team the championship during his 3rd playoff run (he had the greatest choke of all time).

Of course, people want to compare Pippen's 4th and 5th playoff runs to Klay's 3rd playoff run, which isn't fair - Klay hasn't played in his 4th playoffs yet - that will come this year, and he might do better than Pip did - we don't know yet.

But thru 3 playoff runs, Klay was better than Pippen while also being better relative to his competition in regular season (Klay was an all-star while Pippen was not).

[Simple Jack]

Why are you incapable of understanding that being 1 of 12 players selected to the all-star game doesn't mean you are one of the 12 best players in the conference? It's not a "nuanced" concept. It's pretty straightforward.

Are you this stubborn and annoying when discussing basketball amongst your friends (doubtful you have any now that I think about it) in real life?

[3ball]

Why are you incapable of understanding that being 1 of 12 players selected to the all-star game doesn't mean you are one of the 12 best players in the conference?


Being an all-star GENERALLY means you're one of the top 12 players - but to be specific, it means you're a top 3 player at your position in the conference.

It's not a "nuanced" concept. It's pretty straightforward.

Are you this stubborn and annoying when discussing basketball amongst your friends (doubtful you have any now that I think about it) in real life?

[SouBeachTalents]

Being an all-star GENERALLY means you're one of the top 12 players - but to be specific, it means you're a top 3 player at your position in the conference.

It's not a "nuanced" concept. It's pretty straightforward.

Are you this stubborn and annoying when discussing basketball amongst your friends (doubtful you have any now that I think about it) in real life?

So has Kobe been top 3 in the conference at his position the past 3 years?

[TommyGriffin]

Marino and Montana are both better than Brady. Brady would of failed in the 80's.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Marino and Montana are both better than Brady. Brady would of failed in the 80's.
Brady couldn't of done anything you illiterate ****.

[TommyGriffin]

Brady couldn't of done anything you illiterate ****.

What?

[3ball]

.
From wikipedia:



"Each coach selects two guards, three frontcourt players and two wild cards, with each selected player ranked in order of preference within each category. If a multi-position player is to be selected, coaches are encouraged to vote for the player at the position that is "most advantageous for the All-Star team", regardless of where the player is listed on the All-Star ballot or the position he is listed in box scores."


As you can see, coaches don't vote in 1 SF, 1 PF and 1 Center... They vote for the top 3 frontcourt players - they also have 2 wildcard selections.

Accorrdingly, 4th year Pippen was NOT a top 3 frontcourt player in his conference and he was not worthy of a wildcard spot either...

Otoh, Klay was worthy of one of the two guard spots or a wildcard spot... Again, Klay was CLEARLY better relative to his competition than Pippen..

Don't blame me for Pippen's era being stronger, which precluded him from being a top player, while Klay's weaker era allows him to be a top player.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
From wikipedia:



"Each coach selects two guards, three frontcourt players and two wild cards, with each selected player ranked in order of preference within each category. If a multi-position player is to be selected, coaches are encouraged to vote for the player at the position that is "most advantageous for the All-Star team", regardless of where the player is listed on the All-Star ballot or the position he is listed in box scores."


As you can see, coaches don't vote in 1 SF, 1 PF and 1 Center... They vote for the top 3 frontcourt players - they also have 2 wildcard selections.

Accorrdingly, 4th year Pippen was NOT a top 3 frontcourt player in his conference and he was not worthy of a wildcard spot either...

Otoh, Klay was worthy of one of the two guard spots or a wildcard spot... Again, Klay was CLEARLY better relative to his competition than Pippen..

Don't blame me for Pippen's era being stronger, which precluded him from being a top player, while Klay's weaker era allows him to be a top player.

Don't duck the question, has Kobe been top 3 in the conference at his position the past 3 seasons?

[3ball]

:rolleyes:

[riseagainst]

lol... people still hating on Brady even after him pulling off the greatest comeback in Superbowl history last year against the best defense in the NFL, the LoB. A type of defense Montana, or Marino, never faced.

Tom Brady, from every facet of football, is the GOAT footballer, and definitively the GOAT QB. It's not even close now that he's been to 6 and won 4 and holds all the playoff records and superbowl records. No other QB even has an argument if you look at it objectively and holistically.

[3ball]

From wikipedia:



"Each coach selects two guards, three frontcourt players and two wild cards, with each selected player ranked in order of preference within each category. If a multi-position player is to be selected, coaches are encouraged to vote for the player at the position that is "most advantageous for the All-Star team", regardless of where the player is listed on the All-Star ballot or the position he is listed in box scores."


As you can see, coaches don't vote in 1 SF, 1 PF and 1 Center... They vote for the top 3 frontcourt players - they also have 2 wildcard selections.

Accordingly, 4th year Pippen was NOT a top 3 frontcourt player in his conference and he was not worthy of a wildcard spot either...

Otoh, Klay was worthy of one of the two guard spots or a wildcard spot... Again, Klay was CLEARLY better relative to his competition than Pippen..

Don't blame me for Pippen's era being stronger, which precluded him from being a top player, while Klay's weaker era allows him to be a top player.




Don't duck the question, has Kobe been top 3 in the conference at his position the past 3 seasons?



My post and this entire thread has only referred to BENCH PLAYERS, who are voted in by coaches, so your question is irrelevant.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Wow, thanks for deleting and re-posting something no one cares about yet again you sack of shit.

[Sarcastic]

In his last 5 games he's averaging 30.3 ppg on 54.8 fg% with 3.8 rpg and 3.3 apg.

Not bad for a supposed role player.