Handchecking is alive and well

[TheImmortal]

https://youtu.be/EBenEd4479o?t=169

http://i.imgur.com/F63cQnW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nMz58sI.jpg

[3ball]

.
Here's the NBA's official statements on hand-checking:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

NBA: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

NBA: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

NBA: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

NBA: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.


There it is in black and white (and red).. But keep denying it and make up your own reality instead.. :confusedshrug: :hammerhead:

[TheImmortal]

:confusedshrug: :hammerhead:
They can make all the rules they want.. if they don't enforce supposed rules (ala Travels), then it don't mean all that much. We know refs are by in large ******s.. come on now.

[bukowski81]

They can make all the rules they want.. if they don't enforce supposed rules (ala Travels), then it don't mean all that much. We know refs are by in large ******s.. come on now.

If those two pics is the best evidence you could find that "handchecking is alive and well", then yea, handchecking is dead

[warriorfan]

Curry gets held all the time

[ClipperRevival]

Hand checking is more about putting your hands/arms on the offensive player when he has his back turned to the defender, not in the scenario you showed above where the offensive player is facing up. It's hard to hand check an offensive player who is facing up on you. Handchecking is more about how you can control the offensive player on the perimeter and when they are bringing the ball up court. The rules prohibit this. It's a different era of rules.

[3ball]

Hand checking is more about putting your hands/arms on the offensive player when he has his back turned to the defender, not in the scenario you showed above where the offensive player is facing up.



^^^^ Not true at all - hand-checking included putting your hands on the ballhandler regardless of whether the ballhandler was facing or not..

Here's some examples of hand-checking when the ballhander is facing - these are all fouls in today's game:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/Iz_v-D.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/ePuSyn.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/V2-pAN.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/7NXaIu.gif

[GIF REACTION]

I've been saying this for years now. Hand-checking is completely legal in the playoffs anyways. The rule is really a null-factor. They called it extremely tight for 2 years, along with 3 seconds in the key... But like any rule, the interpretation changes and they don't call it as much. Go watch any of the Celtics big three playoff runs, Golden state's last season, or Memphis. Loads of hand-checking.

Kobe vs the celtics in 2008 I believe was particularly hand-checking

[3ball]

I've been saying this for years now. Hand-checking is completely legal in the playoffs anyways. The rule is really a null-factor. They called it extremely tight for 2 years, along with 3 seconds in the key... But like any rule, the interpretation changes and they don't call it as much. Go watch any of the Celtics big three playoff runs, Golden state's last season, or Memphis. Loads of hand-checking.

Kobe vs the celtics in 2008 I believe was particularly hand-checking

you can't show me a single play where kobe faced hand-checking like this:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif


so stfu with your delusional bullshit...

hand-checking is illegal in today's game, which means there's league-mandated SPACE between defender and ballhandler.. this inflates the stats of all perimeter players in today's game - deal with it.

[Smoke117]

so stfu with your delusional bullshit...

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/13953783092_54352f67f8_o.jpg

[3ball]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/13953783092_54352f67f8_o.jpg
Name one thing I've said that is delusional.

I'll wait - you have nothing

[3ball]

Hand checking is more about putting your hands/arms on the offensive player when he has his back turned to the defender, not in the scenario you showed above where the offensive player is facing up.



You're wrong here - hand-checking mainly occurred WHILE THE PLAYER IS TRYING TO DRIVE - this type of contact is illegal today:


https://media.giphy.com/media/t99KQtLZZeVS8/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-02-2015/p6jsvL.gif


The hand-checking that occurred while a ballhandler was trying to drive is what prevented penetration the most.. So I don't know where you got the idea that hand-checking only happened when the guy's back is turned.
.

[TheImmortal]

You're wrong here - hand-checking mainly occurred WHILE THE PLAYER IS TRYING TO DRIVE - this type of contact is illegal today:


https://media.giphy.com/media/t99KQtLZZeVS8/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-02-2015/p6jsvL.gif


The hand-checking that occurred while a ballhandler was trying to drive is what prevented penetration the most.. So I don't know where you got the idea that hand-checking only happened when the guy's back is turned.
.
All those gifs shows how ineffective handchecking was... simple change of direction causes players to be thrown off balance.. you do realize that right?

BTW, the top gif is almost identifical to the video and screenshot in the OP.

[mehyaM24]

All those gifs shows how ineffective handchecking was... simple change of direction causes players to be thrown off balance.. you do realize that right?

BTW, the top gif is almost identifical to the video and screenshot in the OP.

so no handchecking >>> handchecking?

this forum :facepalm

[Bankaii]

so no handchecking >>> handchecking?

this forum :facepalm
You're reading comprehension is shit, he never said that.

I'm pretty sure he was hinting at the fact that handcheckecking has become drastically overrated because talented offensive players aren't fazed by it.

It's more of an annoyance than an actual good defensive scheme to stop someone from scoring.

[jstern]

There's a difference between being allowed to hand check, and doing it without hesitation on every play you want. And hand checking by mistake while trying not to, on one individual play, and the ref missing it.

Don't be dumb.

[mehyaM24]

You're reading comprehension is shit, he never said that.

I'm pretty sure he was hinting at the fact that handcheckecking has become drastically overrated because talented offensive players aren't fazed by it.

It's more of an annoyance than an actual good defensive scheme to stop someone from scoring.

if you're "pretty sure", meaning you aren't 100% certain, why would my comprehension be "shit", you dumb ape?

and no, the abolition of handchecking plus a number of physicality aspects have made perimeter scoring FAR easier. nobody that understands the game would suggest otherwise.

[GIF REACTION]

if you're "pretty sure", meaning you aren't 100% certain, why would my comprehension be "shit", you dumb ape?

and no, the abolition of handchecking plus a number of physicality aspects have made perimeter scoring FAR easier. nobody that understands the game would suggest otherwise.
Your overrating hand-checking. It still happens every game. Not a big deal.

[ClipperRevival]

3ball,

Re-read my sentence. I said handchecking was "more" about putting your arms on a player who has his back turned to you and didn't state it was exclusively limited to this situation. But it's primarily about the scenario I described: being able to slow down the ball handler in the perimeter with that extended arm and slow down and sometimes funnel him to the direction you want him to go. What also doesn't get mentioned is that guys were able to just body up guys all the way down the court and not get called for a foul as long as you weren't being overly aggressive. That's something you can't do today as much.

But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you. That's bad D in that scenario unless if you feel confident he can't get by you. Sure, given the different rules back then, you could be more physical with guys driving. But the real benefit of hanchecking does lie in the perimeter and how you are able to slow down/control that offensive player.

[ClipperRevival]

But of course I have to stress that the league allowed so much more physicality back then and that clearly benefits the defender. And some of the stuff you are talking about like being alowed to be more physical for guys driving is testamemt to this fact. But that lies more in the genral allowance of physicality and not hand checking specifically.

[3ball]

But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you. That's bad D in that scenario


This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...

Hand-checking makes it harder for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.

you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up

you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, beta posters like sdot thadon or flpiii

[ClipperRevival]

This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...

Hand-checking makes it harder for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.

you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up

you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, beta posters like sdot thadon or flpiii

You do know the difference between the TT position and driving right? Like i said, if your man is in the TT position and you are close enough to him where your extended arm can touch his waist, that is very close. Too close for comfort in most situations unless if you fear his outside shot or you feel confident in your ability to keep him in front of you. In most cases, defenders stay further away when up against the TT stance because you need to defend the drive also.

Like i said, physicality and hand checking kind of go hand in hand. The line between what is what can be blurred in the quick action of the game. Being physical against the drive for example. If you still don't get what i am saying, i could care less with your narcissist ass. This is really much ado about nothing.

[Cocaine80s]

Handchecking is overrated as ****


Literally doesnt affect players at all

[3ball]

3ball,

I said handchecking was "more" about putting your arms on a player who has his back turned to you and didn't state it was exclusively limited to this situation.



Doesn't matter - you're dead wrong in saying that hand-checking is "more" about when a player has his back turned to you.

Hand-checking is equally prevalent when ballhandlers are facing and it's MOST prevalent and effective during the act of driving, like the gif below (this is a foul in today's game):


https://media.giphy.com/media/TJPk9OncuzZoQ/giphy.gif






But in the TT stance, if you are close enough to extend your arm on the offensive player and touch his waist, you are way too close and your man will drive by you.


This is flatly false and makes no sense - when a defender is close enough to extend his arm and touch the ballhandler's waist, HE'S HAND-CHECKING...

Hand-checking makes it harder for the ballhandler to get by the defender, not easier.. :rolleyes:

More importantly - players are taught to be 2-3 feet away since it's close enough to contest a jumper but not too close (bodied up chest-to-chest) where the offensive player can spin off you or do a swim thru/blow-by move.

it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

[3ball]

In most cases, defenders stay further away when up against the TT stance because you need to defend the drive also.


This is the opposite of the truth..

The BEST way to defend a TT player is to be within hand-checking distance - any further and you give up easy jumpers like today's game... any closer and the offensive player can spin off you or blow by.

And again, when you're within hand-checking distance - YOU CAN HAND-CHECK!!!... which makes it harder to drive.

it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

[ClipperRevival]

Freaken narcissist. Arguing much ado about nothing. You take words and take them to mean absolutes, not open minded. Like I said man, can you get close up where you can extend your arm and touch a guy's waist off the TT stance? Of course. But you leave yourself in a vulnerable position for the drive. If you fear a guy's shooting, you do that. Or if you feel confidennt in your foot speed. Again, stop confusing the drive with the TT stance. Once a guy drives, that's a different story. Like I said man, much ado about nothing. You are arguing just for the sake of arguing. You should loosen up.

[3ball]

can you get close up where you can extend your arm and touch a guy's waist off the TT stance?


^^^^ that's hand-checking.

When a player hand-checks, they aren't more susceptible to the drive - they're less susceptible.

Now if a player BODIES a perimeter ballhandler or TT player, they are susceptible to getting blown by or spun off of... You'd know this if you could ball.

Again, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

[ClipperRevival]

^^^^ that's hand-checking.

When a player hand-checks, they aren't more susceptible to the drive - they're less susceptible.

Now if a player BODIES a perimeter ballhandler or TT player, they are susceptible to getting blown by or spun off of... You'd know this if you could ball.

Again, it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

Well dumbass. If you are able to put your extended arms on a player's waist when he is in a legit TT stance, (as in fully facing you, knees bent, upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches further behind his head), you are essentially bodying him up. I mean do you even really know a LEGIT TT stance, what it looks like and what it entails? I don't think you do. I didn't say you can't hand check off the TT stance, just that it's an aggressive move. Sometimes the situation calls for it. But stop thinking in absolutes you narcissist. Basketball isn't a rigid game, it's a free flowing game where different situation calls for different things. If you had grasped this concept, we would not be arguing about nothing. But you thinking in absolutes, we end up here.

P.S. I love how you copy and paste that last sentence.

[3ball]

If you are able to put your extended arms on a player's waist when he is in a legit TT stance, (as in fully facing you, knees bent, upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches further behind his head), you are essentially bodying him up.


It's pretty ridiculous that I have to describe how the game works to some new fan who has never played and learns the game from books and tv.

But I'm a benevolent guy, so I don't mind helping out the ignorant:

You're forgetting that the defender is ALSO bent over and in a stance - so it cancels out and the defender is NOT bodying the TT player when hand-checking the waist

A man's arm is 3+ feet long.. So if a defender can reach out and touch a TT player, he isn't bodying him.

Of course, if you had ever played, you wouldn't be making such a dumb, easily-disproven argument.





P.S. I love how you copy and paste that last sentence.


Of course you do - it's true and hits home.. Here - I'll paste the truth again:

it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

[ClipperRevival]

It's pretty ridiculous that I have to describe how the game works to some new fan who has never played and learns the game from books and tv.

But I'm a benevolent guy, so I don't mind helping out the ignorant:

A man's arm is 3+ feet long.. So if a defender can reach out and touch a TT player, he isn't bodying him.

Of course, if you had ever played, you wouldn't be making such a dumb, easily-disproven argument.



Of course you do - it's true and hits home.. Here - I'll paste the truth again:

it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about and are just making stuff up - you sound like one of those ignorant, passive-aggressive, scared posters like sdot thadon or flpiii who are trying to learn about previous eras 20 years after the fact.

"A man's arm is 3+ feet long." :facepalm :roll:

No wonder you think it's feasible to hand check out of a legit TT stance. You are completely ignorant of the human anatomy.

[3ball]

upper body leaning forward where his waist is a good 20-25 inches


It's funny how much you want to stick to your guns, despite being so obviously wrong.

You're forgetting that the defender is ALSO bent over and in a stance, so it cancels out and the defender is NOT bodying the TT player when hand-checking the waist

I'm going to show you some gifs.. Prepare to be ethered

[3ball]

https://media.giphy.com/media/116RdkVVQK64Fi/giphy.gif


c'mon prometheus... how many times have i ethered you now... it's gotta be like, 4 or 5 times now.. remember how you didn't think lebron dominated the ball?... lol
.

[sd3035]

Jordan was the most coddled player in history, he wasn't even allowed to be defended

[3ball]

Now that I ethered your argument about hand-checking a TT player, let's get back to your original erroneous point about how hand-checking occurs mostly when the ballhandler's back is turned.

That's obviously wrong - hand-checking is equally prevalent when ballhandlers are facing and it's MOST prevalent and effective during the act of driving, like the gifs below (these are fouls in today's game):


https://media.giphy.com/media/TJPk9OncuzZoQ/giphy.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/t99KQtLZZeVS8/giphy.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-02-2015/p6jsvL.gif

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/11-13-2015/p8lMrn.gif


Jordan was coddled the most of anyone - he wasn't even allowed to be defended




The defense Curry faces is like flag football by comparison - no touch, hands-off, league-mandated space between players on perimeter:


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/12-03-2015/TgIP3N.gif


No comparison

[Da_Realist]

Isiah Thomas: “Listen, we’ve had great offensive players before in this league. I played against two of the best — Michael Jordan and Kareem. Michael would get 30 and 40 against us, but I don’t remember him getting them without a hand in his face.

The rules favor the offense now; that’s the way it is in all sports. That’s what people want to see. How good would Larry Bird shoot with the way defense is played now, especially on the perimeter?

I played on some of the best defensive teams ever, my whole life — high school, college, pros — when you could actually get close to the ball. Now, with the rules being what they are, you have too many people can’t play defense, make no attempt. Right now perimeter defense in the N.B.A. is kind of the worst I’ve ever seen, an absolute joke."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sports/basketball/golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-christmas-day.html

[Blue&Orange]

Isiah Thomas: “Listen, we’ve had great offensive players before in this league. I played against two of the best — Michael Jordan and Kareem. Michael would get 30 and 40 against us, but I don’t remember him getting them without a hand in his face.

The rules favor the offense now; that’s the way it is in all sports. That’s what people want to see. How good would Larry Bird shoot with the way defense is played now, especially on the perimeter?

I played on some of the best defensive teams ever, my whole life — high school, college, pros — when you could actually get close to the ball. Now, with the rules being what they are, you have too many people can’t play defense, make no attempt. Right now perimeter defense in the N.B.A. is kind of the worst I’ve ever seen, an absolute joke."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sports/basketball/golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-christmas-day.html
Well the other day i say Kirk Hinrich beat his defender because he can't touch him, and then slowly proceed to the paint and slowly make a layup. I loled. It's not just that you can't do nothing to perimeter players, it's also the constant emptiness of the paint.


Step 1 draft athletic players in hope that somehow they learn to play the game.
step 2 they can't
step 3 change the rules so that is easier to score.

[GIF REACTION]

Many scrubs averaged big numbers in the 80's and 90's

Handchecking has ALWAYS been a foul... Since the 1979 rule introduction

They changed the reinterpretation in 2004 off season after the 2004 finals where Detroit beat Los Angeles

After that reinterpretation, they explicitly called physical contact on the perimeter tight, as well as stringent calling of the 3 in the key. They called it tight for 2-3 seasons as is with any new rule... After time the referees lax, the style to win changes and the interpretation changes. It wasn't until the 2008 Celtics came, that ideas on defense and winning changed.

Just as they no-called Illegal defense in the late 80's and 90's, they no-call physical contact on the perimeter... Even though it has always been this way. Watch any Golden State Warriors game, or Spurs, or Cleveland. There are plenty of handchecking moments. Watch the 2008 NBA finals in its entirety. Kobe got handchecked as much as Jordan ever did.

We haven't even talked about how much better team defenses have become. The traditional bigman became redundant because there was no rule change on the inside, the game has always been the same at the rim. Bigs have always been at the brunt of officiating. Only except, defenses can now move around, flood the strong side, and neutralize the offense and talent of a traditional big. The post up can only work today, given it has full court awareness and willing passing. The Cavs are a perfect example of this.

Cliffs: Handchecking has always been a foul, the rule was called tight for a couple seasons then as a different style of winning came about, the referees changed their interpretations. Of course this is pretty much all irrelevant in the playoffs anyways.

PS: James Harden isn't evidence of anything. Star players have ALWAYS gotten freebees at the line.

[GIF REACTION]

I mean we can talk about how 3 in the key is completely irrelevant today... Paint camping is pretty much legal... Here's a recent Mark Cuban story;

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14333439/dallas-mavericks-owner-mark-cuban-criticizes-officials-not-calling-defensive-three-seconds


DALLAS -- Owner Mark Cuban made a point to complain about what he considers an NBA officiating trend after his Dallas Mavericks lost 98-95 to the Atlanta Hawks on Wednesday night.

Cuban expressed concern that referees are ignoring a league emphasis to call defensive three-second violations.

"I know it's not the league, so somewhere along the line, officials have chosen not to call defensive three seconds," Cuban said, addressing reporters in the middle of the locker room after the game, a rarity for him. "You guys can probably hear us counting, right? Five, six, seven. ... We've had games, multiple games already -- the last one we turned in, the league agreed that they missed nine defensive-three calls. And these aren't, 'OK, it's 3.1, it's 3.2 and it's wrong.' These are six, seven, eight and, in one case, nine seconds of standing in there. Again, you probably heard us screaming and yelling from the bench and counting to five and six.

"It's not a tough rule. I don't know what's happened, but it's changed the game," Cuban said. "We've even started to tell our guys, 'Just stand in the paint and don't move,' but some teams have figured it out before us. So it's just wrong."

Cuban spoke with a calm, measured tone during his five-minute postgame session with the media, which started when he walked into the middle of the locker room before players arrived and told reporters he had something he wanted to address.

"Again, I don't know who came up with the decision," he said. "The league just sent out a memo that defensive three was an emphasis, so I don't think it came from the league. Somewhere underneath them, the decision has been made, I don't know by who, not to call defensive three."

According to the website nbasavant.com, which tracks all violations, 133 defensive three-second violations have been called this season, which is slightly past the quarter point. There were 493 defensive three-second violations last season.

Dallas shot 36 percent from the floor in the loss to the Hawks, but Cuban said his complaints weren't specific to this loss.

"We were just missing shots," Cuban said. "This is not relevant to the game today. This is a bigger issue, right? Whether it impacts us or it impacts someone else, here I am saying that we're telling our guys just to camp in the paint, so it's not about this game or any other game. This is just one more example. Something happened.

"Something's going on, and I have no idea what it is. When I ask the league, they say, 'Oh, there's nothing going on. They're just missed.' Something's going on. Something's happening, and I don't think it's at the league level, but officials have chosen not to call defensive three seconds and, in some cases, offensive three seconds."

Cuban has been fined several times for complaining about officiating during his 16-season ownership tenure, paying well into seven figures for those infractions. However, he has chosen his spots more carefully in recent years.

Since Adam Silver has been commissioner, the only fine publicly announced for Cuban was for discussing free-agency moves in several interviews during the league's moratorium period in July.

"The rule is not a difficult rule," Cuban said. "Either you're in there and actively guarding, or you're not. It's not hard to see. It was crazy. ... So something's going on. It's not relevant specifically to the Mavs. It's relevant specifically to the league and how it's being officiated. And I have no idea, so as is my nature, if I can't get answers, I'll let other people help me get answers."

[GIF REACTION]

So defenses can essentially do WHATEVER they like

The only restriction is a rule that can be so easily averted (simply by stretching the arm out and stepping outside the key quickly), and it is barely if ever called.

Watch any Sacramento Kings game. Cousins paint camps indefinitely.

[Blue&Orange]

lol i don't know maybe the refs acknowledge the bullshit the game became with the way people want them to ref and are doing something about.

and yes lol at idiots still trying to bring up random exceptions that go against the norm to prove something that everyone that isn't braindead know it isn't the truth.


It's like saying traveling is allowed because sometimes refs allow players to travel, lol. Yes it's how dumb you sound gayreaction.


only a complete retard would say hand checking and paint camping is a feature in todays league.

[Nikola_]

http://i.imgur.com/bGtSQCx.png

how do u call this then

[GIF REACTION]

lol i don't know maybe the refs acknowledge the bullshit the game became with the way people want them to ref and are doing something about.

and yes lol at idiots still trying to bring up random exceptions that go against the norm to prove something that everyone that isn't braindead know it isn't the truth.


It's like saying traveling is allowed because sometimes refs allow players to travel, lol. Yes it's how dumb you sound gayreaction.


only a complete retard would say hand checking and paint camping is a feature in todays league.
Dude I've researched this topic more than anyone on this forum. Your argument is stupid and avoiding reality. I could say the exact same thing about Illegal defense and the 1979 rule on handchecking but we both know that isn't how it went down.

[UK2K]

I've been saying this for years now. Hand-checking is completely legal in the playoffs anyways. The rule is really a null-factor. They called it extremely tight for 2 years, along with 3 seconds in the key... But like any rule, the interpretation changes and they don't call it as much. Go watch any of the Celtics big three playoff runs, Golden state's last season, or Memphis. Loads of hand-checking.

Kobe vs the celtics in 2008 I believe was particularly hand-checking
No.

That's not hand checking.

Real hand checking is a true test of skill. You have to get by a defender, AND he can grab you. That separates men from boys.

MJ would score 80 a night in this league.

[GIF REACTION]

No.

That's not hand checking.

Real hand checking is a true test of skill. You have to get by a defender, AND he can grab you. That separates men from boys.

MJ would score 80 a night in this league.
I hope this is sarcasm Jimmy

[DMV2]

Yo GIF,

no Australian dates for Adele's 2016 world tour. how do you feel about that?

[GIF REACTION]

Not affect me

I admire her talent as a singer,and her financial success in the industry, but I rarely pay to go hear something I can rip off online for free. Clearly I'm not big on musical experiences, but that's just me.

[DMV2]

Not affect me

I admire her talent as a singer,and her financial success in the industry, but I rarely pay to go hear something I can rip off online for free. Clearly I'm not big on musical experiences, but that's just me.
So you made me argue with you for 2 freaking hours about Adele and Taylor for nothing when you clearly don't give a shit about it, only going by the sales?

This is worst than you flipping from being a Lib to a Cuckservative a couple of months ago.

[DMV2]

Merry Christmas anyway...even though I haven't agreed with you on anything in over 2 months.

[DMV2]

one more thing, gif...

im at 218-223 at 5'8"...bmi scale says im obese even though i dont look it.

what do you suggest i do to lose some weight and get lean? squats? strength training? eat healthier? what?

i think i should be like 175.

[DMV2]

my goal is to be ripped and lean like these aborigine men

http://www.science-facts.com/aborigines.jpg

you think i got what it takes?

[TheImmortal]

one more thing, gif...

im at 218-223 at 5'8"...bmi scale says im obese even though i dont look it.

what do you suggest i do to lose some weight and get lean? squats? strength training? eat healthier? what?

i think i should be like 175.
223 at 5ft 8.. you are fat as **** bro.

[DMV2]

thats why im asking gif for his advice but hes ignoring me.

[GIF REACTION]

The whole nine yards bro

All in, or not at all

[TheImmortal]

thats why im asking gif for his advice but hes ignoring me.
My advice: eat less. reduce your caloric intake. Say you ate a whole plate before.. eat 75% of that now. Drink more water and get more sleep. Working out is a bonus.

If your goal first and foremost is to lose weight.. it's all about your diet.

[GIF REACTION]

Pears bro

Rick Ross pears diet bro

[Da_Realist]

Well the other day i say Kirk Hinrich beat his defender because he can't touch him, and then slowly proceed to the paint and slowly make a layup. I loled. It's not just that you can't do nothing to perimeter players, it's also the constant emptiness of the paint.


Step 1 draft athletic players in hope that somehow they learn to play the game.
step 2 they can't
step 3 change the rules so that is easier to score.

Isiah came right out and said it. Usually media guys, even former players, aren't quite so candid. He called today's defense a joke!